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THE NECESSITY TO separate church and state was seen with the interference of the Catholic Church during all phases of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill.
The Catholic Church’s opinion on women’s reproductive health is a valid one, of course, and it is entitled to broadcast this stance publicly. However, its attempt to manipulate the political process, pressure TDs and subvert public opinion was highly anti-democratic.
No other democracy would accept the moral monopolisation by one religious order over the will of the people. The French term for secularism- laïcité – derived from ‘laity’, explicitly promotes the wishes of the non-clergy within a society, above that of the clergy. Only recently in Ireland, a member of the clergy attempted to undermine both Irish law the laity. Father Kevin Doran’s comments, pertaining to institutional objection (though the board of the Mater Misercordiae University Hospital have yet to formally comment), have highlighted the lack of secularisation within Irish society, and specifically healthcare.
Like the recent debate about patronage of our schools, we now need a debate on the patronage of our public voluntary healthcare facilities.
The ethical principles to which doctors adhere are governed by the Irish Medical Council’s (IMC) Guide to Professional Conduct and Ethics. As a GP, I may hold a personal, moral belief, but I can never allow this to influence a patient’s care. If a doctor’s religious belief prevents him/her from providing safe and accessible treatment for a patient, that doctor would be guilty of professional misconduct. The IMC is clear on the position of conscientious objection: “As a doctor, you must not allow your personal moral standards to influence your treatment of patients”.
For example, it is permissible for a GP not to prescribe the morning after pill to a woman on account of religious reasons, but the doctor must refer her expediently to an alternative GP in the locality, without compromising that patient’s care. The IMC state: “Conscientious objection does not absolve you from responsibility to a patient in emergency circumstances”. Conscientious objection can neither contravene the law of the land, nor be applied in an emergency situation when a woman’s life is in imminent threat.
If we do not allow the moral position of an individual doctor to adversely affect a patient’s care, an institutional moral position, reflected by Catholic health policy, certainly cannot. A woman cannot be denied a life-saving, emergency treatment because of the religious belief held by a board-member of a publicly-funded hospital.
This was articulated by Dr Peter Boylan who asked anyone who might agree with Father Doran’s comments if they were “happy to stand by and watch a woman die and be denied life-saving treatment because it goes against their personal beliefs which are not shared by the doctors looking after the woman or by the woman herself or by her family?”
Society pays for its public health services through taxation and the ethos of any institution should reflect the secular, multi-denominational ethos of the society to which it serves. I am a pro-choice doctor. I believe all women should be able to choose to access safe and legal abortion services within the state. Like religious belief, I fully accept the opinion of anyone who disagrees with women being able to access abortion services. But that is not what this Bill is about. When a woman’s life is in danger, her life should be saved- institutional objection is simply medical malpractice.
There are examples of Catholic institutions providing good health and social care in the state. Yet there are many failures. Aside for the secular argument, it is these failures of Catholic health policy that render the Church unqualified to influence training, teaching, ethics, appointments and clinical governance.
Catholic health policy has not proved a model for compassionate or equitable care in Ireland, or indeed anywhere in the world. It has proved particularly caustic to the health of Irish women. This is symbolised most acutely by the 1983 ‘pro-life’ 8th Amendment, which has led to cases like Savita Halappanavar and X. It has caused umpteen crisis pregnancies as a result of their failure to promote hormonal contraception as a means of family planning, ironically increasing abortion rates.
Catholic social policy has been responsible for the Magdalene laundries and the promulgation of institutional childhood sexual abuse. Catholic social policy was responsible for abusive marriages staying together. It has promoted massive psychological trauma for LGBT adolescents, as they have been afraid to come out in hostile Catholic school environments. Worldwide, it has helped the spread of sexually transmitted diseases due to the stigma around barrier contraception.
Ireland does not need Catholicism influencing its health policies – we need secular, democratic processes based upon medical advice.
Religious influence on healthcare is still present, only in 1997 a vasectomy clinic in Letterkenny General Hospital was picketed by pro-life campaigners. As Tom Inglis stated; “the ownership and control of hospitals and the representation of Catholic religious on the boards of public hospitals has meant the Church has been able to exert considerable influence on the way medicine is practised”.
Half of our public ‘voluntary hospitals’ are owned and governed by religious orders. I have worked in two of these, the Mater and St Vincent’s University Hospitals, which claim to have a ‘religious ethos’. I remember a cancer patient in one of these hospitals being refused a clinical-trial drug, as she would have to commence hormonal contraception. That is not an ethos I wish to be associated with.
Secular health policy must replace Catholic health policy. Minister Reilly should follow Minister Quinn’s admirable efforts in the education sphere, and address the patronage of Irish hospitals, so their ethos reflects the society to which they serve.
This article has been amended to remove an erroneous statement that the Pro-Life Campaign took part in a picket at LetterKenny Hospital in 1997. The Pro-Life Campaign is a non-denominational organisation .
Dr Mark Murphy is a GP living in Sligo. He is a member of Doctors for Choice.
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Is this the end of the world or a couple of years of transition?
#stiffupperlip
What’s the story with Eurovision now?
Mark
Many believe and I think correctly markets are overvalued, this is a correction that is actually needed. It is what happens when things settle down, Markets always over react in the short run and smooth out over time, hopefully it does not lead to another bust I dont think it will over the longer period. The markets got their predictions horribly wrong and have to adjust, this is what we are seeing now, as for sterling it could take a couple of years to get back to yesterdays levels, like all markets predicting the future is impossible as you can see from the last week.
Joe
Britain my be kicked out.
But we will still have Australia and Israel.
Knee jerk reaction…
Definitely a few years of stabilising not the end of the world…. the real question is will it be better overall?
Not one grain of rice will be lost in this speculative convulsion of the parasitic finance sector. What is being lost in this Fx and stock market shock is the capitalist elite’s claim on the resources of society as they watch the digits disappear in their inflated bank accounts.
At a macro/government level, there can always be as much (or as little) money circulating in the economy as there needs to be to create full employment and control inflation. Governments (except the ones in the monetary trap of the euro) spend their own currency into existence at will and then tax it back out of circulation in a continuous flow. The only limitation is the availability of real resources (e.g. energy, labour etc) and there can never be a shortage of a fiat floating currency such as sterling.
In contrast to instant availability of money, the real wealth of goods and services that we all depend on is created by the labour and skill of the working class from the raw material of the planet. Everything from the food in our bellies to the clothes on our backs right up to the most sophisticated technology is made by the workers.
Money is a claim on that real wealth produced by the working class and this is where money derives it’s power. The capitalist system peddles the illusion that there is a shortage of money (billions wiped from the British economy, balance the books, reduce the deficit, live within your means etc) in order to oppress and control the working class who are the real creators of wealth. Fundamentally, money is just a tool to measure and allocate the resources which the working class has produced.
well at least England won’t be in the Euros in 2020
Wally, what is most irritating about your constant BS about Brexit is that it is pure opportunism.
You can even make a statement on the practical implication for the working class outside of London – it’s all ideological drivel.
The fact is that Brexit was pushed by the right and far right and the people most emboldened by the vote across Europe.
You only need to look at the statements this morning by the Northern League, Front National, Wilders to show that your group has failed to make any clear position on the future of Europe.
It will certainly affect Irish trade with the UK if trading through Sterling. Irish companies will suffer the conseuences.
Jesus you talk some shite, most of which I ignore.
As an employer of ‘workers’ who make actual ‘stuff’, the vast majority of which goes to the UK, how do I explain how my product now 6% more expensive to the customer in the UK since 10:00pm last night is doing anything except damage to ‘real jobs’, here ?
Unlike you Wally, I’m writing from a position of knowledge – you are Wa(ff)lying
i like the way you put the word workers in inverted comma;s. i take from that you are not happy with your employee’s or see them as unproductive?
Stopit,
I’ll let a great British socialist Wally Kennedy explain it to you:
“This was a vote against the Establishment and austerity.
The political and Financial elites are ‘shocked’ at the result of the referendum. They would be of course – they are so disconnected from the daily struggles of the people; they just don’t get it.
Despite the vicious campaigns to present and portray the working class as lumpen bigoted racists (a tiny number are) – all the fear-mongering whipped-up in the media has not had the desired effect of frightening them into submission.
The threats of impending doom had little or no effect on those who have nothing to lose – including the growing numbers of the middle class who have been driven into the ranks of the workers – and who have had enough of becoming even more insecure and impoverished, while the rich elites got even richer, greedier, more arrogant, unaccountable and detached.
People have had enough of insecurity, grinding austerity, poverty, cutbacks and lack of public services. They are fed up of debt, of high rents, poor housing, low-pay and zero-hour contracts. (Sometimes those fears and anger have been expressed in backward terms and using racist language).
They are fed up of being judged and vilified by those who live in relative comfort and who look down their noses and sneer with such contempt. For them hardship is another planet.
They are fed up of being used as voting fodder by a Labour Party, who for decades have turned their back on basic Labour values of common ownership, accountability and community.
The process was encapsulated by Blair’s arrogant response when asked about his abandonment of his working class base support – “Who else are they going to vote for?”.
Well in May 2015 … 4 million voted for UKIP – but 23.3 million did not vote for anyone … a figure greater than the Tory and Labour vote combined.
I urge every worker to join a Trade Union and organise and hope that Jeremy Corbyn will now correct his mistaken strategy on the referendum and campaign and demand a General Election.
They must stand on a clear and bold anti-austerity, democratic Public ownership and pro-working class platform.
I believe that this process will be repeated right across Europe.
There are dangers if we don’t act decisively – but what a landslide there could be.
Up the workers – organise everywhere for socialism.”
John,
From your elevated position of knowledge, can you point to anything incorrect in what I’ve explained about the macro economy above?
John,
Do you think it’s socialists who are engaging in the Fx currency speculation which has made your product 6% more expensive? Or would that be the orgy of parasitic greed that is the capitalist finance sector?
wally, this is your problem.
you haven’t actually dealt with my point that the brexit was championed by the right and far right and the implications of this across Europe.
Without a clear or coherent plan (not copy and pasting wishful thinking) all you are doing is strengthening the Farage, Johnson and their ilk.
Stopit
Along with the extreme right wing, add in the right wing of the Tory party I suppose they are more or less the same, apparently the British Communist party were also for leave.
Then again Communism and fascists have always had alot in common, they are undemocratic, one party states with a dictator who oppress their population. Stalin and Hitler had so much in common, Nazism was offically described as national socialism
For me we will not know the real outcome of this vote for a while, however the one reason that really makes me worry about Britain as we woke up this morning is the leavers of power are in the hands of Farage, and especially Johnson and Grove and that is a major worry.
Stopit,
The E.U. is viciously anti working class and anti democratic as evidenced in their crushing of the Greek people. And so the E.U has only itself to blame for the rise of the far right.
Capitalism is a system which is based on the exploitation of the majority working class in order to enrich the minority capitalist class. This model results in a chasm of inequality with abject poverty on one side and obscene wealth on the other. Our politics, media and education systems are designed to obscure this harsh reality while our governments fully support this exploitative socioeconomic system.
This results in large numbers of people living in varying degrees of poverty and desperation and not understanding fully why that is the case. This gap in understanding is what the right wing populists (e.g. UKIP and Trump) and quasi fascists (e.g. Britain First) exploit to drag themselves to power. They too lie to the working class and blame easy scapegoats like immigrants or Muslims for the dire straits in which the majority working class finds itself. This is the road to oppression, violence and war.
We have the resources to provide everyone with a decent home, healthcare, education and a job. It is an ideological choice not to do so. The options facing humanity are socialism or barbarism.
The emergence of the far right across Europe is directly attributable to the pro capital, anti working class ideology of the E.U itself .
Wally
Some capitalists may have lost some digits on their bank accounts but the entire pension saving population has also seen there pension fund take a huge hit.
Nil Point
Wally
If you think the EU exploit the working class it will be nothing compared to the extreme right of the Tory who took the leavers of power in the wake of last nights vote
Oh, you’re worried about peoples’ pensions now Nick? I presume you campaigned vigorously then when the government raised the qualifying age for the state pension to 68 in order to help cover the odious bankers debts?
Ktsiwot,
And it will be up to the British working class to organised and fight to prevent the Tory and UKIP parasites doing so. Nothing will ever be handed to the working class by capital. We will have to fight for every scrap but together we are more powerful than they.
Wally
Surprise surprise you won’t answer a question. I did not campaign in relation to pension age increasing. I agree with the increase in age. As we are now living longer it makes total sense.
Nick,
Q.E.D. You have no interest in the retirement provisions of ordinary people.
And the increased retirement age doesn’t make sense for the majority working class. It makes perfect sense for capital though to help pay for their speculative debts by loading them on the back of the working class.
We have a chronic crisis of unemployment and underemployment but yet we’re forcing people to work for an extra 3 years. People should be retiring earlier and working shorter hours to free up more jobs but of course this would impact on the profiteering of capital so you’re opposed to it.
? You know, the UK exports clothing and textiles….which they buy materials from outside of the UK….so the demand will fall and Britain will loose money
Wally do you support Brexit and would you want Ireland to follow suit? Do you also support the blatant lies (£350m extra per week) being told to scare people into a vote? Yes or no answers please and actually answer the question without the copy and paste function
Wally, this is an excellent commentary on the recent events. It’s a position that has not received enough consideration.
Anto,
This isn’t a Q&A session and you don’t get to set the agenda. Also if you can’t figure out that I support Brexit from my comments above then I’m guessing that my answers would be beyond you anyway.
thats true what you wrote,Ireland is in trouble now with trade to Britain and the north with passports i hear
So not answering questions you’re asked, and resorting to insults. That sums you up perfectly. Well done. That comment should be a pinned post on the top of The Journal
Anto,
Why do you believe Ireland should remain part of an E.U. which coerced us into a Troika bailout (stitch up) under threat of collapsing our financial system as per the Trichet letters and to ensure every red cent of bank bondholder debt was paid by the Irish people?
The same E.U. who are currently deliberately ransacking the Greek economy and crushing the living standards of millions of ordinary people as a political lesson to those who would dare challenge them.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/sep/04/eurozone-six-day-week-greece
These are just a couple of examples of the anti-democratic and anti working class nature of the E.U. And you want us to remain part of such a union?
So you’ve answered the first part (if you glaze over the copy and paste stuff) in wanting Ireland to leave the EU. Now the second question regarding the Leave campaigns tactics of blatantly lying to the voters? Not even half truths in there. Would you do the same? Or do you condone such actions? It’s clear you represent AAA so I want to know your stance.
Wally, if you support the UK in leaving the EU can you explain how exactly things will proceed now? It seems that the leave campaign’s strategy went as far as getting a leave vote and no further. Anyone who has followed this all day can hear it. When asked “what next?” leave politicians don’t seem to know what to say except something akin to “well now we negotiate a deal for free trade”. The follow-up question usually presses for more detail. The answer is never based on even one specific part of the plan and usually exposes that they just haven’t a clue. The whole thing is like a sketch of Boris Johnson throwing a dice, it ending up on its side and wondering how much he bet and what his prize is.
Newry here we come
Be ready to pay Duty at the border .
There’s more than one route over the border.
The pound is currently more expensive than it was at the start of April. This decision is as bad for the Euro as it is for the pound. Save your petrol money and don’t bother with the trip to Newry.
I know a number of people who live south of the border and work in the north. They’re set to lose out big time.
Today is Independence day and hopefully is the beginning of the end of the dictatorship that the EU has become.In 2004 Ireland became a dumping ground for Eastern European Criminals,and this remains the situation today.We must now take back control of our borders.
With what? Our tiny navy? The Dublin protocol will be out the window. Welcome hoards of middle eastern men and Africans that we can’t send away
Independence Day was an apocalyptic film if I recall it properly. Doomsday anyone?
whats wrong with people that aren’t from Ireland?
John your talking complete crap.
Amazon.co.uk might crash later!
This will be a great week to buy stuff on Amazon.co.uk.
A plummeting pound means goods priced in sterling are much cheaper.
Sterling’s difficulty is Ireland’s opportunity.
UK exports will be booming
Tourism too
Amazon giving exchange rate of £=€1.28 so not great really, I was gonna do an online shopping blitz but now may not bother.
Don’t use their conversation rate. Keep your figures in stg and calculate it separately.
One things for sure, Scotland and Northern Ireland voted Remain, so today is the beginning of the end of the United Kingdom.
And Wales will jump ship too now that the EU money is flowing in. England will have to survive alone.
Oh what about the bankers! Won’t anyone think of the bankers!? Boo hoo
If you have a pension or any investments, a crash affects you.
The EU went too far and this is the result. The first rule of any country is securing its border and the EU have turned sovereign countries into mere regional states.
Brilliant result – Project Fear crushed.
Now we can start a serious conversation about how long Ireland should stay in the imploding “Superstate” and the catastrophic euro.
It looks pretty catastrophic for the pound and you think it wouldn’t be much worse for the punt ? What age are you, do you remember the huge pressure the punt was under before the €
Yeah, you wish.
@Pete, the pound has collapsed, as predicted when leave would win and you’re actually happy about that? You have no understanding of economics
The pound has not collapsed,the headline is hyperbolic. There are always stark drops /increases in currency values in the lead up / immediate aftermath of events such as this. The EU is barely 20 years old and people are acting like it’s been around for centuries. Life goes on.
Led by Boris Johnson and UKIP. Oh dear!
It hasn’t collapsed! Yesterday £100 was gonna cost me €134 …….this morning it will cost me €130 ….big deal !!!
Currencies fluctuate all the time ….this is a normal predictable tremor at the Brexit news …it will stabilise again . Not worth going on a spree on Amazon for 4c in the £1 !!!
Currently at €123 for £100 if the exit polls had got it right the drop would have been more drastic, sterling rallied to 1.4 late last night with thebthoughtvremain would leave so .17 is a huge swing or nearly 14 percentage points!!!
@Marina. Big deal is way ahead. Probably in 5-10 years and it will be widely depend not on British politicians but on EU and US. If EU will take a sharp stance on finance for example or some headquarters of internationals based in UK. If EU and US will be nice, then may be Britain will still the same.
@Maria. I beg you a pardon.
the Icelandic Krona isn’t doing so bad Joe?
Bad news for Kenny. He doesn’t have the balls to call a vote for Ireland. God forbid, sur he’d actually have to run a country then!
Yeah, because we want to copy the Brits. Leaving seems to be working out really well for them already. Heck, they haven’t even left yet and their currency is worth peanuts.
The EU is a broken institution, it’s destroyed many lives, forcing austerity on the ordinary to pay the debts of the capitalist elites in Europe. I’d rather an Irish man running ireland than having pathetic Kenny taking orders from Merkel.
Or irish woman.
Their exports have now become cheaper as a result of the pound dropping. The fear factor has already been counted in. Give it a week a few days and it will rally once realisation sets in that the world as we know it hasn’t ended.
I think I’d happily take Merkel than full autonomy from the various guises of DOB’s puppets.
Adrian, ah sure it’s totally EUs fault that Irish bought 2 bed appartments for 400,000eu, lashed out 600-700k for 3-4bed houses or bought houses in the middle of fekin nowhere and are now stuck with something they will never be able to sell to get their money back.
Are we next?
No
Oh my goodness, what a shock. :|
And there was me looking for a discount code on some UK site last night, cheers Brexit!
..yeah, item I was watching on amazon.co.uk now €20 this morning !!
Couldn’t have pasted an article that had Eur vs Stg too?
The pound is already recovering.
Now up to $1.7 and 1.25 euros/£, from 1.23/£.
a money expert on Newstalk this morning said that the pound is likely to appreciate in coming months as the UK economy can be clearly defined, compared with the euro which is a confusing mess due to several weak economies straddled with vast debts.
The initial reaction is always going to be negative. A strong euro vs pound will probably boost foreign investment and may give the economy a little boost in the short. Bad news for Europe though as a lot of money may be spent in Britain due to the value. It wasn’t that long ago shops on the border were offering 1-1 to entice people up from the south. The future is uncertain and we may see the euro zone enter another small recession. I don’t think the UK will though.
I reckon this is the short sharp shock and then they’ll just get on with it. Never underestimate the pragmatism of politicians.
Get some popcorn and watch how “working class” which forgot how to work since wide social help by the state was introduced will work at the reborn British steel industry and how Nigel Farage, former commodity broker will lead UK and poor into the bright future. I think London as a financial centre will first to go or weaken. Which is good for Ireland as it might get some jobs here. Scotland definitely will hold a second referendum and vote yes. The most prominent gas and oil fields will go together with Scotland and so on.
Scotland will owe Billions to England so I suspect the oilfield will go nowhere.
If this result is respected and implemented, a large part of my faith in democracy will be restored.
But will it?
Premier league is F€uked
I really fear that this could trigger a big worldwide recession. That could have devastating consequences for Ireland in the short term. Hopefully we could take advantage in the longer term with more FDI due to us remaining in the EU.
I see they got to you too.
Go follow Boris and UKIP then Tariq
I’ve no idea what you’re talking about Paul. You seem upset about the result though,maybe talk to someone about your feelings on it? Preferably in person and not online.
Tariq Nigel Farrage would welcome you with open arms! NOT.
I’m second generation English Pronsias,nice casual racism there though,are you saying I’m a refugee from Syria or Iraq just because of my name?
And out comes the “race card” and “islamophobia” BS.
In fairness Tariq ibn Ziyad is not exactly “John Smith”
Its fair enough to say that Nigel Farage would make the same assumption which is his point.
I am firmly in the remain camp, but accusing people of racism for a comment like that is plain idiocy
They’ve now dropped from 5th to 6th biggest economy and India are breathing down their neck to drop them to 7th.
That’s going to help with worldwide influence…
Slab and his mates will be smiling
No point in having any Stirling under the mattress for a rainy day
Donegal was always marginalised and forgotten now its just gone back to the stone-age as it must transit a non-EU state just to move its freight too and from Dublin….
You do know you can drive from Sligo to Letterkenny without entering the North right?
What is all the fuss about.. Everything is running as normal here in London this morning.. £ to € was 1.21 at 6am now it 1.25! Pretty much the rate this past 6 months..
Sure……….. of course the markets did respond negatively. Never challenge a dictatorship.
“Let’s make an example of them ” I expect outside forces to ruin the british economy so the shining knight on a white horse the IMF can fix it all with T&C’s , and that’s the one without Tom Cruise.
Watch all the cheap UK cars now flooding into Ireland…. Car values here will collapse #brexit
I want to change a couple of grand to Sterling. Is today the best day to do it. Heading on holiday in ten days.
There will likely be a further run on Sterling this evening when the Eastern markets re-open. Should probably stabilise after that though, so I’d wait a day or two I think.
And do you know where all those Billions will end up? In the offshore bank accounts of the super rich, who are quietly buying sterling while the media hype is in full swing. When normal service is resumed, and the world hasnt ended, the value of sterling will recover and the super rich will profit as always.
the punt was put under pressure as to assure we took the euro!
How can england leave europe can anyone explain
Geographical that will still be in Europe, economically they are leaving the EU.
The sky is falling said Chicken Licken
Put in simple terms, as the pound looses value then exports become cheaper, this means more being sold which in turn means more profits and more jobs. This means then more tax being collected and this then means the U.K. Government doesn’t need to borrow money internationally then and when the government isn’t borrowing money then they can get rid of austerity but then the IMF would have less control over what the government does then I suppose???
What goes down must come up.
Statue to Enoch Powell in London when?
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