Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
Updated at 10.27pm
RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR Putin called his American counterpart Barack Obama today to discuss a US proposal on resolving the crisis in Ukraine, the White House has said.
“President Obama suggested that Russia put a concrete response in writing” to the proposal presented by US Secretary of State John Kerry to Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in The Hague this week, White House spokesman Jay Carney said in a statement, adding the two diplomats would meet soon to discuss the next steps.
It comes as the UN secretary general says that Russian President Vladimir Putin assured him he had no intention of orchestrating further incursions into Ukrainian territory.
Ban Ki-moon told reporters after briefing the UN Security Council on his recent talks in Moscow and Kiev that Putin told him “he had no intention to make any military move.”
He responded to a question on whether Putin gave him any assurances that Russia was not planning to go into southern and eastern Ukraine after the annexation of Crimea.
Putin told Ban “that he had no intention to make any military move. I should also tell you at the same time that President Putin also expressed his concern about some extreme radical elements and any such movement along the border lines,” the UN chief said.
“The emotions were running high and tensions have been very highly charged. Therefore my immediate priority was to urge the leaders of both (sides) to engage in direct dialogue.”
He added: “I also urged the leaders of the Ukrainian authorities to address all the domestic concerns which they may have which may also create concerns to the Russian side.”
But “he (Putin) assured me he would have no such intention” on further military initiatives, Ban said.
‘Concerned’
The UN chief also said he was “deeply concerned” that international divisions, with Russia and the West pitted against each other, could harm response to other conflicts and emergencies.
“At this time of heightened tension even small sparks can ignite larger flames of unintended consequences,” Ban said.
Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin named no names but took a swipe at Western members of the Security Council, accusing them of whipping up an impression of imminent Russian aggression.
Ten to 12 countries had participated in four inspections of Russian military troops, he told reporters.
“I’m sure if they saw something dramatic they would have raised hell over it immediately,” Churkin said.
“There is no worry of any Russian initiative against Ukraine.”
First posted at 9.41pm
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
“At least 24 hours before a termination is carried out, the TDs want it included in the law that a medical practitioner be obliged to perform ultrasound imaging of the foetus and recording of the foetal heart tone.”
Straight out of the american religious fundamentalist playbook.
Our women deserve better than to have the jeebus folk stateside writing our legislation
@The Risen: yep, carbon copy of USA. Same place the pro life groups get funding from
@The Risen: I’ll hazard a guess and say that if these guys campaign donations under the reportable limit were examined you’d find quite a few coming from the US…
@Barry Somers: it was shown after her referendum that the pro abortion groups had double the number of foreign unregulated ads compared to the pro life. Our ‘impartial’ unbiased media forgot to run those articles though.
@eric nelligan: but you could still post a link to the information….
@The Risen:
Everyone seems to have missed that the 9TD’s were not referring to miscarriages.
@The Risen: stateside where there is 600k abortions a year. Be careful what you wish for.
@prop joe: Stateside, there are 325 million people
@Aine O Connor: a miscarriage is an abortion (spontaneous as opposed to medically induced).
@The Risen: 1 in 5 pregnancies. That’s about 12k abortions in irish numbers.
There is absolutely no purpose in this beyond shaming and guilt tripping and trying to make already vulnerable women even more traumatised.
@Maggie Elizabeth Walsh: a mindset that also was happy to shame woman and lock them away in homes in our history.
These people haven’t gone away.
@Barry Somers: 100% correct there Barry…
@Maggie Elizabeth Walsh: the biggest trauma is having an abortion in the first place many live with regret depression afterwards . Im anti abortion im an atheist but i beleive its wrong to destroy a human life . Cibtraception is widely available and fir those who do become pregnant real help support understanding is what is needed not abortion
@Bernadette Fitzpatrick: Is the best judge of whats ‘needed’ not the woman herself?
@Bernadette Fitzpatrick: For some but not for others. The question is when does life truly begin, at conception or when there’s brain activity? Some would agree with you r definition and others wouldn’t. Those who don’t agree with you also don’t consent to be told what they can and can’t do with their bodies by those they don’t agree with. Fortunately for them, their democratic voice has been heard and they now have autonomy. Everyone else is free not to abort as they see fit.
@Bernadette Fitzpatrick: would that be the real help and support that pro life groups offered woman for the 30 years abortions were illegal?
Oh wait, that never happened.
Instead the same people that wanted abortions to be illegal were against contraception and are still against a modern and progressive sex education programme in all our schools.
At the end of the day we as a country have spoken on this matter, more people voted to repeal the 8th then voted to addict to our constitution.
Now its our job to support woman and couples regardless of their decision. We should not be shaming them or trying to make them criminals again!
@Maggie Elizabeth Walsh: No harm in cremating the remains if it prevents this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_k1d0dt2ac
If they only showed such compassion to those ill, frail and vulnerable on hospital trolleys. I’ve had 3 miscarriages where I flushed the remains down the toilet. Am I an unfeeling person, hell no. Will they be implementing the same for the thousands of D&Cs that happen in maternity hospitals. Just seems like an opportunity to shame those who undertake an abortion.
@Markonline: I’m sure you did not mean the way that statement may come across.
@Dan: it is what it is, it’s the beauty of the written word…
@Dan: I’m sure they did mean it.
Since the majority of the terminations will be using pills to induce a miscarriage, how would this even be possible or practical? And what are they at least pretending is the reason to do an ultrasound? I know that the actual reason is to try to make the woman, who might be in a vulnerable emotional state, to feel guilty or that she is doing something wrong. I know that is the real reason, but are they not even bothered to come up with a fake reason to try and cover up their intentions?
@The Bob: they want woman to scub the remains out of the toilet. That’s the only way it will be practical.
Of course it’s wrong to class abortions as more special then other types of miscarriages. If they want to claim the fetus should be buried then this must apply to every fetus regardless of if its 1 day or 8 weeks.
So using these TDs flawed logic we clearly must make it a criminal offense for any woman having a miss carriage to not bury the remains of the fetus.
Of course just to make sure it’s not an illegal abortion why not have a gardai investigation too eh?
These TDs want to make woman criminals no matter what, but we the people of Ireland did not vote for any woman to be a criminal for having an abortion.
@The Bob:
The reason for an ultrasound is to protect the woman and the GP , if she thought she was 12 weeks or less and it turned out that she was say 16 weeks , the pills would make her miscarry. At this stage she would need to be in a hospital as she will need medical attention urgently. She and the GP would also be breaking the law as an abortion is illegal after 12 weeks except in certain circumstances.
A remimder as to when there was dancing and cheering in the Castle yard in Dublin on the day Referendum was passed Sickening scenes .
on the day that was in it.
@Scottyal: it was a great day for women everywhere in this country.
@Dublinguy2013: Not so much for unborn babies though.
@Lovely weather: * Fetus
@Lovely weather: Did you ask them? Would be hard considering they don’t exist. Who appointed you to speak on their behalf?
@Dublinguy2013: ?
@Lovely weather: these are not babies, they are a group of cells the size of a bean.
@Dublinguy2013: I have noticed a huge amount of men jumping in with answers rather than the women . But to respond to your comment what is a great day when a baby that a mother has inside her wont see the light of day not in g
This world anyway
@colm, you are just a bunch of cells the size of a large pumpkin…so good arguement there.
@Markonline: Ok You all who who are for the repeal here on the Journal If your parents made the decision not to go ahead with pregnancy of which you are the baby you would not be around now . Think about that for a while and see will you make the same comment as you
@Scottyal: If our parents chose not to go ahead with the pregnancy, we would not be here to read and consider your statement in the first place, so try replacing the emotive silliness with a logically sound question.
@Scottyal: “This world anyway”
And the prolifers say they are not religious.. Grow up FFS
@The Risen: I must agree, I’ve no idea if scotty was having a go at me or not…
@Scottyal: I’d be fine with that. My emotional state would be….nil, because I wouldn’t exist.
What an utterly stupid argument.
@Scottyal: That was such a joyous day.
I got pregnant after just to have an excuse to have a celebratory abortion.
That was the most intense abortion I’ve ever had – and I’ve had DOZENS
@Scottyal:we wouldn’t be witness to such a ridiculous question.
@Rob Cahill: Prolifers, as you call people who don’t agree with your view, don’t come as a group. Some are religious, some are not. Either way they are entitled to an opinion without being insulted.
@marg fitzgerald: is anyone anywhere actually ‘entitled’ to have their opinions respected regardless as to whether or not they’ve been judged as stupid? And if my opinion is that your opinion is stupid how do we decide who triumphs?
*Entitled: believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
@The Risen: absolute state of your profile having pearse on it but supporting murdering the unborn,, the 1916 lads would be ashamed
@Fenian: You realise that the 1916 proclamation included a declaration of civil liberty, yes?
@Scottyal: Thinking is not their forte.
@The Risen: I see from your statement that your arrogance doesn’t diminish in any way.
@The Risen: I would hazard a guess he didn’t have abortion in mind, but then again he was pretty much hung up on the “Blood Sacrifice “.
@marg fitzgerald: naaaah. They can be insulted. If they open their mouths and say the excremental nonsense these nine shitehawks have clearly been paid to say. I’d say it’s incumbent on us smart folks to have at them, generally. Defending humanity from religious nutjobs is a GOOD thing.
@Scottyal: especially for those who needed a medical termination without the fear of firing from sepsis or other complications because a doctor refused to do in fear of being jailed as was the threat.
Mostly men.
How about we stop telling women what to do lads?
It’s been millions of years, they’re equal or sometimes superior to us, let them make their own decisions. They don’t need more laws or regulations that differentiate them foisted upon them.
@sequoia: They want, they want, they want. They don’t want women selling an aborted foetus, yet are happy to use the images of them when it suits their purposes. A bunch of hypocrites, if these twisted auld men don’t want abortions, that’s fine. Don’t have them, but don’t dare presume to preach their outdated religious views to others who don’t agree with them.
@sequoia: what planet u on lad?
@Peter Mc: jog on
Michael Collins whose wife was granted a barring order from the district court because her TD husband used violence against her, wants women prosecuted ? The mind boggles .
This is a part of legal manoeuvring in the US to recognise the foetus as a baby and ban abortion in the future on that basis. Sad to see Catholics of principle against abortion get into bed with prosperity gospel and extreme right wing social engineers and ape their ideas.
Perhaps these TDs could come up with their own ideas and leave the American imports alone?
@Crom Cruach: the fetus is a baby. Have u ever seen a scan at 12 weeks with the child moving around?
@Mumpsimus: Nope. 12 week old children are outside the womb so will not show up on a scan.
@Mumpsimus: Those who don’t agree with you do not consent to being constrained by your beliefs and as such will act in accordance with their conscience. You are also free to act in accordance with your conscience and not abort as you see fit.
People are simply tired of having their lives ruined by those who refuse to think beyond their own understanding of the world.
@Crom Cruach:
What… a move to try and recognise a human foetus as a baby??? Wow what a mad concept.
@Ismise Máire: embryo,foetus,****neonate,infant**** toddler,teenager,young adult,adult,geriatric <- you recognise those different stages,yes ? Would you consider it daft to recognise a toddler as a teenager ?
@Ismise Máire: no madder than trying to get a fetus recognised as a pineapple. A fetus is not a fully formed person and all the potential the world doesn’t give it the sane value as a fully formed actual person who happens to be pregnant.
@Crom Cruach:
A baby born at 26 weeks has to be registered in this country by law and can be issued with a birth certificate. A stillborn baby over 24 weeks has also to be registered and can be issued with a stillbirth certificate.
A baby born 26 weeks who dies shortly after birth , a birth certificate and a death certificate can one applied for by the parents.
@Aine O Connor: 23 week is the limit of viability, so what’s your point?
@Mumpsimus: have you seen a woman scream with pain because a doctor refused to treatment for sepsis for fear of imprisemt.
8 men out of the 9. Didn’t Danny Healy Rae say recently outside the Dáil that “we all like lovely looking women” on the news. This is a sick and morbid idea, these TD’s should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
Creating a non person so that legally we can act without morality is the beginning of all crimes against humanity ! 56 million yearly , this is not religious fundamentalism and it’s not progress and FairPlay to those 9 TD s
@lapsy pa: Go away nut job
@Rob Cahill: explain why ?
@lapsy pa: Because you said something that makes Rob uncomfortable.
@lapsy pa: Those 9 eejits are ignoring the will of the people and only on an attention seeking drive to look oppressed and ignored. What they say about empty vessels is ringing true here. Science, medicine and facts all show the impossibility of implementing such an idiotic amendment. Totally impossible to implement and enforce. There’s many more pressing issues in this country than arranging funerals for a foetus.
@Patrick O’Farrell: these 9 ejets might realise that science can’t explain consciousness and are trying to create as little harm as possible . I think its commendable .
@Will: No because they said something stupid. I am very comfortable thanks.. Because I myself and Pro life.. I’m just not so arrogant as to push that belief on everyone else.
@lapsy pa: A foetus up to 3 mths is the size of a bean. With the best will in the world I’m sure none of those TD’s can explain it either. They’re putting this amendment to the floor knowing it’s impossible to prove, implement and enforce. Absolute waste of parliamentary time and misuse of tax payers money. These nine should be more concerned about the actual living people who are homeless, hungry and poverty stricken by the policies of this government, not wasting time on silly and time wasting amendments. They should be solving the real issues that actually matter to people who actually live in this country, not wasting time in stuff like this!
@lapsy pa: also the fact that you’re hiding your profile suggests you’re just a spammer.
@Patrick O’Farrell: just avoiding the mob mentality
@lapsy pa: be different so, as is your right. I won’t force you to put up your profile pic same way as I wouldn’t force a woman through a pregnancy against her will or medical necessity.
@Rob Cahill: Can you argue your point without resorting to schoolboy insults?
@Patrick O’Farrell: but you’re informing me of the consequences of my decision none the same
@Patrick O’Farrell: the 9 egits as you call them do have a right to object
the last time i checked we were still a democracy
@Fenian: fine object but object on reasonable grounds not with idiotic ideas or amendments they’re proposing. They are disrespecting democracy. At the referendum everyone knew what they were voting. Trying to make a criminal offence of not having a funeral for a foetus is impractical and time wasting.
@lapsy pa: well if you can’t see the logic I’m not wasting my time explaining about being forced to do something and allowing people to decide for themselves. I trust people to do what is right for them as I trust myself to make the best decisions for myself.
@Patrick O’Farrell: even though you wouldnt understand whats happening , would you like abortion forced upon you ?
@lapsy pa: nothing is being forced, it’s a personal choice for people. These 9 out of touch idiots are trying to remove personal choices from people. Democracy in operation means its allowable. 3 mths by choice and later than 3 mths only by medical necessity.
@Patrick O’Farrell: your logic might be flawed and unfortunately you’ve no evidence to back it up , taking afirst breath of air , developing a nervous system or a heart beating aren’t signs of consciousness , cause nobody actually knows what consciousness is or when it is , we just know it exists . You’re happy to force a decision on what might be a concious entity and because it can’t speak for itself it doesn’t bother you . At least the 9 tds want it to be an informed decision and a bit of respect shown after . Applying a rule that extinguishes the life of 56million babies or foetuses a year (depending on your opinion) to protect the . 001% of cases that are rape , incest or fatal abnormalities so that you can have “freedom of choice” isn’t logical at all . If that were logical there would be no cars , no roads , no ladders , no kitchen utensils , no chicken bones etc etc
@Patrick O’Farrell: completely illogical clouded thinking that you are using to explain away poor choices ! Not the same as choice at all , you have the choice not to get pregnant or to get someone pregnant . Or maybe we should make legislation to prevent people getting pregnant at all at all , maybe a vaccination to pregnancy altogether ? just to protect someone’s right to choose not to have a baby when they don’t feel like it ! Cause that is what this legislation does whether you like it or not or want to explain it upside down and inside out to yourself
@lapsy pa: you really don’t grasp the concept of free choice and someone being able to decide what’s best for themselves. Nobody is forced to have an abortion. They’re not mandatory! I trust women to make decisions that are right for them. It’s a choice. Allow people to make their own decisions. The human race hasn’t been wiped out by abortions so no need to exaggerate the story. This is about the 9 TDs not wanting to allow choice, they didn’t even want referendum in the first place. These TDs are showing a massive disrespect to democracy and I hope each of them are given the heave by their electorates. Democracy works when it’s respected. The 9 of them don’t seem to respect it or want to deliver the people’s wishes as was they were given in the referendum. They are not representatives.
@lapsy pa: you’re wishing to inflict your beliefs, that your entitled to hold personally, on the whole country. We are not a dictatorship, we still live in democracy, for now. Constitutional change is by the people for the people, politicians must respect that irrespective of their personal beliefs.
@Patrick O’Farrell: the constitution isn’t logic
@Patrick O’Farrell: neither is popular opinion
@lapsy pa: the constitution is reflective of the people ideas, hopes and wishes for society. Logical or otherwise. Your idea of logic and mine is obviously different. This topic was originally about the pettiness of the 9 TDs who wish to defy the wishes of the electorate, the same people who didn’t even want the electorate to have a say in a referendum. Their attempts now to criminalize women is disgraceful and anti democratic. Mattie McGrath, The Healy Rae’s, Lowry, and their ilk in this group of anti democratic TDs should resign en masse if they feel it’s such point of principle that is against all their principles and moral beliefs. The people of Ireland spoke very clearly what their wishes are. These 9 petty politicians are defying and ignoring the democratic wishes of the people.
@Patrick O’Farrell: but that’s not logic , so you’re either making a logical argument or a democratical legislative argument ?
@lapsy pa: it’s logical to follow the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland. Everyone knew what they were voting for in May not the guff that these 9 TDs are trying to pull off. They’re attempting to ignore democracy and therefore they are anti democratic. There’s logic for you. They don’t want anyone that disagrees with their niche beliefs and want to inflict their beliefs on every one. That’s attempted dictatorship, Mattie and the 2 Healy-Rae’s as a triumvirate to lead Ireland back to the 1950’s!!
@lapsy pa: it’s logical to follow the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland. Everyone knew what they were voting for in May not the guff that these 9 TDs are trying to pull off. They’re attempting to ignore democracy and therefore they are anti democratic. There’s logic for you. They don’t want anyone that disagrees with their niche beliefs and want to inflict their beliefs on every one. That’s attempted dictatorship, Mattie and the 2 Healy-Rae’s as a triumvirate to lead Ireland back to the 1950’s!!
@lapsy pa: it’s logical to follow the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland. Everyone knew what they were voting for in May not the guff that these 9 TDs are trying to pull off. They’re attempting to ignore democracy and therefore they are anti democratic. There’s logic for you. They don’t want anyone that disagrees with their niche beliefs and want to inflict their beliefs on every one. That’s attempted dictatorship, Mattie and the 2 Healy-Rae’s as a triumvirate to lead Ireland back to the 1950’s!!
@lapsy pa: it’s logical to follow the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland. Everyone knew what they were voting for in May not the guff that these 9 TDs are trying to pull off. They’re attempting to ignore democracy and therefore they are anti democratic. There’s logic for you. They don’t want anyone that disagrees with their niche beliefs and want to inflict their beliefs on every one. That’s attempted dictatorship, Mattie and the 2 Healy-Rae’s as a triumvirate to lead Ireland back to the 1950’s!!
@lapsy pa: it’s logical to follow the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland. Everyone knew what they were voting for in May not the guff that these 9 TDs are trying to pull off. They’re attempting to ignore democracy and therefore they are anti democratic. There’s logic for you. They don’t want anyone that disagrees with their niche beliefs and want to inflict their beliefs on every one. That’s attempted dictatorship, Mattie and the 2 Healy-Rae’s as a triumvirate to lead Ireland back to the 1950’s!!
@lapsy pa: it’s logical to follow the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland. Everyone knew what they were voting for in May not the guff that these 9 TDs are trying to pull off. They’re attempting to ignore democracy and therefore they are anti democratic. There’s logic for you. They don’t want anyone that disagrees with their niche beliefs and want to inflict their beliefs on every one. That’s attempted dictatorship, Mattie and the 2 Healy-Rae’s as a triumvirate to lead Ireland back to the 1950’s!!
@lapsy pa: it’s logical to follow the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland. Everyone knew what they were voting for in May not the guff that these 9 TDs are trying to pull off. They’re attempting to ignore democracy and therefore they are anti democratic. There’s logic for you. They don’t want anyone that disagrees with their niche beliefs and want to inflict their beliefs on every one. That’s attempted dictatorship, Mattie and the 2 Healy-Rae’s as a triumvirate to lead Ireland back to the 1950’s!!
@lapsy pa: it’s logical to follow the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland. Everyone knew what they were voting for in May not the guff that these 9 TDs are trying to pull off. They’re attempting to ignore democracy and therefore they are anti democratic. There’s logic for you. They don’t want anyone that disagrees with their niche beliefs and want to inflict their beliefs on every one. That’s attempted dictatorship, Mattie and the 2 Healy-Rae’s as a triumvirate to lead Ireland back to the 1950’s!!
@lapsy pa: it’s logical to follow the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland. Everyone knew what they were voting for in May not the guff that these 9 TDs are trying to pull off. They’re attempting to ignore democracy and therefore they are anti democratic. There’s logic for you. They don’t want anyone that disagrees with their niche beliefs and want to inflict their beliefs on every one. That’s attempted dictatorship, Mattie and the 2 Healy-Rae’s as a triumvirate to lead Ireland back to the 1950’s!!
@lapsy pa: it’s logical to follow the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland. Everyone knew what they were voting for in May not the guff that these 9 TDs are trying to pull off. They’re attempting to ignore democracy and therefore they are anti democratic. There’s logic for you. They don’t want anyone that disagrees with their niche beliefs and want to inflict their beliefs on every one. That’s attempted dictatorship, Mattie and the 2 Healy-Rae’s as a triumvirate to lead Ireland back to the 1950’s!!
@Patrick O’Farrell: here’s some logic for you , not reasoning or opinion ! You , none of the politicians or electorate can say that the foetus/baby has not got self awareness cause it simply is not known where self awareness as in consciousness comes from ! So no the electorate did not know what they were voting for , they voted based on opinion and opinion isn’t fact ! There is a chance they are right but unfortunately it’s not orovable whatsoever !!! By your logic a person can go in and request both their legs amputated and the doctor has to comply with that because that is the persons free choice ! Also by your logic the doctor can bring those legs home and feed it to his Labrador ! By your logic because unrestricted abortion is legislated for , knitting needles , boots or staircases can be used to perform what is a medical procedure ! By your logic a particular man at the turn of the century in Central Europe was doing the right thing because that’s who the people voted for ! And repetitively shouting me down with no cohesion to your argument just makes you sound like a shill !
@lapsy pa: should read awareness but even possibly self awareness
@lapsy pa: sad to think that ideals like this are voicing an opinion considering the church and state created this and other messes that effected many women children families In this country here we are 2018 and they are still doing it that’s what makes horrific.
I was about to say I am sure they would be disposed of in a dignified way. But them remembered we just had a an inquiry to decide if we remove childrens corpses from a septic tank. as if the decision was not an obvious one .
Grandstanding BS that hasn’t a hope of being passed.
If all these politicians want American style legislation then let them sod off an run for government in America because it’s NOT going to happen here. Remember this the next time they’re up for election and leave them back in the bog where they and their views belong!
Vote them OUT at the next election, every sorry one of them.
This is seriously flakey rubbish! Why should we want to make women feel bad about a legal decision they take? Do we now have funerals for bed sheets when a man has a wet dream?
Remember these people at election time. They still don’t understand the word ‘choice’, only their choice. They should a political career in Tanzania as they would fit right in.
They can’t punish them anymore with a lifetime raising an unwanted child so they will try get somethingover the line.. Disgusting human beings.
@Rob Cahill: takes one to know one judging from your posts so far!
I highly doubt this will go through, it’s literally forcing people to do what these few TDs want them to do. Evil.
I was thinking what gob5hites would want this? After I read a Healy Rae’s name I stopped reading.
Soon they will follow the shameful example of our neighbours.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/thousands-of-unborn-foetuses-incinerated-to-heat-uk-hospitals-9212863.html
@eastsmer: didn’t our crowd bury, burn and sell them in Tuam and other places???
@eastsmer: your right.
Clearly we should go back to the good old times.
Force the woman to go to term against her will, make her work for no money and then sell off the baby for a handy profit like a good catholic.
Oh, almost forgot. Also do the catholic duty and cover it all up.
@eastsmer:that practice was stopped.As the MAJORITY (67%) of terminations will be carried out before the 9th week of pregnancy,the pea sized embryo will be inside a big clot of blood.Do you know what usually happens to that pad afterwards ?
@Francis Mc Carthy: gobine
What a deluded bunch! How will the even find a foetus within the first trimester? Practically impossible to implement and impossible to supervise for compliance. These attention seeking TDs should accept the will of the people and medical facts and science. Putting an amendment such as this proves again why these TDs are only a niche and playing only to their traditional voters. The Healy Rae’s, Mattie and their ilk are playing to the anti choice mob and hoping they’ll gather votes for standing up the majority and playing themselves as being oppressed and ignored. Why won’t they accept the will of the voters? Seems only when it suits them to get attention, like being elected! This amendment is a WASTE OF TIME!
Unbelievable
Do these fossil tds expect women to buy a burial plot when seeking a termination. Next they’ll be insisting a religious ceremony is performed
@Caroline Redmond: Shame they don’t go after the religious orders and get the money owed. Or prescute religious order. I don’t think the church and state which created this mess have separated their views hence some of the comments here.its about our choice.
Wow crazy stuff. In time of course they will be cremated to heat the hospital.
@Bernie Roche: Going by the intelligence level on the prolife side I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to play that card. Sick f’#kers.
@Rob Cahill:? This happens in the UK. Aborted fetuses are burned to power the hospital. Nothing to do with the prolifers
@Bernie Roche:It was done in the UK. Try again
@Rob Cahill: The UK government stopped that procedure a few years back.The cat knew that that was stopped.
@Rob Cahill: Do you have to be so nasty & crude?
Sure there wont be any babies aborted.
All the unasked gps will give a pill. The woman takes it unsupervised at home. There are no complications and no mess. Simon garris will waste MINIMUN €12m and meanwhike our 9000+ people on trollies will increase.
Oh unless a gp finds the taking of life wrong.
Or the woman does gave complications like excessive bleeding or reaction to abortion pill.
Or it is downsyndrome human foetus and your 23+ weeks pregnant and perfectly within your right to abort
Or your human foetus has a life limiting condition and you are near full term..
Or when the profit making abortion clinics come in……
@Ismise Máire: its 12 weeks Màire unless medically necessary. That’s the legislation. DS can’t be diagnosed till after week 20 at least.
@Ismise Máire: 1) a pregnancy is aborted.What is removed is either an embryo or a foetus
2) If there is any complications then the woman can go to her local A&E to have the remains removed from her womb
3) There is enough GP’s to carry out this procedure of handing out the abortion pills to the woman
4) You cannot terminate a DS pregnancy
5) FFA pregnancy,,,That is up to the woman and her medical practitioner.
6) Clinics are there to make a profit..
@Ismise Máire: Dont let facts stand in the way of a good rant there!
Idiots, imagining that they’d be burying a baby, not incinerating a butter bean….and to make it an offense not to give it a “dignified” burial. Yes folks, these are Irish politicians that your taxes are paying and this is what they’re fretting about. There’s a lot more they could be worried and indignant about! This is not one of them!!
What an absolutely disgusting thing to do. Dinosaurs trying to pile shame on those already going through hell
The right here in Ireland can try and pull the American playbook all they want. The difference here is we had a referendum on a very specific vision of abortion in Ireland and it received an enormous mandate. It would be undemocratic to start fiddling with it now.
Just fcuk off and lick your wounds. You lost.
Miscarriage is not referenced by the 9 TD’s
Miscarriage is the term used for a fetus up to 24 weeks. The pregnancy is considered viable at around 24 weeks. 90% of babies born at 26 weeks survive and the birth must be registered . Since the limit for a legal abortion is 12 weeks I understood that an ultrasound was necessary to check that the pregnancy was 12weeks or below that. Some women may not be sure or may be irregular. If the pregnancy is further on it will not be permitted unless there is a diagnosis of FFA that the baby will not survive or if the mothers life is in danger . For these tragic cases parents usually name and christen the baby and can choose cremation or a small coffin followed by burial in Family Grave with a simple ceremony if they so wish.
I was interested to know what actually happens to a foetus after an abortion. This article gives an insight https://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/23/what-happens-to-unborn-babies-after-abortion-pathologists-share-the-horrors/
@The Bull McCabe: Totally unbiased source there!
A key amendment that has not been mentioned by this article includes the request for true conscientious objection for health care professionals.
Doctors are being asked to go against their current code of conduct which states “you have a responsibility to care for both patients in pregnancy, the mother and her unborn child”.
According to the proposed legislation, doctors are going to be going to be asked to care for the mother and her unborn child, only where the child is wanted during the first twelve weeks of pregnancy. Similarly, if the child is diagnosed with a disability which will result in an increased risk of the child dying in the first month of their life, doctors will only be asked to care for them if their Mum wishes to keep them- otherwise this child will have no protection under the law until they are completely born (the wording clearly allows for partial birth abortions as the foetus has no protection under the law until it has completely left the birth canal). Firstly, there is no such thing as foetal fatal abnormality- so many kids in Crumlin/ Temple street would have fallen into this category as many conditions are fatal after birth if they are not surgically corrected or medically treated. Furthermore, contrary to all the pre-referendum promises, there will be late term abortions and no requirement for pain relief for these babies during their abortion.
For many doctors who have been trained to have the highest level of care for both patients in pregnancy this is unacceptable. The proposed legislation gives an opt out clause for doctors who do not wish to undertake the abortion, but it is necessary for them to arrange for the “transfer of care of the patient” i.e. to refer the patient for the abortion. This is also unacceptable to many doctors, who object to being involved in the abortion. Why? To understand this better take for example, if the same patient presented to the doctor’s surgery with a mole on her face. If the doctor had referred her to a plastic surgeon who removed the lesion and diagnosed a malignant melanoma that had been successfully treated, the plastic surgeon would say to the patient that the doctor had done her a good turn and the doctor would likely get a bottle of wine from the woman in thanks. Because to refer is to be directly involved and to contribute to care.
It is important to clarify that there is no issue with the doctor providing the patient with her medical records, they are hers after all. The government have stated that they plan to have a HSE resource giving a list of providers of abortion services. Nor is there an issue of the doctor caring for the patient after the abortion, if she has a complication- this is the current ethical requirement for a doctor. Just this week, over 600 GP’s have signed a petition to request an emergency meeting of the Irish College of General Practitioners over this issue. However, there is little movement in the government or media. Why? Because those who promote abortion have the upper hand at the moment and wish to drive those who object to abortion to a position where they have to change their position or leave medicine. This may seem extremely unlikely, however this is stated as an expressed wish in the recently published START Document, a current outline by doctors who wish to promote the implementation of abortion services in Ireland.
The Irish people did not vote to lose their GP’s who hold their deepest held ethical beliefs and professionalism paramount, even to the point of sacrificing their careers. Unfortunately, there are many GP’s, obstetricians, pharmacists, midwifes and nurses who find themselves in this position. In jurisdictions such as New Zealand, where abortion is legal for many years, their doctors, midwives and pharmacists are provided with true conscientious objection. As politicians you have a duty to act justly in the best interests of the people of this country. There is no valid reason not to grant doctors and health care professionals true conscientious objection to referring patients for an abortion. To not do so will make it impossible for many highly trained medical professionals to continue in their roles. It is vital that our politicians show some courage to defend these healthcare professionals, their training and the care that they offer their patients.
@Rory Maguire: Maybe cut down on the free bottles of wine. We all see what that does to priests who drink it daily.
If you are shocked that remains of babies were found in a sewage tank in Tuam then it would seem reasonable to expect you to be shocked to know aborted remains were not treated with dignity. These TDs seem to be trying to give them some dignity.
@Tom Mullally: Well howya bud, you know your name sounds suspiciously like ‘Tom Molloy’. You should contact him, share stories and judge society through mutual religious tinted glasses.
All these TDs should stop this crap. Stop being so right-wing.
@Jim Bradley: Oh, the fascists have joined the platform, abolishing the right to free speech. The true colours are beginning to show.
Are you forgetting that religious fanatics emigrated to settle in America, not for “free speech”, but for the right to impose their narrow beliefs and practices on everyone else? Spare us the lectures.
Women are loosing babies through miscarriage of spontaneous abortion everyday, 365 days a year since the dawn of time. What to do with the partially formed fetaus was never a problem, but in the even of doubt there is always a septic tank in Tuam belonging to the Religious Sisters of Bon Secours, Abuse, Mistreatment and Death than can be used.
@Charles Williams: people get hit by cars , doesn’t mean it’s ok to run people over
Yeah. What a gathering of saints. One or two obvious converts.
Is the risen part of your editorial staff or a protected species on this platform.?
A bunch of pathetic reactionary creeps.
have your say