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Updated 1.20pm, Friday 30 November
ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT, the Dáil voted down legislation proposed by the United Left Alliance TD Clare Daly to provide for abortion in circumstances where there is a risk to the life of a pregnant woman.
The government had made clear its intentions to vote down the legislation as it currently considers bringing forward its own measures to respond to the expert group report on the European Court of Human Rights ruling in the A, B and C versus Ireland case two years ago.
A total of 128 TDs voted last night with 101 voting against the bill and 27 voting in favour of it, leaving 38 TDs who did not vote, all for a variety of reasons which TheJournal.ie has been attempting to establish today and here is what we’ve found out.
Firstly, the Ceann Comhairle Seán Barrett, abstained from the vote in keeping with the mandate of his office to observe strict impartiality and to not participate or vote in any debates except in the event of a tie.
Of the government TDs – that is any TD from Fine Gael and the Labour Party who has not lost the whip – who did not vote it has been confirmed that they had permission to miss the vote from the whip’s office.
In most situations government ministers who missed the vote will have a pair on the opposition benches who will not vote in order to off-set the ministerial absence. This is known as ‘pairing’.
It could not be confirmed for definite if pairing was the reason for the absence of some Fianna Fáil TDs including Micheál Martin, Seán Fleming, Willie O’Dea, and Robert Troy.
However, a Fianna Fáil spokesperson said: “Fianna Fáil did not support Deputy Daly’s Bill because the party is currently studying the report of the Expert Group and will give a considered view on the appropriate way forward when the party has discussed the report. In common with all other Private Members Motions in Dáil Éireann, a number of deputies were unable to attend the vote because of other commitments.”
As for the rest, Fine Gael TD and Jobs Minister Richard Bruton was at an engagement with IDA Ireland and a client company, the Department of Jobs said.
The two Ministers of State from that department were also otherwise engaged with Labour TD Seán Sherlock granted a pairing by the chief whip. “The Minister has said that for the record he would have voted with the Government had he been in the Dáil,” the Department of Jobs said.
Fine Gael TD and Minister for Small Business, John Perry, was at the InterTradeIreland All Island Seedcorn Awards at the Titanic museum in Belfast.
Fellow Fine Gael TD and Minister of State Fergus O’Dowd was attending a conferences in Limerick and Dublin. He told us that he was paired for the day but was “supporting fully” the position of the government on the issue.
Fine Gael TD Catherine Byrne has been in hospital this week where she underwent surgery and she is currently recuperating for the next two weeks.
Her fellow Fine Gael TD and Junior Minister Ciarán Cannon is on an education mission to India from which he returns later this week.
Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Labour TD Joe Costello was speaking at an Irish Aid event to mark World Aids Day at the University of Limerick and was paired a spokesperson said.
Labour TD Anne Ferris is currently recovering from recent surgery and has not been in the Dáil for the past few weeks.
Fine Gael TD and party chairman Charlie Flanagan was at a “long-standing meeting” in his capacity as party chairman but said that he would have voted against the proposed legislation in anticipation of the government’s decision on introducing its own measures before the end of the year.
Independent TD Shane Ross was with his wife who had just left hospital following recent surgery.
Labour TD Dominic Hannigan was doing an interview with TV3 that was pre-recorded for a future edition of Midweek.
Fine Gael TD and Environment Minister Phil Hogan was on “official business” as was his fellow minister at the Department of Environment and Labour TD Jan O’Sullivan, the Department said.
Fine Gael TDs Tom Hayes and John O’Mahoney were on “private, government business” at the British Embassy in Dublin according to Hayes with Labour TD Colm Keaveney also joining them.
Taoiseach and Fine Gael TD Enda Kenny was not in the Dáil last night and does not normally vote on Private Members’ business, instead attending to government business on a Wednesday evening.
Only in cases where there is a no confidence motion might the Taoiseach vote on such matters.
Minister of State for European Affairs and Fine Gael TD Lucinda Creighton was attending an event with the Taoiseach, a spokesperson said.
Labour TD Michael McCarthy is in Mozambique with the Public Accounts Committee this week where he is joined by Fianna Fáil TD and PAC chairman John McGuinness and Fine Gael TD John Deasy.
Independent TD Finian McGrath was unable to vote having been ejected from the Dáil by the Ceann Comhairle during Leaders’ Questions yesterday.
McGrath said that he was told by the Ceann Comhairle that he was suspended for one-day, meaning he could not participate in last night’s debate. But McGrath said that his position on the X Case is that he favours legislation and regulations.
Fine Gael TD Olivia Mitchell said she was attending a constituency event she had committed to, planting a tree at the Bloomfield Nursing Home in Rathfarnham which was celebrating its 200th anniversary.
Mitchell said she was standing in for junior minister Kathleen Lynch who did vote in the Dáil last night and was listed to attend the event. Mitchell said she has already spoken about her position on the issue and favours legislation and regulations to deal with the X Case.
Denis Naughten, who lost the Fine Gael whip last year, had a family bereavement and could not attend the vote.
Former housing minister and Labour TD Willie Penrose – who lost the party whip last year – said he was attending a funeral but said: “I don’t bother about private members any how. I haven’t voted in any private members’ bill for the last six or eight months. I don’t feel that I have to.”
He added that he would not be rushed into making up his mind about any abortion legislation and says he will come to an “informed decision” when he has fully digested the report of the expert group.
Education Minister and Labour TD Ruairí Quinn was “otherwise engaged”, a spokesperson said adding that Quinn had made his position on the issue clear and would have voted with the government had he been there.
Sinn Féin TD Peadar Tóibín was not in attendance despite the party imposing the whip on the motion which required TDs to vote in favour of it. It also meant that all TDs were expected to be in attendance for the vote.
Tóibín could not be reached for comment and his whereabouts last night are not known. A Sinn Féin spokesperson said that this would be “something the party will have to deal with” as he wasn’t on any other party business.
Independent TD Tom Fleming told TheJournal.ie on Friday that he was present in the Dáil for the debate on Wednesday and spoke but that he abstained on the vote.
He said: “I did not vote on the issue on this occasion but I will when it comes back in, when eventually there is a legislative proposal put forward by government subsequent to discussions with the Attorney General’s office and we get a comprehensive proposal.”
At the time of publication, independent deputy Noel Grealish did not return a request for comment.
TheJournal.ie could not confirm the reasons for the absence of Public Expenditure and Reform Minister Brendan Howlin at the time of publication.
Labour TD Derek Nolan could not be reached for comment and neither could Fine Gael TDs Tom Barry and Pat Breen.
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Might as well just criminalise depression while you’re at it too.
@Jamie McCormack: You don’t think talking depressed people into committing suicide is wrong?
@Boutros Boutros-Ghali: Of course it is, I hadn’t made that connection though. Fair point.
@Jamie McCormack: You should try thinking, it’s great.
@Boutros Boutros-Ghali: easy to do when your not suffering from depression!
@Ashling Visser Bishop: All the more reason to criminalise those who would try to talk depressed people into committing suicide.
@Jamie McCormack: There’s quite big difference between tragically succumbing to your own depression, and taking somebody else, somebosy who is likely also very vulnerable, with yoym
How on earth is making a suicide pact a criminal offence going to help stop people from doing it?? If they genuinely want to prevent people from committing suicide then they need to understand what’s driving people to it in the first place and then provide support. FFS what they gonna do follow you to the other side with a court summons?!
@Alison O’Connor: I agree, it’s a stupid approach. What is life without quality of life? Maybe they have terrible palliative care or something? Loneliness if a wife or husband dies, maybe? Or it might be poverty that drives some to it? Yes, I’m certain they could do more for their citizens if they listened to them. But who the heck is going to confide in their nurses if they’re considering what’s been turned into a criminal act?
@Alison O’Connor: it’s cheaper than investing in mental health. Korea is an even lore neo liberal kip than Ireland is and culturaly they tend not to care about anyone not “economically viable”.
S Korean society is basically based on slave labour. There is so much pressure on young men in particular to study and become a “salary man”. They only have one day off a week and during the week it is from 6am to often 9pm. At the same time pretty young women are worshiped and envied by both men and women, at the same time women do not have military conscription. Not so pretty women take out loans for plastic surgery and then wait for a rich man to marry them. It is a pretty messed up place.
You seem to have everything understood about Korea ? Koreans have 2 days off…The pressure it high to study though, that’s clear, but they work from 9am to 6, sometimes later
@Séamus McCallion: ‘A pretty messed up place’ is a sweeping generalisation for a country of over 50 million. Korean society has its problems like most developed countries, a high suicide rate the one that grabs all the headlines, but it’s a wonderful country of wonderful hospital people. I lived there, and with Koreans, for almost a decade and know what I’m talking about. You clearly do not, however.
@davidMbyrne.com: ‘hospitable people’ even!
@Séamus McCallion: North korea is a lot better dispite all the media attacks.
He’s typing this from his mommy’s spare room. I live in Busan, I’m curious where he gets his made up thoughts on Korean society from. Maybe he was left broken hearted by a pretty Korean girl ?
Made up thoughts? No. I am friends with a Korean couple who tell it as it is.
@Stephen Kennedy: The west through the eyes of north korea. Youtube.
You should take a trip out of Ireland sometime to open your mind for yourself. It seems you don’t actually know anything about Korea.
A Korean couple who left Korea and are in Ireland, talking negative about the place :o Sounds like me talking about Ireland after a few pints
@davidMbyrne.com: good man Dave but left you forget everyone here knows everything better and our society is always correct
@davidMbyrne.com: your experience of a section korean life doesn’t make u an expert..a little knowledge and all that.
@Stephen Kennedy: Actually they live in Seoul right now. I agree there are many great things about Korea but for the average person life is very tough with no safety net whatsoever.
Sure it’s been an offense, here (actually wonder if it still is) that’s why we say such & such “committed” suicide, because was (or is) a offense.
@Censorship is modern day book burning:
So you would say John/Mary “committed” suicide instead of “is” (or “are”) suicide?
Is English your first language??
@Joe Phillips: Is it yours?
@Boutros Boutros-Ghali: evidently not
I’m living in Seoul at the moment. Suicide is a big problem as they don’t support those who suffer with depression! There are no / very few groups or charities that help with depression or suicide. Also, they have little to no support for the elderly – hence the high rate in that age group. Ireland is so far ahead in their acceptance of the illness and in trying to help those in need.
Suicide pacts are evil things and this may help the rate to fall but they really need to focus on the causes!!!!!
Correct, but in Korea you can be operated on within the first visit of GP, in Ireland you wait 4 years. Old age is a big problem here tho..I do agree
@Stephen Kennedy: Some aspects of life in South Korea are very good – I agree ! but it is such a superficial society! anything that may be seen as a weakness is bad! so sad
Night out in Itaewon sorts that out
@Stephen Kennedy: hahhah – that’s where I live :)
I’m dying to see how that’ll work out.
So why a picture of a shopping street in Seoul. You wouldn’t head an article on irish suicide with a tourist shot of Grafton Street…
Punishable by death…..
I had heard that South Korea’s setting out to boost their life expectancy rates to better than North America’s. Well, there goes South Park!
@Fiona Fitzgerald: all they have to do is wait. Longevity is in decline in the USA. 78 at the moment and dropping
Anyone caught organizing these will get the death penalty
punishment will be the death penalty
Theres a reason we work 9-5 because because 9-6 might kill a niga .
Dave chappelle
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