Rita I assume by making such a comment you are a person of faith, and prehaps you can’t cognitively reconcile some people deplore organised religion particular the Catholic Church for its crimes against humanity.

Maybe you feel so insecure about your faith you need to make disgraceful comments of that nature now I will invite you to apologise and withdraw that comment as it is offensive to me personally and it may well be offensive to people who actually had mental physical and sexual abuse .

You have an opportunity to show a bit of decency and class I suggest you take it.
If you want to challenge my comments or views do so in an intellectual intelligent way maybe with a pinch of banter but please don’t resort to such a pathetic level.

Sincerely JPS

Whenever James replies to my posts, and I find myself on the brink of doing the unthinkable and actually responding to such hatred, I simply draw back and have a cup of tea.

Stephen hatred? I simply question following blindly without a shred of evidence dogmatic beliefs of any religion. The fact the church has a track record of crimes against humanity is still to a degree supported only shows the effects of trans-generational beliefs.
Stephen it’s ok Horus forgives you :)

What did Rita say?

Now Stephen Mc Elligott accuses me of hatred lol! The following is taken directly off his blog now see who promotes hatred

Stephen’s own words
You know, not speaking for all atheists, but most of them I have met have had bad relationships with their fathers and so the idea of God being a loving Father is repulsive to them. Its very much a pshychological thing.

Yet back to the counter cultural. So yes we are living in a new generation of angry kids being fed spoonfuls of bad medicine that perpetuates the disease that somehow the church is the norm when in fact it is atheism, egoism, secularism, gay pride and so on that is the norm. It is Jesus Christ, His Church and Her teachings that is counter cultural, that are the very pill that will dissolve all their problems and wrong perceptions of reality.

If you want to rebel, become Catholic and rebel against evil which is the norm not against good whose voice is rarely echoed in the mainstream.

Christianity……the true rebellion since 33AD

( Stephen you hypocritical pious clown)

Rita implied I must have been abused because she didnt agree with my post

Ha ha James you know you’re doing bad when Stephen is on the receiving end of all the green thumbs and it’s all red for you.

Very true ping pong! But the old saying goes don’t argue with an idiot.He will drag you down to his level and beat you on experience.

James Patrick. In fairness to Stephen your posts to him are full of hatred and you taunt him a lot. Its quite disturbing actually.. I think Stephen shows a lot of calm and restrainst by not responding.

Fair play Stephen.

@Sinead you get disturbed because I challenge the ridiculous pious crap that Stephen post’s on the Journal? That’s your issue to deal with so.

Yes he is entitled to his opinion but equally if he puts it on a public forum and sprouts in my opinion ridiculous deluded nonsense I have as much right to comment on it as the next person.

Just look at the hatred in his blog and tell me that doesn’t disturb you more.
Stephen doesn’t respond because he would be obliterated in an intellectual debate on religion, he just got pissy because his bigotry on his blog got exposed.

James was that kind of the tone from steps comments?

James Patrick. I just find your posts to Stephen very dark and angry. The tone and the language and how you address him.

Stephen comes across as a very calm person and maybe a little eccentric. However you seem angry all the time. And you direct a lot of that anger at Stephen. But thats what the Internet Athiests do isnt it. Trawl the net lookin for forums on religion to vent their anger.

Why dont ya have a cup of tea like Stephen does?

@Sinead thanks for the professional psychological profile. I’m on the Journal I comment on various articles and I challenge religious dogmatic nonsense. Some agree some don’t thats fine with me.

Stephen is more than a bit eccentric and my comments to him probably are a little bit goading but his comments are pious and condescending.

I personally have a disdain for organised man made religion and the nonsense it teaches but just because I have a disdain on one topic doesn’t mean it is a personality trait in my character.I am open to an exchange of ideas on any topic with anyone at anytime.

I will take a rain check on the tea as I don’t drink it :)

James, the faith heads and vaticanos will always accuse of hatred or insanity if you question their philosophy?…..after all they do have god on their side ;-)

Shut up joe. You’re the most vicious of the all!

the Journal is becoming well known as being very anti catholic.
but let the haters & bigots keep trolling away.
they are just showing themselves up for what they are.

p.s. James Patrick Smith. some of your comments would not be out of place in 1930′s Germany.
when you constantly rant on about hatred, bigotry intolerance etc – you might also want to consider taking a good look in the mirror.

He is a bigot & religious intolerant. Reminds me of the Northern sectarianists.

USSR propaganda machine maybe rusty but still in action.

Oliver Cromwell’s predessor

Disdain just exposes how intolerant you actually are.

Compared to the lads running the Vatican im a Saint. Zoe sorry I don’t believe what you do.I have said many times I agree with freedom of religion provided it doesn’t promote hate like the US Evangelical Christians or Radical Islam and once religion doesn’t break the laws of the land.

But Religion does interfere in the laws of our country and I personally take issue with that.Now let’s see you have basically called me a Nazi.

Im independent in regards of political view, I welcome cultural integration, I respect different races and don’t believe one is better than another, we are all human beings and are afforded the same rights none is superior.I would prefer a secular society while protecting private religious beliefs within the law and I believe scientific education will be more beneficial than pious old hypocritical books.

I believe women have the right to decide on whats best for them and as a straight man I have no objection to gay and lesbian rights once it is consenting adults.I just believe in one less God than you and I know human morality predates any Holy text.Now if im a Nazi it’s news to me.

You are a saint? And there I thought you were jus a heap of meat, stuck together with a life force of some sort, that would just rot to nothing in a few years.

Hi James , Joe looks like the Vatican supporters are out in force these days . Suppose it makes a change as their normally out on the streets causing a nuisance by campaigning for the denial of human rights to Irish citizens.

Stephen, please enlighten me. What makes him such a great pope? This is not a taunt, I would just like to know why you think that.

Scarasm Kevin

Zoe still bangin on with the hatred mantra I see. How’s that working out for you ?

I reason you’re a bunch of cowards because if you really hated organised religion that much you’d outside churches every Sunday making all the people know how you feel but sure it’s a lot easier to be the big man on the Internet. Init?

*reckon…. Feckin auto correct

Maybe you’re the coward, ping pong. If you really feel so strongly about how us non-sheep should spend our time, then instead of saying it on the net, and making yourself a hypocrite, why aren’t you coming round and knocking on all our doors to tell us?

Beabad bishop, yet again commenting on a catholic church story, Jesus you really are obsessed with it !! :D

What’s your address? Coming home on Friday, I could knock up Saturday if you like. And besides I’m not the hate manger here.

Great! Bring your bible – I need to prop up a dodgy table leg.
What’s a hate manger? Is that were Jesus was born?

Monger and for your information I’m not religious in the slightest. I just let people get on with their lives whatever way they see fit but what I do have great faith in is you lot are a bunch of spineless cowards.

If opposing the evil that is Catholicism makes us cowards in your eyes, you are free to think that. You think people shouldn’t voice their opinions about anything unless its positive, or what?

When do you go down to a church to voice your opinions? Exactly….never. i.e. spineless coward!

I stay out of churches as much as possible. Whenever a religious person accosts me on the street, however, I give them an earful. I love how you’re so fascinated by this supposed cowardice of the non believers.

And I think you’re the one who should be going to church. You’re a hypocrite – you’d fit right in there.

Pot kettle James , but of course your obsessed with me .

James your a sharp one A for observation . Lucky you told me. And here’s me thinking I hardly comment on the RCC at all.

Full of piss pong

But Stephen didn’t you hear the church loves homosexuals also . How does that work out for you ? Still hating gays ?

Beabad, you are obsessed with the RCC, & trolling here,
yes, the RCC has done much wrong, – but it has also done a lot of good in society as well
its getting a bit sad at this stage,
do you have any other interests in life apart from this?

Thanks for noticing Zoe I left a comment for you else where. Ah you find it sad that I consistently submit posts on articles about the church . its true i’m as prolific in my criticism of it as you are in its defence. LIke I GAF what you think about me. It’s none of your business what my other interests are. It is indeed sad but not nearly as sad and miserable as the thousands of other people who through no fault of their own had their lives destroyed by the church you love so much. The thousand who will never have peace because of the perpetual mental anguish they carry after being abused by the hands of paedophilic clerics and vicious nuns.

I’m gonna tweet him now! – 1 new convert if you dance Gangnam Shtyle!!!

So Paddy are you saying all those people were worshipping the pope?

No I’m afraid I counted him as one of the 3.7, wouldn’t you know?

3.7 million people went to a beach on a sunny day to see the world’s only infallible human being? Where were the other 186 million Brazillians?

There will only be 50 thousand Dubliners in Croke Park tomorrow, where are the other 1 million?
Silly argument really.

@Paddy Maybe I am stuck in a time warp but you and I are not that different. There are around 2700 registered practiced religions in the world today. You think 2699 have it wrong and I’m just one more than you.

You think that God invented the world and us and then told us to worship him. I believe that this couldn’t be the actions of a divine creator . Your Church thinks God made 200 billion galaxies each with over a billion stars just for us and them took the time to come back and proclaim his dislike of homosexuals. I believe this just couldn’t be true.

I don’t believe that blind faith is a virtue and many other virtues religions promote but I don’t mind if you do.

Not believing in one of the 2700 options does not make me a bad person or mean I hold no beliefs. I just choose not to support the same team you do especially as God was absent when his teachers were up to no good.

I wish you well.

Niall

@ Niall McKeown
There are indeed many faiths in the world. I’m catholic myself. Christians make up 1/3 of the total population, the largest grouping, and Catholics are the majority of this group. Atheists are just above 1/50 of the total.
It is a little presumptuous to place such weight on one’s own deductions, on God’s reasoning.
If I might state again, the church has exactly the same love for homosexuals as it does for heterosexuals. Neither Christ or the Church, ever expressed a “dislike” for homosexuals. I even know some homosexual men who are good practicing Catholics.
I myself would never assume you are either a good or bad person. But good general advice would be, to seek out truth and beauty; and see what you’ll find.

It’s not only a silly argument Paddy its a stupid one. That’s why I can’t understand why 3.7 million peoplegathering on a hot day on a beach is so significant for you. Millions of Brazilians stayed well away from Francisco and kept their children even further away from him that day

@ Dean Anderson
I’m sure you’re happy with your own logic.
This group on the beach were the youth of the catholic world. It speaks a multitude. Most people worldwide are more than interested in their children finding what the church offers, truth and beauty, and a way to a virtuous life. That is why Rory found such opposition to giving over the catholic ethos found in so many of our schools.

Paddy. Seriously. You’re a grown man. Time to put the fairy tales to rest and indulge in a bit of common sense, no?

@ FreeThinker
The most striking characteristics of common sense, is how rare it is. To believe those galaxies sprung into existence from nothing, takes s lot more imagination than an intelligent creator. But of course the problem with believing in a god, is it lowers one’s own pedestal.

Indeed paddy is a grown man. And he seems sensible and happy with his lot. He has life experience and I am sure he knows what works for himself and his family by now. He has the grace of God and you cannot ask for more than that.

Hi Paddy bet your itchin to get into heaven . Over the half way mark now I’d say. Not too much sand left in the timer before ya meet the big fella eh.

@ Beabad Bishop
It’s true, I’m at least half cooked, but I’m not the assuming kind. Ive learned a little too much about human nature, to be arrogant about my own future.
But I’ll let you into a big secret; this hyper sexualized culture is the fast track to a miserable life. The Christians existence is far more fulfilling and enjoyable. The contraceptive, abortive, culture of death, is miserable, anti family, and anti happiness.

Paddy, I don’t believe the Big Bang theory. I think it’s very likely to be possible, but without proof I can’t say for certain, now can I? Nope.

Sinead, how do you know he has the grace of god? How exactly do you know?

Hmm. Something weird happened to my reply to Paddy. I’ll write it again.

Paddy, I don’t BELIEVE the Big Bang theory. I think it’s a very good theory, and quite likely to be true, but I can’t say with 100% certainty that its true. How can I, without undeniable proof?

I find the creation theory laughable and pathetic, however. It is utter tripe. If god appeared to me and proved himself, undeniably, I’d believe in him. But he hasn’t, and he won’t, because he’s a work of fiction. Are you seriously telling me that you believe Eve came from Adam’s rib? You know if you’d been born earlier in history in this country then you’d be practicing Druidism or some form of Paganism, yeah? Or if you’d been born to an Indian family, you’d be practising Hinduism or Islam?

The difference between the Big Bang theory and creationism, is that science has facts. Quite a lot of them. These facts make the Big Bang theory easier to swallow than your fairy tale book, which was designed as nothing more than a tool of enslavement through guilt and fear.

You say that common sense is rare, an I would agree with you. There are quite a few of you Catholics, and there’s not a thimbleful of the stuff between the lot of you.

@ FreeThinker
I found it very helpful that you double posted, because you said different things both times.
In your original post your standard was, ” If god showed himself to me, I’d believe in him”, but in your repost you say ” If god appeared to me and proved himself, undeniably, I’d believe in him.” So as you say, not only would god have to appear to you, but as his omnipotence is insufficient in itself as proof; he would then have to win an argument with you, before you’d believe. This position is indeed significant, as it indicates clearly, you believe your intellect is godlike, even if this is enigmatic as you would then have to not believe in yourself.
For me, I believe by faith, but this faith is backed by reason. I have never been disappointed when I acted in faith, in Christ. This experience of faith, builds faith. But when a person never even finds that ladder of faith, because they see themselves as It; I can only weep. Locked in a loop of self.
The vast majority of undisturbed tribes, deduced the existence of something greater than themselves. It takes a modern man to be willing to redefine the proof of gods existence, so as not to disturb his exercise of licence.

Hi paddy its good to see you have the same love for heterosexuals as you do for homosexuals. That very progressive.

It obviously works for you Paddy and makes you happy . However I don’t share your belief Christianity is the only answer to happy living for humanity . I’m sure many of the billions of non Christians would agree with me.
If i had to choose a belief system to be happy I believe Buddhism leaves Christianity in the dark .

@ Beabad Bishop
Homosexuals have suffered from much injustice in many areas over the decades, and that was humanity wide. But there has been much progress. In the course of that progress the power of equality, and applied human rights have been successfully applied.
The danger we now face in humanity is that agendas within the gay community, the extreme liberals, or the radical feminists, progressively generate new perceived rights to further their radical agendas. The aim by some to destroy marriage for instance, is nothing more than the manipulation of emotion and “rights”, to further a cause destructive to civilization. Communism failed to destroy family, lets hope the radicals in the gay lobby will not succeed, where they failed.
I would like to see more leadership in the gay community standing up for institutions which serve society.

Ah so your love for homosexuals is conditional then paddy . You only love them so long as they don’t seek the same rights as heterosexuals. Some conspiracy theory thinking going on there . you believe homosexuals will destroy humanity if their allowed to marry. I don’t buy it Paddy. If even that were the case why would you be bothered sure you’d be upstairs with the big fella by then, living it up in total euphoria delighted you never married a fella when you were on earth.

Paddy, such a typical sheep answer. I double posted because the first post i made only actually came out as a couple of words. I take it the full body of what I posted showed up in your email, however. As for the word “undeniably”, well I thought I had used the word in the first post. Is it unreasonable to ask for undeniable proof? Not in the form of an argument – I mean a miracle, some undeniable show of power or magic that only a “god” would be capable of.

You ignored the rest of the post, conveniently for you. And no, I do not think I have a godlike intellect. I don’t believe in any gods, therefore it’s impossible for me to have it. I’m just a human being. I happen to have more common sense than you, that’s all.

Why are all the tribes that preceded Christianity all wrong, but your story is correct? Pretty arrogant, no? Where’s your proof? Faith is an utterly, utterly stupid concept.

@ Beabad Bishop
Sorry, I cant obliged you. Just because someone is engaged in agendas, contrary to what I believe is the public good; and they are pronouncing living a lifestyle which I personally would disagree with; that won’t stop me loving them as my fellow human being. Loving someone demands that we be honest with them.
I believe redefining marriage in a way that weakens family, and changes the emphasis off of the children and exclusively onto the emotional (variable) relationship between any two adults; devoid of gender balance, is a disaster for humankind, and family structures in particular.

Please do tell how two married homosexuals weakens marriage Or the “family”? I just can’t see how it does .

@ FreeThinker
If “The Lamb of God” is a title suitable for Christ, calling me a sheep is indeed s great honour, thank you.
As for the miracle they are all around you, not to mention in the mirror, but you suffer from the blindness of the unbeliever. For the unbeliever no proof is sufficient, for the believer no proof is demanded.
My point for including the tribes was to demonstrate that the natural position for humans is to believe in the transcendent.
In relation to your intellect, if you don’t believe in god, then you become the highest order, the god. I’m convincued that my mere intellect could never make something from nothing, so I bow to superior Knowledge.

@ Beabad Bishop
I did make the key points in my last post to you.

You didn’t explain your point Very well Paddy. Nor did you supply any proof that through marriage homosexuals could or would destroy humanity. You’ve made outlandish claims and have absolutely no proof that the marriage of homosexuals is detrimental to the family or society.

Paddy, you can’t claim that miracles are “all around me”. That’s just your perception of nature. There is no proof that anything on Earth is of divine design. Which is where faith comes into play. Let me ask you: what about the starving millions in Africa, who have all been converted to Catholicism? Why do they continue to starve, continue to die agonising, slow deaths? What good have the churches that have been built there do? My father, while working in Africa, has seen just how much good they’ve done. There are lavish, expensive churches, where all the poor hopefuls go to pray and are shamed into giving extortionate amounts of their extremely hard earned money to the collection plate. God has done nothing for these people, even though they have been tricked into faith. The church has brought nothing but false hope and a golden begging cup.

As for me thinking I’m the highest order of intelligence… I don’t think that at all. I think it’s very likely that far more intelligent races of beings exist in the cosmos. Oh but wait, god made the ENTIRE Universe and only bothered to put life on one planet!

You say that for the unbeliever, no proof is sufficient. What a load of twaddle. ANY proof would be sufficient. Proof is proof! You have none with which to convince me.

Paddy has either given up or he’s racking his brain trying to figure out how to answer you free thinker. Interesting that Paddy “loves” homosexuals yet would deny them the right to prove their monogamy through marriage. His whole obsession with the sexual activities between consenting adults is quite disturbing .

Paddy,
we can all agree that the RCC has done much wrong,
But it has done alot that is good & constructive in society as well. – My own family received tremendous help & consolation from the church, at a difficult time for them.
the trolls here have not the slightest interest in recognising any form of balance.
Like you I too have tried to comment in a constructive & fair way. But I completely wasting my time.
They are only interested in trolling & hatred, – & ‘the Journal’ seems to have provided a nice little outlet for this.
To be honest the vast majority are not worth engaging with, or replying to.
I have often read your comments. They are always thoughtful, courteous & respectful. I agree that the church has received much criticism, ( & sometimes deservedly so) but I think that ultimately it will survive in Ireland.
It will probably be a very different church, to the one of our parents & grandparents though. It will probably be a lot smaller & made up of laypeople who are committed to their faith.
best wishes Paddy, & don’t pay too much heed to the trolls!
regards, Zoe

Zoe. Of course we are more concerned with the evil acts that have been done in the name of Catholicism, than we are of the good deeds.

Good deeds are done by people all over the world, regardless of their faith or non faith. You don’t need god to do good things. You just need a conscience.

The church should be 100% honest, being an establishment of god, should it not? (Let’s ignore the fact that your god said NOT to construct churches)
So yes, while your local parish might be full of friendly, generous, helpful people, who would do their best to help you, we cannot ignore those in power, those pulling the strings, those who commit the most evil of acts. If the church really was a godly place, and if god really existed, then absolutely NO evil would be able to exist there, or be perpetrated by those within it’s ranks. It is a rotten, dirty, organisation of lies. How is this so?

The average church going person is, I’m sure, a decent person. Their only crime is that of gullibility, which leads to them spreading the disease further.

Believe whatever you like, but if you post on a public forum about this stuff, you shouldn’t be surprised when people who don’t agree with your beliefs, through the use of logic and reason, respond in turn. You can’t expect us to keep quiet about the child rape, theft, murders and lies, just because there are some decent people in the catholic herd. What about justice? Or should we leave that up to god, eh?

Zoe so nice that your family had such a good experience with the church unfortunately that experience has closed your mind to the evil crimes of the church hierarchy . Good works don’t cancel bad ones I’m afraid . I’m interested to know what do you think is worse the fact that clerics raped , beat and abused tiny children or that their superiors who knew of their crimes covered them up and in many cases helped them to commit more crimes by moving them to different parishes ? Of all the thousands of survivors of institutional abuse in Ireland not one has had a letter of apology from any senior members of the church on behalf of the church for the unforgivable crimes visited upon them. Not one single meaningful apology . The church cares more for its errant clerics than it has ever for the tiny children whose lives they destroyed. None of this is relevant to you Zoe is it ? You had a good experience what care would you have for the victims/survivors who have led a life of misery .

So Dami you know most priests and nuns personally do you. Most of the ones I met never did F..k all for society except pray. I’m sorry just because you pray a lot and claim to be holy doesn’t make you a better human being than anyone else.

Beabad bishop, why not just keep quiet about your silly little opinions about the churches clergy and faithful, the majority of us are not all that bad believe it or not !! You seem to bash the faithful EVERY time a story comes up ? And yet you hate the church ? Why not just pretend it doesn’t exist, therefore banishing it from your miserable little life :D

Of course James I’m going to do you exactly what you tell me . I think not.
Members of the Roman Catholic Church raped and tortured members if my family when they were innocent young defenceless children. They used fear and extreme psychological manipulation to guarantee their silence for most if their lives . If that wasn’t bad enough they escaped public exposer and prosecution thanks to the collusion of the Irish state and senior hierarchy of the RCC.If what happened to my family were isolated cases were a once off event then your church might have a defence . However they were not once off ! many thousands of children were raped internationally by many thousands of clerics for many decades if not centuries. The hierarchy of the RCC was complicit in those crimes by cover up , denial and facilitation . So in short James Stuff you if you think I will stop being critical or pointing out the truths about your church .

James if you think for one second I’m going to stop posting about the church
Then your deluded. I will never stop exposing that vile organisation for what it has done as long as justice has been denied to the victims and survivors.
If that makes me miserable in your eyes
So f€&king be it.

In the Information Age ignorance is a choice . Whose blaming everyone? Whose attacking every priest ? I have every right to be critical of the RCC . I have never lied about it and anything that has been said about it is true. I do not hate decent honest people no matter what their position priest or pheasant . However when people try to sell the RCC as some paradigm of virtue then that has to be challenged.
The facts about the Hierarchy of the RCC are all out there . Pointing out the facts and telling the truth is hardly hatred. However this is the tactic employed by church defenders they accuse me and others like me of hatred
When I tell the truth . I would argue that they are the ones full of hatred and anger . Hatred for the truth and angry against those that tell it because they know and their afraid it makes their church crumble before the eyes of humanity.

You appear to be saying you will only challenge the church when it is being cast as virtuous “I do not hate decent honest people no matter what the position priest or pheasant. However when people try to sell the RCC as some paradigm of virtue then that has to be challenged” So why are you launching an assault against a light hearted picture of the pope in a selfie?

The selfie is irrelevant I couldn’t care less about the article .

I DO :)