Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
PRE-NUPTIAL AGREEMENTS could help young farmers take control of the family land at an earlier age, RTÉ agricultural show Ear to the Ground will hear tonight.
The show’s presenter Darragh McCullough discovered that there is a growing fear among older people across Ireland that their farms could be split if their sons and daughters’ marriages break down.
The concerns about having to split up farms have increased since divorce was introduced to the country, which has led to many farmers not to pass down the land as would have happened previously.
It is a widespread problem, much discussed, that land in Ireland is not being passed on to younger generations as readily as it was in the past, leaving young farmers in limbo.
Many families now have to wait until parents die to inherit the farm, meaning lands are being managed my much older men and women.
“It’s the same as any other business,” explains farmer William Holohan. “If you owned a company, it’s half the income coming in to what they are used to.”
He believes pre-nuptial agreements could be the answer for farming families facing the dilemma.
“If pre-nups are there, it would increase the transfer of land to younger farmers, to the younger generation who want to get working. But there is the fear that would be in the back of parents’s mind.
The world is evolving and this is an evolving step. It is just a safeguard situation for all people out there. We have to move with the times. We can’t stay in the Stone Age.
The Kilkenny man is about to wed his fiancée Mairéad Whitty and the pair have arranged for a pre-nuptial agreement.
“It is associated with what you see in the films…but it is very serious for our generation…because the fact is that there is marital breakdown and separations,” she tells McCullough.
“Years ago, the woman was nearly offered with a dowry. And she was taken with that dowry. But a woman coming into a marriage now, she’s probably maybe in her late-20s, early-30s. She is educated, a career, and has an asset or two of her own. She wants to protect those as much as a farmer’s son wants to protect his farms.
“If there was something there that was legally enforced, it might aid accession where the younger farmer might be able to take over the farm earlier instead of waiting until he is a mature man where, perhaps, a bereavement occurs in the family.”
Currently, judges have discretion on whether to recognise pre-nuptial agreements in Ireland. They are not banned but they are not automatically recognised either.
Earlier this year, the Justice Minister said his department will consider the legal position of the arrangements as part of legal reforms.
Ear to the Ground will be shown on RTÉ One tonight at 8.30pm.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
We want pre-nup!
“caus when she leave ya ass she gona leave with half”
More than half – and the kids too.
Caus when she leaves your grass she’s gonna leave with half
You’ll walk up the isle with 150 acres and walk down the isle with 75.
Caus when she leaves with your grass she’s gonna leave with half the calves
Is the family farm any different than a family run pub or shop.
Have you not seen “the field” – plenty of those types of farmer still about I can assure you.
No it’s not it’s just that all farmers are whingers
I take it stabber that your an ignorant townie and wouldn’t know a cow if it kicked you. This has a lot more to do with protecting a business and a way of life in rural Ireland
Slow Harry…
Exactly.
This topic has been churned over again and.
Irish legislators are an insult to anyone who has or is about to deal with the law in this respect.
Hey slow Harry, where’d you get the white rabbit?
Land is a prize posession, ive seen two farmers lashing the b-jaysus outa each other with quarter inch waven pipes over access to land, never mind the land itself!
@Declan I got the white rabbit in Brisbane haven’t managed to find any in Ireland yet.
A quicker divorce system and total equality when deciding who gets what would go along way.
Especially where kids are concerned.
Very good point. 4 years to get a divorse is ridiculous. It should be 1 or 2 at the most.
A standard basic payment for any child similar to Child Benefit that the State figure is the correct monthly amount to raise a child, after that the adults can stand on their own 2 feet.
The time delay is purposeful as it helps alienate the kids from their fathers, nicely leaving powerless fathers as default deadbeat Dads.
The Family home only should be liquidated and split with immediate compulsion to make every effort to sell as quickly as possible(placed on the market within 30 days). The farm is a business so that should entitle child maintenance to be derived from that income source, no need to split it, just continue on as in any job.
Shouldn’t take more than a couple of weeks to process. Any non working parent will have to go out to work now that they are standing on their own feet outside of marriage. Thems the breaks that come with the equality narrative.
Ah PFA the “deadbeat dads” reference.
Totally agree with your post, but hey it’s xmas.
You know, now that I think of it, when Joseph – the unmarried non biological father – turned up looking for a place to stay, and she was shot down, who looked after her? Betcha it wasn’t the department of sociall welfare.
Seems God himself, was the deadbeat dad.
Absolutely. Also, any property or wealth that had been accumulated before marriage should not be counted during the division of common stuff. And you know? Those are not radical steps but common divorce procedures in the major part of the world. Here, it is a nightmare.
Honestly Marie – I don’t get you at all. I’m trying hard lately, but I just can’t see the middle ground between us. I find your posts flighty. Not above comprehension, but I don’t see the logic to put it kindly.
Your inability to “see” things does not bother me much. Thanks.
Let’s not become enemies. My post was honest, not an attack. It’s not a question of jumping in the ring and fighting to the death. It’s simply a question of recognising we move to a different beat. Thats all. No disrespect meant.
Luke, your references to Joseph and Mary looks pretty flighty to me
I think this is a must and the sooner it comes in the better.
Francis Gorman…
I see you got many thumbs down.
I would like to hear from these readers and ask them what their objection is to a prenup.
Think they are afraid that if they get the chance to marry and divorce a farmer they will not get half his land :)
Why dies the farmer have to be a guy? Aren’t there women farmers?
He doesn’t have to be a guy it covers the owner of the land
If ya dont have a farm you’re not a young farmer,….you’re unemployed.
The law of communal property needs to be changed ,That’s cause young farmers are living with their parents and the mammy doesn’t really trust yer one.
What’s yours is mine and what’s mine is my own. More money for men and women in the legal fraternity. If I bring a farm into a marriage any self respecting spouse should accept that they had no input into it before marriage and move on. The thought of losing half my farm put me off the idea completely. I’m staying single pre nup or no pre nup. Sorry ladies.
Michael Garret…
Couldn’t agree with you more.
But Irish legislators have copped on to the wise ones who decided not to tie the knot.
Whether you decide to get married or just live together with your partner does not make a huge difference in the eye of the law.
So the bottom line is: Prenups should make it legally possible to secure your asetts.
These asetts will secure either side and will eliminate any “Gold-Digger” ventures.
This piece of legislation is particularly straight forward when there are no children involved.
That must be why there are so many bitter old men living in isolation all around the country. A long and miserable life but shur, so long as the farm’s in tact…..!
Well, they must be in a better position than old bitter men living in isolation and paying enormous amounts of money to their beloved exes after giving half the house and property away.
Having a pre-nuptial agreement implies that one spouse doesn’t trust the other. If there’s no trust then there’s no point in getting married.
With regard to the risk of the farm being split in the event of marital breakdown, do judges not recognise the right of the spouse who owns the farm to earn a living?
Ciaran Masterson…
Ignorance is indeed bliss.
Do judges consider what?
Judges, solicitors and barristers are in many cases ultimately to blame for an adverse outcome in family law matters.
@Antonov Merinov
“Judges, solicitors and barristers are in many cases ultimately to blame for an adverse outcome in family law matters.”
You may have forgotten this but judges swear an oath that they will act with no fear, no favour and no ill will. As for the lawyers, they simply do what their clients instruct them to do.
Ciaran Masterson…
Your post smacks of utter inexperience with Irish Family Law.
In a period of 4 years in the High Court I was confronted with 5 different judges.
None of them familiar with my case.
Many of them straight from criminal proceedings to family law.
My legal team ( solicitor, junior & senior counsel ) were to say the least inexperienced.
Without going into further detail I can only advise in the strongest terms…Don’t engage in a legal process involving family law in Ireland.
Evenmore so if you are a father❗️❗️
This topic has come up on the journal before and sparked a healthy and heated debate. The issue I have with a pre-nup is that if I feel I need one (or my prospective husband did) it indicates a lack of trust from day one. If I didn’t trust them I wouldn’t be in a relationship with them never mind marry them and that’s because of this….http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/redress_scheme_for_cohabiting_couples.html
Life ain’t so simple Jenster. The Journal version from contributors and elsewhere – is not the same as real life as you know.
You can trust someone and be in a relationship, yet they abuse that trust after the fact.
Trust is not a constant. It doesn’t come with a lifelong guarantee. It’s not a product, and you don’t get a receipt. People change. Life is not like that. At all.
Absolutely Luke I hear you. And a prenup might address some of it, but I wouldn’t wanna be putting all my eggs in that basket either. I made a comment further below about Irish family law and what a farce it is re unmarried fathers, adoption, divorce, pre-nups etc. I don’t think any of us can rely on it. And it gets dragged out for years. I’d worry that pre-nups would just end up causing more legal money making instead of addressing the original reason people signed one…
And the cohabiting redress piece would in some cases pre-date a pre-nup… I’d be concerned about that if I was relying on a pre-nup. People might not be as protected as they think….
Yeah – spotted your post below after the fact Jenster. A very honest post it is too.
Luke, are you and Jenster a married couple?
You walk up the aisle with a farm and back down with half of it :-D
Family law is a farce in this country. Unmarried fathers have no rights to their children. Only married or single people can adopt (cohabitants cannot nor can civil partners), we have a cohabiting redress scheme yet we don’t recognise pre-nups. Bottom line is I wouldn’t rely on any family laws to protect me in this country. Gut instinct all the way. I met my husband almost 16 years ago. We only started dating 7yrs ago, cohabiting 4 years ago and married last year. It took a long time for me to get to know him well enough to know I could trust him, live with him and marry him. Thats because the law won’t protect you. And pre-nups will be challenged – great to have the choice yes, but I wouldn’t want to have to rely on one and ultimately the only ones who win are the lawyers who make money on it all.
There’s so much right and wrong with that old friend – I don’t know where to start or finish :)
But, I do know from your posts, there ain’t nothing bout you I don’t like Jenster :)
Cheers Luke! And I don’t wish to appear anti pre-nup because I’m not. Believe me, I’m a stickler for covering myself as much as I can legally (wills etc) but our laws just don’t protect us enough and even when in place, get dragged out for years. No one wins and it costs everyone. That’s why it took me so long to finally ‘settle down’. I had to be sure. A pre-nup may provide some comfort to people (and legality too of course) but given the state of family law in Ireland, it could just become another expensive farce. My advice? Make wise decisions about who you trust..
Well written Jenster.
I am intrigued though by your motivation to post in relation to this topic and others. In a positive sense I might add.
Sure what would a “poor” farmer have to lose??
Anybody know where I can get all of the ear to ground episodes downloaded? Need to actual video file.
I am desperately hurt-all my family are married my eldest brother has two kids-my two sisters one has two and the other has three and my twin brother cant have any because they left it late-yes I love to get married and have kids having a nice boy or girl-rome was’nt built in a day-ladies if you think you meet aman on face book you only meet siote-you be dead meat as i mean this in a nice way you are niave anmd guable
WTF??
It’s because you have ridiculously enormous moobs
Ah for F**CK sake Morm, it’s Christmas, cheer up!!
With tits like that, who needs cows?
I can’t think of a single reason why nobody wants to breed with you
NOBODY CARES ABOUT ME-THEY JUST GET A PLEASURE KICKING ME AROUND LIKE A FOOTBALL-ITS FUNNY LOVE IS FUNNY-ITS LIKE A HOT BATH THEN IT GOES COLD THEN LIKE AN ICE CUBE-AND FRIENDSHIP GOES ITS UNREAL-NOW I HAVE TO PICK UP THE NASTY PIECES AGAIN-
Nasty pieces of the ice cube?
Just pulling you leg man
For every negative there is a possible, for every failure there is success and for every broken heart there is someone out there to help you mend it, you just have to have faith and believe that even though the clouds are out, the sun will shine on your life again.
Happy Christmas
WHATS WITH THE CAPS LOCK?????
Hear, hear.
That chap is at it again shouting . I must get me ear muffs on .
Why would a sane woman marry a farmer? Is it for the fresh smell of cowshite every day?
No land=no wedding.
Sure they used to marry in the family to keep land…
They could potentially help everyone in the country.
No way should a man or woman exit a brief marriage with much more than they brought in to it . If together years and build wealth that’s different . Nobody should be left homeless.
It’s my field says the Bull McCabe
have your say