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A NEW POLL published this morning shows that the Seanad referendum is set to pass on Friday but over a fifth of voters are still undecided as to how they will vote.
The Ipsos MRBI poll in today’s Times shows that when undecided voters are excluded then 62 per cent of voters back abolition while 38 per cent are against.
The poll of 1,000 adults carried out late last week shows that when undecideds are included 44 per cent back abolition, 27 per cent want the Seanad retained. 21 per cent don’t know and 8 per cent will not vote.
The result is similar to a Millward Brown poll published in the Sunday Independent yesterday in which there were also a large number of undecided voters.
Those polled for the Irish Times were asked their reasons for voting in a particular way with 43 per cent saying the main reason to favour abolition is the money-saving argument.
The cost of the Seanad and how much will be saved by its abolition has been one of the most contentious issues of the campaign with the No campaign disputing Fine Gael claims that scrapping the upper house will save €20 million per year.
Another Fine Gael argument, that abolition will mean fewer politicians, has support from only 8 per cent of Yes voters. A fifth of those voting No said their main reason was that they do not trust or like the government.
The poll also asked voters about the Court of Appeal referendum with a massive 44 per cent undecided on how they will vote.
When these are excluded 76 per cent back the establishment of the new court at the level between the High Court and the Supreme Court.
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Ask yourself why Enda is afraid to debate this. If he doesn’t believe in it why should anyone else. Would david Cameron or Obama get away with not debating getting rid of the lords or the senate without debating it. Vote No.
Before the 2010 election there was never any televised debate required in the UK. Also Obama has never gone on television to debate Obama care or gun control.
Not saying Kenny is right, but your examples are flawed.
I reckon Enda’s PR team won’t let him debate this incase he f#cks it up…
He has debated obamacare on tv during the last election and nobody is asking for the 2nd amendment to be repealed in gov. The British might be coming!!!!! As for debates only being on tv since 2010 that may be here but what’s the point in un inventing the wheel. We’re talking about getting rid of one of the 3 pillars of our democracy. Not a policy.
Explain what the Seanad does.
Anything this government backs the people should vote No as a matter of principle ….. They don’t care about us !
Read the blue book.
I know and neither do Sinn Fein. It’s a depressing circle.
Oh I know what it does. I am asking you to tell me, seeing as you are advocating a preference for voting.
Seriously fella. Grow up…… This isn’t history for first years. I’ve no problem explaining my no vote. It’s simple. FG lied about the €20M saving and still lie now. If anyone has to lie to push through a vote then you have to vote against the lie. Let alone the systems are not in place to replace the Seanad. We don’t have strong local gov like other small nations. Then there is the 529 amendments made this dail term by Seanad. Would they have been made without the process in place now. No. It’s common sense to vote no.
Well in future, please leave reasons for the masses to read before advocating a vote.
Going forward try posting from a real account. Stop hiding behind an egg. It totally undermines any thoughts you might have. #justsaying
Ken the debale thing is pure farce stuff!! Its would become about the debale itself and whether Mr Martin or Mr Kenny won the debate… In truth who cares?? This decision is not about either of them.. Make your mind up and don’t be waiting on any bs debate on tv…
Kenny has got spot on in my regard..
Then why did Enda have a public meeting on this last week then ban reporters from recording it. Did he morph into Chairman Kenny in his last trip to Beijing.
For God sake Kev, all this bs about Kenny being some sort of Dictator… Its pathetic….
Its not about Enda Kenny… Do your research and make your own mind up… stop using this to have a go at Kenny.. its not relavant to the ref…
When was the last time a Taoiseach debated something on TV outside of election time? I can’t think of one.
Can’t stop. He makes it so easy for me. Are you ok with him not allowing reporters to record what he says? Really simple question.
Sorry. Sorry. Really shouldn’t question our great all powerful leader. All hail heir Kenny.
I’m not really bothered what he says or how much it saves Kev. I think the Seanad is one step above useless, is surplus to requirements so I’ll be voting to get rid. Pretty simple decision for me really.
The abortion debate in the Seanad, the quality of which was woeful helped make my mind up.
Agreed Reg. After watching numerous tv feeds from the Seanad over the last year my mind was made up very quickly. It should be listed under comedy shows on RTE.
That’s fair enough Reg. Do you think the 500 odd amendments made so far in this Dail would have been made by whipped committees. Do you trust the 4 decision makers in gov to get it right with no second look at bills. Or do you trust a future Charles Haughy. If you do then vote yes. If for any of those you think no then you really have a decision to make.
if your not sure vote no.the fact that enda wants you to vote yes should be enough to deter you.
Voting no, because you’re not sure is an incredibly dumb argument. If you’re not sure, get informed or don’t vote.
Yes Bob that’s the kind of thinking a 5 year old would use! Educate yourselves and then vote. You don’t need to watch a debate where personalities become the issue either.
I know which way and why.but giving the keys of the house to enda without abolishing the whip is madness.
As are Sinn Fein.
There is nothing ‘incredibly dumb’ about voting no if you’re not sure. In fact, it is the only logical way to vote if one feels unsure about the issues. Considering it is a constitutional matter, the Taoiseach has failed miserably in his duty to defend his stated position on abolishing the Seanad. That is grounds for resistance, and certainly grounds for refusal to engage with absent leadership.
Your argument seems to be to vote yes or don’t vote, which assumes you are a Yes voter. Now that’s pretty ignorant and dictatorial.
The Seanad is one part of the Oireachtas, the system which underpins our democracy. Removing it concentrates too much power in fewer and fewer hands.
I suggest you educate yourself first Ariana before having the ignorance to demean others’ constitutional, nay democratic imperative.
Liam you talk like a Senator !
Ariana the reason you vote no if you don’t know is simple. Look at it this way. If you have a car and you look under the bonet and see wires, just because you don’t know what they do doesn’t mean that you get rid of them. I do agree with you when you say to educate yourself then cast your vote, but not everybody will.
If FF want to reform they can propose a new Seanad in a future referendum and we can vote on that.
Reform is not on offer the choice is keep the dysfunctional Seanad or abolish.
Or to put it your way keep your broken car or get rid of it, not an option of fix it.
Since a broken car doesn’t do any good but still costs money I would choose to get rid of it.
Liam,
I suggest that you have just demeaned Enda Kenny in your last comment?? Also displayed plenty of ignornace so maybe cut Ariana some slack!!
D
It’s not fit for purpose as it is now but if it is abolished they will never be reinstated. Reform not abolish.
What if you are sure and informed and want to vote NO.
I never said you vote yes or don’t vote. If you know how you want to vote, and that happens to be no, then vote no.
If you don’t know
Don’t vote
Duh !
if you did know and and understood it what would you do ?
not vote
I fail to see how? Can you point to how I demeaned Enda Kenny? I never called him names or used anything vulgar.
Declan, go back and read how Ariana called people who vote no because they feel uniformed “incredibly dumb”. These are the only denigrating remarks put forward in either of our statements.
I did, however, voice my opinion about the dangers of concentrating power in too few hands, which I feel the abolition of the Seanad may facilitate.
How have I demeaned Enda Kenny? Be a big boy now and back up your accusation…but you can’t, cos I didn’t.
Finally, how is it you wish me to “Cut Ariana some slack”? This is an open forum. I merely disagreed with her approach and her language. I merely ‘mirrored’ her behaviour, helping her to understand the impact of such vulgar and prejudiced language.
So, in conclusion, if you feel I was hard on Ariana, you should begin by helping Ariana, by advising her not to throw insults at broad sections of people. Instruct and aid her in what proper, respectful language should be used in a debate. Start there Declan.
When you’re finished with that, come back to me and then I will instruct you, with no prejudice, on the dangers of making sweeping unsupported statements and playing very, very small violins on behalf of a Prime Minister, who as I previously stated, has failed in terms of leadership and responsibility to show the rigour of his critique and the validity of his argument concerning the abolition of one of the core organs of the State.
Once I have helped you to understand all this, I will then point you back to your original comment of ‘suggestion’. I will help in every way for you to overcome to sense of inadequacy and silliness that you will no doubt by then feel.
I wish good day, God speed and a slippery slope
Regards,
A Pretty Handsome Huskey
I wish. Look lads, you don’t vote to remove a safety check, no matter how much in need of reform.
You stand your ground and demand reform. Reform, reform, reform. We need a second house of representatives.
The price of everything (€20 million I heard thrown around) and the value of nothing. …….. Democracy is not a balance sheet.
I’d be very interested to see what the breakdown in demographics is for the Yes/No vote.
I personally only know one person planning to vote Yes to abolishing and am constantly surprised by the poll results.
Same here. I don’t know one person voting yes. But I’d say the overall turnout will be very low, unfortunately.
You need to get out more so.
Correct Eric!! I sense a smell of propaganda in this story
I think you will find the results of the poll are from a much wider demographic than maybe your circle of friends. The ref will pass…. And other than giving the 2 fingers to the Goverment I can’t think of any reason else why someone would vote to retain it??
Journal Astroturfing again.
Once again people seem to believe that the majority opinion on the journal reflects that of broader Irish society, which is never does, thankfully!!!
It’s a pity that one of the main reasons for voting yes is apparently to save money. Do people usually vote based on something that is not proven?
I am not doubting the validity of the responses but I do wonder if the poll is based on an even distribution of the population or if it is skewed towards likely voters?
Like I said above almost every person I’ve spoken to intends to vote No, I’m middle class with a third level education. Would it be fair to say that a lower level of education my result in a less interest in politics and therefore less engagement on the debates, therefore more likely to believe the disputed claims in the €20 million in savings (the most common reason for voting yes).
However it is fair to say that this grouping is less likely to vote. Pensioners are the grouping that votes in the highest percentage, I’d be interested to know the breakdown of their intentions.
@Eric You, like myself are in an obvious No shewed demographic, and are, i reckon to be in the minority. As ever, it will come down to the mobilisation of older citizens who are convinced by the flawed money saving argument and are unlikely to see the reasons for a no vote. Also, the uneducated socialist argument of undemocratic elitism will hole water in more working class areas.
It’s a shame but I can;t see anything but both amendments passing. Thats probably the most damning indictment of this countries electorate, that a few populist soundbites is enough to swing a referendum campaign.
Hopefully people don’t fall for the trap of Vote No and Reform it! That’s not going to happen.
15 reports since 1937 on Seanad Reform saying what should be done to change the upper house, none have been implemented. FF the only party wanting to hold onto it, have used it as a springboard to the Dáil or a retirement home for their loyal servants. Of Kenny’s 11 nominees 6 of them were independents, that’s more than all 25 previous years…. COMBINED! Zappone & Quinn have a very shoddy bill on reform and having looked at it.. not much will change: The Taoiseach’s Nominees will stay in place, the way the senators are elected will stay in place, the vocational panels & the total lack of power they possess will stay in place.
VOTE NO THIS FRIDAY TO KEEP THE SEANAD AS IT IS… A talking shop for failed politicians or those hoping to advance their careers!
What is the point of spoiling your vote? Your message won’t get across to anyone, Enda doesn’t care what you have to say!
If you’re planning on not voting, how about not whinging about the government after when you could have made a difference.
Get informed and vote.
I don’t think this is one of the most important issue in Ireland today,More importantly and again we have a government not listening to the people, taxing homes hitting the sick and vulnerable with cuts, and a leader hiding from questions and accountability.
I’m voting no , my main reason is the possibility of the reference of Bills to the people by the president will also be removed from the constitution, The power to refer bills to the people will belong to the Dail alone. The Dail alone will have the power to pass national emergency laws and to decide if a national emergency exists. Mass demonstrations against the government (should they ever happen) could be classed as a national emergency. Shatter already has the power to close down the internet and all mobile networks, this extra power and their control over RTE could portray any mass demonstration as subversive. With the EU set to begin the first official steps to Federal EU in the next three weeks the less power the gov has in this regard the better.
Martin, the power of the president to refer a bill to the people has never been used. If the Seanad stays then it is extremely unlikely that it would ever be used either.
@Reg Whether it has ever been used or not is not the issue, we are in a new era and who knows what is waiting around the corner for this country and the fact is that it is a power that will no longer be available to the people should it be required. That and the power to declare a state of emergency would be in the hands of Kenny, Noonan, Shatter and Gilmore the same guys that prove week in week out that they do not represent the people but rather their own interests the interests of the Banks and the interests of the people in Europe pulling their strings.
Reg I have an old rope upstairs I put there for use of in an emergency (fire). Never used it, doesn’t mean I’ll be throwing it out though.
But you have more chance of a fire than the president ever referring a bill to referendum Kerry. Needs a majority in the Seanad and a third of the Dail remember.
Currently there is the option to refer if this referendum is passed that option is removed for ever Reg.
And what difference will that make Kerry. Never been used or likely to be used. The president can’t just refer a bill to referendum because he feels like it.
I think it is important, to Kenny. They have planned ahead on this one, Kenny has something up his sleeve other than ” it will save €20 million per year “. This budget is going to hurt again, but no pain to a government filling their own pockets with state money, while anyone who ever worked in gov. kicked out or not, is still costing millions through so called pensions. This game of looking after themselves first, should be reformed. First term in gov should give them 1yr pension, second term maybe 5yr pension. This way they might work for the people rather than lose the obscene pensions. No government has ever been worth a lifetime of payments. No citizen has ever been asked what ministers and TDs should be paid. It is a secret society when it comes to wages, pensions and perks. I also think if anyone is really undecided on this ref. then vote no.
Vote No let us demand reform!!!
Your team had their chance.
Regardless of your clear FF leanings, surely you are not naive enough to actually believe that should this referendum be rejected that there will be any attempts made to reform or inprove the Seanad? Also,should Martin et al find their way back to power in the next general election I can guarantee reform if the Seanad will not be high on his priority list.
Another Kick in the nuts Oliver… Looks like ye backed the wrong side again!!! And go on with bs about real change and reform… FF thought they could win this and used it to boost popularity ahead of the local elections… no other reason… Real Change… Getting rid of it is real change….
I do accept while Fianna Fáil were in government they failed to deal with it as did all governments, but i think there is a desire now and it’s widely accepted that reform of our political system is needed and any government who ignores that will suffer at the polls. I don’t accept your accersion that if MM was Taoiseach he would ignore reform he has said its one of his number one priorities along with education and health, we have published documents on political reform!!!
Oliver Mr Martin wanted publicity and attention…Full stop.. He does not even fully agree with Seanad himself…and deep down i reckon you dont either… It backfired… Just move on
Oliver you endless naivety does give me a regular giggle. Thanks for that
@Declan if Fianna Fáil was chasing the populist vote they would be doing what SF are doing trying to abolish it not saving it and to reform it!!!! SF are masters at populism
Everyone is voting no that I know this poll is just yes side propaganda
Everyone I know is voting yes. I don’t know anyone who is voting no.
This will be a sad day for Ireland. A government that lied its way into office is now lying its way to the biggest erosion of our democracy in history. Please please people read up on this referendum and do the necessary research! Vote No!!!
Incorrect…
Two questions:
1) lional how is it the biggest erosion of democracy?
2) dealing Define incorrect please?
If anyone told me Declan is/was a politician I would believe them.
Can someone explain to me the logic in removing the only people who can block some of the absolute bulls#it that comes out of the Dail..? The fact that Fine Gael refer to it as elitism makes me laugh.. The money these prats in government make is elitism in its highest form.. In any other job you’d be sacked for being so bad at it.. Government and banking seem to be the only professions were you get rewarded for it… In my opinion..
They have no real power, they cannot block a bill from becoming law only delay it! In the case of Money Bills they can only dispute these are Money Bills, the Seanad has no power! Good riddance I say, I’m more interested in the court of appeal!
We always have the option to give them power. Give them different term lengths so we have the possibility of different parties having majorities in either house and swinging against eachother. You know, so real debate can happen, rather than just electing a party in for a term and letting them run with it unquestioned.
I’d even propose a third house of independents (seeing as they’re useless in the dáil system). No upper or lower houses, just equal houses forced to work together.
Temporary representative dictatorship is overrated. The inefficiency of freedom is beautiful!
Not a bad idea Colm… (great name btw)
It is very simple. If you are undecided, you must vote “NO”.
It is depressing to see the parochial ignorance of most voters here coming to the fore. It will be a Yes by a strong margin sadly.
I get depressed in equal measure Seanie reading the comments on here….. The odd funny one but in general Depressing dross
If you are undecided then get informed and make a decision one way or the other. Many people in this country don’t deserve a vote if they can’t be bothered to educate themselves on the issues.
I wish it was that simple Reg.
Alan why can’t it be that simple?
Question What role did the Senate play to help prevent the banking crash ?
Answers on the back of a stamp accepted,
If we’re using that logic then the same can be applied to the cabinet, Dail, president and county councils.
Voting away the Seanad is akin to voting away one of the pillars of our democracy.
It definitely needs reform, as does the Dail, but handing the keys of the shop to Enda whilst the whip system is allowed seems ludicrous !!!
Your NO vote allows the system to be reformed at some point, your YES vote just gives a muppet govt. even more concentrated power.
Remember …
“Power corrupts and absolute power, corrupts absolutely!!!
AGREED! Divided power is the essence of democracy! Even though the seanad in it’s current form is bad, the idea that further centralising power in the hands of the dáil could some kind of reformist move strikes me as wrong…
This is all very sad. We have no faith in our institutions but the parties aren’t rallying for reform, just abolition. Worse, those eschewing the possibility of reform with a Yes vote are ceding even more power to the Cabinet.
Removing the Seanad concentrates more power and less debate into the Gang of 4 Ministers. Remember, we have less local political power than most countries and a whip system in Govt that demonstrably punishes dissent with expulsion. Currently, the Dáil has effectively no use for debate.
So if you want to remove the Seanad on the basis that it can’t be transformed into something more useful, make sure you understand what will remain.
Also, consider the implications for the future when a Govt less “cuddly” than FG/Lab is in power.
Fidellma health eames is enough to vote yes
David Norris taking out his Fanny is another.
If you’re not sure ask yourself ‘where was the Seanad this day five years ago?’ And vote yes accordingly
What about the dail, where have they been over the last ten years?
Where was the Dáil 5 years ago? Where was Fine Gael 5 years ago?
The Seanad at least has an excuse because it’s structure is the result of successive Governments treating it in the way it did. Our elected representatives have no such excuse.
A strange way of reporting this story, don’t tell anyone what percentage of those polled are undecided, just say what the answer is when they are excluded.
44% are undecided about the courts referendum, is it the same figure for the Seanad referendum?
Based on my own observations, 90% of those that follow the articles in The Journal oppose the referendum for various reasons, while a commanding 100% of the people that I have spoken with over the last three weeks have not mentioned the referendum at all.
This could turn out to be the lowest electoral turnout ever in the history of democracy in this bedraggled country.
That would be a pity, because it is only through mass expressions of public anger and disgust at the behavior of this government that would get the possibility of anyone in there listening to what the people are saying.
Send out the message to this government, we are sick of your lies and will vote no to everything you propose until you show that the citizens of Ireland matter more than foreign banks in the decisions that you make.
Thanks for the update folks.
Garry this Government have no interest in listening to the people. If its a low turn out the spin will be bad weather or some other excuse. They have had two and a half years to listen to the people but still keep cutting and cutting all the while feathering their own nests. Dail bar, Enda wont debate, Phil Hogan doing what he wants, O’Reilly making a shambles of the health system, mass emigration. The list goes on and on. Kenny and his ministers don’t care about us.
Voting yes is a vote for Enda Kenny NO thanks.
Only 1% of the population have a vote in seanad elections, it is based on the educational achievement of citizens who have graduated from a select number of universities.it always has an inbuilt government majority and has never stopped any legislation passing in the Dail it can slow it up ok but thats it.It is and always will be another part of a government majority,The vote is not about reform, reform is not a option in the ballot.FF were the worst abusers of putting their buddies in the seanad .Before he left office Bertie A. Appointed 11 of his buddies or their spouses to the seanad. they sat in seanad for 1 day, got 5000 euro each for their efforts and have free parking and use of leinster house for life.
The Seanad is the puppet of the government it’s like having your house guarded by the thieves pet dog , you wonder why it doesn’t bite the hand that feeds?
A yes vote doesn’t just rid of the thief’s dog, it leaves all the windows and doors wide open and sticks a 10 foot neon sign outside the door saying “Please rob me. Thanks very much”.
It’ll pass alright.. But only because we want an end to a defunct institution and not because Enda tells us to. The real test for Kenny will be to local and European elections next year…won’t be as smug and arrogant then.
Ah he will though.
@tony skillington , enda and the rest of the cabinet won’t give 2 figs about the local or european elections next year, or the general election the year after(if they hold out that long) the have their pensions and ‘dissapointment ‘ money to look forward to, not one of them will ever have to worry about paying the property tax or water rates, or any of the other ‘austerity measures’ they impossed upon the country, they’ll be living in clover while the rest of us struggle. abolish the seaned? abolish the bloody lot would be a better job!
Fully agree with you..
I feel a bit of propaganda going on here !! Wonder why !! Mmmmm
And why do you sense propaganda??
i think everyone should use their vote im votin no but would like the it reformed and members voted in by the ordinary people of ireland who pay their wages;its a bbig no from me
We need to abolish Enda Kenny and Fine Gael!
Welcome to the world of dictatorship !!! No thanks …..,,,,Vote No
I’ll spoil my vote with a lovely poem for Enda
He won’t read it.
Why not just vote “NO” and give Enda a bloody nose?
It’s your only real opportunity to give the weasel a kick in the nuts – this side of the general election anyway.
@Dave Murray.
Using your vote in that way is nonsensical.
.. It is not the use, but the abuse that is one of the weaknesses in democracy.
Perhaps there should be a qualification process to be able to vote and continue to vote.
So Dave, you advocate a no vote on the basis of giving Enda Kenny a bloody nose. This country has never been asked on whether the Seanad should be saved or scrapped before and is unlikely to be asked again any time soon. It is awful to think that decisions about or democracy are entrusted to enlightened thinkers like you. Vote on the merits of the question, not on your dislike for who might be proposing it. You have plenty of opportunity to give a bloody nose to whoever you like at local and general elections.
I’m voting No in this referendum because i believe that it is for the national good . Choosing to vote that way because you want to bloody Enda’s nose only shows that you do not have the intelligence to have a reasoned vote but are a man child.
Yes, I would like to see Enda Kenny get a bloody nose .
…but my main reason for voting “No” is as follows:
If Enda Kenny cannot agree to debate this very piece of legislation change that he is promoting, how do we know that he won’t refuse to debate other future pieces of legislation in the Dáil if the Seanad is abolished? [i.e. can we trust Enda to be democratic in future proposed legislative changes?]
There is a trust issue here and I don’t think the Dáil [with Enda Kenny at the helm] is trustworthy in its current form.
What Toaiseach has ever done TV debates outside of elections Dave? I can’t think of one.
Whatever people decide to vote and for whatever reason at least Enda Kenny has given the people an opportunity to vote on the issue, nobody ever did so before. And at the end of the day, the people will decide, not Enda Kenny.
If, and I believe it should, the Seanad survives the vote perhaps it might set about doing more for the people of ireland. However like the Lisbon vote if it doesn’t pass will they just run it again until they get the answer they want? (They being the ever present 3rd party).
No it won’t. This is a once in a lifetime chance to vote on whether the Seanad stays or goes.
How do you know it wouldn’t be put forward again?
Very unlikely to be given a simple Yes/No choice again Stephen. If there is a no vote this time and a government if the future introduces reforms then it is more than likely that another referendum would be required to make the proposed reforms to the constitution.
They tell us we will never have reform, but they are wrong. If we keep it in (because a bicamarel system fosters comprise) eventually the archaic and elitist system will have to be reformed. We are in control, we just forget it sometimes. We can always negotiate and we can always object. They of course don’t want a real two house system, because one elected by the people at a different interval to Dáil elections could compromise their monopoly on power.
Can’t help but feel that the mechanism of democracy is being dismantled by the current political generation in favour of “strong government” and passing on leadership to the european powers. I fear that by the time my generation get in we will have to struggle a great deal just to run our own affairs.
There is a bill going through the Seanad at the moment that will make it illegal to smoke in a car if there is a child in it. This is one of many important bills and if you get rid of the Seanad you get rid of the bills.
It’s an interesting example, but I think all bills will just pass through the dáil from now on. We’re not getting rid of them.
On Friday Oct 4th 2013 we are being asked to Vote in a referendum that involves changing our constitution in order to remove the ‘Seanad’, an arm of our democratic system.
There is no doubt that the Seanad as it exists is not fit for purpose in today’s political atmosphere – and that is why it needs to be reformed and not abolished.
Remember we aren’t being given the right to vote for reform and that for a start is undemocratic.
A No vote will ensure reform of our political system a Yes vote will give the Government supreme control over our destiny.
The Yes campaign has some very valid points but they have also engaged in very dishonest campaign messages.
There are consequences for changing our constitution, there are so many amendments required and when you interfere with a complex legal document the consequences can be damaging to our rights as citizens.
I urge voters to consider the follow points before making your decision on how you vote this Friday
This referendum is not about political parties or individuals, this referendum is about how we Citizens wish to protect our rights and how much power we would like the Government of the day to have.
It is our democracy and we should cherish and protect it, our constitution has served us well as modern Republic in regards to our rights, let’s not throw it away on the whim of a pet project for those who haven’t put enough thought into the consequences for democracy into the future.
.
A YES vote could be considered as a power grab for the following reasons and only NO vote can stop it.
The following points would be the consequences of abolishing the Seanad.
• Remove from our Constitution all-parliamentary checks and balances.
• Remove from our President power to refer legislation to the vote of the people under Article 27.
• Amend Article 29 to give power to the Dail alone without any referendum to surrender our EU veto on corporate tax and other matters, over-ride constitutional protections, introduce EU criminal law and cross border policing, and allow the Dail over-ride our Constitution under the guise of “enhanced EU cooperation”
• Give Governments with a majority like this one power to remove independent judges by a vote of a single chamber
• Repeal Article 28.7 which enables non-TD outside experts to be Ministers
• Prevent anyone in Northern Ireland like Gordon Wilson, Seamus Mallon and Brid Rogers from being a member of our parliament
• Prevent emigrants having any voice in our parliament
• Concentrate all power in the hands of Government which controls the Dail through the draconian whip system, including speaking rights of TDs
• Give Dail whips absolute power to decide what Bills will be debated, and what Bills will be guillotined through with little or no debate
• Prevent for ever reform of the Seanad to give every citizen, wherever they live, an equal, single vote for a gender-balanced chamber as proposed in the Seanad Reform Bill which can be enacted now without any referendum if we vote No
• Delete 7 entire articles and leave the rest of our Constitution a disfigured wreck
Why on earth would we do this? they gave us Two bogus “reasons” are on the glossy posters that cost €5 a throw.
First, “Save €20 million”. Second, have “fewer politicians”. The “Save €20 million” claim is exposed as a con job. We need better politicians, not “fewer politicians”. They’re welshing on their pledge to cut TDs by twenty.
This referendum is costing us €14 million now. Absolutely nothing will be “saved” in 2013, 2014 and 2015, if we vote Yes. The Seanad will be kept for the duration of the “austerity period”.
In that period, Dail parties will pocket €40 million and unelected special political advisors will pocket €10 million.
In three years, after austerity, the only “savings” would be €1.60 per person in Ireland per year (the price of a container of milk)!
If we give them absolute power we know what to expect – absolute power corrupts absolutely. Vote NO.
“Fewer politicians is no substitute for better politics”
Sounds good bye bye to all the failed politicians and cronies
If the Seanad is abolished the Dáil will have complete control of legislation in this country. In the Dáil the cabinet make the decisions and the Government vote them through. Then it is up to the Seanad to debate the bill. Without the Seanad, the cabinet will dictate future legislation. We need a reformed Seanad not a unicameral parliament.
If you want to protect the rights of everybody and make sure the political winds do not shift into a tyranny of the majority: bicameral parliament is by far the best idea.
Vote No on Friday
Or, in other words, would you trust Enda Kenny, the leader of the Dáil, to make unilateral decisions with the brute force of his party whip [without proper debate, or no debate at all] when the Seanad is gone?
There going to make 40+ changes to the constitution while they have a constitutional convention on going. Joined up thinking
When you see the likes of SF jumping into bed with FG, you know something is not right, hope they have a condom on, for better protection best to Vote NO.
SF did explain they would like to have seen 3 choices on the polling paper, no.3 reform.
Irish democracy can be bought for €20m, are we that short sighted or is it that we are quick to forget
I’ll certainly be voting no. If they get away with this it will be the last bit of reform we see and we need much more
These pols must be costing fg a fortune all going their way lately
Did ye ever see 2 more stupid apes in a photo like the 2 above
Reg why don’t you show your face I’m sure you are as intelligent as the clown in the photo you keep showing us.
have your say