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Updated at 11.42
AS FINE GAEL wakes-up to defeat in the Seanad abolition referendum this morning party strategists will be trying to figure out where it all went wrong.
But they need not look far given that many within the party and some within the campaign itself believe it was not a well run affair nor were the arguments for abolition well made.
One party source described it as a “dreadful campaign”. One member of the campaign itself said that it was “wrong campaign, wrong messaging”.
Enda Kenny’s surprise announcement four years ago that he wanted to abolish the upper house was enshrined in the programme for government in 2011. But it still surprised many that coalition chose to run a referendum this month with the Budget less than a fortnight away and many other pressing matters on the agenda.
Right from the off the party’s decision to highlight the €20 million that it claimed would be saved annually if the upper house was abolished was considered to be a mistake by many.
Last month one Fine Gael TD, who declined to be named, told TheJournal.ie: “I don’t understand why they are sticking to it when it is so patently untrue.”
“We had discussions at a parliamentary party level before the summer and the €20m figure was discussed a lot and yet we had our first meeting after the summer and the f***ing posters are up with the €20m figure on it.”
Concerns were also raised about the message that Fine Gael pushed in the campaign: that abolition would save money and mean fewer politicians. But party strategists believed that the positive reception from focus groups to these messages was the right formula.
Even when the Oireachtas Commission said it was not possible to estimate the “net actual savings” achieved by abolishing the Seanad, Fine Gael continued to hammer this message, arguing it was up to the government to realise that €20 million saving in full.
One party source said that the €20 million was “highly disputed” but driven by headquarters.
The party’s daily media events were also caused some unease. Bizarre photocalls were organised nearly every single day of the campaign with props ranging from giant jigsaws to a Beatles tribute band.
At one point Fine Gael suggested to Labour that it get involved in similar media events but the junior coalition partner declined.
The parties did not appear to present a united front during the referendum. Many within Labour were against abolition including every single one of its senators and Labour did not hold daily media events, unlike Fine Gael.
For all of the talk of lacklustre campaigning the reality was that, as turnout shows, the majority of the public were simply disengaged from the campaign.
An Ipsos MRBI poll in the Irish Times this week showed that a fifth of those who were voting No were doing so because they did not trust or like the government. That will be a worry for Fine Gael particularly.
This defeat will be widely viewed as a blow to the Taoiseach who was flagging in the polls when he put forward this radical idea in late 2009 as the leader of the main opposition party.
He was not able to convince the public it was a good idea and he was not prepared to debate it with the opposition on live television.
Kenny defended this decision yesterday but there’s no doubt it damaged the party’s argument.
This article was first published at 7am.
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The result of the Seanad referendum highlights some real home truths for FG;
- they showed total disregard for the electorate in how they orchestrated this campaign,
- the electorate DO NOT TRUST this Govt, either as a collective or as individual politicians,
- people are fed up being treated as pawns in an economy rather than citizens in a society,
- the entire parliamentary system needs an overhaul, people could not stomach the thought of this shower having complete autonomy,
- Enda has categorically been exposed as the puppet he is, his personal act & he is too incompetent to be trusted to debate it
I hope the local elections reflect more of the power each vote has in keeping these amateur politicians in check.
‘Pawns in an economy rather than citizens in a society’
That’s the most succinct and accurate statement I’ve ever read on this site. Well said Michael.
Excellently put Michael.
Great comment Michael.
That’s all well and good Michael but the corollary to treating the result as a defeat for the government based on their record is accepting that it was a win for FF
Sir well said
Your comments sum up the situation perfectly.
Politicians of every hue & persuasion cannot be trusted Denito, that is the only real conclusion to be drawn from this result.
Warren Buffett, the American billionaire, proposed that any politician who fails to achieve or implement 75% of their electoral promises would automatically be ineligible for reelection – there’s the first article in the new reformation of our parliamentary system!
@Micheal, excellently put.
What’s your alternative to having politicians run the country then Michael?
Tell me Michael which other Government treated you like a citizen rather than a pawn? It sure as help did not start with this one.
@Michael, your comment puts it all in perspective.
I voted YES as I truly believe the Seanad to be a dysfunctional undemocratically institution, primarily clustered by a bunch of failed wannabe politicians. I voted YES because I did not trust the call for ‘reform’ by politicians to be meaningful. However I cannot feel disheartened by the success of the No vote. As I feel the No vote was the democratic decision by the majority of my fellow country men and women. For the first time in my voting life I am not entirely disappointed or disheartened that the outcome of a referendum did not conclude the way I wished. I take solace in the victory of the No vote, I believe it was an expression of anger and a means of protest towards the dysfunctional undemocratic running of our country by Fine Gael and Labour parties and that can only be positive. We must also send a message to Fianna Fáil in the midst of their delusional joy, we have forgotten. I congratulate those of you who voted No and the powerful message that sends, we must extend that No to NO MORE!
SHOULD READ….. to Fianna Fáil …we have…NOT….. forgotten
One thing both YES or NO voters share is an interest in parliamentary reform. That’s some cause for optimism.
Not true Denito. Everyone knows that FF jumped on the bandwagon….personally I think the no vote might have been bigger if they hadn’t got involved !
Not so. It is in fact a non sequitur.
All very true Michael, but the big problem for this country come election time next time out is ,do we vote back into government the party whose actions brought this country to its knees and put it in hoc for generations to come,and expect them to solve the problems they themselves created in the first place,if people cant see a future in this state because they cant trust politicians to run the country, like my own family many years ago,it looks like emmigration will be the only option left for a lot more people.
Someone give that guy a cookie !!
Didn’t Charlie McCreevy describe the SSIAs as being good for “citizens” and when warned of its pitfalls he said that people were not to be treated as economic entities…oh well. He was great at managing the economy…unsustainable public spending and a narrow tax base which went tits up.
I think FF will spin it that way Denito, but I don’t think anyone outside of diehard FFers will believe it for a second.
i also voted yes but was delighted when the no came through, my heart was with the no side but i used the head at the ballot, its strange, i would have been disappointed if the yes side one, well done ireland for finally growing a pair!
Richardmccart the world economy collapsed and any party who had control had to deal with the problem, any party who was elected thereafter had to deal with the problems. Its not about the problems, it’s how you deal with the problems that matter. Most politicians are in it for thr money, their own purposes, we are are now responsible for the debts as our government negotiated the deal on our behalf putting other people before their citizens.
Delighted with the result. I expect all those FG senators who voted for this amendment will resign from the Senate? Also given what was said about the senate by FG I would have thought for most FG senators their position is now untenable.
Could it be the biggest coup in our history. Under the radar our sovereign courts have been set up for mass evictions and repossesions. Enda troika kenny made to many glaring mistakes.And can anybody tell me what is going to happen in the courts.It is just to corny. I certsinly hope i am wrong
Unfortunately Jane national politics is a zero sum game. A setback for one party (in this case FG) is always a benefit to their opponents (in this case FF).
You people writing posts must think the people who voted no do not have a mind of their own.
Get a life.
FF shouldn’t treat it as a victory I think. I voted no and believe me, FF had no part to play in my decision and I would presume the same goes for the majority that voted no.
Well FF urging a No caused me to worry if I was doing the right thing, but in fairness to them I don’t think they could be accused of jumping on a bandwagon when every poll before the referendum showed them as picking the losing side. They shouldn’t congratulate themselves on causing the No win, but at least Michael Martin bothered to debate the issue whereas Dame Enda’s people wouldn’t even allow journalists record his thoughts on it.
Enda is a bully within the party, he lacks the intellect to debate. His growing arrogance and willingness to submit to a European agenda has turned me right off FG. The adherence to a party whip means there’s no point in local candidates promoting what they stand for, they just do what they’re told. All senators who voted for the referendum must be forced to resign.
A victory too for Southsiders, barring Senator Norris of course.;-)
They won’t care about re selection , they’ve got the €3000 a week in the bag …sorted
That was practically a dictionary definition, Michael. Well said.
Where did it all go wrong? Well for a start their arrogance is one of the things that cost them.
It would also help if Fine Gael stopped lying to the public.
it didn’t cost them anything, it has only cost us.
Yes it’s cost was the retention of democracy. Win.
That subhead: the Blueshirts’ campaign has not “floundered”. I think what you mean is that it foundered, a nautical derivation from a vessel that runs aground.
Check your dictionary, and be careful of homonyms.
“Well for a start their arrogance is one of the things that cost them.”
BINGO. My mate went to one of the fine gael information meetings. A couple of people brougt up the 20 million figure, only to be told by Frances Fitzgerald (a minister, lets not forget) that the figure is 20 million, and thats it. There was no further discussion on the matter. Arrogant and unconvincing. They lost this referendum, the NO side did not win it.
run! its the vocabulary cops!
Please explain how the Seanad is democratic in any way?
I think that flounders works equally well
“to proceed or act clumsily or ineffectually”
http://i.word.com/idictionary/flounder
It’s much more commonly used than founder.
Karl is floundering with his founderisms.
Tick tock, tick tock. Not long now Enda!
I don’t think Enda is too bothered about getting kicked out at the next election. He’s got his huge pension to look forward to. He’ll just be sitting back on his leather recliner chair in his country retreat with a glass of champers and a bag of popcorn as he watches with amusement as the next shower of pr*cks continue the policies of Europe while diminishing our quality of life. The only losers here are us unfortunately.
What a depressng comment, but you are not wrong. This referendum result was a badly needed kick in the boll0x to the government with their arrogance. A good day for Ireland.
endas already lined up for a top job in europe thanks to his arse kissing of merkel and the frog dwarf sarkozy, he’ll get his dail pension, his leaders bonus, his taoiseachs’ pension, and no doubt his teachers pension, and a nice big fat pay check from the european parliament . “were all in this together” my arse we are!
And his private pension funded by tax payers money
Tick tick my arse. Have people really forgotten what state the current govt inherited this country from 20 years of crap from FF!
People banging on about reform and change, less than 40% showed what they think when it comes to voicing opinion. We get what we deserve, it’s the 60% who will now be the most vocal. This country does my head on sometimes
First order of business in the next government has to be the implimentation of a tax rate of 80% on ALL state pensions for ALL political classes on anything above €50,000. The we can reclaim the bulk of what these moronic swine are removing from our pockets every week that they are ‘retired’.
Most importantly Seanad reform is on the Government’s agenda which is what I think voters on Thursday really wanted.
I agree, practically no one wanted it to stay them same but the vast majority of ‘NO’ supporters wanted reform and we’re angry such an option was not on the ballot
I am not sure it is on the agenda. The secret huddle around Kenny, Bruton and Noonan whose names we do not even know will be thinking more about how to get FG through the local elections next year now and real political reform will not be part of that. It would be very easy to reform the Seanad without a referendum by just changing the legislation about who elects the 43 members currently elected by county councillors and when that election takes place and by putting a provision inlaw that if you vote for the university seats you cannot vote for the vocational seats. But it won’t happen.
Reform is a red herring. Nobody mentioned reform before this.
@tom it was mentioned hundreds of times and totally disregarded by fg, have you been under a rock?
Politicians regularly underestimate the maturity of the electorate. “The people have spoken, the bastards” springs to mind. A reminder that it’s not the politicians who lead, it’s the people. Kenny just proved it again.
Paul, I’ll give you a 100 eurs if you can find any current senator discussing reform before Enda’s abolition speech in 2009. Easy money if you’re telling the truth.
Before 2009? What has that got to do with the previous comments? You said “Reform is a red herring. Nobody mentioned reform before this.” By ‘this’ you must have meant 2009 tom because there has been plenty of talk about it recently, its hard to know what point you are trying to make.
That’s when Seanad abolition was mentioned. Zero talk of reform before that.
Paul, you kinda just proved my point. There was loads of talk of reform…but ZERO before abolition was on the table. Ask yourself who from the No side wanted reform enough to canvass for Seanad reform before they thought it would be abolished? :)
According to David Norris, he has been campaigning for Seanad reform over the last 30 years. Nobody seemed to discuss abolition until Enda Kenny brought it up in 2009 and went on a solo run.
As always, I’m open to correction.
I know what you mean, Vocal, but in fairness it couldn’t have been on the ballot paper, as in a referendum you can’t have such an option. You can either change the constitution or not.
Karl, you are correct on both coynts. DN has “mentioned” but not campaigned for Seanad reform. By contrast Diarmuid Ferriter, Michael McDowell & Bertie’s gang have done f*** all…and will revert to doing f*** all.
You know you’re in trouble Enda when Michael McDowell is accusing you of arrogance
Im just surprised that Enda didnt claim that the proposal was lost because people were confused. No doubt it will be said at some stage.
Already has been on Marian Finucane yesterday morning
Claiming now that the ballot papers confused us !!!
This was Enda Kennys personal initiative, his crusade from day one.
A lot has been made (quite properly) of his refusal to engage in the debates leading up to voting day, and the effect this had on the defeat of the proposal, and indeed on his capacity to lead the country for much longer (insofar as he has been much of a leader up to now).
No doubt these rumbles will continue as the inquest into the shambolic episode gets into full steam.
And how is he going to square the cost to the country of this failed fiasco, a cost that lies squarely on his shoulders.
Pathetic soundbites about the people’s choice won’t wash this time, without his direct intervention four years ago this money would not have been wasted.
No longer will he or anyone in this government be able to point the finger at anyone else about the needless waste of the country’s money as long as he remains Taoiseach.
It looks like a gilt edged opportunity for the Labour party to demand something FG won’t give, Kennys head, and cut and run before the budget.
What a mess.
Dreadful campaign … How much did it cost I wonder ???
€21 million.
Where does that figure come from?
Pulled it from my drumm, same as the original figure.
FG campaign is paid from FG funds.
Glad you think that Tom. The rest of remember them using public funds to sway a BIASED yes vott on the children’s ref.
Ryan, are you saying that FG posters etc were paid by funds other than FG funds? If you’re saying that tax revenue was used, that’s a very serious accusation. Off to the cops with your evidence. (Unless you’re lying.)
Enda and Fine Gael insist the Seanad is “broken” so the people have told them to fix it. They need to fix the Dail too – and fixing doesn’t mean a time and motion exercise.
How come you didn’t want it fixed before now?
I reckon no “reformers” will ever answer that question.
a bit sore that your beloved blueshirts were hammered are we tom? you can keep denying the calls for reform all you want, thats what fg did and look what happened, this is a great result for ireland, not because the second house has any actual use but because the people finally grew a pair
Tom are we just a tad bit cranky today cos the invincible blue shirt and true patriots that are the FG party got spanked hard by the people and now instead of taking it like a man you continue to blame everything from FF to probably global warming but the reality is edna and co simply dont have the trust of the people and now its been laid bare
i have said from day 1 of this government that they would not survive till 2014, i was starting to think i was wrong…
I’d love reform. In fact I know that whatever reform happens would not happen without this referendum. More importantly I would have loved reform which would have made this referendum unnecessary. :)
@Tom Neville How do you know he didn’t want it fixed before now? Are you gifted with omniscience?
@Noel I know because…well the absence of any reform campaign before abolition was a possibility. :)
Folks despise this govt. Simple. They crucify us with austerity for banker buddies criminality which has gone unpunished still.
well said, FG promised reform, they delivered the opposite since getting into power. People are tired and weary of the way Ireland is run for the maximum benefit of the rich, and a race to the bottom as an exploitation ground for greedy corporations and big businesss.
Whe FG took power I honestly but naievely thought that they would act in the interest of the peeps. I thought kenny was a bit of a cabbage but the he’d at least have some degree of intergrity. It now in fact seems that he is extremely incompetent, a liar and a puppet with no real power.
Another strange point was how far off the mark the opinion polls were.
And how could the bookies get a two horse race so badly wrong.
All coincidence no doubt.
The bookies don’t make predictions. They just follow the money.
But the opinion polls say FG is the most popular party in the State, surely these can’t be wrong aswell?
They ignored thejournal polls, which seem fairly accurate.
It must baffle the spin doctors alright, why indeed did their strategy not work. I hope it is because we are becoming aware of the difference between reality and hype. But no doubt they are working on new ways to manipulate the public mind. How much did this exercise cost I wonder?
€20 million apparently
I’m not normally a Sinn Fein voter but I was thinking of giving them a vote this time around. They have people of high calibre like Pearse Doherty and Mary Lou McDonald. However, since they supported the abolition of the Seanad I’m having second thoughts. I think they may have lost a lot of floating voters like me. Some explanation is urgently required if they want to shake this off.
Paul
I think a lot of left voters out there are unsure who to vote for. Labour are gone and many don’t want to touch Sinn Féin. There is no other real alternative.
I think no matter who we elect the agenda will be dictated by Europe. Maybe we should change our voting address to a German one.
Paul, I think to be fair, SF were always pushing for reform, but in the absence of that choice they opted for abolition as the lesser of 2 evils
I don not think SF have lost many voters at all from their backing of the Seanad abolition in this referendum. I’m presently a SF supporter with a vote in the Seanad and chose to vote for retention for the main reason of giving this government a bloody nose. I was hoping that it would be retained just to see how FG would go about reforming a Seanad that they called hopeless, undemocratic, toothless, beyond reform etc etc.
I firmly believe that FG just don’t have the capacity or ability to actually properly reform the Seanad yet they cannot stand by and not reform after everything they said about the Seanad during the campaign. It’s going to be fun times ahead, and it is going to be a stick to beat FG with until they set in motion how they are going to reform it, and in what timeframe.
I disagree. The lesser if two evils would be to keep and push for reform.
Paul ! “High Calibre”….Mary Lou? You must be joking right ???
She can definitely debate Michael.
Fine Gael’s cynical and patronising arguments (which were an insult to the electorate’s intelligence) have failed. They were dishonest with the electorate and ‘dumbed down’ the arguments for abolition.
People saw it for what it was, populist nonsense.
Does populist not imply it was popular with a majority? How so the Referendum was lost then?
I can smell another “the people didnt understand the facts or they would have voted our way, lets hac
Ve another vote” moment coming on. It wasnt a bad campaign, it was a bad idea!
Not more than any other time. Won’t be rerun but reform will probably require a new referendum…and nobody actually wants reform.
Tom, so you know what everyone thinks?
“The actions of men are the greatest interpretors of their thouhhts.” -John Locke. If nobody does diddly for about Seanad reform for 80 years, why is it a priority now?
Belle Enda!
Enda now should know what is coming at the next general election as should all the backbenchers ,the result gives them time to clear out their desks and make way for new blood. This is what lies will do to a party, and Labour can forget about their future as they dont have one .
Poor Enda he is a bit like Frank Spencer .( Betty I think Ive got it wrong again )
Actually I have heard that his Mrs is a very shrewd operator politically, behind the couch as it were ( you could hardly have a throne in Mayo !)…she must have been asleep !!
Surely the fact that they based a campaign message not on the foundation of truth but actually based it on what they believed the message was that would swing it due to focus group feedback is reprehensible in the extreme. They probably started with a notional saving figure of 5 million & worked their way up until the focus group feedback was that the lie was big enough to vote yes. Says it all about Enda & Co’s dirty brand of politics.
Focus groups can be useful research tools but the way some political parties use them is akin to using a screwdriver to hammer a nail then bitching that it didn’t do the job well.
I am awaiting his cunning, political profound and powerful reply to this claim that rivals the “I would only embarrass you” retort…that’s right folks he will use the good old “it got lost in the post” excuse
Most people would regard 20 million well spent and 60 politicians usefully employed if, and the ‘if’ is critical, they could seriously believe they could get better quality governance as a result.
The reform of the political process – promised in their manifestos by both coalition parties – has not been delivered. Dissatisfaction with party “machine” politics is a dominant factor in the NO vote and that includes a still palpable dissatisfaction with the Fianna Fáil party. Getting rid of the Seanad was seen by many as a sleight of hand, attempting to distract the electorate from the lack of substantive reform of the Dáil. For many NO voters it is not about less government but better government.
Exactly what reform do you want? We hear about it all the time?
This mentions a few things that could be done to improve government without any referenda:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/proposals-for-d%C3%A1il-reform-just-don-t-cut-it-1.1528433
This is from the FG Manifesto:
• Initiation of legislation and guillotines. We will give committees the power to introduce legislation, while a new 10 Minute Rule will allow backbench TDs to introduce their own Bills. We will also tackle the huge over-use of guillotines to ram through non-emergency legislation.
The Coalition have used more guillotines not less for non-emergency legislation which pretty much sums up their commitment to reform.
Spend some time here – plenty of practical information about how we might get better governance:
http://politicalreform.ie/category/topic/dail-reform/
I just hope that the calls for reform dont go unanswered and the reform agenda gets kicked further and further down the road. This is the time for politicians to begin to engage with the electorate about real reform in the entire political system. I think the campaign (and the misinformation within it) there also needs to be the establishment of a permanent independent Electoral Commission. There were some issues in this referendum that some had difficulty with such as the actual words of the proposal. It was counter-intuitive to vote NO to keep something.
I was finding it difficult to figure out who I was going to vote for in #LE14 before this vote. Now, the pool of political parties to vote for has lessened again. Think the will be large increase in number of Indps and Others elected at that election. Think it will be similar to next General Election. My guess is we will be voting in GE mid/late 2015. Wont last til 2016. Would be very impractical to have election campaign during commemoration of 1916.
I doubt very much if there will be reform. It will be dressed up as reform. Even Norris himself said afterwards that the Seanad should be for the elites. His exact words. Norris wouldn’t want to go before the people like a TD as he might not be elected. People had a great chance to make real reform but they decided against it.
At least tell the truth…. He said they should all the democraticallty elected but they should be elites…. as in people who are at the top of their fields anf not the type of party jackeens we have in the lower house….. he is actually highly in favour of full democratic elections and the removal of all appointed seats, god irish politic is so full of lying one upmanship
You have agreed with what I said!
What field is Norris at the top of?
What voting power would you like them to have?
civil rights,……………..?
Ah christ
Ok he did do a lot for the gay rights movement. However I think the reform we will see will be a list system and then people would vote from that list. And what power would they have. Too little and we have the same thing. Too much and they start to interfere with the Dail. You have a situation like Anerica now.
And womens and childrens right, and students rights…. himself Higgens, Mary Robinson, Keven Myres and many more like these…. don’t disagree that reform will be slow if it even comes, but many have already voted overwhelming to make the seanad a democratic house but the dail has never moved forward on it. just simply made the point that you dont have to mis quote or mislead to make your point :) there is enough fact out there to make your valid and succinct point without changing what was said
Fair enough Daithi but I get the feeling we will be waiting for this reform.
Now… I couldn’t agree with you more :)
Taking away a part of the Oireachtas without serious improvement of the rest of it is not reform.
I wonder is all this part of that famous……….. 5 point plan…………lets get Ireland working again. You cant beat democracy. ………..
” PADDYS ” Revenge, wait until the Local and European elections
Not sure we’ll see Seanad reform in the next few decades, the political wheels crawl rather than rotate.
Enda what about Paddy ! remember telling us prior to general election Paddy needs to know.
As usual these clowns need the people to vote them into power and once their treat us whit contempt and think where so stupid we don’t see them trying to pull the wool over our eyes silly little clowns.
Based on arguments for the Seanad abolition put forward during the campaign, that has been rejected by the people, then the moral position is for FG , Labour and other ‘YES’ senators is to resign en mass with immediate effect from either their party or the Seanad and thus demonstrate to the voters their true character.
What went wrong? Kenny underestimated the intelligence of the majority of the Irish public and their ability to see that, as a bitch of his Euro-owners, he lies through his teeth and can no longer be trusted with anything he says. He needs to go, now, along with his government. They should be abolished!
Enda Kenny the biggest joke in Dáil Éireann how his he the Taoiseach of this country a joke of a man and a complete idiot
Minimum wage for senators, no wages for counsellors ,
The upper house doesn’t need to be democratic, it needs people interested and competent , the Dail is democratic (rightly so), but is full of characters without substance, the second house needs to be different if it is to be effective
We need people who would die for this country to take over, What would it take to get rid of these money grabbing parasites.
New electors
Suspension of democracy.
I’d also like to add my vote for not trusting or liking the government
Enda Kenny got into government on broken promises
How about a referendum on how much TD’s get paid
You’d get a 100% turn out
And how much money would be saved??
A gap in the ditch for FF to run through. Kenny is going to hand those f ****** the title again. And labour going tge way of tge Greens.
Hello a FF/SF coalition. Its frightening.
no more frightening than whats there now, go for ddi, vote for yourself
REMEMBER THIS ENDA !
1. Help protect and create jobs
2. Keep taxes low while fixing the deficit;
3. Deliver smaller, better government;
4. Create a completely new, fairer, more efficient health system; and
5. Overhaul the way our political system works to stamp out cronyism and low standards.
Those who founded the State sought to create the economic foundations for our political independence.
The purpose of the next Government, and the next generation, will be to turn again to that task. I commend
this Manifesto to you as an important step on this journey.
Enda Kenny
Leader
Fine Gael
2 l
I think no 3 would be in line with Seanad abolition.
not all labour senators were against abolishion Loraine Higgins was in favour but then she’s nu-labour
abolition
And very anxious to keep in with the powers that be in Labour. If u read The Connaught Tribune she appears to be at every dogfight in Galway and always manages to get her name in the paper
It didn’t go through, that’s life. FG are still the party of choice, the rest are just plain daft. Gerry, come on, what’s the craic.
Who said FG are the party of choice???? Some opinion poll… well, we all know how inaccurate opinion polls are now!
Jazz do you spend your life trolling go get a real life and stop boring us all. You are predictable now
I think you’ll find the electorate said FG were the party of choice. It’s called an election. :)
Tom they weren’t FF thats why they got elected ,oh yeah that and the lies they told.
toms effort at being smug over fg is almost endearing, poor thing :)
No Tom they were the party of chance. The chance that they migh, just might do what they said they would, they didn’t. SURPRISE!
Jazz or whoever you are you seem to be hell bent on winding people up with some crap about popular party and how great FG are I wonder would you have the balls to go door to door and actually ask people face to face if the great FG and enda and most politicians in general are as highly regarded because I think you would be in for a shock!
Past definite tense methinks
So you’re saying the will of the electorate should be ignored?
Perceived result: Seanad reform is inevitable.
Real result: Seanad reform will be as high a priority as it was up until closing the Seanad was a possibility.
Net result: undemocratic arm of parliament will continue to give a FU to the electorate who reject candidates.
You stupit people you did not vote the way the goverment told you to
Now we have to do it all over again .Bold children.
L.O.L
It was the idea of gutting the Constitution and destroying our bicameral system that was ‘dreadful’, not merely Fine Gael/Labour/Sinn Fein’s intellectually-vacuous campaign.
Michael any chance you might be free to run the country. The goons have no clue. You be doing all of us a favour.
Where’s Richie Rodgers ?
Well said Micheal, you certainly speak for my household and I am sure most of the nation with the comments you have posted.
I find it quite amusing that everyone is giving out about FG and Enda Kenny and Labour, yes I don’t agree with everything that they have done, but I would say I wouldn’t be confident in any of the parties FF got us into the mess and left FG to deal with their sh@& and SF well don’t want to comment on what I think of the leaders and their past. Also I’m sure all the senators are delighted there was a no vote they are getting well overpaid for a nice handy little number.
This referendum was brought as a cover by FG/L to hide the seriousness of the governments unfairness towards the Irish people. I think though that the people saw this coming and did not fall for this notion.
Enda didn’t want the Senate abolished. So he sabotaged his own campaign. Electorate mugged. Q.E.D.
Deform Alliance Celebrates No Vote With Guest D.J. Cora Sherlock http://mentioningthewar.blogspot.ie/2013/10/deform-alliance-celebrates-no-vote-with.html
Bad hair day Enda. Try and look your age.
Now that the Seanad (that’s the crowd that couldn’t protect us from one of their own stroking us. And are expected to protect the country. )
Are saved.
Could we see how the 20million is divided amongst them.( all new mobile phones to start)
have your say