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Army reserve Defence Forces

'Forced to avail of the Dole': 120 Navy and Army personnel to be made redundant

There is currently a maximum service limit of 21 years for private and corporal personnel.

SOME 120 MEMBERS of Ireland’s Defence Forces who were recruited in 1994 will be out of work next year, potentially costing the State upwards of €4 million.

Under the current agreement between the government and the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association (PDFORRA), there is a maximum service limit of 21 years for private and corporal personnel.

Labour’s Ann Phelan is among the TDs who have publicly supported an upper service limit of 50 years for privates and corporals, as proposed by the PDFORRA.

Earlier this month, Phelan brought her concerns to the Dáil, asking a parliamentary question about the compulsory redundancies.

“Many members of the Defence Forces are skilled in particular areas and they simply will not be in a position to transition into areas of civilian employment. They will be forced to avail of Jobseeker’s Benefit for a period of nine months, at the single rate of €188 per week. The overall amount in this regard will be €1.1 million,” Phelan stated.

She added: “The cost to the Exchequer of replacing 100 to 120 post-1994 corporals and privates will run to €1.3 million in pension costs per annum and will give rise to a once-off €2.1 million in gratuities.”

Phelan said that the State would “benefit by €20,000 per individual if they remained in service as opposed to being discharged”.

Poor prospects

Gerry Rooney, General Secretary of PDFORRA, told TheJournal.ie that prospects for re-employment for those set to be made redundant are “relatively poor” as “high levels of unemployment are now the norm”.

Rooney said most privates were paid an average of €36,000 annually, while corporals earned more. He added that it would be ”financially more beneficial to the State” to raise the upper service limit.

Negotiations on the issue are ongoing between PDFORRA and officials of the conciliation and arbitration section of the Department of Defence. Rooney said that he expected a decision to be made this month.

He noted that the existing health and fitness regime has made the Defence Forces ”a far more efficient and effective organ … at home and abroad” and said that the “primary matter” being considered by both sides was the “capability” of personnel.

“I don’t know if I’d say I was confident but I certainly wouldn’t expect to come away [from discussions] empty handed,” Rooney added.

d forces launch

Image: Defence Forces

Fewer sergeant roles

Phelan said that a “major reorganisation of the Defence Forces during the recession” led to the closure of many barracks, causing an over-subscription to non-commissional officer courses and fewer sergeant roles.

Consequently, personnel under the rank of sergeant who were recruited in or after 1994 cannot reach their maximum pension of 31 years service.

Phelan noted that if current rules are not changed, the government will have to pay pensions and redundancy packages as well as salaries to replacement recruits. She said that many of the personnel in question are reliant on the State subsidy of family income supplement as “their salaries aren’t huge”.

She said that the issue was “causing great distress” in her constituency of Carlow and Kilkenny, commenting: “Owing to the recession and subsequent closure of the barracks in Clonmel, there was an influx of transfers to the barracks in Kilkenny.”

Phelan told the Dáil: “The compulsory redundancy of enlisted Defence Forces members, which is based on an upper service limit of 21 years, means those recruited into the force in 1994 and post-1994 stand to be discharged on 10 April next year. These troops will be generally in their mid-30s to early 40s and will have high mortgages, loan repayments, child care costs and young families who must be supported … Continuing in employment is vital to them and their families.”

She added: “It does not make sense that serving members of the Defence Forces will be discharged after completing 21 years’ service, despite having passed all relevant fitness and medical tests …  In no other sector of the public service are service periods limited to 21 years.”

Phelan also noted that under the current scheme, personnel are trained to become technicians seven or eight years after they are enlisted and that this process may take up five years, meaning fully-trained technicians may only serve for nine years.

‘Severe Criticism’

When answering her parliamentary question, Junior Agriculture Minister Tom Hayes said that the then government settled on the current age limit following the publication of an “in-depth study” in 1994 that “expressed severe criticism of the age profile of members of the Defence Forces”.

He noted that the 21-year cut-off point affects enlisted personnel, up to and including the rank of corporal and the equivalent Naval Service rank, but that personnel “in the rank of sergeant may be permitted to continue in service up to the age of 50 years and enlisted personnel in all higher ranks may serve to the age of 56″.

In 1993, the government decided to enlist private soldiers on five-year contracts, following concerns over the age profile of personnel due to the demanding physical nature of the job.

A deal was reached with the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association (PDFORRA) in 1997 to extend this period to twelve years, subject to a medical and fitness test. In 2004, the time frame was extended to twenty one years.

Applications for 900 new roles in the Army and Navy closed last week. There were approximately 6,700 applications for the Permanent Defence Forces and more than 1,800 for the Reserve Force.

In Pics: Ireland’s Defence Forces in 2012

Read: Planning on applying to the Defence Forces? Better get moving…

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88 Comments
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    Mute Padraig
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:44 PM

    A person who travels in space for the Chinese space program is called a Taikonaut.For America and the rest of the world its Astronaut and for Russia its Cosmonaut.

    111
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    Mute Breas
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:47 PM

    @Padraig: nobody travels in space its all fake

    46
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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:53 PM

    Lol! Alt-Right conspiracy theorists are funny.

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    Mute Patrick Mac
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:24 PM

    @Breas: <——- a man with good discernment.

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    Mute TTGxWeeD
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:01 PM

    @OpenBorders No alt right, Just a guy with his own opinion. Which seems a tad silly.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:06 PM

    @OpenBorders:

    I don’t think you can really say much when you have set up a profile specifically to invoke a reaction.

    35
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    Mute Charlie Fogarty
    Favourite Charlie Fogarty
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    Jan 7th 2017, 10:05 PM

    @Pádraig Ó Raghaill:

    Hey. Paddy. While you’re here…..I’m not a Zionist. You know this.

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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Jan 7th 2017, 10:07 PM

    @Charlie Fogarty:

    I thought we settled that – no need to rehash – I believe I even said you have discussions unlike many

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    Mute Charlie Fogarty
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    Jan 7th 2017, 11:36 PM

    @Pádraig Ó Raghaill:

    I just take umbrage with being considered a Zionist when my support of Israel differs greatly to that mode of thinking. It’s important to differentiate between them.

    6
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    Mute Micheal S. O' Ceilleachair
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    Jan 8th 2017, 5:36 AM

    …or a Coconaut!!!

    4
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    Mute Blackwater Dr School
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    Jan 10th 2017, 9:07 PM

    What’s a Irish one called ???

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    Mute WJH
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:49 PM

    The whole lot of them??

    28
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    Mute David Thomas
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:06 PM

    Surely not. Who’s going to make all our stuff?

    35
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    Mute Les Behan
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:11 PM

    @WJH: Why? Sure the Chinese are a great bunch of lads!

    27
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    Mute Shaun Gallagher
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:33 PM

    I hear they want to go to the sun at night as well

    26
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    Mute DonaldsFriedChicken
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:35 PM

    That was north Korea dude… But easy mistake they appear similar.

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    Mute Enda
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:08 PM

    A Great Bunch Of Lads

    24
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    Mute Craig Gibbs
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:54 PM

    That’d be awesome if it happens

    24
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    Mute Bottleneck
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:00 PM

    They already own half of Canada and Africa!

    23
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    Mute John Considine
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:58 PM

    China look set to dominate this sphere for the foreseeable future:

    Soon they will be the only nation to have in-service, proven moon landing technology. By 2025 China will also likely have the only remaining Space Station in orbit with the ISS due to retire. They are already pretty far ahead in the race to capture a Near Earth Object and return in to an Earth orbit. NASA started their project this year on a shoestring budget as they prioritise a Mars 2030 run. The first nation to return an asteroid will lead the way in develop methods and technologies to mine such asteroids.

    Essentially they are the only people actually trying to begin a space exploitation program. NASA are stuck on a vanity project, ESA doesn’t have a real budget and the Soviets are only interested in selling rockets anyway. They can do this because their system has advantages for long term infrastructure development over systems with elections. I really don’t see how they’d catch up at this point anyway.

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    Mute Charlie Fogarty
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:02 PM

    @John Considine:

    “the Soviets” ? C’mon comrade.

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    Mute John Considine
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:47 PM

    @Charlie Fogarty: I like how the only part of my reply worth of comment was my use of “Soviet” as opposed to Russian….

    China’s relentless march towards becoming the next true Superpower? Let’s not worry about nonsense like that. All post in defence of Comrad Putin!!!

    Sometimes you guys are just *too* transparent man.

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    Mute Charlie Fogarty
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    Jan 7th 2017, 10:18 PM

    @John Considine:

    It was the funniest part. You’re framing the whole thing this as if the race hasn’t already been run. Any progress into space exploration is a positive now, regardless of who does it.

    Who cares who owns the moon? I hope they are planning on building a base.

    Who is ewe guys?

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    Mute TTGxWeeD
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:08 PM

    Sounds very interesting, It would be great to see the results and what type of minerals and compounds are found. Maybe E.T too

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    Mute Donal O'Brien
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:39 PM

    Good for them.

    19
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    Mute Patrick Mac
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:01 PM

    Apparently we’re all on a big ball, rotating at a speed of 1000mph and further rotating around a Sun, at 67,000mph. In addition, all of that is hurtling through an infinite universe at speeds up in the 100s of 1000s of mph – yet I feel absolutely zero vibration, lateral movement, or rotational pull from all of it.
    Do you ?

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    Mute Roibeard O Beachain
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:09 PM

    Yawn…. No response on the last article you posted with the exact same comment so thought you would try again? What is wrong with you?

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    Mute Patrick Mac
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:14 PM

    @Roibeard O Beachain: I like to question what I’m instructed to believe, is what’s wrong with me.
    An admirable quality in a world teaming with MSM controlled automatons, if I do say so myself.

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    Mute OpenBorders
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:24 PM

    @Patrick Mac: ‘I like to question what I’m instructed to believe’

    Unless it comes from a conspiracy website,then you won’t question it at all.

    24
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    Mute Les Behan
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:25 PM

    @Patrick Mac: Ha ha not this crap again! :-)

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    Mute Patrick Mac
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:29 PM

    @OpenBorders: what website is it your referring to. I don’t need any website, book, TV set, radio to tell me that when I go outside, sit/stand still and do my best to detect, or feel motion I fail every time.

    You can try it yourself if you wish. Stand away from the computer, go outside and ask yourself:
    “where is the motion” ?

    Go ahead, do it now, then report your findings.

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    Mute George Salter
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:43 PM

    Inertial frame…

    14
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    Mute Paraic McDonagh
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:48 PM

    @ Patrick Mac. I went outside. I observed the motion of the stars in the sky. The speed is almost imperceptible because the Earth rotates at only once per 24hrs. This is half the speed of the hour hand of a clock so I wasn’t expecting to have to hold on for dear life. But its very real all the same. Go outside and check yourself.

    19
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    Mute Charlie Fogarty
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:49 PM

    @Patrick Mac:

    Yeah I don’t get science either.

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    Mute Patrick Mac
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:55 PM

    @Paraic McDonagh: you’re ignoring the other two, additional trajectories Paraic:

    *** rotating around a Sun, at 67,000mph

    *** hurtling through an infinite universe at speeds up in the 100s of 1000s of mph

    Why did you feel nothing from those, either ? More importantly, who, or what, carries out the task of steering planet earth through the infinite universe at such extreme speeds, huh ?

    If you can answer this then you will be a rich man indeed.

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    Mute Gary
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:11 PM

    Paraic, he’s a known troll so don’t waste your time.

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    Mute Richard Sweeney
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:12 PM

    Patrick i thought you were gonna go watch miles from tomorrow?

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    Mute john
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:14 PM

    Scientists rarely become rich men. The reason you don’t feel anything is because space is a vacuum and so there is no resistance to the earth spinning or moving so that’s why you don’t feel anything. Simple really.

    20
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    Mute Paraic McDonagh
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:17 PM

    @Patrick Mac. Tell me this; when you’re on a train, do you expect your tea to splash into your face at 70mph when you tilt the cup to your mouth?

    23
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    Mute Paraic McDonagh
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:19 PM

    …If I was sitting next to you, it would.

    13
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    Mute Patrick Mac
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:35 PM

    @Paraic McDonagh: sorry, that’s not comparing like with like, Paraic.

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    Mute Roibeard O Beachain
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:44 PM

    He is Patrick. You could travel 60, 000 kph on a train and not feel a thing. Take away sound, windows and vibration from the track and you wont know you are moving ( if the train’s velocity is constant ) A sudden change in the trains velocity and coffee is getting spilled all over you or a lovely fat women has signed your death warrant….

    13
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    Mute Robert Emmett Birrell
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:46 PM

    Ha ha! You don’t notice anything because you are traveling at the same speed!

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    Mute justanothertaxpayer
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    Jan 8th 2017, 4:16 PM

    Your atoms are vibrating if that helps

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    Mute Breas
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:46 PM

    Their mission will be as Fake as the US one in 1969. I wonder will the show the earth spinning from the moon. maybe they could place a video camera on the moon and show us the earth spinning 24/7

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    Mute Charlie Fogarty
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:56 PM

    How can it spin if it’s flat?:

    59
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    Mute Padraig
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    Jan 7th 2017, 7:57 PM

    China already put a rover on the moon in 2013 called Jade Rabbit.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yutu_(rover)#

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    Mute Paraic McDonagh
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:01 PM

    You do realise that optical reflectors were placed on the moon by Apollo astronauts which anyone can bounce a laser off and are therefore verifiable? How do you purpose those got there if the moon landings were fake?

    34
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    Mute Joseph Siddall
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:01 PM

    Charlie, you can spin a plate. Same principle, just bigger. The Earth sits on a big wobbly stick. Or on four elephants on the back of a giant turtle. Depends who you ask.

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    Mute Joseph Siddall
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:02 PM

    Padraig, odd name for a dog.

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    Mute MyBrokenKnees
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:58 PM

    Trump will want to get there first to brand it Trump Moon.

    11
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    Mute Bennythekid
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    Jan 7th 2017, 9:49 PM

    How high is the moon -Ho Hi is a China man? Ho low is his brother.

    10
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    Mute Kieran O Regan
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    Jan 8th 2017, 12:12 AM

    @Bennythekid:@Bennythekid:who is his brother how low is his cousin

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    Mute An Ubh
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:03 PM

    Wonder how they will take all of China to Mars?

    8
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    Mute An Ubh
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:06 PM

    *The moon
    Lol

    4
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    Mute Paul Lane
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    Jan 7th 2017, 11:46 PM

    Look at the south China sea…I don’t trust these medieval s (umbags

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    Mute Grace mc kenna
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    Jan 8th 2017, 7:38 AM

    The Earth is Flat!!!! This is not a piss take..

    4
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    Mute Grace mc kenna
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    Jan 8th 2017, 7:40 AM

    Apparently the Chinese have admitted that there was no sign of the NASA every been on the moon! No Apollo Missions!! All a big Masonic lie..

    3
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    Mute David Carino
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    Jan 7th 2017, 8:59 PM

    Yes and they want to buy Donald Trump for a Trillion Dollars and have him run it for them……

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    Mute Micheal S. O' Ceilleachair
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    Jan 8th 2017, 5:36 AM

    Is his wife’s name She Qisong!!!!!

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    Mute Terry Cahill
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    Jan 8th 2017, 7:22 AM

    Tickets available from Ticketmaster

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