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TAOISEACH ENDA KENNY has said that nothing has been “signed off on” following the Cabinet meeting on water charges this morning.
Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin asked Kenny if a deal was not reached because the Labour party “angrily raised” the fact that a circular was released to the media before they were fully consulted.
Kenny denied this was the case.
Martin said that “the public are being treated with absolute contempt” by the Government’s lack of transparency regarding the cost of water meters and standing charges.
He slammed the “extravagant” €180 million set-up of Irish Water.
In a robust debate Kenny hit back: “I take very little notice of opportunist hypocrites of which you are the leader” before reading from a previous Fianna Fáil four-year plan which stated that the party would introduce water charges at an annual cost of €400 per household.
Kenny confirmed that the Government expected the annual bill for houses to be around €240, with a standing charge of around €50.
He said a two-week public consultation process on Irish Water would begin tomorrow, during which allowances for vulnerable groups would be looked at.
Kenny also noted that the Department of the Environment and the CSO were engaged in “intensive” negotiations to ensure the water charges are in line with Eurostat rules.
Martin replied that the public did not care about European targets, rather “what bill they will receive in the last quarter of this year”.
The Ceann Comhairle had to ask for order to be restored on a number of occasions, once stating:
“Would you stay quiet for God’s sake” and telling Kenny “I’ll have to ask you to finish because they’re not listening to you”.
Kenny said that both Fine Gael and Labour were “united” in ensuring that water charges were “fair, equitable and as affordable as possible”.
He added that Irish Water had to be set up to deal with the “completely inferior infrastructure” currently in place.
When Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams criticised the Government’s handling of the issue, Kenny said that Adams had welcomed the €980 annual household charge in Northern Ireland “with open arms”.
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Bruton laughing in the picture , says it all , it’s all a joke to them to get more tax from us , shame on him
Don’t pay it
I’m looking forward to the Local and Euro elections when I will have a big laugh as well.
Bargain, give it 5 years, it will be €600 plus.
if you pay it will be. Plus you have to fix there pipes if they leak.
Everyone said the same about the Household charge, they all paid in the end. Same will happen with the water charge. Its to late now.
I know what you mean Bobby, but we can’t be so defeatist. They can’t put us all in prison if we all just stand up to them for once.
They did say nobody will go to prison for not paying. They will receive fines through the courts. And maybe a bailiff at the door.
It’s not a tax. Who calls to your door if you don’t pay your gas bill ?
And if you don’t pay the fine then what? If enough, or indeed all of us just say no, you can’t get any more blood from this stone, then they’ll have to backtrack. It’s so simple.
If you don’t pay your gas bill you get cut off. They are not allowed to cut your water supply off. If you don’t pay the fine the bailiffs will be banging on your door to take what to have.
Bobby grow a pair lad. Bailiffs my arse.
That’s what will happen. Wait and see. And i bet this time next year you will have your water bill paid. Or the Bailiffs will be knocking. My friend had the Bailiffs knocking on her door for not paying €100 hospital bill. The bill shot up to €450 when the bailiffs took it over.
No I won’t bobby as I have May own water and waste. But I will stand up and say enough f ing taxes even if it dose not affect me. I think we should all stand up and say enough TOGETHER
Good man, you will ok then. It’s to late for everyone else.
Complete sh1te bobby. Household charge/propertax ‘compliance’ is due to Revenue being given draconian powers to dip its paws into your wages/benefits. As a utility company, Irish Water can’t use revenue to collect, and has no signature of ‘customers’ signing up for the service.
So, can the bailiff crap, its embarrasing.
WereJammin’s right, the bailiff’s won’t be going near you.
From what I can see they have a number of options:
1) Put the fact that you haven’t paid on your credit history.
2) Sue for breach of contract, succeed, then put the amount as a judgment payment on your house.
3) Publish your name as a defaulter, which may affect your reputation.
4) Turn the water down to a trickle, so your appliances stop working.
5) File conspiracy charges with the DPP (That one definitely won’t happen)
None of this is comparable to the force revenue could use, so Pete and WereJammin are right, they will really struggle to collect this money.
Was talking to a part time fire man. He told me they can’t turn your water down to a drip incase of a fire in the house. Is this true ?
I know in a high court judgment Justice Hogan before said that enough water had to be left on for someone to get enough to drink and to wash, so basically they have to leave enough running for a shower to be able to switch on which is actually a rather large amount..
More scaremongering. People refused to pay in the 90s, and aside from a couple of court cases which were thrown out, nothing happened and the charges were abolished.
He wasn’t talking about water charges though, just the general right to water under the ECHR
They will prob just increase paye instead and get it that way if nobody pays.
Bobby i havent paid the bond/bankers property tax!.. havent the money to even if i wanted to.
they can not knock off your water its a basic human right
Anybody see the program( Terra Nova) or remember the movie (solarbabies) In the future, a nuclear war has left the Earth as a desert wasteland where the ocean has dried up leaving the Earth as a vast desert landscape. Most of the water supplies are controlled by the elite corporation E-Protecorate, where the E-Protectcorate takes children away from their families and are forced to live in a orphanage, where they are to be trained as E-Police, the E-Protectcorate’s security army led by the cruel commanding officer Grock. After playing a game of Skateball (Hockey on Rollerskates) against their rival team ‘The Scorpions’. Daniel, the youngest member of the Solarbabies discovers a glowing orb from another galaxy called Bodahi in a mineshaft and Bodahi heals Daniel’s deafness. The Solarbabies learn Bodahi has amazing powers. And the discovery of Bodahi convinces the Solarbabies to escape from the Orphange and fight back against the E-Protectcorate. Pursued by Grock, who is after Bodahi, The Solarbabies travel across the desert wasteland, where Bodhai is the key in their quest to defeat the E-Protectcorate and liberate the world from it’s control.
In the end there is loads of water they are just keeping it for the rich.
Sounding familiar barr the nuclear war.
I cant pay that 240 euro and majority of people i know wouldnt be able to pay it. They dont own the water the planet owns the water. They are going to try dominate even lakes and rivers i’ll bet in future.
Cant people smell the rats.
Thats why they are after non eu countries in europe with huge water resources aswell.
Bottled water prices will rocket on top of it.
Its criminal.
It just shows you how dumb our Taoiseach really is, does he know what people actually get up the North for their the household charge they are paying for. We have had a lot of corrupt Taoiseachs in out history but he will surely go down as the thickest of them all, the man hasn’t a clue and the only reason he is there is not because of his capabilities but because of FF and their actions.
He knows as does most people, just doesn’t want to admit that our northern neighbours actually see something for their charge.Whereas south of the border it’s just another tax with no benefit to the people that pay it.
Up north you pay rates and you get free medical care, free rubbish collections, free school books and free water. You.also avail of dirt cheap car tax, no vrt on new cars and the price of a pint is around £3.. Down here we pay huge taxes on cars, high taxes on earnings, high vat and excise duty and still have to pay extra for the rest.. It’s a complete joke!
Well yeah but they north gets 3 billion a year from the UK to not murder each other so it isn’t quite the same.
David if all you can add is a stupid comment probably best you go out and enjoy the Sun and say nothing.
Because of the history of violence in the north which can be in part linked to unemployment and deprivation the UK provides a large block grant which helps to pay for the large public sector and lower taxes and higher welfare.
Better?
Still does not negate your stupid comment of which there was no need to post in the first place.
What lower tax rates and higher welfare rates are you referring to? Are you really that misinformed or deliberately lying?
Up North they get billions from the UK to subsidise them.
Northern Irish marginal tax rates are considerably lower for nearly all income tax levels. The better welfare things are well known, free schoolbooks, free musical instruments, leisure centres and pools and community centres, NHS etc etc.
Norm I wouldn’t get so snippy when you don’t know the difference between GNP and GDP.
You’re talking BS David, as for GDP or GNP what’s it got to do with this article?
You are quick to get snippy when you are actually wrong. That’s the relevance.
Basic unemployment benefit is lower but the welfare system is wider and better funded with good reason by the UK. There is a large subsidy to the north because hopelessness is breeding ground for extremism.
David not getting snippy I have lots of family up North that’s why I know you’re talking BS
So then you’ll know what I’m talking about. Thanks Norm
Yes David I know you’re lying but was curious as to why?But have noticed a familiar style to your comments hope this one lasts longer than your pervious accounts.You must be getting fed up making up new accounts.
So you don’t think northern Ireland gets subsidies from the UK?
They get a block grant, please point out where I alluded to the North not getting a grant?
David, you just won’t give it a rest. You are off-topic regarding content of the article. Kenny was asked about water charges and you are going on about the troubles, UK subsidies etc… You sound like Kennys parrott (assuming he has one)
David
Your dishonesty is breathtaking! To suggest that the cost of a pint of beer in Northern Ireland is linked to the Property tax levels is just mind blowing!
They get a block grant which means the state is bigger and better funded than in the south. Which is exactly my point Norm.
Ah Rogers the clown , circus closed today?
David you and your point is wrong in so many ways but I couldn’t be ar*ed pointing out your flaws because you wouldn’t acknowledge it anyway.So take care.
Norm get upset when he is wrong clearly.
We have to stand together in civil disobedience and not pay this outrageous charge.
Paddy doesn’t disobey, paddy gumbles about the lord of the manor to neighbours then grovels and prostrates as his carriage goes past, suddenly applauding the lord for being a better stock of person.
Its called the peasant mentality and its one of many reasons Ireland despite nearly 100 years now of independence is still a failed state.
You add peasant mentality to paddys love of the cute whole, paddy thinking teaching 9 year olds and playing GAA makes u qualified to conduct complex social and economic policy as a minister, add it to parish pump and a short attention span and u start to see why Ireland’s going so wrong and how anyone thought dim featherweights Luke rabbitte, noonan, coughlin, quinn, biffi..could run a country.
Ryan, you put it so well. We really have to work to change that servile mentality.
Literally every other western country has water charges. The concept isn’t that outrageous.
Try living in the west and having to pay for undrinkable bog water oozing from your tap. Other countries get some sort of bang for their buck. This is just the government saying we’d like another 250 quid a year from you please for…em…oh yeah, water.
Well yeah that’s the point isn’t it. We didn’t invest in water infrastructure because we didn’t pay for it. It should improve now.
I’m not at all convinced that that will be the case. Much more likely to be just like the property tax; hard-earned money thrown away into the ether with no discernible end product.
2% on vat 5% on motor tax we are paying
David Burke.. We do pay for water and rates… They were added to the central tax system in the 70s. Everyone with a job is paying a fortune in taxes and where is it going? 10 billion per year in debt repayment. Who runs this country the people or Europe. We need to reevaluate everything we have come to accept since the financial crisis.
David you misunderstand my point. I try to be more pithy these days but this needs explaining.
I think water charges ( if they have a generous allowance and only penalize you when you seriously waste and they are not privatized which is something the French and German are running a mile away from now given their experience) are reasonable.
I think there’s something to be said for building a revenue base that is not reliant on the construction sector/property. I don’t think regressive flat taxes like the property one make sense though for a lot of reasons).
I was referring to the anomaly in Ireland that despite paying more than half our income in taxes as many of our EU partners do, unlike them we get next to nothing back for ours. No free at point of use heath / education no subsidized childcare etc etc
The other point is, though its not unusual for an electorate to b lied to (esp w/influence of special interest donations making what voters think less relevant the world over) we have always tolerated the abuse of the establishment in an overly servile way and undercut anyone standing up to it.
Water charges were a labour red line, one of just a small number of things they said we’re not negotiable and it would not going to coalition if they were crossed. Water / free education…all crossed..no probs from labour…and electorate give these promise breakers an OK time in opinion polls and are already falling for it when ft say they oppose them (a blatant lie)
Yes we pay high taxes because we had a property crash and we have the most progressive tax system in the OECD.
But still everyone else has water charges and it was a condition of the IMF lending us money. It reduces usage because people start caring.
Water should be paid for just like gas or elecric. Red thumb away..
Emlyn your correct but as has been said ad nauseum, it’s cost was added on to vat and motor tax in the 71 ‘ s. We are being asked to pay twice.
@david. Studies show about 40% reduction in usage after introduction of charges, but unfortunately price we pay will increase if we conserve, just as electricity standing charges increase as we become more energy efficient.
@emlyn. we already pay for water, just like when motor tax was scrapped and added to the price of fuel, then reintroduced as a tax again without reducing the tax on fuel. People have very short memories. The water that comes from my tap is horrible to drink. Will Irish Water fix this? I won’t hold my breath.
The most progressive system really you must have your own definition mate.
Saying to workers/business “give me x% of your net gains” that’s progressive. What we say here w/rates and property tax is “give us more than half your income..OK .,no you don’t GET anything for that you still have to pay seperatly for health education etc…now you’re buying a house? Pay tax on it…OK now give me another tax..what do u mean you paid tax on it already well pay again…now SME owner you owe the council 50k in rates..what do u mean you only MADE 49k I don’t care GIVE it to me!” Progressive taxation is not “I don’t care what u actually HAVE gimme this flat sum”
So we do all that then compound the problem by giving them nothing back for the cash they pay then subjecting them to the aggravation of watching multi generational familys who’ve never worked / contributed have the state bend over backwards to help them while their kids who are in college trying to make something of themselves are barred from all supports the wasters get!
Admit it, govt supporter or not u have to see Ireland for the failed state that it is we need to start over BADLY
Enjoy your rant Ryan.
@Norman and Swenney what was done in 71 was wrong. We can’t put everything into the one pot and pay everything out of it. If this is done fair not like the property tax it should provide us with a great water supply little waste in the system and maybe even the chance to export. Its vital for future generations that we get this right now.
Emlyn do you believe in the tooth fairy as well?
Emlyn €85 million spent on consultants in 1 year suggests to me that any hope the water system will improve is unlikely. Look at them already diverting the house tax to Irish water that was going to pay for local services remember. What’s going to cover the cost of those?
I’m guessing those on Social Welfare will get another pass and the workers will get screwed again. Yes you heard what I said…………
You must be joking… this was never about water, which is already paid for in our taxes, its about revenue collecting, and further enriching FG cronies. They were offered the water meters and installation free of charge, why didnt they take the offer up? … Maybe they wouldn’t be able to justify the charge then.
Ooo great debate Norman. Mature much ??????
@kerry I get your point and agree fully I’m just saying there is nothing for nothing and we should be grown up about this and be prepared to pay for excess water we use.
Excess?? I sure as hell can’t afford the 250e annual charge never mind excess!!
Emlyn nothing got to do with maturity, but surely all the evidence available will show you this will not be done right it is no more than a smash and grab same as the property tax.
I meant no offense but if you believe we will a world class water system and be able to export the surplus my original question still stands.
Enda Kenny should be more worried about the 98% water he has in his brain….
What a drip? The man is so graceless, he makes Bertie Ahern look good. His manners are appalling , except when he’s playing the Eurocrawler outside the country. If he is not prepared to learn good manners , then he and his fellow crawlers , should be taught a sharp lesson by the Electorate.
The eurocrawler..I like it. From now on thats his name
Kenny has a brain? I thought all he was was a dummy for his handlers other wise why the refusal to debate or answer questions from the media. He was running away again today the coward.
I always thought of Enda Kenny as the lapdog under the Euro table being fed scraps by the fat cats, absolutely sick of him. He’s a coward only appearing when there is something good to say or when a script is put on front him.
Simply don’t pay this and let those people know that they can’t force us.
So right. We are many, they are few!
If everyone donates just €4 a week these poor politians can retire on €500k a year after 2-3 hard years of work and they will allow us to have water. Get F@@ked!
Plus VAT.
He looks like frank spencer in that photo. Edna getting angry is funny, he tries to look tough but fails abysmally
Cue disturbing mental image of Enda Kenny wearing a beret!
Where do they think folks get extra cash for these obscene charges?? Oh yeah the money tree in the the back garden.
Make sure and water it…
more like the cannabis tree these days
Can’t pay, won’t pay. Simple as.
Quite right, and it really is that simple.
Labour just don’t want to know anything about water or charges.
They don’t have to Owen…FG will whip the spineless bastids into line and they’ll tow the rope just as they always do. Labour are morally and ethically bankrupt…
Implement water tax but remove property tax. Labour are giving the spin now that they are standing up to FG on this to make them look good for the elections. They will tax the water and lower the tax on income that should be already paying for the water in time for the general election to look good and gain votes.
Did Irish water not say they needed around a billion euro for general upkeep and upgrading works,
Just €240 per house leaves them along way of that so where does the rest come from??
Baz, Irish Water is just setting up the billing infrastructure. The “government” will then put Irish water up for sale as soon as people are stupid or scared enough to start paying.
There’ll be a government subvention of about €500m a year to Irish Water.
Subvention = pay for it twice.
@baz the difference is already being made up by the house hold tax you know that tax that was going to be used for local services?
That’s right Kerry, the same tax that is not building much Social Housing – contributing to the shortage in Dublin. And the Town Council’s that are shutting down around the Country.
The first party to abolish home and water tax has four votes in my house.
No wonder Bertie and Fianna Fail were elected three times on the trot. There is no hope!
Hey Reg, should you not be off with your comrades illegally hanging up posters?
Take flouride out of my water and you can have my money
Whatever you do ..dont bypass the meter..dont go to your local hardware /plumbing supplier and buy a 1″ gate valve and a 1″ tee piece ans a 1″ lever valve and however much 1″ potable quality pipe you need
Cost about €50 and take maybe an hour or so..get together with a neighbour /s ..buy or hire a pipe freezing kit..enjoy it..while youre at it tidy up the mess left by the professionals
Doesn’t make sense. What’s the water metre for if we all get charged the same?
Sure they didn’t ;-)
I find it hard to believe, we have a ‘completely’ inferior water infrastructure in Ireland!
Kenny is either lying or lacks basic maths skills. €240 x number of households + maximum government subvention falls WAY short of the cost of supplying the water.
The average needs to be over €300 to bring in enough. Even a primary school teacher could work that one out.
He’s lying.
Funny that the government will fight any of its E.U partners to hold its corporate tax rates but rolls over like a dog when it comes to protecting it’s vulnerable saying the troika made us do it. If the people stood together that would give some hope but unfortunately we just whine and moan without action.
if we all decide not to pay not just a few then we can defeat they already did defeated it when they tried to bring it in once before
I know a chap who is e2000 a year worse off than he was before his beloved FG came into power yet will not say a word against them, these are the sort of masochists who don’t care how much pain is inflicted on him and his children just as long as it’s his crowd doing it and that my friends is why we’ll always be nothing in this country and why we’ll continue to vote in sneaky b*******s like the muppets we have currently and I know rightly that the FG/FF/LAB loyalists who frequent here with their deluded support for every tax, charge and cut understand what I’m saying, they’d live on the side of the road in an empty box after this government drives them further into poverty rather than say anything untoward against their inherited, hand me down, parish pump allegiance.
Then again, FG are traditionally the party of the rich man so they can manage to squirm through the various loop holes designed to placate the wealthy, these water charges probably won’t affect palatial mansions.
It could be because he knew taxes were going up no matter who is in charge.
Nope….he freely admits that under FF he was an awful lot better off regarding childcare, health and education and although both he and I absolutely scorn FF and how they wrecked this country he is still denial about how detrimental FG are to him, he hated FF when they were in government despite being better off, hates FF for making a complete balls of the state but loves FG for every cut, tax and charge they dream up to sate bankers whims…it’s an Irish thing.
Ok so what about all the leaks that are already happening after installation and all the pipes that have not been laid back down low enough in the ground to avoid them freezing in sub 0 weather!!???? Who is responsible for this farce?
Can;t believe this is happening in the most rainy country of the northern emisphere!
We already pay taxes, water should be a free commodity. End of story.
However, if it has to be taxed should fairly taxed on consumption, why I should pay the same amount of a family of sex if we’re three? Obviously, the meter at government’ expenses, not mine.
…ehm… obviously I meant “family of six”… mispelling
Don’t worry FG are planning to bring in a tax on sex shortly as well.
Enda says it’s ”around €240″. So plenty of room to manoeuvre but nothing definitive, typical politican jargon. I’ve one for you Enda ”not one cent more” and I won’t break that promise.
PR costs, leaks, And is VAT included on that price? And what if people conserve water too much? Will the unit price of water be increased then? We are been Rode sudeways.
aint paying for substandard service what a load of shite
They’ll be charging us for the are that we breath next!
I already pay for my water and my septic tank like most people living in the country do. It’s about time urban dwellers started paying for these services too.
We already do . It’s called income tax. I’m sure you’re familiar with it.
Yes I pay plenty of it myself but I still have to pay for my water and other services. In effect country people are subsiding urban dwellers
Lads, no point arguing among ourselves country vs urban, we are all been screwed, whether country or city dweller.
There are only 5000 prison places in the Republic of Ireland and the prisons are full to the gills all the time. There is no space if there is a mass default here – what are the Government going to do – open up internment camps ? Will the government get the Revenue Commissioners to deduct this TAX and other so called “charges” from your income ? Looks like it.
Doesn’t matter what it is this year, with a government subvention into Irish Water of 500 million a year, whether they launch it at 100 Euro or 400 Euro a year, it’ll be pushed up a few hundred every year until they shake another 1,000 odd Euro a year out of every home in the country for water charges, and the same will happen with the Property Tax. WAKE UP!!!
Without subvention……it is effectively €500 per household per year. That does not take into account continuing emigration and inflation.
Water is a necessity of life. Not a commodity so political cronies and a certain businessman can profit from it. And a government can use it as a source of revenue to pay off a bankers debt.
Wont pay Can’t afford to pay, but sure they will hand this one over to the Revenue too and they will just charge interest and take it out of your wages, cant wait to leave this country
Fekin baxtards!!!!!!!
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