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Updated 8.40pm
FINANCE MINISTER MICHAEL Noonan has said that “on the face of it”, the CRC top-up money should be paid back.
Speaking to George Lee on The Business on RTÉ Radio 1 this morning, he described the recent revelations about the Central Remedial Clinic and its payments to some staff as “an astounding set of circumstances and absolutely shocking”.
He said he thinks that the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) approach “is the correct one and I suppose what the chairman John McGuinness said: that they should be allowed to process all the information and come up with a conclusion after examining the relevant witnesses.”
He also said he hopes that the former chairman – Hamilton Goulding – appears before the PAC “where he can tell his side of the story”.
Added Noonan of garda involvement:
I don’t think it would be appropriate that the PAC inquiry would be inhibited in any way by an early intervention of the guards, but when the PAC has completed its work and arrived at conclusions then the other relevant agencies could get involved.
When asked by Lee “should the money be returned”, Noonan replied: “On the face of it it should, yes.”
Unmitigated mess
Meanwhile, Deputy Mary Lou McDonald of Sinn Féin said on RTÉ radio, while speaking to Claire Byrne today, that there “has been an enormous sense of not just shock but also a numb feeling” and that it had been an “unmitigated mess and scandal”.
She said that she hoped when the CRC representatives come before the PAC again, “they come to give the full facts” and “not to dodge questions”.
She said that the efforts they have made “to play a game of cat and mouse with us” have failed.
McDonald said they have confidence that John Creegan, the HSE’s interim administrator, will come before the CRC “with all of the facts”.
She said that the CRC have “acted with utter contempt for their staff and service users” and “contempt towards an Oireachtas committee”.
The chair of the PAC, John McGuinness, said that Creegan is due to come before the committee and brief the members on all of the paperwork that he has and what he has found.
On the same day, he expects the CRC board, remuneration committee, Brian Conlon and Paul Kiely, to appear before the PAC. McGuinness hopes that this can be done in a matter of weeks.
He also stated that he thinks the comments Hamilton Goulding made today should have been kept for the PAC, and that anyone who has information like that “should bring it forward” and give it to the relevant people.
First posted 12pm
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It will never happen. Mick Wallace will never pay back the VAT he owes. We’re still waiting on “Fingers” to pay back the million he owes. If your an ordinary Joe they’ll feck you in jail over non payment of the TV licence or even if you owe eflow money they’ll send the sheriff round and sell your prized possessions from under you. The whole country is a complete and utter joke!
Remember that news in todays era travels around the globe in a mere flash.
If I was a potential investor and came across Ireland being involved in one scandal after another I would be very reluctant to engage on an economic basis.
The Liebherr issue is a very good example.
If this company pulls out of Ireland it will leave behind a stigma of utter incompetence.
Antonov
If Libherr cranes moves out of Killarney as you suggest together with its 600 jobs it will have nothing to do with incompetence but alternatively will confirm the genetic stupidity and intellectual deficits in the Executive of SIPTU. This is where the incompetency lies on this issue. Just when they could show some leadership they cause this!
Antonov I agree There Is just To many Scandals Fingers Must have a Tidy Sum In Interest by now. Now the elite have stooped To Pinching Money Meant For Charity relief you are dead right when you say this news goes Worldwide In Seconds My brother In London Was on the phone 15 minutes after CRC story broke To ask we’re We that Badly Off We had to Rob Poor Boxes, these criminals Seem to Have Skin Like Rhinos and necks Akin to a Jockeys Equinnine Parts,-:)
Think Richie Antonov was saying the same thing it’s not If Anymore they are Leaving Ireland As sure as there’s Shit In a goose the same union seems to have f*+^%”d Up air motive That same union Partied Worldwide When the Tiger was Roaring Loudest Here And bypassing the old and poor Who met The Celtic Tiger Until He became a Wolfe An started to collect house Water Tax Off people that same Union remains Silent as does the Bishop Of Dublin,-:)
Never met the tiger ,
The Japanese and others pulled out in 1995 due to high level racism and anti Buddhist remarks. not once was it in the media.
AND SO should the money payments of those of corrupt politicians
To be fair Mick Wallace acted in a better way than many who went to the wall by giving first preference to his small business creditors and suppliers saying that the revenue could have what was left after that….at least that money didn’t end up in the hands of a system that would use it to top up public sector pensions
The biggest scandal of all is the ministerial pension. Any pension advisor will tell you that if you’re a government minister for 10 years your pension pot is worth the equivalent of €6,000,000
To accumulate this pot in the private sector would require a contribution of in excess of €30,000 per MONTH!!
OMG
Exactly! Puts the CRC scandal in the tea party category. The Kildare street parasites will put a big divide between themselves and this scandal.
Noonan fails to mention that all of Enda’s advisors in Government and in his constituency office are paid salaries that exceed the Govt. guidelines just like the FF slush fund otherwise known as the CRC. So will he be seeking the return of this money also?
PS – Don’t forget another FG slush fund otherwise known as Limerick City of Culture.
Don’t worry when a brand new party get to power in the next general election all politicians and certain senior civil servants pensions will be stopped or taxed at very high rate
@Danny, this is the very least required.
Wasn’t that party supposed to be Fine Gael?
I agree with all of you people! Repay the money and sack the board. It is the only way to show the public that there is law against embezzlement
‘On the face of it’ he says – talk about stating the bleedin obvious
The board has already resigned: http://www.thejournal.ie/crc-board-resign-1221397-Dec2013/
Oops! I did not realise they had resigned! But perhaps they should have been sacked, as that would have been more appropriate
The “outstanding circumstances” are called cronyism or nepotism and they are in place for a long long time….
I think the involvement of the Gardai should be a matter for the Gardai to decide on. The minister should not even express an opinion on when or whether they should get involved. I, on the other hand am quite free to express an opinion and I think they should be in there already.
Maybe Noonan thinks he is beyond the law
Noonan I agree completely….now extend that logic to the banksters and bondholders bailed out by your govts largesse with the public purse!
Hurry now please get our money back.
FFS Noonan What do ya mean ‘on the face of it’ ya smirking git! Never a straight answer, always on the fence..
Noonan couldn’t lie straight in bed, did you ever hear one of these muppets give a straight answer? Typical goings on in a totally corrupt country!
Noonan, you’re a hypocrite along with rest of your FG and new right-wing Labour colleagues. CRC situation is obscene but replicated all across elite sectors of Irish society protected by the Irish government for generations (and still very much continuing)
Nobody should be allowed to resign in the first place in these circumstances, they should be sacked.
The Gardai should now take over.
If this debacle doesn’t turn out to be illegal through some sort of embezzlement or fraud then the law is not sufficient and should be updated.
Putting in a regulator is not enough on its own. A clear message needs to be sent to all who are in similar positions and to give the public confidence as this has damaged the whole charity sector & millions in donations for services for people who will now suffer will have been lost for good.
PAC committee did a great job, but all further questioning needs to be done in a Garda station.
I think that the PAC first needs to complete its job at questioning everyone involved so that we the public can see exactly what has been going on with the charity monies collected. If the Gardaí are called in now we will never find out the truth and it will probably result in a costing the taxpayer a fortune in litigation. It seems obvious to me that while the staff at the CRC do brilliant work it should not have to rely on charity and should be an HSE management function instead of a board of directors.
Well you can forget the money being returned once Noonan is involved. Bit like this mythical seismic shift his boss was on about will never happen….
Noonan’s not involved. He’s expressed an opinion which most people concur with. Even you. But bash away for no solid reason other than your tribal politics…
Noonan was involved in the decision to allow AIB take 1.1 billion of taxpayer money to fund an early retirement program at the bust lender.
CRC also receive money from the state of which he is minister for finance. Not only is he involved, he should insist.
You too gerbreen. Try to muddy the water with nonsense tenuous links. Do you not agree with his sentiment?
Don’t have any tribal politics O’Reilly unless you consider being a life long FG voter tribal?
I fully agree with his sentiment.
I disagree with your he is not involved sentiment. The AIB link is to show his weakness in dealing with ridiculous pension situations. CRC comment is to show he is involved. He is not likely to do anything about it but then again Mr Kiely and Mr Noonan have alot in common.
@O’reilly
“Tribal politics”? What is the whole Limerick City of Culture fiasco but Noonan’s bankrolling his party colleagues’ jollies at our expense? Six million magicked out of nowhere, and all controlled by FG hacks.
Gerbreen, Noonan has no authority to intervene in CRC debacle. That’s just a fact. Why are you suggesting he can?
Not directly. But he has allowed state monies to be used inappropriately. He should reduce funding.
By your logic surely PAC had no right to call them in either?
Let me rephrase that as it is unfair.
Mr Noonan has allowed state monies to be used in a very unwise manner by others (in case of CRC). Reduce payment by 742k as soon as possible and put the onus on the board of CRC to make up the shortfall.
My attitude re public money is that Noonan and team at the DoF sre accountable for every cent.
Doesn’t matter your attitude. It only matters what Noonan can affect. And in this case he has no jurisdictional authority. He’s a bystander like you…
He who pays the piper calls the tune ….
That’s your argument?
I’m simply stating that Noonan sets a budget where public funds end up going to CRC. He can use his influence to insist that CRC get their house in order. Think outside the box and away from civil war parties.
Why is there so much greed in Ireland? I mean we must be world famous it at this stage. Personally, money doesn’t motivate me, If i can live reasonably comfortable and work hard for what I earn. Im really beginning to hate the place, it must be said.
I don’t think we are world famous… Corruption here is nothing compared to other places. We just feel it more here with it happening to us
Why do you have to compare it to other places?
Get a grip filimìn… Most of these ‘other’ countries you talk about are Third world….IMO we are premier league in corruption in the western world.
Ireland is rated as one of the most corrupt countries on the planet.
Ireland ranks 21 out of 177 countries on ‘corruption’ index
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/ireland-ranks-21-out-of-177-countries-on-corruption-index-1.1615524
@ Dave, you should get a grip of the facts, we are 21st on the index with a score of 72. We are, amazingly to you I’m sure, not as corrupt as many other western countries, you’re opinion is is incorrect.
check it out:
there are 156 countries more corrupt than us and 20 countries less corrupt than us, that hardly makes us one of the most corrupt countries in the world.
Guards should be called in, end of.
Noonan as per usual telling people what they want to hear and not whats going to happen .He has made enough money for himself and his golden circle at this stage but its never enough.What a greedy selfish man we have as Minister for Finance he puts himself first and his Country last.
My 4 year old could fix this country if she took almost every penny people earn. Roll on May
i’m in tears…poor man, sure he will scrape by on his obscene pension so he will…would you ever cop on to yourself you FG troll
@ Rodgers I will respond only once to you I speak for nobody but myself but you on the other hand are pond life.
This Minister of Finance did not lead any recovery of any kind. He took his lead from the previous Government and complied with what they set in stone some years ago.
The only thing that this Minister of Finance has achieved is to get us back into the borrowing market (something that was classed as a “success”) where we can continue borrowing from someone else instead of the troika.
This Minister of Finance has failed to lead any reforms in our massive Social Welfare Bill – our massive Public sector pay and pensions bill and our massive (and ever growing )Heath Service bill.
The Sinn Fein leader may have done wrong with his actions – but Noonan well matched him when as Minister for health from 1994 – 1997 he left this lovely legacy:
“In 1994, the ‘Rainbow Coalition’ was formed and Noonan became Minister for Health. The department was embroiled in a scandal at the time regarding blood products contaminated with Hepatitis C virus, caused by the negligence of the Blood Transfusion Service Board. Noonan consistently held an authoritarian line on the case of Bridget McCole and would not budge on his views, suffering as a result of the scandal.[12][13][14] He threatened to take Bridget’s mother Ellen to the Supreme Court when she wondered why her daughter had contracted the disease. Noonan was forced to establish the Hepatitis C Tribunal of Inquiry and to issue several apologies for his handling of the affair.[11] Noonan remained as Minister until the 1997 general election. The Irish Times said “the woman involved had been infected by a negligent State agency, in the biggest health scandal since its foundation.”
Noonan is making decisions that will never affect him – he will either be off in paradise with his golden pension or dead, while his actions will leave our children and grandchildren with the pain of his and his parties actions.
Paul Mc – Richie Rogers had several of his outrageous comments again removed from several articles yesterday and today !
@ Eddie Barrett thanks for the clarification he appears to be delusional does Mr Richie Rodgers .I await the day when he claims that what I say on the journal are lies.
All talk when it is about non banking sectors — and a ”will do ” approach – but dumb silence when it comes to bankers bonuses .
What Keily did was disgusting, but what law might they have broken? Seriously is there anything illegal about this at all?
Do we have to ‘hope’ that he’ll just give it back? Maybe if Keily has family and friends that are honest with him, the CRC has some chance of recovery, but he’s shown a brass neck so far.
If anyone else has info like this scam, make it public! The law won’t help, it’s up to us.
When do politicians will give their money back??
PAC. Should audit all charities and government after this , who is to say this isn’t the only place where incorrect payments are made . Plus who is watching the contracts issued to senior people in these institutions . That way at least if they are correct then they can’t come back and say its in the contract and has to be paid . If they mention that you won’t get the right people for the money offered , there’s 400000 unemployed and surely one of them has all and probably more qualifications just not the cronyism or nepotism to get selected . I will come back for the money offered .
Obscene man talking to obscene man about obscene lump sums and obscene pensions ,,Ogochukwu say’s it’s obscene lol
Noonan has some neck to even still be in politics after his term as health minister and his handling of the hep C case
It would take a game changing seismic shift like Bondholder Noonan paying the taxpayers. He only cashed in his bonds when the media made it public. Hypocrite.
This is a media led charade. The government don’t give a shit who rips off who once they profit.
If they cared, legislation would be in place to stop this sort of corruption happening, but there’s isn’!
Roll on Monday when a new scandal will replace this one and we can all put our indignant faces on again! !
noonan words ‘on the face of it’ read until we find some reason not to look for the return of the money as we have our own cronies lapping up the same top ups… just look at the recent fg crony getting onto irish water and his resaon why he got on to the board ‘right place at the right time’
The only way the guards will be involved is if a member of the public reports the board of the CRC or a patient as it will be a long day waiting for anybody else including minister of health,justice minister or any head honcho in HSE reports this matter to the guards and while i am on the subject how many ex ministers and tds from the last govt who choose to run again and get elected will return their lump sums to compensate them for losing out of the noses in trough they were use to………none
I sold football pools for them years ago as a teenager. I really hope that money went on the service users and not these greedy thieving b@stards.
I wouldn’t blame them if i was in their shoes and could scam a bunch of peasants that will nothing but lie down and take it.I would scam them everyday for every penny they have
Why can’t Revenue give the tax element of the payment back to the CRC as a start?
Well done to PAC chairman John McGuinness for getting to the bottom of this enquiry, and a warning to other organisations using public monies to get themselves cleaned up or face the same exposure through some tough questioning.
If only the findings would lead to legislation and accountability.
Lets finish the PAC job first before deciding what is to be done about it. Opinions can quite often lead to mistakes being made.
Noonan you are a disgrace
and totally removed from reality. You paid the bond holders …..!!!
John McGuinness of FF had no option but to chair the hearing of how his party colleagues were exposed by the HSE running amok with public funds. I’m confident he would rather be anywhere else than in that chair at the mo.
He seems to have done a good job so far…why the cheap shot, damned if he does damned if he doesn’t
You must be joking. FF give the chair to FG and vice versa when the other are in power. Nothing cheap about a statement of fact. A gatekeeper role if ever there was one. Why not give it to an Independent?
How will they have a proper criminal investigation with all the politicians making comments? It seems clear company law was broken by the actions of the board of crc. So there should be a criminal investigation by the Gardai it the odce or the revenue. Leave the politics out of it. They were all political cronies anyway.
What about Bertie’s pension,enda’s pension,gilmores pension.maybe we should look into all huge pensions and why are they getting them and who authorized them.
Imagine waking up to that face every morning :o
It would seem Mr Noonan is already backing down. “On the face of it….” shows our politicians true colours. No balls. Why not take back the payouts and not just from Paul Kiely but all others. Let them sue and see how far they get. I agree with bonuses but only for those that have performed accordingly. It would seem Mr Noonan is already backing down.
With respect kieran ryan I think he was admitting he didn’t have a deep inside knowledge on the matter and speaking honestly. Noonan is a wiley old fox and a great minister. I bet he’ll top the poll in limerick if he runs again and hopefully he will.
With respect kieran ryan I think he was admitting he didn’t have a deep inside knowledge on the matter and speaking honestly. Noonan is a wiley old fox and a great minister. I bet he’ll top the poll in limerick if he runs again and hopefully he will.
Hey Noonan! Talk is cheap and they don’t come any cheaper than you. Show us yer Balls and take him to court. Where is the Minister for justice when all this is going on.
Minister for justice is too busy locking up old ladies who are not afraid to fight for the rest of us. Alan Shitter.
Mickey has the cheek of a brass monkey to even consider that others should pay back money while he and the rest of his gang squandered billions on themselves. I’m surprised that he hasn’t shut his mouth about this particularly with elections coming up in the near future. He’d mightiest well be aware that no matter what good he does now he will still be turfed out at the GE.
Really skoda. The most popular party in the country and the most popular minister in the country will seriously be turfed out at the next election? I suppose you would like FF and the shinners to trot in on the aul white horses and save us from ourselves?
Seriously fella, I don’t know where you get your information.
I agree the money should be paid back , I also agree that the moneys paid to all TDs. elected under a cloud of lies should resign and hand back the money they have been paid . FG. and Labour .
Sad to think that those greedy f**kers thought the best way to spend charity funds raised was on themselves! Absolute disgrace. I feel so sorry for the patients and their families who depend on this service.
It’s a civil matter not a criminal one .
Rubbish. Its. C R I M I N A L !
The Pot calling the kettle black !! CRC is only a drop in the ocean compared to the damage you have caused Noonan……..
We are tampering with evidence through such reporting & speculating. Media should limit comment, Gardai need to interview and arrest accordingly and trial should be brought forward in a speedy manner. Then lets gossip after due process.
@ Aodhan – This is Ireland. If you believe anyone will face formal charges for this then you obviously still believe in Santa ;)
Kevin
Please just give me your layman’s crude outline of the laws that were broken in this case because the problem as I see it is that this was NOT illegal so there can be no Gardai called and thus no arrests and no money returned and no indictments. Thats the crux of the issue here Kevin.
Richie – I never suggested anything illegal took place and that’s the problem. The elite don’t need to break the law to steal from sick children as they make the laws to fit their selfish needs. Why do you think FF did not enact legislation to regulate charities? Hint – Kiely et al had a direct line to Bertie.
have your say