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DURING HIS VISIT to Northern Ireland today, David Cameron announced that he will host the two-day G8 summit in Enniskillen next year.
The Prime Minister confirmed earlier reports that the group will meet over two days – the 17 and 18 June – in the Fermanagh town.
The main venue will be the luxury Lough Erne golf resort. It will accommodate the leaders of eight of the world’s richest countries, including US President Barack Obama, Russia’s Vladimir Putin and German Chancellor Angela Merkel.
The five-star hotel and golf course went into administration last year and has been up for sale since September with a £10 million price tag.
The last time the UK hosted the summit, it was held in Gleneagles in Scotland.
Northern Ireland’s residents have been doling out advice to Obama et al over Twitter since the announcement.
There’s been praise for Cameron’s taste:
Offers of accommodation:
Breakfast recommendations:
Those chancing their arm:
And of course, the inevitable moan:
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How many more of these “Defects” will be found over the next few years & with all these apartments going up so quickly how many more to come, I’m a firm believer that the builders &Ceo’s should be held 100%responsible.
@Colette Kearns: agree with you there is no accountability within the construction Sector
@Colette Kearns: 100% agree and the individuals who build apartments not up to code should not be able to hide behind being an employee or behind a limited company. Each should be individually charged with negligence and fined collectively for the cost of repairs even of that involves seizing their assets. There should be no place on the planet for individuals or companies involved in knowingly building faulty buildings putting peoples lives at risk or have their homes come tumbling down due to faulty materials or workmanship.
@Colette Kearns: them or cutting pensions to members of present and previous government for failing to regulate these type of legal scams by developers when it’s been happening for years now.
@Niall Ó Cofaigh: Exactly, the developers are known and someone name is on a document somewhere signing off on it!
@Colette Kearns: correct. I wouldn’t pay a single cent. Scandalous
@Colette Kearns: Homebound?
@Colette Kearns: I think most apartment blocks have no fire stopping in the risers and management companies are burying their head in the sand. They might want to shop around for the work to be carried out, we’d the same issues in our place and fixed most of it a few years ago. And it didn’t come to near the cost they’re quoting and our complex was larger.
@pkunzip doom2.zip: Good point, for some reason management companies seem to choose the highest quote. It’s as if it’s not their money to spend.
@Colette Kearns: You have to ask, if this is still going on. What, if any, improvements have been made to building regulations since all of these scandals began to appear. Ironically, it maybe a blessing that we are in the middle of a housing crisis. Given the damage some builders have caused all of us, what bills are new homeowners going to face in the future? If these unfortunate homeowners got together with the ‘ Pyrite and Mica families’ and others affected, refused to pay mortgages etc etc etc, until those responsible are held accountable and made pay instead of the Govt dipping into taxpayers monies. What hold does the construction industry have on the Govt to allow them to avoid accountability??? One way or the other, we will all end up paying for this, be it through increased bank, insurance, building charges/ levies.
Why are those that are responsible not being held to account?
@Steve O’Hara-Smith: Because the government don’t care. If they did, building regulations would be better and there would be legal accountability established without loopholes.
@Steve O’Hara-Smith: is it the luck of Irish?
https://harcourtdev.com/news/2017/11/22/the-luck-of-the-irish-pat-doherty
@Steve O’Hara-Smith: statute of limitations
@Steve O’Hara-Smith: because buildings ltd is defunct and operating under a different name
@Johnny Honest: in fraud cases the statute of limitations starts when the fraud is discovered.
@Kev: they are still around
@Tomo: building refs are fine, updated regukarly, implimentation of rdfs is the issue…. Even under new system they are finding ways if signing off when tgey dont comply . We need comoetent i depemdent inspections of all developments. Even buikdi g control dosent have adequate staff.
It’s typical Ireland, isn’t it? No accountability by the builders / developers / people who signed off on the building. Thats it, pile the expense on to the innocent home owner who bought in good faith. Unacceptable and people shouldn’t stand for it.
This is so wrong, who signed off on these buildings ? The government need to bring in a building levy, and proper oversight and most importantly some bloody accountability.
@keano: I’d be spending my €15k on a good Solicitor and sueing the Fire Officer who signed off on it (who incidentally would be a Council employee, which makes the local Council responsible).
After that, i’d spend my next €15k sueing the Solicitor who dealt with the sale of the property, for not ensuring the Fire Cert was compliant with the structure prior to purchase.
Its hilarious these people are even considering paying this money, they weren’t responsible and accountability now needs to be enforced.
@keano: builders were allowed sign off on them themselves back then. And according to our builder fire doors on the risers was sufficient to satisfy building code back then but now you need actual stopping on the floor between risers. How true that is I don’t know. Price they are being quoted seems excessive though, we’d the exact same issue in our development and the builder was in mama a few years back and we got them to cover the majority or the costs, it’s not 100% but it’s enough to satisfy insurance inspectors and it didn’t put the residents out of pocket at all.
Also this wouldn’t have only been found out now, the management agent would have been well aware of this but ignoring it, and have obviously had an insurance audit
@Frank Flanagan: you quite obviously have no idea what your talking about Frank and would waste a lot of your money. Learn how the system works before talk utter sh*te
@Frank Flanagan: You’ve obviously never been through the court system
@Frank Flanagan: the only thing hilarious is that you think someone could be held accountable in modern Ireland! Not how it works unfortunately.
Fianna Fail were in Government during the Celtic Tiger so they allowed this to happen. Cowboy Builders
You bought an apartment. Now your told to pay an extra €65k for works that should have been inclusive and within the regs ??
Fair enough. Counter sue contractor & developer. I wounld not take this lying down.
@blue exile: that builder would be long gone. A lot of those companies folded/owners retired etc
@blue exile: you’ll get nothing due to the statute of limitations. One could also say, it’s their own fault for not getting a building surveyor to check them before they bought them.
@Johnny Honest: surveying a completed building is pretty much useless. The surveying has to be done as the building is constructed.
@Sean: how do you think the defects were found ? They surveyed a completed building
@Johnny Honest: cop on you they had to do invasive inspection that would not have been allowed or required when buying. You sound like an apologist and a victim blaming tool
@johnny onion eye: Do they not do snag lists anymore? Or is that a dirty word.
@Johnny Honest: I doubt anyone bought an apartment without the assistance of a solicitor…its their job (the solicitors) to make sure what you are buying is legal and complies with all the relevant requirements, incl. Fire Cert.
I wouldnt pay a penny, i’d sue the Solicitor and the Fire Officer who signed off on it.
@johnny onion eye: you don’t have to do an invasive inspection to get into an attic on the top floor you tool.
@Frank Flanagan: Frank, with all due respect, you have no idea what your talking about.
@Johnny Honest: he doesn’t but he gave me a good laugh reading his comments
The people who bought these apartments bought them in good faith that everything was signed off and up to regulations. To try back charge these people for contractors negligence is criminal.
This is another reason why the government must take over the entire building industry. Build 120, 000 houses ASAP under a construction entity who contract the estates to building companies. Then sell to first time buyers at a profit of say 50K on top of cost price.. basically remove “Developers” completely.. construction inspected by the authority at random intervals. Look at the pyrite concrete farce
… again tax payer coufghs up.. why continue with this.. tax payer can actually make a profit..
And who signed off on this build??
@ᑕᑎíᑕᕼI: That’s where the accountability is. If the legislation was in place before these building were approved for fire and safety standards, etc. Then the entity that approved them should be held accountable, alongside the developers. If regulations were introduced afterwards then that’s a different call and some assistance from the government would be welcome.
How unfair is that? You buy a home in good faith, pay through the nose, 250 to 300k which includes 40 or 50 k V.A.T to the state. Yet the government wilfully remove the key post (clerk of works) that ensures the quality of build. Builders walk free and you are on the hook for the massive defects? We are going to hear so many more stories like this
@Kevin O’Hara: A bit like buying a car.
@d: a second hand car from a guy at the side of the road maybe. Otherwise you can bring a car back to the garage or manufacturer, for the apartments these developers fold the company once the development is sold on and set up a new entity for the next one. Liability is limited. Its a farce because the regulation wasn’t up to scratch.
@d: exactly would you buy a second hand car without getting a mechanic to check it ? Would anyone in their right mind buy a property without getting a surveyor/ engineer to check it. It beggars belief some of the nonsense in here.
@Kevin O’Hara: The companies responsible are often gone by now – Fianna Fail didn’t require any of them to have funds set aside (in escrow) for vital repairs either. It’s hugely wrong and the management companies are trying to gouge the inflated costs now out of the current owners who have to live there with any health issues caused by damp. To add insult to injury, they also have to pay property taxes on a place they don’t own and still have their mortgage to pay off.
Deals done in the Galway tent to push things through quickly then the developers throw up the apartments with blatant disregard for any standards and then poof
And these are only the ones you hear about who choose to go public. Scu. MMy builders and developers up and down the country.
This is what happens when you rely on self-certification. There is still no independent, external assessment of the actual buildings being constructed. The only thing that construction companies are required to do is submit their drawings for approval. In another decade or so, we’ll be hearing precisely the same stories arising from buildings constructed under fast-tracked planning legislation.
@Kevin Farrell: Very wrong Kevin. Check the 2014 Building Control Amendment regulations. There’s full accountability from an assigned certifier from 2014
Why can’t the cowboys who built these apartments be held responsible. There is something seriously wrong with society when these sham builders/developers get away with shoddy work. Was there no inspection regime during construction??
Will it take a Greenfeld like disaster for the government to realise they can not let the construction industry away with this? The home owners should not be held financially accountable for the cheap, shoddy & Penny pinching work of the builders.
The so called God’s of the construction industry (architect s) signed off all these projects so should be held responsible
@David Saunders: Should that mean the Chief Fire Officer?
@d: nope
@d: it’s the responsibility of the architect
Jebus fcuking wept. I’d say this is shocking, but nothing really surprises me any more when it comes to the shocking standards that passed for building regulatuons/ sign off back in the day.
This god forsaken country routinely (re)elect crooked politicians and then are surprised when planning, regulation, procurement etc. are corrupted. the key ‘principle’ in Ireland is all about gaming the system, be it in the HSE, the gardai, the public service or the private sector. integrity is a obviously a rare commodity in ireland.
That’s f@#¥ing wrong. Sure as hell the developer will conveniently “gone out of business”!
The surveyor for the buyer would have signed off for the purchase and a solicitor involved also. Owners need to go after the builder and anyone else involved. Paying a mortgage is bad enough without this bill. Surely they can take a civil case against those involved. I think we will be seeing more of this unfortunately.
@Maria Mcphillips: cannot take a civil case as the apartments are 15-20 years old. Statute of limitations is 6 years. They will either have to pay the money or the fire officer can evict everyone under the fire services act.
Sounds to me like they are just trying to squeeze out the ordinary guy that earned a few quid and was able to buy a place during the recession.
Don’t pay it. Get together and use any money owners can gather to sue. There’s strength in numbers.
Hindsight is wonderful but at the time of the Celtic Tiger virtually the whole country partied. Almost nobody asked questions and those that did were told to shut up. Properties were bought as investments, not as homes. Bought to be sold ASAP in a burgeoning market. Bought to make a profit. A Belgian economist said that the Irish economy was based on houses being bought and sold at ever inflated prices. Who is to blame? Developers? Regulators? Banks? Politicians? Borrowers trying to make a quick profit? Everybody was to blame and now we are suffering.
@sean o’dhubhghaill: “get on the ladder” “where does it go?” “don’t ask, it’s turned into an escalator and everyone else is on it, get on quick….” “but… Its going downward….”
@sean o’dhubhghaill: we were actively encouraged to party, banks were throwing money at people and the government were telling people if they weren’t on the property ladder they were worthless. The only difference is banks, developers, regulators and politicians walked away with a wedge in their pocket. Ordinary people got stuck with USC and property tax to pay for the failures of banks, developers, regulators and politicians. I don’t think everybody was to blaim, ordinary people assumed that if you paid a quarter of a million for an apartment it would be built to code. And just so we’re all clear, shortcuts we’re taken which put people’s lives in danger. Prosecution ought to be allowed.
@David Lawlor: Agreed, but do we even have class actions here to resort to? Borrowers aren’t going to be able to individually hire separate lawyers because that’s adding to their already punitive costs.
I don’t get it why can’t the bill be footed by companies that constructed properties that are not compliant. Why does the government need to throw taxpayer money at the problem without even attempting to extract all costs + damages from companies that failed to deliver what they promised and are still around?
I am aware that one of these companies claims that it’s not their problem, because all was certified. Which is idiotic position if allowed to stand unchallenged. They broke the law. They violated the contract. They should not be allowed to walk away scott-free just because somebody else certified their work either through negligence (by not doing their work) or malice (by conspiring to hide defects).
Their expectation is like an expectation of a thief to get away with it just because a local guard would say it’s not worth catching them. Wrong! Whoever was harmed by the thief is entitled to their day in court and full restitution regardless of what guard would or would not say or promise to a thief. Same should hold true for companies. The harm they caused is no smaller and no different from theft. They charged to deliver a certain level of service. It was discovered that they did not in fact deliver what was promised and it’s very likely they pocketed the difference. They are thieves. Just because somebody patted them on their collective backs at the time, they should not be allowed to get away with it. People harmed by their actions and their actions alone should have the rigt to full restitution for this theft.
As for people who were either negligent or complicit in all of this, they should be fully investigated, each and every one of them and prosecuted in line with their contribution to the damage done.
Now …
Is it really so hard or even impossible to prosecute thieves, grafters, cheats and fraudsters? Because what they’ve done is not just a violation of a contract. It’s putting public at risk. This is not a mistake that happened here or there. This is a pattern of behaviour, systematic and clear in it’s effect of putting public at risk. If that’s not an indictable offence in Ireland, what is!
@Ian Ó Broin: I assume the contract was signed by all parties involved.
Looking forward to hearing the support for these individuals from their donegal counterparts who claim this type of thing ( falling foul to poor building standards ) only happens in rural Ireland .
First they came for the mica homeowners and no one said anything, then they came for the fire defect homeowners and no one said anything….
The buck stops with the developer. They were supposed to follow all the building regs and clearly didn’t. The industry was self regulated back then and too many were all scratching each others back so regs were broken & ignored all in the name of speed & profit. Of course there was architects, engineers, fire officers all signing off on different stages of the build and there could be a list of reasons on how these issues were not picked up. The C.I.F. should be held accountable too if the developer was part of them. Under no circumstances should the apartment owners be liable.
@Derek Lyster: the buck stops as with every property purchase with the person that buys it. End of story. Their solicitors or banks would have advised them to get surveys done however, from experience many don’t due to the 700euro ‘high’ cost of a survey. But happy to pay hundreds of thousands for the property. Without it being checked. Why? Because the banks don’t require surveys- they are optional and for your own piece of mind.
@Johnny Honest: the buck stops with the developer. The onus is on them to build in accordance with the building regs and planning conditions. The people that certified the development have questions to answer too but back in the day it was generally self regulated so the developer saying the work was done was good enough.Any pre sale inspection carried out after the development is complete would only be a visual one and would only apply to an individual apartments. On top of that any competant engineer carrying out the inspection would make sure that all the relevant certs associated with the development actually exist. Any good pre sale report will mention that the report is a visual inspection only and applies only to the confines of the apartment.
@Derek Lyster: Read the article- the main defects relate to an absence of fire stopping material between apartments, on external walls and in the roof of the large apartment building.
It is understood owners were told that these issues account for around half of the overall costs while other work such as fire doors, evacuation routes and emergency signage account for the rest.
There are access hatches all over apartment buildings easily accessible to engineers or surveyors to check these defects. In fact these same hatches are probably how they found the insitu defects. Fire doors are right in front of you, and lack of emergency signage should be quite obvious to the trained eye. So again, if buyers don’t want to pay to get something checked before they buy, it really is their own fault.
@Johnny Honest: and not to mention, any surveyor worth their salt would check the fire doors and commons areas on there way up to the apartment anyway. And why mention planning when it’s a building control matter
@Johnny Honest: so the people buying the apartments are at fault for works that the developer didnt carry out? With regards to the common areas, do you think an engineer is going to be going around with a wedge checking the gaps in the fire doors to make sure they are all in order, setting off the fire alarm to ensure that any doors on hold open release? Check all the seals on the doors? That’s what fire certs are for. With regards to fire stopping and so on, an engineer who is hired to do a report on an apartment is there to do the report on the apartment not the building. The developer is at fault here and should be held accountable.
Professional indemnity of the developer should be paying for a large portion of the cost
@JMcB: Did they do away with Homebound? Sorry for my ignorance.
If the Builder is gone out of business, the Construction federation of Ireland should pay for it (CFI).
Same way if some muppet with no insurance crashes into you, you can sue the Motor Insurance Beauru of Ireland.
I wouldn’t be handing over a single cent.
@Frank Flanagan: Great but of logic from Frank. Do nothing. Then you have a property that can’t be sold, leased or lived in while still paying a mortgage. Absolute genius
The DCC building inspectors, the DFB fire safety officers and the ESB compliance teams are all to blame for letting this happen. The builders and developers knew they could get away with anything and then close the company so as not to be sued. This government worked hand in glove with them, so its time they owned up and paid up.
@Rosemary Flowers: I know a group of owners who went to Dublin City Council over this – their meeting was interrupted by a (faulty) fire alarm. The same company had built the DCC offices and is now out of business.
Where was the snag list? Surely the buyers had their engineer do a snag list and these defects would have turned up on it? Or maybe not.
When I started farming in the seventies, the rage was to reclaim and drain every square inch possible. At every stage of the work a delay occurred while the contractor waited for Charlie to come out from the Land Draining Division office of the Dept. of Agriculture in Clonmel in his Corsair motor car. Every level, amount of drainage gravel, etc.. etc., was monitored before the next move. Wonder how many botched jobs there were.!
These days, all that is covered by the professionals involved, all having indemnity insurance, for the provision of which they pile on the fees. This is where the book stops, not on the heads of the victims or the general taxpayer. Yet I never hear of a claim against these policies. Why not.?
This happened in UK too after the Grenfell disaster. Thousands of apartment owners in London and Manchester were asked to pay to put proper cladding around their homes. The government also refused to hold the developers / builders to account (who were mostly all Tory doners). The people refused to pay even though their home insurance sky rocketed, their mortgage providers started to get fidgety about their loans and their homes were unsellable. They protested for 2 years and eventually the government conceded defeat and will now but funding all the cladding repairs required. Not one single developer or builder were ever forced to contribute a penny.
Who in te Town Hall inspected the buildings and passed them as planning position stated
Michelle’s well written article incredibly doesn’t tell us the name of the construction company, it’s principals and directors… Surely easily obtainable for a journalist?
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