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THE CONVENTION ON the Constitution will today discuss extending the vote in Presidential elections to Irish citizens resident outside the State.
The recommendations of the convention will then be reported to Government who will decide if a referendum should be held on the matter.
The meeting will take place in a Dublin hotel today and tomorrow with members of the Irish communities in Australian, Germany, France, USA and Canada taking part by way of video link.
It is estimated that there are 1.2 million Irish citizens living outside the state with a further 1.8 million Irish citizens resident in Northern Ireland.The Central Statistics Office is due to make a presentation at the convention detailing its latest breakdown of Irish citizens abroad.
Northern Ireland
Part of the debate will focus on the position of those Irish citizens in Northern Ireland and the impact of a possible extension of the franchise to citizens there for Irish Presidential elections. The convention will hear the views of MLA members and a number of lecturer’s from Queen’s University Belfast.
As preparation for today’s meeting the convention sought the views of Irish diaspora by way of an online questionnaire with responses being received from a total of 64 countries. Convention chairman Tom Arnold said the response demonstrated the far-reaching implications of the motion being debated:
This is an extremely important matter that has evoked a passionate response from Irish citizens currently living in all corners of the world. The response has been phenomenal and the fact that we had replies from 64 counties goes to show the geographical reach of the Irish diaspora.
The government will respond to the convention’s recommendations within four months by way of debates in the Oireachtas.
Proceedings from the Convention will be live streamed on the Constitutional Convention’s website.
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Recently returned Irish male after a 6 year stint outside Ireland – I would agree with voting rights for presidential elections, a very small limited number of TDs (as low as 2-3) and referenda that relate to circumstances that relate to them, but that should be it.
People living outside the land where laws are applied, should not be able to force their views on other people who it will mainly affect. Otherwise it’s voting without consequence.
bollox, people on the outside have a clearer view of what’s going on than those of us on the inside.
Give the vote to everyone abroad.
John, I live outside Ireland at the moment but send 80% of my salary back to the country, for my wife and children to buy food, fuel and pay indirect taxes. I and a lot of other people like me should have the right to vote in all elections as although we may be thousands of miles away, what the government does effects us.
I see your point, very valid, but I disagree you should vote for the following reasons:
If we granted you the vote, we would need to extend it to voters in The North (huge numbers per article). Majority of the laws the TDs they would elect vote on won’t affect them.
We would also need to grant the vote to every child & grandchild of Irish emigrants around the world, some of whom never set foot in Ireland, who get an Irish passport to help with travelling to Europe. They would have as much say as you do. This accounts for a huge number. Granted most probably won’t vote, but exact numbers won’t be known.
It’s sadly all or nothing – we can’t sell our votes just because you send money home. Yes you are closely tied to Ireland, but allowing you to vote and not others is not legally possible.
John, why would folk in The North need to be given the vote ? At this time they are citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, not the Republic of Ireland.
All of our families and friends abroad should have a vote in all elections in this country.
The civil servants and governments are shit scared of people abroad voting sinn fein
They might be worried about the inevitable economic collapse that would follow.
Having a leader who knows what VAT is would improve credibility.
What do mickey martin and edna Kenny know about economics? Jack Shit, that’s what.
Economic policies have always been civil servant policies in this country, if people can’t see that then I suggest tearing yereselves away from the soaps and the tabloids.
I would vote Sinn from in the morning once they got rid of the dictator Gerry the grey.
Ireland would end up like Iraq and Syria having a dictator that won’t let go.
You need too step down Gerry and let new blood have a try.
‘Ireland would end up like Iraq and Syria ‘
you mean like, partitioned, broke and rudderless?
Presidential elections there might be a case..but General Elections, certainly not…
aahh jimmy, sinn fein will be in power regardless…………..
If only we had a Senate which could incorporate the views of those not represented by mainstream Dail parties…oh wait, the insiders and idiots are about to kill off that as a possibility.
Nothing to do with Sinn Fein Dalai…I don’t see why you should vote for a government in a country where you are not bound by its laws. Its voting without accountability in my books.
Interrsting the way you said SF will be “in power” no matter what. That’s what its all about for SF…”power” at all costs…lower the voting age so we can manipulate the youth…give everyone voting rights so we can massage their green tinted views of the motherland….no mate, SF will never be ” in power”…the electorate see them for what they are…wolves
So would I.
Depends if these people plan to come back. Not to sure if I like the idea of people who no longer live in Ireland having a say in how it’s run.
Or like similar to the French where they have 1-2 tds/mps that represent people abroad.
As someone who has lived abroad as well, I think people who pay their taxes in other countries should not be entitled to vote in Irish elections. That would mean that if you are living abroad, you can vote as long as you file your tax returns with the Irish revenue, and make up the difference if your local tax burden is less than the Irish one. I don’t mind extending the franchise for the presidential election, as that role is largely symbolic. But people who have to live with the policies of a government on a day to day basis should be the only one who vote for that government.
Colin, In the case of Michael Kelleher, above, his family live in Ireland and spend 80% of his salary here, thereby contributing to the tax take. Different to people who have actually left the country.
The only people who should be able to vote while living abroad are members of the defense forces and diplomats anyone else is just voting with out consequence.
Northern Irish citizens could vote in elections for president of the Republic?
There is that all important magic word ” Irish “
No – Martin McGuinness proved an anomaly when he ran for president but could not vote for himself.
Mary McAleese couldn’t vote for herself in 1997 but she was elected. The proposal is that we should facilitate Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland and elsewhere to vote in presidential elections.
I dont think those who live outside the jurisdiction should have a vote. Unless taxes are paid, the franchise should not be extended. Whatever about Irish that emigrated, what taxes do N.I. residents pay to Dublin?
Are the powers granted to the president being discussed. All well and good extending the vote to those living abroad, but would be better if the president had some power
Why not make it based on residency of citizens rather than citizenship? For example, if you have been resident for 3 out of the last 10 years you can vote in some elections. I live abroad and for referendums would like to vote. The Generation Emigration have a right to have a say in what type of country they come back to. Also, maintaining that tie may bring more back eventually.
My mother’s American and so I have US citizenship. I voted in the last 2 US presidential elections but haven’t voted in an Irish election or referendum since I left 4 years ago. The act of voting in an election from abroad does make you connect with that country. I’ll always be Irish but when I voted for Obama I felt a little bit American.
Kate, do Americans have to pay tax in America as well as the country they are in? I think one of my clients mentioned she pays tax in the US as well, I could be wrong.
You have to declare taxes if you have assets in the US. I don’t so I don’t declare anything.
In order to vote in Presidential elections and in referendums, one must only be an Irish citizen aged 18 years or over and resident within (the Republic of) Ireland. Such a voter does not require an Irish passport, merely an entitlement to one.
Extending the franchise to ‘Irish citizens’ overseas would automatically entitle all persons born in Northern Ireland to vote, regardless of their nationality, religion or politics. This would mean that British Citizens of Northern Ireland would be entitled to vote, even if they had no intention of becoming Irish citizens.
Meanwhile, British citizens (born outside of NI) resident in (the Republic of) Ireland would not be entitled to vote.
President refers ‘rushed’ asylum Bill to Council of State
Higgins understood to be concerned about speed of Bill’s passage through Oireachtas
Wed, Dec 23, 2015, 21:01 Updated: Wed, Dec 23, 2015, 22:17
Sarah Bardon
President Michael D Higgins said he has called a meeting of the Council of State for December 29th next to examine whether provisions under the International Protection Bill were “repugnant to the Constitution”. File photograph: Frank Miller/The Irish Times
President Michael D Higgins has called a meeting of the Council of State to consider legislation reforming the asylum application system amid claims that it was rushed through the Oireachtas without proper scrutiny.
This is only the second time Mr Higgins has asked council to meet, the first being for the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill.
In a significant display of Áras frustration with the Government’s guillotining of Bills, Mr Higgins has asked the council to meet on December 29th to examine whether three sections of the International Protection Bill are repugnant to the Constitution.
The President is said to be extremely concerned at the guillotine imposed on the legislation, which meant there was limited debate on its provisions in the Dáil and Seanad. Mr Higgins will now ask the Council of State to consider whether three aspects of the Bill are repugnant to the Constitution.
Seeking asylum
The provisions to be examined regard the definition of the family under sections 56 and 57; the rights of children to have refugee status; and whether section 78 prevents people from seeking asylum in the State.
It is understood that the President’s biggest concern is an apparent redefinition of the family in the Bill.
The Áras has been asked to consider 40 Bills in the first 11 months of this year. In the past three weeks, it has had to consider 26 bills, highlighting the raft of legislation which has passed through the Oireachtas since the beginning of this month.There are 13 bills awaiting the President’s signature.
Labour TD Michael McNamara said the Mr Higgins decision was a result of the legislation not being properly scrutinised.
Mr McNamara, who was ejected from the Dáil last week for opposing the guillotine on the Bill, said: “This legislation was not examined in a meaningful way. It is farcical that the Council of State is now examining a Bill that the Dáil passed but did not examine in a meaningful way.
“The only voices that appear to matter are the Cabinet’s and they decided a guillotine should be implemented because they didn’t have the confidence to debate it.”
Mr McNamara said the Department of Justice and Minister Frances Fitzgerald wanted to silence debate on this legislation.
The Government says the Bill will bring Ireland’s asylum application procedures into line with other European states by reducing the length of time that applicants spend awaiting a decision.
However, several organisations including the Irish Refugee Council have said the new law could see asylum seekers being swiftly deported after a “cursory examination of their applications”.
Speaking in advance of the meeting, Council of State member and activist Ruairí McKiernan welcomed the President’s announcement.
Rushed through
“The Christmas story is one of ‘no room at the inn’ so the meeting is very relevant for the times we’re in and the values we stand for – worth considering by us all in the coming days,” he said. “Europe faces the greatest refugee crisis since the second World War and it is vital that Ireland is doing all it can and doing so with respect to human rights.”
Mr McKiernan said the Bill was rushed through the Dáil and Seanad by Fine Gael and Labour, with the support of Fianna Fáil.“It was done so in an anti-democratic manner that didn’t allow proper time, debate or consideration for the many concerns expressed about the effects of the proposed legislation,” he said.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/president-refers-rushed-asylum-bill-to-council-of-state-1.2476725
The current Irish set-up for voting shows what a complete and utter bags a country will make of itself when it has a skewed, inward-looking electorate. Only ourselves, Greece and Portugal have stopped giving citizens a fair vote #fail
President refers ‘rushed’ asylum Bill to Council of State
Higgins understood to be concerned about speed of Bill’s passage through Oireachtas
Wed, Dec 23, 2015, 21:01 Updated: Wed, Dec 23, 2015, 22:17
Sarah Bardon
President Michael D Higgins said he has called a meeting of the Council of State for December 29th next to examine whether provisions under the International Protection Bill were “repugnant to the Constitution”. File photograph: Frank Miller/The Irish Times
President Michael D Higgins has called a meeting of the Council of State to consider legislation reforming the asylum application system amid claims that it was rushed through the Oireachtas without proper scrutiny.
This is only the second time Mr Higgins has asked council to meet, the first being for the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill.
In a significant display of Áras frustration with the Government’s guillotining of Bills, Mr Higgins has asked the council to meet on December 29th to examine whether three sections of the International Protection Bill are repugnant to the Constitution.
The President is said to be extremely concerned at the guillotine imposed on the legislation, which meant there was limited debate on its provisions in the Dáil and Seanad. Mr Higgins will now ask the Council of State to consider whether three aspects of the Bill are repugnant to the Constitution.
Seeking asylum
The provisions to be examined regard the definition of the family under sections 56 and 57; the rights of children to have refugee status; and whether section 78 prevents people from seeking asylum in the State.
It is understood that the President’s biggest concern is an apparent redefinition of the family in the Bill.
The Áras has been asked to consider 40 Bills in the first 11 months of this year. In the past three weeks, it has had to consider 26 bills, highlighting the raft of legislation which has passed through the Oireachtas since the beginning of this month.There are 13 bills awaiting the President’s signature.
Labour TD Michael McNamara said the Mr Higgins decision was a result of the legislation not being properly scrutinised.
Mr McNamara, who was ejected from the Dáil last week for opposing the guillotine on the Bill, said: “This legislation was not examined in a meaningful way. It is farcical that the Council of State is now examining a Bill that the Dáil passed but did not examine in a meaningful way.
“The only voices that appear to matter are the Cabinet’s and they decided a guillotine should be implemented because they didn’t have the confidence to debate it.”
Mr McNamara said the Department of Justice and Minister Frances Fitzgerald wanted to silence debate on this legislation.
The Government says the Bill will bring Ireland’s asylum application procedures into line with other European states by reducing the length of time that applicants spend awaiting a decision.
However, several organisations including the Irish Refugee Council have said the new law could see asylum seekers being swiftly deported after a “cursory examination of their applications”.
Speaking in advance of the meeting, Council of State member and activist Ruairí McKiernan welcomed the President’s announcement.
Rushed through
“The Christmas story is one of ‘no room at the inn’ so the meeting is very relevant for the times we’re in and the values we stand for – worth considering by us all in the coming days,” he said. “Europe faces the greatest refugee crisis since the second World War and it is vital that Ireland is doing all it can and doing so with respect to human rights.”
Mr McKiernan said the Bill was rushed through the Dáil and Seanad by Fine Gael and Labour, with the support of Fianna Fáil.“It was done so in an anti-democratic manner that didn’t allow proper time, debate or consideration for the many concerns expressed about the effects of the proposed legislation,” he said.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/president-refers-rushed-asylum-bill-to-council-of-state-1.2476725
Still patriarchy reigns with country boundaries and boundaries in the minds of people.
At Bru Na Boinne the Law of ONE is there for all to see We are all born children of the Universe and yet our system over thousands of years has enabled us to regress back to divide and rule mentality.
The debate above is a perfect example because patriarchs know some will agree and some disagree and it keeps the people and their minds divided. So the only winners are the patriarchs whom we are signing away our power to.
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