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Fergus O'Dowd spoke for the government in the Dáil today. Screengrab/Oireachtas TV

Minister nominated for 'brass neck of the year' as TDs row about Seanad reform

Fianna Fáil’s proposal to overhaul the upper house will be opposed by the government.

MEMBERS OF THE travelling community, the elderly, people with disabilities, and representatives from the sporting and art worlds should be voted into the Seanad, according to the latest proposal to reform the upper house.

Today Fianna Fáíl’s Seanad Reform Bill 2014 went through the ‘second stage’ in the Dáil, but the government has said it will oppose the measures in the Bill.

Fianna Faíl leader Micheál Martin said that at the core of the Bill is “the objective of making our political system more democratic and more accountable”.

He noted that events of this week, from Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan’s resignation to revelations of phone tapping at Garda stations, had “shown yet again how badly we need real reform”.

‘Cynical’

Martin accused the government of staging “the most cynical poster campaign ever held” before last year’s referendum on the future of the Seanad.

He said that the only way “to rebuild a parliament worthy of public support is to listen to the demand for substantive reform”.

The Bill proposes extending Seanad voting rights on the higher education panel to graduates of all recognised universities and colleges, and looks into extending the franchise to Irish people living abroad.

‘Disgraceful’

Independent TD Finian McGrath supported the Bill, saying that the government had engaged in a “disgraceful campaign” to promote the abolition of the Seanad.

He said that there needed to be “new and fresh talent” in the Seanad and supported the proposal of voting in currently “ignored” representatives of people with disabilities, the elderly and the Travelling community.

He described the elderly as “the backbone of Irish society” and said that Travellers are “marginalised and experience racism every single day” – something that “should not be tolerated in any democratic country”.

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Speaking on behalf of the government, Junior Minister Fergus O’Dowd said the coalition did not support the Bill and refuted “the content, the tone and the hypocrisy” of Martin (above).

He accused Fianna Fáil of engaging in “lame duck politics” and told Martin he was “noted by your absence rather than your presence” in the Dáil.

When this comment was met with shouts from some Fianna Fáil members, O’Dowd said: “I appreciate that your presence here is rare so perhaps you want to be recorded on the sound system”.

‘Brass neck of the year’

McGrath stood up for Fianna Fáil and nominated O’Dowd for the “brass neck of the year”, saying “over the last few days your silence was deafening”.

O’Dowd claimed that “many of the provisions in the Bill are incomplete or would be unworkable”. He noted that there would be a huge cost in extending the postal vote and said there was “no detailed provisions in the Bill for counting the votes”.

He added that members of the Seanad needed to “play a key role in improving legislative changes before enactment” and be given time “to clarify any issues” they have.

Sinn Féin TD Seán Crowe said the Bill won’t “fix the system”. “I don’t think it’s radical enough,” he stated.

Fine Gael TDs Frank Feighan and Eoghan Murphy also spoke on the Bill, Feighan praising the Taoiseach for nominating independent voices to the Seanad three years ago, while Murphy used the opportunity to raise some of his own Dáil reform proposals.

Independent TD Maureen O’Sullivan said that Seanad to date has been “used by political parties .. as a training ground for prospective TDs or a retiring ground” and noted that all of the reform bills put forward had the necessary common goal of “widening the electorate”.

Last month environment Minister Phil Hogan published the government’s Seanad Reform Bill last month which proposes to widen the electorate to all third-level graduates.

Background: Fianna Fáil: Our Seanad bill is ‘fundamental reform that people deserve’

Explainer: How does a Bill become a law?

Read: Plan to increase Seanad voters by 650,000 published

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34 Comments
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    Mute Eoin something
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:02 PM

    Why are travellers considered a vulnerable group again? Most people feel vulnerable in the presence of them

    280
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    Mute Jimmy Kearney
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    Mar 28th 2014, 2:08 PM

    Polemic for green thumbs

    11
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    Mute RonanM
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:05 PM

    FF and reform have being an excellent combination before. Such a crap bill from them.

    66
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    Mute Michael J Connolly
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    Mar 28th 2014, 7:20 PM

    Ronan, sound like one of those totally biased comment that is of course unless you have fully read the proposed bill which from the tone of your comment you have not but then you would say you have even if you did not. Good that you recognise that FF and reform are an excellent combination though!

    2
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    Mute StephenEganPolitics
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:09 PM

    Reform of the Seanad is a waste of time and energy. We need electoral and Dail reform. Reform of the Seanad would just be an exercise in “mass distraction”.

    63
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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Mar 28th 2014, 5:23 PM

    I think that’s finally sinking in for people now. Party list or MMR would eliminate the parish pump, public financed elections and lobbying reform would eliminate power of special interests. Giving the president reference to the people power for bills on his own would cut down on uturns and broken promises post election. Tinkering with the senates not going to get us anywhere the bad decisions that got this state into trouble were made in the dail and the cabinet and at closed functions with special interests that’s where reform needs to b focused.

    4
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    Mute John Hartigan
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:00 PM

    There will be plenty of reform very soon this gov has to and will go to the park very soon

    60
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    Mute Were Jammin
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:11 PM

    The absolute cynicism and contempt with which FG conducted the Seanad referendum was a disgrace .You would think kenny would have learnt a touch of humility from the kicking he took from voters, but as we’ve seen since the GSOC debacle, he’s still conducting himself the same way.

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    Mute offtheball
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    Mar 28th 2014, 6:33 PM

    The way I look at it is that it wasn’t Kenny who took the kicking but rather the voters themselves who are on the receiving end – we have to pay for it and, possibly worse still, put up with this constant stream of proposed reforms that will never happen. We made our bed – I just wish that now we’d lie quietly in it.

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    Mute Iris Glas
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    Mar 28th 2014, 1:09 PM

    ‘currently “ignored” representatives of people with disabilities, the elderly and the Travelling community’ Aren’t the elderly already well represented? given the age profile of our public representatives?

    46
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    Mute Pickart Solny
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:23 PM

    There is not one Tasmanian in the Dáil or Seanad. I think this is a disgrace, How can we sleep at night.

    33
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    Mute joe stodge
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:02 PM

    Why only those select groups, why not every ethnic minority, race and fungi the dolphin, sure he’s nearly human.
    The Seanad is fine as is.

    Stupid idea is stupid.

    28
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    Mute White Fang
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    Mar 28th 2014, 1:28 PM

    “The Seanad is fine as it is”.

    Thanks for the laugh.

    19
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    Mute Sheik Yahbouti
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    Mar 28th 2014, 3:20 PM

    The Seanad IS fine as it is – a totally irrelevant home for the semi-retired and the unelectable – paid for by me and thee. What could be finer?

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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Mar 28th 2014, 5:17 PM

    The irish electorate have a wonderful way of mentally inserting things into referendum proposals that aren’t there..the senate one was about reform Lisbon was about abortion, gays, enshrining or destroying neutrality depending who you spoke to. Reform was NOT on the ballot paper. Your choice was keep a chamber of wannabes n hasbeens or loose it, u decided to keep it, under there logic that this chamber, which had never once checked govt power and had never used one of its main powers of review, article 27, should be kept…because its a critical check on govt power.
    Many of us tried desperately before the election to explain the illogic of that to the public and tried to tell you that they would never give u real reform but you would not listen. Remember that in 2016 when the candidate nobody in your area voted for suddenly has the title ‘senator’ and a seat in parliament anyway. You made an adult choice and didnt heed warnings that it was a bad one. Learn from it.

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    Mute offtheball
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    Mar 28th 2014, 6:27 PM

    Well said Ryan!!

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    Mute Jim Hartnett
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    Mar 29th 2014, 6:03 PM

    Not true. The government were trying to sneak in other reforms as well and these were also rejected.

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:10 PM

    Talking about his Mehole again

    25
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    Mute Robert McAuliffe
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:21 PM

    Typical politician’s this is designed not to represent the people of this country but to look good in Europe

    22
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    Mute James Nolan
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:57 PM

    I really hope #BrassNeckNomination doesn’t become a thing…

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    Mute Kate Ellen Egan
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    Mar 28th 2014, 2:10 PM

    I hope it does James,,a monthly ‘brass neck’ winner should be announced , the preceding months recipient could hand over a trophy to the incoming ….see who gets it most often …

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    Mute dave mike dolan
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    Mar 28th 2014, 6:09 PM

    Gerry Adams can be the brass neck patron

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:17 PM

    Marginalised groups including Eu foreign nationals living and working in ireland should be represented inthe Seanad particularly as they are not given the opportunity to vote in Irish elections.

    14
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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Mar 28th 2014, 5:06 PM

    You see my point everyone has their own ideas and all the people with them hate the other guys ideas..senate reform is a mirage it can’t b done we should just get rid of it. That doesn’t mean giving the govt more power (the senates never been a barrier to govt power, by design) we can giver further review powers to the president let them refer major proposals that were not in msnefestos or that break election pledges to referendum on presidents absoloutr discretion. There u have a major check on govt without need for an extra 60unelected politicos and the cost of keeping them

    3
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    Mute Pickart Solny
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    Mar 28th 2014, 12:20 PM

    The Shinners probably want gun men representatives in the chamber.

    10
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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Mar 28th 2014, 4:47 PM

    I spent months being lambasted on this site for telling you over and over again they would not give you real reform and you were being duped. This is a case where I hate to have been right.
    I told you a second chamber can only be one of two things a source of deadlock or rubber stamp as all the proposals show. I told you everybody has their own vision of what reform looks like and all those visions contradict each other. Most importantly I told you that it’s not in the nature of any power structure in this case the government to hand over a potential barrier 2 or limit of its own power. The government would have been crazy from a political perspective to create a radically reformed senate that could be controlled by the opposition and cause US style gridlock, it was never going to happen.
    Go back and look up what I said hear me now quote me later.. I told you they would do some tinkering with the university seats and call that reform because it does not require a referendum.
    All you did by voting no, and noamount of thumbs down will change this fact, was give the people who you reject in 2016 a six figure salary and seat in Parliament anyway. Senate reforms a mirage and a distraction from the real changes that are needed in our political system.

    7
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    Mute Martin Smith
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    Mar 28th 2014, 4:32 PM

    labour party and fg will be thankful the seanad will be there for the seat losers to have some were to go after next election

    5
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    Mute D J Moore
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    Mar 28th 2014, 3:48 PM

    I think the important point in this bill – which isn’t referred to above – is that the election of the bulk of senators will be opened up to the general electorate.

    In other words, we can get to choose who is elected to the vocational panels – ie Education, Commerce, etc.

    It mightn’t be total reform – you would need a referendum to go further – but it’s a step in the right direction….

    4
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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Mar 28th 2014, 4:55 PM

    Don’t be so naive this issue will fall off the radar and never be heard from again the senate is still with these changes a toothless rubber stamp that can’t block bills and if it could that would cause gridlock, there’s no way to win on this issue. So what if the public has vague input kinda sorta…u really think vocational experts will come out of this? PFF it will b the same tired old Greg suits as always. Besides we already have a chamber we elect properly so why would we need another one. The objective of the political establishment here is to tinker around the edges enough to shut reformers up all while avoiding real change and they’re all falling for it.
    The Irish electorate always claim to not trust their political leaders but time after time they swollow their horse s1hit and say how tasty it is.

    3
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    Mute Mark O'Hagan
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    Mar 28th 2014, 2:04 PM

    Can FF not accept the verdict of the electorate who voted to keep it as it is?

    4
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    Mute Michael Farrelly
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    Mar 28th 2014, 3:06 PM

    That is an absolutely false statement, Mark.
    The public voted on it’s abolishment and were not given a reform option.
    Having said that I don’t see much reform in the FF proposal. More like window dressing.

    5
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    Mute Ryan Carroll
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    Mar 28th 2014, 5:01 PM

    FF sat there for 15 years without reforming it as reform reports piled up. It can’t b reformed everyone has their own ideas and a consensus is not possible cos those ideas are so different.
    I wish the electorate would forget what they learned in civics and CSPE and focus on how real world politics works. The kinda change most want.,a mirror of the fail with some differences around the edges would b expecting the govt to hand over a barrier to their own power..they won’t..FF don’t want such a limit when they’re in next time either which is why their proposals not serious. They want their bills to sail thru nice and quick without backbenchers offering ammrendments and picking them apart.
    The big reforms we need are around election financing and the presidency this is a distraction.

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    Mute Mark O'Hagan
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    Mar 28th 2014, 10:34 PM

    Michael, I don’t see how my statement is absolutely false. The choice was to either abolish the Seanad or not. People chose not to abolish it – thereby maintaining the status quo.

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    Mute Kate Ellen Egan
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    Mar 28th 2014, 2:18 PM

    One of the most important issues we have to resolve hasn’t even been discussed by our politicians while all this ‘He said this, I said that ‘ stuff is going on here, 90,000 homes need to be built , what scares me now are the salivating solicitors who’ll get millions while the homes remain unbuilt …

    4
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    Mute David Kavanagh
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    Mar 28th 2014, 3:10 PM

    That’s a competitive category in Leinster House

    3
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