@ Catherine, fair comment, but who is more likely to get the job in the first place? the one who worked their backside off to get the grades, or the one who didn’t?

Well to most employers a degree is a degree really and I was one of those students who worked my ass off all through the course then there was the students who ahem … Did it in bursts and had a ball in between and still got amazing results. One of the my managers in the UK didn’t have any degree at all just worked his way up. That’s what employers want. So it’s really how you act once you start work. If your productive and make the company money your perfect. That can happen regardless of how you got the job.

Okay, I too know some who got great results in their leaving and collage and then faded at work cos they couldn’t hack it , I also know people who never went to collage and are consistently out perform their educated colleagues.

But if two people apply for a job, both just out of collage, who are you going to pick? The one who didn’t brilliant at collage and got all the good results, or the one who got average results? After all, that is all you would have to judge them on, their collage results, is that really any different from collages preferring someone getting high points in their leaving cert over someone who didn’t?

Stop saying collage! You went to college and can’t even spell it and yes students who worked hard for their LC should get priority over the ones who did feck all, but disabled people and other people who really need it should get first pick. But when you start working people couldn’t give a damn if you got an A in 18th century literature, you’re there to work and earn money for your employer

Who said I went to college? I never went to college, which is probably why I can’t spell college.

Brian – There is a huge difference between examination from secondary school and third-level. Third-level has exams every year for 4 years, along with continuous assessment for each module. It isn’t a snap-shot of one single week of your life, but rather a collection of results over 4 years.

Having a degree doesn’t entitle you to anything. All it does is give you the opportunity to gain employment. It’s hard work and dedication over the subsequent years that will allow you to climb the ladder.

@ Sean, fair enough, and I greatly admire what you did to pick yourself up after your bad leaving cert results.

Once in the work place you will be judged on your performance, but I guess my point is, that would you really have put in all that hard work if you thought there was going to be no reward? What would have been the point of going to college at all if there wasn’t at least the chance of something better at the end of it?

And you are right, having a degree doesn’t entitle you to employment, but doesn’t it make it a hell of a lot easier, and doesn’t having a good degree with good results make it more likely you would succeed at gaining a decent job than someone with average results?

Of course the person who got better grades in college should be more likely to get a job (all else equal). But that’s as far as the advantage should go (As the CAO works – entry), this is the equivalent to two people starting the same job and the person who got a first class honours getting a bigger desk than the person who got a 2:2 purely based on grades. This is coming from a guy who didn’t do well in the leaving but got a first class degree.

Okay, and this will be my last post on this one today, because I think I am fighting a loosing battle here and I think I shall cut my loses, but if I offered first class degree students a bigger desk (or some other incentive) than those with a 2:2, would that not encourage those with a 1st to come to me to be employed, would than not encourage the best and brightest to apply?

Fine, once they are in work, and if they prove useless, you say right of to the smaller desk with you, but should we not encourage people to at least try to be the best and brightest, whether it is at secondary school, at college, or in the work place, should we not reward that success, or should we give the same rewards to everyone regardless of there ability or hard work?

I see what you’re saying but I think the incentive to get a good degree is to get a better job, not to be treated better once you’re there.

Well, the French have the Legion of Honour. Bitta privilege there!

Surely we grant every citizen equally opportunity in the leaving cert and reward those who do best. Equality of opportunity not equality regardless of the result.

Eoghan how is it fair and equitable if I earn a six figure salary and have paid to get my daughter tutored to do better than she would otherwise and she’s rewarded with a privilege in student accommodation. The accommodation should be awarded on a basis of achievement and socio-economic background.

Boganity I think you are making the classic mistake of confusing republicanism with communism

I’m astounded at your comment, since when is fairness and equity communism…god help us all if that view has even modest currency in the community.

Campus accommodation is much more expensive than laving off campus.

But tends to be much better quality

The most socially deprived are rewarded with extra points through the hear scheme, upwards of 6 thousand euro of a grant, no registration fees etc etc. For the poor people who don’t qualify for these aids but who are nonetheless struggling to pay for their children’s education there is nothing. Maybe we should seek parity with the (on paper) socially deprived !!

Don’t forget, that they can change courses for free, while it will cost us thousands to do likewise!

How do you define “best courses”?

Typical of some people. Is there no place for the average joe who probably has to work twice as hard to achieve their goal?

Dee4 by name, D4 by nature.

No it’s not reasonable at all. For a start many students choose courses that don’t need anywhere near 500 points and so don’t break their backs working for things they don’t need. My nephew is a case in point. Very high IQ and spits out As with no effort. He knew what he want to do knew what points he needed and gave himself a very comfortable margin and is likely to walk into his course . He is very clever is using his recourses on only what he needs. Getting very results is often the result of lots of private tuition and financial outlay by the parents who can afford it .so it’s look after the students who already probably had all the benefits thrown at the them to get 500 points. Yeah keep middle coddling them and you will have a generation of professionals who gave no idea what struggle is and that they should get everything by Devine right . PLEASE? That’s how we got our current generation of bankers and politicians who ran this country into the ground .

There are some that do and there some who don’t you need to be realistic in this life. I know people who were top of their years in secondary school who dropped out after first year in uni.

‘more likely’ or ‘all’, which is it, Stephen?

@Catherine. I disagree. Those from poorer socio-economic backgrounds won’t fail simply because they won’t get the opportunity to achieve. A big difference. However those, like me, from poorer backgrounds who do try, generally succeed because they’ve had to fight to overcome their circumstances, to even get to the starting line.

I’m not belittling your achievements smiley well done to you but your experience is not everyone’s. I was poor growing up and our local school was dire. Our teachers for the most part were dire bar some wonderful exceptions . ( Mr Costello this means you Sir thank you , ) I was in one if the top two classes and honestly it was still impossible to ask questions with other students . Teachers had no interest. Our English teacher used to read the paper for the whole class and ignore us. I used to try to study in a room shared with my sisters and it was bedlam . Honestly all of us siblings did achieve but only later on as mature students. University lecturers don’t care about your background . Do the work be interested and they will help. Admittedly teachers today are a lot better than when I was at school and it was a different time but there are still obstacles that are hard to overcome don’t kid yourself on that.

@smiley. Have to disagree. Over the past 2/3 years I have had in depth experience of the huge increase in private study centres and grinds. Parents who can afford to are regularly paying out in excess of €100 a week. Kids are not studying independently but using 1 to 1 tuition to be told the answers. The ability to pay for this is leading to a situation where mediocre but wealthy kids are achieving higher grades simply because they can pay. Leave the rewarding of genuine achievement until they are in university and away from the grind culture.

They get preference because with 500 points, you have most likely secured a place in the college you have applied to for accommodation and will therefore be more certain to need it. It’s not some stupid supremacy conspiracy. This means they will move through the long waiting lists more quickly if they have slightly more definite numbers. They still have to pay the same amount for the accommodation.