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Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond walking in front of a Saltire. Andrew Milligan/PA Wire

What both sides are saying in Scotland's great debate

There are 200 days to go.

IT IS EXACTLY 200 days until Scotland votes on whether to break from the United Kingdom and become an independent nation.

What began as a relatively polite and constructive campaign when the referendum was formally created late last year has recently become more fractious, with both sides accusing each other of  misinformation.

The referendum issues are both broad and contentious and  in large part have focused on what form an independent Scotland would take, what institutions the new Scotland would keep and what others they would create themselves. Scotland’s Government outlined their plans in a blueprint ‘Scotland’s Future: Your Guide to an Independent Scotland‘ but’s it’s implementation has been much debated.

Not least the proposal to keep using the British pound and to maintain an economic link with the Bank of England, something the bank itself have questioned.

But what exactly are both sides saying and indeed who is saying it?

First things first: The question

Before the referendum was even finalised, there was much argument and politiciking between Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond and UK Prime Minister David Cameron over what exactly should be asked and when the vote should take place. On those issues it was somewhat of a draw between the two party leaders.

Cameron wanted the vote to be held in mid-2013 but Salmond always had his eye on the autumn of 2014 for a number of reasons. Not only did he want more time to raise funds for the campaign and lay legal ground work, this year has a number of events that may help stoke Scottish nationalism.

The Commonwealth Games are to be held in Glasgow this year while the Ryder Cup returns to the country of it’s sports birth shortly after the referendum takes place.

This year also marks the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn when Robert the Bruce led Scotland to a significant victory against their southern neighbours in what is considered Scotland’s First War of Independence.

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The two rivals look on as Scotland’s Andy Murray’s prevails at last year’s Wimbledon tennis tournament.  (Pic: Kirsty Wigglesworth/AP)

But the referendum  needed backing from Westminster before it could go ahead and Cameron gained perhaps crucial win in making it a simple ‘Yes/No’ vote.

The question to be put to the Scottish people will be, ‘Should Scotland be an independent country?’.

The black and white wording was favoured by the UK Prime Minster who didn’t want a second question to be added to the ballot paper, allowing for a watered-down independence in the case of a ‘No’ vote.

What the ‘Yes’ side are saying

The Scottish National Party are to a very large degree the dominant voice in favour of the referendum, perhaps not surprising given that the vote in many ways represents the pinnacle of their ambition as a party to date. They are not alone, however, the ‘Yes Scotland’ campaign is also made up politicians from other parties and some notable public figures. They also have a lead in terms of fundraising, even if they have consistently trailed in the polls.

Here’s what they have said recently:

A shared currency will mean an independent Scotland having control of tax policy, employment policy, social security policy, oil and gas revenues, immigration policy and a range of other levers to suit our own circumstances, helping to grow our economy, create jobs and secure a more prosperous and fairer society. – Scottish finance secretary John Swinney on a currency union.
“The UK cabinet has come to Aberdeen but they’re not going to have any public discussion or access. It does seem a wasted opportunity, not just for the first minister and the prime minister to debate, but to have people from this area question the UK cabinet over its range of responsibilities.” – Alex Salmond on a sitting of the UK cabinet which took place in Scotland last week.
It was Scotland that proposed an increase in the number of qualifying places [for the European Championships], seconded by the Republic of Ireland. “This change was unashamedly in our interests, but it was also in the interests of small and medium sized countries across Europe which make up the majority of the members of UEFA. – Former general secretary of UEFA and chief executive of the Scottish Football Association David Taylor nails his colours to the mast.

“On the whole I’ve considered independence to be something of a no-brainer: if ever there was a small, potentially socialistic state that could do with being detached from its deluded imperialist neighbour, it’s Scotland.”  - Journalist Will Self in a column in the New Statesman magazine.

But as a Scot with a lifelong love of Scotland and the arts, I believe the opportunity of independence is too good to miss. Simply put there is no more creative an act than creating a new nation. – Actor Sean Connery has been pro-independence since the start of the campaign.
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David Cameron (centre) dons some high-vis gear to look around a BP oil rig 100 miles off the Aberdeen coast. (Pic: Andy Buchanan/PA Wire)

What the ‘No’ side are saying

The Scottish wings of the three main political parties in Westminster are all urging a ‘No vote. The formal ‘Better Together’ campaign is being led by Labour MP and former chancellor Alasdair Darling, with the UK Government also perhaps the most vocal side of actor in the ‘No’ side. Much of their recent campaigning has focused on pointing out what they see as gaps in Salmond’s plans.

Here’s what they have said recently:

If there’s one brand that people know when I go round the world, it’s the BBC. I sometimes think we don’t realise how important the BBC is in people’s perceptions of our country. – UK culture secretary Maria Miller.
“There are also a host of great British institutions, from the BBC and the National Lottery to the Met Office and our Olympic teams, who would have to be broken up in the event of independence.” – Alistair Carmichael, the Scottish Secretary of the UK Government.
A vote in favour of Scottish independence would be likely to significantly impact the Group’s credit ratings and could also impact the fiscal, monetary, legal and regulatory landscape to which the Group is subject. – The Royal Bank of Scotland outlines it’s concerns, echoing other financial institutions.
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Celebrity backing for the ‘No’ side in the form of David Bowie. (Pic: Martin Rickett/PA Wire)
“For the past 300 years, Britain has led the way in finding new sources of energy. It is the strength of the UK’s broad based economy which can make the difference and ensure we can invest in our energy for the long-term future. I promise we will continue to use the UK’s broad shoulders to invest in this vital industry.” Prime Minister David Cameron doubts Scotland’s ability to make the most of its oil rescources by without UK support.
“Scotland, please stay with us.” –  Apart from some strong support from Alex Ferguson, the ‘Yes’ side has had been lacking on some high-profile celebrity backing, so these five words from David Bowie at the Brit Awards went down well.

Read: ‘European friends came to the help of Ireland’: TDs brief Scots on EU membership >

Read: Alex Salmond has come out fighting after EU warning about Scottish independence >

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108 Comments
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    Mute Mrs parrott
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 1:07 PM

    I don’t care about the rights or wrongs of this story but what amazes me is a case like this goes before the high court. Judges at the top of their game (allegedly) they hear all the evidence and come to a decision. Next thing is at the court of appeal. Same evidence but a completely different ruling. What does that say about quality of judges?

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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 1:26 PM

    @Mrs parrott: it’s like a replay in the FA cup. Everyone wins except the poor clown with the check book.

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    Mute Matt Connolly
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 1:48 PM

    @Mrs parrott: Typically it’s where there is little or no precedent in an area, conflicting precedent or where precedent is producing unwanted results. (or, of course, where the judge got it wrong). This case would be down to the first – little or no precedent. Now that the court of appeal has ruled, the high court has guidance for future cases.

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    Mute Lorcán Ó Broin
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 2:36 PM

    @Mrs parrott: There’s a wider point: allowing appeals to higher courts on points of law establishes a firmer legal precedent, in which other similar cases in lower courts (and outside the court system) can cite and take notice of, which more markedly illustrates legal demarcations. Its how the nationwide legal and administrative framework develops

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    Mute Jonathan Barry
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:10 PM

    Should have said he was a ………..

    149
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    Mute Daniel Bohan
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:30 PM

    @Jonathan Barry:

    Oh let’s play bigot bingo!

    Should have said he was a….

    Muslim?
    Jew?
    Refugee?
    Syrian?
    Political asylum seeker?

    Do I win?

    87
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    Mute Daniel Bohan
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:47 PM

    @Finipops: Succinct

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    Mute Jake Gundersonn
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:40 PM

    Nationality is not a gift card as the journal like make it out to be. Don’t cheapen Countries to the same standard as monopoly board which The EU has turned out to be.

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    Mute Paul Lane
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:19 PM

    Jus soli applied prior to 2005, which means anyone born on the soil of Ireland is entitled to citizenship. Anyone born since Jan 2005 must have connection to Irish blood (jus sanguinis) such as one parent being Irish.

    106
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    Mute Fear Uisce
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:20 PM

    He should have just hacked the registery

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    Mute 3monkey
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 1:47 PM

    Did he not speak to his local TD ?

    54
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    Mute Fear Uisce
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 2:49 PM

    Or ask Putin for some help

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    Mute Ted Murray
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 3:33 PM

    @Fear Uisce: __ He would have kicked him in the Gulags.

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    Mute Alex Falcone
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:21 PM

    Dragging the elderly from their beds and denying them citizenship.
    Donald Trump is not a patch on Ireland.
    Where’s the protest this evening?

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    Mute Fozz
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:27 PM

    @Alex Falcone: Hyperbole much?

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    Mute Daniel Bohan
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:33 PM

    @Fozz: Alex does a very poor impression of a troll, just ignore

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    Mute Keelan O'neill
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:35 PM

    Never mind hyperbole what about hypocrisy. If this was someone born in direct provision Snowflake Alex would be celebrating the victory.

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    Mute Alex Falcone
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 12:42 PM

    @Keelan O’neill:
    Ingress and egress.

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 2:22 PM

    Did they drag him from his bed in Russia where he lives?

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    Mute CeannairBlue
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 2:22 PM

    How can it be so easy to kick out a normal person and yet rapists and murderers get to stay by citing the Human Rights Act ????

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    Mute Pablo Rojas Coppari
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 3:44 PM

    We don’t have a Human Rights Act

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    Mute CeannairBlue
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 4:15 PM

    @Pablo Rojas Coppari: Er, ever heard of the European Union of which we are member ? The European Convention on Human Rights ???

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    Mute Markonline
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 1:01 PM

    I hope he can bring his own hospital bed with him.

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    Mute Laurence Cavanagh
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 2:03 PM

    Just leave the man alone.Its not like he’s doing anyone any harm for Gods sake

    54
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    Mute Jake Gundersonn
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 2:15 PM

    @Laurence Cavanagh: I agree. He only wants to see his grandkids. Horrible to deny that right to anyone and technically he was born in Ireland before June 2004 so he’s entitled to it. Leave the man be, the journal reporting on it doesn’t do any good story justice

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 2:24 PM

    Sets a precedent so the law must be followed but I know what you mean, it’s all a bit pedantic.

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    Mute Permo Dermo
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 5:45 PM

    Why make up such a story? The man has given an undertaking not to claim social welfare here and he’s elderly so why not allow him a citizenship?

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    Mute CJ Stewart
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 1:34 PM

    …Hang on…was he born here or conceived here .. ?????…….it wasn’t just fight’in was done in WW2, a lot of lov’in was done too…..I’m sure there was a fair few Chesnokov’s hang’in round Henrietta Street back then…… ‘go on ya bo ya..away with ya ! ‘

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    Mute Eranu
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 1:29 PM

    In before Superfiends and Jason Culligan.

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    Mute Gerry Fallon
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 5:39 PM

    He’s 76 for jaysus sake! Will ye just give him de bleedin passport.

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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 6:09 PM

    It’s all to do with the importation of garlic and we know how that can get you in hot water here. The man’s name comes from the Russian word for garlic, if it’s been properly transcribed. Though, seriously, I hope he gets some sort of extended visa. He’s an elderly man who wants to be near his grandchildren

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    Mute winston smith
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 7:13 PM

    Maybe he should have hired a good Genealogist! …or just set him the Dublin Taxi Drivers Street test and if he passes he is in.

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    Mute William T Smith
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 7:45 PM

    maybe if he was an Egyptian?

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    Mute Paul Brady
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    Feb 4th 2017, 4:15 AM

    It seems a bit unfair that we make an aged grandfather’s life more difficult to establish a point of law but we expect better treatment for our own undocumented.
    Maybe we should set an example, now that precedent has been established, and judge this case on its merits and how we would like our diaspora to be judged?

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    Mute John O'Driscoll
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    Feb 24th 2017, 8:01 PM

    @Paul Brady: the hypocrisy of it all would be quite breathtaking in anywhere else but here. There’s Mr Kenny going to Washington to bring the bowl of shamroguery on a last mission because he’ll bear the brunt of the ‘disgrace’ of meeting Trump amongst the chattering classes and he can plead for the case of the undocumented/illegal Irish citizens living there. And take the blame again if it all goes South. Ironic that another Taoiseach, deV, asked Kennedy to shut the gates of the US to the Irish because he wanted to stem the brain and labour drain back in the Fifties.

    Enda might be better off honouring the entire Choctaw Nation that gave its little all to help the starving Irish in the Famine by offering Irish citizenship to every Choctaw kid born henceforth if they want it. Then the Choctaw could offer the undocumented Irish sanctuary from Trump’s 10K new immigration enforcement officers when the old midnight knock sounds and ”VOS PAPIERIEN!!! BITTE!!!” or however they’ll say it. Well it’s more outside the box thinking than just bringing over an annual bowl of weed on bended knee and asking for mercy from a not too kindly stranger perhaps. THat hasn’t gotten any traction vis-a-vis the illegal Irish in the past fourteen years since Ireland threw open Her so-called neutral ports to illegal aggressive warmongering and state policies of torture for all the begging..

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    Mute Ronan McDermott
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 5:59 PM

    Surely his son could sponsor him ?

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    Mute Martin Fahy
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    Feb 4th 2017, 9:14 AM

    He has not been able to prove he was born in Ireland.
    But there are other options. My wife is Chinese and we were able to sponsor a visa get her elderly Mum a 1 year visa, extendable to 2 years without any problem.
    Once you show that you will accommodate and support financially, it’s a fairly straightforward process.
    I wonder why his son has not gone down this route or are there other issues in this case not in the article, you don’t get the full story in reports like this.

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    Mute Michael Mcshane
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 11:44 PM

    ..maybe if he ran for president of the united states and won…then we would have no problem tracing a connect to the “ole sod” for him… begorrah

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    Mute Can Millet
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    Mute John O'Driscoll
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    Feb 24th 2017, 7:49 PM

    I thought nobody should be arbitrarily deprived of their citizenship? Is not a judge saying he disagrees with an earlier Court interpretation in favour of the man’s case not just another subjective interpretation of the evidence, albeit in an higher court? Seems arbitrary enough to me. The evidence remains what it is, unchallenged it seems to me in terms of what it is. Anyway point is moot now Roma locuta est. Loads of Brits have just been arbitrarily deprived of their EU citizenship by slightly greater loads of other Brits and nobody at the UN seems concerned so it might no longer be the human right it once was held to be.

    Perhaps he’d have been better off finding a Midlands petfood factory to invest in. Or perhaps a ‘contribution’ to the upkeep of Inishvickillaune. More traditional ways of securing Irish citizenship. Million nicker starting price for both might have been a bit high for an old commie born on Henrietta Street who wouldn’t be exactly rubbing Charvet-clad shoulders with those who can sell Irish citizeship and passports for 30 pcs of foreign despot silver or a mess of FDI pottage.

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    Mute Gerard Henry
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    Feb 3rd 2017, 4:13 PM

    The gov are handing out citizenship to every one who settled here amazing this man was refused

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