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A NEW SURVEY on students’ attitudes towards religion shows that 66 per cent of those surveyed don’t believe that religion makes the world a better place.
It also shows a liberal attitude towards abortion and gives an insight into the changing face of religion in Irish society.
According to the student-focused survey conducted by the Student Marketing Network, 37.5 per cent of students state that they believe in God.
When it comes to abortion, 83.5 per cent believe abortion should be allowed in Ireland.
The survey took in 1,146 third level students across the country and showed that while less than 60 per cent of respondents considered themselves Catholic, the second largest group were atheists at 20 per cent.
Census
The researchers also drew comparisons between results from the most recent census and the survey.
In the 2011 census, 84.16 per cent of the country said they were Catholic, while of the student sample, only 57.8 per cent would claim to be Catholic.
Meanwhile, the 2011 census shows that 2.81 per cent state they are Church of Ireland and the survey shows that 2.2 per cent of students are Church of Ireland/Protestant.
When asked “Do you attend communal religious ceremonies and functions?” the highest response was ‘no’ at 61 per cent, and those who responded ‘yes’ mainly attend only 1-3 times a year.
While 61.5 per cent of the Catholic students asked if they take communion said ‘yes’, only 32.2 per cent believe that it’s the body and blood of Christ.
Freedom
The top response for why students don’t follow a religion was that they ‘don’t believe in the teachings’ (77.8 per cent).
While 45.2 per cent of students follow a religion because of their parents’ influence, 40 per cent wouldn’t want their children to follow the same religion they were brought up with. Only 13.7 per cent follow a religion due to a strong faith.
In total, 41 per cent of students pray when they need something, such as good academic results or a successful job interview. Only 11.7 per cent said that they follow religious teachings in everyday life.
Beliefs
When asked how they would characterise their belief in God, 37.5 per cent state that they believe in God, with the top response at 41.5 per cent being unsure if there is a God.
The survey showed that 78.7 per cent of students have been negatively affected with regard to how they perceive the Catholic Church after recent scandals.
Meanwhile, 76.8 per cent of students said they think that the Catholic Church has too much power in Ireland.
When asked ‘Do religious beliefs have a place in society?’ 54 per cent of students stated that they do not believe society needs the influence of religion.
Colman Byrne, managing director of Student Marketing Network and oxygen.ie and former president of the Union of Students Ireland, said the survey “certainly shows that there is a major disconnect between organised religion and young people in Ireland”.
Finally, 3.4 per cent of the respondents claimed to be Jedi. May the force be with them…
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My son announced that he was an agnostic when he was 12 and my daughter says she is an atheist. I am a practicing Catholic so was a bit disappointed but I never force them to come to Mass now,not even at Christmas. Religion is a personal thing and I don’t think it’s right to force your children into your own beliefs. Apart from weddings,Baptisms and funerals,they haven’t set foot in the church in years.
I gotta say, what you said there makes me respect you an awful lot.
I think you could learn a lot from your children… no offence.
I would agree. It is an intensely personal subject and if you are to truly believe in something then you should be arriving at that conclusion for yourself – not because you were taught it from the time you could comprehend.
Kudos to you for not forcing your beliefs onto your kids :)
No need for that Declan! They can no more convince me that they are right than I can them. I respect their decision and they respect my beliefs. We don’t discuss it or argue about it.
That’s some fine parenting right there.
Declan, for God’s sake have some respect for this lady who is an example to us all. She has allowed her children freedom of choice – and you’re still not happy.
Andrea Rock Massey, don’t mind Declan,
Its great that you are not forcing anything on your kids and I agree religion is very much a personal thing.
I don’t believe in god, but my wife does. She used to be catholic but would now consider herself merely a christian as she can’t in good conscious support the catholic church anymore (her words, not mine).
If religion and belief in a god helps you get through life and hard times then by all means believe in it.
My issue is when your believe structure starts affecting a person who doesn’t believe in your god.
A perfect example of this is our education system which is mainly catholic ethos but is tax payer funded, also the catholic church pushing its views when it comes to legislation like abortion.
Anyway, I respect you for giving your kids free will when it comes to their beliefs,
Well done Andrea! You are a great example to all parents.
Ah, you ok then with your kids going to hell? Or do you not really believe it yourself?
I don’t believe that good people go to hell,I actually don’t agree with everything the church says but I still consider myself a Catholic. I don’t agree with their attitude towards homosexuality or their stance on abortion. But like I said earlier,religion is a very personal thing.
Adding ‘no offence’ really means nothing there, Declan. Andrea respects her kids’ non-belief, she deserves the same respect.
That’s true parental love there Andrea,a lot of people wouldn’t be as fortunate as your kids and end up suffering untold grief,lucky kids!
Hats off to you Andrea, I imagine your children will respect your decision. I am curious of one thing though. You say you don’t discuss this with your children, I don’t mean to pry and if you’re uncomfortable discussing this subject that’s fine, I still respect you. I don’t know what age your children are now but is there a reason you don’t discuss this with them, are you uncomfortable with it or do you avoid the topic because you feel they may be too young.
I had a similar experience with my kids, I did what I thought I was supposed to do, what was best for them, the whole communion and confirmation thing (which made me very uncomfortable as it just seemed to be based around money, who got how much). At about that time they each drifted away and told me that was that, they no longer believed in God and while we wouldn’t have forced them to go to mass, so it wasn’t a regular thing, they each decided not to go any more. It was a huge relief as I no more believed in a God than they did. We have always continued to talk about religion in general, the belief in divine beings etc. which is why I’m curious that you don’t.
Andrea you obviously love and respect your children very dearly . Respect to you .
Ok Andrea, I take that back.
But… The most fundamental part of Christianity is that Christians MUST believe that Jesus “sacrificed” himself as punishment for all of our sins and we MUST believe this to avoid eternity in Hell. If you don’t believe this you’re not only not Catholic, you’re not even Christian.
Declan, stop being such a tool and show some respect. You clown.
I didn’t realise that you were policing the comments section here Straight. What exactly is your problem?
Hi Jed,when my son first questioned the existence of God (at age 7) I spoke to him about why I believed in God and how I felt about it. He had a pretty strong argument against and I didn’t want him to doubt his intelligence or to start second guessing himself so I just told him about when and how I found my faith. I told him that every person is different and that that was perfectly fine. I suppose I thought that one day he would start to have faith. He never mentioned it again until he was 12 when he quite firmly told me that he was agnostic,that he had thought about it and that was what he felt was him. This is when my daughter who was 14 told me she was atheist. We talked about it at length that day and for maybe a day or two afterwards but never again. They are now 16 and 14,they still feel the same as do I. We don’t discuss it now because there is no need. It doesn’t matter to me how they feel or what they believe as long as they are good decent people (which they are). I have always been very religious for reasons I won’t go into here but they were personal to me so I knew it wouldn’t be right to force my opinions onto them when the reasons were mine alone.
@Andrea That’s sounds fine, I don’t know you but you sound like a good parent to me. I agree with you, as long as our children are good decent people I don’t care what they do, or don’t, believe in. While these things can never be guaranteed and we can all only hope we’ve done a good job, having good moral values isn’t dependent on a belief in a divine being, it depends of the person in question, how they are raised and probably many other factors too, but none of them to do with religion.
It can be a difficult time for teenagers, if you do nothing else talk to them, no matter what its about, they’ll probably moan and give out, its what they’re supposed to do, but talk. I really wish you and your family well.
Same to you Jed. And you are right, there are so many factors that determine what kind of people our children become and the most important are their home lives and the relationships they have. I’m in no way perfect but I do my best and I know right from wrong and I hope that rubs off in some way.
Well said Declan. You can claim to be a catholic and then go on to say that you don’t accept some of their teachings.
Andrea also said that she was “disappointed” that her kids were Atheist/Agnostic…….
I’d be proud that my kids were free thinkers….
Paul,I was only disappointed because my own faith is very strong so I obviously wanted my children to feel the same. I was never disappointed in them as people! You clearly don’t believe in God so would you feel disappointed if your children developed a strong belief? Or would you be delighted?
I agree it’s not right to force your children into your own beliefs, so wondering in that case did you send them to a Catholic school, where the curriculum dictates that every subject, not just religion classes, be used for the ‘formation’ of the faith, or to a multi-denominational school where they would be able to learn equally about all beliefs and none?
I sent them to a Gaeilscoil which is also a Catholic school. And they are now in a VEC Secondary school where they learn about all major world religions up to third year and then have the option to drop it entirely (which my daughter has already chosen to do and I have no doubt my son will chose to do next year).
Andrea & Shanti, why is religion a personal thing? God or gods cannot exist for Andrea and then somehow not exist for me. Gods either exist or they do not.
No doubt Andrea believes in a particular god but presumably not all gods. She’s an Atheist like her children as far as 99% of all gods are concerned.
Finally did her parents force her to believe in their god?
William, of course God can exist. You choose to believe that He does not. Andrea and myself believe He does.
Quite simple really.
Andrea, I take my virtual hat off to you (and also to Jed – who is at all times courteous and respectful to those with beliefs – unlike others).
We had three (now adult) children. The middle one still has a very strong faith and would attend Mass infrequently. The other two chose to stop attending Mass at 16. Their choice. But still retain their beliefs. I attend Mass – my wife does not, only for special occasions.
They are three extremely diverse – and most importantly good – people.
It is said to see the behaviours of some anti-Catholics on this thread. But they are, thankfully, in a tiny minority.
I wasn’t forced to believe anything,my Mam is also a Catholic but she doesn’t practice anymore. My faith is my own and different from that of my 12 siblings. Some believe there is a God but don’t practice any religion,some have no belief whatsoever and one is a born again Christian. I am not an atheist in any way,shape or form. I believe that there is one God but countless religions. I don’t argue about it with people because people are free to believe in whatever they like.
Enola, you missed my point entirely. The belief in gods is not a “personal matter”. I said that gods cannot both exist and not exist so it’s not personal. Facts are not personal. The universe either came about by natural means or was created by gods. We evolved or we didn’t. There’s no personal issue here. I didn’t choose to not believe in gods. There are no gods. It’s just an old primitive superstition.
Anti-Catholic?? Catholics are and have been violently opposed to Atheists, even burning them at the stake. Religious people seem to have bad memories. What sort of Catholics killed 20,000 Protestants in Paris during the St Bartholomew’s night massacre? Were they anti-Protestant’s?
Andrea, isn’t it an amazing co-incidence that you’re a Catholic and so is/was your mother? People the world over and in the past mainly were the same religion as their parents and whatever was the main religion in their society. You didn’t find your faith. You were brainwashed, otherwise you would belong to some other religion.
You are an Atheist; you don’t believe in Ganesha for example do you? I don’t either so we’re both Atheists when it comes to Ganesha, Thor, Apollo, Zeus, Wodin etc etc….
You should learn from your children. Children generally are cleverer and better educated than their parents. Humanity is learning more every generation.
Religion is personal because not everybody chooses to believe it. It is very real to me but not to you,you think there is no God but I think there is. I am not an unintelligent person,I don’t disbelieve science fact and I don’t believe in Creationism. No,it is not a coincidence that both my mother and I share the same religion but I was far from brain washed. I am one of 13 siblings and only 2 consider themselves to be Catholic. I found my faith when I was 11 for reasons I won’t go into here but suffice it to say,they were genuine and personal to me. I don’t now nor have I ever forced those beliefs onto others (including my children) because I don’t believe that is how it should work.
William – such hostility. It’s hard to credit that you are so bitter. Learn from my children? My children have learned more than enough from my wife and I.
We gave them the freedom to make up their own minds. Being the intelligent and good people that they are, they are now repaying that courtesy. You should try it sometime.
They have the utmost respect for our beliefs, as we do for theirs. But some people are never happy.
I believe that people like Andrea and ourselves have the balance just right. I don’t know whether or not you have children, but I sincerely hope you that you give them the space to develop their own beliefs. And not foist your own lack of belief upon them.
What will you do if one if them develops a strong faith William? Will you have the intelligence, backbone, and manners to allow them proceed? Or try to foist your own outlook on them?
Andrea and Enola, I repeat again that all the various gods cannot both exist and NOT exist at the same time. Therefore whether or not there are gods cannot be a personal matter. Like any hypothesis, religion is open to objective analysis. It’s not a personal matter whether or not the Earth (mainly) goes around the Sun or visa versa.
Andrea, obviously for some decades now religion has been in terminal decline all over the developed world. It is dying so fast that the fact that most of your siblings are not religious is not surprising. When you understand why you are not a Hindu, you should be able to understand why you shouldn’t be a Catholic.
Enola, I’m nowhere near as hostile as the religious. If one of my children became religious it would only be because of a mental illness. We didn’t brainwash them, how could they be religious?
I can’t be bothered with this anymore,you don’t seem to respect my decision and you are being rude and insulting now when I have not. Having faith and believing in God does not mean a person is unintelligent. There are some very bright minds out there,men of science that still believe in God. I don’t feel the need to insult people who don’t believe in God and if you feel some sort of obligation to ridicule those who do, then maybe you should find a Catholic person who loves to argue and hurl abuse. There are plenty out there.
Well said Andrea. William, your statement above shows just how little tolerance you have.
I pity your children (if you have any). There appears to be something lacking in your life. I’m not going to say God, but you are definitely lacking something. Truly.
Andrea, God bless and best wishes for the future.
William, you do realise that right now you sound exactly like those bible thumpers you love to hate, right?
“No! You may not have your own personal beliefs, I believe that there cannot be a god and so you must agree!”
It’s no better than “My religion is the one true religion and you must believe or else”..
Enola is right, you’re being a major bigot. If Andrea obtains comfort and solace from her beliefs then that is a positive thing, she doesn’t push them on others, not even her own kids. Whereas you bow down at the altar of science and demean anyone who dares to disagree. Talk about hypocrisy..
I have no fondness for Catholicism, that much should be quite apparent – but I also have enough cop on to realise that it’s their life, their mind, and their business. The only time I take issue with religion is when it is being pushed upon others. And I would be a hypocrite if I didn’t take issue with your behaviour here because it is exactly the same thing.
Andrea isn’t asking you to modify your life to comply with her beliefs, so who the hell do you think you are demanding that she should for you?
Thanks Enola,same to you. And thank you Shanti,it’s nice to encounter people with opposing viewpoints who don’t feel the need to lecture about it. I’d say God bless but…… :-)
Thank you for those sentiments Shanti.
Lol Andrea, thanks :) The only time I take issue with religion is when it is being used to interfere with me or I am being told that I must believe, in those instances I will fight back for my right to believe what I want to, and I don’t really even share those beliefs with most people as they are constantly evolving.
Because I don’t appreciate religious people trying to force their belief on me, I can empathise with what it is like to have someone trying to force their disbelief on you. It’s no different really. We each have our faith, be it in science or the supernatural. Neither have all the answers. And we may never really have them, in the meantime we should all be allowed to believe what we want in our hearts – provided we don’t start trying to push it on others. After all – the one thing we should all be able to agree on is that we have free will!
And ps William, it wasn’t atheists that were burned at the stake. It was witches. Witches who practised what we would now term complementary therapies.. But you have great issue with them too don’t you? You’re always calling them sCAM artists and calling for them to be banned (you also disbelieve any of the research that backs up the usage of complementary therapies and insist upon tarring European therapists with an American brush) you’re not so far off calling for the witches to be burned at the stake yourself..
Andrea, you think itâs a coincidence that yourself and your mother have the same religion? Therefore itâs also a coincidence that the vast majority of Hindus have Hindu parents and the same for Muslims. Some coincidence? Youâre in denial. Itâs not a coincidence. You were brainwashed as were the Muslims, the Hindus, the Amish and all those with the same religion as their parents.
@Enola – how very Christian of you
@William – you are 100% correct but logic is wasted on believers.
I once asked a true believer what he thought of a God that required one of his followers to prove his love to him by killing his son…….
…..I was attempting to use logic to proof that God was an evil SOB.
His answer…….god’s logic is a type of logic that is beyond our comprehension
Believers are not less intelligent in a conventional sense……they are just less evolved
Are you still rabbiting on? I was 11,not 13. I wasn’t brain washed. I am an intelligent person (believe it or not,I could care less). And I respect other people and their fundamental rights to live their lives however they chose and to believe in whatever they chose. There is nothing courteous or evolved in either of your attitudes to people with differing viewpoints. So go find someone willing to rise to your incessant attempts to argue because you are wasting your “evolved” time on me.
Andrea, there’s no point really. That “evolved mind” seems to have particular difficulty processing information.
Andrea, one of the reasons you still believe in all that nonsensical superstition is not you refuse to address the paradoxes that your belief throw up. You haven’t attempted to answer a single question I put to you. Instead you continue to misrepresent what I said, e.g. I didn’t say that you could not believe whatever mumbo jumbo you liked.
You had an experience when you were 11, can that bring a god into existence? No matter what your experience?
How can you possibly expect me to respect a person’s opinion when they are so nonsensical? If someone told you they believed that fairies lived at the end of their garden, would you respect their opinion? Would you respect someone who told you that your soul was the soul of a Thetan, an extra-galactic alien who lost a battle a billion years ago and were banished to Earth? Would you respect them?
When you or anyone else can prove to me that there is no God,I will quite happily concede defeat here. And before you respond with,”you prove to me that there is” remember that you are the one ridiculing my beliefs. I have nothing to prove to you,I cannot convince you that you are wrong anymore than you convince me that I am.
Andrea, the Scientific Method has become by far the best way to understand reality. You can’t possibly disagree with that. It has revealed all the laws discovered that govern the universe; how it came about, how all the materials in it were made, how it works down to the smallest mass, distance and time there is and even how life evolved and the most important aspect of the method is that a hypothesis needs evidence and proof and must make testable predictions.
If ANYONE makes a claim of ANY description then they must provide the evidence and make testable predictions. Neither you, nor any religious person has never done that successfully. Many religions, including Christianity, have claimed the imminent end of the world and it still hasn’t ended.
The problem with making claims with no evidence or predictive quality is that ANY claim can be made and religions do make the most amazing claims. THAT is why there are so many religions and whacky beliefs such as Homeopathy, Reflexology etc. Religions all contradict one another.
Until you grasp that piece of logic you will always be in the wrong.
If you grasp the concept of the Scientific Method of logic, evidence and objectivity I could explain to you where you are wrong and you would understand. On the other hand what mechanism could you possibly bring to bear on me that would convince me that your particular religion of the thousands that have been and exist (and in fact Andrea’s take on it) are an explanation of reality?
Enola, your extreme frustration at being unable to answer a single question is obvious but please show where I was obnoxious or ignorant? You’re the one throwing all the insults about.
By referring to our beliefs as “nonsensical superstition” and “mumbo jumbo” you are in fact being beyond rude. I don’t have to explain why I believe in God,I do and that is all there is to it. I don’t doubt scientific fact,I don’t believe that the earth is only 2000 years old or that dinosaurs didn’t exist. I don’t doubt that the universe is infinite,that it is always expanding. I don’t doubt that the universe could eventually become one great big black hole etc etc etc. I just also believe that God exists at the same time. I don’t know why you are making such a big deal about it. Does it really bother you that much?
Really? Then you should have said, “I’m off to pray” instead of “I off to pray”.
Andrea, I just thought that you were looking for a way out.
Is this Mumbo Jumbo, “your soul was the soul of a Thetan, an extra-galactic alien who lost a battle a billion years ago and were banished to Earth”? Is anything Mumbo Jumbo? Is it OK to say that something that we both agree is Mumbo Jumbo is Mumbo Jumbo? In other words is it OK to state that something that say nearly everyone agrees is Mumbo Jumbo rude?
This is a definition of superstition, “Superstition is a pejorative term for belief in supernatural causality: that one event leads to the cause of another without any natural process linking the two events, such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science.”
You do agree that there are superstitions don’t you? Would you tell someone who threw salt over their shoulder that it was only a superstition or would that be rude?
The word “nonsensical” in front of it is what makes it rude and insulting. You are saying that my beliefs are nonsense. You have a right to feel that way but you don’t have a right to ridicule and insult people with differing beliefs to yours. That makes you no better than every other bigot out there.
“nonsensical”, means makes no sense. All religious beliefs can be so defined.
There are actually less Catholics in the country than the census suggests. I know a lot of people who have no religion, but tick the Catholic box on the form anyway for various reasons. I don’t understand why.
Because when it has been drilled into you for the first eighteen years of your life it’s hard not to tick that box! It’s like the other question that a lot of people tick yes to. Can you speak Irish? People think the ability to ask to go to the Jax in Irish counts!
How do people let the church have so much power over them? It should be simple: if you don’t believe, don’t tick the box. Cloud guy is not going to smite those that don’t tick the box, because he doesn’t exist!
I think the answer to that one FreeThinker has already been mentioned by Liam below. People who may not believe in god still consider themselves culturally catholic. They probabaly would like to use the local church for the final send off and sure membership isn’t costing them anything!
Ah, ok. Still seems very silly and strange to me though, to officially identify yourself with a religion if you aren’t a believer in their deity of choice! How can you really be a part of the religious community if you don’t believe? Every insincere tick on the catholic box is just one more juicy little number for the Vatican to smugly claim for their statistics.
FreeThinker as it happens the figures are actually probably not all that far wrong and only because according to an article that was on here last week it is actually nigh on impossible to actually renounce your faith with the catholic church. The only organisation that used to assist with this was recently shut down and there is currently no other way. So by hook or by crook they are keeping their numbers up.
Maybe there should be several separate boxes, “genuine catholic believer”, “catholic of convenience”, “non-believer but say catholic to keep the family happy”, “catholic but only to get married in a church” etc..
Shure will ye shtart coming to mass again, son?
Over my dead body!
Are you talking about the Count Me Out website? It’s disgusting that they stopped them. I can see how that is a huge problem as far as statistics go. I’m glad I was never a catholic in the first place, and that I managed to alert some people to that website before it was shut down.
You can still get yourself removed officially, by writing to the appropriate person/people and requesting it. I don’t know who that is, but a friend of mine got himself removed that way. It just took a few back and forth letters of “Are you sure you want to leave?”
“Yes”
“Are you certain?”
“Yes”
“Ok we have removed you”.
Just some anecdotal evidence to back this up I wasn’t told the forms had arrived and my mam just filled them out for me so I’m still listed as Catholic even though I’d have ticked No Religion. She doesn’t have a problem with it or anything, none of us go to mass outside of a Christmas eve tradition but still the whole family is listed as Catholic
And also, consider who completes the census form in a family – do parents of young adults fill it in for the young adults, does the census really reflect the views of every family member?
So roughly 37% believe in God but 60% are Catholics? That makes sense!
Those people that don’t believe in a God, but do consider themselves Catholics would be cultural Catholics. There are quiet a few Jewish people as well who also don’t believe in a God, yet see themselves as Jewish.
Either that or they think that the fact they were baptised in the catholic church means they are catholic regardless of what they believe.
An extra 40% weren’t sure if there is our isn’t a god, imagine the catholics include some who aren’t certain but are hedging their bets.
Only because of Canon Law, and even then I believe your name being in a book doesn’t make you Catholic; only your innermost beliefs can do that. I have been an atheist for several years; if I had my way I would officially leave the Catholic church, but I can’t because I no longer have that option.
60% of the time… It works all the time…
Say but the word and you are free from the church. You did not sign the contract with them, did you?
..& you didn’t see Jedi mentioned in the Cloyne Report!
Just wait until the marching season starts.
Those damn sith marching in our Jedi majority areas
Jedi is actually believable..
What a turn around for Catholism.Next thing Priests form Africa will be coming to convert us.
You mean Roman Catholic as opposed to Catholic, do you?
Pastafarian myself. All hail his noodliness!
R’amen
The 37.5 per cent of students that stated that they believe in God are all from Donegal….apparently!!
Great news, the census doesn’t really show what people in Ireland actually believe, some may claim to be Catholic, yet when 61% don’t attend communal religious ceremonies and functions it really puts into perspective what Irish people believe. To ask these questions 20 years ago of young people in Ireland, it would most certainly been very different to what the answers that were given here. In another 20 years time, Catholics will likely not be the majority. A clear separation of the church and the state will be for the benefit of everyone.
I pray for that day to come… Well, I don’t pray ;)
There’s hope for the future. Now lets see the Catholic Church get out of our state funded schools
Jedi is the way to go.
37.5% of students believe in a big man that lives in the sky. This country’s future is really bleak.
Contrast that to what the answer would have been 20 years ago and I’d say we have a fairly bright future ahead of us. Well done to all the young free thinkers out there.
32.2% think that Christ was made of wafer and fermented grapes.. Interesting.. Explains how he could walk on water – but presumably he got a bit soggy..
It’s funny, because this part of the religion harks back to a pagan ritual. There’s a mushroom which was known as the “Gods Flesh”, toward the end of its life cycle it grows into the “Grail phase”, where it resembles a chalice. The morning dew and rainwater collect in this chalice, taking on the colour of the mushroom which is a deep red – and dissolving some of the active ingredients, causing it to be known as the blood of the gods. Drink that stuff and you will be communing with gods – hence the name.
And before anyone tries to say that this has nothing to do with Catholicism, please explain to me why there’s two giant fountains in the middle of St Peters Square in the shape of this mushroom during its last two phases.
This all went a bit poor-man’s Dan Brown didn’t it? So a mushroom native to Mexico and two fountains designed in the 17th century somehow show that Christianity is influenced by paganism?
@Kevin, I don’t know about the mushroom stuff, but that Christianity has been influenced by Paganism is pretty much beyond question. Christmas traditions are almost entirely pagan, for example the time of the year, Christmas trees (which are specifically forbidden by the bible), and exchanging gifts are definitely rooted in Paganism.
John, there is a difference between the co-opting of pagan festival dates to make Christianity more palatable to pagans and what Shanti is suggesting. Which seems to be that pagan use of mushrooms inspired the belief in transubstantiation
Er, Kevin.
What mushroom are you talking about?
The psilocybin cubensis is not what I am referring to.
Kevin, Shanti is correct about the mushroom stuff. I’m guessing you haven’t researched it yourself, which means your objection to the notion is based on personal opinion, and not fact or logic. Please go and read about it, then if you still don’t agree, at least we could have an objective debate about it. May I suggest you learn where the different varieties of psychedelic mushrooms grow also?
“In 1505, the Phrygianum was finally demolished on the orders of Pope Julius II in order to make way for the new massive pagan temple we know today as St. Peters Basilica”
http://one-evil.org/content/entities_locations_vatican.html
Apologies Shanti I’m not a mycologist. But my understanding is that ‘God’s flesh’ is an accepted name for Psilocybe Mexicana. The only place where Amanita Muscaria is referred to by that name is on conspiracy websites. Most of these seem to draw their information from The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. This book has been debunked on many counts. Both on the linguistic assumptions made by Allegro in translating the Dead Sea Scrolls and on the fact that that while it is a widely found species the Amanita Muscara is not found in the Middle East. Whether this notion has been around a while or not it is considered by most serious researchers to be false.
I’ve already agreed in my comment above that the church has taken over pagan festival dates and indeed customs within wider Christian celebrations (Christmas tree etc). Again this is wholly different from saying central beliefs of Christianity are inspired by paganism.
@Free Thinker. Thanks for the tips. I’m guessing your ‘free thinking’ doesn’t kick in when bad revisionist theories can be used to try undermine religions
The fresco at Abbeye de Plaincouralt in France (1291) depicts Adam and Eve with the Amanita Muscaria, the serpent wrapped around the mushrooms stalk (could the mushroom be the fruit of the tree of knowledge as opposed to an apple?).
The Paris Eadwine Psalter (1147) is littered with depictions of magic mushrooms.
The Eustace window at Chartres from the 13th century also has many magic mushrooms within the artwork.
Really, a lot of Christian art from before the renaissance included magic mushrooms.
The use of the mushroom was likely a rite of passage, as the use of entheogenic substances remains with tribal groups (Ayahuasca in Peru, Peyote in Native American tribes, Iboga in the Bwiti tribe in Cameroon etc). The rite of passage relies upon the deeply spiritual experiences reported from their usage, there is a sense of “communion” or oneness with all living things.
To be honest – I would have a lot more respect for this take on it, because the way the Catholic Church plays it now they are promoting cannibalism and vampirism. If you are supposed to believe that through transubstantiation this wafer and wine become actual flesh and blood then the idea of them is quite sick.
@Sh Cannibalism? Symbolism- educate yourself, you’re steeped in ignorance.
The “Baptism of Christ” by Aert De Gelder (1710) depicts a silvery saucer shaped UFO in the sky. “The Crucifixion”(1350) in the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo shows pilots controlling sky cars. Therefore maybe Christianity was brought by aliens. Do you find this argument convincing?
Maybe the artists liked how mushrooms looked. Maybe it was popular in the art of the time/area. Maybe the artist was high on them. But it’s a fairly big leap to think that certain artists have access to some esoteric knowledge about the origin of Christianity that has been kept from the rest of us .
Transubstantiation doesn’t mean the physical change of bread and wine to body and blood. Catholics believe that the essence or underlying reality of the Eucharist changes so that Christ is present . No cannibalism required ;)
Everything Shanti has said is true, pretty much all religions have their roots is paganism and all have evolved form a past that included some form of shamanism. It would have been common for a shaman to use a form of “natural herb” to commune with the spirits. They may have also have offered a sacrifice to their gods, either real or symbolic. Is drinking the blood of Christ and eating his flesh in what Catholics are supposed to believe is real in the form of transubstantiation any different?
Whether you believe in them or not, the bible acknowledged witches, saying they shouldn’t be allowed to live – this was all the Torquemada’s of the church needed as an excuse to kill thousands of innocent women during the middle ages.
@Kevin It’s Church doctrine that transubstantiation will literally change the wine and bread into the blood and body of Christ. Hence if it is literally the body and blood of Christ being consumed then…
Do this in commemoration of me Luke 22:19
They may have seen things in the sky as people do now. Does that mean they were UFOs? Well, as they are technically unidentified flying objects then yes, aliens? Well.. That’s a whole different kettle of fish. There are some people who put more credence in aliens having come to us in ancient times – but that’s a different topic.
It’s true. I knew a nun once who believed that if someone needed a blood transfusion consecrated wine would work.
She was an intelligent woman whom I had huge regard and respect for. My first wicked case of cognitive dissonance….how could I respect someone who was barking mad
This site was nice enough to host Benny Shanons paper “Biblical Entheogens: a Speculative Hypothesis” from Time and Mind.
http://lucidconsciousness.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/biblical_entheogens.pdf
This details some of the entheogens present in the Sinai region, and the similarities between Moses experiences and that of an Ayahuasca trip. Also how highly prized acacia wood (my apologies – earlier I referred to it as a bush when it is in fact a tree), and mandrake (another hallucinogen) are in the Old Testament.
There can never be full and total proof – as Mr Shanon points out, many of the plants mentioned in ancient texts can only be identified by their description as the names are no longer the same. But the descriptions fit.
Is it beyond the realm of comprehension that those who sought to be considered closer to god than any of the laity would seek to hide this information from them? Hidden in symbolism, plainly obvious to those who have the eye to see.
This is from the Council of Trent which among other things confirmed Catholic teaching on the Eucharist and transubstantiation “First of all, the holy council teaches and openly and plainly professes that after the consecration of bread and wine, our Lord Jesus Christ, true God and true man, is truly, really and substantially contained in the august sacrament of the Holy Eucharist under the appearance of those sensible things. For there is no repugnance in this that our Savior sits always at the right hand of the Father in heaven[3] according to the natural mode of existing, and yet is in many other places sacramentally present to us in His own substance by a manner of existence which, though we can scarcely express in words, yet with our understanding illumined by faith, we can conceive and ought most firmly to believe is possible to God”. This means that Catholics believe there is a change to the “substance” (or the nature of the bread and wine) without there being a change to the physical attributes of the bread and wine. This is not symbolism in the sense you describe nor is it cannibalism because physical flesh and blood is not present.
The problem with things hidden in symbolism is that you can find whatever you are looking for
In other words – it’s a load of twaddle.. The Catholic Church have lied their way through their existence, claiming other festivals as their own, burning people for daring not to fall in line with them, and hiding monsters..
But of course – they’re telling the truth about this and the fact that their messiah had the same life story, synonyms and behaviours of thousands if gods before him..
The percentage that do believe were more than likely brainwashed by their parents. My boyfriend has been convinced that if he doesn’t go to mass every week that something bad will happen. It’s actually pathetic to be 25 and believe that.
Time to get rid!
It doesn’t work like that. I myself wasn’t brainwashed though my parent were believers (or that’s what I thought) but I had become settled in agnosticism by the age of 12 or 13, entirely by my own reasoning.
I suspect, if that boyfriend really thinks what you say, does actually believe in the religion he was brought up in. Which is his entitlement, if you don’t share his belief it will probably end in argument and relation difficulties at some point, if not now.
It’s not a deal breaker but I honestly can’t believe in all his heaven and hell stuff. He’s from a very religious family whereas I’m not. My main issue is that the family were very hard line about certain issues that in my mind are very old fashioned. I’ve been told by some that I’m a hypocrite for going to certain religious occasions like funerals but I don’t go for the religious reasons it’s more as a mark of respect.
Òr, you know, they could just respect each other’s beliefs (or lack there of).
You should tell your boyfriend that it says in the bible that you shouldn’t build churches or engage in public religious affairs.
Wellyd – let them mind their own business. If you choose to go to church ceremonies it’s entirely up to you, as long as you are comfortable doing so.
Don’t tell Stephen Mc Elligott ! The Devout Catholics always quote 84% of the cenus is Catholic but this shows amongst young educated people religion is getting found out as nothing more than delusional nonsense.
Least you can leave the Cult of Scientology unlike the Cult of Catholicism. I wonder what EU law makes of the Catholic Church preventing people leaving it? Surely it infringes personal rights.
I think you’ll find it’s a lot easier to walk away from Catholocism than it is from Scientology.
Well im sorry I can accept how someone can be raised and believe in Catholicism(trans-generational faith) but the fact the Powers in the Vatican changed the ruling on leaving really shows how desperate the Catholic Church have become.
Someone who actually believes in the complete garbage offered by the Cult of Scientology must have an underlying cognitive disorder because it is so ridiculous that for any educated person to willingly join well they deserve everything they get.
Well, I hope Mr McElligott has a good read of this, and failing that, perhaps he’d care to write a happy-clappy song about it:
But Rory what really grinds my gears is atheists believe they’re smart just because they don’t believe in god.
If I’m not mistaken The Journal featured an article about a website that helps people leave the Catholic Church in the last few days.
What grinds my gears is that believers cannot accept that atheists are more intelligent, despite the surveys.
Atheists = science, reason & proof
Believers / creationists = neither of the above
I’m not a believer. I’ve an engineering degree but if you really believe that you are more intelligent than millions of people for the sole reason that you don’t believe in a god then you have to be an idiot. There is no other alternative.
Rory, try and think who is the biggest idiot out of you and your atheist friends. If you can’t figure out who it is pretty quickly, chances are it’s you!
In response to your well-engineered answer, Mr Jingles, please answer me this: who is the more smarter of the following two: the one who believes in something where there is absolutely no irrefutable proof of its existence, or, the one who believes in something where there is absolute and irrefutable proof?
@Rory Byrne *more smart
So show me your absolute and irrefutable proof that there isn’t a higher power. I’m sure the whole world would be interested in it. Ahh let me guess. You’re going to roll out the old “the bible is a pack of lies”….. I’d be in agreement with you there. Doesn’t prove or disprove anything.
I suppose you couldn’t think of any friends so.
Actually, if the church was popular in the world I would have every reason to be worried indeed. As for the census, I didnt expect anything less and I use to always tell the story of when the Pope once visited a monastery and he said to the Abbott in charge there ” so how many monks would you say are here in the abbey as there seems to be so many of them its hard to count?” The abbot replied ” oh about four or five your Holiness” .
Jesus was crucified by his very own, God himself was very unpopular. So when people tell me how unpopular the Church and God is with the idea of saying ” I told you so” to set me on edge… I look at the Cross of Christ and I seem him hanging there, and I sigh and a kind of sorrow takes hold of me and I say ” I know…I know and it will always be this way until the second coming”
The idea that atheists are more intelligent than religious people is funny though considering that the scientific method was further developed by by the Catholic Church in the 12th century. That an Augustinian Friar founded genetics and a Belgian Roman Catholic priest George’s Lamaitre founded the Big Bang theory.
By the way, have you ever seen the debate between William lame Craig ( a Christian ) and hitchens on YouTube? He totally destroyed hitchens who just wasn’t competent in the area of meta physics. Again the charge that religious people are less intelligent than atheists is unfounded.
You can actually hear the groans of google as Rory frantically mashes his keyboard in the attempt to finally answer the question man kind has asked since the dawn of time……lol!
The study shows that atheists are more intelligent on “average”. While I’m not familiar with some of the people you present as intelligent religious people ill take you on your word that they are but it’s always going to be easy to pick out selective examples.
Stiofan – I have watched that debate and do not believe Hitchens lost at all, despite the fact it was held in a Christian university of theology where Lane Craig happens to be a professor.
I’m atheist and I know as many stupid atheists as stupid religious people.
We’re not smart because we don’t believe in god.
But you are less smart if you do
is it not a bit of a contradiction to be catholic yet not believe in god?
I know scores of people that don’ believe but attend mass. My father would be one of them.
vader said to luke” i know what your getting for xmas”
luke says “how”
vader says ” ive felt your preasents”
jedi and sith are the way forward
What’s a preasent?
get a life dictionary head
Get a dictionary, Mel!
Seriously, it’s called an apostrophe, it’s not expensive!
Hahahaha, ‘dictionary head’. Must use that one.
bell end
that was for G W-A obviously
And I appreciate it! Your contributions to this article truly are insightful and awe-inspiring. I truly am thankful to have spoken with you… but you’re kind of a total b-word. Toodles!
What a site, juts imagine it, every church, mosque and temple in the nation locked up and levelled to the ground to provide useful outlets for society such as carparks and shopping centers. A glorious new dawn where we can move forward as a race without the shackles of nonsense and superstition. Some say I’m a dreamer.
It will just take time to complete the paradigm shift … It took a long time for people to accept that the world isn’t flat for example
Shopping centres are the new cathedrals, Mary Portas is the high priestess and the blessed sacrament is cash.
Consumerism has replaced religion for a lot of people. Its not beneficial to the human race, just the way we have become with shopping and celebrity attempting to be a reason for existence. Capitalism is a vile doctrine. A lot of organised religions are not much better, top management and staff all corrupt and breaking their own rules as they dish out instructions to others.
If you seek a God or look for meaning and wisdom, you won’t find either in the scenario above.
@Graham, tongue and Cheek. I fully agree with you big man. Morality wont be found in a cathedral nor at Tesco’s, but in man’s natural inclination for his own survival to do good.
Amen @Mr. Know it all… Jesus be in your heart.
Scientology is the only answer, Xenu forever.
Troll on, Hubbard!! :-)
In a billion years you’ll regret saying that.
When the time comes I’ll buy you a pint and we’ll talk about it , see ya later!! :-)
Holy sh1te!
This is great news. Another huge leap in the right direction.
Another Journal article on religion designed to increase page hits. Yawn.
@Tertullian that’s true- for a people who are not religious we are strangely obsessed with damming people who believe… strange thing.
I’m cyberpunk, it’s not on the census form. Cyberpunk should be a religion……
You worship Desmond Crisis then?
I am utterly excited to read these statistics, although in order to truly qualify them I would need to get more information in relation to the study itself…
We are at an incredibly exciting time of life when so much is changing and new thinking, new perception and new possibility is really surfacing… For sure we have a long way to go but let’s celebrate how far we have come…
I actually believe the current young generations have a build in BS detector and they are going to produce ideas, technologies and innovations far beyond anything we have touched and they will do it with an ethic and collective consciousness that will create more then destruct….
A lot of people have suffered for breakthroughs in consciousness to happen… Right now I remember and think of all those who are feeling pain in life; physical, financial, emotional, spiritual etc… Your pain is the reason for the change…. Thank you and I’m sorry it can be so tough some times… We can be a tough and rough race sometimes…
May all the beings in this world be happy…
Such an incredible time of change… How luck we are to be alive to witness it… Years from now when we are dead and gone people will wonder ‘what was it like to be around during the great time of change’..
Feeling gratitude, hope, appreciation and joy….
Hey Marcus, have you ever had Bird’s Eye Potato Waffles? You’d love them.
Surely it is easy to believe in a guy who can make virgins pregnant by remote control to give birth to himself?
Logic be praised.
Michael,Mary gave birth to Jesus,nit to God :-)
“not”
@Andrea, Prove it.
I’m starting to question how your children grew up so rationale.
Mr Know it all,I was smiling as I typed it. Hence the smiley face.
My apologies Andrea, I’m now sad because I don’t know how to use emoticon’s : )
You really make me laugh….and I’m not being sarcastic here :-) I don’t know the emoticon for laughing,only smiling…
You really make me laugh….and I am not being sarcastic. I don’t know the emoticon for laughing,only for smiling. Where’s a 7 year old when you need them?
Comment didn’t post first so I retyped it,now it’s there. Sorry about that!
I thought Jesus was god – that holy trinity malarkey, Jesus / God / The Holy Spirit are all supposed to be the same thing are they not? This is how it was taught to us in school..
I always learned that Jesus was the son of God…
Jesus, God and the holy spirit are one and the same.
Even I know that and I haven’y been to mass in 2 decades.
Like the, “God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit”? I never took that literally, I always interpreted that as Jesus being sent down as God’s physical manifestation on earth. Because the Bible also says that Jesus is now “seated at the right hand of the Father”. I don’t want to sound like I’m giving a religion lesson,just saying why I always thought of him as the son and not God.
Isn’t the point of the shamrocks and St Patrick that he was supposed to have used the shamrock to explain the trinity to us filthy pagans? The three leaves appear separate but are all the same thing.
Again – I’m basing this on what the nuns taught us in school..
To be honest,I can’t remember much of what was taught in school about it but I always thought the the Trinity was about being “of one” as opposed to being “one”. I am probably completely wrong! I can’t believe that I’ve had religious points clarified to me by someone who doesn’t believe in God. Haha brilliant!!
Hey – I could be wrong too, I am no scholar, I do remember having this stuff repeated over and over in school though.. I had rejected it early, so the reason it stuck out in my head was because I had taken issue with the thinking behind it. I remember arguing it with the nun we had for religion “so wait, god is Jesus, and Jesus is god, so he impregnated Mary with himself so that he can sacrifice himself to himself (and yet suicide is a sin)?”
The answer I got was something about not being old enough to fully appreciate the complexity of this concept.. To be honest I think I understood it just fine, she just didn’t want to get into it with a teenager in religion class..
Hahaha,you little upstart! My best friend in school was a thorn in the side of our religion teacher who happened to be the school priest. She questioned everything and his responses were always similar to the ones you received and even worse. I always rejected certain aspects but the teachers today seem to have a completely approach.
I would imagine they would have to be if it’s an exam subject now! Back when I was at school there was a nun teaching religion, from her catholic viewpoint. Most of the classes were about Catholicism – which we were taught was Christianity. We were taught that Protestantism was some people who didn’t respect Mary enough, the Jews were the people from Jesus time and to be honest – I don’t think we ever covered Islam, indeed, I didn’t realise Islam was the religion that Muslims followed until I was in college. Barely a mention of Buddhism or Hinduism, and nothing about anything else – for years I thought Sikhs were Hindus. For 6th year I started going to the library during religion class because it was just glorified indoctrination under the guise of teaching us about the broader subject. The majority of religions I have heard of I learned about myself by speaking to people who were that religion or reading about them. It’s a subject that I am interested in, but not the way it was taught. I like trying to understand what makes people tick, and why they are drawn to whatever religion it may be, I find the varying ideas about god(s) fascinating, what I find even more fascinating is the similarities and where they seem to have split apart.
Then there is the distinction between religion and spirituality, the way of life rather than the ritual and rigidity.
Look at me blabbering on, you’d swear this was a private chat!!
I know! But I don’t think anyone else is reading the comments at this stage :-) It is completely different at this stage although there are probably teachers who are still a bit fanatical. I am only going by the school my own children go to. They have learned about all the major world religions but only 2 in depth because I imagine it would be extremely tough to know everything by the time they sit their Junior Cert. For them,it has just compounded their views and they really view it as a waste of time. I have just told them to think of it as any other subject they are doing. Neither are opting to do it for the Leaving Cert!
I understand why people who don’t believe in God have real issues with the fact that the church have such an influence in the way schools are run and I do feel that there should be more non denominational schools. I imagine that will eventually happen and I think the sooner it happens,the better. There should never be students sitting in a library during school hours,religion should always have been an option. Although I’m sure you looked forward to sitting in the library…
Religion = War enough said !!!
People = War
People + religion = war
People + Religion + Government = war (it never ends)
Double-speak the USSR never was involved in war & it is so liberating to be a woman in China?
@Authur it’s that’s simple alright. Ever try communism?
Communism may reject religion, but only so that it can replace it with worship of the communist leadership.. Look at the cult of personality around Mao and tell me that’s not similar.
Well Rob read that article do and find it interesting but also Elitist – have you read this? http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html – these folks dont seem to unintelligent to me?
So some famous scientists believing in God is evidence of God in itself? Not really a rebuttal of the article I posted. A few exceptions don’t disprove the rule I’m afraid!
the point I was trying to make was in relation to the article (read my post)- unintelligent people = people who believe in God – the article which I posted (in my opinion) shows that intelligent people = believe in a God – quite a simple counter claim
@Rob, but religious people are far happier and live much longer. Seems to me the most intelligent are believers and the ones in the middle are the atheists.
I don’t think you can take it as read that atheists are more intelligent than believers any more than you can claim religious people are happier or live longer.
There’s far more factors at play.. And many exceptions to either rule. It’s like saying people who play computer games are lazier and people who play golf live longer – it may be true of large chunks of either group – it doesn’t mean that it’s a fact.
Shanti, the vast majority of Scientists, who are very clever fellows indeed, do not believe in gods. There is an obvious correlation between intelligence and the ability to understand and analyse information. It must be that the more intelligent and well read one is the more likely one is to be non religious, particularly in the last 150 years or so. It couldn’t possibly be the other way around. There are so many paradoxes and contradictions in religious belief that you must be either mad, brainwashed or have a low IQ to believe in a particular religion.
Paradoxes are rife within religious beliefs – on that I agree, but as I said elsewhere, religions are just beliefs about god(s). Faith is a belief that there is something out there, without the arrogance to pronounce its exact nature like religions do.
I don’t think there is any difference between faith and beliefs. People who are brought up as say Catholics say they have faith that there is a god but that’s not what happened. What happened was that they were told there was a god thousands of times as children which is reinforced by repetitive praying and then they think they have faith.
I do not believe there are no gods with 100% certainty because I don’t believe in anything with 100% certainty. However that doesn’t mean I think there might be a god. If there is “someone out there” it’s far far more likely they are just advanced aliens.
Faith is belief without evidence, so belief is a separate thing. Simple grammar William.
I don’t have beliefs. Science knows we got here by evolving, that the material that makes us up was forged in the Big Bang and stars. There is no Scientific recognition of a god or gods hypothesis. Primitive superstitions about all sorts of nonsense such as sky gods are just that, primitive nonsense with no basis in reality.
And William – what caused the Big Bang?
Nothing need to have “caused” the big bang. At the point of the big bang, the universe was so small that the laws of quantum mechanics would have prevailed. Quantum events do not need a cause then or now. The total amount of energy, mass and forces in the universe is zero. So the Big created the universe without a cause and without needing energy.
It would be interesting to know if the selected students were angry at the church for the child abuse etc and as a result changed their beliefs or was it done of their own accord i.e just didn’t buy into the existence of God? I wonder if the masses are jumping on the bandwagon that the church is totally evil full of paedos etc etc and turn their backs on God ? btw I am not a holy joe but do believe in the existence of God
Why do you believe in the existence of god Craig?
My older children just don’t believe in God,the scandals of the church had nothing to do with their decision. My son actually started to doubt the existence of God the year he made his First Communion. He said to me,”I don’t believe in God because if there is a God,where did he come from? Did something make God because he couldn’t come from nowhere. And if something did make God,then that must be even better than God so why don’t we pray to that?” He was only 7 but I knew it was game over! I believe but he was never going to…
Well Reg thats an easy answer – its based on my 40 years of life, experience and awareness on this planet.
Why do you not believe in the existence of God?
Well my answer is probably the same as yours Craig except that I have been on the planet a bit longer!
And that somehow makes you more correct then :-) – lets leave it there shall we hahaha
Where did I say I was correct? I asked a simple question out of interest.
just felt it was implied by your last post (exclamation mark and all)
@Andrea 7? I had questioned it at 5 and got over that stage of ignorant doubt. I could understand the concept of absolute nothingness and infinity thus irradiating the “who made God” question. He should be over that by now?
Faith is belief in a god, religion is just beliefs about god.
Is there something more out there? No one truly knows. There could be, there may not be. In the absence of any hard evidence, for any one religion to claim that it is the only true religion is the very definition of supreme arrogance (and there was I thinking that pride was a sin in the Judeo Christian religion)..
People can believe (or not believe) whatever they like, Andrea has shown proper love for her kids in respecting their free will to choose their own thoughts and beliefs rather than seeking to control them.
Good for you! He was 12….
I’m amazed its as high as 37 percent in this day and age.Theres a lot of evidence though that the doctrines of the church are seen as irrelevant to the young, which is unsurprising.
The Atheists are out in droves today – better make an exit before I’m red thumbed to death
Time to kick the last god out for good!
I know that’s not possible for a long time because the afflicted ones are still breeding and brainwashing their kids.
Will be quite a while alright… seems for the past couple of thousand years it never really happened. While we’re banning any talk of god can we also make people all drive a Toyota Yaris?
Thank god!
Eoin O Gormhaile Reading all comments and respect all As a regular mass goer i can say it is refreshing and clears my mind in a spiritual sense. The communal energy has a great positive effect. Yes, its an old story we listen to , in a land we have never visited but the feelings & tribulations of the humans involved are as real to ourselves to as it was 2000 years ago. Yes the alternatives are coming thick and fast. Its important to reflect on the good the catholic church has provided for the people in a practical and spiritual sense and that for me is definitely at a local level, not the politics of Romes bureaucy nor the actions of an evil minority whom should be punished by the rigours of justice Society works well with orginised religion , ask any guard. Yes the church as we know it requires change and i hope the wisdom and personalities make these asap. As for the future we should keep the link and give our childern a choice at an appropiate time A time when we need the ability to ask for help solice or just to say thank you to a higher source That form was given to us by our most cherished saint. This same message reflected today in the mix of celtic and christian customs we can be inheritantly proud of. Religion in this country has changed and it is no longer to be feared The doors are all open . EG
Never heard such BS in all my life
Iv no doubt your heart is in the right place and that you are a good person, but the evil minority you allude to are harbored and kept afloat by the silent majority, I wish more Catholics noticed this and left, if it does good it does a lot evil that’s not worth the hassle.
The church is just an institution and like any institution man made. If God exists (he doesn’t) than I think he wouldn’t be too worried about the clubhouse. Organised religion doesn’t work because faith is a personal and individual choice. Religion would work if it had one simple message “do good to others” unfortunately man cant be trusted to just leave it at that.
Christianity:
The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie can make you live forever and can talk to you telepathically from the heavens if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood and give him money all because a rib woman was convinced to eat from a magic tree by a talking snake.
The sooner everyone realizes its a a pack of bollocks the better
Well said Cora.
Cora, “Society works well with orginised religion”?
So the last 50 years in Northern Ireland with the organised religion of Christianity (who agreed with each other in 99% of their theology) worked well? You are joking? Tell that to the 3,000 who were murdered. Religion is nonsense. Nonsense is not the way to run a society. It COULDN’T possibly work better than the truth. The universe isn’t built that way. Nonsense=Bad.
Not suprised by any of the above
God still loves you all…how amazing is it to still love someone who hates you , rejects you and doesn’t believe in you
How do you know?
Well isn’t that a lovely thought. Here’s another one, how about we deal with the stuff that exists and move forward that and should a time arise when cloud man turns up he has my undivided attention I promise you.
No offence, but I find being told a magical beardy aul fella loves me a bit creepy. Tell him to stay away or I’m calling the fuzz.
Its the usual passive aggressive response used by worshippers, notice “hate” was used in her comment when it really didn’t need to be there. Atheists dont hate God, they just don’t believe he exists.
On the passive aggressiveness, some religious fanatics can be seen quite regularly useing the “God loves you” line or even the “I love you” line with a calm serene smile, but their eyes betray them, behind them pure hate.
They’re pretty defensive alright Mr Know It All! Must be that nagging doubt that many of them have at the back of their minds!
It totally is! They can always flagellate those doubts away later. What a great peace of mind it must be to have faith.
Do I sense a Cromwell?
Cromwell was a fundamentalist Christian.
What student is going to admit they have a faith or religious belief especially Christian in an environment where they would be openly ridiculed if not isolated? University campus is akin to the former USSR, what next if a person admits to being Catholic we’ll expel them & ensure their siblings are educated in hedge schools?
More then half claimed to be catholic (57.5%) and a total of 79% stated they either believe in god (37.5%) or are unsure (41.5%). Yeah, sounds like a really intolerant environment.
More than*
57.8% claimed to be catholic. Just for accuracy.
Yeah Marion, who would admit being christian in an anonymous survey? You do realise that most universities in this country still have a catholic ethos and students have access to chaplains and the like. Ridiculous, paranoid ramblings.
Eats, shits and leaves
Just wondering on the abortion issue, is this the same kind of questioning that ye all love giving YD abuse about? i.e. not giving them the option of whether it’s when the mothers life is at risk or on demand.
Something tells me the journal don’t care once they get the result they want to hear.
This kinda shows the need for proper Religious Education in Ireland. Young people need to be presented with unbiased aspects of faith and religion so they can make a choice of what the really believe. Diversity in society is always good, but we need to make sure that people are educated before making these choice.
As someone of identifies as a Catholic I still have a lot of questions about my faith, I think we something as complicated as religion those will always be there…
Fire away Sean. I’ll answer your questions to the point you cop on religion is just superstitious nonsense.
I believe in dynamo.
I love reading religious articles in the journal, just to see the spectrum of opinions. But I notice this word creeping up describing those who don’t believe in God as a freethinker. The term being used to undermine the intelligence and choice of people who do believe. I believe in God and i would also describe myself as a free thinker. The reason being that It is easier, and more popular now to have no belief in God whatsoever, thereby conforming with the majority. Countless times the rational basis of my beliefs have been ridiculed at parties etc, with the majority of people taking the opposing view. With popular literature such as “the god delusion” this has become easier than ever for people. however in my experience people rarely look at the other side of the argument and examine the rational basis for belief in God, or apply the same stringency to their own belief that they demand from believers. I respect people’s choices and objections, and its important that we discuss this.
Just wondering if Stalin has being re-incarnated & sent back to Ireland?
So defensive Marion! Don’t recall anybody saying they wanted to ban religion. People are quite entitled to question the existance of god though.
Stop this old talk Marion and lets have ourselves a good old multidenominational knee’s up.
God may have a hand on your ovaries, but he wont stop you from tickling those ivories.
Of course she’s defensive, those evil secularists and atheists are attacking her god given right to impose the teachings of her religion on the rest of us. The christians are the most oppressed minority in the world in her narrative.
What are you talking about Marion?
Marion is extremely fond of references to genocidal maniacs.. Perhaps they remind her of her god?
have your say