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Updated 23.00pm
TAOISEACH ENDA KENNY has said the HSE has “a lesson to learn” in the area of medical card renewal as it emerged today that Multiple Sclerosis sufferer Marie Fleming was asked by the HSE to provide proof of her condition in order to have her application renewed.
This year, in a high profile case, the Supreme Court rejected a challenge by Fleming deciding that she did not have the right to end her own life with help from her partner. In a number of media reports today, her husband Tom Curran said he received a letter asking if their circumstances had changed when his wife’s medical card was due to be renewed and was then asked for proof of her medical condition.
Fianna Fáil’s Michael Martin took the opportunity to raise the topic with the Taoiseach in the Dáil today, referring to the government’s “change in policy” in relation to discretionary medical cards.
He said her case “illustrates what many, many families across the country who have sick people and those with serious medical conditions are experiencing”.
“Thousands more are very anxious and fearful of what the health service has in store,” Martin said.
Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams also commented that the state of a health service is a “good indicator” of how a country treats its citizens.
“This is the worst small country in the western world to be sick in,” he told the Taoiseach.
“A person does not become un-terminally ill”
Kenny said that while he did not have the specific details of Fleming’s case, he understood that she was in receipt of a full medical card, rather than a discretionary one, as she is entitled to it on both income and medical grounds.
He said it is part of the “ordinary renewal process” for medical cards to ask if a person’s illness persists.
However he said “a person does not become un-terminally ill” and that there is “a lesson to learn” from this.
Unfortunately this case points out where a change must occur in the process of renewal so that people don’t have to deal with verification.
Kenny said there should be an “effective and compassionate and understanding process of continuation of the cards”.
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Workers shouldn’t have to pay for private insurance because health care should be covered by all the taxes you pay out of your wages.
I totally agree but I have availed of my Cover quite a few times and will Never give it up as I have seen the trauma people have being through waiting on appointments for well over a year.It`s a fcuk up this country.
At this moment I’m 100% in agreement Paul but if it goes up by the rumoured 20% this year I’m going to have to leave it off!
I agree Paul. But isn’t most of the country on a medical card at this point – or at least a savage percentage? I dropped my VHI 7 or 8 years ago. I’m one of the ‘in limbo’ people.With an aging population, and so med cards, and with the highest birth rate in the EU, and so even more med cards, it’s time to roll our Shorthall’s plans – oh wait – her own party, labour – hung her out to dry.
Reilly has increased the proportion without coverage, and is actively pursuing that policy as far as I can see.
As someone who spent the last year and a half battling cancer and had to study the health service for years, I don’t think the reform plans published by the govt are radical enough.
We need to totally wipe the slate clean and start over with an NHS type model, insurance company middle men in the way just makes things more inefficient, have private as a side option if you want your own room etc but we should have a basic universal free at point of use healthcare system.
When I say start over I DON’T mean change the logo from HSE to INHS and have the same bloated machinary under it, I mean telling them ”your contract is with the HSE, the HSE no longer exists, you can apply to work in the new system if you want, heres a nice redundancy payment, if you strike your barred from application to the new system,good luck”.
Our middle class keeps the country afloat with disproportionate taxes and gets no services in return for those taxes, is it too much to ask we at least give their kids an education and them healthcare…that basic twin core of public services in nearly every other EU state is what we lack.
We ought to be going with the UK-CANADA model, not the dutch model, the US is going with the universal insurance route and look what a disaster that’s turning out to be for them.
National insurance in the UK is 12%. In ireland it’s 4%. The NHS costs the UK £110 billion a year. Next year it will go up to £130 billion. It’s unsustainable. The NHS as we know it today will be gone in 10 years. All parties are afraid to touch it because they will lose votes. We cannot afford it. Thousands more people each year in England take out private medical insurance.
Marc, there is no such thing as a perfect system.
They have complaints just like we do. It’s in peoples nature to complain about public services, no matter how good they are. Ask them if they want to get rid of it, very few will say yes.
The single payer models tend to be way more efficient and cost lest per capita than the mixed public private systems or universal insurance systems for all kinds of reason and there are all kinds of great ways to control costs I don’t wanna make the post too long but there are ways.
The NHS has been continually reformed since it came into existence to make it better, that’s why it’s worked so well, that’s how a system should work, not just be set up then blindly stuck2 no matter what, but continually improved
There are always complaints, but there is a reason nobody in France, UK or Canada will say they want to scrap their system, by and large it works well.
I don’t think the state should own airlines and phone companies, I want a lean smart state, but I think healthcare and education rank alongside law & order as basic duties of the state and I don’t think thats a particularly radical or mental view.
I was talking more about the cost. One the tax payer cannot afford. Money is borrowed each year to keep it going. £1.4 trillion in debt. The NHS will be gone in 10 years.
Ryan,
I agree we don’t want the NHS as it is now.
The NHS as it was 20-25 years ago before it got tied up with targets and paperwork definitely.
Bring back Matrons, Ward Sisters, Nurses and Trainee Nurses.
Ryan,
Agree again. The state should run health, education, defence, policing not privately owned for profit companies.
I’m not in any way knocking the latter but there are areas they don’t belong in, at least not as primary supplier
No it won’t , if Thatcher was not going to touch it nobody will.
Most of the world has universal healthcare, were the odd one out here, not the UK.
When I say the NHS model I mean a single payer model, I don’t mean we should carbon copy every aspect of it
Theres no reason we have to say, for example ”ok now everyone gets a medical card”,, I mean scrapping totally what we have an designing a new system from scratch (I actually think we should be doing that with the entire PS but that’s another days work..). Lots of cost saving ideas could be implemented,
We can still have a lean state and have universal health and education, the two are not mutually exclusive.
The problem has always been, that our ministers are always so terrified of a fight or a strike that they puss-out on real reform, no matter the department. We either need someone with balls in there who does not care about strikes, or make use of the senate and appoint a total outsider as a minister who’s not an elected politican and does not have to worry about backlash.
Rising healthcare costs are a feature of every system, everywhere. To the point where the White House’s website proclaims that it is “Lowering Healthcare Costs By $2 Trillion”, by which they mean only increasing annual costs by $1 Trillion. That is not satire: http://goo.gl/VM1mlw
No one seems willing to get to the heart of the problem, which is that people are demanding lots more care than they used to. 20-25 years ago, when the NHS had matrons and ward sisters and all those things we all like, it cost about 6% of GDP – Thatcher’s “cuts” actually increased its funding by about 20% in real terms. I don’t think people will accept the reductions in care which go with the idea of rolling back.
Or would they? €1690 per year, cash, in exchange for cutting back to 1990 level healthcare? That’s tempting, isn’t it?
ryan
the problem is structural reform and the governments refusal to implement it….it means starting from the top down and there are too many pigs at the trough….the perfect example we saw this week with the top up fiasco
Emily I think part of the reason for higher demand is the western diet has gotten filled with way more crap in the last 25 years. There are other factors like drug patents etc but this is defo a big one.
A meal used to mean meat and veg cooked fresh. Now it means salt and Enumber infused crap frozen and shoved into a ready meal.
‘Sweets’ used to be a now and again ‘treat’ you gave your kids, now they are eating them every day, some all day. As part of the above reforms I’d like to see a major prevention effort to target drug food use among adults and kids. I don’t want to nanny people so not talking about bans or fat taxes per say. But taking away confectionery products from impulse buy locations and having them behind the counter as with other drug products like alcohol and cigs (white refined sugar IS a drug), and banning advertising/sponsorship of them, would cut out a huge amount of the stuff that kids eat, and a lot of adults
People don’t realize the links between the salt infused ready meals, the white refined products like white bread and confectionery and hiking your odds at several serious illnesses from cancer to Alzheimers
@Sean I think with the HSE the bottom is as bad as the top, just like the DSP.
They all have the same problems the rest of our PS has: sloth, laziness, detachment from reality, lack of empathy for those they serve, thinking of the public as an annoyance instead of their bosses, inefficiency, incompetence….which is why I don’t think the Irish PS can be reformed, it needs to be torn down and go back to the drawing board…in fact I’d go as far as to say we should do that with the entire state, I don’t think this country’s ever been governed properly and needs major rennovation from the PS to constitutional changes to the economy…everything needs to change, but nobody in politics now is offering radical change on that scale in a workable way.
USA model is working out quite well don’t believe the republican hype. Krugman did a study on how effectively it is working and the benefits to citizens in California….Irish system is a disaster. People are let out of hospital too early because beds are needed. It’s time we started suing the doctors for letting us out before we are cured to free up beds, And misdiagnosing us because financial restraints mean we can’t have appropriate tests to find out what is wrong.
not sure if comparing the uk to ireland is the best example.
London Population: 8.174 million (2011)
Ireland Population: 4.589 million (2012) source: google
Leo varadkar sitting there laughing while Gerry Adams is talking about a 2 year old baby girl who needs a heart operation.
Is everyone OK with that?
This just goes to prove that those handling medical card applications are muppets. This application system doesn’t work for the people and should be changed. Four months I have had my card delayed because another civil service dept is behind in their work. Three times I have basically filled in the same bs forms and gotten the required documents while being in constant pain.
Those with serious illness have enough to worry about and should not be subjected to this kind of miss treatment.
What I don’t get is people see these disaster stories all the time and the same with student grants, yet go on the radio and talk about means testing as if it’s a silver bullet solution to everything, it’s not, means testing tends to punish people who wanna work, it’s slow, inefficient and people always fall through the cracks. Universal models where the ‘wealthy’ pay it back through their higher taxes are way better. Everyone’s covered, right away, and the wealthy pay it back through taxes, no forms, no 9 month waits while u can’t see a doctor or your locked out of your college library,
The other problem with means testing is the bar is ALWAYS set too low, they portray people on 50k a year as ‘ too wealthy’ which is absurd.
This is all done on purpose This government doesn’t want to help anyone,They only exist for their own self interest
I will pay my Private Health Care Premium before ANY Household/Water Tax! A disgrace for this Woman.Country is run by a gang of fools out of any episode of Killinaskully!!
Why Red Thumbs?
Some people just redthumb anything.
Sure I know!
Kenny- A sick, sniveling weasel of a man, of a sicker Europe!
One of the worst countries regardless of your health…
One of the worst countries for diet.
BEST FANS IN THE WORLD!
But most of the fans are made in China and Japan.
In the words of the wise Senator Clay Davis – “that is some shameful sh*t”
I believe he pronounces it,sheeeeeeeiiiit!
well if people stopped getting ill or sick or breaking bones or whatever there would be no problems what so ever!!!!!
Unbelievable rubbish in the first paragraph. You do NOT have to provide any proof, merely indicate that your condition persists. Tick a box. My sister has one and this is what’s on the renewal form.
There really is no end to the lengths that people will go to be offended.
Alan, you get offended on a regular basis.It must be very tiring for you.
Read the 2nd paragraph where he makes clear that Marie was asked for proof of her condition.
Get your facts straight before you start fulminating!
And because that’s what it says that means it’s true?
Alan if you’re questioning the accuracy of the article, why not do the polite thing and contact the author?
Cannot believe I find myself agreeing with something Adams says. But I am.
@AICS…it takes an honourable person to admit what you have just stated in your comment about Gerry Adams. It has to do with freeing ones mind from being clouded with propaganda filled with unsubstantiated allegations. He deserves a chance!
That’s disgusting.
That must be why when Gerry Adams was sick he went to New York and somehow managed to pay for expensive private treatment even though he apparently only receives the average industrial wage: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gerry-adams-denies-hypocrisy-over-private-us-medical-treatment-28958792.html
He also has about a dozen books published. Ever think he might have paid for his treatment from the income from them? Course not. Too busy scoring smarmy little political points on foot of a mans illness.
If he has income from other sources it defeats the purposes of only taking the average industrial wage. The purpose of their own self-imposed rule is so that members of SF know what it’s like to live on the average industrial wage. If Gerry has income from other sources then that’s fine but it also means he has no idea what it is like for people to live on the average industrial wage. I’ve no problem with Gerry or anybody getting the medical treatment they deserve. However, I do have a problem with politicians claiming they live a certain lifestyle in order for them to score political points.
You will find that the industrial wage policy is set so Sinn Fein representatives remain grounded and in touch with the electorate. That there is no career politicians out to feather their nests at the expense of the country and most importantly that Sinn Fein attract the type of people who genuinely care and believe about the parties policies rather than a greatly inflated income.
Which is exactly my point. Why have a rule to keep politicians ‘grounded’ when such politicians have other sources of income anyway? It doesn’t keep them in touch with their electorate so it’s just a political stunt.
About to get a whole lot worse for people that can’t afford it…before the privatization of the health service, governments deliberately undermine the service, plenty of examples, just look at atos in the UK and what they are doing, some great docs on this.
I don’t see the need for the gifs, just slows everything down.
Does he mean that it is better to be shot in NI rather than the ROI?
Sony Plat, aka Tony Slap aka Padraic Lyons ever miss a chance to have a go at Sinn Fein.
In this instance the message is important not the messenger. Cop on.
Very sharp Norman.
Cheers Sony/Tony/Padraic still haven’t decided if your also “Kenneth” though.
Norman, if I was I would admit to it.
@Sony ‘Brat’
Fr.Reid who passed away recently and one of the most influential mediators during the Peace Process had described Gerry Adams as “a true statesman and possibly the Best politician in Europe.”
Sony sleep on that for tonight…
An opinion that I would totally disagree with. I will sleep soundly because I will not be haunted by the thoughts of being responsible for the deaths of so many souls.
Or Vincent?
Defo not Kendog, he’s a mad west-brit blueshirt cheerleader that didnt have enough voyeurs on BreakingNews so it found itself a new opinion-porn theatre to indulge with his 5-point palm!!
And yet each of them have their private health care policy with VHI paid for by our taxes …….. happy about that? No? Well exercise your right to peaceful civil disobedience and refuse to pay ANY tax you have control over ie Property Tax, Car Tax, TV Licence ….
I was diagnosed with Cancer in early 2012 and as a result had to have an aggressive lengthy period of chemotherapy. I applied for a medical card and declared that I was in receipt of illness benefit of €188 per week and sent in a payment advice from the social welfare advising same along with a bank statement showing the payment going into my account.
I also declared that my employer paid 50% of my salary and included copies of my salary slips.
The HSE wrote to me three months later after I had made several phone calls to them whilst I was sick asking for a letter from Social welfare to confirm that they were paying me illness benefit. I supplied this information. Two months later they wrote to me asking me for a letter from my employer to confirm that they were paying 50% of my salary. I In turn submitted this and at this stage my employer had stopped paying me.
All this went on while I was extremely ill, and had huge health expenses. Approximately 6 weeks after I finished chemotherapy I received a third letter advising that my application was declined.
In fairness. .Sinn Fein would be experts in the Health service. ..look at the amount of people who they have put in hospital
Ireland is a disgrace all the useless bastrds politicians this country has seen and not one has the vision to fix the hse.
Putting more money into the health system does not equate to better care.
The baseline costs are extraordinary. I recently had a minor outpatients procedure. I was in and out in 90 minutes. My health insurer was charged a cool €997 of which €823 (€75 of which was government stamp duty) was charged because I had the use a recliner seat. €823 euros to sit in a waiting room as I waited to see the consultant. This example alone is why our health service has cost overruns. A disgrace and infuriating to think that my taxes are being squandered on a bloated overpriced behemoth that is the HSE.
Why can’t everyone be given a GP Visit card and only those that actually have a medical condition or are on old age pension get the full medical card I can’t understand why lone parents and the unemployed are automatically entitled to a medical card when there’s nothing wrong with them except the fact they can run to the hospital with a sore finger etc wasting resources and money 9 times out of 10 they have more disposable income than those of us that work
Exterminate all those over 70
The man has no shame.
We won’t be hearing from the evil baron for too much longer :)
what the hell is going on in the Journal? they covered The Sinn Fain (Leader) Mr Adams to you :)
While regular yearly medical card assesements are very neccessary there should be a system for bypassing the auto-renewal form being sent to people who are terminally ill. I hope Kenny’s “lessons have been learned” statement turns into action on this and similar matters.
Its cheaper
have your say