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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXayhUzWnl0
(Video: rory oneill/YouTube)
A VIDEO BY Rory O’Neill – also known as drag queen Panti – on homophobia in Irish society has gone viral, with more than 100,000 views in less than two days.
In the video, Panti appears on stage at the Abbey Theatre in Dublin following a performance of a play to give a 10-minute speech about the prejudice faced by many gay people on a daily basis.
Panti was invited to give the speech after RTE apologised for comments made by O’Neill after he was asked by Saturday Night Show presenter Brendan O’Connor about homophobia. The state broadcaster also paid out around €80,000 to members of Catholic lobby group The Iona Institute and Irish Times columnist John Waters.
In the video, Panti fights back over the use of the word ‘homophobia’ which he says has been appropriated by other groups since The Saturday Night Show interview.
“For the last three weeks, I have been lectured to by heterosexual people about what homophobia is and who is allowed to identify it,” he told the audience.
“People who have never experienced homophobia in their lives… have told me that unless I am being thrown into prison or herded onto a cattle truck then it is not homophobia – and that feels oppressive”.
He says that Irish gay people are in the “ludicrous situation” where they are not allowed to say publicly what they feel oppressed by because the definition has been disallowed.
He told the audience:
For the last three weeks, I’ve been denounced from the floor of the Oireachtas, [by] newspaper columns [and] the seething morass of internet commentary, denounced for using hate speech because I dared to use the word ‘homophobia’, and a jumped-up queer like me should know that the word homophobia is no longer available to gay people, which is a spectacular and neat Orwellian trick because now it turns out that gay people are not the victims of homophobia, homophobes are the victims of homophobia
The video has gain traction since being posted by O’Neill on Sunday night, hitting 100,000 views just after 11am today.
It has been shared on Facebook and Twitter thousands of times, appeared on the Huffington Post and has been tweeted by a number of high-profile people, including television presenter Graham Norton, popular US columnist Dan Savage and drag queen Ru Paul.
An estimated 2,000 people gathered in Dublin city centre on Sunday to protest at the treatment of the debate around homophobia on RTE.
RTE has refused to comment on the amount of money paid to the Iona Institute members saying it does not comment on defamation settlements.
(@PantiBliss/Twitter)
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Incredible speech and followed so well by Paul Murphy MEP standing in front of members of the European parliament and calling out all the homophobes for what they are.
It’s safe to say Iona have shot themselves in the foot, if they had accepted their obvious homophobia and not tried to play victim nobody would have batted an eyelid.
Thank you Panti for speaking the truth!
i’m interested to see if Waters and Iona will go after Paul Murphy for compensation as well,
they may not like the word, but lets face it we’re only calling a spade and spade here.
I’m honestly not sure they have. I think a lot of people will feel like unless they march down the road waving the rainbow flag that they’ll be labeled homophobic and I think that could turn into a lot of no votes in the polls.
Panti himself didn’t even disagree with the other guy on the Saturday night show when he said there’s no way that in reality the general consensus of people is as heavily in favour as the Red C polls suggest, more like 50/50.
I’m inclined to think positively. It’s such an important decision for myself and other LGBT people, that being positive is all we know
About 4 or 5 speeches have affected how I view the world and the people within it…..This is certainly one of those speeches.
Who am I, or you, or anyone else for that matter to tell anybody how to dress or live their life or when and when not to say something if they feel it’s the right thing to say!!
Shame on RTE, Shame on Iona, Shame on the homophobes, and more power to the brave and honest Panti!!
If half of this country were as honest as Rory the country would be a much better place!!!
isitabizit, in the whole screaming match of being defamed and people’s “good names” being taken away from them, Panti’s actual point was missed.
Panti clearly defined what she felt a homophobe was and it was nothing to do with waving rainbow flags.
You’re not getting what I’m saying. Panti clearly said the other night that if you don’t agree with him you’re a homophobe. I can see that making a lot of people uneasy, that’s all.
Any link to the Paul Murphy speech?
Here you are Alan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jV6NVeWGqoQ
@Martin: Paul Murphy MEP was speaking under parliamentary privilege, so as would be the case about comments made in the Oireachtas, the persons he spoke about have no legal cause of action. It would be deliciously ironic if RTÉ were to have the balls to broadcast his short speech in full on the news.
Panti did not say that if you disagree with her you are a Homophobe – she said if you disagree with granting equality to gay people you are a Homophobe.
The point Panti made, if you watch the video, is that we are all capable of homophobic thoughts, even gay people, and that’s perfectly ok. What’s not ok is to campaign against gay rights and expect not to be called out for being homophobic. And it’s most certainly not ok for the state broadcaster to hand over taxpayers money in the hope that it would make everything go away.
All Panti has done is try and explain the devastating effect homophobia can have on LGBT people, and how varied and subtle it can be. As Colm O’Gorman said on the SNS “debate” on Saturday night, since when is holding a mirror up to people and asking them to reflect on their attitudes a bad thing?
@isitabizit
He didn’t say that at all.
complaints@rte.ie
Let them know how you feel about their spending your licence fee money on giving a truck load of money to these ultra conservatives – and why do they keep having them on as commentators? Why is the Iona Institute given that privileged position – I mean who the hell are they to have that influence?
@Miss Field:
And lets also have a debate in Ireland about who gets to use the word “Institute” !
In the UK, the Companies Office only permits organisations “that typically undertake research at the highest level or are professional bodies of the highest standing” to use “Institute” in their name – and they ask for public comment on whether that is the case before giving the go-ahead.
In Ireland, “Lolek Limited” have unilaterally adopted the name “The Iona Institute” and the Companies Registration Office has waived it right through. Which is really as laughable as me setting up “The Horticultural Institute” from my back garden tomorrow (I don’t even know how to plant a bulb!)
Thanks for the link. Done.
Sen. Norris telling it like it is in the Seanad today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wMamyBOvqhI
Much better for who?
Equality is never enough , the ultimate goal is of course – privilege.
Watch-, the so-called activists won’t disband simply because their current aims have been achieved .
John’s right lads…
After marriage equality, LGBT people will be aiming for the much coveted SUPER MARRIAGE!
Super Marriage is of course awarded to very few meaning that it really does make you better than the rest. Those in a super marriage actually get complimentary drinks in bars, lower taxes, free pet licenses and of course a free go on the rollercoaster at Funderland every year.
Phobia is the wrong word.
Is it Katy?
It means an irrational aversion. Can you find anything rational about discriminating based upon something that’s not really any of your business?
Is phobia the wrong word?
Sean that link doesn’t work – says it was removed by the user :(
Very powerful speech! No drama queen theatrics. Just very sad that this country of ours still makes anyone feel this way. Lots of respect for Rory.
Respect for Panti, but not so much respect for the lady on RTÉ’s panel who swore she had never been against the decriminalisation of homophobic – it’s impressive that she could have forgotten ever writing such a vitriolic letter to the paper: http://twitter.com/charlytwits/status/429758124749123584/photo/1
Shows how far RTÉ had to go to the margins of reasonable-thinking in order to find somebody to “debate” these issues on live television.
Yeah spotted that letter myself,
She holds some very backwards and ignorant views when it comes to gay people,
@Winding down
Shocking letter, but I’m not surprised. These right wing Christian nutters all come out of the woodwork anytime gay rights or abortion are mentioned in the media. It must be so tiring holding so much irrational hate for others all the time…
And why on earth do RTE give such an extreme group as the Iona Institute so much airtime – they don’t really represent anybody.
@Miss Filed
I agree, these homophobic bullies should be banned from print and media…
Unfortunately they seem to have some shadowy supporters intent on keeping them and their vile venomous opinions in the mainstream…
A question Miss Filed many people have been asking, but no answers have been coming.
The bigoted Iona Institute led by David Quinn, Patricia Casey etc have some sinister hold over RTE that needs to come to light.
Here’s a fascinating investigation from last summer, into who exactly is behind The Iona Institute: http://bocktherobber.com/2013/06/what-exactly-is-the-iona-institute/
Makes for a genuinely interesting read.
This saddens me this was originally wrote, it saddens me that people would have had and have this view.
It also makes me happy!
It makes me happy because RTE like said were so stretched to get someone to talk, the best they found was a women who has clear issues on remembering her own political stance thus devaluing her opinion on equality while strengthening the oppositions!
Rightly so. It is a powerful speech that everyone should view, be they gay,bi,or straight.
Probably more like 5000 watched it 20 times.
@ istabizit – what a sad attempt to try and deflect the importance of this speech.Some people are just afraid of the truth.
Do you honestly think 100,000 people sat down to watch it? I certainly don’t.
Yes, – youtube views are based on users. If you watch it several times it records you once as long as you don’t delete your cookies.
How many people in Ireland have access to the internet, Isitabizit? Clue, it’s more than a hundred. And did you hear that people in other countries can use it too? This all may be news to you.
This video has been shared all around the world itsabbiz. Hence the views. You are talking nonsense. Panti made some very good points in the speech. Excellent speaker and representative for the community.
Isitabit
YES
@isitabit
Stop Trolling… The video has gone viral – internationally and globally. It’s even been on the Huffington post. The reason why is because it is an amazing speech which resonates with anyone who has a soul… you clearly haven’t got one so you probably don’t get it…
I would say a hell of a lot more people watched it.
I was sitting at home with frienfs and watched it.
That was 5 people viewing on one hit.
Please stop trying to discredit people by attempting to rubbish their views.
Sure GLEN wouldn’t do something like delete their cookies to rack up views and then “leak” this to the journal. No wouldn’t believe it in a million years.
That’s wild speculation based on nothing other than dislike for what you’ve seen in the video.
Yet another fake twitter account set up to stir sh1t under a pseudonym.
Why not post under your real name ?
Mike,
Most likely so he can stir up sh!t using the wonderful anonymity of the internet.
If people have an opinion (which they are perfectly entitled to) they should have the courage to use their real identity and not post under a false name.
Hard to respect peoples opinion when they hide behind a pseudonym
Not wishing to steer this in a different direction, but I fully believe that there is a place for anonymity in internet commenting in many matters such as abortion, decriminalisation of something, spousal abuse, even something as common (sad as that is these days) as being in a position of defaulting on a mortgage.
There is a need for the protection of anonymity, but with that comes the responsibility to use that wisely and fairly.
No doubt about it, Sean. I’m all for privacy on the internet, but not if you abuse it purely for spouting hateful ideas and false accusations.
You’re a very negative and cynical guy aren’t ya?
Isitabizit is gaining a bit of a track record on the Journal for posting crap on articles lately. Yeah, you’re in that category now mate, well done!
I was at a meeting this morning, in a not very busy hotel. On the way in, I overheard some people at a table in the lobby discussing the video and how wonderful it was. I heard the hotel manager talking about it to one of the receptionists, again praising it. It came up and was chatted about, positively, at the end of the meeting I was in.
I’ve no bother at all seeing it been viewed 100,000 times when in a random hotel it is being discussed that much. Or 125,000+ times as it is now. Gone viral and heading for the million.
I guess the Iona Institute never heard of the Streisand Effect.
Brilliant speech. This is what is needed to educate people. Keep sharing.
My first reaction was brilliant speech but why wear the wig and the boobs, but now I realise that the messages must travel together.
Talk, explain, describe, at an individual level. Ten the pride marches will mean something more than people going ott.
Thank you Panti Rory.
Still think you’re cuter as a man….
@Katy,
Good to see that you are beginning to understand the gay rights cause a bit more ;)
@Katy I agree with Frank, it is interesting to see your evolution on perceiving homophobia over the last few weeks. Its nice to see that sometimes the comments on here can assist someone evolve personally.
I would happily vote Panti into political office – speaks a lot more sense than most
Well said Panti ! Will I be censored for posting this here ?!??
Ionahomophobicinstitute !
This speach will go down in the history books as one of the greatest speeches of our time and rightly so, Mr O’ Neill is an inspiration! Shining a light on the oppression of LGBT people in Ireland and in turn the world over regardless of your country of origin, he is to be commended for his heartfelt words and for standing up for what is right and just in such a fabulous way! Go Team Panti!!!
really? I watched it but it wasn’t really anything I hadn’t heard before. Not to diminish Rory’s experiences, which have surely been cruel and hurtful, but thousands of gay people in Ireland have been through the same and worse, and still do. But he is preaching to the choir, and maybe that’s why it had no impact on me, or probably on a lot of other people.
But did nobody find a little disturbing his claim that those who haven’t experienced ‘homophobia’ have no right to define what the word means? Because I did, and do we really accept that you and I can never, ever call anyone, for example, a racist again, because we have never experienced racism? really? because that is the same thing.
It was surely heartfelt and sincere and everything, but it was unlikely to influence anyone who doesn’t already support SSM.
I think his point was exclusivity.
The word should be a socially agreed upon phrase which encompasses the view of society.
Rory O’Neill, Iona, GLEN, etc. don’t have the monopoly on defining homophobia, at the very least if you don’t have the informed opinion of the populace, you at least need the buy in.
Tim, you are not comparing like with like.
Indeed you can call someone racist, if you believe them to be so. Similarly you can call someone homophobic if you believe them to be so.
You should be absolutely free to do so, if you believe what you were saying is true and have good reasons for believing it.
But that’s exactly what Rory did on the Saturday Night Show. It was because they thought he should NOT have that freedom that the Iona Institute et al scattered solicitors letters hither and yon. And RTE failed to protect his, and by extension, your freedom to call it as you see it.
maybe it isn’t like with like, but racism often gets brought into discussions about sexuality, so it seemed appropriate, but I’d rather get a legal opinion before calling someone something purely on the grounds that I believed it to be right – sincerity is no defence, unfortunately, and I’ve been advocating freedom of speech long enough to know that it has to be applied equally or not at all and to observe that often the otherwise well-meaning don’t follow this basic rule. You have to be able to defend yourself against an accusation that, while held sincerely by the person making it, is not consistent with your own opinion of what the accusation was, particularly when it’s something like ‘homophobia’ that doesn’t have a clearly defined meaning, and where different parts of society have quite different ideas about it.
I didn’t raise the Iona/RTE thing and have no interest in commenting on it, but it’s important to note that “feelings” or attitudes like ‘being homophobic’ should neither be made illegal nor form the basis for more laws to supposedly protect them. I’d have thought – somewhat naively as it turns out – that we Irish people could deal with one group of people expressing their views and another going on television to complain about them without lawsuits and hurt feelings being the basis for compensation and complaining, but it turned out that we as a society weren’t mature enough for that, which is sad.
This is a splendid example of giving someone enough rope to hang themselves. I bet Iownya and Waters are kicking themselves right now.
They can comfort shop with the taxpayers’ money cowardly RTE gave them.
Let’s make it a million
The share scale of the support received should send a clear message to the bigots. Their repulsive views will not go unchallenged.
Anyone up for a picket at Iona headquarters??
@Billy
I think that’s definitely on the cards..
And how would you go about organising such a thing? Seriously like??
Just round up a bunch of like-minded people, set a date, turn up and chant.
At this stage, though, it seems less necessary. Iona unloaded both barrels of the gun into their own feet. The further this story spreads, the worse they look. And the story is still alive and kicking. I’m almost inclined to think that they might even have done the gay community a favour.
@Chris Dunphy
I agree, sunlight is the best disinfectant…
Bring all the nasty homophobes into the light..
Panti’s speech will hit a million by the end of the week..
They did us a favor…
Guys, as much as I think Iona are deplorable, I don’t agree with picketing their headquartered. They are currently on a ‘woe-is-me’ crusade, claiming victim status and this will just play into their hands.
Instead I propose picketing RTE and any other media outlet that gives them.disproportionate airtime and coverage. Take the wind out of their sales and call a spade a spade wherever and whenever we can.
Let’s not give them what they want, let’s instead disarm them
Excellent point, Ailbhe.
Lets be honest Rory O’Neill stole the show and is an actor like everyone else dressed to play a part on the stage of the Abbey Theatre. Fair play to him for getting his message across and fair play to the Journal for highlighting it. Let us also remember how the Abbey has played its part in shaping this countries history and not be dismissive of the message it sends out.
Amazing Speech! Ireland’s future is looking bright and one day school kids will be reading this in history books.
This is far more about equality than just homophobia. Was was said in video can in some ways be applied to any sector of society. We should all be treated as equal both socially and in legal/ rights as well. If the issue is black/white, male/female, seperated parents rights etc etc it’s fundamentally the same discrimination …. Well done, a powerful speach born unfortunately out of experience.
Very powerful words & very sad that words like these still need to be spoken in 2013. Well done on fighting back & on keeping the issue on the front page.
That speech will go down in history. What a powerful moment. I’m going to show this all my kids
That is one of the most powerful speeches I have heard about homophobia in a long time. An excellent insight into the way society can make gay people feel on a daily basis. Really show certain people up for the cretins they are.
A very succinct description of what homophobia is. And really brings home how people, all of us, can oppress people with our language and categorizations.
That is one if the most eloquent and powerful speeches I’ve ever experienced.
I forgot to add earlier, hats off to The Journal staff for covering this story when other outlets seem to wish it would just disappear asap, history will look back kindly on you.
Or maybe other media outlets that the Gays are not the only group in Ireland feeling aggrieved, His experiences I’m sure just as relevant to anyone who as experienced discrimination or bullying because they are different, be it the fat guy at the traffic lights, the ugly guy/girl, the disabled guy, the deformed guy, the ginger guy.
LGBT – You are not the only discriminated against people in the world who are treated unfairly for been different, get off the stage already. Here’s to ending all discrimination against all people not just the ones who shout the loudest!
fat people, ugly people, disabled, deformed or ginger people aren’t treated as less than in the eyes of the state when it comes to marriage.
@Sean. Thats because our state recognizes marriage as been between a man and a woman and that’s the way it will remain until the people see fit to have it redefined so no discrimination. People have always been jeered or bullied for been different, its not nice but an unfortunate reality of life, even if SSM passes into law do you think that if a guy is dressed in drag or assless chaps in public he wont get looks or remarks?
You seem pretty obsessed with assless chaps, John. Not sure what your fascination with them is. If you like, I can order you your own pair?
Back on point;
The state recognising marriage as between a man and a woman (which is never really stated anywhere in our constitution in those terms) is discriminating against same sex couples. Just because that is how it is ‘defined’, does not mean that that definition is not discriminatory.
Just because people have always been jeered and bullied for being different does’t make it right. It’s a reality that so many people are not accepting. They are trying to change it.
I’m sure even if SSM is passed, people will pass remarks and stare at something they find strange, something they haven’t seen before. And not even those extreme examples you have cited.
I get strange looks, remarked and commented on when I decide to hold my partners hand in public. Like Panti says in this video, this makes me check myself. It sometimes stops me from showing even a slightest bit of affection to the man I love in public. Should it? No!. I should be free to show him the love I feel in public, like you would to your (I assume, opposite sex) partner, without second guessing myself.
Legalising SSM will, hopefully, gradually change that. People will start seeing that same sex couples should not be treated any differently than straight couples. It’s not going to immediately change the views of those people. But for generations that come after, it won’t seem so strange to see two men walking down the street holding hands.
@John:
You’re right that is what our state recognises at the moment, but that isn’t the issue. The discrimination comes from those who would seek to prevent this from changing. Also, you can’t move the goalposts, you did say in your previous post that LGBT people ARE discriminated against.
The fact that people are bullied or jeered at is pretty much endemic, you’re right. But there is a difference between small minded, individual bullies and the State implicitly outlining that that section of society is “different” and “less than” by allowing that discrimination to exist, in law.
You’ve mentioned assless chaps twice today, I honestly haven’t seen people wandering around the streets in them personally, and I’ll admit I’d probably consider that to be “different” and pretty much inappropriate, but then again, you can’t look at things like this on the basis of the extremes as so many seem to.
Regarding drag, I have asked this before, not of you I don’t think though, that there is something innately wrong with the following (VERY small) group of entertainers who dress as women for the purposes of entertainment?
Lily Savage (Paul O’Grady)
Mrs Brown (Brendan O’ Carroll)
Cissie and Ada (Les Dawson and Roy Barraclough)
ALL of Monty Python at one time or another
@John
I apologise on behalf of the entire gay community for being so selfish. Before your enlightened comment, I was unaware that wanting to be treated equally was such a deplorable thing. We should just stop fighting and let heterosexual people tell us how to live our lives as they see fit.
This is becoming a little tiresome !
And tired though you are, you still feel the urge to comment.
Surely that’s the sign of an important and relevant issue.
Image how tiresome hundreds of years of inequality and oppression feels like. Just because you fancy someone of the same gender.
We still hear rebel songs from the fight for Independence. This has only been a few weeks!
@John g mcgrath,,
If you find the human rights of gay people tiresome.. then don’t bother reading about it…
A case of Panti getting his knickers in a twist
@ qwerty – wow what a pun!! you are hilarious I bet nobody has ever thought of that one..sad
Inspiring speech.
Come on RTE, admit your mistake in giving all that money to Iona.
You were wrong to do it and I’m sure you know that, by now
I took the time and listened very carefully to the video. It was a very honest opinion, from a very emotionally scarred human. I of course don’t agree with his conclusions, born out of the emotional insecurities he lives from day to day. But he does not have the right, even from the depth of his own conflicts, to tar others with the homophobia label. If he doesn’t grasp this, then he should not be allowed to peddle his distorted views on national tv.
Paddy
It is YOU who doesn’t grasp things. You say he’s emotionally scared and insecure ect?
Far far from it judging by this wonderful articulate insightful truthful speech
I call racists racist when they say racist things.
Why should I call homophobes what they are when they say homophobic things?
As the old saying goes, Paddy lad, it’s not slander if it’s true.
So you’re not allowed to call people homophobes but you Paddy are allowed to call people “emotionally scarred”?
Play the ball not the man Paddy.
@Paddy
“It was a very honest opinion, from a very emotionally scarred human. I of course don’t agree with his conclusions, born out of the emotional insecurities he lives from day to day. But he does not have the right, even from the depth of his own conflicts, to tar others with the homophobia label. If he doesn’t grasp this, then he should not be allowed to peddle his distorted views on national tv.”
Spoken by a true champion of rights ONLY for those that you appear to deem acceptable in your narrow view.
You say Rory O’Neill/Panti Bliss is “emotionally scarred”. You cannot possibly know this purely from watching a video.
Besides, I didn’t see an emotionally scarred person. I saw a brave, true, strong person who is sick to death of fighting to have the same rights you enjoy. And those rights include the freedom to walk down a street without having hate and abuse hurled at you.
And Paddy, we all bear some sort of “emotional scars” as we go through life. None of us are protected from upset, emotional or otherwise.
People with opinions like yours appear happy to label other people but stamp your feet and throw a tantrum when you yourself are labeled.
Believing you have the moral high-ground does not protect you from blatant hypocrisy.
Paddy,
Do you accept that it is (when people behave in a homophobic manner) acceptable to label their behaviour or views as homophobic?
If the answer to this is yes, what behaviour do you believe rises to the level of homophobia?
Paddy, neither you not anyone else, can label Rory and by extension every other gay person who feels this way as “emotionally scarred”. He comes across as angry and fed up at the way gay people are treated but can you blame him! Sadly you lack the self awareness to realise that its your comments and those of the organisation you represent, along with others, that contribute to this feeling of oppression. And its not just public figures like Rory you impact, its the gay teenager trying to come to terms with his or her sexuality. Think before you speak.
My comment was based on the content of his video, his personal experience, and the on the surface emotion with which he delivered it.
His experience at the traffic lights, with the homophobes, does not however give him the right to label all argument against the redefinition of marriage as homophobia based.
I know the “emotionally scarred” label is a little severe, but my response to the video was, where are this guys friends. Who loves him enough to support him. Allowing a vulnerable person to make a public statement like this, is tantamount to neglect. But thats just my view, I wish Rory well.
Ah the old “redefinition of marriage”
Let me ask you this Paddy, if it is indeed the case that marriage is purely between a man and a woman (which it isn’t) why shouldn’t it be redefined in order to allow us to all be equal?
@paddy, why is it that the majority of holy Mary’s like you haven’t a tad of empathy or warmth (in my opinion). It’s people like you that put down gay people and try to make them feel inferior, and once successfull, then call them emotionally scarred. Once challenged, you go claiming to be the victims.
I’m sure he has a lot of support Paddy, that doesn’t make much of a difference when you are out on your own and some idiot decides to give you abuse. And what makes you think he is vulnerable? He doesn’t come across as vulnerable to me, he sounds angry but a lot of us are angry about the things he is describing.
Sorry Paddy, but I’m sure Rory’s comments about homophobia against certain individuals were from comments made by those individuals.
You have no right to call him “emotionally scarred” if you believe he was wrong to call people homophobes.
Allowing a vulnerable person like this is tantamount to neglect you say? Then by extension should I take the censorship undertaken by john waters, breda o’brien and the iona idiots as a act born out of love? Hardly. The fact is people like them would quite happily see gay people swept back under the carpets and out of the public eye where they decently belong.
@ Seán Gallagher
Good question Sean. I think the persons shouting at Rory as they drove by qualify. The school bullies, or indeed the night time thugs waiting outside the night club. These are the well qualified individuals. I occasionally see comments on here expressing views that may well qualify. But the three labelled individuals at the base of this discussion, not at all.
@Paddy: “I wish Rory well.” Never before was a sentiment so transparent in it’s insincerity.
Hi Paddy, if you watched the video why are you allowed to get to say who’s a homophobe and Rory isn’t?
Have you actually watched the video?
@Paddy Scully
What planet are you living on?
I’m gay, and I can tell you that we live in an extremely homophobic society, not just in Ireland, but the world in general. As Rory said, everyone is homophobic to some degree, even homosexuals! It’s called internalized homophobia. Other marginalized groups also internalize prejudice against them too- internalized racism and shame amongst Black people and Irish travelers etc, has been well documented. You should do some ‘googling’ – you might learn a thing or too- no excuse for idiocy and ignorance in the internet age Paddy.
If you have no experience of this oppression, then perhaps you don’t understand it. However, just if you don’t understand it then perhaps you should educate yourself about it before making ill-informed and ignorant remarks, because what is coming across in your comments is the height of ignorance and you’re making a fool of yourself.
Rory called a spade a spade…
Nearly everyone agrees with that consensus now…
@Paddy Scully,
Did you ever stop and think that perhaps you are homophobic yourself?
You seem to have a very derogatory view of gay people- do you think we are all ‘emotionally scarred’? and if so- do you think this could be perhaps because we grow up surrounded by homophobic attitudes like yours? Or are we just born dysfunctional and disordered, intrinsically damaged because of our gay-ness?…
I’d be interested in your views.
I won’t expect them to be very insightful though…
So Paddy, what word would you use to call people who oppose equality?
Jaysis Paddy, what planet are you from? Very shallow dim view of humanity there, off with you back to your loving Iona pals.
Paddy,
That’s part one you’ve answered. Could you comment on part 2 of my question?
The reason I’m asking is that what we’re talking about in terms of intolerance is degrees. There is a level for you that rises to homophobia, as a straight man you may be willing to accept more actions as being “just a bit off”, where a gay man or woman, may being on the receiving end of that behaviour interpret it differently.
This is akin to someone being charged with sexual assault and saying “Nah, it wasn’t assault, sure I only grabbed her ass, it’s not like I raped her” and being told “Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up.”
The definition of the act can not come from the perpetrator. I grant you, nor should it come from the victim necessarily, but as you saw on Saturday and here, a dictionary definition exists for what constitutes homophobia as well as guidelines for how to interpret it.
Re the ECHR:
The Court has, however, repeatedly held that discrimination based on sexual orientation is as serious as discrimination based on “race, origin or colour” or sex. The Court has also found incompatible with the Convention laws concerning same-sex conduct, the age of consent, military service, adoption, child custody and inheritance that discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.
Therefore, while not a definition, it is a pretty handy litmus test to look at a situation and apply characteristics of gender or race to it… If you find it to be racist or sexist… Chances are there is a good case it’s homophobic.
wait what happened, my comments got cut off… :( there was more than that…
@ John Everyman
John, it’s between a man and a woman for me, and it’s between a man and a woman for you; that’s equality.
Paddy this discussion is on the issue of homophobia alone. Don’t even dare try and derail the issue with your judgements on how some gay people choose to live.
Can you please define these factors “endemic to the lifestyle associated with living the gay life?”
You’ve mentioned health risks which is pretty much a misnomer, but what’s the etc.?
“John, it’s between a man and a woman for me, and it’s between a man and a woman for you; that’s equality.”
I’m not gay Paddy lad; my partner is a woman. Suprising as this may be to you, not only LGBT support equality.
And it is not equality when men can only marry women or vice versa. I can marry the conseting adult I love. My gay friends cannot.
That is NOT equality, it is inequality and no amount of your tired, outdated morality or willful ignorance of the world around you will disguise that fact.
Grow up lad,
@Paddy
@paddy, can you please explain what are the health risks involved in lesbian sex and can you please provide statistics showing that lesbians have a higher rate of stds than heterosexuals. I await your reply.
@ Frank Doyle
Good post Frank. Yes he did call everyone there homophobic; listen to the audience and you’ll hear a few giggles at this construct. So if everyone is homophobic, it’s ok to label some individuals homophobic; I think not.
I agree there is an underbelly of homophobia in our society, but this is mostly in the thugs, and certainly not in the named individuals. You are about the fifth to call me ignorant, must be a good day.
@Paddy – your views are *oppressive* and that is something you need to know! GO TEAM PANTI, love you x
“I agree there is an underbelly of homophobia in our society, but this is mostly in the thugs, and certainly not in the named individuals. ”
Yes most certainly in those individuals.
Why is it limited to thugs?
Do you need to be a thug to be a racist or a sexist?
Paddy you actually sicken me with your deep lack of respect and love for a fellow human being and your superior attitude.
Rory was making a heartfelt statement and giving a performance at the same time – he is a performer and knows that to get across what he wants he has to use his ability to perform and project – like the best orators. That does not mean he is only showing surface emotions. His level of honesty shows his strength – we all have conflicting and difficult emotions (unless we are self-deluded) and he is not frightened to share them. He seems emotionally quite well and strong to me. He is neither emotionally scarred or vulnerable and quite entitled to get up and make a poised but empassioned speech about how the incredible meanness of spirit of other citizens in this country can make life so challenging.
It is of course a matter of opinion whether somebody who seeks to deny rights to gay people can be called a homophobe, and he is entitled to that opinion. It would seem that a majority of the Irish citizenry are in his camp on this one and not in your camp. Honestly Paddy, perhaps it is your age, but you need to realise that the vast majority of public opinion is NOT with you on this issue.
When you talk so unkindly about his “being allowed” to “peddle” his views on national television, you fail to understand that the nation is far more in tune with his views than those of yourself and the extremist Iona Institute. RTE is a very conservative and parochial broadcaster and this is reflected in their craven response to the allegations of slander on their show. Imagine if somebody on a UK show said something about Irish people and an Irish person replied that they thought that was racist, and then the person asked the station to pay them massive compensation! Those people from the Iona are the extremists trying to bend society to their will and they get far too much air time.
Please try to understand that you cannot control other people’s lives – those days are over in Ireland – stick to your own life.
@ Frank Doyle
I prefer not to enter the hornets nest you set out for me, but.
My personal view is I’m not homophobic, I’m privileged to have both gay friends and acquaintances, with whom I’ve debated these issues, nearly always without acrimony.
I don’t have a derogatory view of gay persons, indeed theose I know are very creative, and party better than most. But as I said earlier, been gay is not good from the point of view of life expectancy.
Whether same sex attraction is nature or nurture or both, the scientific jury are still out on that one.
Let it be known that I mistakenly gave a green thumb to Paddy’s remarks to Maggie Elizabeth – oh the agony!!!
@Paddy Scully
Rory was making the point that society itself is homophobic but that he is grateful that most people only end up a bit homophobic as opposed to vehemently homophobic like you and your right -wing head -banger- religious mates at the Iona institute.
The names individuals (as you put it) form part of an organization famed for its anti-gay marriage stance. The Iona institute promotes the notion of inequality for gay people- this is inherently homophobic and to be honest I think the fact that these people have access to mainstream newspaper opinion columns in order to express their bile makes it worse than physical gay bashing on the street. Their brand of homophobia is insidious.
I might be the fifth individual today to call you Ignorant, Paddy, but I’m sure I won’t be the last. If people regularly call you ignorant then perhaps maybe you are ignorant? Ever think of that?.. DOH!..
“I don’t have a derogatory view of gay persons”
Ah, I see. It’s just a case that you don’t think they should be allowed to be equal.
“I love ye lads, but don’t you dare try to marry someone you love!”
@Paddy Scully
What hornets nest?
Your personal view about whether you are homophobic or not is exactly the crux of this debate. I’m a gay man, and I think your views are homophobic and I am more qualified than you to judge what is homophobic or not because the homophobia affects me not you!
I can’t imagine you have gay friends, if you do- I hope they don’t see your comments here because I’d be pretty sure they would disown you if they did.
It doesn’t matter whether same sex attraction is nature, nurture or both- it is part of the spectrum of humanity, and has always been therefore it should be treated with equal respect.
I don’t know where you are going with bringing gay life expectancy into it. And to be honest, gay life expectancy in places like Iran, Russia, Saudi, Uganda etc is always under threat because those countries take their homophobia to the level of state sanctioned murder.
Your homophobia might not be that extreme- but it’s still on the spectrum of homophobic attitudes and if even one gay teen reads your views and feels bad about themselves for a few mins, or a few hours then I think it’s deplorable. Homophobic attitudes damage gay people- but considering your of the opinion that gay people are intrinsically inferior then perhaps you view their pain as less than yours too?…
Two reasons to vote yes in the upcoming referendum: to secure equality and to annoy the sanctimonious religious right, like Paddy.
It’s funny Paddy how it doesn’t FEEL as though you really do respect gay people. I wonder why everybody thinks that from your comments??? Your remind me of the “Some of my best friends are black but look they are just by nature suited to being bosses” type of person… or any other such bullsh!t that basically says I will tolerate you so long as your place in society fits with MY views of how things should be…
We all have our own preferences about lifestyle choices but it does not give us a right to dictate to the rest of society. Some people may feel your own lifestyle choices are objectionable but I hope they would not try to stop you from having equal rights because of it.
I
sorry, I mean to say… they are just by nature NOT suited to being bosses…
Oh Paddy, I haven’t bothered responding to your unique views in quite some time, and I’m not going to start again, but I recommend you dig up Paddy, you’re just getting deeper in the hole you’ve made for yourself. It takes an especially hardened heart to hold such views, which you are entitled to.
Paddy Scully strikes me as one of these people who starts a conversation with…
‘I’m not a racist … but… ‘
Or
‘I’m not a homophobe…. but….’
Well, Paddy, here’s the thing: no one ever thinks they’re prejudiced, even when they hold deeply prejudiced views – which is why “I’m not racist, but…” is such a cliche. If a lot of people are pointing out to you that your views result in prejudice and inequality, it’s time to re-examine.
Don’t make him out to be so pathetic! His friends must be proud of him for being so brave, you utter moron
@ Miss Filed
Sorry I sicken you, it’s not intentional. I hope you’re correct about Rory. I hope I’m not denying anyone a right, but of course marriage to this point in history was between a man and a woman, if society chooses to redefine marriage then something new is created, and a right will then exist to whatever marriage will become. It won’t of course be the state sponsored institution for the creation and bringing up of children.
What the nation’s views are, has yet to be determined.
Paddy both Breda O’Brien and David Quinn were both opposed to Civil Partnerships too. Not just marriage.
Society constantly redefines marriage. It used to be between a man and several women, then it was a property arrangement where fathers sold their daughters to men (and the daughters lost any legal identity) – it’s only been recently that marriage has been defined as an institution of two equal partners for lifelong love.
I, personally, am glad marriage has changed. I wouldn’t want a first century or an eighteenth century marriage and it’d be rather off if you did.
What? You think people who make a living championing the cause against equal rights for gay and lesbian couples and the “institute” that they represent or patronize that malignantly manipulates a scientific study in order to promote their bias isn’t homophobic? What planet are you living on?
@Dave Gorma “So Paddy, what word would you use to call people who oppose equality?”
It’s two words in Ireland. “Catholic Men.”. No equality for women, no equality for gay people because a book written and rewritten by people worshipping a made up entity said so.
Quacky, he says those that consider a gay person to be less than their heterosexual counterparts are homophobic. He did not say you are homophobic because I say so. Try add.something to the debate rather than spouting nonsense
It appears I’m late to the party…
But my question Paddy is simple – When so many people consistently disagree with your opinion, how can you be so sure you are right?
Wow, Paddy, when you patronise, you really go for broke. “Emotionally scarred”… “Emotional insecurities”… “Vulnerable”…. All delivered with the quivering lip of fake concern. It hasn’t escaped me that you are associated with the Iona lobby group, so I’m sure you’ll understand why I suspect that you have an agenda in trying to paint Rory O’Neill as some sort of emotional wreck whose views are rendered invalid because he spoke so viscerally about his experiences.
I don’t know Rory personally but my son introduced me to his writings and his performances and I have to say that, where you see damaged goods, I see an honest, articulate and compassionate man. Of course, it would suit the Iona lobby group to paint him as some sort of wreck but, with their credibility in shreds, we all know that won’t happen.
Both on the contentious TV interview and in this brilliant speech Rory has perfectly articulated what homophobia is. That your bedfellows arbitrarily isolate the definition at “violent, knuckle-dragging thugs” speaks volumes about their integrity and self-awareness. That you come on now and attempt to smear Rory just adds an additional craven layer of insult.
Wow Paddy you’re way behind the times.
Is climate change a hoax too along with the moon landings ?
Where do you get your science lessons from ?
Read the definition of homopbobia from the EU. You are homophobic.
As for those opposed to SSM they’re homophobic too because they have no valid or justified rational reason to deny those equal rights beyond religion.
Almost everybody opposed to it is a theist. You won’t find too many atheists opposed to it.
When your sky God makes an appearance and states his case then we’ll listen to ye.
If you don’t like gay marriage then don’t get gay married, simple really.
Till then case closed.
@Paddy Scully,
What do you think will happen if gay marriage is passed and the Irish public vote in favor of it? What is it that threatens you so much about two people of the same sex getting married? Your fear of change is irrational.
You say, marriage up to this point in history has been between a man and a woman. But we could also argue that women were oppressed up until the women’s rights movements and women’s suffrage of the 20th century, therefore do you think that just because women didn’t have equal rights for 2000 or so years, does that mean we should deny them to them? It was , after all, traditional to treat women as inferior to men. But we know now that that is wrong.
The Irish were subjugated under British rule, as were many colonized peoples of different ethnicities , for centuries, we don’t tolerate that anymore.
The main persecutor of gay people and the main propagator of gay oppression has been religion, both Islam and Christianity the worst it seems. The Roman Catholic church institutionalized homophobia for various reasons, it also aided in the oppression of Women. Before Roman Catholicism dominated Europe, the Greeks and the Romans had very tolerant attitudes towards bisexuality, and gay sexuality…
Your argument that just because it has been that way traditionally doesn’t hold water in the modern world.
Civilizations evolve, attitudes change as more insight and knowledge is gained.
You say that marriage is a state-sponsored institution for the creation and bringing up of children.
This is an idea created at the dawn of the new state of Ireland, when we were primarily uneducated and poor, and also completely dominated by Catholicism. Most of my generation do not hold the church up as a beacon of morality and wisdom , in fact for many, we see it as quite the opposite of that.
The idea of marriage as primarily between a man and a woman for the purpose of child rearing is archaic now and doesn’t reflect the reality of lone parents, children of divorce and separation, and children of gay parents, gay adoption\fostering etc and of course the right of equality for every citizen.
This constitution was written at a time when the Irish Catholic church had a massive influence in its design, people followed the Catholic faith blindly- mostly out of ignorance.
We live in an incredibly diverse Ireland now, and gay marriage is just one aspect of that diversity
The state needs to change in order to accommodate aspirations of equality for all… sorry if that rains on your parade… but it’s called progress…
@ Pedro
As you can imagine Pedro, there are many others in Ireland who would agree with me, but it takes a particular resolve, to dare venture an opposing opinion here. This is best demonstrated by the claims of many here that my side of the discussion are trying to shut up the opposition; when the reality is that we are the ones been labelled and put in a discrimination box. If that doesn’t shut us up, what will.
I’m confident in my position because truth is not relative, its not a vote, it’s a given from nature which wishes humanity to thrive. I believe in motherhood, fatherhood, husband and wife. I believe society should uphold these truths, as the best option for children. I believe the rights of children supersedes the desires of adults.
Oh Paddy..
Marriage has already been redefined.
Women are no longer chattel.
Both parties must be over 18.
You can now get divorced.
Marriage evolves.
Your appeal to tradition is still a logical fallacy. I pointed this out to you and you keep running with it – which just proves how homophobic you actually are. You ignore reason, fact and logic and insist upon spouting your wilfully ignorant views.
You’re a homophobe Paddy. Perhaps you should do something about that?
@Chris..
People like Paddy are terrified to let go of prejudices because it’s those prejudices disguised as beliefs which keep them imagining that they are the moral authority – superior and in control…
If the Catholics didn’t hate the gays it would be something or someone else, Women, children, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Heathens, Native peoples…. The list is endless… But it all boils down to the same thing.. bigotry and intolerance…
Sad really.. .
@Paddy,
The iron is .. you should be embarrassed expressing your views, everyone can see that they are homophobic.
Your claim about the rights of children superseding adult opinion is meaningless because children cannot legislate for their own rights. Your seem to worry about the rights of children and you see gay marriage as a threat to children’s rights, but you don’t seem to give a damn about the children of gay parents (of which I know many personally), you don’t care about their rights, nor do you care about the rights of gay children; gay children, teens and young people who come across attitudes like yours which leads them to depression, suicidal thoughts, feelings of inferiority etc.
You should be ashamed of yourself… Your attitude actively damages children …
Paddy can’t get passed his concrete mindset of Man+Woman. Whether its gullibility, where he has been told this as a child and can’t see beyond it or whether it’s his refusal to see beyond it because he desires to live in a Black and white world, who knows.
The truth is that the world is not all black and white, but Paddy, it’s not all grey either. It’s every colour of the rainbow.
It’s ok Paddy, you’re not alone, we can help you. We can show you the reality, the wonderful diversity and help you tolerate and maybe even learn to love lifes wonderful spectrum of people.
Erm, I’m a Catholic and I don’t hate any of the above mentioned. Bigot
Paddy you are so wrong on Panti and his friends. He did not stand up there as an emotionally scarred individual without the support of friends. He stood on that stage as an emotionally charged and passionate man relaying his experiences of oppression. And his friends cheered him on, and I cheered him on, and the Lgbt community of our nation cheered him on, and the families of lgbt individuals cheered him on, and our straight allies cheered him on, and now our politicians are cheering him on and so is the international community.
You couldnt be more wrong on that point. How does it feel to be standing on the wrong side of a truly great moment on societal oratory?
Actually Paddy, based on the available scientific research, the current conclusion states that children raised by same-sex parents are no different than children raised by mixed-sex parents (e.g., http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting.aspx)
Also, if you’re referring to marriage as inspired by nature i.e., man+woman=child, I’m afraid you’re also wrong there. There’s numerous evolutionary and societal benefits posited regarding homosexuality. Additionally, it has been documented in over 15,000 animal species. If it wasn’t advantageous to society, it would no longer exist.
@ Frank Doyle
If marriage is redefined here, there are indeed many societal effects, but these will be considered when the constitutional amendment is announced. It worth reading about some of the aftereffects in other jurisdictions.
Your association of SSM with all of the accepted traditional discriminations, does not in itself validate your cause. Do future children reasonably expect access to their mother and their father? I believe so. I’m afraid there was homophobia ever before religions. Indeed for me, my faith is a moderating influence in my opinions. But it’s convenient for you to see the gay community as been oppressed by some monolith based on a faith. I mean who would look closely at the issues when Jack is been chased by the giant.
@ Conor Buggy
Conor, I’ve grown to trust your integrity, so I’m glad to hear Rory has the support he needs.
As I said earlier, the cause of his dislike for pedestrian crossings, is understandable; but his labelling of others is not just, even on the basis of his experience.
We are discussing a very serious piece of social engineering, and these attempts at culling the discussion are unjust to say the least.
“But it’s convenient for you to see the gay community as been oppressed by some monolith based on a faith”
I don’t think gay people are oppressed by “some monolith based on a faith”; I think LGBT people are oppressed by bigots who deny them equality.
@Paddy
Can you please elaborate/link to the information you’ve alluded to on the effects in other jurisdictions? Genuinely curious, also if you’re elaborating, please do so from reputable sources.
Second point, the Iona institute are intrinsically linked to the church, they are the unacceptable face of catholicism on this topic.
The childcentric argument is also a total misnomer as separate legislation is being introduced for this. Can you please let me know, given that the state and others see fit to separate these two issues, why you insist on joining them (not to go into the “would you stop a single straight man/woman adopting thing again)?
Finally, how do you respond to suggestions that your intolerance and staunchly anti equality views could in fact cause harm to the young (LGBT in some cases) people about whom you’re so concerned? Or is it only straight kids that you worry about?
Paddy, genuine question. Are you scared of change? Is it something that makes you uncomfortable?
Marriage has already been redefined Paddy. Several times. So the redefining marriage argument is null and void.
All available evidence shows no difference in the outcome for children raised by same sex or mixed sex couples – you choose to ignore this, just as you choose to ignore that by saying this – you are implying that somehow gay people are not capable of being parents, that they’re somehow bad for children – THAT is very clear homophobia.
You speak of people trying to label you to shut down debate – yet it’s people like you who took legal action and actually had someone censored (guess you and your buddies in Iona aren’t familiar with the gospel of Matthew and Jesus’ stance on hypocrites then).
Of course – you’ll ignore my comment. Just like you always do, you’ll throw out some irrelevant reason for why you cannot answer because TRUTH be told, you don’t have an argument..
I mean, look around Paddy – it’s almost as though people don’t respect your homophobic views..
@ Paddy: “If marriage is redefined here, there are indeed many societal effects, but these will be considered when the constitutional amendment is announced.”
Which article of the constitution defines marriage as between a man and a woman, and would therefore need amending?
@Paddy Scully
@ What are the societal affects Paddy? Give me credible, peer-reviewed sociological research!
I’m glad you admit that there are traditional discriminations, your church has aided in a lot of them over the years. And yes it does validate my cause, because it highlights the bigotry and intolerance which emanates from the most conservative forms of Catholic beliefs.
Children of the future should expect love, encouragement and support, whether adopted, or the natural offspring- of homosexuals or heterosexuals. Heterosexual parents don’t automatically possess good parenting skills just because they are heterosexual or form part of a heterosexual union through marriage. My own parents were married heterosexuals, that didn’t stop my father from having a drink problem, and cheating on my mother, nor did it stop him eventually leaving her and they subsequently divorced. I would have much rather two parents of the same sex if they had have provided me with love, encouragement and support as opposed to chaos, abandonment and neglect, which is what I experienced from my heterosexual upbringing.
It is the quality of the the individual and their ability to provide safety, support and love for a child that matters- not the sexuality.
You say there was homophobia before religions, there might have been some but the Catholic church instilled it and institutionalized it, and ironically I have met a few gay priests, who think nothing of having gay sex anytime they please… The hypocrisy of the church and those who blindly follow its dogma is astounding.. .
@Dermot
I didn’t say you did .. I was merely drawing attention to the range of prejudices which the Catholic church has indulged in over the years…
Paddy! Tell God I said hello!
Very well deserved!
Are those 100,000 the people he called racist on the Sat night show? Or these “homophobes” he goes on about?
@duck, he was Calling himself a racist and a homophobe and said that we can all be racist n homophobic at times and it ok, we just have to recognise it and do something about it…..listen to the clips!
I’m neither racist nor homophbic. Qualifying his speech with ” we’re all a bit racist” is something a sociopath might say.
I’m a duck. Quack quack.
Kind of a big deal over nothing really. . . .victimization goes on across the board. I don’t see why this guy/girl should be getting anymore attention than anyone else.
So, just because it goes on across the board you think it’s ok?
If racism/sexism went on across the board (I’m not saying they aren’t) you would think that was ok too?
Don’t feed the Troll (Alan Lars)..
Yeah Chris,
Wouldn’t waste time on this one… Concentrate on the people who have something to actually say on the matter.
@allan, should we just all put up with racism and homophobia? Do you realise that Uganda is trying to introduce the death penalty for homosexuals. Should people really be killed for being attracted to the same sex? Should we ignore their plight?
That place is mad. A guy got 10 years for shagging a goat and they had the goat there in the courtroom so that he could “face his accuser”!
First Graham Norton, now Stephen Fry is now on #TeamPanti… From Twitter:
@stephenfry
Panti’s Noble Call at the Abbey Theatre Do watch: esp the way she exposes the evil that makes homophobe a hate word [link to video]
Maybe it’s the way he constantly checks himself at pedestrian crossings is what’s giving him away.
An Amazing speech, RTE and Iona really did mess up with this one. Here i was thinking that Ireland was starting to see sense and come into the 21st century when it comes to gay rights, but when i hear that RTE did this i was so shocked and appalled also RTE taking the Gay marriage part from the coca cola ad whats going on are RTE homophobic “are they going to get a huge pay out now i said that” . On a good note im happy to see the reaction this has gotten from all over the world not just by the Gay community but also the Straight community. Well Done Rory i only hope RTE come on to you with an Apology as this was so unfair.
174,000 HITS And Counting..
Unbelievable..
Amazing work Rory :)
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