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THE SEANAD REFERENDUM was defeated today, a result that had not been indicated by any previous opinion polls but had been flagged on the doorsteps.
It was a tight count with the margins close in many constituencies. But Dublin – and much of the east coast – voted overwhelming against the proposed amendment to abolish Ireland’s second house.
Turnout at 39 per cent was low, but better than expected. We brought the results to you as they came in. Here’s how it went down.
Good morning and welcome to our referendum count liveblog as the ballot boxes are open across the country. It’s Hugh O’Connell here and together with Daragh Brophy and Rónán Duffy we’ll be bringing all the latest.
There were reports last night of some considerable confusion caused by the two ballot papers. Our own Daragh Brophy said people were confused by the different colours and which paper was which when he went to his polling station.
Here’s what voters were faced with when they went to cast their vote last night:
From the chairman of the Fine Gael party:
One Labour TD, Dublin South East’s Kevin Humphreys, is calling it:
Charlie Flanagan, the Fine Gael chairman, is on Morning Ireland and says that “we’ve really got to go back to the drawing board” on running referenda saying voters were confused when he was out and about yesterday.
“There was an element of confusion and I think the element of confusion is borne out in the wording of the ballot paper, ” he says, adding: “We don’t really simplify things that are straight-forward”.
Despite all this he then says it’s not a time yet for post mortems but does call for a permanent Referendum Commission to be established. Incidentally Environment Minister Phil Hogan said this week he hopes to do that at some point in this government’s term.
Also on Morning Ireland, Sinn Féin Senator David Cullinane says that the whole referendum campaign was a “shambles”. No surprise there.
Labour’s Meath East TD Dominic Hannigan is also on Morning Ireland and says in relation to Kevin Humphrey’s tweet that “if Kevin says it’s a No in Dublin South East, then its a No in Dublin South East”.
He says he was meeting No voters most of the day yesterday. But what kind of company does he keep?
By the way some of you are already querying if its referenda or referendums when it comes to the plural of referendum. Our former colleague Gavan Reilly explains this very well indeed.
“I think an awful lot of political parties in Leinster House were surprised when the Taoiseach proceeded with this referendum,” says Fine Gael TD Simon Harris on Morning Ireland. He’s probably not wrong.
Early tallies indicate that it’s close and in Dublin there are lots of tallies which indicate a No vote there but it’s still too early to be definitive about anything.
Lots of chat about Dublin but here’s what Fianna Fáil activist Ken Curtin is tweeting from Cork:
Here’s our report on the confusion caused by the ballot papers.
As you may know Donegal is traditionally a part of the country that rejects whatever the government proposes. We’ve just heard our first reports from there on RTÉ which indicate it’s a No in Letterkenny to Seanad abolition but a “slight Yes” to the Court of Appeal referendum.
A Fianna Fáil stronghold looks set to reject Seanad abolition, according to Sinn Féin anyway:
He hasn’t gone away you know: Declan Ganley – who called for No vote in the Seanad referendum – has an idea:
So what do ye make of the confusion caused by the ballot papers? It’s been pretty active in the comments so far this morning and this is a flavour of what’s being said:
“Counting is under way in the Republic of Ireland on referendums to decide the fate of the Irish Senate, Seanad Éireann,” says this brief BBC News report this morning. We’ll have a look around to see if there is any other international coverage.
Conspiracies, conspiracies, conspiracies:
So at just after 10am, here’s what we know: Early tallies in Dublin indicate that the Seanad abolition referendum will be rejected in Dublin, but elsewhere it’s looking like a Yes vote.
But it’s still too early to call. It’s tight, that’s what we can say for sure.
“Mary actually raises a fair point,” Fine Gael TD Simon Harris agrees with Mary ‘Mammy’ O’Rourke on RTÉ One’s coverage of the referendum count in a rare outbreak of bipartisanship. They’re talking about the confusing ballot papers. Everyone on the panel appears to agree that the ballot papers are far too confusing altogether.
Whatever about Mark Daly’s tweet earlier here’s Fine Gael director of elections Richard Bruton doing a tally in the RDS this morning:
Pic: Sam Boal/Photocall Ireland
“It’s very early days,” says Richard Bruton on RTÉ One. Asked if there appeared to be a lot of No votes in government strongholds, Bruton says: “I don’t think you can detect patterns at this stage.”
He doesn’t look confident, if we’re honest.
Another pic of a pensive looking Richard Bruton…
If you’re interested in what’s happening in Wicklow, Stephen Kearon is keeping a live Google Doc right here. A very slight Yes there with a fifth of the boxes opened.
“I don’t think anyone can call the thing yet, and certainly not on Twitter,” says junior health minister Alex White on Morning Ireland saying it’s 55-45 No in Dublin South. “It seems to me to be trending No,” he says, at least in Dublin anyway.
Alex White was pretty despondent on Morning Ireland there. He cautioned that it is tight but appeared to admit the Seanad abolition referendum has been lost in Dublin at the very least.
On turnout, early tallies appear to indicate that it will exceed the 33 per cent that came out for the Children’s referendum last November.
Sinn Féin TD Mary Lou McDonald says “the Nos have it” in her own constituency of Dublin Central. She says it was a big mistake for Enda Kenny not to debate the Seanad referendum and to “rush this issue” and not put it the Constitutional Convention.
McDonald says that in the event of a No vote, it would “be a disaster for all of us” if the Seanad is not reformed.
“I would call on the Taiseach to very smartly, without delay to see out the precise manner in which that reform happen,” she says.
She says the matter should be referred to the Constitutional Convention. If it’s a No, that is.
On Morning Ireland, Fine Gael TD and deputy director of elections Regina Doherty says it is 55 to 45 per cent No in Meath East. “I wouldn’t be as definitive as Mary Lou [McDonald] is about an overall No,” she says.
As of now it’s looking like 55 – 45 in favour of Yes vote in Mayo, local Fianna Fáil TD Dara Calleary tells Morning Ireland.
So why is it so close when opinion polls showed a clear lead for the Yes? Well, because there were still a lot of undecideds as of late last week.
An Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI that was published on Monday and carried out late last week showed that over a fifth of voters were undecided. And Don’t Knows tend to swing to No, as appears to have happened.
At 11am it looks like Dublin will reject abolition of the Seanad but it’s still too close to call across the rest of the country and as a result we cannot say definitively which way it’s going to go.
NUI Maynooth lecturer and elections expert Adrian Kavanagh…
Senator David Norris is in studio with Marian Finucane on RTÉ Radio 1. “The indications are looking quite positive for the Seanad,” he says.
Out in Galway West, it’s not looking good for this Fine Gael TD:
Here are a couple of more pictures from the count at the RDS courtesy of Photocall Ireland:
On RTÉ One, Alex White has conceded in Dublin but is not yet sure about the rest of the country.
Hugh O’Connell signing off now to head down to Dublin Castle. My colleague Rónán Duffy will take over liveblogging duties. Hope to bring you coverage from the Central Count Centre a little later.
Good morning, Rónán Duffy here. Well it’s looking far tighter than many predicted. We’re hoping for a result some time in the late afternoon according to those down in the count centre. A lot of votes to be counted and talking to be done first though.
Senator John Crown isn’t making any presumptions on RTÉ. He says the the ‘No’ side on which he was a prominent voice has a had a ‘positive’ start to the count. He speaks directly to Taoiseach Enda Kenny:
If there is a no vote, it must be seen by him as winning a mandate to bring about the reform we’ve all been working for.
Tallies all over Dublin still trending ‘No’, the capital looking fairly decided so far on the issue. Even in just eight words the Minister for Transport seems resigned to his constituency going against the government.
Our political editor Hugh O’Connell has arrived at the count centre and has written an update of the feeling among politicians down there.
It still looks like Dublin has gone ‘No’ but it remains to be seen if this trend will be replicated throughout the country.
Hugh O’Connell here at the Dublin Castle Central Count Centre where it’s fairly quiet so far.
Former Fine Gael Senator Fidelma Healy Eames is around and says it looks like the referendum will be defeated in Galway West which is good news for her.
Meanwhile, we saw Leo Varadkar below resigned to a ‘No’ vote in Dublin West. His final tally is now completed: 53 per cent No, 47 per cent Yes.
“Sin é”, he says. Not quite nationally but we’re getting there.
Before today there have been four referendums during the lifetime of the present government. The current score is three Yes and one No.
The judge’s remuneration, fiscal compact and children’s rights referndums were passed but the Oireachtas inquires vote was defeated. Today is obviously still in the balance with voting on the Court of Appeal referendum due after the Seanad count.
Senator John Whelan has a theory about the uncertain start to counting
Niall Collins, Fianna Fáil’s director of elections, has been speaking down at the count centre, saying that Fianna Fáil put forward “coherent arguments” which demolished Fine Gael and Sinn Féin’s position. No mention for Labour there interestingly.
The first constituency result is in for the Seanad vote! It comes from Galway East and the first numbers on the board are just about good news for the Yes side:
(Referndum.ie)
Tipperary South has competed it’s count now too and is extremely tight:
Yes: 50.41
No: 49.59
Here’s what Fianna Fáil’s Niall Collins had to say at Dublin Castle a few minutes ago:
I think deep down, the people within Ireland, they value their political institutions, their democratic systems. Nobody was arguing for the status quo.
The Taoiseach’s spokesperson has been in to see us here at Dublin Castle and says it’s “too close to call”.
State of play at this early stage:
Paddy Power are today calling the result of the Seanad Referendum early and paying out on a ‘No’ result.
This man down the count centre will be happy:
(h/t Fiach Kelly)
We have our first No of the day as Cork South Central goes with its local Fianna Fáil TD Micheál Martin:
Yes: 48.73 per cent
No: 51.27 per cent
Second result from Leeside, this time Cork North-Central:
Yes: 51.84 per cent
No: 48.16 per cent
Most decisive result so far from Kidare North:
Yes: 45.39 per cent
No: 54.61 per cent
That last result has put the ‘No’ side slighty ahead.
Results from Dublin which is tallying ‘No’ are expected to begin coming in from 2pm.
Dublin South West has completed its count. It’s a no.
Yes: 47.68 per cent
No: 52.32 per cent
Sinn Fein TD Dessie Ellis does his sums at the RDS. Pic: Niall Carson/PA Wire
As is the trend around the city, Dublin Mid-West votes ‘No’:
Yes: 45.3 per cent
No: 54.7 per cent
It’s only 2 o’clock but the future of the Seanad is looking safer and safer.
Our first result from the north-west of the country comes from Donegal North-East:
Yes: 48.31 per cent
No: 51.69 per cent
Both Donegal constituencies were the only two in the country to vote against the Children’s Referendum last year.
First win for the ‘Yes’ side in the past 50 minutes but it’s by just 201 votes in Tipperary North:
Yes: 50.38 per cent
No: 49.62 per cent
If you’re from the Kerry North- West Limerick constituency here’s how you voted:
Yes: 53.84 per cent
No: 46.16 per cent
Leo Varadkar is on RTÉ One right now and points out that all panellists – him, David Cullinane, Mattie McGrath, and Niall Collins – appear to have lost their own constituencies.
He says that there is no appetite for reform given that most people did not come out and vote. He said he doesn’t agree that with the idea that a No vote is a vote for reform. “Most people aren’t that pushed whether the Seanad is reformed,” he says adding that he strongly favoured abolition. But it doesn’t look like he’s going to get it.
Turnout so far looks set to eclipse that of the Children’s referendum last November and is running at about 38 per cent at the moment.
The nationwide picture with 13 results in.
Green is Yes, red is No. Obviously.
Sligo North-Leitrim:
Yes: 50.76 per cent
Now 49.24 per cent
‘No’ campaigner Noel Whelan tells RTÉ that he “knew we were making ground over the last few days”. Slams government for “simplistic crude and inaccurate messaging about politics itself.”
Leo Varadkar is having none of it, says the proposal would have been passed if “turnout had been over 50 per cent.”
(Pic: Niall Carson/PA Wire)
Senator David Norris is very happy, he tells Miriam O’Callaghan that the Irish people have voted for democracy:
Enda has clearly put reform on the agenda, the Irish people have said that they want reform. It wasn’t on the ballot paper but it’s there now, you can’t remove.
He loves twitter as well appearantly. Thinks it’s amazing how he has managed to reach so many people online.
Senator David Norris is taking some slack online for saying that Seanad should remain “elitist”. He tells Miriam that he doesn’t want to Seanad to become a second Dáil, feels it should still be a forum for prominent people such as Professor John Crown.
Good afternoon. Sinéad O’Carroll here, taking over for the afternoon. The consensus seems to be that the referendum will be defeated but we’ll keep you updated as the results come in.
Leo Varadkar has been asked if the Taoiseach should consider his position.
“Not at all. This is a referendum on the Seanad,” he laughs. But he notes that the government need to start getting some referendums through if Ireland wants political reform.
And a result from Dublin North-West is in and we have another No from the capital.
NO 54.7 per cent
YES 45.31 per cent
So not tight there.
Another result from Dublin South - the last of the Dublin county constituencies. Out of a total of 46,855, there were 356 invalid ballot papers.
And it’s a No.
An update from the Government Chief Whip Paul Kehoe in Wexford, where it is still too close to call.
He’s in the count centre where the returning officer has redistributed all counted papers to be rechecked again.
He has just tweeted this picture with the caption, “That’s how close it is #seanref”.
Hugh O’Connell has been chatting to David Norris with a few other reporters down at Dublin Castle. He’s still delighted, argues about the power of Twitter and praises the President.
“We were twittering together,” he says.
There has been no official word yet – nor has the government conceded defeat – but people are welcoming the Seanad Referendum ‘Result’.
The Union of Students of Ireland has just issued a statement saying a No vote it is a “extremely positive result for Irish democracy”. President Joe O’Connor, however, said that neither option given to the electorate offered political reform.
Let’s recap on the 26 results we have so far, if you want to find out where you’re constituency is at:
Clare: Yes 51.33 per cent
Cork North-Central: Yes 51.84 per cent
Cork South-Central: No 51.27 per cent
Donegal North-East: No 51.69 per cent
Donegal South-West: No 50.42 per cent
Dublin Mid-West: No 54.7 per cent
Dublin North: No 54.67 per cent
Dublin North-West: No 54.7 per cent
Dublin South-West: No 52.32 per cent
Dublin West: No 57.58 per cent
Dun Laoghaire: No 57.1 per cent
Galway East: Yes 51.37 per cent
Kerry North- West Limerick: Yes 53.84 per cent
Kildare North: No 54.61 per cent
Kildare South: No 55.51 per cent
Limerick City: Yes 52.72 per cent
Longford-Westmeath: Yes 51.02 per cent
Mayo: Yes 57.46 per cent
Meath East: No 52.58 per cent
Meath West: No 53.61 per cent
Roscommon-South Leitrim: Yes 51.67 per cent
Sligo-North Leitrim: Yes 50.76 per cent
Tipperary North: Yes 50.38 per cent
Tipperary South: No 53.46 per cent
Louth has also voted not to abolish the Seanad. The result is a solid 52.3 per cent for the No side.
A theory that is being put out there today is how complacent the ‘Yes’ side became in front of an apathetic electorate.
Twitter user James Doorley blames the polls.
12 of the 12 Dublin constituencies are in. And it’s a significant victory for those who wanted to retain the Seanad (or more correctly, probably, for those who did not want to abolish it).
NO: 55.6 per cent
Today FM’s Aingeala Flannery points something out…
At Dublin Castle, Senator Prof. John Crown says that the momentum swung to the ‘No’ side when people “saw through” the €20 million savings figure that Fine Gael were touting.
Hugh O’Connell at the Central Count Centre here, Michael McDowell has been speaking to the media at Dublin Castle and he’s had some strong words for Enda Kenny: “The real question is that when he brought it to the people why did it cease to be a personal leadership initiative? Why didn’t he lead when the Yes side required him to lead? That’s a matter for him to consider.”
The former Tánaiaste said now was a chance for reform: “He [Taoiseach] now has an opportunity to deliver on the basis that he has heard the people – through the ballot box – give an overwhelming rejection to the politics of cynicism and spin and this is a mandate now for him to reform Seanad Eireann, to make it what the people of Ireland thought they were putting in place when the enacted the Constitution back in 1937.”
More results are in … we currently have a ‘no’ vote in 22 constituencies and ‘Yes’ in 14 making the national picture look like this:
YES 48.4 per cent
NO 51.6 per cent
BREAKING
News just in from Dublin Castle. We’re expecting a declaration in the next half hour or so.
Some Yes votes have just come in with both Kerry South and Cavan Monaghan opting to abolish the Seanad. It looks like they’ll be disappointed though.
Kerry South: Yes 54.5 per cent
Cavan Monaghan: Yes 54.9 per cent
Micheál Martin tells RTÉ that the opinion polls “threw them” during the campaign, despite hearing from people that they were heading towards voting No.
Turnout figures at the moment look like they will sit at the 39.1 per cent mark. Higher than expected.
Did you vote? If not, why not? Let us know in the comments.
Cork South West is very tight. But it very, very narrowly goes to the Yes side.
Yes 50.9 per cent
This is all very exciting when it’s close, isn’t it?
Right now, we’re waiting on Carlow-Kilkenny, Wicklow, Wexford and Laois-Offaly.
We’ve heard Wexford is too close to call but Laois-Offaly will be a significant ‘No’.
Just realised we didn’t bring you the Dublin South East percentages. Voters were overwhelming against abolishing the second house.
No: 61.3 per cent
If you’re wondering where the Taoiseach is, he’s giving a talk at the Global Economic Forum – the conference of influential Irish people asked to put on the green jersey to help us out of our economic troubles.
We have a result from Wicklow and it is another significant No.
No: 57.82 per cent
And the result from Carlow-Kilkenny is in and it is another narrow No vote.
YES: 49.47 per cent
NO: 50.53 per cent
Although Mayo went with their Taoiseach, many Ministers lost the vote in their constituencies. The latest being Phil Hogan in Carlow-Kilkenny.
Lucinda Creighton is a happy woman today.
The declaration has come in. The referendum to abolish the Seanad has been defeated. Here are the important figures
Total poll: 1,240,729
Invalid: 14,355
Yes: 591,937
No: 634,437
Difference: 42,500
Some maths from @gavreilly:
There was a total of 14,355 spoiled or invalid votes today. Earlier Senator Averil Power and Aodhán Ó Ríordáin were critical of people who encouraged voters to write ‘Reform’ at the end of their ballot papers.
It went down badly on the doorstep.
Here’s what the Taoiseach had to say on the defeat.
The leader of the Seanad Maurice Cummins has said that Seanad reform will be on the agenda after the Budget later this month.
Hugh O’Connell at the count centre in Dublin Castle. Here’s the moment the Seanad referendum result was confirmed.
The last results are in.
Wexford was as close as they said with a NO vote of 50.1 per cent
Finally, Laois-Offaly was 53.89 per cent YES.
In other-but-related news, Senator Rónán Mullen has confirmed his intention to fight for a seat in Europe, announcing that he will be a candidate in the Midlands-North-West constituency next year.
A close call: In Wexford, where the winning margin for the No side was just 69 votes, there was 579 invalid votes.
The Taoiseach has said he is disappointed with the result in the Seanad referendum but added that he fully accepts and respects the outcome.
He says he will reflect on the best way the house can be used in the best way.
How many times has Kenny said ‘reflect’ during this interview? Answers in the comments section.
Enda Kenny also says he welcomes the result in the Court of Appeal referendum, which looks like it will be a resounding Yes.
The current position nationally is a 65.65 per cent Yes vote versus a 34.35 per cent No vote.
Defending his lack of campaigning on the Seanad Referendum, Kenny described it as a people’s issue and not a government party issue.
“Sometimes in politics, you get a wallop in the electoral process,” continues Kenny when asked if the defeat is a black mark on his leadership.
But he believes there is a virtue in following through with his promise to ask this question of the people.
“I think it is a bit early to give any detail on how one might reflect in an effective way in this matter,” he added when asked about any possible reforms of the Seanad.
“The process of change in politics is something we are going to continue with.”
He repeats the line about reflecting and assessing how best to use the senate.
Counting in the Court of Appeal continues, even though the Taoiseach has already called the result.
Just five official results in, all floating around the 65/35 mark in favour of setting up a new court. Still not sure what that will mean? Here’s our explainer.
Senators celebrate in Dublin Castle as the result is announced.
WATCH: The Taoiseach’s reaction to the Seanad referendum defeat.
We’re going to give the last word to the Taoiseach and wrap up today’s liveblog.
Counting continues in the Court of Appeal Referendum but there’ll be no surprises there. Here’s the state of play as of 6pm. Check TheJournal.ie later for the final, official result.
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Im just throwing this out there but my vote has absolutely nothing to do with my political allignments nor was my vote in this matter influenced by the agenda of any political party. A vote for the retention of the upper house should not be taken by Fianna Fail as a victory for them.
exactly, but you know that they will try to put it out that way.
Just the usual FF arrogance.
Just goes to show how out of touch with the county these clowns are.
country
Annoying as it is, it merely balances FG’s…
No mater which side won we would have this type of rubbish , I certainly wasnt thinking of FF when I voted. Im bewildered how well the do in recent polls
@Angela Has a date been set for the rerun or have you finally accepted that this result WILL stand?
I voted No in this referendum as deep down I think the Seanad if we are to keep it needs to be reformed and fit for purpose. We have a chance of doing that if its retained. I certainly didn’t do it because FF said I should or in the same breath vote Yes because FG, SF and the fraggle rock lunatic left said I should. If the people have spoken and a No vote is carried, reform the damn thing once and for all. Make it fit for purpose and not a halfway house for wannabe and failed politicians and cronies…
Well said Darragh.
Rubbish, you only speak for yourself.
Fianna Fáil led the fight for retention of the Seanad and this is down to their hard work.
Your partizan views aside.
I will believe it when i see it Niall
To all the idiots who wrote “reform” on their ballot paper results from Tipp North showed a margin of difference of 201 with 417 spoils!
@Seanie That’s absolute BS and u know it. Voters can decide for themselves and FF had NOTHING to do with the decision of the vast majority of voters!
FF done nothing for my vote.i done the thinking for myself
Hahahaha……. oh dear Jases that made me laugh…
These delusional idiots actually think they were instrumental in this result…
Oh dream on ff…
This was done out of pure distrust of this government .
seanie is a f fail troll
I’m laying out the facts. Fianna Fáil position against all others was vindicated with over 50% of the electorate agreeing that the Seanad must be kept.
They may not all have been swayed by the debate but it certainly did for a lot of people.
The fight back is well under way, bring on the local elections.
ryan
you are one prize clown, a pure inbred f failer. Bring on the civil war.
Agreed…FF had no more to do with swaying my decision than the cast of Sesame Street.. If FF take any glory as a result of a no vote, they’re even more deluded than we thought.
it will be a sad day for this country if that shower of liars, and crooks ever worm their way back in to power. bring on the local elections is right, so we can begin to get the current shower of liars, and crooks out. Party politics are inherently undemocratic, and the old school voters in this country who vote for parties and not on the merit of policy, honesty, and capability need to wake up. we have brilliant people in this country who can’t get a look in.
FF would have serviced this country better by disbanding in 08′. Debates in the Dáil usually turn into a farce with the leading side telling their opponents “Its your fault we’re here”! Really productive.
Lol Seanie, you really are away with the fairies
Can we have a referendum on making FFailed an illegal organisation?
Seanie , you’re probably a well meaning person but let me spell this out.I listened to my own better judgement in voting no and not due to the populist spin that was spouted by a party of pocket lining politicians that is Fianna Fail.Also for the record , the current government are no better.Thank you.
”Just goes to show how out of touch with the county these clowns are.”
– they are in touch with Frankfurt and their bosses – that to them is far more important – we are only fleas on a chessboard .
I voted to reject an ill advised amendment. I did not, never have and probably never will, vote for Fianna Fail.
My No vote was not the result of Enda Kenny skipping a debate or anything to do with anyone’s personality. I voted No because the argument for a Yes vote didn’t hold water. Of course, the fact that the Yes campaign was based on deceit and misdirection was a bit of a giveaway that they in fact had no good argument to make.
Next time put together a proposal for how the government should work in the future. Clearly communicate that vision. Then put together a realistic plan to get us there. Then and only then will it be appropriate to have a referendum to start making fundamental changes.
Well said Aidan
Well said also Gavin Hoey.
Like it not FF campaigning for a NO was a vital factor in the NO victory. That’s not to say that the victory is entirely theirs and I am not sure they are claiming it as such. There were a number of other vital factors and contributions that delivered the result. But had they supported the YES, like the populist SF, then the result would have been different and be in no doubt about that.
the people have spoken . HOW COULD FF BE TRUSTED WITH POWER AGAIN
I agree with it was a vote by the people that their is a need to have a second house government from any of the main parties Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael cannot be trusted
Which County ?
Why do political parties think they have swayed peoples vote.not mine i voted no of my own volition
FF through policies that destroyed this country.
“Put” through
Dave that is rubbish. You just want someone to blame for your own mistakes.
They hardly did a good job now, did they?
Richard,
I strongly believe that history will show Prom Night to actually be the moment the country was led to bankruptcy.
Until that night, this Government had opportunity to reverse the previous ones mistakes and to question it’s obligations in relation to a guarantee based on fraudulent statements made by the banks.
@Seanie where have you been living? On the moon if you think FF have not responsible for most of the grief this country is in. FG aren’t much better but FF should be consigned to history.
FF make me sick to my stomach.Never forget FF are the party that turned this country into a cesspit.
Hear hear. Never forget.
What about the labour/FG controlled city councils that handed out crazy planning permission during the boom. Are they blameless?
We were all better off under FF even the people coming in from other countries ye are just a bunch of hippacrits
Hi lads sorry to burst your bubble but fianna fail had nothing to do with it , people dont trust enda -plain and simple . By the way if the motion was to abolish Fianna Fail it would have passed!!!
Rubbish. FF have been polling 26-28% in several polls. If there was an election this year Micheal Martin would be looking at forming the Govt.
Your are mistaking your own beliefs as concurrent with the electorates.
Seanie, keep going. You’re a barrel of laughs.
Nothing to do with Fianna Fail as they would have done the same if they were in power. Never forget its them that got us into the current mess. Fingers crossed for the no result
I voted no… My decision had NOTHING to do with Fianna Fail!
The evidence suggests that for most people it did. People looked at the debates and considered who they trusted. Micheal Martin spoke from the heart and made the difference.
This is a game changing victory for defending democracy in Ireland and for Fianna Fail.
How can you speak for most people.are you really suggesting we need fodder from political failures to make our minds up
I saying that people responded to reasoned argument and the leadership provided. Fianna Fail’s base is till around 26-28% and the party worked hard to get that vote out.
People might have wanted a No but it was the FF voter base that took the effort to turn out. Let us not pretend that FF did not drive the result.
As a limerick man I have to say niall Collins is a clown, he desperately wants to be minister for justice when he is clearly more qualified to be the minister for buffoonery.
If Niall Collins what does that say about you a moron perhaps or worse.
English please, are ye related? Both of ye have a problem with the English language.
Drop dead Dalai.
“Ye”
seanie ryan, the fianna fail man who said that if sinn fein got into power that the army and guards would be replaced by ira men.
still rflmfao at that one……….lol………….lmao……………lol lol lol lol lmao……………..aaahhhhhhh ha ha ha
Dalai Obama not your real name I’d say why don’t you show your face and your real name or are you too gutless come on be a man
I voted the way I voted having read and researched myself, not because of some campaign by any of the politicians :)
Bravo, this country needs more people like you. Well done on taking the time to read up on it and going out to vote.
Yeah and yese did a grand job of demolishing the country too lads
What an absolute ass. Its obvious the people didn’t take one single iota notice of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour or Sinn Fein. Even the bloody socialists supported the government on this for the love of god! The Seanad was always going to be a difficult one and I for one was surprised polls suggested it would be a landslide. Asking people to abolish a parliament in favour of possible further reform of an existing one which was given very poor reform in the past two years on the back of major reform promises given during the election? I for one didn’t feel comfortable with that proposal and would prefer the very very slim chance that the Seanad may well one day actually do something useful in its current form and I hoped (but don’t expect) reform of the parliament if we voted No.
Fianna Fail were the party who came out with various reports on reform and the Seanad, including one which gave the costing for the running of the parliament. They switched sides late on purely for political reasons and not for the good of the people. This is a party that has not changed since being booted out of office.
Just like when they came out against the property tax having signed up to it under the Troika MOU… ‘Its the wrong time…’
Bunch of hypocrites… It’s becoming next to impossible to support any political party in the country. A new political party / perspective is needed (I don’t mean a party like Direct Democracy or a form of ‘New Labour’ mind…)
FF didnt even put together legimate reasons for a NO vote … what a bunch of noobs …. we should have a vote to abolish the dail
Fianna Fail, do not think for one moment that a no vote here, should it be realised, is an endorsement of your party or your arguments during the campaign. You changed opinion on this topic mid stream, had ample time in power to address reform. Also, political point scoring rhetoric against other parties is nauseating, you scrotes.
My 7 year old couldn’t understand why anybody would want to vote to abolish the shannon. Poor lad genuinely thought that was going to be end of the Shannon river for ever!
People voted no as a vote against the government and Enda Kenny. Some of course there were those fearful of the legal implications of abolishing the Seanad. Some just wanted to see it stay. Whatever peoples reasons, FF had little or nothing to do with peoples decision. The Irish people are waking up, our memories are little longer than these traitors think.
Angela look in the mirror before you call people traitors
Angela you are fairly deluded if you think FF hadn’t a big hand in the no victory I’d say the most of ye sending in messages are the far left and Sinn Fein lapdogs
It’s the people that regardless of political affiliation that voted No or Yes. We still care that little much about democracy. Fianna Fáil sh*t all over the constitution for years. I didn’t because of any party you you fool.
Aaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha Fianna Failure are still deluded
I voted no but never in my lifetime would give FF a vote.
FF trying to big up M Martin . He’s a throwback to Bertie and Cowen and they must feel at this stage that he’s a liability. Result has sfa to do with so called FF campaign
The audacity of FF to think that they swayed people to vote no. my no vote had nothing to do with their opinions on the abolition of the Seanad. can’t get over the cheek of them.
Agree with Hazel…..Whatever kudos FF got by the good No vote , they blew it with arrogant statements like that..
Those FF statements assume that people looked to their politicians for guidance…Wrong Lads…People used their brains for guidance…!!
FF are sewer rats.
You would know about sewer rats being one yourself
That the best you can do you, FF pond life?
I voted of my own accord. But it’s nice to see enda getting one in the eye. Wonder will he show his face or will state commisar bryan dobson be allowed to show it
There’s no end to this party’s arrogance, why do they still even have a voice, the people keeping them up must all live in burrows.
FF can go f**k off.
The blind arrogance of the Fianna Fail mindset never cease to amaze & disgust me! I voted No precisely because I dread the thought of their ilk having unfettered power if re-elected to government. The Seanad needs reform but the citizens of this country also need a system of checks & balances in place to maintain an eye on government policy. Mary Robinson was never an elected politican but she came to prominence as a Senator. A reformed Seanad with people of her integrity could make a powerful contribution to this country …
What a completely deluded individual and party. The smugness and arrogance of FF hasn’t gone away in the slightest.
No argument won or lost this, it was a shite ballot paper that caused mass confusion.
people couldn’t understand a simple ta/nil, put the x in the box?
Don’t be so quick to take credit Fianna Fail….a No vote in the Abolition of the Seanad Referendum wasn’t in any way a vote of confidence in the Fianna Fail party.
I voted to keep the Senate not because of FF, but in spite of FF, wanting to keep it!
I voted no, because what believed not because of what the shower of wasters in FF said
FF put this country on its knees… They done more damage than good in the past. I hope to good God people remember the shower of idiots they are. They had nothing to do with my No vote full stop
I went against party allegiances by voting no. Reform the whole system
The Irish electorate had a vote to reform government, they chose to continue to be governed by the elite for the elite
The mind boggles
Anybody heard from ritchie rogers today? Has he gone and changed his name again?
No votes have everything to do with ff, end of story. Why didn’t they reform it when the were in power and by look of their support they’ll be back in power again to make another of the country and the people of this country deserve it.
Yeara ya, FF made me do it.
They are certainly the party of demolition. Can’t argue with that.
‘The party’s diretor of elections’ – ‘diretor’ should read ‘director’.
says the unionist fcukpig dictator Patrick lyons.
Forgive my language. I wish those w&nkers would F@@k off. Martin had absolutely no hand in my decision to vote no. Hateful b@stards the lot of them and this is coming from an ardent FF supporter. Never again!
Collins you idiot , just how thick do you think we are . The creeping mistrust of the political system which contributed to the no vote is largely based on our experience of the incompetence of your party . … You and your like make me want to f”@&£&@” scream
Shut up Seanie… FF like new Labour in England did just looked at the polls and backed a winning horse! Now they have succeeded in their heads to separate themselves and their so called policies from FG and create a viable opposition! It’s crap and I don’t buy it!
Kevin
Fianna fail may not have swayed ever voter but at least they provided opposition, alternatives and debate.
The past failures during the tiger were due to a failure of genuine opposition, debate and contrary opinions. Those who failed to oppose and do their paid duty of opposition unburdened by governing are now ministers. The duty of the opposition is to oppose and challenge for the good ofall and as such are the key regulators in democracy… Let’s see no if our leaders can provide real reform as they promised…..people are judged by their promises…..oh wait….
So Robert now ff are to blame for all the cuts the present government have to make! I know your answer: no. The truth is ff made a shite of the country when they were in power and history will show they’ll do it again and again. And it was nothing to do with the opposition. And what did seanad do, sweet fa
The Government won no matter what the result, If the people had voted YES then they achieved their objective and as it looks the people voted NO, the people can no longer moan about the Seanad. A WIN-WIN for Enda peeps!
I think the FF people will be delighted that they were on the winning side. Their battle is with SF and I think SF backed the wrong horse. They went from a pro-Seanad stance to a view to abolish in the past few years. Similarly, I think SF picked the yes side for the very same motives, they got it wrong.
However, you cannot entirely dismiss the FF contribution to this victory. They still maintain significant grassroots support and membership throughout the country and with a victory of less than 48,000 votes, you can’t completely discount their contribution to the debate and subsequent outcome.
I wouldn’t be going that far, Niall.
have your say