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Updated at 10.27pm
RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR Putin called his American counterpart Barack Obama today to discuss a US proposal on resolving the crisis in Ukraine, the White House has said.
“President Obama suggested that Russia put a concrete response in writing” to the proposal presented by US Secretary of State John Kerry to Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in The Hague this week, White House spokesman Jay Carney said in a statement, adding the two diplomats would meet soon to discuss the next steps.
It comes as the UN secretary general says that Russian President Vladimir Putin assured him he had no intention of orchestrating further incursions into Ukrainian territory.
Ban Ki-moon told reporters after briefing the UN Security Council on his recent talks in Moscow and Kiev that Putin told him “he had no intention to make any military move.”
He responded to a question on whether Putin gave him any assurances that Russia was not planning to go into southern and eastern Ukraine after the annexation of Crimea.
Putin told Ban “that he had no intention to make any military move. I should also tell you at the same time that President Putin also expressed his concern about some extreme radical elements and any such movement along the border lines,” the UN chief said.
“The emotions were running high and tensions have been very highly charged. Therefore my immediate priority was to urge the leaders of both (sides) to engage in direct dialogue.”
He added: “I also urged the leaders of the Ukrainian authorities to address all the domestic concerns which they may have which may also create concerns to the Russian side.”
But “he (Putin) assured me he would have no such intention” on further military initiatives, Ban said.
‘Concerned’
The UN chief also said he was “deeply concerned” that international divisions, with Russia and the West pitted against each other, could harm response to other conflicts and emergencies.
“At this time of heightened tension even small sparks can ignite larger flames of unintended consequences,” Ban said.
Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin named no names but took a swipe at Western members of the Security Council, accusing them of whipping up an impression of imminent Russian aggression.
Ten to 12 countries had participated in four inspections of Russian military troops, he told reporters.
“I’m sure if they saw something dramatic they would have raised hell over it immediately,” Churkin said.
“There is no worry of any Russian initiative against Ukraine.”
First posted at 9.41pm
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As awful as it is, I think the West just needs to walk away and leave the Islamic world to it’s own devices. The west cannot help and whenever they do they only make things worse.
The sooner oil dependence is a thing of the past the better.
???? Asian – that makes no sense since it is the West who created all the problems over resources!!!
I’d say that is a rather simplistic way of looking at it Oisin. Oil producing nations aren’t giving it away out of the goodness of their heart. The dealer is as bad as the junkie!
Extremely rare moment an American politician tells the truth about the Syrian war.
US Senator We Have Never Done Anything More Loathsome or Despicable Than What Were Doing in Syria.”
Senator Richard Black and Janice Kortkamp discuss the shameful situation in Syria, where the US government is actively arming and funding Al Nusra (Al Qaeda) and “conduits” (“moderates”), blending them together, and then using this model to exterminate the Syrian population.
It should be noted that the mass media machine is seemingly losing its effect, as more and more prominent and senior figures (e.g Robert Fisk) are calling a spade a spade, or a “moderate” a terrorist. It just goes to show that you can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time.
Senator Black : Member of republican party. University of Florida, United States Army War College United States Marine Corps, United States Army.
Read more:
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/07/us-senator-we-have-never-done-anything.html
I would normally agree that the West should just leave it be, there’s no need to be playing politics in Syria particularly, apart from the consistent threat of a genocide if ISIS gain too much territory.
Though it seems that is less likely than it was a while back, we can’t forget that ISIS would have no problem carrying out another Kurdish genocide (or even a Christian one).
Kurdish Peshmerga generals have said they couldn’t hold ISIS without coalition help and I think that until that changes we are obligated to prevent a humanitarian crisis.
Well the U.S. and British elites are certainly obligated as it was they who created the conditions for the rise of ISIS when they invaded and destroyed Iraq in an illegal imperial war.
Can we expect to see Tony Blair and George Bush going toe to toe with the ISIS barbarians?
So, Billy, am I right in saying you do believe we are obligated to help the Kurds, among others, to prevent the extermination of their people?
You say the West contributed to ISIS and we are partly to blame, that’s true, and now we need to protect these people at risk, wouldn’t you say?
Who’s this “we” exactly Malachi?
I and many millions of others were bitterly opposed to the illegal Iraq war and took to the streets in huge numbers to demonstrate against it.
Also it’s interesting that the same elites didn’t feel any obligation to prevent the extermination of the Kurds when it was their ally Saddam Hussein who was killing them.
Ah come on, there’s no need to be pedantic. “We” means the West. I didn’t imply you were supportive of anything, it’s just a phrase.
But I am glad to know that you do support military intervention in this case to prevent the slaughter of thousands of innocents by ISIS, it was unclear before. I don’t think many people would oppose it in this case, maybe I’m wrong.
Malachi,
I’m drawing the distinction between the great majority of ordinary people, the working class, and the capitalist elites that rule over us. Imperial and capitalist wars are never in the interests of the working class as it’s always us who bears the burden of the killing and the dying to advance the cause of those ruling elites. Our real enemies sing the same national anthems as our soldiers.
As for an immediate solution to the stinking mess that Bush and Blair have created. It’s very difficult to know as military intervention like today’s slaughter will only generate more reactionary extremism.The ultimate answer is to give everyone regardless of religion, race etc a real stake in society. We have the resources to provide everyone on the planet with a decent home, healthcare, education etc and a job and so create a secure and peaceful environment for all. When people have something to live for, extremism holds no attraction.
Billy, you talk the talk but unfortunately creating a socialist utopia isn’t going to happen overnight and make extremism disappear before another genocide is carried out by ISIS in the Middle East.
There needs to be an immediate solution rather than a generational one as you’re suggesting if we want to save any lives. Military intervention is the only way of doing this seeing as ISIS do not respond to diplomacy.
As I said Malachi. Military intervention of the type described in the article above will only fuel ISIS. We (the majority working class) would be far better served by a program to rebuild Iraq on a socialist basis to provide everyone with a decent standard of living.
@Billy Mooney Sadam invaded and attacked Iran in a war that cost 2,000,000 lives before Iraq invasion in 2003. And Saddam also invaded Kuwait which triggered off the Iraq war.
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But most important are the facts we now know that Saudi Arabia and Iran colluded together and attacked the US in 9/11/2001 murdering 3,000 civilians.
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The West and the US is under no obligation to anyone but to its citizens and allies to protect its interests.
Unfortunately under Obama in the US, and Hollande in France, they are failing.
Thats interesting Asian, I also thought your comment about ‘walking away’ to be similarly simplistic! We will agree to disagree but the West will never and can never walk away, that is for sure…
Kuwait was supposed to be part of the Iraqi nation (Al-Basrah). Instead the British made it a Protectorate after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire during WWI, and thus continued to exert control and influence, much to the chagrin of the Iraqis.
“The West cannot help”
Help? Since when did we(the West) ever try to ‘help’. Are you new to American foreign policy? It’s not like they’ve changed in the last 70 odd years.
Patrick,
You understand that the West supported Iraq in their war with Iran? And that the Kuwait invasion was 13 years before the U.S and its allies illegally invaded Iraq in 2003? And that the extremist Islamic Saudi regime is supported by the U.S also?
The U.S and its allies have an obligation to stop the brute exploitation of the Middle East for their own strategic gain which inevitably results in the countless deaths among the working class of all the nations involved.
@Billy Mooney………I understand what you as a veteran Yankee-hater is always trying to claim that the US is to blame for Iraq attacking Iran and after that is to blame for invading Iraq and that the liberation of Kuwait by the US is too far back to grant any credit to the US and the US is to blame for everything in the world. All straight out of the anti-West and anti American propaganda books.
As for the welfare of the working class you claim to concerned about the best place for the working class is to belong to a society where there is work. And that is the capitalist Western states where millions of people flee to find work and all those who are prepared to grind away will become successful eventually.
For those who want to try the socialist system try Russia. The average life span is 64 yrs. No pension to look forward to for most.
STFU WallyBilly
So easy for you isn’t it?
Every ‘capitalist’ is a war-monger and every ‘ordinary worker’ is a peace lover.
What a load of bullshyte, as usual
There can hardly be anything more miserable in this world than digging through rubble looking for the bodies of your dead kids that were probably happy playing minutes earlier. It must be just a fcuking horrible experience.
And its happening in more countries that the western media will care to mention!!! Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria……
Yemen is being brutalised by the Saudis and their allies.
They can’t win either way. People want Isis defeated unfortunately you can’t do it without civilian casualties. We all seen the epic disaster that was the second Iraq war and Afghanistan so they should not send in ground troops. Its either air support or nothing.
Be hammered for this but all these #PrayFors are utterly redundant.
Who do they want us to pray to , Allah or God ??
Frankly I find hash tagging an article like a little disrespectful. Hash tagging always seems shallow and vapid and its almost seen as a joke now. #AirStrike #PrayForSyria feels (to me at least) like making light of the situation.
Dead right !!!it’s praying in the name of what ever god that has the world in such a mess
#prayformojo
Allah is God, we share the same God in case you were confused.
For you Fionn!!! That you might even become an excuse for a human some day
Read my comment properly ya clown…
Yup the word terrorist is usually labelled by the victor. The US and Israel are the greatest true terrorists on earth…
No country on Earth has been the victim of more terrorist attacks than Israel going back for decades
Hundreds of HAMAS supporters would love to be suicide bombers in Israel today if only they could get there
Oisin, ever hear of this fella called Hitler? Maybe you want to amend your stupid comment.
And what about the terrorist actions of the KGB which created the PLO which has given rise to Hamas?
Mary no (sane) person would deny what happened to the Jews (and Poles, the disabled,homosexuals etc) under hitler but it in no way excuses what is happening in Israel at the moment. Just because they were once the victims of genocide doesn’t mean they can’t be the terrorists now.
What is happening in Israel at the moment Israel defending itself against its many enemies and Jews being murdered every day in unprovoked attacks
If Israel was France would see much more retaliation
The reality is that Israel is probably the most tolerant nation on the face of the earth despite having to survive in the face of constant provocation from its Arab neighbours from the day of its inception.
Was this Hitler fella Palestinian MaryLou(ny)?
True, the terrorists of 1916 wore British Army uniforms and were illegally occupying Ireland. Those who fought them were Irish patriots. If French man or woman described their own artisans as ‘terrorists’ they would end up dead in a ditch. It’s only in Ireland that those who today benefit from the sacrifices of our Patriots would stoop so low as to describe them as such.
@Oisiin Murray…………Not so at all. Islam is the greatest terror the world has ever know. Its conquest and enslavement of Africa is just one example of a horrific 1400 yr long nightmare for the African people lasting to this very day .
The brutal enslavement and debasement of a whole continent continues tin (Mauritania, where 20% of blacks are still enslaved,Sudan,Darfur)
The sheer savagery that these unfortunate captives of muslim slave -traders had to endure is almost unbelievable.
…;;The African female servants were continuously raped before being sold to households to be used as sex labour. Of springs from the illicit encounters were largely destroyed as unworthy to live. Between 650 CE and 1905 CE, over 20, 000,000 African slaves had been delivered through the Tans-Sahara route alone to the Islamic world. Dr. John Alembellah Azumah in his book: The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa estimates that over 80 million more died en-route. A text from Dr. Azumah books, provides this quote from a Zanzibar observer about the travails of African slaves en-route to slave markets around the Arabic world.
…”So interwoven is slavery with Islam that Islams’ holiest city, Mecca (site of the Haj pilgrimage), was a slave trading capital. Quoting Azumah again, up until the 20th century, Mecca served as the gateway to the Muslim world for slaves brought out of Africa. “It became a custom for pilgrims to take slaves for sale in Mecca or buy one or two slaves while on Haj as souvenirs to be kept, sold or given as gifts….”
https://www.modernghana.com/news/249409/arabs-mortal-hatred-and-enslavement-of-the-black-race.html
@Grey Beard …….Can you elaborate-what is happening in Israel right now?
@David Hogan….. you still on about the same old shuite- Israeli brutality. Someone tries to kill you and you are in a position where you have to stop them and you shoot them. What’s brutal about that?
2 weeks ago a 13 yr old Jewish girl stabbed repeatedly in the back in her bed. The killer was killed. What’s brutal about that. And his actions were applauded by Abass and many Palestinians!You chronic terrorist-apologists never stop whining with the same old childish complaint.
Will it ever stop. Innocents being killed, all in the name of oil, pipelines, money.
It’s not too difficult to see how ISIS are finding it easy to recruit extremists who have an engrained hatred of the west.
True, airstrikes that kill innocents obviously contribute to the fuel that is the fire of radical Islam.
However we must also remember that these groups had no trouble finding members willing to die for them before any innocent lives were taken by US/Western forces. There is more than just that at play.
Funny enough very few of them mention a hatred of the west politically only our way of life and the fact that we do not aspire to their form of Islam.
One might think when your dealing with Theocrats it doesnt matter what you do they love death more than life.
No more bombings,no more killings,keep your armies in your own bloody country,and mind your own business.these atrocities are totally unacceptable to any human being with a conscience,and an ounce of humanity in them.
“Keep your armies in your own countries” is grand as a general principle, yeah, but there are obvious exceptions to this.
When there is a threat of extermination of thousands or even millions of people, like in Bosnia or Rwanada, surely we have to break this general rule to stop this. Bosnia is an example of why military intervention isn’t always a bad thing.
For nearly a decade the US supported Islamist radicals linked to Chechnya, Iran and Saudi Arabia to destabilise the former Yugoslavia. The radicals were also allowed to move further east to Kosovo. By the end of the fighting in Bosnia, there were tens of thousands of Islamist militants in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo; many then moved west to Austria, Germany and Switzerland. And let us not forget that British intelligence had used the al-Muhajiroun group in London to recruit Islamist militants with British passports for the war against the Serbs in Kosovo.
Pádraig, not sure what you’re getting at. You didn’t support the military intervention in Bosnia to prevent the mass slaughter of innocents? The point I was making was that military intervention can be used for good. Do you disagree?
It was a shocking display of cruelty, Malachi, but it is not like there was really any meaningful support to stop the massacre of the Bosniaks. It’s not like the entire situation was not added and abetted by the UK actively destabilising Yugoslavia. The UN could have stepped in, instead, they held back and with their ‘safe spaces’ in so many ways enabled the entire cleansing. Do you not remember the criticising of the US and no support – it was in so many ways avoidable and everyone sat on their hands until it was basically too late.
*US*
Your going to need a better source than a guy in his bedroom in Coventry before any figures can be believed. Not even the staunchly anti US..Guardian newspaper believe a word out of this guys mouth.
If you’re not staunchly anti US foreign policy at this stage, there’s got to be something wrong with you.
The sad state of modern war, innocent people killed in retaliation for killing innocent people. Very difficult for France or the US to claim the high moral ground with despicable acts like this.
You want to do nothing about the terrorists Rochelle? Hope for the best?
You think this will stop a second or third generation Musilm in Europe from doing horrible things Fred?
Christian/capitalist extremists kill 56?
And how many terrorists were killed? That’s all i want to know. Let’s not be niave – the so called “civilians” were likely working for ISIS, in particular on their oil supply which is their main source of income.. Why were they in the ISIS locations? They just wheel this sort of stuff out as their propoganda.
There obviously were civilians complicit in ISIS actions but I’m fairly sure that many of these were forced to do so. It isn’t right to just assume they were all working with ISIS so it’s no loss.
Non-combatant deaths should be avoided at all costs no matter who you think they’re working with.
When IS take over an area they often prevent civilians from leaving, and kill any that try to do so.
It’s well documented that they employ local Syrians and Iraqi’s doing all sorts of jobs particularly related to their oil business. Guess they need the labour.
Its war for Christ sake. Those that live by the sword and all that! Wonder what you snowflakes would be saying and doing if you were around for the 2nd WW. Mind you knowing our connections to Germany and the antisemitism that prevails in this country probably nothing! (Think the last Jewish Pogrom in Europe in the 20th Century happened in this country)!
Warthog, the avatar of violence, supporting violence and exulting in the symbols and instruments of war. Bloodthirsty, atavistic and cruel.
Fred, you don’t know that, you can’t know that and it is not right to make such judgments when equally, if not more likely, innocent civilians are killed.
There is to be an investigation. Let’s hear the results of that investigation.
Michael go back to your Caliphate
Its funny that people forget that isis/isil/is or whatever the US are calling this week came out of the moderate rebels that they had previously armed and trained to do their dirty work in syria. The media is not quick to mention them anymore or ask any hard questions about their sudden disappearance.
The number given of 56 is a poor attempt at damage control, the real number is close to 80 with just as many badly injured. the syrian observatory for Human Rights was set up by america and is a propaganda tool. https://www.rt.com/news/317372-nimrod-kamer-syrian-observatory/
It sad that many media outlets will not question them and just blindly regurgitate their press releases.
No wonder they hate the West All the meddling has led to the rise in radical extremism
How does meddling lead to conservative interpretation of Islamic Law ?
Do you mean ‘meddling’ as in carpet bombing? Mass Murders? Funny description for American terrorist attacks.
Terrible, if it is actually true and accurate… But in any case it is still a war and in war innocent people die and misinformation is rife.
It seems unlikely to be a fabrication. It warrants investigation. Innocent lives are not and cannot be a proper or justified sacrifice.
Aerial bombardment is a poor substitute to specific targeting by ground troops in a ground war, which will cost combatant lives but minimise, although perhaps not entirely avoid, the deaths of innocent civilians.
Imagine seeing your wife or children killed or badly injured. Empathy teaches us what is right and what is wrong.
The loss of innocent lives in Europe does not justify the loss of innocent lives in Syria. In fact, the civilian deaths from the Syrian aerial bombings will only fuel Jihadism in Europe, increasing the probability of further civilian deaths in Europe.
All human life of all non combatant civilians regardless of location is of equal value.
We will see the results of the investigation in due course but it cannot reasonably be denied that investigation is merited.
Terrible mistake….I don’t believe though that the pentagon it there and kill women and children for the fun of it.
You can see in incidents like this why people in the middle east hate the USA and the west in general.
Someone say’s to totally pull out….that will never happen.
“mistake”. just like the US deliberately bombing hospitals is a ‘terrible mistake’.
The West ought be extremely careful of taking sides as both the Saudis AND the Iranians cooperated in every way to execute the murderous 9/11 attack on the US in 2001-2 yrs before the invasion of Iraq. See below for details and ref.
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…”District Judge George B. Daniels ruled in Havlish, et al. v. bin Laden, et al., that Iran and Hizballah were liable for damages to be paid to relatives of the victims of the September 11, 2001 jihad attacks in New York and Washington.
Judge Daniels found that both the Islamic Republic and its Lebanese proxy had actively aided al-Qaeda in planning and executing those attacks. He found that Iran and Hizballah had cooperated and collaborated with al-Qaeda before 9/11, and continued to do so after the attacks….
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/07/robert-spencer-in-pj-media-not-just-the-saudis-irans-huge-role-in-911-also-covered-up
Haven’t they already sided with the Saudis?
Yes, the US refuse to cut off ties with one of their main allies in the ME despite the fact that we now know for sure that elements of the Saudi government played a large role in 9/11.
Amazing what financial interest and a desire for power will let you ignore, even the massacre of 3,000 US citizens isn’t enough to stop this nasty business.
@Eucrid………They can always drop them fast if the will is there. There is no such will under Obama to do that or anything else.
Most of American Middle Eastern military bases are in Saudi Arabia, and considering the amount of oil they have, it’s the Saudis that wear the pants in this particular relationship.
Hence all the ‘evil bear’ narrative and why they want the Ukraine as it is all about ‘Liquid Gold’ Texas T – oil that is. Plus some gas, land and a few other resources. What you thought it was about, Peace, Love and Campfires of Kumbayah?
@Guybrush
Until the oil runs out. Then we’ll see if the US will abandon the state that sponsored terrorism against US citizens. I wonder.
Keep wondering! The US will be either a financial or literal post-apocalyptic wasteland before Saudi Arabia’s oil dries up. Only Venezuela has more oil reserves.
They’ve been saying the global oil supply will run out within the next century for a while now.
If that’s true, we may see the true colours of the US-Saudi Arabia relationship after all.
Mass bombings of this nature inevitably carry collateral damage in the killing of innocent and defenceless civilians. Mass bombing suspect don’t prevent terrorism. They feed terrorism. There will be reprisals in Europe as a consequence.
Mass aerial bombardment is an attempted substitute for ground troops and on the ground combat.
I strongly opposed the invasion of Iraq. I strongly oppose mass aerial bombardment. It costs innocent human lives.
Killing and maiming innocent people in their own homes in their own country invites reprisals.
Hierarchy of victims again. Its ok if the USA or UK kills civilians. But if it was Assad in Syria or Gaddafi in Libya bombing their own people we might need an invasion of the righteous Western nations to prevent the slaughter. The USA have killed hundred of thousands since the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. They have destabilised the entire middle East and now Europe, are mixing it in Africa and still war mongering in the Ukraine, Iran and in Indo China. Meantime their problems at home are just beginning. All empires collapse eventually and usually from within.
I wonder what people on here would think a fitting punishment would be for those responsible? Baring in mind, the firing squad was a popular suggestion for the Nice suspects.
How about a few trillion dollars to aid in rebuilding the entire Middle East that the coalition forces led by the US have destroyed since starting in the late 60′s
Great article by John Pilger, independent journalist. Puts it all in perspective.
http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-the-rise-of-fascism-is-again-the-issue
Stay tuned for another episode of the Malachy And Billy show !
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