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Updated 3.30pm
FINE GAEL HAS said that a so-called ‘secret report’ which convinced Enda Kenny that the Seanad needed to be abolished was in fact published over three years ago.
The party was responding to a call by the DCU professor and Democracy Matters campaigner Gary Murphy in the Irish Indpendent today for the Taoiseach to publish a ‘secret report’ which is said to have convinced him to abolish the upper house.
Democracy Matters, which is advocating retention and reform of the Seanad, has confirmed that Murphy is writing to Kenny to ask him to publish the report.
A spokesperson for the group said that the report was alluded to by Fine Gael TD and deputy director of the party’s referendum campaign, Regina Doherty, in an interview last month.
But Fine Gael said that the ‘secret report’ is the ‘New Politics’ document that was published in March 2010 by future environment and local government minister Phil Hogan.
“Enda Kenny, as leader, was obviously given an advance copy of the ‘New Politics’ before it was published, and as you can see, this is where the proposal for Seanad abolition came from,” the spokesperson said.
The spokesperson said that Hogan would have been consulting with the Fine Gael leader as they formulated policy ideas and said that Kenny had access to “most or all of that information [contained in the New Politics document] well before publication”.
Kenny surprised many when he called for the abolition of the Seanad in his speech at the Fine Gael Presidential Dinner in October 2009, just months after he had argued for reforming the house.
Kenny said at the time that “our two-house Oireachtas is an odd man out in Europe” and in its ‘New Politics ‘ document the party pointed to Ireland being “significantly over-represented because of the Seanad” in comparison to Scandinavian countries and New Zealand.
The proposal later made it into Fine Gael’s 2011 general election manifesto and the programme for government which pledged to hold a referendum on “an number of urgent parliamentary reform issues” including abolition of the Seanad.
Speaking on Tonight with Vincent Browne on 15 July, Regina Doherty said: “He [the Taoiseach] is on record of saying that what happened after that was that himself and Phil Hogan took a piece of work, a report, a bit of information gathering during those six months between then and November when he did announce that he would put the referendum to the people.”
YouTube: RDinHD
Speaking to TheJournal.ie this afternoon Gary Murphy said that the public have a right to see why Kenny “changed his mind so substantially” but accepted there may not be a ‘secret report’ when Fine Gael’s comments – that there is a publicly available report outlining the Seanad abolition argument – were put to him.
“My view is that if Fine Gael say there is not a [secret] document, I’ll take them at their word, but clearly Regina Doherty did say there is such a document,” he said.
“He [Kenny] clearly said in July 2009 that he was in favour of a reformed Seanad, and he then said at the Fine Gael dinner two-and-a-half months later that he was in favour of abolishing the Seanad.
“If there is a document, we’d like to see it. If it doesn’t exist we’d happily take them at their word.”
Like politics? Then why not ‘Like’ TheJournal.ie Politics on Facebook to keep up to date with all that’s happening in and outside of Leinster House.
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American christian fundamentalists interfering in our affairs.
where exactly does the article talk about American christian fundamentalists interfering in our affairs ?
It’s well known that the American Christian right give substantial funding to the Irish anti-choice movement.
It’s common knowledge that the likes of Youth Defence are hugely funded from the US. Who do you think is donating if not Christian fundamentalists? Atheist liberals?
youth defense have a very big support base in Ireland , many professional workers contribute substantially to their kitty , and so they should , there a great bunch of lads and girls doing wonderful work in this country.
When you try to make a donation on the Youth Defence website it’s in US dollars via Truthtv.org, an American company, can’t ignore such facts when it suits
If there is one thing American christian fundamentalists like, its interfering in the affairs of others. That and bombing people in the middle east. As long as your a fetus your grand.
What good do they do?
and it’s well known Chuck Feeney US billionaire funds Irish pro abortion outfits.
Feeney is Irish-American, and it’s no secret where the funding comes from, he has invested over €600m in higher education in both Northern Ireland and the Republic, but as usual, anti-choice folk love to have a boogeyman, it’s like Chinese whispers. There is no evidence to suggest Feeney has provided any funding for pro-choice organisations, he has donated to the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, which encompasses all civil rights issues.
‘There (I assume you mean they’re?) a great bunch of lads doing wonderful work blah blah blah. You’ve shown yourself to be a troll so therefore no further communication necessary.
Judging by the lack of printed signs, funded events, national advertising, buses to take people to rallies, sound systems, giant tv screens and online ad campaigns, if I were Feeney I’d be asking serious questions about where the millions in prochoice funding is going.
I often wonder if Karl and the anti-choicers read back their obvious lies and realise how ridiculous they sound. I guess not.
Owned by Gaius.
Youth Defence are thugs. I witnessed them in Molesworth Street in 1983 get out of a van with Hurley sticks. They discredit the pro-life agenda and they are the incipience of a fascist movement in Ireland.
Threatening your fellow citizens is anti-democratic.
Peter, I’d be interested in hearing about your experiences that day. Please email, FB, Google, or Tweet me, if you’re happy to chat.
peter richardson says ” they are the incipience of a fascist movement in Ireland”
I think you’ll find peter that the only fascists at present monopolising the media (print and online) telling people what to do and how they should think are the pro abortionist / anti life brigade , sadly good people like youth defense are not allowed any coverage in the irish media , the same media which is supposed to be award winning for its openess but yet seeks to vilify anybody questioning the libertarian agenda or anybody questioning EU treaties at referendum times , these people are not allowed in the so called “new Ireland” media , however by keeping people down only serves to make them stronger as we’ve seen down through generations of Irish history.
On the contrary, I think you’ll find that the ones acting like fascists are Youth Defence, who are demanding that the government ignore supreme court judgements, and who insist on telling women what to do with their bodies.
Hardly a surprise
Hardly surprising.. The vast majority of the funding and support for the anti choice campaign comes from the states, and due to their actions they have a reputation for disrespecting people’s privacy and using sneaky tactics to push their agenda..
You just know that they did this in this specific manner knowing full well that there would be nothing anyone could do about it. Just like when they spam your Facebook news feed with their “sponsored” statuses and shoving their leaflets in your hand and telling rape victims that they were to blame for their attack..
Such a highly moral group eh?
It seems the so called pro life crowd don’t like you stating facts about how they get their funding
That’s fair enough, they’re entitled to not like it, it doesn’t change the facts.
As Geoffshorts has proven through analysing the following of these groups – most of their support is indeed American.
American Christian lobbyists have admitted that they contribute massively to the Irish anti choice campaign (and they do these call for them).
And their representatives make rather insensitive comments to rape victims such as the following:
https://m.facebook.com/notalwaysabetteroption/posts/570196166324049
If they don’t like that – perhaps they should move to change the campaigns tactics rather than just having an issue with the truth..
Couldn’t the authorities order phone companies to block incoming calls from the number?
Sure the number would change periodically but it might be a way to cut down on the annoyance and uphold some sort of law.
Not if it comes from voip. Number could change every day if they wanted.its only anti choice nonsense just ignore them and make sure you make your views heard
Desperate times need desperate measures. The anti-abortion zealots know their time is coming to a close.
Wow I’m shocked lol. Who would of thought those calls came from America. I thought Pro Life only got their funding from there.
But if the calls were”feigned from the United States” and “came fro across the Atlantic” does that not mean they came from Europe (or maybe Ireland)? Can Journalexplain?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t they need someone in Ireland to set up the Dublin landline through which the calls were routed? Can’t the Ireland-based accomplices be prosecuted? (if they exist)
Setting a phone number to divert its calls elsewhere isn’t a crime. That’s all the Irish person would have needed to do.
Well hopefully the regulations can be altered to include people who assist nuisance callers in the future. ARE YOU LISTENING COM REG?
Maybe you could try diverting your message to them? What if they dont see it here?
They’re ComReg. They see all on the internets.
Change the regulations and then who decides what is classified as a “nuisance call”?
Carl.
As someone who worked in the industry and is familiar with communications regulation I should inform you of the regulations surrounding unsolicited calls.
@Carl – Who decides what a nuisance call is? Well, all of the people who complain about getting them for a start. And I think what Shanti explained there has the definition pretty well covered.
Ultimately I see this as a good news story for the Pro-Choice side. The more people know about where the pro-lifers get their funding, the better. Hopefully more people will see that the web videos, print ads and robo-calls are just re-packaged foreign propaganda masquerading as the views of a non-existent Irish majority.
Agreed. Whoever runs their promotional arm should get their ass kicked. Between robo-calls, misleading poster ads they didn’t have image rights to, and spamming Facebook feeds they’re not exactly winning any friends which is brilliant frankly. Keep on keeping in YD.
I received one of these calls and was not impressed My views and opinions are my own and I certainly dont need a bunch of idiots trying to “convert” me Cant understand how someone in the U.S. can get my phone number when I am ex directory ….so much for privacy!!
Well said Anna Marie, That’s exactly what I’ve been wondering. I’m ex Directory too. I confirmed it with Vodafone this afternoon. That’s what needs investigating. How and who leaked our information to that group and what else did they get hold of, our direct debit details, our credit card numbers?
I sincerely hope that they do not have your details, if it is any consolation automated diallers can be set in different ways, some are simply going to call all numbers within a certain range, some will be connected and others won’t.
There are dialler systems which operate with specific details too, but I would imagine setting it to call all numbers from 100000-999999 with a specific prefix is much easier to program..
I dont see what the problem is , I got one and was more than happy to receive it unlike the FG/FF rubbish that comes in the letterbox
Would you prefer the Claire daly/boyd barrett version instead is it?
No , none of them , there all the same , europhiliacs to the core.
You may not have a problem with unsolicited voice-mail, but they have no right to bother us with their calls.
Do you like spam email as well?
One can only assume that you must think it’s fine to be spammed with nonsense you never requested.
If you’d like to give me your email address I’ll be happy to sign you up to more spam email,
After all you don’t see the problem with spam,
I get spam emails all the time like everyone else on the planet , its part of life , I’m not going to write an Article about it or kick up a big fuss .
So your excuse now is, it just happens and it’s part of life and sure isn’t a big deal.
Great, let’s not do anything about stuff that happens even if it’s illegal.
Your defense is a joke, get back under your rock.
But these calls aren’t illegal.
Well I’d love to know what Irish group are behind the Life Institute full page “pro-life” anti-legislation ads in the local media? Dungarvan Observer carried one today and I wonder if they’re in other papers too. These ads don’t come cheap.
Three quotes from obstetricians/psychiatrists from the hearings – wonder if they appreciate being linked to this dubious outfit, and also if the quotes out of context are truly representational?
Adoption arguments aside, I would consider this a legal loophole that should be closed up. If an identifying number accompanies a message (textual or voice), then the reciever should be entitled to consider that identifier as being true or accurate. This not being the case – where the identifier is apparently just supplied as a take-it-or-leave-it courtesy – leaves great room for misuse (think of phishing scams or stalking).
Understandably, where mass-messaging is concerned (eg. school texting services, or commercial ‘update’ services) then considerations would have to be made, but the ultimate originator of the message should surely be located within the same legal jurisdiction, and therefore subject to the same communication laws that apply to everyone else.
The Irish regulator should place every Irish phone number on the USA’s “Do Not Call” list.
It’s free and would mean that the USA government would be able to legally pursue these thugs in the future.
Wouldn’t these people be better off spending their time directing their energies towards campaigning to change the gun laws in the US
They’re the ones who are most intend on keeping their guns, the right wing christian fundamentalists are the most pro gun faction in the US, think tea party types! The same numpties are also trying to interfere in the abortion debate over here hence the dirty tricks, groups like youth defence are being funded by these right wing religious zealots who see it as their right to shoot living people but at the same time protect foetuses! Crazy people!
Whose phones are they targeting, is it random, or do they have confidential information which they are not entitled to use?? There’s the questions need answering.
And if I ever get some interfering God-bothering bible-thumping knobend phoning me, I will tell them in no uncertain terms to “feck off” and mind their own business. That’s harassment and it isn’t right.
Only it was a recording. Your F off would have literally landed on the same deaf ears as trying to reason with them in person..
As I said above, hopefully they don’t have actual info and merely set the dialler to call a range eg (01)100000 – (01) 9999999. But as you say it is rather important that we find out what method was used to select numbers to ensure there has not been a breach of confidence with a database here.
But Sean , I thought you Libertarian people had the philosophy that everyone is entitled to exert their rights even if it offends others.
Can I have your number so? I’d like to say some things to you!
@Freebies, I see you have complained about EU interference in Ireland, but don’t have any problem with US interference in Ireland, hypocritical methinks
hold on a minute . the article says nothing about US interference or anything else
Hang on Freebies, I think I have a bigger shovel in the shed
Try reading it again but with your eyes open this time.
#1 – I don’t ever remember professing to being a Libertarian. (Assuming this is directed at me, the only Seán in the comments).
#2 That is not what Libertarianism states. Freedom of speech and freedom of expression do not include actively harassing people on the phone via unsolicited calls. That is illegal.
So if someone wants to setup a stall in the middle of a city, and share their views where people have the option of coming over and listening – I’m all for it. But what I’m not for is illegal harassment over the phone. It’s clear you’re so warped, that you’re incapable of seeing the wrongness and illegality of spam phone calls.
seanie, how can you be harassed by a robotic message ??
Typical reaction from Irish nanny-staters something they don’t like and there has to be a government intervention or more rules and regulations. Ever hear of the concept of hanging up the phone? Not everything has to require some form of government intervention.
Carl.
These calls were received by people who had specifically requested no unsolicited calls, people who were ex directory and so their number should not have been available to unknown strangers, some people’s children answered the phone, some women who had had abortions for very personal and painful reasons were hit with these calls..
Carl, you know your right.
It’s a nanny state, we should allow abortions…. After all who is the state to tell us we can’t or to put rules in place?
Free choice for all women, down with the nanny state
Meh, can’t even take his “argument” remotely seriously: Carl’s a troll.
Barry , what does free choice actually mean , am I free to go out and take someone elses life without being imprisoned ? no , therefore why should you want to make an exception for a woman to do just that
I just clicked off the receiver. I was not called again. Of course it is wrong that these robocalls are made but they are counterproductive.
Drone attacks are legal too. Careful
Professor Eamon O’Dwyer is linked in a number of articles on Youth Defence website, including the following
http://www.youthdefence.ie/latest-news/major-medical-symposium-in-dublin-concludes-that-abortion-is-not-medically-necessary-to-save-the-life-of-a-mother/
The calls were traced to a company called Parenthood USA – a Pro Life campaign group. Interestingly in their news section they mention that Professor Eamon O’Dwyer was the lead spokesman at a Youth Defence-organised conference at which Professor Eamon O’Dwyer made the comments used in the phone message
http://www.personhoodusa.com/news
Interestingly as well there is another link between Youth Defence & Parenthood USA – Keith Mason from Personhood USA and Dr. Eoghan de Faoite chairperson of Youth Defence attended a conference in Portugal as 2 of the 10 worldwide Pro Life organisions involved in the Pro Life referendum in 2012
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/global-pro-life-summit-attracts-media-attention-to-portugal-pro-life-refere/
The Irish contigent apparently “shared their cutting-edge pro-life strategies to educate the public on abortion”.
Good to know you can get around Irish law if you just commit the crime from another country where it is not illegal.
have your say