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Updated 11pm
CONTROVERSIAL E-CIGARETTES are to be banned for under-18s.
Health Minister James Reilly is to ban the sale of the devices to those under the age of 18, TheJournal.ie can confirm.
“E-cigarettes contain nicotine which is a highly addictive and dangerous drug,” said a Department of Health spokesperson.
The ban comes as the department and Minister Reilly review evidence on the “potential harm and the potential benefits” as they prepare to launch wider regulation on their use in Irish society.
While e-cigarettes are marketed as a stop-smoking aid, they do contain nicotine. The UK has just banned e-cigarettes for under-18s, with the country’s Chief Medical Officer Sally Davies saying that:
We do not yet know the harm that e-cigarettes can cause to adults let alone to children, but we do know that they are not risk-free.
The EU has proposed that e-cigarettes be banned entirely if three or more member states ban their use in their own countries.
- First published 2.3opm
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They are not licenced. They are being marketed as a recreational device for you to use or not.
There are two parts to this
1. The device that vaporises the liquid.
2. The liquid containing the nicotine and flavouring (or no nicotine as the case may be)
Pharma companies like the ones that run Nicorette want them re-classified as a drug delivery device. They are lobbying hard in the EU to have them reclassified. Effectively taking them all off the market for about 5 years.
With the vaporiser they haven’t a leg to stand on. As this can also be used to vaporise liquid without nicotine so although it can be used as a drug delivery device. It also can be used recreationally without nicotine.
I do however think the liquids should be regulated as there is a lot of variation in manufacturing standards of the liquids. I only bought liquids from specific companies with good reputations.
I personally used one for about a year to give up cigarettes. Still take it out the odd time when I feel like a cigarette when I’m out for a few drinks. Being a scientist, I’ve read every paper about them and the benefits far outweigh the risks for me.
They do need to conclusively proven safe. No study has yet proven them otherwise but we need more data. More money should be put into research on these things but no company wants to back it because the delivery method was developed in china 10 odd years ago and not patented.
They are also very cheap to run, cost me about 10 euro every 3 months so tobacco won’t go near them. Not profitable enough.
It will be a bit rich if they are banned as a drug delivery device in the EU as the current method of nicotine delivery, smoking, is a proven carcinogen and widely available in every EU state.
brilliant post enda
Well said young man
Very well said :-)
You’d think the sale of ALL products that contain nicotine would be banned to under 18s. Why is this such a surprise? Nicotine is a poison. One table spoon of it could potentially kill an adult male. I smoked for 20 years, and recently switched to E-Cigs and find them a brilliant alternative to smoking, but they are by no means suitable for kids, & should never have been an option.
Neil my wife uses the e-cigarette anytime I buy the cartridges for her I can’t fail to notice the sign and writing on the pack saying Not for sale to under 18′s.
Somehow and I’m a cynic I think this move is more about lost revenue than anything else.
Nicotine is far more useful than you think. It’s being investigated for a while host of disease types including dementia. You are confusing it with tar and the other crap that’s loaded into tobacco. I commend your switch to e cigs.
Of course it is. €10 for a pack of 20 cigarettes is not a deterrent for anybody addicted to cigarettes, but it is an enormous money spinner for the government, one that they could not do without. If they were so conscious of fabricating ways to stop people from smoking they would have raised the age to legally purchase cigarettes to 25, and banned the sale of them from shops and supermarkets and created a license only means of selling tobacco products, like a publicans licence or something similar.
Neil they would also reduce the price of nicotine patches if they wanted people to quit.
Maybe so, but that doesn’t take from the fact that it is still a poisonous substance, and not suitable for kids. Morphine is a useful substance, but you wouldn’t allow your kids to smoke opium!
And provide more information on how to quit smoking. I guarantee you they will find a way to create an outright ban on E-Cigs within the next 12 months.
E Cigarets are the saving grace to the tobacco industry , I would think it’s only a matter of time before we see how damaging these are too.
Neil/Norman,
If you want to give up smoking without using a nicotine patch, spray try Tabex. It’s a natural substance used all over Europe. It is not allowed here for some reason. I suspect it has to do with revenue for the Pharma industry here and of course revenue for the Government. These tablets do work. As a Major smoker for the best part of 40 years I am living proof. It is a fraction of the cost of any other stop smoking crutch and no nicotine is involved. The German Army used to give it to their troops in the trenches during the first world war to keep them calm when no cigarettes were available. http://www.tabex.net/ Check it out for yourself.
There’s nicotine in tomatoes and potatoes. Ban them too for under-18s?
The tobacco industry missed the boat on e cigs and now watching their customers switch away from cigarettes
Barry, I think it’s the use of an object that replicates smoking, that also contains nicotine is the problem here. If kids were rolling up tomatoes and potatoes and smoking them to get a nicotine hit, I’m sure some action would be necessary too.
i have a funny mental image now Neil :)
Tomacco!
Me and my kids smoke opium plenty and we just be good. Bye
a teaspoon of caffeine would also kill you, should that be banned as well?
A tablespoon full of vitamin A could also kill you….everything in moderation!
Half a tsp for me so.
They did the same shit when they got rid of the box of ten , spouting the same tired crap , it will stop under age kids from buying . But like many others a box of ten would do me for a day , but I soon started smoking more when I had twenty . More revenue for the tax man . I must try the E CIG , before it’s gone too .
Son son son, morphine isn’t comparable to nicotine. Like I said you could well be taking nicotine patches in years to come to arrest cognitive decline. I’m on the fence with nicotine. Our body’s receive it so well.
Nicotine isn’t that toxic, all the statements about the toxicity of nic are based on 0 research, What we do have is reports from actual poisonings, both accidental and self administered. So far no lethal case and the levels of nicotine ingested have been 1000 times higher than the stated lethal level for nicotine 60mg for an adult.
I did some quick sums on this over the weekend and realised that I’m sitting with 80% of what I would have spent on Tobacco over the last 6 months, in my pocket today, simply by switching to ecig. That’s MY pocket – not the government’s (which at 80% tobacco tax) is where it would have been had I not moved to ecig. Of course it is in the governments interest to curtail the spread of these devices. It’s hitting their tax take.
What’s 80%? well it’s a nice cool grand. I’m a grand up and the govt are a grand down today, because of the switch. That’s what made me realise I’ll not go back to tobacco again. Might not be best reason to quit, but the thought of giving that inept shower 2k a year to squander on god knows what, is good enough reason for me.
+1
i started on the firebird Ego 3 weeks ago and i havent looked back!,im smoked for 20 years and was on 30 a day for the last few years,i find this product brilliant and the government are only looking to ban/curtail its sale because tobacco is a massive cash cow for them,they are in my opinion in the pockets of the globally powerful tobacco lobby and are just looking to make money ,the FDA in the states have cleared the liquids for safe sale and use so the government can kiss my smoke fee ass!they have worked for me and loads of people i know ,nicotine doesnt cause cancer its the 4000 other chemicals in cigarettes that do,put that in your pipe and smoke it fozzy bear!
I save 100% because I’m not addicted.
many people have given up completely from use of these as you can gradually lower the dose from 24mg down to 5mg then 0mg. I’m back on 24mg but got down to 12mg for 6 months, just need a fix during these stress times but i will go back down and eventually quite. On top of that, my Mam who has smoked for 35 years tried these too, Intellicig, used it for 3 weeks, got bored of it and guess what? Never smoked since, she’s not over a year completely nicotine free! After 35 years!
Banning these means only one thing, they want the smokers who find it hard to quit to pay more tax as these are hitting that market hard. Nicotine is a poison, we all know that, so why are Pharmacies still selling it then as Nicorette bla bla bla which are less effective than e-cigs for anyone wanting to quit.
People say, ah but you’re addicted to e-cigs now, so what? better than Tar and the 400 other apparent toxins found in tobacco, not to mention whats in the counterfeit cigs plus i can choose to lower the dosage. Can’t do that with tobacco.
sorry for keyboard typos :/ you get the idea
Fine I suppose, so long as its not a 1st step on banning them for the general population…(as the tobacco lobby would love).
they need a cigarette that doesnt contain nicotine, but will help with the hand to mouth motion that smokers are conditioned to do
You can get nicotine free liquids already.
but have they been passed from a health perspective
They can buy pipes.
Watch out for a new Tax On them in next years budget.
For health reasons only of course
Got a flashback today of trying to barter my e-cigarette for a Marlboro light at 2am Saturday night in Coppers.
Wait for legislation limiting their sale to registered pharmacies next. Nice little earner for Reilly’s friends and watch the price skyrocket.
Big Pharma are hopping mad that they didn’t come up with Ecigs – I tried the patches,inhaler,spray,chewing gum & none of them worked – Got the ecig last week & haven’t smoked since -
Probably safer for a teen to smoke an E- cig then tobacco.
Far better for them not to get hooked on such a drug full stop though
I said instead of tobacco. Ovo it would be better for them not to smoke.
you said then,not than
Grammar police at the ready
Tobacco lobby is powerful. As it the drink and pharma lobbies.
So they’ll ban e cigarettes but not actual cigarettes which are potentially f-ing lethal. The auld government wouldn’t get a fraction of the money off the e cigs instead of real one. Another big F you Reilly
Why were these Liscensed for selling without being fully tried and tested
Why are cigarettes and alcohol licensed to be sold at all knowing the risks? These are aids that help addicts curtail the known harmful effects of conventional nicotine delivery methods (cigarettes) and that should be viewed as a positive step forward.
You think they’re being used as an aid to quitting? That’s not what I’ve witnessed. Working in retail for the last 7 years now and I’m shocked at the amount of people now walking into shops puffing away on these e-cigaettes… am excuse me people but you never walked into a shop with an actual cigarette!! I’m absolutely sick of it! Before you jump down my throat I am a smoker myself. I wouldn’t touch an e-cigaette if I was paid to. It’s bad enough I’m smoking something that i know will kill me without filling my body full of toxins god knows what they are! It has never been confirmed that these devices are healthier than cigarettes and also the amount of kids with these things is absolutely appalling! Ban em I say! Already banned in New York so it’s only a matter of time. If you wana give up then DO IT!
Who’s selling these to the kids?
Well said! I think people just use it as an excuse when they cant actually smoke a real cigarette inside so they can use the e-cig instead…. coming from an ex smoker that went cold turkey as I figured it was just as bad using patches gum or e-cigarettes I find it strange they even allow them in covered areas like shops as they still contain nicotine… was recently In a hairdressers & the receptionist was puffing away on one & I found it quite rude so I walked out of the salon… There not allowed to be used where I work unless you go outside..
sorry they are not banned in new york at all,id do a little research if i were you
Good answer pal.
When your inhaling something that you need to plug into the wall to recharge I hope your two brain cells acquire a thought that sends a signal the part if the brain that realizes what a moron you really are.
Just don’t smoke, everyone moans about how hard it is to stop. I quit one day, just figured out its pointless, boring, killing me and gives me a crap feeling after smoking one. Kind of put two and two together. Plus you smell disgusting. I laugh when I see idiots light up but that’s just me… Smoke away.
You dont smokw the lithium ion battery ,the battery is used to vapourise the liquid in the atomiser, but then again if you had two brain cells you would know that!
They will be banned from March this year in NYC Karl, the same as regular cigarettes.
yep agreed ,but still not banned as of yet,ill be in NY at the end of march so ill see what the situation is when i get there
What a completely crap contribution.
By that logic, everyone should get rid of their AC units, or the plug in air fresheners. You really are a primitive minded fool.
You know what I find hilarious about O’Reilly going after the E-Cigs? The fact that he isn’t attacking the cigarette companies about the known hazardous chemicals in their cigarettes. For instance, Marlboro Lights uses ammonia to enhance the flavours and to puff up the tobacco, yet it has not been removed from the manufacture of cigarettes. Flavoured cigarettes (i.e.menthol) have been banned, so why not ban the sale of cigarettes with such chemicals added that enhance flavour?
And before you think that I’m attacking cigarettes, I’m a smoker myself and I have an E-Cig. If O’Reilly wanted to look down at E-Cigs from his high horse, then he also have to impose tougher regulations on cigarettes. Otherwise, he’s just showing favoritism and proving that he’s bending the knee to the tobacco companies.
“Otherwise, he’s just showing favoritism and proving that he’s bending the knee to the tobacco companies.”
Has he ever tried to hide this?
Couldn’t agree more. But you’d think that being a representative of the state, he’d have a little more cop-on. If only he spent at least half his time looking at reducing the damage cigarettes do, instead of being afraid of magical practices of the e-cig, or taking away pensioners medical cards.
Get mine off tmart.com for a fiver. Sent from Hong Kong so ban all ya want. Won’t stop me
You will find customs will be intercepting your consignment.
Comes in a small package with a value of $7 dollars on it. Doesn’t get checked by customs
exactly unless they train their dogs to sniff out lab sealed nico liquid, not a chance.
I was smoking for 8 years until I started on the electronic cigarette about 4/5 months ago.
Now, I rarely use the E-Cig. Most of my cravings have gone and I will only use it every 6/7 hours to settle any urge I may have. E-Cigs worked to help me quit.
Of course, I don’t think children under 18 should have access to them, but they do work and I’ve read a lot of stuff about them and they are clearly way less harmful than cigarettes.
Why are people complaining about people using them in shops? There’s no smell, like there would be from a real cigarette. And there is hardly any nicotine or any damaging chemicals in the vapour.
I am a bad asthmatic and without that e – cigarette I would never have given up smoking. Its ridiculous that their on about banning. Furthermore, I wend myself down to 0% liquid nicotine and now have given that up but without it my health would be alot worse.
Why would someone with asthma even start smoking in the first place?
I’m an asthmatic and I smoked. It’s not something you consider when you’re young.
Would it not make more sense to make them prescription only for under 18’s.
What medical condition requires a child to take a prescription if nicotine?
A 17 year old could be smoking for years. Do they not have the right to try and give up.
Children can always just stop consuming.
Nicotine is not & never will be a medicine.
What I find amusing about the whole under 18s argument is I’ve been working in an ecig shop that has an over 18s policy for the last 14 months and I’ve only once had to refuse to serve an under 18 and even in that situation their mother had sent them in. From what I’ve seen 80% of customers are age 30+ and around 18% are 25 to 30 and maybe 2% aged 18 to 25. I’ve also only seen one customer start vaping that wasn’t doing it to switch from tobacco and that person was spending €90 per week on nicotine gum and had been using it 2 years. For people interested in research links theres always lots of research links and information being posted in the Irish Vaping group on facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/irishvaping/
Worked for me where all other attempts failed, 20 a day for 25 years, ecigarettes saved my life. Haven’t smoked in over 6 months, feel great. So I’m a big fan, however I do agree not under 18.
Completely plain packaging of tobacco won’t happen. Back room concessions. ECigs will be banned in the EU and Big Tobacco wins again.
Didn’t even enter my mind that they would have been legal for under 18′s in the first place? Isn’t the addictive nicotine the reason it’s illegal for under angers to smoke anyway? So how come it wasn’t automatically illegal for these stupid things?? Which btw I think are way worse for people. It makes smoking way cooler than what it is, and lets be honest the attractiveness of being able to “smoke” indoors must be appealing. I think they should be banned altogether. It’s like giving people the option if having pure alcohol without having to get it in the form of a beer etc. it makes no sense, it’s just serving an addiction and not per say an enjoyable thing for lack of a better word.
you don’t know what your talking about.
Eoin,
The reason it is illegal for under 18s to smoke is that smoking cigarettes is proven to cause cancer. This is due to the tar and toxins inhaled when burning tobacco to get your nicotine fix.
This offers a safer way to get a nicotine fix by heating a liquid containing nicotine with vegetable glycerol and/or propene glycerol as a carrier into a vapour and inhaling it. No combustion of organics involved. No studies on this method have found them to be harmful but we need a lot more data.
Nicotine itself has not been proven to be any more harmful than caffeine, would you propose a ban on coffee due to it’s addictiveness ?
by any chance would you have any links to recent studies or trials enda?id be very curious to read them ,thanks
agree Eoin, inhaling a man made vapour directly into ones lungs is not a good substitute by a long shot!
Here is one Harvard study, more social than science however.
http://www.seeht.org/Zachary%20Cahn%20and%20Michael%20Siegel.pdf
I’ll see can I dig out anything else.
although happy to be corrected with evidence from studies by all means
For the record, the sale of tobacco products to minors by a registered tobacco retailer is illegal.
It is NOT illegal for a minor to smoke, it is NOT illegal for a minor to have a tobacco product on their person, it is NOT illegal for a minor to ask an adult to purchase a tobacco product for them and it is NOT illegal for an adult to give a tobacco product to a minor.
The purchase, consumption( other than in the residence under supervision) possession and requesting a proxy purchase of all alcoholic goods ARE offences, as is the supply by an adult, whether paid or otherwise.
The Department of Health have continuously rejected calls from various stakeholders to ally the tobacco and alcohol laws in this regard given that smoking should be a strictly adult only activity.
It IS illegal for an adult to supply a tobacco product to someone under the age of 18.
It is NOT an offence for an adult ( other than a retailer)to supply a tobacco product to a minor.
See PQ no 390 from Deputy Charles Flanagan to Minister Reilly on Dec 3rd 2013.
The Minister confirmed that the Public Health Tobacco Act 2002 did NOT provide for an offence for adults engaged in proxy purchasing to be prosecuted.
It is an offence for both a minor and an adult to attempt to purchase alcohol on behalf of a minor, and it is an offence for a person to supply alcohol to a minor other than in a home situation by parents but NOT tobacco
ecigarettes pose an enormous social dilemma that governments and anti-smoking groups are at odds to make sense of. On the one hand most medical evidence so far has confirmed that they are probably 99% safer than tobacco combustion. If all smokers converted to ecigs the there would be a huge pay off in terms of reduced burden on the health system, BWT that’s your tax that pays for it. For that to happen all smokers need to be informed and ecigs need to be available and, dare I say it, ‘desirable’. On the other hand do we want a whole new ‘additional’ generation addicted to ecigs? It’s a difficult balancing act.
They should also reconsider how these are advertised,
These are pretty much new wave cigarettes, an alternative to smoking, not cutting down,
Should there use be promoted on tv?
If Marlboro release a 20pack branded eciggarette 2m they would be allowed advertise and promote there use,
Yes they are much better for u, but promotion of a highly addictive drug is possibly not ideal
Follow the lead of New York and ban them from public indoor use too.
Yep… No need for indoor use of e-cigs
yep do that ,because what they produce is a water vapour! ban kettles and farting in pubs too so
An Establishment I frequent has also, rightly in my opinion, banned their’ use indoors as they’re a Nicotine product so that spells out its’ own message too.
Curious to know other premises policy as E-Cigarettes or not, it’s smoking in the workplace.
I contacted the HSA myself on Twitter and their’ policy is that it’s up to the organisation involved be it a Pub, Club, Shop etc. to have their’ own rules/regulations/guidelines.
It isn’t smoking. There is no smoke. You know this. Would you not be better off getting worked up over something that matters, rather than trying to force other people to pander to your whining?
Winner!
why not ban all cars from driving within public spaces where theres pedestrians cos the fumes are?
We can already see a ‘not so keen’ petroleum industry on electric cars becoming more popular, solar powered too = no running costs! Oil, Tobacco, Alchohol, these are the real problems we don’t need to rely one yet….
yea that’s right.
let’s ban the pressure cookers while we’re at it.
I commend what Min. for Health James of Reilly is doing.
There’s Nicotine in them there E-Cigs so shucking fure they ought not to be sold to Under-18s/Minors!
However given the prevalence of schoolkids smoking tobacco product as long as such products have been available, the sea-change will be in the enforcement but that all depends on how (un) scrupulous the retailer and anybody else is in supplying such product to the underage kids who do smoke (Parents, “Friends”, Relatives etc.).
They look rediculous
Just ban nicotine full stop people will get over it in time
As prohibition taught us – Banning something completely always works!
Look at the headshops..
Ye some people still get stuff but most dont and got over it
I’d wager it’s because people are going for other illegal drugs, weed, cocaine, pills etc. rather than what was once a ‘legal’ high. I think that’s all that was appealing about stuff they sold in head shops – it was legal.
Banning nicotine altogether will not work and will just drive everybody to the already massive black market.
Question : how much tax revenue from the sale of tobacco do EU Governments get every year… ? Answer .. Billions and Billions of Euro… Question 2 .. how much do they get from E Cigarettes and liquids ? answer: except for a small VAT amount … nothing in comparison… case closed.
I smoked for 27 years and thanks to an E Cigarette I was able to gradually wean myself off addiction to nicotine.
Fact..
is no one concerned about inhaling unknown vapour into their lungs though? surely the ONLY thing that should enter our lungs is the air we breath? i find it quite scary that so many people use these un regulated un tested things, however highly commend the efforts made to quit, i quit over 5 years ago ( patches for 2 weeks then cold turkey) and do get where people are coming from RE revenue etc, but should really only use these as a very very short term substitute , at least until we have more knowledge of long term effects (far too new on the market to know long term ) be careful people , you need your lungs!!
Should not be sold to under 18s, everyone else trying to stop, what happened to going cold turkey…. has worked for me for the last 6 months after 25 years smoking 20 a day
what works for you doesnt work for everyone else,but i agree with not selling them to under 18s ,although id rather see a 17 year old using these than real ones,and remember they are not a tobacco product
well done, keep up the good work, over 5 years here :)
Dam it now no one will take up smoking…..;(
Why are these even allowed, when they know they can definitely kill or hram you.
Are you for real New Property? The above is just the sort of untrue statement that really scares me as a Vaper, as unfortunately it seems more and more common to find people who share your misguided opinion. Please link even one study that has shown conclusively that there is any danger whatsoever from using e cigs? You will find none, as none exists. So kindly refrain from spouting such nonsense in future perhaps?
Sorry thought the same, the article says nicotine is a harmful and additive drug that only reason I say they shouldn’t be allowed if the knowing can cause harm wit mis use.
It’s more or less accepted at this stage that nicotine is comparable to caffeine when it comes to assessing damage from use to the human body. Addictive, yes absolutely, but far better to be addicted to nicotine in e liquid than tobacco, which contains about 4000 proven harmful chemicals and toxins alongside nicotine.
I am yet to be believe that these devices are safe I don’t think they should be banned either if they are helping people give up, but the fact that people could have legally sold them to under 18′s at any point is a joke in itself, why does this country always step in too late in relation to protecting our young people.
have your say