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College fees to get cut for children of Irish emigrants

The new rates will be in place by this September.

CHILDREN OF IRISH emigrants will now be able to access lower third level education fees.

Up until now children who were in the Irish education system but moved away had to pay full international fees if they wanted to come back and study as undergraduates in Ireland.

The Minister for Education, Ruairí Quinn, announced that children of Irish emigrants and other qualifying European citizens who spend five years in primary or post primary school in Ireland will now pay lower college fees in Ireland.

Undergraduates from Ireland and other EU countries pay €2,500 a year in fees.

While international fees for non-EU students range from €8,000 to over €20,000 per year, averaging over €10,000.

Emigration

The new fee structure will apply to children of Irish families who may have moved abroad for economic or social reasons and therefore were taken out of the Irish education system.

Minister Quinn said, “The economic upheaval that this country has been through has seen many of our citizens move abroad in search of work. But, as our situation improves, we are already seeing more families moving home and this is very welcome.

I want to ensure that the children of these migrants are not penalised when it comes to attending third level.

It will also apply to other qualifying European citizens who have schooled their children in Ireland or the EU.

Under the new system, any Irish, EU, EEA or Swiss student who has spent five years in primary school or second level in Ireland will be charged the same rate as other EU nationals to study at undergraduate level.

Arrangements are being put in place for the new fee scheme to be introduced for the coming academic year.

Quinn said,

From this September, once they meet the criteria of having spent five years in the primary or secondary school here they can avail of the EU rate of third level fees.

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33 Comments
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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:33 PM

    The church is doomed if it doesn’t deal with the misogyny… and sooner rather than later. That much is abundantly clear to everyone except themselves.

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    Mute Daisy Chai NSaw
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:57 PM

    @Louis Jacob: The church doesn’t care about women unless they’re breeders, supplying them with new members. If they could do away with women altogether, they would.

    205
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    Mute James
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:23 PM

    Why on earth do people care if it’s doomed. Let it be doomed. They’re not recruiting priests in the country in anyway near the numbers they need, church attendance figure are declining past rock bottom and on everything but paper nobody subscribes to it’s brand. If it were a company it would be Yahoo.. even the shareholders know it’s over at this stage and no amount of reshuffling the deck chairs is going to save it…

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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:37 PM

    @James: The problem is that it is not being replaced as a communal/spiritual centre. Don’t get me wrong. I lapsed a long time ago and am furious with the church for how they’ve behaved, but I do think that the lack of moral code is becoming apparent in communities all across the country. It just feels like we’re throwing out the baby with the bath water.

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    Mute James
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:21 PM

    Correlation does not equal causation. The loss of spiritually has nothing to do with the lack of a moral code. If that were the case the middle east would be a happy peaceful paradise. It’s more to do with the skewed moral the powers that be seem to have.The overwhelming desire to be seen to be the most compassionate society, the most forgiving society , to be the most charitable , etc no matter how many times a person has screwed or no matter how pushed to the pin of the collar tax payers are. We’ve traveller gangs roaming the countryside despite the community being given every possible hand out, we’re giving millions in overseas Aid while people live on the streets , people with hundreds of convictions given ridiculously short sentences… the list is endless… correct me if I’m wrong but is it the very people who describe themselves as spiritual pushing this…

    111
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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:32 PM

    @James: Yeah whatever.You completely missed my point.

    31
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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:36 PM

    That’s James

    13
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    Mute James
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:47 PM

    You’re saying that a loss of a spiritual center to the community seems to be leading to a break down of morals right? I’m simply saying that you don’t need spirituality to have morals and that in fact it’s the desire to be seen as possessing qualities associated with but not exclusive to spirituality that are causing a lot of the problems. Besides it’s not so much a loss of spirituality which is causing problems it the loss of will amongst society to be seen to punish anybody …..or to even use the word… From parents not punishing their kids ,and I’m not talking about slapping, to judges not punishing criminals , to government being terrified to punish parents who don’t control their kids… Even the Pope has said hell doesn’t exist anymore ..

    55
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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:57 PM

    @James: I’m not talking about any of that. I’m talking about the loss of basic codes and spiritual routines. I live in a very small community and even the atheists here agree that the community is lessoned because Sunday holds no special significance any more.

    42
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    Mute Louis Jacob
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:12 PM

    @Louis Jacob: *lessened

    13
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    Mute James
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:18 PM

    I will give you the that in a rural community the Church served as as a point of contact in the community where people could meet and discuss issues affecting it and as a place where people could check in to see if others needed help… the same though could be said for the local pub, shop or post office all of which are in decline.. I’m not sure how it being a Sunday or how “spiritual routines” make much of a difference to anything… most of the people who engaged in the “spiritual routines” on a Sunday turned judgmental hypocrites come Monday morning… I’d only have to mention things like the Fethard Boycott to prove that point….

    40
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    Mute Alan Scott
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:54 PM

    @james Quote they are not recruiting Priests in the Country But there was a lot of distractions going on there for a while

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    Mute David Stapleton
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    Jan 30th 2017, 3:10 PM

    Sorry, when you say “codes”, what do you mean? As for spiritual routines, have secular meetings to discuss being human, the weather, what is happening /is going to happen. Even religious philosophy – communicate…

    1
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    Mute the truth
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:40 PM

    I see people bringing children into churches to an organisation which covered up blocked investigations and hid evil child rapists and are still doing so.

    164
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    Mute bopter
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:50 PM

    Not me or any of my friends. We all have kids and don’t take them anywhere a church apart from the fake baptisms we had to go through for the nonsense schooling system.

    All of that aside, I really like the sound of Fr. Flannery and the church could be in with some sort of recovery with more like him.

    138
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    Mute deisecelt
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:51 PM

    Society in general covered at lot of that up too. Horrendous. Im not religious myself but you cant associate that carry on with parents taking their kids to mass.

    103
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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:52 PM

    If there was a business in your neighbourhood that had a history of covering up paedophilia would you take your children there once a week?

    140
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    Mute the truth
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:03 PM

    @openborders if there was such a business it would have be shut down.

    104
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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:05 PM

    Very true. Shocking that it hasn’t been.

    76
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    Mute the truth
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:05 PM

    of course you can how can any parent encourage and bring a child to an organisation that was and still is a danger to them.

    59
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    Mute The Gambler
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:22 PM

    There is a ‘business’ it’s called Islam and clowns like you don’t mind it coming into Ireland, a Christian country.

    41
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    Mute the truth
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:25 PM

    that’s a hell of a presumption there Gambler

    50
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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:30 PM

    The Gambler,I’m an atheist,so why would I be supporting any religion? Odd comment.

    59
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:45 PM

    @OpenBorders: What about marrying 6 year olds and having your wicked way @ 9 ?

    21
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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:58 PM

    As it’s illegal lavbeer I would advise against it and perhaps you should see a professional.

    44
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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:34 PM

    @OpenBorders: Ok – thanks. Anyone agreeing with such activities should be questioned.

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    Mute Alan Scott
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    Jan 29th 2017, 7:01 PM

    @bobter There are genuine Priests such as the two men in this story I also the Pope is a real gentleman that puts people first if he stays in there he will make a great effort to bring it back from where it is at moment the brink of doom.

    12
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    Mute
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    Jan 31st 2017, 1:33 PM

    @Alan Scott: The pope teaches that God alone matters. That is not putting people first. Jesus said we must love God with all our being not most of it.

    1
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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:45 PM

    Raping babies, imprisoning women, child-trafficking and slave labour tend to lead to a decline in popularity.

    100
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    Mute Colonel Buckshot
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:37 PM

    @OpenBorders: Another religion has beaten that record and doesn’t seem to be declining in popularity.

    33
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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:00 PM

    Are you condoning the above behaviour?

    25
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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:30 PM

    Why do we need the church anyways people have evolved the church had its day they made to many mistakes.

    100
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    Mute Pat Morrissey
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:48 PM

    How many times have we heard the words “I did no wrong” from weasels who can not (or will not) remember the words they say every day: “I have sinned . . . in what I have failed to do”.

    72
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    Mute Alex Falcone
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:42 PM

    Neither of these two men speak for the Church. Their opinions are heretical.
    The liberal press love them and trot them out regularly to facilitate theoretical and hypothetical debates on Church policy.
    As such everything they say must be taken with a large pinch of salt.
    If you want to know about the real Church speak to people from within the Church.

    66
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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:50 PM

    They are both ordained Catholic priests,therefore they are ‘inside the church’.

    The hyper-conservative busy bodies have an issue with then because they are progressive and not regressive.

    Since when are you a spokesperson for the Catholic Church?

    97
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    Mute Keelan O'neill
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:52 PM

    The nonsense you spout is contradictory to the man in your profile pic. Please change it. A slurry pit seems more appropriate.

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    Mute bopter
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:52 PM

    @Alex Falcone: In my opinion the only chance the Catholic Church has of any recovery in Ireland is through recruitment of priests like Fr. Flannery.

    54
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    Mute Alex Falcone
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:57 PM

    @OpenBorders:
    Both censured by the Vatican for their heretical opinions. Men who have abnegated the responsibility of their vocation and motivated by personal grudges against Vatican authority.
    I have appointed myself as the voice of the good people of Ireland here on the Journal.

    41
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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:59 PM

    The Vatican is a corrupt organisation,surely people pointing that out is a good thing.

    68
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    Mute Gulliver Foyle
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:01 PM

    It won’t recover, and will be all but history in two generations. These Tony and Sean characters are hypocrites who can see that the organisation that they have dedicated their lives to protecting and growing is nothing but a sham, and they don’t have the courage to just quit. It’s their only grasp at infamy, and they love the attention it brings them – outside the church they would be ignored.

    32
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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:02 PM

    The Catholic Church is finished in Ireland. Irish people dont want to be brainwashed by an organisation that has abused so many of its flock over the years and still wont cough up
    the compensation to its victims.

    70
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    Mute Alex Falcone
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:05 PM

    @Gus Sheridan:
    Given that over 85% of people identify themselves as Catholic I do feel your understanding of the sphere of religious influence in Ireland is wide of the mark.

    47
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    Mute the truth
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:10 PM

    @alex 30 years ago you would listened intently to every word Brendan Smyth said aswell I suppose beacuse he was in the church.

    61
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    Mute the truth
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:12 PM

    @gus you would expect that alright but sadly and unbelievably not the case where I am it’s standing room only.

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    Mute Daisy Chai NSaw
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:17 PM
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    Mute Alex Falcone
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:34 PM

    @the truth:
    No.
    I listen to the Vatican not local priests.

    16
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    Mute Jeanette McDonald
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:40 PM

    Hmmmmm and did you listen to the Vatican when they covered up child rape, too? Don’t be so ridiculous Falcone.

    60
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    Mute the truth
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:41 PM

    @alex so you only attend religious services in the vatican? sorry I never even though of you living in Rome.

    39
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    Mute JC O'Connachain
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:44 PM

    Alex there is a time and place to troll but on a topic like this you should show some manners and intelligence. Go on a Trump article and say he’s a great lad if you feel the need to but not on this topic

    44
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    Mute Coles
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:44 PM

    RyanAir do a Sunday morning flight for true believers like Alex.

    30
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    Mute Coles
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:47 PM

    Alex – “If you want to know about the real Church speak to people from within the Church.”

    er, no. If you really want to know about the Church speak to it’s victims and the few good priests who stood up for them.

    46
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    Mute Fiona Fitzgerald
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:52 PM

    It seems to me that they do. Not for Roman Catholics. For Irish Catholics. Is this your problem? That Roman influence is widely considered to be unChristian in this country?

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    Mute Sinead Hanley
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:09 PM

    Alex. As a person who attends Mass regularly I think Fr Flannery speaks a lot of truth. The priests I knew of the 1970′s and 1980′s were ignorant pigs who didn’t understand or value or have time for women. I have gotten to know a few priests in the last decade or so and they are a breath of fresh air. However. About 2 years ago our Bishop of Killaloe made a decision that lay people could become deacons. Single and married people could apply. But WOMEN need not apply. There was uproar! Even the priests agreed. They organised public meetings with the Bishop but he refused to attend and he eventually withdrew the recruiting of deacons. Then he retired. There are good priests in the church but they can’t get through to the hierarchy in their Ivory towers.

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    Mute Alex Falcone
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    Jan 29th 2017, 9:49 PM

    I am quite certain of one thing.
    Speaking to disgruntled atheists on the Journal will never lead one to an understanding of religion in Ireland.

    11
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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Jan 29th 2017, 11:52 PM

    Alex, on paper..on paper… check out the empty churches buddy

    7
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    Mute Trisha Tully
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:00 PM

    Personally Alex I think what the Catholic church says should be taken with a sack of salt. They don’t speak for everyone either.

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    Mute Trisha Tully
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:58 PM

    I am Catholic Alex simply because I was baptized. I had no choice in the matter. I class myself as a believer in God but I have no time for the church.

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    Mute
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    Jan 31st 2017, 1:43 PM

    @Alex Falcone: Who decides that somebody is really Catholic? Only God could. Religious labels are degrading and the means through which religion causes hate and division.

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    Mute Mrs M
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:24 PM

    An organisation based on the belief of a deity in the sky telling people how to live their lives whilst and their own employees cannot marry passing judgement on people and enriching themselves lol the idea of religion is rediculous .

    58
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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:41 PM

    Fr. Flannery it is never to late to get married if you meet the right partner.

    53
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    Mute Mary
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    Jan 29th 2017, 9:16 PM

    @Kerry Blake:
    Fr. Flannery’s real beef with the Vatican, is, his refusal to affirm that the Eucharist is Real Presence… and before the people who don’t believe attack me…. I just want to point out that this is horrifying coming from one who professes to be a Catholic priest!!!

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    Mute Tom Reilly
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    Jan 29th 2017, 10:54 PM

    @Mary: I would hazard a guess and say that the vast majority of priests do not believe that we are actually eating the real body of Christ in the Eucharist. If all these doctrines were true how come that four senior cardinals are challenging the infallibility of the Pope at present. When the pope issues teachings on faith and morals he cannot be wrong. And yet there are cardinals who say he is wrong. Go figure.

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    Mute Squiddley Diddley
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:02 AM

    The Catholic Church provides special hosts for coeliac parishioners. In case the Real Presence makes anyone unwell. Fr. Flannery obviously has less capacity for doublethink.

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    Mute John B
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:11 PM

    Squiddley isn’t that an admission that it doesn’t turn into the body of Jesus?

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    Mute Squiddley Diddley
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    Jan 30th 2017, 2:43 PM

    Exactly.

    2
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    Mute Squiddley Diddley
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    Jan 30th 2017, 2:58 PM

    @ John B perhaps I should have spelled it out a bit more. I was implying that by claiming the host turns into the real body and blood of Christ but also supplying gluten-free hosts the church is indulging in doublethink as defined in Orwell’s1984. Fr. Flannery would seem to be above that. I expect the Church line on those hosts would be along the lines of ‘we never said it was really the Body of Christ, we meant something else’ in keeping with the usual tactic of having one answer for ordinary people and another for more sophisticated questioners.(As in proclaiming ‘Limbo is gone’ and when asked why is it gone and why did they have it wrong for so long the answer becomes ‘well it was never really there and it’s not really gone, it’s complicated….’

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    Mute Mary
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    Jan 30th 2017, 4:25 PM

    @Squiddley Diddley:
    To those who believe, no explanation is necessary, but, for those who do not,no explanation is possible ;)

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    Mute Squiddley Diddley
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    Jan 30th 2017, 5:06 PM

    The tricky thing Mary is that there are so many who believe and don’t believe at the same time, and worse, many who pretend to themselves that they believe but do not behave as if their immortal souls will be judged for all eternity at the end of their lives, indeed far from it, and I include bishops and cardinals in that… Something to do with being human I suppose…

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    Mute Aoife Pedreschi
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:29 PM

    @openborders – it’s a pity you are so intolerable to other people’s beliefs. Sure you must have all the answers so. A 2000 year old belief and millions of people all comes down to nothing is it?big bunch of fools who know nothing. If only we’d all have listened to you.why do atheists go on like they’re the first generation of enlightened ones !! Why do you get so offended by the fact that I’m saying I have a good experience of the church ? Have I insulted you in any way. I respect that you don’t believe. I don’t insult you. But I have as much right as anyone else to express my opinion and feel the need to on an article like this where I see so much negativity. I’m not here to debate with you or anyone else but just wanted to give a different opinion showing my positive experience.

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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:58 PM

    There are religions still practised that are older than 2,000 years,if that’s what validates your belief why not choose one that’s older?

    Of course you have a right to express your opinion,and equally I have a right to disagree with it.

    You seem to be saying, ‘Oh all that bad stuff that happened in the past is over,the Church today is great so I can just pretend it never happened,everyone deserves a fresh start!’ A very naïve outlook.

    How anyone can analyse the Roman Catholic Church’s crimes against humanity and corruption objectively and still want to be a member is one of life’s great mysteries.

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    Mute Aoife Pedreschi
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:10 PM

    @openborders- of course they were awful times. You think I don’t feel horrified at what went on. And catholics are upset as much as anyone else. But I’m talking about my current experience so no need to call me ignorant. Isn’t it also terrible that those girls who ended up in the magdalene laundries were kicked out of their homes by their own families for shaming their families. Just shows how the general culture was back then. And thankfully that’s all changed. All I can do is go on my own experience of god and the church.

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    Mute Eamonn McAuley
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    Jan 29th 2017, 7:26 PM

    @Aoife Pedreschi: ”
    Isn’t it also terrible that those girls who ended up in the magdalene laundries were kicked out of their homes by their own families for shaming their families.”

    Because they were made to feel shamed by the catholic church ….. The “general culture” as you put it, was instigated, promoted and policed by the local parish priest …..

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    Mute the truth
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    Jan 29th 2017, 10:57 PM

    @aoife anyone be it priest or parishioner who stayed involved in the Catholic Church after all we know about the activities of priests and the systemic cover up,blocking and harbouring out of the reach of the law of evil child rapists in my opinion is a 8headcase and is in fact alright with these actions, beacuse anyone who thought different would run a mile from that church.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:42 PM

    The church is big and the church will survive. History repeats itself.
    Trump could well be a guy to start a world war. There will always be a need for God.

    Those of you who remember the wrongdoing of the church, remember this.

    There is a new generation who are a clean slate. They won’t have the same animosity towards the church.

    The church will evolve the church will modernise.

    I wouldn’t write off the church.

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:23 PM

    @Tom Burke: I agree Tom the new generation have a clean slate so they will have no animosity towards the Church because that have no interest in the Church……

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    Mute Daisy Chai NSaw
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    Jan 29th 2017, 8:11 PM

    @Tom Burke: They’ll evolve by dropping more beliefs like unbaptised babies going to hell.

    When the numbers and the money drop enough, they’ll make something else up, like they’ve been doing since they invented catholicism.

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    Mute Aoife Pedreschi
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:49 PM

    These priests are known for their brrak away liberal beliefs and some beliefs that go against the church. The church I know is well and truly alive. Look at world youth day and even our own local youth festivals that you don’t hear about in the media. …. I’m part of the church and I see it in a very different light. The most important human being in the church is a woman. Mary the mother of jesus. As a woman myself I don’t feel at all treated less or differently. It’s easy to take this rubbish article in when you don’t experience the new revived catholic church that is going on. And pope Francis is a good leader too. If you’re not catholic then don’t worry about the Catholic Church or get obsessed with putting it down. .

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:58 PM

    @Aoife Pedreschi: So you can not become a priest but you don’t feel treated any differently Aoife. Really??

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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:04 PM

    Stunningly ignorant comment Aoife,were the women in Magdalene Launderies treated ‘equally’ by the Church? Were the infant girls who were child-trafficked abroad ‘equal’? Were the women who had their pelvic bones sawn in two ‘equal’? Your church is almost dead and your places of worship are empty.

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    Mute Fintin Stack
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:51 PM

    @Aoife Pedreschi:

    The church is dead in modern day Ireland. The majority neither respect it or practice its doctrine.

    Numbers at sunday services have been declining for years….

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    Mute canuckandgo
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    Jan 29th 2017, 7:08 PM

    Not before time! Filling vulnerable people’s minds with superstitious nonsense.

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    Mute Aoife Pedreschi
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    Jan 29th 2017, 8:43 PM

    Jeanette you do need to just read over what I said. How am I being condescending by saying my understanding of why women can’t be priests is because of my understanding of the faith. Isn’t it true that someone who doesn’t practice or experience catholicism may not see the in depth complex reason for this and instead just see it as a gender issue. Which I’m saying is not that simple. As catholics we understand it comes down to the mass,the meaning of the mass and what it represents at the moment of consecration. And where did I say anything about glossing over the facts of the past. In fact I addressed these as horrific acts that upset me and other catholics. Magdalene laundries where did that come from?? I was directly responding to someone who brought up the magdalene laundries. And yes all I was saying is that my experience with the faith is good. Geez people need to calm down and stop being so offended by this.

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    Mute Jeanette McDonald
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    Jan 29th 2017, 9:10 PM

    Aoife, no I really don’t need to read over it again, I read and understood it very well.

    You did the usual, “wasn’t the family terrible too” when talking about the Magdalene laundries. It’s a tactic used often when attempting to minimise the church’s involvement. I’m also not sure why you feel many don’t understand the faith reason for not having female catholic priests (though actually, it is not a reason of faith but rather a reason of dogma), plenty do.

    I’m not picking in the least Aoife, I’m disagreeing with your statements. If you are going to comment you do need to be prepared for that I’m afraid, just as we all are.

    Interesting that you feel those who disagree with you should calm down. I doubt anyone is offended, just disagreeing with you, that’s all. I wouldn’t worry about it too much if I were you.

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    Mute Trisha Tully
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:26 AM

    Aoife could you take the time to explain why women can’t be priests. Now I’m someone who was brought to Mass by my parents & stopped going when I was old enough to make my own decision so keep it simple for me or I might not understand the complexities of it all.

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    Mute Aoife Pedreschi
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:04 PM

    Kerry blake- exactly. I don’t feel like I’m treated differently to any other catholics. And I have an understanding as to why women cannot be priests. It’s an understanding that only comes through faith and understanding in catholicism. Trying to understand it for many people is like trying to understand a subject without studying it. I agree in the old days women in general may have been treated badly in general. The whole woman should be at home thing. But that was a cultural thing too. But my experience in the Catholic Church now is great.

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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:12 PM

    ‘I have an understanding as to why women can’t become priests’

    That’s called submission and being subservient,it’s a pity you don’t have an understanding of how a cult operates in making sure its adherents don’t question their diktats and use cognitive dissonance to rationalise why they are treated as slaves to an ideology.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jan 29th 2017, 6:44 PM

    @OpenBorders: That’s called submission and being subservient,it’s a pity you don’t have an understanding of how a cult operates in making sure its adherents don’t question their diktats and use cognitive dissonance to rationalise why they are treated as slaves to an ideology

    ……………………… so why do you want open borders and allow people with the submission ideology to come to Ireland without any restrictions?

    I bet you are a net beneficiary of the Irish state !!!

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    Mute Jeanette McDonald
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    Jan 29th 2017, 7:35 PM

    Aoife, I’m a church going Catholic woman too. And comments like you having a good understanding of why women can’t be priests and others don’t is insulting and condescending. Many know the reasons, and many too have been fed bullshi* about it, consider your sources. If you have a good experience, great. But that does not gloss over the very real and utterly horrific acts that were perpetrated by priests and Bishops and covered up all the way to the Vatican. The most important figure in the church is Christ, by the way. And lest you forget, He was a radical, a Man who stood up and opposed the men at the top. As to the women being kicked out of their own homes into the laundries, just where did all that come from? The local priest. By attempting to say well that’s all in the past you do a disservice to those who have lived through the horrors of that past and run the risk of allowing those horrors to happen again.

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 29th 2017, 8:06 PM

    Jeanette
    Why don’t you read what Aoifa wrote.
    You don’t have to agree but Aoifa was not being condescending or insulting.

    You need to chill out a bit.

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    Mute Jeanette McDonald
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    Jan 29th 2017, 8:12 PM

    Why thank you Tom. And if you read what I wrote you will see I read Aoife’s post very well. I’m very chilled, but don’t let that stop you from issuing your usual orders. Always a pleasure.

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    Mute Trisha Tully
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    Jan 30th 2017, 1:13 PM

    I think Aoifa was being very condescending Tom but i’ve asked her to explain why women can’t be priests. Obviously she doesn’t have to if she doesn’t want to but it would be interesting to hear.

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    Mute Michael Daly
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    Jan 29th 2017, 10:18 PM

    Ah Fr. Flannery! Everybody out of step except you. The Church has Christ’s promise that it will last to the end of time. It has weathered many storms and has made horrendous mistakes. However it is still with us. It is not possible for anybody or organisation to undo the past. It will never be possible for the Church to escape that past entirely. However we as Christians have hope including hope in the Church.

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jan 30th 2017, 2:08 AM

    Michael, of course the past can’t be undone that’s pretty obvious. Well, I guess unless you’re bringing people back from the dead. Hang on, didn’t Jesus do that? The past has already happened but the church has not acknowledged it. A priest dies of paedophilia in one parish and springs back up in another, tah-dah Fr. Lazarus

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    Mute
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    Jan 31st 2017, 1:39 PM

    @Michael Daly: It controversial to say the Church was set up by Christ. Most historians even Christian ones see Catholicism as a religion that formed slowly. It took centuries for the bishop of Rome to be able to rule the church. And most believers at the time saw the papacy as a new invention. The reformation really was a return to more authentic Christian doctrine.

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    Mute Gerard Creedon
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    Jan 29th 2017, 4:06 PM

    People have a v closed mind in dis country and only c what they want ….

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jan 29th 2017, 11:35 PM

    @Gerard Creedon: But spread it about in pub bars…

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    Mute Aoife Pedreschi
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    Jan 29th 2017, 8:53 PM

    @jeanette – I didn’t say most Important figure. I said most important human is Mary the mother of god. Who yes became man but is god. This is our belief. But Mary is honoured more than the saints and any other human in the church. You’re really picking at what you can try get. I wasn’t being rude or offensive to anyone and i don’t judge others on what they believe. Again I’ll say it again- I was just saying my experience of the church are great in this current time. Because most other comments here were negative like every other article regarding the church. Someone said “your place of worship is empty” – who says? the journal? Well he wasn’t in my church this morning then. It was packed. Like every Sunday.

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    Mute mark d
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:32 PM

    I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

    According to your religion you shouldn’t even be arguing with us about this.

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    Mute Mary
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    Jan 29th 2017, 9:22 PM

    Fr. Flannery’s real beef with the Vatican, is, his refusal to affirm that the Eucharist is the Real Presence… and before the people who don’t believe attack me…. I just want to point out that this is horrifying coming from one who professes to be a Catholic priest!!!

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Jan 29th 2017, 9:28 PM

    @Mary: Or possibly a bit more realistic rather then relying on dogma….

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    Mute Sack Pell
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    Feb 5th 2017, 3:06 AM

    @Mary:@Mary: Our Church is sadly very corrupt. I often ponder that if we had taken the washing of the feet from the last supper as our central theme rather than the breaking of bread which has become a demarcation of superiority and elevated one gender above the other that we would be in a better place. We don’t need the “real Presence” it undermines the power of memory. It should be enough for us that Jesus was focused on right relationships and struggled for justice. We need to come clean and drop the hocus pocus and focus on service. Accountability, transparency and women that’s what the crumbling institution needs. Cheers Catherine

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    Mute Mahmoud O'Connell
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:36 PM

    Utter collapse, says a bloke who joined a club – knowing the rules! Just like joining a golf club, and saying that ‘I now hate golf’ – but OK, it should only be played on Wednesday mornings. What a sad crowd our ex-priests are – does anyone know if their masses are even real? Obviously, they’re well balanced – chips on both shoulders…

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:40 PM

    He wouldn’t survive in any Irish political party either. Let’s be honest. The party line or out the door.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jan 29th 2017, 10:38 PM

    @lavbeer: That caused the P.D’s to come out of F.F. and look what happened them?

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    Mute Aoife Pedreschi
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:40 AM

    @the truth- are you saying catholics are okay with the abuse that went on???? If you support a football team and a football player is found guilty of rape do you stop supporting the team? If you are saying what I think you are it’s a disgusting comment to accuse every catholic of being okay with what went on.

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    Mute mark d
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    Jan 30th 2017, 11:38 PM

    If that football team had a culture of rape and hid/covered up the rapes and at times facilitated the rapes then yes I would stop supporting that team. You present a false equivalency with that argument.

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    Mute John O'Shaughnessy
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:58 AM

    Amazing how all the self-styled ‘atheists’ and church-hating malcontents are so opposed to church and religion that they spend most of their time posting about…. well, church and religion! Have they no other interests? Why are the so bound up in matters that they profess to have no belief in? Seems like a very unhealthy form of ‘atheism’ to me. Maybe they really are at heart true believers that cannot let go, and console themselves by pretending to be ‘atheists’ and antichrists? Maybe they should just find another interest, forget their tiresome prattling, bitterness and rancour and move on- and mind their own business. Twisted hate will only destroy the soul – even an ‘atheist’ soul!

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    Mute
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    Jan 31st 2017, 1:46 PM

    @John O’Shaughnessy: At least you hate nobody. That comes across.

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    Mute
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    Jan 31st 2017, 1:50 PM

    @John O’Shaughnessy: We unbelievers could have the truth and you expect us to mind our own business?

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    Mute Dylan McKane
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    Jan 29th 2017, 3:25 PM
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    Mute Dolores Duggan
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    Jan 29th 2017, 7:33 PM

    I don’t really think it’s about misogyny but an entrenched institution that is holding onto the middle ages. I think a progressive society can live side by side with the Church but if that organisation refuses to engage with women, gay people, divorced and separated people and more so abused children of all ages then their influence and goodness is totally negated. No wonder. Priests that have differing and enlightened opinions are treated like lepers. It’s not Christian taken from the word meaning followers of Christ.

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    Mute Aoife Pedreschi
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    Jan 29th 2017, 11:34 PM

    @jeanette- I did the usual “wasn’t the family terrible”. Is that the usual? Well it’s something I believe….. women would get dirty looks if they were pregnant by others on the street. And be kicked out of their home by their own parents. This culture still goes on in other countries ,in particular middle eastern countries. Perhaps yeah the church enforced these beliefs and I agree it was wrong to treat people in that sort of way but people weren’t held at gunpoint by the church either. So it was an outdated way of thinking in general society. I never once came on here and said the churchs history is perfect. It’s far from it. Really it is. And I am okay with a debate….. but I have to laugh at how people respond to a young person these days saying they are catholic and have a good experience with the church. Anyway tiz all good. I just wanted to say me part and say there’s alot of good in the church too. Peace

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Jan 29th 2017, 10:37 PM

    I think people think a religion is a society that you change what you don’t like about it. I am afraid a religion is something the person chooses, if you don’t like the religion then don’t be part of it?
    It is like letting neighbours tell you how to decorate your house and if you refuse then they decorate it for you?
    Some could say that the Catholic church went down hill after Vatican 2, that this was the start of the falling away from the Church, it lost its focus by trying to appease some in the Church than on its main gocus which was Christ but the Catholic church was always like that, those who had the money became the popes in many cases and they behaved like a mafia. The Catholic church has lost its way, its first focus was always money and power but their arrogance has made them loose sight of Jesus as well as the term goes the flock.
    The Catholic church should be focused on Christ as that is what it is all about as well as looking after people and their spiritual needs. The Catholic church doesn’t know what it is anymore and has become weak, it has become a business and will now do anything to follow the money. So people will eventually change it and if it keeps on changing then more and more people will leave it. This might kick off desperation in the Church because when you control what people believe then you control their money.
    If the Catholic church wants to survive it needs to bring back who and what Christ is, the Catholic Church is not a democracy, it is a set of beliefs that goes back to Christ and to the Old Testament.
    That is what it issuppose to be about and not a democracy of combined beliefs by people who are power hungry to control others.
    A religion is choosen, it is not rearranged like flower arrangments, if you don’t like a religion then leave it, people shouldn’t think they have a right to make their personal beliefs part of it especially when they are in the minority to all those who follow it. What right has a few to change anything on the many, is that not arrogance really?

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    Mute Tom Burke
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    Jan 30th 2017, 4:39 AM

    Alois
    I challenge you on the assertion that the church is all about money.
    I could go into a church this morning and pray- no charge.
    I could go to Mass- no charge. No collection during the week.
    I could go to Mass on Sun- no charge.
    Collection is optional. Give nothing give anything. 2c?
    It’s you’re call. Nobody knows nobody keeps a record.

    The church will be heated and clean.

    If you want to talk to the priest about any issue or problem, no charge.

    Tell me any other premises like a pub or restaurant etc, that you can enter before somebody approaches you in a short period of time to establish how much you want to spend.

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    Mute
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    Jan 31st 2017, 2:03 PM

    @Tom Burke: Tom truthful as always. The Church wastes much of the money it gets. Little goes to helping people. Despite the massive funds the pope has access to he sends pittances following natural disasters. http://www.churchsecurity.info/index_files/Page432.html shows how a Catholic is battling the Church on its selfish attitude to your money. Sadly old people are giving priests a lot of money every year. They sacrifice so much for men who will probably never even visit them in hospital. A lot of money is wasted on the Church promoting a man made religion that never corrects errors. The evidence that Jesus was a man of his time and a bad role model is just ignored.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Feb 1st 2017, 4:44 AM

    @Tom Burke: Could be worse… http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2763-dcleaks-bombshell-the-soros-francis-connection
    If you control what people believe you do control their money?

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Feb 1st 2017, 4:48 AM

    @Tom Burke: And by the way I spent a year as a novitiate, the poor old women who hand up a lot of their pension to priests weekly, who think they are doing some good…

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    Mute Val Martin
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:30 PM

    I was a church supporter until I went to Rome and saw the Pope had built a wall round the Vatican.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:48 PM

    @Val Martin: And to be fair – a fine wall it is. Lasted the test of time unlike some apartment blocks in Dublin. And himself only there a wet week

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    Mute Mahmoud O'Connell
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:57 PM

    Why tell us, Val?

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    Mute Mahmoud O'Connell
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    Jan 29th 2017, 5:57 PM

    Why tell us?

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    Mute Val Martin
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    Jan 31st 2017, 12:21 AM

    @Mahmoud O’Connell: Because is a tread on the church, not growing carrots

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    Mute Val Martin
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    Jan 31st 2017, 12:33 AM

    The catholic church took a serious blow when the Pope endorsed the fake climate change scam. Unlike theology it can be proved a lie over time and for the 1st time in its history, the Pope will have been proven wrong. Why should anyone believe in the church, on god and his commandments when the pope has added an 11th one, thou shalt not burn fossil fuel.

    Up until 20 years ago a big segment of societies believed and supported the church. Now that is down to a tiny fraction. That does not mean society turns atheist. The need to believe and to be told what to do is strong. What is happening is the Commie, socialist, greenie, liberals have stepped in to the breach. We get led and said by the Eamon Ryans of this world, Madona and Cher. Extreme Muslim anger s not so much against the west because it christian, or jewish, its angry at the west because its not worshiping any god.

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    Mute Roy O' Brien
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    Jan 30th 2017, 12:07 AM

    And take away the free Toyota’s

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    Mute Val Martin
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    Jan 30th 2017, 6:43 AM

    The church is part of the establishment and the establishment is in retreat. The church will need the intercession of a higher being to survive. Maybe that will happen, I don’t know. All I know is that church goers round here are every bit as good a neighbours as non church goers. Women seem to be active in the local parish. Don’t know any more

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    Mute Gerard Henry
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    Jan 29th 2017, 9:40 PM

    Islam can’t be allowed to fill he vaccine our church was and yo an extent stil is a evil place where horrors wer taking place daily in the name of God

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    Mute David Stapleton
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    Jan 30th 2017, 3:05 PM

    When and where is the party?

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