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SOME 120 MEMBERS of Ireland’s Defence Forces who were recruited in 1994 will be out of work next year, potentially costing the State upwards of €4 million.
Under the current agreement between the government and the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association (PDFORRA), there is a maximum service limit of 21 years for private and corporal personnel.
Labour’s Ann Phelan is among the TDs who have publicly supported an upper service limit of 50 years for privates and corporals, as proposed by the PDFORRA.
Earlier this month, Phelan brought her concerns to the Dáil, asking a parliamentary question about the compulsory redundancies.
“Many members of the Defence Forces are skilled in particular areas and they simply will not be in a position to transition into areas of civilian employment. They will be forced to avail of Jobseeker’s Benefit for a period of nine months, at the single rate of €188 per week. The overall amount in this regard will be €1.1 million,” Phelan stated.
She added: “The cost to the Exchequer of replacing 100 to 120 post-1994 corporals and privates will run to €1.3 million in pension costs per annum and will give rise to a once-off €2.1 million in gratuities.”
Phelan said that the State would “benefit by €20,000 per individual if they remained in service as opposed to being discharged”.
Gerry Rooney, General Secretary of PDFORRA, told TheJournal.ie that prospects for re-employment for those set to be made redundant are “relatively poor” as “high levels of unemployment are now the norm”.
Rooney said most privates were paid an average of €36,000 annually, while corporals earned more. He added that it would be ”financially more beneficial to the State” to raise the upper service limit.
Negotiations on the issue are ongoing between PDFORRA and officials of the conciliation and arbitration section of the Department of Defence. Rooney said that he expected a decision to be made this month.
He noted that the existing health and fitness regime has made the Defence Forces ”a far more efficient and effective organ … at home and abroad” and said that the “primary matter” being considered by both sides was the “capability” of personnel.
“I don’t know if I’d say I was confident but I certainly wouldn’t expect to come away [from discussions] empty handed,” Rooney added.
Image: Defence Forces
Phelan said that a “major reorganisation of the Defence Forces during the recession” led to the closure of many barracks, causing an over-subscription to non-commissional officer courses and fewer sergeant roles.
Consequently, personnel under the rank of sergeant who were recruited in or after 1994 cannot reach their maximum pension of 31 years service.
Phelan noted that if current rules are not changed, the government will have to pay pensions and redundancy packages as well as salaries to replacement recruits. She said that many of the personnel in question are reliant on the State subsidy of family income supplement as “their salaries aren’t huge”.
She said that the issue was “causing great distress” in her constituency of Carlow and Kilkenny, commenting: “Owing to the recession and subsequent closure of the barracks in Clonmel, there was an influx of transfers to the barracks in Kilkenny.”
Phelan told the Dáil: “The compulsory redundancy of enlisted Defence Forces members, which is based on an upper service limit of 21 years, means those recruited into the force in 1994 and post-1994 stand to be discharged on 10 April next year. These troops will be generally in their mid-30s to early 40s and will have high mortgages, loan repayments, child care costs and young families who must be supported … Continuing in employment is vital to them and their families.”
She added: “It does not make sense that serving members of the Defence Forces will be discharged after completing 21 years’ service, despite having passed all relevant fitness and medical tests … In no other sector of the public service are service periods limited to 21 years.”
Phelan also noted that under the current scheme, personnel are trained to become technicians seven or eight years after they are enlisted and that this process may take up five years, meaning fully-trained technicians may only serve for nine years.
When answering her parliamentary question, Junior Agriculture Minister Tom Hayes said that the then government settled on the current age limit following the publication of an “in-depth study” in 1994 that “expressed severe criticism of the age profile of members of the Defence Forces”.
He noted that the 21-year cut-off point affects enlisted personnel, up to and including the rank of corporal and the equivalent Naval Service rank, but that personnel “in the rank of sergeant may be permitted to continue in service up to the age of 50 years and enlisted personnel in all higher ranks may serve to the age of 56″.
In 1993, the government decided to enlist private soldiers on five-year contracts, following concerns over the age profile of personnel due to the demanding physical nature of the job.
A deal was reached with the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association (PDFORRA) in 1997 to extend this period to twelve years, subject to a medical and fitness test. In 2004, the time frame was extended to twenty one years.
Applications for 900 new roles in the Army and Navy closed last week. There were approximately 6,700 applications for the Permanent Defence Forces and more than 1,800 for the Reserve Force.
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‘needless’ IFA blockades’, like they would be getting an increase without the blockades, protests work folks.
@Rodger 6: read the article the price increase was known about from Tuesday
@Tony Lyons: knowing and doing something about it are two different things
@J: that doesn’t make any sense. They knew about the price increase since Tuesday, so what’s the point of protesting asking for a price increase on Friday? They already got the increase. All this blockade does is hurt the consumer.
@OnlyHereForTheComments: hmmm let me see, big business or the little man, which one is more likely to tell the truth.
@Karl Charlie: I guess you will be stopping eating beef so.
@Karl Charlie: lidl, aldi, Tesco are all squeezing the factories who are in turn squeezing the already squeezed farmer. Eat all the british beef you want. They will do the same to the farmer there then.
This is about paying someone a fair price. Rural communities rely on farming directly or indirectly. If money was to be made in something else they would do it. All Larry and ABP want to do is run them out of business so they can control the market. They dont care entire communities of people who are custodians of the environment are forced to emigrate, move into the city or go on the dole.
@Rodger 6: they were, it’s been on the cards since at least last week. Irish Farmers Journal already had a story about it.
@OnlyHereForTheComments: they got no price, they could turn around and say 1 cent..
@OnlyHereForTheComments: because, more often than not, these ‘promises’ are little more than rhetoric in reality.
@Karl Charlie: they will mourn the loss of your custom, but celebrate the fact that you are spreading the word of their protest.
@Karl Charlie: you obviously know nothing about farming. Enjoy your British beef.
@Ollie O’Cleirigh: Money can be made in a lot if other ways but farmers expect everyone else to pay for their loss making businesses because “my family have been farming here for generations” or some other ‘aul rubbish.
As for your “custodians of the environment” description, more like destroyers of the environment. The worst polluters,
@OnlyHereForTheComments: they haven’t gotten an increase and the factories have not indicated how much they intend to give. They will only be quoting on Mondays cattle Perhaps we should be asking that if they can give increases now then where was this money going up to now if not to the farmers. Pure profiteering
@Karl Charlie: seize every vehicle for what ?? They’re on private property. I’d imagine you could dip away for diesel and you’d probably find diesel too. They’re allowed run green in tractors and I’d say the jeeps will be legal too
@Rodger 6: let’s all protest on behalf of the homeless then if so
@Karl Charlie: here here
@Karl Charlie: they’re not likely to have white diesel in tractors.
@Tony Lyons: Don’t believe all you read Tony. ABP is Larry Goodman after all, that lad would burst into flames if he told the truth.
@Eamonn O Connell: for off road tractors and farm equipment yes they can use green diesel but they cant use green diesel if they plan driving on public roads its illegal, plus they are not on private property… They were on the road OUTSIDE the entrance and exit to the distribution centre blocking access in and out so they should be siezed for impeding traffic
@Tony Lyons: read the article, the 5% offered was derisory and an insult to farmers. Pay a fair price and let everyone make a living.
@Karl Charlie: they can use green diesel in conjunction with their business. And the protests are unfortunately part of their business now until the factories and supermarkets decide to play fair and pay the proper price.
@Karl Charlie: you are allowed to run farm tractors on green diesel regardless of what you are doing. The UK and most of Europe have different rules regarding this but in Ireland green is grand.
They were also on an access road not a public road.
@Karl Charlie: afraid you’re wrong again Tractors and off road vehicles can be used ion the public road on green diesel too. And while the blockade is outside the gate it’s on the private curtalage of the distribution centre. Not on the actual public road therefore it’s not a matter where the guards can take action
@Rodger 6: you think 5 cent/kg will cut it? It is an insult protests will continue
@Tony Lyons: wow 5 cent the kilo. Larry is going broke.
@Dave Deering: i suppose they used a transportation device to get the tractors from their farms to the distribution centre avoiding any public roads where it is illegal for them to drive on using green diesel, as green diesel is for NON-ROAD going machinery and equipment dont believe me? Check out the govt website for dept of comms climate action and environment.
@Eamonn O Connell: yes on public roads travelling from one of their fields to another not driving up and down the country stopping innocent working people getting paid this close to christmas because they can’t get to work beef farmers are a disgrace
@Karl Charlie: green diesel is for agricultural machinery and all non road going machinery such as generators, cement mixers etc with a few exemptions eg. Cranes , cherrypickers. As the law stands in Ireland it is legal to drive a tractor on a public road using green diesel.
@Karl Charlie: still wrong. Of course they can be used on the the public road How else do they get from field to field or deliver crops to factories. Bring a can of white with them and drain the green out before leaving the field ??
@Rodger 6: You misread the article. The €80 refers to gap in price. It is not the entire beast price.
+ 5 cent per kilo (1.5%) well Zippidy doo dah
Honestly it’s shameful farmers raises an animal for maybe 9 – 12 months, pay vet fees, shots, feed etc will only get €80 for their efforts per animal (20c/kg).
That simply can’t be profitable, while the meat processors handle the meat for maybe 3 days, & likely take several times 20c/kg while then it sits on a shop fridge for another 3 days & the shop making €2+. Selling it from anywhere from €4 to €6.67/kg.
Yes, customer wants meat within a reasonable price but it clearly looks like shops, mostly the big chains pressure processors & packagers for lower prices which in turn rolls back on the farmers being paid a measly 20c/kg.
Do shops & packagers really need to make €2.20+/kg each while expecting the farmers who provide internationally recognised excellent animals for pittance?
@Derek:
Your sentiment is correct but your figures are wrong.
I’m sure a proper beef farmer can correct me but the current price is roughly €3.50 per kg and they need about €4 per kg just to break even for the lowest cost producers.
The price differential between ireland and uk prices is €0.40 per kg which as I have shown will make a big difference to farmers. It’s hard to understand why that price differential is there since almost 50% of our beef goes to the uk.
@Tim Pot: thanks, I was only going on what prices per animal was said in the article.
@Tim Pot: your figures sound about right to me.
@Tim Pot: so should we base our pricing on the UK model for everything? Which would would result in a lower price for, drink, cars, vegetables, finance etc Or are we picking and choosing ??
Ha! Ha! Sounds like Aldi said to sort it or they’d get their meat elsewhere.
@Niall Bourke: Many shoppers like myself will only buy Irish meat
@Grainnewhale: many do, I do the same myself, but a good price can be the dealbreaker when you are on a budget and a lot of people are, good prices will always win
@Grainnewhale: As I do myself but I won’t say that can’t change.
My point is Aldi net worth $53.5 billion, Larry Goodman net worth €2.455. I think the term is b***h slapped.
@Grainnewhale: what are your other options when you go into Dunnes, Super V and Tesco?
@Paddy Cullen: quorn
Well done lads. Rest of country take note! The French approach works.
Fair play to the farmers and IFA nothing but admiration for them
Larry Goodman is literally making billions as a middle man in the meat business. The producers/farmers are losing money.
It’s hardly rocket science to see this is deeply wrong, and all this bullshit about the poor consumer is just a distraction.
@Gerard Carthy: guess who his son in law is?
@Oliverpool: he doesnt have a son in law. He has 2 sons and both are married to women.
@Brendan Fogarty: nephew in law…..
Larry Goodman. Too wealthy to give a toss about anyone else.
Supermarkets should stock other countries beef alongside Irish beef and let the consumer decide,
@Sam Cairns: do you not support native irish industry? Would you like some rainforest beef at half the price?
Farmers do not engage in “needless” activity. They have better things to do!
Sure red meat production on way out….the farmer s just speeded the process….
@Marianne: Hope you like eating timber!!
Larry Maith an Fear is a right prince!
@Chin Feeyin: I never knew prince ended in ick
Farmers go to http://www.jobs.ie
That’s what you do when the games over
The article said it all that this was a spat over membership
Any gardai about
At the end of the day this is all going to come down to how you want your meat farmed?
Do you want cheap meat produced on the factory farm model? , or do you want your meat raised with some sort of quality of life before slaughter as we already have with the family farm model?
Do you want your beef feed on grass, flowers, wild herbs and forage or do you want your beef fed on nuts, meal, and the extra antibiotics intensively farmed animals are fed?
The narrative in the media is all about price and very little about how price impacts methods of production, quality and where that road leads to.
Totally agree with the farmers they deserve better prices for the meat its that simple, too many other links in the chain making way more than them, and this is the kinda action we need when it comes our politicians block the streets and stop work they elitist politicians will soon come to heel.
Farmers the length and breadth of the country are members of marts and co-ops for years. Why don’t they set up their own abatoirs and freezer plants and buy their meat from their members and re-sell it into the market themselves? Cut out the profiteers the likes of Larry Goodman who never dirtied his hands in a farm!! The banks and financial institutions would back the marts and co-ops quicker than individual attempts to do so.
@Niall Sheridan: not possible. Larry controls all the offal with his exclusive licence from the State. So, for the last time, nobody can set up in opposition to him unless he says so.
@Sheila Teehan: Is that true? Isn’t that the very definition of a monopoly? Illegal under EU rules???
Not fair at all from Larry giving a measly weekend of notice. Should have made it five working days. Cannot digest a massive 10c per kg that quickly!! He’s right we all knew the rise was coming. Sure Cormac Healy of the MII said earlier in the week that they were about “to engage in the implementation of issues”. Perfect English. Swallowed a dictionary for breakfast.
Two issues simply need to be sorted – the 4 moves limit and the 30 months age limit – and we can all operate on the open market.
@Sheila Teehan: You’re dead right, lets operate in an open market, bring in all that Argentinian beef and then see where the farmers are.
@Paddy Cullen: Argentinian beef is making more than Irish beef atm
Sure we are supposed to be going green to save the planet so beef won’t be an issue if we are going to all go vegan eating plants and insects lol
@sandra clifford: Since all “the powers that be” are advocating massive increase in forestry we need to acquire an appetite for timber as well——Enjoy!!
I back the farmers all the way about time we stood behind irish jobs and irish people, and irish peoples right to protest
How is the best beef in the world getting less per kg than uk beef with all its previous issues.
@KevJ: it’s not really. Just the farmers being screwed on it. Everyone else is quids in.
Maby the farmers want Aldi and lidl to do the slaughtering for them and cut out the middle men.
ALDI to introduce Ballygohanny Beef, sourced in Brazil but packed in Ireland for a much lower price.
How many people would support Community Supported Agriculture farm to fork, cut out the middle man and supply directly to the community
Farmers need to diversify or reduce the herd availability. Doing the same traditional farming and just demanding better pricing isn’t going to work. Rest of European farmers are much more efficient with their land utilisation
have your say