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Column Raising animals for food contributes to climate change

On World Vegetarian Day, Frank Armstrong asks why we refuse to see the relationship between farm animals and climate change.

ENGLISH WRITER AND activist George Monbiot wrote an article recently opposing a campaign to turn England’s Lake District into a World Heritage site. He says we should not celebrate a landscape where ‘the forests that once covered them have been reduced by the white plague to bare rock and bowling green’; by the “white plague” he means sheep which have devoured the woodland native to this site.

He dismisses the description of “a harmonious development of interactions between people and their environment” cited by supporters, despite his admiration for Romantic poets like Wordsworth who eulogized that landscape. He argues convincingly that: ‘Farming has done more extensive damage to wildlife and habitats than all the factories ever built’.

This reminded me of an exchange I had in the Burren in County Clare last year with an environmentalist friend who spoke in glowing terms of the interaction there between pastoral farmers practising transhumance and the craterous landscape which has given rise to a variety of flora not observed in other locations.

But for much of the Burren, summit vegetation is deciduous forest, of which little remains due to centuries of pastoral farming. At least a small cluster of hazel trees lie around a grotto associated with Saint Colman, and one can see why the holy man sought the sheltered space below the canopy for prayer and contemplation. Alas, in most of the Burren hazel saplings are removed to make way for cattle, ensuring the landscape remains desolate.

An environmental blind spot

It seems there is little to distinguish between the damage wrought by pastoral farming in the Lake District, and its impact on the Burren. Indeed, despite a reputation for being a wild landscape the island of Ireland has actually experienced extreme modification to its natural habitats since the arrival of human farming. Prior to this the island was almost entirely wooded with climax vegetation of elm/hazel oak/hazel and pine in upland regions.

According to Frank Mitchell in Reading the Irish Landscape: ‘from about five thousand years ago when the first tree-felling axes made woodland clearance possible man’s hands have borne down ever more heavily on the Irish landscape’. Insatiable demand for fresh grazing lands in particular left us with a mere 12 per cent of our woodland by the 1400s.

It seems to me there is a blind spot among environmentalist who harp on about the dangers of climate change but fail to acknowledge the hugely important contribution of domesticated animals. A 2009 study by Goodland and Anhang found this responsible for a shocking 51 per cent of anthropogenic global greenhouse gases emitted, far more than the 18 per cent estimated in the 2003 UN report Livestock’s Long Shadow. Reducing global livestock numbers would be far simpler than converting to a renewable energy infrastructure which would take at least 20 years and cost $18 trillion to develop according to former environmental advisor to the World Bank Dr Robert Goodland.

The government’s recent Climate Change Bill 2013 targets an 80 per cent reduction in emissions by 2050. This would leave total annual emissions at 11 million tonnes of carbon equivalent. But agriculture alone currently accounts for 19 million tonnes. That means with everything else reduced to zero, we would still need to substantially reduce the national herd. Unlike cars, it is not possible to engineer energy-efficient livestock.

Further, the emissions of Irish agriculture do not account for the carbon sequester that could occur through reforestation which would also provide significant resources for generations to come and restore lost habitats.

Overwhelming focus on raising cattle for beef and dairy

Irish farming is concerned overwhelmingly with the raising of cattle for beef and dairy. There are 6.8 million cattle in Ireland and a mere 8 per cent of agricultural land is devoted to tillage, mostly crops for livestock consumption. A tiny proportion of the fruit and vegetables available in Irish shops are grown here, and we have no exports to speak of.

Ireland has the capacity to produce a lot more food on less land. Consider that prior to the Famine, without using synthetic fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides it was possible for 3 million inhabitants to eek out a living on 1 million acres of land, often in marginal locations, out of a total potential farming area of 20 million acres. I don’t suggest that the population lives entirely on potatoes but it illustrates the crop yields possible from Irish soil.

There is growing recognition that we need to increase the level of tree cover – which at approximately 10 per cent is one of the lowest in the EU. Opposition spokesman Eamon O Cuiv has advocated that farmland owned by NAMA should be converted to forestry – an initiative that NAMA to Nature, a group I was involved in, began almost a year and a half ago!

The long-term economics of livestock farming in most of Ireland simply do not add up. Despite CAP payments of €2.39 billion, a mere 37 per cent of Irish farms are economically viable with 58 per cent of their incomes derived from the Single Farm Payment last year. For beef farmers it amounted to a worrying 80 per cent of income, and 33 per cent of dairy farmers.

It is often argued in favour of Irish farming that we earn €9 billion in export revenue through it – but we also import €5 billion worth of food to one of Europe’s most rural societies. A combination of import substitution, export alternatives and domestic growing initiatives as well as more attractive landscapes for tourism could make up lost jobs and revenue. We could grow many more crops for the home market by changing our subsidy regime, developing labour-intensive horticulture and raising public health in the process.

Questioning our present models of food production

The psychology of why many environmentalists do no question our present models of food production may reside in a deep attachment to animal products. This even afflicts climate scientists who should now better. James E. McWilliams states: ‘I can understand climate scientists flying in airplanes to conferences or driving cars to work, because they don’t have the time to walk or bike the distance. But I cannot understand climate scientists deliberately choosing to put meat and other animal foods in their mouths when there are perfectly good, low-impact, plant-based alternatives widely available in every corner of the globe.’

The excuse of eating locally ignores that we subsidise certain types of food despite their egregious environmental impact. Studies have shown that food miles are a small percentage of the total greenhouse gas emissions associated with food.

The terrible beauty of the Burren landscape serves as a warning for the consequences of intensive grazing. The rest of Ireland should take note. Mitigating climate change and habitat loss is reason enough to adopt a vegetarian or vegan diet.

A Recipe for World Vegetarian Day

Nut and Seed Roast

Serves: 8

Preparation time approximately 40 minutes

8 ounces (225 grams) of cooked millet (breadcrumbs can be used instead – rye bread works best)

4 ounces (115 grams) of ground seeds (mixture of sunflower, pumpkin, sesame and linseed)

4 ounces (115 grams) of ground nuts (mixture of peanuts, cashews, hazelnuts and blanched almonds)

1 tbs of tamari sauce (or soya sauce)½ teaspoon of salt½ teaspoon of nutritional yeast fortified with vitamin B12 (optional)

1 leek (finely chopped)

Mixed herbs, dried or fresh eg tarragon, oregano, basil, herbs de provence (finely chopped)

1 cup of water (between 200 and 250 ml)

1 tbs of rapeseed oil or other oil appropriate for frying

Directions

  1. Take one cup of millet and put in a saucepan over a low heat for approximately 5-10 minutes, taking care for it not to burn by stirring regularly.
  2. Add 2 cups of water to the millet and bring to the boil, then simmer for 20 minutes by which time all the water should be absorbed.
  3. Wash a leek by cutting a line down the top and run it under a tap to get the dirt out from inside. Remove any parts that are going bad along with the root at the base.
  4. Finely chop the leek and saute over a low heat for about 10 minutes (do this while the millet is cooking)
  5. Finely chop the herbs.
  6. Measure out the millet and put in a bowl along with the ground seeds and nuts, herbs, tamari, water, leek, salt and nutritional yeast and mix thoroughly.
  7. Transfer the mixture into a baking tin, making a smooth top with a spatula (you can decorate the top with a few cherry tomatoes if you like)
  8. Bake for approximately 40 minutes at 180 degrees, or until well-browned.
  9. Cut into 8 portions.
  10. Serve with a sugar-free tomato relish, potato salad, the remainder of the millet and a green salad.
  11. Multiply the ingredients by two or three and freeze a quantity.

Frank Armstrong teaches an open access course in UCD on the Politics of Food.

Read: Meteorologist vows to never fly again after climate change report>
Read: ‘Extremely likely’ humans caused over half of global warming in the last 60 years>
Column: What does the climate change report mean for Ireland?

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176 Comments
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    Mute Liam Treacy
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:04 PM

    Give the Greeks the two fingers and the one finger as well. They retire at 50, they don’t pay tax, they bribe government officials and a succession of governments have ignored it. We’ve had our problems but most of us took it on the chin. The American Prof was interesting today. He laid the blame clearly and unambiguously at the door of ALL bankers and regulators.

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    Mute My EL531W
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:16 PM

    There’s as much responsibility on those who lend money as those who borrow it. Greece should never have been let into the Euro. But if we’re playing that game, the Euro should never have been created in the first place as it marries economies that are too dissimilar.

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    Mute Liam Long
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:23 PM

    They also owe us money… we baled them out…

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    Mute Dara McGann
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:25 PM

    In hindsight Greece should never have been allowed in, but at the time they lied their way through it.

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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:33 PM

    @dara. And no one from the EU bothered checking the books

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:36 PM

    @ EL531W
    Our neighbours across the water said that from day 1, and that was their main reason for not wanting a hand, act or part in it. If memory serves me right they got a real slagging over it at the time too – accused of being aloof, arrogant and and self-righteous etc.. How the tables have turned…

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    Mute judy burke
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:07 AM

    One of the lies was the audit they did in one of Athens largest hospitals which was losing money hand over fist.
    There were 45 gardeners on the staff and guess what ?…..They didn’t even have a garden .

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    Mute Tommy Whelan
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    Feb 6th 2015, 9:23 AM

    The euro is a currency for a single country . The future united Europe where we are all heading .

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Feb 5th 2015, 10:58 PM

    Heh Wolfgang Schaeuble how about the Germans repaying the monies they stole from the Greeks during the second world war. Would you agree to that?

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    Mute Juninho
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:01 PM

    Germany thinks the world has forgotten. They’re wrong.

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    Mute Goldberg
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:13 PM

    That’s why the term don’t mention ze war was invented

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    Mute Dara McGann
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:18 PM

    Germany repaid it’s debts from the war in fill in 2009 if i remember the discussion about it on newstalk today…although I’ll probably be told that they’re patty of the DOB media conspiracy do they’re lying..

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:56 PM

    In the aftermath of the war the yanks actually stepped in and paid most of Germany’s war reparations on their behalf, as they feared a return to fascism if the German economy was crippled (a rare occasion of the yanks actually being insightful). Pretty ironic that most of Germany’s debts were written off due to their economy being a basket case, given recent events.

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    Mute Shane McGettrick
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:00 AM

    I thought that referred to reparations made resulting from the treaty of Versailles signed in 1919 although I may be mistaken. Then again, even if that included payments relating to WW2, 60 years is a pretty generous repayment period, never mind what inflation would have greatly reduced the value of any payments over that kind of time period.

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    Mute Eamon O'Sullivan
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:26 AM

    hey Kerry – how about we stop this stupid shit and just blame the living population for their sins?
    What is it with people on the journal bitching and moaning about stuff they weren’t even alive for? Is there ever a moment when you people can think for yourselves?

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    Mute John Moylan
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    Feb 6th 2015, 10:26 AM

    @Dara – that was WW1 debts, not WW2…….

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    Mute Goldberg
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    Feb 5th 2015, 10:56 PM

    Old Wolfgang should have been cast as a bond movie bad guy – all he’s missing is the white cat

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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:23 AM

    Wolfgang should be reminded that Germany still owes millions to the rest of Europe for WWII donner und blitzen Angela !

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    Mute Denis O Brien
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    Feb 6th 2015, 8:09 AM

    Germany owe nothing as they had loads of it written off. and reached a debt restructuring deal to only start paying remainder when exports were at 3% and above.

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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:16 PM

    Denis how much German bank debt have the Irish people paid and continue to pay way way into the future.? If you pay my debts would I not owe you, morally and legally.

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    Mute Sean Murphy
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    Feb 7th 2015, 9:48 AM

    What?

    It’s paying back. If someone borrowed 500 from you would you expect them
    To pay it back?

    What if they borrowed and spent it with no control. Civil servants day offs the norm. No productivity, work or results Country vastly overspending. Then complaining they have to pay it back.

    It’s simple logic. Their chickens have come home to roost. Because people don’t like the idea of paying it back they can have forgiveness is it? What?

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    Mute GO GREEN
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:02 PM

    If they do not compromise with Greece they will drive Greece out of the euro which will trigger a contagion affect to countries like Portugal, Spain Italy and the euro will be finished which will be a devastating blow to the EU that could itself quickly unravel. I may be totally wrong of course but whatever happens history is in the making these next few weeks and months.

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    Mute rory conway
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:40 PM

    Go Green , you are spouting cliches. The euro will survive a potential Greek default. It is stronger now. Do you just repeat the manta without updating it ?

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    Mute GO GREEN
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:50 PM

    You are right Rory the ECB has more firepower that it did a few years ago but still not nearly enough if big countries like Italy begin to wobble after the uncertainty if Greece exits . That is my opinion as I said I may be wrong but that is the way I read it, nothing cliche about it.

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    Mute Kevin Carroll
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:26 AM

    They can’t contain a 1trillion Spanish defauld and podemos are set to win in a few months.

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    Mute Deaglán O'Ceirín
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    Feb 6th 2015, 6:49 AM

    Truth is nobody knows what will happen. Not even the ‘experts’ all we have is facts. If Greece go they walk away owing a lot. They’ll have their lot to deal with. For Europe the whole financial landscape will change. The markets will go wild, focusing on Spain and Portugal. You don’t need experts to see forecast this far. Possible run on banks, this just a possibility. No doubt though more Euro will need to be printed causing deflation (Europe are already doing similar without the Greek exit). This will greatly affect the British Pound as it will become very strong against the Euro. Causing them all sorts of problems.

    If Spain vote in a left leaning government (and it’s looking more likely they will) and look for the same as Greece we could be definitely be looking at the end of the single currency

    Who really knows what will happen.

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    Mute Paul Roche
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    Feb 6th 2015, 8:01 AM

    I think Italy deserves a special mention…

    11
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    Mute Deaglán O'Ceirín
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    Feb 6th 2015, 8:19 AM

    Sorry Paul, you’re absolutely correct. Italy definitely need a mention. That puts even more pressure on the single currency should Greece leave. Next month or so is going to be very interesting.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Feb 6th 2015, 10:05 AM

    Greece needs to show Germany their willingness to overcome austerity rather than producing the begging bowl. The Germans could help Greece but there needs to be a shared responsibility for that to happen.

    10
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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:29 PM

    If the Germans hadn’t got away with forcing other countries like ours to pay their debts they would be a little bit more understanding of countries in dire straits like Greece and Schaeuble might have liitle more humility. The ECB were never going to allow the backbone of the Euro to be damaged in such a manner so the little people from the little countries were made pay for the Germans greed or was stupidity.

    9
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    Mute Gary Brennan
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:05 PM

    Why pump money into an insolvent state to prop up insolvent banks. The can is now being kicked down a cul de sac “END GAME”.

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    Mute Lamby Lennox
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:52 AM

    I mean who are the Germans. Were they not bailed out after world war 2. Hypocrites !!

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    Mute Paul Roche
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    Feb 6th 2015, 8:00 AM

    You think they lost the war?

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    Mute Gill B
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    Feb 6th 2015, 9:27 AM

    Go Greece

    Sticking a very polite finger up to the 1% who own the banks

    Surely 99% rest of us should support them ?

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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:12 PM

    Not our Enda he refuses to support the Greek call for a debt conference despite getting elected on a vow to renegotiate the bank debt,, he see’s himself as part of the 1% now, The one percent just look at him as a useful peasant idiot.

    21
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    Mute Juan Venegas
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    Feb 6th 2015, 3:13 PM

    I don’t think is a bluff, the new Greek government is not bluffing and the EU knows it, they have absolutely nothing to lose, either way they are screwed, at least they can be screwed on their own terms and being masters of their own future and recovery. I am surprised they haven’t called the Germans hypocrites using their debt forgiveness after WW2 and the retribution money Germany still owes the Greeks from WW2

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    Mute @mdmak33
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:04 PM

    This is not democracy, Germany controls the euro zone and it has to be stopped. wish our so called reps had a backbone,but no they just have long tongues

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    Mute James Gorman
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:11 PM

    Yea like we know how to manage an economy better

    62
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    Mute Paul Mc
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:08 PM

    The Germans have very short memories, they seem to have forgotten the destruction that they caused during world war 2 and the help they received after the war and during the fall of East Germany .
    It seems to be it’s all one way traffic take take take.
    Hitler might be dead but the Germans haven’t changed much.

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    Mute Dara McGann
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:28 PM

    Germany are and have been the biggest contributors to the European pot, how is that all take take take?

    Any money they received after the war was paid back and they did it without breaking their back through fiscal responsibility.

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    Mute James Gorman
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:08 AM

    Paul Mc you couldn’t be more wrong

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    Mute Andy Patton
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:14 AM

    Paul wants to be Conor Mcgregor.

    23
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    Mute Eamon O'Sullivan
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:21 AM

    none of those people are alive now… why would you judge the current population by them?

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    Mute CreditTiger
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:34 AM

    Germany only recently came across with their repairations after a 50% write down in 1953 yet the Greeks are not to be afforded any such leeway with a high probability of the remaining PIGS to follow over the cliff and into zie würst-maker!!

    http://www.dw.de/german-economic-miracle-thanks-to-debt-relief/a-16630511

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    Mute justanothertaxpayer
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:41 AM

    @Credit – they defrauded their way into the euro – let them burn while the rest of us pay what we owe.
    Have zero sympathy for Greece

    29
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    Mute Paul Mc
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:46 AM

    I’ll whup ur ass boyo.

    15
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    Mute CreditTiger
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    Feb 6th 2015, 1:49 AM

    And yet ‘Paddy’ could be brow-beaten and ‘defrauded’ into making austere repairations from the lower rungs of the EuroRaum banking ponzi scheme and still doff the cap for the privilege!

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    Mute Justin McNulty
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    Feb 6th 2015, 6:37 AM

    You’re right dara, people like Paul won’t let the truth get in the way of a good prejudice!

    9
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    Mute Robert Carson
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:23 PM

    Greece: “Hi, can I borrow some cash?”

    Lender: “Shouldn’t be a problem, have you ever borrowed before?”

    Greece: “Uh, yes…”

    Lender: “Cool, how did it end up? Did you repay it the way you said you would?”

    Greece: “ummmm….. well……. urrrrrr……nearly……..actually not really!”

    Lender: “ah, computer says no”

    60
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    Mute Denis O Brien
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    Feb 6th 2015, 8:12 AM

    you make it sound like country’s that default never get to borrow again.

    8
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    Mute Tim Kearney
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    Feb 5th 2015, 10:53 PM

    The Jerries will win the war

    49
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    Mute rory conway
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:01 PM

    Syriza, the end is in sight, you cannot match your promises. Nobody gets debts like yours forgiven. It’s tough, but my bank won’t write off my mortgage either. Sorry .

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    Mute Irish Steven
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:08 PM

    Congrats Rory, stupidest comment of the week award for you. Not sure how I’m going to post it to you though with you living on the moon.

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    Mute rory conway
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:47 PM

    Irish , got it even in outer space. You failed to mention why it was stupid, two questions.
    1 Did Greece borrow money
    2. Has it a problem in repaying the money plus interest.?
    If the answer to both questions is “yes” then my point seems to stand.

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    Mute Irish Steven
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:54 PM

    That’s only one question

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    Mute Charles Mcdonald
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    Feb 6th 2015, 1:31 AM

    Your dead on Rory. Greece like ourselves got into a mess. Different reasons we had a banking meltdown but the coffers were in good shape till we linked bank debt to sovereign bonds ensuring that hopeless sinking ships was kept afloat. Problem was a couple of those ships were already under water and pulled the whole thing down.

    Greece on the other hand had structural deficits for years massive overspend while increasing spending far more than tax take as well as having awful tax enforcement and a weak economy. Cooked the books to hide what they could but we’re massively exposed.

    We linked ourselves to banks dealing in euro effectively capital flight we in other words stopped a European meltdown of banks by jumping on the grenade. The banks went because housing bubble left them open to shocks they needed liquidity when that stopped coming from countries it was game over man for them. We turned their problem into our own.

    So we are different from the Greeks they overspend and now don’t want to pay it back. As bad as we got stung we are bouncing back. Greece is sinking deeper it’s a car crash we are watching in slow motion. Maybe more could be done lower interest extend the loan invest in infastructure. But like any of use we took out a mortgage we have to pay it back.

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    Mute Daniel Wilson
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    Feb 6th 2015, 2:33 AM

    Every time I see Charles’ profile picture I freak the f*ck out a little inside

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    Mute Avina Laaf
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    Feb 6th 2015, 7:20 AM

    Steven, if that’s the level of your numeracy no wonder your take on the situation is flawed…

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    Mute Charles Mcdonald
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    Feb 6th 2015, 9:32 AM

    Daniel. …. Oh Daniel. ….. I’m coming for you……

    Under you bed at night I’ll be there to give you that fright. I like to start from the end. Toes first and creep up more and more

    See you soon ;)

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    Mute johngahan
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    Feb 6th 2015, 1:08 AM

    Greece has simply been irresponsible. There is no grey area.

    Ireland took on reality and has marched back to strength. All that income tax back in the country coffers to pay for health and social welfare has been put there through hard work.

    Let the Greeks do some hard work.

    The leftie loons and their howling at the moon about self determination and the will of mother nature is pure BS.

    Sinn Fe]n needs to move permanently to Greece and guide them through their crisis.

    Here in Ireland, we have work to do.

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    Mute CreditTiger
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    Feb 6th 2015, 3:18 AM

    Last line sounds familiar…..”more to do”…..just not on the backs of the well to do!

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:23 PM

    What is with the Jerries and their desire for an empire?
    Maybe they should reflect on how many times their attempts to control Europe has ended in tears for them or at very least think about how every other country helped them when they were a pure basketcase.

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    Mute Andy Patton
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:16 AM

    Downvoted for saying “jerries” – you knob.

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Feb 6th 2015, 11:01 AM

    Oohhh you called me a knob, run away little boy or I’ll tell your mammy you were on the internet calling people names.

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    Mute Andy Patton
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    Feb 6th 2015, 11:02 AM

    Got any more cool slang?

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Feb 6th 2015, 11:21 AM

    I’m not teaching you any bad words.

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    Mute greg
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:09 PM

    Guys you have to look at this please share this…..

    https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1029987353683488&fref=nf

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    Mute Markonline
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    Feb 6th 2015, 1:15 AM

    Flipping hell, and only 3 days after the deadline. They certainly act like a private company except with the impunity of the public sector. A tough slap in the face really.

    8
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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:27 AM

    The last time the Germans tried to take over Europe it all ended in tears in 1945 as it will again!

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    Mute mrgillhouley
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    Feb 6th 2015, 3:20 AM

    The bluff has being well and truly called. there are consequence to greek stupidity

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    Mute Paul Lane
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    Feb 6th 2015, 7:50 AM

    Our spineless yellow masters who betrayed our country are scared in case Greece get a deal and proved by Edna KenKnees comments when visiting big filth in Europe yesterday. He has good reason to be afraid as Germany will buckle otherwise they lose and Greece knows this.

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    Mute Gzeit
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    Feb 6th 2015, 3:17 AM

    Let’s not forget folks that money and debt are an illusion!

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    Mute David Welsh
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    Feb 6th 2015, 7:55 AM

    Greece is so corrupt it’s like Charlie had been in power for 25 years. And we are talking seventies CJH not early nineties. It doesn’t fit with Europe. It would be better off in the African Union. It would be better for all if a divorce was negotiated.

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    Mute Ashley Brown
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    Feb 6th 2015, 4:59 AM

    Das Euro ist Tod. Es ist Kaput. The QE is too little too late. If there isn’t growth many of the peripheral countries will follow Greece. The Euro will only work if there is honesty between the member countries. With Ireland’s low rate of Corporate tax that’ll be a tough call.

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    Mute Charlie Mountney
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    Feb 5th 2015, 11:20 PM

    Shared.

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    Mute Tom
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:12 PM

    Angela Merkel has often said that the world was very kind to Europe after WW2: similarly Germany was very kind to the rest of Europe for the last 20 years.
    The Greeks are behaving teenagers. They are like Jay from the Inbetweeners. Eventually someone had called them on their bulls*€t.

    Greece’s strategy is “Let’s shame the rest of Europe into giving us more money even though we pissed it away before. ”
    Our answer: best of luck lads.

    Literally every cent is leaving Greece now.

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    Mute Martin Byrne
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:42 PM

    @Tom The Greek government were voted in by a huge majority …are you saying they should do what Enda did and tare off their sheeps clothing once elected and fling themselves at the feet of the ECB and ignore democracy.?

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    Mute Tom
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    Feb 6th 2015, 4:53 PM

    I’m saying they’ve got to live in the real world. They won’t get a universal write down of debt, something they promised. In the history of politics, politicians generally promise something which can be delivered but then fails because of circumstances, special interests, etc.
    Syriza promised something not achievable -a write down of debt coupled with structured reform was simply not achievable. Tsipras has now travelled around Europe like a petulant teen and by rejecting the Troika, they will run out of money. Even if a deal is done now, where will Greece get money? Would you be happy if your pension fund invested in Greece?

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    Mute Cathal O'Donoghue
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    Feb 6th 2015, 10:23 AM

    This situation is an elegant demonstration of the limitations of populist politics. Everyone contemplating casting a vote on the basis that anyone is better than the current crowd should watch carefully.

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    Mute Tom
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    Feb 6th 2015, 12:37 PM

    Bit of an inferiority complex there Paul?

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