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Damien Kiberd RTÉ thinks it played safe on Pantigate - I beg to differ

RTÉ would do well to remember the story of Jurgen Klinsmann’s dive in the 1990 World Cup and the effect that had on schoolboy footballers for years to come.

RTE’s BIZARRE HANDLING of the Saturday Night Show/Iona Institute libel case has inflicted untold damage on the battle to create a more open society.

Regardless of the legal niceties contained in the advice given by libel lawyers to the station, the public is left with the impression that RTÉ will fold in the face of any action that threatens to impose substantial costs upon it. That belief alone, unchallenged at present by RTÉ, is an enormous threat to free speech.

Sitting on €180m a year in unearned income from TV licence fees plus another €160m in commercial revenues, the organisation’s claim that its actions will protect taxpayers’ money is risible. The reverse is almost certainly the case.

A vastly-resourced enterprise has capitulated without firing a shot in the face of a de facto class action launched by a small modestly-resourced lobby group.

By doing so it has invited similar actions in the future, perhaps by organisations much more powerful than Iona. Plaintiffs now know that they are pushing an open door.

Consider the following hypothetical case. Suppose Joe Duffy allows a speaker on his daily phone-in Liveline show to voice deeply critical comments concerning the Labour deputies who were returned to Dáil Eireann in 2011.  Suppose that the speaker draws disturbing, arguably defamatory conclusions from the failure of that party to honour some of its election promises. Suppose that thirty or more Labour deputies take a class action against the station.

I am not suggesting for a moment that Labour deputies would ever engage in this sort of legal action against a public service broadcaster. But such a case is a real possibility.

Would the station bosses fold in the face of such an action? Would they publish a grovelling apology and pay damages and costs to all thirty plaintiffs?  And, if they did, then where does that leave freedom of expression and the legal protection traditionally afforded under Anglo-Saxon law to the sincere articulation of honestly held opinions on matters of public interest?

“But fight you must”

RTÉ’s managing director of television Glen Killane is a former Head of Sport. He must be aware that there is a time in every man’s life when he must stand and fight. Sometimes that time comes when you are wounded and bleeding, let down by some of those around you, fighting with one hand tied behind your back. Sometimes it is when solicitors’ letters are pouring through your letterbox. But fight you must.

Killane got a hospital pass from The Saturday Night Show. Presenter Brendan O’Connor literally invited his guest Rory O’Neill to name names after he (O’Neill) made his claims about alleged homophobia in the debate on gay marriage.

Only a full hearing of the case could determine how O’Neill’s subsequent response might be interpreted by any right-thinking and reasonable viewer. What was the ordinary meaning of his observations? Was O’Neill making what purported to be a series of statements of fact about those whom he named? If so, the onus would be on RTÉ to prove the veracity of such statements.

The RTÉ lawyers would also have raised questions about how such a libel action might be fought. O’Neill is an intelligent and persuasive man but how might he acquit himself before a jury as the main witness for the defence? Would O’Neill’s professional persona as Miss Panti, performing his cabaret act in a Capel Street club, affect the weight which the jury attached to his evidence?

“Our unreformed libel laws”

The costs involved in resolving such litigation would clearly be substantial, as is always the case under our unreformed libel laws.

Lawyers advising RTÉ will have tried to estimate such costs in order to help Killane reach a decision. RTÉ, so far, has not published its legal advice.

RTÉ does say that that its counsel was of the view “that the legal position was far from clear”.

RTÉ further states that in general “RTÉ should not knowingly progress to defend an action when it is advised externally and internally that such a defence is unlikely to succeed before a jury”.

To an extent, one might sympathise with RTÉ.  Proving that Person A or Person B is a homophobe is not an easy matter. For a start, what exactly is a homophobe?

Clearly a group of skinheads sporting prison tattoos and standing outside a Moscow nightclub, waiting to bash up gay revellers as they leave, might fairly be described as homophobic.

“What is a homophobe?”

But what is one to make of a writer or campaigner who wants to limit the proper expression of his/her sexuality by a homosexual person, because the active expression of that sexuality with another consenting adult might, in the opinion of the writer or campaigner, affect the common good?

Is that person a homophobe? Perhaps not. But that person clearly wants the homosexual to suppress part of his/her sexuality indefinitely so that another person may reside in a society where the writer or campaigner feels safer or better protected.

What of a writer or campaigner who wants to deprive a homosexual of the legal rights normally accruing to married persons, again in order to protect their own interpretation of the ‘common good’?

Is that person a homophobe? Or is the import of what they are saying homophobic in effect? After all, they want to deprive a fellow citizen of a right afforded to others in order to promote a personal, idiosyncratic view of what constitutes a good society.

“The argument would have moved far from the narrow legal issues”

Clearly if RTÉ had chosen to stand its ground in this case the net argument would move far beyond the narrow legal issue of what the words uttered by O’Neill meant and what effect those words had on the good name and reputation of those whom he named. The argument would become political.

But why not? The Iona Institute was created for a political purpose. It wants to act as a moral arbiter of what is good and what is bad. It wants to tell other people how to think and how to behave.  It campaigns publicly so that others will place limits on your freedom in order to fashion a society in its (Iona’s) own image.

The RTÉ/Iona case would almost certainly have had to go before not just the High Court, but the Supreme Court and the European Courts as well. And so it should.

RTÉ had the resources to pursue this matter to a conclusion. The reason we give it €180m a year in free money is because it is charged with acting as a public service broadcaster. Part of its duty involves the promotion of robust debate on contentious issues. That debate cannot be abrogated because one or more of the willing participants in that debate purports to be emotionally and otherwise wounded by the inevitable verbal exchanges that must ensue.

“The Jurgen Klinsmann effect”

As former Head of Sport Killane will recall a certain Jurgen Klinsmann. A talented German footballer he liked nothing better than to roll on the pitch, holding his leg and looking for sympathy from the referee.

In the 1990 World Cup final the Argentine defender Pedro Monzon tried to make a spectacular tackle on Klinsmann. No contact was made but this did not prevent Klinsmann from launching into a graceful athletic dive adding in a spasmic jerk and a couple of forward rolls for good measure.

Klinsmann’s actions on that day became part of football legend: years later schoolboys across the world were still trying to emulate his technique. Monzon, however, got sent off.

Image Conor Horgan/Panti Bliss via Facebook

Damien Kiberd: Are whistleblowers really saints?>
Solicitor for John Waters disputes RTE version of Panti events>

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    Mute Andrew Giles
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 7:44 AM

    Average wage of 48K, and herein lies the out of touchness. I’m sure the retail, hospitality and most of the manufacturing sectors would love to be on this average

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    Mute Shaun Gallagher
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 7:51 AM

    @Andrew Giles: Would love a factcheck on this to see what percentage of people in Ireland are actually on the average wage

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    Mute Rafa Condron
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 7:57 AM

    @Shaun Gallagher: I’m in a highly skilled sector and paid well below this figure.

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 9:17 AM

    @Rafa Condron: strange if something is highly skilled it normally means a high wage due to it being hard to obtain the skills. It could be a highly skilled job that not many want I guess.

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    Mute Cullen Cullen
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 10:30 AM

    @Craic_a_tower: like playing Mario Kart for a living?

    24
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    Mute Séamus MacIonnrachtaigh
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 10:35 AM

    @Andrew Giles: If Bernard Arnault walked into a room with five other people, they’d all be $32,000,000,000 richer on average.

    The median wage in Ireland is €38,000, meaning that half of Irish people earn less than this. 25% earn less than €21,700.

    http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=104&loctype=1

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    Mute Andrew Giles
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 10:43 AM

    @Séamus MacIonnrachtaigh: so my original comment about out of touchness is correct in other words.

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    Mute thesaltyurchin
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:23 AM

    @Andrew Giles: Before tax too

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    Mute Rafa Condron
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:38 AM

    @Craic_a_tower: Highly skilled and educated – working in an industry with no barriers to entry, which lowers the sector’s wages due to the over-saturation of underskilled people taking jobs for lower wages. Also see regularly job advertisements for internships to large multinational companies, looking for someone to basically run their whole department, as an intern, the job actually specified it’s an internship but you must be fully qualified and be an expert in the industry – for no money. It’s soul destroying.

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    Mute Craic_a_tower
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 12:32 PM

    @Rafa Condron: highly skilled and educated in a field that has no barrier to entry suggests that neither are required. If people can do it it for less pay while in your opinion they are unskilled suggests also that it is not a high skilled job. You could have been a brilliant web designer but the field moved on so it requires a lot less skill. Could have been the best draughtsman in the world but CAD eliminated the skill required. I am have skills that are difficult to obtain along with experience where not a lot of people have that so get paid more than average while there is a shortage. That is how wages work. Worked for a long time in statistics and employee pay is tied to skills, training and difficulty replacing a person. If unskilled people can be paid to do your job salary is low

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    Mute Frank Cauldhame
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 1:58 PM

    @Andrew Giles: The “Median” wage for workers in Ireland in 2020 was €40,500.

    Impossible for most to get a mortgage, small landlords are leaving the sector and the REITS/CUCKOOS are hoovering them up to rent at extortionate prices.

    How did this ever happen?

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2020/annualearnings/

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    Mute Andrew Giles
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 6:17 PM

    @Frank Cauldhame: my guess, pure greed and a move to privatisation

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    Mute Claudia Varell
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 10:27 PM

    @Frank Cauldhame: I am on 42k/annum and guess what? I’ve got a mortgage last year and bought a house. It’s not impossible as long as you bring some flexibility into the deal. If you are looking for a posh house in Dublin, of course there is no way. But if you are able to move into the countryside, you’ll get acceptable houses for less than 150k. That was the limit I’ve set for myself and honestly, some properties around that price are a shame. But still there are properties around that are affordable, even with an average wage.

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    Mute Shane Hickey
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 7:23 AM

    Not going to end well

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    Mute Dave Barrett
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:25 AM

    @Shane Hickey: will this bubble burst? Has all the signs of the last celtic tiger.

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    Mute Anna Carr
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 8:30 AM

    It’ll be like USA here soon with everyone having no choice but to pay high rent. I feel sorry for young people starting off :(

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    Mute Martin O'Callaghan
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 8:57 AM

    @Anna Carr: I don’t mean to sound rude, but newsflash for you Anna: that’s what we’ve all been having to do for years now already – pay extortionate USA-style rents.

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    Mute Gert McNulty
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 9:14 AM

    @Anna Carr: will you and your peers continue to vote for fine gael and fianna fail?? Feeling sorry is useless

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    Mute Bri Lyons
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 9:50 AM

    @Gert McNulty: will you and your peers continue to believe SF ‘one for everyone in the audience’ spiel.

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    Mute Lily Martin
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 10:01 AM

    @Bri Lyons: The grim reality is FF FG and SF or some combination of same are inevitable. We are out of luck whatever the outcome. How any government can sit back and look at their country and see so many people struggling with health, rent, heating, childcare, and on and on, and feel like they are doing a good job is beyond baffling

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    Mute Anna Carr
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 12:34 PM

    @Gert McNulty: FYI I’ve never voted for them in my whole voting life, and never will.

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    Mute Cullen Cullen
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 9:16 AM

    40 years old. Originally from Dublin. Earnt below this average wage my whole life and managed to buy 2 houses an hour from Dublin. Now renting 1 and living in other. Some can do same, some can’t, some choose not to.

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    Mute zephyrum
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 10:09 AM

    @Cullen Cullen:

    Fair dues to you. Buying a first house has always historically being tough for the vast majority of people (normally couples). Very few can buy ‘where’ they grew up, you have to cut your cloth. In todays ‘single/individual’ world it is obviously going to be tougher for someone to buy their own place.

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    Mute Cullen Cullen
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 10:28 AM

    @zephyrum: I’m single. If I had kids I’d say I’d have not been able to have done it though the hypothetical Mrs would have been working so … maybe we could have.

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    Mute Jen Mc
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 10:40 AM

    @Cullen Cullen: when did you buy these 2 properties? Myself and my husband struggled to find anything under €320k in Rush, Lusk, Donabate or Swords in 2022.

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    Mute Martin O'Callaghan
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:04 AM

    @Cullen Cullen: Fair play man, I honestly admire your initiative. Would I be right in assuming you bought your first property in the Celtic Tiger era of 100% mortgages since you say you’ve earned below the average wage your whole life?
    This would mean you were in your early 20’s and to be fair, most people at that age aren’t focused on buying property and settling down. Their focus is on other adventures in life, which isn’t wrong, and shouldn’t mean that they should be penalised by locking them out of the chance of home ownership in their 30s. So I think it’s wrong of you to say some choose not to buy property.

    If you had waited until your 30s to buy your first property, you would’ve been refused a mortgage based on your salary unless you had an incredibly large deposit saved up

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    Mute Cullen Cullen
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:05 AM

    @Jen Mc: 2017 and 2021. I bought outside Dublin. Half the price.

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    Mute Martin O'Callaghan
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:09 AM

    @Cullen Cullen: which would be impossible to achieve if you were renting… especially Dublin rents.

    But honestly man, fair play to you for you initiative in early adulthood. It was very wise of you and it’s clearly worked out well and is paying dividends for you.
    Just please remember that we don’t all follow the same path in life, which doesn’t make it wrong and certainly doesn’t warrant penalisation as a consequence.

    35
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    Mute Cullen Cullen
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:12 AM

    @Martin O’Callaghan: I worked through my 20s. Bought the houses in my late 30s. I missed the celtic tiger.

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    Mute Cullen Cullen
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:26 AM

    @Martin O’Callaghan: I was renting up till last year in South Dublin (where i grew up and cant affird to buy) so, it is possible.
    I rented the 1st house I bought (2017) the week I got it. I’ve never slept in it. Its rent covers the mortgage and some.
    Only started to live in my 2nd house last year.
    Some can do same, some can’t, some choose not to.
    I feel you’re penalising yourself with your limiting beliefs though.

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    Mute Martin O'Callaghan
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:47 AM

    @Cullen Cullen: wow! I really do take my hat off to you man, fair play. Honestly.

    But the point still remains that most people can’t do this because we pursued other adventures in life in our 20s, and by our 30s the rents have become so extortionate that we’re unable to save the sizeable deposit required to get the mortgage.

    So I disagree with your point that some choose not to. I would say that most people are actually locked out due to the financial terror being rained down upon us from successive Irish governments over the past 20 years, as a consequence of economic policies pursued, that has had a crippling effect.

    I also wouldn’t say that’s a limiting belief, it’s (unfortunately) the reality of life for most millennials and younger.

    36
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    Mute Cullen Cullen
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 12:28 PM

    @Martin O’Callaghan: I will agree with you the day a millennial knocks and my door and offers to cut my grass to earn a few bob on the side

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    Mute Martin O'Callaghan
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 12:58 PM

    @Cullen Cullen: …and why would somebody in their 40’s be doing that when they’re busy working full time? You clearly don’t understand the meaning of “millennial”. Not to mind that earning a small few pound from cutting a few lawns isn’t going to achieve any serious earnings.

    I know of many millennials who are already working a second job part time on top of their full time job and are only barely getting by.

    36
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    Mute Colm Coughlan
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 1:26 PM

    @Cullen Cullen: Give up the coffee’s,Netflix and go around cutting some lawns and we will be all sorted. Why didn’t we all think of this sooner.

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    Mute Joey Roche
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 5:01 PM

    @Colm Coughlan: all them avacado lattes, spent 13 grand on them myself last year alone

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    Mute Jen Mc
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:37 PM

    @Cullen Cullen: so you bought a house when they weren’t expensive. Then you rented it out and made a profit from it meaning you could buy another house. I’ll be round to cut your grass so seeing as you’ll obviously pay well with the money you’re making.

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    Mute Cullen Cullen
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    Jan 4th 2023, 8:26 AM

    @Jen Mc: I’m on below average salary so I can’t afford your gardening services. I’d love to be able to buy a house in Swords too… or Dalkey or Howth. Check out this property I found using Daft
    https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-16-coney-park-coneyboro-athy-co-kildare/4262332 sounds like you could easily afford a house in Kildare with your 320k budget. Lucky you

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    Mute The Bolt
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 9:54 AM

    So the banks now allow you to borrow 4 times your salary. Most, but not all, will purchase a house as a couple, so that would be 4 times the combined wage, or 8 times the average wage. Tin foil hat anyone!

    43
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    Mute Claudia Varell
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 10:40 PM

    It is still possible to buy houses, if you really want. But you need some flexibility AND self control. Friends of mine have nearly 100k/annum salary as a couple, but are always complaining, that there are no affordable homes. When checking their social media timelines, they are doing short trips to Barcelona, London and so on at least once a month. Every week there is at least one photo of great food at some restaurant and on weekends parties with friends in the city. Both have the latest iPhones, AirPods Max, are fans of Netflix and Disney+ series and live in a very expensive apartment. But of course, it’s the fault of the greedy banks and st*pid politicians, that they can’t afford a house.

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    Mute Frank Koek
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 7:43 PM

    There must be a fair few people earning a multiple of that €48.000 to push that up.
    Most people I know or meet Get nowhere near that until maybe much later in life.
    No way that figure is correct.

    11
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    Mute thesaltyurchin
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 11:26 AM

    Soon enough the economic plan of lowering the age of borrowing will be in place… MWaaaahaaaaaw!

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    Mute Richard Chapman
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    Jan 3rd 2023, 4:58 PM

    97% Owned on Netflix describes what is really going on here and who is really in control. I am afraid it makes for uncomfortable watching. FF, FG nor SF haven’t a hope in sorting it….

    8
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