Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
Updated at 11.19pm
OFFICIALS FROM THE Central Remedial Clinic (CRC) appeared before the Public Accounts Committee today to answer questions from TDs about the established practice of topping up the salaries of high level staff with money from its fundraising arm, Friends and Supporters.
Directors David Martin and Jim Nugent, as well as former CEO Paul Kiely, appeared before the committee as well as representatives from the HSE and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. Brian Conlan, who up until last week was CEO of the clinic, was not present today but there is talk of his being compelled to appear before the committee.
There were a number of revelations coming out of today’s five hours of hearings as TDs launched an assault on the board, the former CEO, the HSE and anyone else who had knowledge of the situation.
Here’s what we know now:
From the very beginning of the session today, CRC’s Jim Nugent told TDs that the company was and still is ‘contractually bound’ to pay certain levels of pay to some staff.
He said a meeting with the HSE in 2009 did establish pay caps but there were ‘legacy’ contracts that the company was obliged to honour with specific pay levels set out in them and funds from donations were used for this.
If a person has an employment contract, the employer is obliged to pay it,” he said.
It was also agreed with the HSE that the clinic would review salary levels of replacement staff and consult with the HSE on this. However it emerged during the course of the committee hearing that the HSE had not been consulted about the appointment of now resigned Brian Conlan or about his level of pay, which also involved a top-up, until after it had already been done.
(Video: Hugh O’Connell/YouTube)
CRC was supplementing salaries to the tune of €280,000 a year which applied to five members of staff – the CEO, clients service manager, the administrator, the manager of HR and the manager of IT.
As Sinn Féin’s Mary-Lou McDonald pointed out, “the vast, vast, vast majority of the staff were fully in line, full compliant with public sector pay policy”.
Former CEO Paul Kiely was commended for making an appearance today but that didn’t stop TDs from roughing him up a bit.
Shane Ross challenged Kiely on his pension, which will be based on his full salary of €242,000, though just €106,000 of that came from the HSE. His yearly pension, when it kicks in, will be roughly €90,000 a year.
On top of that, Kiely received a tax-free lump sum of €200,000 when he left CRC – which came from the charity fund. Director of Human Resources at the HSE, Barry O’Brien said they were not aware of this.
It emerged in recent weeks that some €3 million was loaned to the clinic by Friends and Supporters, to plug its private pension deficit. In CRC accounts, the loan is described as “unsecured, interest free and not repayable in the short term” and Ross said this was “a gift by any other name”.
It was not just the CRC representatives who suffered a beating from the committee today.
Fine Gael’s John Deasy said it seemed to him that the HSE “knew what was going on”.
You were responsible for policing this – when is enough enough?
If people are going to ask for board resignations, they should look at the HSE.
As previously stated, there was a meeting between the CRC and the HSE about salaries in 2009. From that time there was correspondence between the two on the issue.
Chief Operating Officer of the HSE, Laverne McGuinness, said the HSE understood the position that the clinic had historical arrangements and that they had ask for it to review how they could bring salaries back down to public pay limits.
She acknowledged that the HSE received a letter in 2009 outlining how the CRC was using private fund to part-fund salaries but said the HSE did not respond and so did not agree to any amount of extra funding or where it was to come from.
She also said that the HSE “could not compel the organisation” to implement pay cuts as they had advised the HSE they had legal arrangements in place.
Chairman John McGuinness told HSE representatives in relation to the €16 million the CRC received from the HSE each year: “You did not flex your muscles as a provider of that fund”.
“You’re as guilty as the CRC in terms of what’s going on here and the management of the fund,” he said.
When pushed on the issue, Barry O’Brien conceded that “the HSE made an error”.
The clinic decided, about five years ago, to set up a subsidiary company to manufacture specialised wheelchairs in the hope of making a profit and create an income stream.
Kiely said it was “tantalisingly close to making a profit” when the recession hit and it has just recently been sold.
What emerged today is that €550,000 was taken from the charity fund to set up this company which had to scale down over the years as businesses died out.
Nugent said the sale will likely result recoup €500,000 of that which will be put back into the fund.
A line of questioning from Shane Ross led to that former CEO Kiely revealing that the CRC pays the Mater Hospital around €660,000 to administer a pension fund that does not exist, something now ‘refuted’ by the hospital.
He explained to the committee that the clinic pays the hospital a premium of between 10 and 13 per cent of employees’ gross salaries every year for the public hospital to administer a Voluntary Hospitals Superannuated Scheme or VHSS pension scheme.
However he said “there is no fund that I know of”.
In a statement this evening, the Mater Hospital explained that the fund does exist, and is “in line with Public Sector pension policy, whereby all pensions are funded from current revenues, as is the case with all Public Hospitals”.
Shane Ross described this as “outrageous”, and “absolute madness”.
Kiely said it was a legal agreement that went back about 30 years and he had tried to break it on numerous occasions but “no one wanted to know”.
He also revealed that he was told the CRC was not the only organisation the Mater Hospital does this for.
The HSE’s Barry O’Brien said he was not aware of this and would request a report from the hospital to present to the committee next week.
A number of TDs, including Simon Harris, Kieran O’Donnell, Shane Ross and Gerald Nash, told the directors that their positions is now “untenable” because of the decisions it had made. The committee was told that Kiely has, in fact, already resigned from the board “since the news of this broke”.
Nugent told the committee that the board has been in the process of moving the way it functions “into a new era”.
“I will bring your views back to the board members and we will communicate a response in depth,” he said.
However Nash hit out at Nugent, telling him it was obvious that no lessons had been learned, with the temporary appointment of Joan Hurley to fulfil the position of Operations Director in the day-to day-management of CRC since the resignation of Conlan as CEO. The committee heard that Hurley is one of the staff who has been in receipt of a top-up to her salary.
(Video: Hugh O’Connell/YouTube)
Originally posted at 8.30pm
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
“Decriminalisation” is BS. Turning a blind eye doesn’t bring in legitimate businesses to replace the criminal gangs. If we’re going to do this, we need to grow a pair and fully legalise it.
Hi Emily. I agree fully. Here’s a thought though. As we are still a very conservative country (and a country of closet smokers I might add) government has an opportunity here to capitalise on the demand and bring some regulation. I would offer anybody I dunno say over 21 (to start with) the option to buy a licence to grow 2 plants for personal use. No licence, no smoke. 100€ or something for the year. Everybody wins.
Yup make it fully legal and tax it modestly.
I was going to come out of the closet but the threat of water charges by tax -dodging politicians means I can’t afford to stay in the closet !
What am I now ?
Take money off drug dealers. Take in tax. It has been proven when legalised awareness improves and people seek medical help if required.
I shall be planting at least 4 acres of medicinal cannabis on my farm next year – under my constitutional right to make a living – and if the cops or tax-dodging politicians have a problem with that then I would invite them to step onto my land ……
Now i’m off to town to get a gun licence and a pair of new glasses….
I hope I can afford the glasses – what with water charges and all the extra taxes for the bailout and all I might be just able to afford the gun licence ….still all politicians are welcome on my land ! – Don’t wear fur coats or fox fur though – I mightn’t have my glasses on that day ! …l.o.l.
The last thing this country needs is more potheads.
The problem with regulation is that here in Ireland we are f*ckin shít at regulation!
We have our fair share of potholes,too .
Course Diarmuid.. less potheads more Dikheads like Kenny..
I think I’ll be smoking a big fat one on the March on the 10th. – if the government haven’t fallen by then that is !
Diarmuid, you’re assuming consumption will increase if it’s legalised, which is not usually the case.
Agreed.
Look at what a disaster Prohibition of Alcohol was, America never has as many alcoholics, gangland violence etc as in that period.
Oh Emily Elephant, you are a clever clogs arent you?
Grow hemp/cannabis sativa legally Dermot on your farm. Threat of hemp to the petrochemical, agrichemical and paper industries is the reason Marijuana is illegal.
I know Ink – and I hate paying for fuel knowing that some of it goes to the American war machine !
And I will be growing the fully medicinal type – it’s time to force a constitutional court case on this issue !
If cannabis is a legal medicene then it is only to monopolise and increase the price on the taxpayer to prevent us growing it ourselves –
Can’t grow a medicine – did you ever hear of such rubbish in all your life !
The last thing this country needs is close minded people like yourself :)
Yep agree totally leagalize the stuff it’s basically tax that grows on trees too!
Legalise cannabis before 1st of January. Then we could Ming in the New Year together.
There is a little girl in california whos parents have shrunk her terminal brain tumour to a treatable size with canabis oil. Her doctors are in shock. It has amazing medical properties and should be an option for cancer patients here.
Give this a watch Kate. Dr Sanjay Gupta(A prohibitionist turned activist) on a strain on cannabis called Charlotte’s Web that was designed to help children that suffer from upto hundreds of seizures a day. Quite an interesting watch.
Another very informative documentary on this subject is American drug war 2:Cannabis destiny. What is commonly known as Rick Simpson oil is the medicine in discussion
very good story .seen it a while ago now..
The Royal College of Psychiatrists has advised if you start smoking cannabis before 15, you are 4 times more likely to develop a psychotic illness. The more cannabis you use, the more likely you are to develop psychosis.
We can’t ignore the impact of cannabis on mental health in a conversation on the legalisation of cannabis.
It’s not going to be legal for those under 18. Fyi kids that age can get it now anyway,
It is not legal to sell cigarettes to anyone under the age of 18, yet plenty of teenagers smoke. I’m only saying that in a conversation on legalising cannabis, we should consider all of the pros and cons. Many people, including advocates for legalisation, are unaware of the effects of THC on vulnerable people.
You could say the same about Alcohol
That is not clear evidence of causation. Maybe people who are likely to develop psychotic illnesses are especially likely to use cannabis? We know there’s a correlation between alcohol use and stress levels, but it’s pretty clear that this is people self medicating rather than the other way round.
Adults should be allowed grow a few plants if they so desire.
This is pretty much accepted all over Europe.
Go to any Cancer ward in the country to see the effects of legal tobacco.
Vaporizers take the Carcinogens out of Cannabis.
I agree about young children though not getting their hands on it.
This is such a ridiculous thing to point out. So I suppose if you start drinking alcohol before 15 you will be fine? And the more alcohol you use the more mentally capable you become?
Emily couldn’t you say the same about stressed out people and cannabis?
Chill out man,vegetable rights and peace.
how many of these unde 15s also consumed alcohol along with cannabis?
The more anything you do, the more likely there’ll be a side effect. That argument is redundant.
The benefits of legalisation and taxation outweigh the risks as long as regulation is implemented correctly.
How do you know those people wouldn’t have developed mental illness if they hadn’t been consuming cannabis??? Alcohol causes mental problems for people why not ban that?
So lets keep it illegal and the under 15 yr olds wont be able to get any.. am right Barry..fekin tool..
Neil, your bedrooms on fire.
The money from tax can help educate and treat.
so the royal college of surgeons have managed to get a control group of teenage smokers who apart from their cannabis smoking have never taken any other mind-altering substances and within this control group there was a four times higher incidence of mental illness compared to a control group who didn’t take anything at all !
Bullshit ,non-scientific – stats suiting an agenda that’s all !
I’d love to see it legalised & taxed . . it could be a ‘joint’ operation between the government & inland revenue!
Inland revenue don’t operate in the Republic !
The Royal College of psychiatrists also stand over a multi-billion dollar cash cow big pharma industry already proven to have produced drugs that themselves induce suicidal thoughts to the ‘depressed’ and sufferers of a thousand ‘new’ mental illnesses, that, oddly, they never considered were ‘illness’ untill there was a drug to give for it that could make millions in profits for all involved (yes, including the psychiatrists involved in testing, certifying and prescribing such drugs).
And of course, psychiatric diagnosis, for the most part of the ‘new’ illnesses added to make their diagnosis ‘bible’ – the DSM’ – 5 times weightier a tome than 20yrs ago, is near entirely subjective – no ‘physical’ diagnosis evidence used whatever.
What better prescription for a scam could there be than that? Is it possible there’s any connection to vastly multiplied big pharma profits & vast increase in citizens’ being medicated these last 2 decades?
But, besides the fact that no children, whose brains are still developing, should access psychoactive drugs imo, the numbers who are known to have suffered some +contribution+ (no where is it established that cannabis has been a sole cause) to episodes of psychosis, are very tiny indeed.
And on the other hand, millions that already use cannabis report very significant positive effects to their mental wellbeing.
The case for legalisation remains a no-brainer.
It is why, despite all the efforts by mendacious & just plain ignorant authorities to stop its use, the numbers using have only increased, globally, not decreased.
Where prohibition proves such a massive failure, it is plainly absurd to continue that policy. It is fundamentally undemocratic to do so.
If prone to psychosis – the same stat also relates to drinking alcohol at a young age.
Invalid argument
If it was legalized it could not be more common than it is now.
It’s amazing to see how easily some people are fooled into believing the bullshit propaganda that’s pumped out by psychiatrists and others who are have such a clear vested interest in keeping cannabis prohibited, the pharmacuetical & alcohol industry being amongst the biggest opponents of legalised cannabis – http://www.ibtimes.com/marijuana-legalization-pharmaceuticals-alcohol-industry-among-biggest-opponents-legal-weed-1651166
It’s been recently discovered that some of the leading anti cannabis academics have been paid off handsomely by various pain killer companies – https://news.vice.com/article/leading-anti-marijuana-academics-are-paid-by-painkiller-drug-companies
It’s time society copped onto the scam that is ‘cannabis prohibtion’, we’re being denied the use of a highly efficient non-toxic plant medicine that can be used to treat a number of debilitating ailments, so that the pharmacuetical companies can profit from the sales of their much more harmful & costly chemical based drugs and from a recreational stand point we’re allowing the alcohol industry hold a monopoly on the legal mind altering drug market, which has proven to be an absolute disaster. We should not only demand legal access to the safer alternative that is cannabis, but we should be actively encouraging its use over alcohol, so that we can create a safer, healthier & more balanced society.
What’s important to remember, legalisation, if done right, should make it more difficult for kids to smoke this stuff and harm their development.
Most drug dealers have no problem selling weed to teenagers, where a legitimate business that faces harsh penalties is far more likely to ask for ID. Even put a system in place where in order to buy cannabis you have to sign up for a card that has your photo and a chip and pin that can log how often and how much you buy, if you’re caught going into the shop for younger people, or buying more than is necessary for one adult regularly, the system can flag you up and your card is permanently revoked along with the court date. Garda will be less busy driving around trying to pick drug dealers out of the masses and will be able to hang around the shop just waiting for people trying to buy for kids/illegitimate dealing. Also having less stigma around the drug should help reduce its “rebellious” appeal, which attracts young people like moths to a flame, and makes it harder for anybody to admit they may need help with drug addiction, when they fear the stigma and being labelled a criminal. The beauty is all this and more will be payed for buy the money from taxes made from the sale of cannabis ( less money for the dealers who target children ).
Here here
Well said cannabis freedom.
It’s fecking relatively harmless and beneficial for many. Let adults have a smoke and be done with the “official”
fear mongering & propaganda scaring poor closed minded citizens like Diarmuid above.
seems like you are the one completely unaware of what your talking about
The more bananas you eat the more likely your chance of potassium overdose. I understand your point but that’s really a study of excess, not safety.
You’re dead right! When I was 15 I was always one phone call away from buying marijuana off some fairly dodgy characters. There’d be no money to be made in drug dealing after legalisation.
Michael there smoking it anyway why criminalise them
An occasional bifter is a wonderful thing.
Different strokes for different folks some people love it some people hate it. But if it’s banned then people want it more. Taking these lower end drugs out of the hands of criminals and into the hands of taxation officials might be a good revenue stream more or less on a par with the worst drug of all alcohol which causes a lot more problems than maryjane does. I agree it can cause psychosis it some people but if regulated then THC can be reduced or more quality strains can be introduced other than the chemical crap that is currently being produced by criminals around the country.
If it’s illegal it is less socially acceptable and certainly promoted openly less. Look at the recent head shop phenomenon.. people unashamedly queuing around street corners to buy drugs which were legal on a technicality.. they wouldn’t do the same now for the same substances.
Is this the same headshops that had no regulation, quality control and no alternative?
The headshops that since we banned have slashed 1000 jobs and sent tonnes of legal highs onto the black market? Ireland has the 2nd highest legal high use in Europe.
I wouldn’t go near the dirt but your assumption is lack at best.
Demand usually falls after a while when it is legalized.
It can’t get more common at this stage.
Hevin, they are no longer legal highs, they are illegal highs!.. Fact is legalised drugs are more socially acceptable and readily available than illegal drugs, resulting in greater consumption.
Diarmuid, teenagers find it easier to procure weed than they do alcohol. And weed has huge consumption and is very socially acceptable now, regardless of legality.
diarmuid would there be any chance of some statistics to prove your ridiculous points?
And diarmuid many of those people now buy unknown ingredient dangerous drugs off criminals who dont ask kids for ID so the problem is actually worse now…but i spose in ignorant right wing ireland; out of site= out of mind eh? like years of church abuse…oh yea you know what else is good? the millions of euro the war on drugs costs this country every year. Heaven forbid that we should save ALL that money + make millions in tax if it means hippies can enjoy a plant in peace while you drink alcohol in the pub. That would be morally wrong. People like you are the problem with this country and you have been for decades. Do us all a favour and emigrate to liberia.
Jees Joe, way to take it too far.. coming down from something? Might need another hit to get over the bout of paranoia.
hahah…oh i see what you did there. scratch everything i said you must be right after all. well done.
Diarmuid – for some reason you remind me of an ape !
Thanks Joe, I’m just glad that we got over our little disagreement.. and that you don’t blame me for decades of child sex abuse.. and that you don’t hope I contact Ebola.. Love you babes x
can you provide statistics to back your statement? Uruguay, portugal and The Netherlands, go do a bit of actual reading about their drug consumption since they legalized. The complete opposite of the unfounded crap your spouting.
Diarmuid, maybe if you used that computer in front of you to do some research before you comment you’ll find two things. Cannabis consumption has actually fallen in Holland and you may not look so stupid next time!
Yeah let’s be like Amsterdam.
Troll much?
Proof even a broken clock is right twice a day. Usually he’s way off but this is nail on the head stuff.
My thoughts exactly Tony!
Ful legalisation of Cannabis is, as otherwise Mr Aaron McKenna (neo-liberal-conservative-wealthy-business-owner) says it is here – a no brainer.
No more harmful than alcohol or tobacco… almost certainly a lot less.
Can be taxed & produce a government revenue which will be spent into the economy, rather than handed over to criminals to hoard in offshore accounts, villas in Spain etc.
Many positive health benefits, if not smoked, but rather ‘vaped’ (like e-cigs) or eaten.
Win-win-win all round. Nothing against it. It does need to be restricted to adults, but that is the same for many things otherwise entirely acceptable to us.
That politicians have not & still refuse to legalise it, just shows us again who they really represent – a tiny minority of conservative ideologues akin to religeous fundamentalists, but wealthy enough to contribute party funds etc.
Again, this is not ‘democracy’… it is some form of plutocracy where a small minority believe they are better than the rest of us, typically by birth, and inherit some God given right to rule over us, with an extraordinary combination of self-service of their ‘class’ interests & massive incompetence.
Mike Hall great comment. very incisive ;)
It would take courage and balls to try legalise it Ireland and unfortunately there is more lead in the water than Edna’s pencil, so I wouldn’t count on him even entertaining the idea!
Last minister I heard talking about cannabis was Alan Shatter who foolishly stated the misconception that usage causes mental health problems as grounds for refusing to legalise.
Of course it should be legal with some restrictions such as age and quantity.
Tobacco 5 million deaths per annum. Cannabis ZERO deaths world wide. That should be the beginning and end to every discussion on this subject.
Name 1 drug that does not have an adverse effect? They all come with warnings, the biggest lists of warnings come with prescription drugs and in fact prescription kill more than all illegal drugs combined. The miss use of benzos (with alcohol) is a prime example here in Ireland where it’s linked with the majority of drug deaths.
But that’s slightly off topic, we also know that if someone starts drinking at a young age they are far more likely to become dependent on it in later life.
I think weed like any other substance on this earth needs to be taken with caution and education on what you are putting in your body. We also need culture change, can’t imagine anyone boasting about smoking 10 joints last night and pissing in the wardrobe when they got home same as they do when they drink and get the shit kicked out of them in the taxi cue. If these laws can work in other countries and states then they can work here, there’s not much point in asking will someone please think of the kids, it’s already available for them in an uncontrolled market so maybe we should be thinking about the kids in the current situation as opposed to proposed next. As for legalisation in the states, what a fu”*in bunch of hypocrites they are over there. Look at the how the yanks have made this herb illegal / legal in the past, this would not be the first time they have decriminalised it, seems like when their economy is in meltdown they feel a need to decriminalise weed.
I pay €400 for an ounce I wonder if it were legalized how much 28 g’s would cost? cannabis illegality has never stopped me smoking it and it never will. in fact as far as I’m concerned, it’s already legal
i pay $210 :D
well said . shame you support a sh*t team :)
I’m not a doctor, just a lawyer who represents clients who are sectioned under the Mental Health Act. I was laissez faire on cannabis but the link between excessive cannabis and schizophrenia is so clear to me now, it cannot be ignored
http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/12/10/harvard-marijuana-doesnt-cause-schizophrenia/63148.html. I’m sorry Terence but you’re wrong.
You may be right Terence but your argument here is undermined in your first sentence when you admit you benefit financially from clients (not patients, your not a doctor) with mental health issues resulting from excessive marijuana use
Exactly, and aside from the fact that you benefit financially from these people and that it is in your interest to have the current state of affairs continue, you conveniently ignored that cases of schizophrenia in cannabis users is a tiny minority; you may as well say that because there’s a link between alcohol misuse and domestic violence you support the criminalisation of the alcohol industry and users of alcohol despite the fact that the majority of users do so responsibly and the amount of jobs that exist as a result of the existence of the alcohol industry. Let’s face it, people with schizophrenia shouldn’t be using anything aside from the medication prescribed to them for their condition.
You have first hand experience with victims of drug abuse Terence but I’m sure you will find that most of your clients have other addictions (actually in my experience there is a large proportion that get addicted to EVERYTHING they try like gambling, alcohol, weed, benzos, coke, speed, sex) weed like paracetamol or aspirin or any other substance, is not suitable for everyone.
And the schizophrenia theory has long since being debunked, thc actually protects the brain. just one more little thing about thc, humans have a cannabinoid receptors in their bodies , why would that be? Did we evolve using weed? Dieticians are now saying that we should eat raw cannabis as part of our diet, and don’t worry you only get stoned when thc is heated at high temperatures.
Maybe Terence they were unstable before taking cannabis , does research take that into consideration?.
Terence is there any evidence or study that shows how we section politicians who bring out budgets with rules on how we all pay tax and yet at the same time they don’t pay it themselves – that’s schizophrenia right there !
Are our politicians smoking too much cannabis or are they on the white stuff – drug tests for politicians immediately – compulsory and independent – I fear they may be schizophrenic.
I choose not to take any substances that could hurt my well-being in the long run . I’m close to the edge as it is . Up to an individual if they want to take it .
Keep the cool Thomas – remember the edge is where most off us are – not to fall over it is the trick ….
Thank’s,Dermot :)
Swallowing certain stuff would do your head in
Look how many have been sectioned ‘cos of religion
People have been abusing their bodies at the local pub
Wasn’t that the normal thing to do after a decent feed of grub
Cannabis is the lesser evil to a mind than the one who commits sin
No doubt about it Terence I’d say but what about Alcohol.
Prohibition has failed.
When they are allowed the thrill disappears and people think nothing of it. Use drops in countries that have legalized.
I can guarantee that using the same methodology you can find a link between mental illness and fish fingers.Most people who present with mental illness will have consumed fish fingers at some stage in their lives.Captain Birds Eye has a lot to answer for.He’s been pushing them on kids for years.
Terence I think you’ll find that you misunderstood the study which doesn’t say much about your skills as a solicitor. The implication is that if you ALREADY have underlying schizophrenia, marijuana can bring it to the surface. As can alcohol and in some cases even caffeine. You really need to be careful about using misunderstood information, its your job?
@ Paddy Hannigan, think about it fish dont even have fingers, so right off the bat they’re messing with our heads, 5 year old me spent a lot of time on this one and the conclusion was this has to be the work of a evil genius who’s name is Captain Birds eye..that shit messed me up for years..so to summerise Paddy you are absolutely right.
I was in denver in the year where it is legal. People were openly smoking it in the streets and it made the place look unappealing. Add to that people just everywhere smoking it I did not feel a bit safe on my own. I think it ruins places.
Do you feel safer in O’connell or Grafton Street after dark.?
I never heard of a Cannabis inspired mugger or petty thief before the courts yet.?
So you feel safer walking around Dublin at night when everyone is drunk?
No I avoid dublin any time of day
you must a teetotaler, fair play to you if you are, but live and let live eh?
And dublin is thankful that you do!
OMG people smoking, you must have been out of your mind from fear with all those chilled out stoners everywhere….
Wow you were lucky to survive that, one of those dopes could have had a schizophrenic attack and tried to do something to you. Next thing you will be telling us is that the police just stood by and watched?
Take it easy on Allison folks – o.k. ?
Even Donovan sang about them, I believe it went something like “the violent hash smoker shook the chocolate machine”
I do agree with Alison to a certain extent, the smell of cigarette smoke at bus stops etc drives me mad, the smell of weed is 10 times worse i my opinion. A free for all should not be allowed.
I’m just saying I thought the atmosphere was very menacing, not what I expected at all.
Even if it was legalised here I don’t think it would be managed properly and there would still be a criminal aspect to it
The same way we all buy bootlegged hooch and have Rex Banner kicking all our doors down?
Do you think “peope everywhere” were not smoking it just because it was illegal? Do you think the people smoking it came from somewhere else, or do you think those “menacing” people were living in Denver before you arrived?
Can you describe a place that isn’t “ruined”, where you “feel safe on your own”?
Allison – you imagined it to be menacing – it was only truly menacing if you were attacked etc.
Smokers don’t really do violence – if you mix it up with alcohol and some other less calming drugs then it’s a different story – but that wouldn’t be the cannabis that brings out the violence – that’s usually whiskey, heroin addiction , cocaine rampage or some such abbhoration !
don’t take it easy on Allison – troll for the Enda gang of tax-dodgers – if they exist that is …l.o.l.
FYI just because I have a different opinion does not make me a troll
it doesn’t mean you are not one either – I have seen your posts elsewhere and am also entitled to mu opinion which could of course be wrong…
what do you think of senior p[oliticians from across all parties being implicated in a big tax cover-up and how do think this may have weakened our politicians negotiating stance if the Troika knew where politicins may otr may not have had offshore accounts ?
Answer me that and I’ll know whether you are a troll or not -
I am not impressed with your E.U. like picture either – I firmly dislike Europhiles – pen-pushing ninnys with a totally fabricated over grown sense of their own value in my opinion !
That Mairead McGuinness wan for example would be someone I would have in mind with the Europhile comment – but not necessarily Mairead per se – I haven’t met her – but she gives off that vibe don’t you think ?
I agree with Allison.
Well, not the bit about Dublin. Dublin’s grand.
You didn’t feel safe around pot smokers? Haha someone doesn’t understand the effects of the plant. After a smoke the last thing I’ll be doing is attacking someone. It is a very peaceful drug.
It’s the middle class that are supporting the drug gangs that ruin areas of our cities if we can get those same people to legally buy drugs and tax the shite we’d be killing two birds with the one stone. As long a proper drug driving equipment was invested and that it was only available in licenced shops and not smoked in the vicinity of schools I’d be all in on this
Let’s not try and lead Europe on this one let the Scandinavian country’s put it through it’s process and see what they come up with
In Sweden the off-licence is run by the government systembolaget.se they make a fortune on it and in an expensive country alcohol is relatively cheap
If they would do that with weed well that’s a double win and easy way to control it and it’s contents too no poisonous weed no rouge traders and all benefits going to the people
“It’s about as bad as alcohol”. What a great argument for legalisation…
If you’re going to use quotations then actually use a quote
It’s far less harmless than alcohol.
It helps millions of people in their daily lives..
How about that for an argument for legalisation.
“It’s far less harmless than alcohol.”
After a couple of drinks that’s almost impossible to parse. And I have a PhD in English.
Oops. Less harmful than ilcohol. Ya knew what I meant. Good spot though
People have a choice if they want marijuana they should have it, the people who drink whiskey and other spirits are the people who say this is a disgrace…… they will buy it illegally and finance drug dealers and crime, much better to have these people buy it legally and pay tax on this. the extra tax may help to pay for the water tax and extra wages for Enda and his followers.
Only way to speed this up is to vote for candidates that expressly support legalisation. Young people get out and vote and don’t have you liberties dictated to you by scared older generations set in their ways.
When a parent finds their child (teenager)intoxicated and asks what they’ve taken, what do you think the child says? They say weed, they’ll never admit what they’ve really taken.
On the most basic level the financial benefit to local community is astonishing, if someone spends €50-100 per week on cannabis where does their money go? Customer –> Local Dealer –> ???, the cash either leaves our country or gets put to use for some other criminal activities.
Now if that person could grow their own, or buy from a legalised vendor the cash they spend continues to circulate in their community. They are going to smoke/eat/vapo it anyway, chances are the food industry where they live will see a massive upturn in profit too if they were only spending €10-20 per week instead?
I pay €400 for an ounce of high grade cannabis I wonder if it were to be made legal how much it’d cost me? weeds illegality here has never stopped me smoking it and never will. in fact as far as i’m concerned it’s already legal . I use it for physical,mental,emotional,spiritual and medicinal reasons
280 squids about – although it would probably drop to about 5 or 6 euro in an open economy – and that would drop it to about 150 quid –
in it’s current legal framework the difference goes to criminals and all those who support their illegal activities .
What does Nidge and a sitting Minister have in common ?
They don’t pay their taxes !
As it’s states in the Headline “No Brainer” anyone who has the Internet at there disposal and is a functioning adult who still disagrees is an absaloutle uneducated moron… You can make food. Clothes. Medicine. Textiles. Fuel. Plastics, use it for recreation….. Even bricks and lime renders can be produced … I love the poetic irony that it was the Americans who started this “war on drugs” and now the American citizens are leading the way in freedom for this tyranny
Marijuana/Canabis dulls ambition and promotes laziness. You don’t need a medical degree to spot a regular user a mile off.. The alcohol/cigarettes argument is bogus.. that horse has bolted… just because some bad stuff is legal doesn’t mean all bad stuff should be legal… We also don’t need to become a second Amsterdam, attracting every drugged up looney on the continent.
Yawn.
Yea Richerd Branson has no ambition because he smokes a few blunts would you stop
In the professional classes, most regular weed smokers that I know are Doctors and Lawyers.
No one gets stoned like trainee Doctors in University
Awesome contribution Paul! Clearly tired from that spliff you’re having.. get some sleep
Diarmuid..
have tonnes of drive and ambition and no one ever suspects I use cannabis.
Due to its illegality many people I know like me keep it on the down low.
So who you are “spotting a mile off” are those who your closed minded condition associates with drug use rather than true typical cannabis user.
John, if I was a complete stoner, the anecdotal evidence of your alleged drive and ambition might just about pass for proof that cannabis doesn’t dull ambition. However, since I’m merely a functioning alcoholic, I can still clearly see the blatantly obvious fact that cannabis turns loads of potentially productive people into complete and utter wasters. Just because you (according to you) are not being held back by your cannabis use, that doesn’t mean other people aren’t. When someone points out the obvious fact that alcohol causes a lot of harm in society, you don’t see me getting up on my hind legs and bleating that alcohol is harmless because I make it into work every morning.
You wouldn’t spot me either Diarmuid I’m afraid. Hard working masters student with good grades who pays her taxes and would otherwise never even consider breaking the law. We’re an illusive bunch!
You clearly do not know what you are talking about. How can you possibly make a statement like that with absolutely no evidence to back it up?? I have just turned 28 years old I smoke every single day move than most and this year I completed my batchelors in computer science where I got a result of 99.5% while smoke every day and night I was in college. So please tell me how you have come to your conclusion? I think you are uneducated on this matter and its people like you and comments like that, that are holding back the inevitable legalization of this plant.
Zozy,
I am not denying that while under the influence of cannabis some users are totally unproductive. This does not mean that it causes a lasting lack of drive once the effects wear off. The widely held misconception that smoking this plant somehow makes people lazy as espoused by Diarmuid above, only serve to justify the status quo i.e. Keeping it illegal out of fear that everyone become stoned wasters.
Yes some people use it all the time and those people are sometimes of no benefit to society similarly for chronic alcoholics.
So we agree that chronic use of any substance is generally not such a good thing: Perhaps the fact that you don’t mind folks incorrectly insinuating that anyone who drinks is a useless waster, is related to the fact that your choice to drink does not break an outdated and unjust law which would label you as a criminal for your choice of escapism.
Just like Paul above I have a first class honours degree, however unlike Paul I laid off the weed for the months preceding exam time. Similarly I don’t indulge in cannabis during the daytime as it would make work impossible.
Paul, you are sending out a dangerous message. It is not a good thing for most people to smoke every day particularly when they have important life goals to accomplish such as exams. It doesn’t affect you negatively which is great but it is not healthy to be stoned all the time any more than it is to be drunk all the time. Use don’t abuse.
It’s only a matter of time, it’s a quiet revolution across the West , ie a culture change that is huge but no one realises it’s happening because there’s not enough arguments against it to oppose it. I expect this to happen in Ireland sooner than I previously thought.
Forget the water charges, tax the dope – everybody’s happy!
Legalize it. Half the young male population is living at home with their parents anyway, so what’s the harm?
Thank you for pot smoking!!
you’re welcome Trevor =p
not the devils plant surely?, cant have kids going around puking up their pelvic bones and crying all the water out of their bodies…
USA also allows kids to own semi automatics what to people think the former pot dealers are going to do retire maybe turn to dealing hard drugs Look at the heroine epidemic sweeping USA I a lot of cousins in LA pot is just rampant among young people try to reduce cigarette smoking and legalising weed make no sense at all
What has licenced firearms got to do with this debate ? Our gun laws are completely different and are therefore not an issue in this !
The point was just because USA is doing it doesn’t mean it’s right
Look at Holland where Heroin is given out for free to addicts, they are fed and housed, on condition you have treatment.
The average age of their addicts is in the late 40′s.
They no longer have a heroin epidemic.
They wanted to solve it, reduce the damage, reduce the cost to society.
They didn’t care about the moralizing or hand ringing types.
yes but equally just because they are doing something doesn’t make it wrong either – to link gun law and cannabis law is not really valid in Ireland – our criminals hold illegal firearms in most cases !
“no more harmful than tobacco and alcohol”
High praise indeed.
FAR less harmful than tobacco or alcohol.
A stand against legalisation is a stand in favour of drug dealers amd that’s the truth. Drug dealers don’t ask for ID, nor os there any quality control. We could sell both recreational and medicinal marijuana and watch how far that deficit drops. Even if you never have/never will smoke/consume marijuana, it is VITAL that you do unbiased research before condemning it. I have seen remarkable progress with my psoriasis since using cannabis based cures (cannabidiol aka CBD). Make a responsible and informed decision.
IN
What chance had you in life?
No woman should smoke crack when she is pregnant.
You had a raw deal.
Check out this study. http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7374/1195.1?variant=full-text&rss=1&ssource=mfr
That study was solely carried out on young women. 7% of over 1600 in the cohort. Given women are already twice as likely to suffer with depression as it is what does this prove? After puberty more women in general suffer with depression than men. There’s hormonal causes from pms to pregnancy to post-natal depression to menopause which instantly is going to result in a higher instance of reporting depression. So studying only girls of this age group is clearly going to come up with a correlation.
The key point is 7% of girls in the study at such a young age are are using cannabis daily. So there’s a real possibility that their increased cannabis use is due to the fact that they already are feeling depressed and have anxiety.
Hey anti cannabis people look at this video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eDy5zdAt9o&feature=youtu.be
I think your stupid Dwayne.
If anyone is still on the fence about legalization, medical benefits and social injustice then look no further than these two documentaries:
The Union: The business behind getting high.
The Culture high.
Probably the best made, most cogent arguments why the current illegality is an absolute farce. Inform yourselves, then come back to debate once you have the actual facts. Not simply regurgitating the well intrenched propaganda we all know (and hate).
I would advise anyone interested in this issue to watch the documentary ‘The Culture High.’ It’s very informative and heartbreaking in parts.
Legalise it and tax it to the absolute hilt!
It really should be legalised. It can help with so many cancer patients. Taking the oil from hash can cure many cancers.
I heard there’s a New Political Party coming into Ireland……… , the ICA ,and no they’re not here all ready that’s the Irish Country (women’s) Association or should be the ICWA brigade , as well these ladies do make fine cakes and buns too ..the International Cannabis Association is the umbrella group for all hemp/cannabis farmers making ropes and rigging ,cloth and clothes, oils,Flours,Juices and teas and butter makers oh and then there are those grannies who’s bones ache less so they smile ,but ‘we’ all know our phone owners and newspaper men will just get pictures of the young men and women the artists ,nurses,teachers and shop workers who just don’t like the alcohol and prefer to go Green .. Reckon these guys should get a few voters here now , when they announce water will be free so
Fully legalise the stuff and tax it and then use the money to fix the roads in this country their shocking
we supply the best quality medical marijuana strains discrete and
worldwide : Our strains are best grade AAA ++ We offer discrete
shipping . Here is a list of strains and more : Lavender oil, hemp
oil, Hawaiian Snow, Blue Dream, Chrystal, Hash, Hash oil Lavender,
Grape Ape, Headband, Purple Kush, Snow White Feminized, Diesel, Jack
the Ripper, Silver Haze, B52, White Widow, Super Lemon Haze, Blue
Cheese, Lavender, OG Kush, Big Bud, New York Diesel Feminized, Grape
Ape, Headband, Sour Diesel, C-99, Chocolate Chunk, Whiteberry, Outdoor
Blueberry, Northern Lights, California Outdoor LA Confidential,
Cheese, Afghan, Haze, Bubba Kush, LSD, Medusa Feminized, Super Skunk,
Trainwreck, Vanilla Kush, Juicy Fruit, Autoflower J. Horror Fem,
Strawberry Cough, Canyon, Sour Kush, Chiesel, Bubba Kush, Super Silver
Haze, Apollo 13, Jack Herer,cannabis Feminized seeds of all strains and more.
All inquiries are welcomed at (andymorel90@gmail.com) or text (650)246-9364 thanks….
Referendum
I have seen first hand the overuse can have on young people drug induced psychosis is increasing and there has been many admissions to psychiatric hospital. If it’s done properly if people are educated well on the dangers of overuse
There is a benefit to legalisation, but if anyone thinks it was have much of an impact on the drug wars they are sorely mistaken. Legalising one drug doesn’t stop them fighting over others.
The main benefit would be the tax received because initially it would be massive, then people would get use to the idea of being able to smoke legally and it would find a steady level. Tayto would probably also see a boost to its bottom line with sales of chicatees go through the roof.
However with legalisation there has to be laws drafted to combat the negatives, just because it’s legal to use it doesn’t mean it should be accepted that you can drive while under its influence, or go a “smoke” break at work.
Personally it doesn’t really bother me either way but the two lobbying sides look at extremes, ignore the middle ground and have no understanding of each others argument so it could be a while.
easiest drug to buy in Ireland .. mabee it is time for ireland to rethink its approach to drugs
have your say