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Updated 4.55pm
THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS Committee has decided it won’t be giving a transcript of last week’s meeting on the penalty points issue to the garda whistleblower who gave testimony.
A consensus decision not to pursue further legal advice on the matter was reached only after Independent TD Shane Ross stressed several times that he dissented “absolutely” from his colleagues’ take on how to proceed.
This evening however, Ross and Sinn Fein’s Mary Lou McDonald have formally written to the PAC clerk, seeking to have the matter back on the agenda for next week’s meeting. This is despite the majority of committee members being likely to take the same view as they did today if the matter is forced to an unprecedented vote.
Maurice McCabe — a serving garda sergeant — gave nearly three hours of evidence to the PAC last week, with members saying afterwards that he gave a comprehensive and credible account of his claims in relation to alleged malpractice in the penalty points system.
The panel of TDs has since sought legal advice on whether a copy of the transcript of his testimony can be released to McCabe, following a request from the garda’s solicitors.
But the PAC clerk, Ted McEnery, said today that on the advice he’d received, doing so could represent “a fundamental change” in procedure and that it might “have future implications not only for the PAC but [for other people] giving evidence to committees in private session”.
The clerk said that the matter would have to referred to the Oireachtas Committee on Procedure and Privileges should the TDs wish to accede to McCabe’s request.
Kieran O’Donnell TD [Image: Oireachtas.ie]
The issue prompted a lengthly debate among PAC members, with the majority of the opinion that they should not pursue the matter further, in light of the advice to date.
Fine Gael TD Kieran O’Donnell, who chaired today’s meeting, told the panel that they were not legally allowed to release a redacted transcript — although several members had made the point that if it was eventually released to the whistleblower, it would have to be redacted.
Ross, whose public comments have led to some tension in the PAC in recent weeks, maintained there was no reason not to provide the transcript, as they would not be releasing it to the public.
“We’re releasing it to him and simply to him to do what he likes with it.”
However, Fine Gael’s John Deasy said that on the basis of the advice they’d heard from the clerk, taking the matter further would be “a step too far” and warned that the committee was at risk of crossing over “into the political paranormal”.
“The reality is there wasn’t a great deal of substance that came from that meeting,” Deasy said.
“Mr McCarthy, the Comptroller and Auditor General, debunked a lot of what was in it [Garda McCabe's testimony] in terms of the number of penalty points written off,” he said.
“Whereas the theory from Sergeant McCabe was that tens of thousands were written off, I think the CAG definitively made the case that we’re really talking about hundreds.”
Gerald Nash of Labour warned that if were given to McCabe, the committee “will no longer have control” over the transcript. Others, including Fine Gael’s Eoghan Murphy, said it was clear the issue shouldn’t be taken any further.
John Deasy & Simon Harris [Oireachtas.ie]
Ross continued to insist the PAC should refer the matter to the CPP for further advice, in the midst of a growing consensus from his colleagues.
The Dublin South TD’s stance led to a personal attack from Deasy, who observed that “there is a danger we are taking Deputy Ross too seriously”.
He accused Ross of being more interested in “getting on the 6 o’clock news” than he was in pursuing the truth.
“If there was anything Earth-shattering that came from that meeting, it would already have been reported,” Deasy said.
“This is not about the content of that meeting. It’s more about individuals, and their insatiable thirst for publicity”.
Shane Ross TD [Oireachtas.ie]
Ross continued to insist that “the reason we held this in private was in case irresponsible allegations were made”.
“No such allegations were made. “
Murphy insisted that that by not releasing the transcript the committee was, in fact, protecting Sergeant McCabe and said that “people who were at the meeting will know what I mean”.
O’Donnell asked several times if the members would agree as a body that the matter should not “at this time” be referred to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Ross objected several times, arguing that it it should, before eventually accepting the consensus decision.
However this evening, the independent deputy and McDonald have formally written to McEnery this evening [read their letter here] to express their “deep dissatisfaction” with the PAC decision today.
They state that the committee’s decision “runs contrary to what was agreed and this development causes us deep disquiet”.
Ross and McDonald, who was not present at today’s meeting do to Sinn Féin party commitments, have asked that the matter be placed back on the PAC’s agenda for its regular Thursday morning meeting next week.
Speaking to TheJournal.ie this evening, one committee member dismissed the letter.
They agreed that even if the matter was brought to a vote, Ross and McDonald would lose as the majority of PAC members believe the transcript should not be released to the whistleblower.
The PAC rarely votes on anything, normally reaching a consensus decision. The only previous vote in the lifetime of the current membership was when a ballot was held on electing Ross as chair.
- additional reporting Hugh O’Connell
First published 2.44pm
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For perspective. Corporation tax was 24.6 billion for all of 2022, 17.5 billion in 2021, 12.3 billion in 2019 and 11.4 billion in 2018 (pre COVID examples)….. the govt is coining it in despite what the headline makes it out!!!!!….. but they’re great because they’re giving the average worker back 2€ a week by reducing the 4.5% USC band to 4%…… thanks lads. Keep the gravy train going!
@another one? what’s going on is the semi state sec: how are the Govt “coining it”? They are on salaries not commission! Plus budget will deliver far far more than €2 a week to those who get up early to work. With all budgets the totality of measures have to be taken in account.
@Peter Barnwallace: Coining it in because they are generating revenue! Revenue to waste all over the shop. They got over double the corporation tax of 2018 last year, which was a bumper take back in 2018. Then there is massive income tax and vat takes as well…… cost of living crisis going on and that 2€ USC reduction a week, or 110€ a year is for someone who is on the “average wage” of 45k. That’s a joke of a reduction. I assume you consider someone on a 45k salary as someone who gets up early to work. Hopefully the tax bands adjustments will deliver more!!!!
@another one? what’s going on is the semi state sec: but you know that The Journal only reports on the bad news. You wouldn’t see it here if there was a rise in tax income in September
Gee whizz, I wonder why they are down. Politicians taking it upon themselves to recklessly donate billions to lost causes is likely one of the reasons. The other is giving recent arrivals everything for free with no end in sight. The sooner these goons are demolished at the next election the better. Untold damage has been done to our fair isle.
Eh…. The opposition is more pro recent arrivals than the government we have???
@P.J. Nolan: shush don’t tell him that
@P.J. Nolan: I’m enjoying the fact the lads who are very anti immigration are also very pro SF. They are going to get a serious land if SF do get into power. I cannot wait for the comments!
@: Sinn Fein are one of the most pro immigration parties around lol.
@: how the fluck can either of those “reasons” have an impact on the amount corporation tax receipts? I’ve seen immigration policy being incorrectly blamed for a lot in this country, but never this.
@SYaxJ2Ts: People will make up anything to suit their own views
It won’t stop them from getting their pay raises, though.
@D F:
Your right, it won’t stop them.
Politicians get their pay rises at the same time and the same percentage increase as every one else in the public sector.
The two have been linked for over a decade.
@P.J. Nolan: they shouldn’t be linked though
This is nothing to do with this article so I am taking this opportunity to let off steam. Heard on the radio that social welfare payments are going up 12 euro. I work 12 hour shifts in a ED health service and get 15PH. Not complaining about working or my job as I love it, however I work my socks off to get paid. Cost of living is self made because of back handers and greed. Some people with no fault of there own can’t work and its great that they benefit, however there are those who can but will not work preferring to work for cash into the hand, get free housing, medical card, handouts from charities while going on holidays and driving very nice cars. Does not make sense….Stating the obvious, so here it is…MAJOR change is needed for this country.
@: you forgot to mention get free housing in city center and selling drug and bike
@: sure go on the dole yourself and you can post on here about all the holidays and new cars you can afford off 200 quid a week. I can guarantee you if someone’s on the dole having multiple holidays and new cars they are working either under the table or engaged in commerce that the state doesn’t allow
Ukrainian refugees still getting an extra 1b euros from this budget on top of 5.4b last year,we’re a great country for foreigners
@Billy Power: Irish can emigrate to US or Australia for a future only thing is they don’t hand out houses and social welfare you’ll have to work or leave and no money on arrival you’ve to have 5000 in you’re account other way round here
Inflation is making the country richer by making the people poorer. We pay those profits.
They’re all for low wages subsidising low costs, when companies should have lower profits to subside low costs.
And if barristers are striking for better wages well good luck to the ordinary workers!
@9QRixo8H: the tds and civil servants despite being linked to the public service for pay risesfor over a decade had the fempi legislation unwound faster than the others and the barristers are just looking for theirs to be restored how many years later
Right, interesting timing – but a surplus is still a surplus
‘Income tax receipts were up 8.2% annually to €23.1 billion’
That is up 1.89 Billion Euro.
They propose to reduce tax rates by if I am right by about 1 billion.
This proves, that no matter what they say, the income taxpayer is always getting screwed for more.
@Donal Ronan: Jesus. That’s some next level shite I have just seen. Need to have a sit down after reading that. People on here love to moan. If they announced “we’re giving a million quid to everybody” you’d be on here moaning “who’s paying for that”.
@Donal Ronan: for the record income tax levels rise when employment rises or when the wage levels of those in employment rise. It isn’t that a million people decided to off their own backs to pay 1.8bn more and the government were like sound lads here s a billion back. Like income tax receipts rising is a good thing, it shows the strength of the employment market and here you are having a moan. Jesus Christ give me f.cking strength.
@: how do you work out they are taxing us more and more you complete moron? They are raising tax credits, raising higher rate bands and expanding tax bases. Of course you’d actually have to understand finance to get we are being taxed less. In my opinion it should still be a lot less. But they certainly are not taxing us more you utter imbecile. Because people make higher wages and more people are working than ever before we are taking a higher tax take, but they are not “taxing us more”. Honestly it’s like foundation maths around here.
@: and for the record iv never voted ff or ff in my life. Funny how you think my ability to add 2 + 2 makes me vote for FF and FG. I’m guessing you vote SF since you cannot add 2 + 2? I don’t vote for any of the 3 big parties as two are corrupt and the other have absolutely woeful representatives, too close to criminals, are incredibly populist and have an absolute moronic following (congrats you fall in that category).
@Journal Commenter: 23 Feb 2023 — There were an additional 68,600 people at work at the end of last year compared with the final quarter of 2021 as the economy continued its post …from the Irish Independent.
Now they must all have been on a salary of over €200,000 or slice the figures another way, most of the people that pay tax paid an extra €1000 each. Remember, a lot of people don’t pay tax, so it would be higher again. So no matter what you say the taxpayer is getting screwed for more and more.
An interesting thing happened some time back. Some Minister in his wisdom not, decided that they would stop breaking down the percentage of tax paid by different groups. Now we don’t get to see if the self employed or farmers etc. are paying their fair share.
@Donal Ronan: self employed are paying the exact same as everyone else only without any of the perks paye workers earn. Only difference is we have to pay usc and PRSI all in one go.
@Martin Mongan: Have you forgotten the statement by the late Brian Lenihan. One of the real gains behind the introduction of USC, was that it would catch everything. Enough said.
@Journal Commenter: in fairness they probably owe everyone a million each. :))
Another reason why Inheritance Bands will not be adjusted as promised by FF/FG/Greens.
Over reliance on FDI’s always means our tax take is at the mercy of outside forces sadly
@Tom Newell: corporations tax has always been, and will always be volatile. And it is always at the mercy of outside forces. Unless of course you are suggesting we as a country can decide what exact profit each of the companies that operate here make? Exactly…
corporations front loading future profits at the lower tax rate before the new OECD common tax rate comes into effect next year. wait until companies will have to pay the corporation tax at the point of sale as opposed to washing it through the books to ireland. then you will see the ar$e fall out of the receipts. you can thanks pascal for that in the years to come.
“the volatility in this tax head”.
What on earth is a tax head?
@Max: a tax type, such as VAT, Corp Tax, Income Tax etc. Finance speak – it’s like a cult
And that’s why you can’t have nice things, now feck OFF!
The old age pensioners are lying in wait for this crowd and they’ll get a big awakening if all they give is €12 a week, with the rate of inflation since the last budget hammering pensioners more than any other group.
@Gerry Ryan: probably why they also got other increases too
Ireland relies heavily of foreign direct investment (FDI), which means foreign companies setting up in Ireland and employing people who then get an income and pay income tax and VAT on their spending of that income and the company also pays VAT and corporate tax on its own expenditure and corporate tax on its profits. This all adds into the governments income to pay public’s sector workers and social welfare
Ireland needs FDI – ironically the political parties and their constituents who most need FDI to get their income are the ones who will scare them off.
Populist economics ends in misery and that appears where Ireland is headed.
The devil is in the detail. The elite have known for years that the leprechaun economic merry-go-round was winding down. Ireland has been spinning on a handful of US sugar daddies which explains why Micheal Martin and sidekick is running around the globe at their behest feathering a new nest for themselves when this lickars strategy is unveiled as pig manure. We thought the US companies were like bitcoin and free money but not even free money could give people a humble home nor house the homeless or even build a hospital for kids. Someone better come up with a new idea to sell. Fast.
Two con men if I ever seen em..
Sick of the sight of them .
Dip into the apple money
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