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The world is talking about Tuam's 800 dead babies

Even if the Government hasn’t yet.

DESPITE THE GOVERNMENT not yet making an official statement on the alleged mass child grave in Tuam, the story has already been reported worldwide.

Outlets across the United States were among the first cover the story outside of Ireland. Within the last 24 hours Al Jazeera, BBC, CBS and outlets in Australia have all reported the horrific revelations that up to 796 infants may have been buried in an unmarked grave that was later used as a septic tank.

PastedImage-28564 Washington Post Washington Post

Several New York based outlets picked up the the case after US Irish community website Irish Central spoke to local historian, Catherine Corless.

join 1 NY Daily News and Irish Central NY Daily News and Irish Central

 

The story was last night the most read story on the Washington Post’s website. A Twitter search for ‘Irish babies’ also demonstrates how the story has been read by people in a range of countries and languages including French, Greek and Italian.

babies twitter Twitter Twitter

Buzzfeed also posted an article about the former children’s home in Galway which has been viewed over 600,000 times since it was published 16 hours ago according the the websites tracking stats.

PastedImage-6488 Buzzfeed Buzzfeed

join 2 Both outlets embedded tweets from the @Limerick1914 account.

Many of the worldwide reportage of the story, including the above post by CBS News in the US and MamaMia in Australia has been using the Twitter account of Liam Hogan (@Limerick1914) to provide a degree of connection for their audience to the ongoing research.

 

storify Storify Storify

 

Read: ‘It’s time to do something’ – The forgotten mass grave of 800 babies in Galway >

Opinion: Mass grave ‘filled to the brim with tiny bones and skulls’ shows how we cherish children >

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

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175 Comments
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    Mute Kevin Elliott
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:01 PM

    Another great shame on the Catholic Church and our country. Lives tossed aside as meaningless because those with power established themselves as ultimate judges of who matters and who doesn’t . Truly evil

    890
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    Mute Rachel Boyers
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:18 PM

    Hay be careful if your accusing the church of anything.That nutter therese might come back for another go at projecting blame at everyone but the church!

    231
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    Mute Kevin Elliott
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:31 PM

    I’ve defended the church myself many times. I’ve always felt that despite it’s many sins that through the Church we could pursue a Christianity worthy of the teachings of Jesus. Now I think the balance of good deeds versus those sins tipped the wrong way a long time ago

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    Mute Susan Adair Farrelly
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:56 PM

    Oh man she was on fire last night-almost punched the laptop reading her comments!!

    113
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    Mute Paul Minogue
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:01 PM

    How do devout Catholics look at the church as a source of absolute morality when the church had a different morality back then compared to now (hopefully)?

    Absolute morality, if you think you have access to and ability to preach, should not need to move with the times.

    Remember this whenever the church tries to convince you that it knows morality beyond our mortal, finite lives.

    The church has done some good. Even as an opponent of it I can admit that. So let’s have more of the good stuff and NONE of the bad stuff. The church doesn’t need to dissolve, but it MUST move on from its archaic practices, including its withholding of documentation which could be used to prosecute criminals.

    117
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    Mute Emilio
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:09 PM

    None of the good stuff, absolutely NONE of the good stuff the church has done required belief in a deity.

    117
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    Mute Paul Minogue
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:14 PM

    True that. It’s hard to imagine the church without belief in a deity though and that’s a topic I love to discuss but it’s too far removed from what happened here. But I’m sure any evolution of the church nowadays would be a good thing – most ideas meander away from evil in the modern world. But it needs to begin.

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    Mute The Irish Bull
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:56 PM

    Beyond evil

    77
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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:59 PM

    There is little Christianity in the Church, especially in the Church of the 1950′s.

    Adding to the neglect and malnutrition to dump their bodies in to a septic tank was the work of profoundly evil people.

    Genuinely evil people did this.

    163
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    Mute Kate Ellen Egan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:14 PM

    For every unwed mother there was a father and two sets of grandparents , where were they ? Did they never ask what happened to their flesh and blood ?

    181
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    Mute Paul Minogue
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:27 PM

    Not for every unwed mother, but for most.

    There are plenty people to blame, yes, but when you have 796 bodies it’s best to look for a common denominator – that way it may be prevented in the future.

    55
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    Mute Paul Minogue
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:37 PM

    I’ll restate that. When you have 796 bodies each deserves to be treated separately and thoroughly. In addition though the common factor needs to be determined.

    38
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    Mute John Horan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 4:42 PM

    @ Paul, They are only too happy to engage in moral relativism when it suits them apparently.
    “Father Fintan Monaghan, secretary of the Tuam archediocese, says: “I suppose we can’t really judge the past from our point of view, from our lens.”
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/04/children-galway-mass-graves-ireland-catholic-church

    36
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    Mute John Curry
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    Jun 4th 2014, 4:44 PM

    Looks like Ian Paisley was right after all.

    45
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    Mute Kate Ellen Egan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 6:11 PM

    Not too sure about that John Curry, many unanswered questions about the Kincora

    13
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    Mute Kate Ellen Egan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 6:15 PM

    The country was dominated and ruled by Maynooth and John Charles , even De Valera was terrified of them, what hope did the uneducated peasants have except for Noel Browne ?

    32
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    Mute Nora Hurley
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    Jun 4th 2014, 6:39 PM

    This is exactly how I feel — no matter how many times I try to remind myself what is (or once was) good about the Catholic Church, these stories keep cropping up and Catholics (but not true Christians) defend these crimes, or try to deflect from them, or spin them into a story about something else. It’s a losing game, less and less Christ, more and more pride and arrogance and ego.

    The Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on God, and cannot decide who is and isn’t worthy of God, or on what terms people can approach, seek and communicate with God.

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    Mute JPS
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:18 PM

    Glad you’ve seen sense Kevin

    8
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    Mute Ian Mac Eochagáin
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    Jun 4th 2014, 11:54 AM

    The world is talking about it, but Irish people, it seems, just don’t want to go there. For shame!

    581
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    Mute Martin Bishop
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:01 PM

    RTE & Co just seem to see it as business as usual back then, hence its not a news worthy item to report.

    Nobody will see jail time for this, any remaining victims (mothers) will likely never get a penny,

    People will continue to blindly support the catholic church and all it stands for, The catholic church will continue to road block any and all national and international investigations.

    So…it is business as usual :(

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    Mute Reality Cheque
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:23 PM

    The media and governmental silence on this in Ireland only adds to the shame. Well done to The Journal for continuing to cover this, please don’t let up until something is done about this.

    Martin,
    The way the Magdalene and Bethany survivors have been treated and stalled from any resolution does not bode well for anybody being held to account.

    I simply cannot believe that this story came to light as a result of Catherine Corles being unable to raise sufficient funds for a memorial stone. What part of a “mass grave with the bodies of nearly 800 children” did people not hear first time around. This grave, and the others that will be discovered, are crime scenes and should be treated as such. The horror that this is, is almost too much to take in.

    Here is a link to coverage in The Guardian today: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/04/children-galway-mass-graves-ireland-catholic-church?CMP=fb_gu

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:26 PM

    It was on RTE news the other night, but added on at the end as a human interest piece almost. It should, of course, have been the main headline.

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    Mute George Grey
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:52 PM

    Now wait for the inevitable horror movie that surely will follow. When people reflect on concentration camps in the second world war it was common enough to say ( the closer you were to it) that “we had no idea”. But that never did or does wash. It was a whole nation lifting the carpet for their sins to be swept under. Not only murdered…but little children buried in a mass grave. How? Why?

    106
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    Mute John Bawn
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:57 PM

    Why does the world continue to allow late term abortions , same shameful cruel thing .

    40
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    Mute Ailís McKernan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:00 PM

    Is it fair to lay the blame solely at the feet of the Catholic church. They wouldn’t get away with it without the collusion or tolerance of the government and the silence and passivity of too many of the Irish public. Catholic church are not the only culpable ones. It’s the responsibility of all of us to ensure justice is wrought on behalf of the dead.

    140
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    Mute The Badger
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:01 PM

    Oh wait it has to go on Joe Duffy before its a real story in Ireland, I mean 800 dead infants in a septic tank some left to die because they were sick their only crime being born to an unmarried mother pales in significance to someone’s bins not being collected 2 weeks in a row. This country is a joke

    165
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    Mute Reality Cheque
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:05 PM

    George,

    It was a combination of state and church control measures that society internalised and used to police public morality. A woman who got pregnant outside of marriage was not only a shame to herself, but to her family because of screwed up Catholic beliefs about something as completely natural as sex. Also, this issue relates to poverty. Some families would put their daughters into homes such as these for the baby to be adopted because they simply did not have the money to feed any more mouths. None of this would have happened to this extent if people had the means to control the amount of children they had in the first place. Babies and children who could not be adopted for money, for whatever reason, were quite literally useless, considered a drain on the resources of the home, left to die and dumped in a mass hole in the ground. A eugenic programme run by the Church, supported by the State and enabled by the people.

    128
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    Mute Dermot Bohan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:07 PM

    Did it focus on the dead babies or the need for a memorial stone? The report I saw on RTE was all about the memorial stone and glossed over what the memorial was actually for as something that had been done and dusted.

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:11 PM

    Dermot Bohan yeah it concentrated more on erecting a memorial

    57
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    Mute Katie Does
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:15 PM

    Yes there was government collusion, yes people knew and said nothing. Why though? Every time you dig into that you inevitably come back to the malign influence of the church.

    They had massive (almost total) say in what went into our laws, pretty much everyone in power – TDs, senior civil servants, senior gardai, the judiciary – was beholden to the Catholic church, not to mention essentially brainwashed due to the church stranglehold on education. Ditto with ordinary people, who were further essentially ruled by the local priest who could basically make their lives a misery if by some miracle they retained sufficient independence of mind to out of line.

    Their influence was all-prevasive – there was no media but Catholic approved media, no dissenting voices were allowed. It was really soviet level mind control.

    I’m not excusing people, just pointing out that no matter what way you parse it, it keeps coming back to the church every single time.

    And remember – UNBELIEVABLY – these very same people STILL run and control the ethos of most of our schools, where they STILL go on about the ‘religious formation’ of pupils being at the heart of their work, though fortunately today there are plenty of other influences to counter their attempts at brainwashing. Ditto hospitals and of many of our charitable institutions.

    And just a small scratch below the surface they hold very same opinions and beliefs now as they did then.

    100
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    Mute John Bawn
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:19 PM

    In Victoria Australia a girl can have an abortion on demand up to 24 weeks and get this- ,

    if a girl gets a cert from two Doctors she can terminate right up to the DAY OF BIRTH.

    Believe this or not but it is true .

    All she has to do is claim she will self harm, then she gets the two certs , no Doctor will leave himself open to litigation.
    Btw there were only 50 Babies up for adoption in the U.K. In 2013
    Where are all those defenceless human babies ?
    All gone up in smoke in the Medi-waste incinerators .
    Who speaks for them?

    33
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    Mute onlyforthejournal
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:19 PM

    Oh for f@ck sake John. Not the time or place to open that debate.

    217
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    Mute Reality Cheque
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:22 PM

    Dermot,

    That is the thing that is truly incomprehensible, the initial coverage concentrated on the memorial stone, not on the discovery of the bones of nearly 800 babies and children. I cannot get my head around the fact it was a little “by the way” kind of an item tagged on to the end of the news report. I mean … 800 children in a septic tank!!!! I’m sorry, it is just entirely mad. When Catherine Corless was saying to people, would you be able to spare a few euros for the grave of 800 babies and children, what were people thinking? How could this in any way be an acceptable thing for our ears to hear? It is beyond belief, really.

    80
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    Mute Katie Does
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:26 PM

    @John you are comparing apples and oranges, but I’ll answer one question:

    “Where are all those defenceless human babies ?”

    They are with their mothers. It is no longer necessary if you are pregnant and not married to be shamed into an institution, to keep your pregnancy a secret or to hand over your baby to be killed or sold by the church. You can raise your child free (for the most part) of the approbation of society.

    I am sick of you and your like bringing abortion into this issue. It assumes WAY too much, it assumes that the women who went into homes didn’t want to keep their children. It assumes that you STILL think women should not have autonomy over their bodies and their sexuality – because that’s what was removed from them then and what you want to remove from them still.

    You and your like are simply part of the small and thankfully shrinking minority who share the mindset that let evil such as this thrive, and that is nothing to be proud of.

    194
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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:28 PM

    So by your logic what the Bon Secours nuns did in Tuam is ok because women in Australia have abortions.

    131
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    Mute Ciaran Morgan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:35 PM

    Katie, don’t use this abhorrent act to push your agenda for control of schools.

    12
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    Mute Oliver Moran
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:35 PM

    I’m actually finding this very difficult to process.

    800 bodies is of the order of the worst mass graves uncovered following the genocides in the former Yugoslav.

    We are at the order now of genocide.

    At this point we cannot continue to blame the Church alone. We have to ask ourselves now (more seriously than we did before) how we are to blame – just as the German people bear the guilt of the actions of the Nazis and SS.

    137
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    Mute John Bawn
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:38 PM

    Onlyforthejournal

    Not the time or place ?

    Does this inconvenient truth make you uncomfortable ?

    When or where IS the time or place ?

    BTW (no need for foul mouthed bad language)

    11
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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:38 PM

    Katie yes the malign fingerprints of the church are all over this: their disdain of women and the sexual act in particular. There was no gun held to people’s head by the church tho. Individuals and society put up with the treatment of women and children in this way because it suited them to.
    Besides people disobeyed the churches teaching on others matters. In rural areas house dances were common despite the churches opposition and people being “read from the altar” for having them. Getting rat arsed drunk is a sin, it didn’t stop people doing it. Monto was the biggest red light district in Europe, in so called holy catholic Ireland.
    But you’re right that the churches obsession with sex ( where did Jesus order that?), was a major factor on society. And you can’t rule out either, that the suppression of natural sexual urges in the men and women who made up the clergy and nuns, and subsequent sexual frustration, might have been partially responsible for their warped behaviour towards what they considered ‘fallen women’ and their kids.

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    Mute Ian Mac Eochagáin
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:55 PM

    Oliver, you’re right. I also thought of Srebrenica and other Balkan horror stories when I heard this news. Granted, this is a tenth of the numbers at Srebrenica and these babies did not die all at the same time, rather, it seems, on average once a fortnight, but the very words “mass grave” to us, born in the twentieth century, should send shivers down our spine. Mass graves are from zones of war and genocide. Absolutely mindblowing.

    65
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    Mute The Doctor
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:08 PM

    John, your petty attempts to divert the story of yet another atrocity varied out by your evil church won’t work.

    When the history of the church is written, it will be remembered as an organisation on par with the nazis.

    94
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    Mute paddy dunne
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:30 PM

    Ciaran,as a private individual Katie’s not wanting control of the schools,she just wants them freed from the Grip of a totally discredited organisation :The Catholic Church ;yet I’m sure she’d do a better job than any Nun,priest or bishop.

    61
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    Mute John Bawn
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:32 PM

    The Doctor
    You are proving Godwin’s law is true .
    Funny you should mention the Nazis they used the same type of incinerators as the Medi-waste use to permanently dispose of all those aborted babies.
    Who said it was My Church ?
    I am simply pointing out the gross hypocrisy.

    9
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    Mute Sheik Yahbouti
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:00 PM

    John, just don’t annoy me – leave your hobby horse for a different thread. I do understand, however, that since these children were already born their sufferings before their untimely death don’t matter to you and your ilk.

    85
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    Mute The Doctor
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:17 PM

    John

    It is your church. At least man up and admit it. Coward.

    And your Godwin’s law rubbish doesn’t change a single thing I said.

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    Mute Marlon Brando
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:44 PM

    This person is a troll, please ignore.

    32
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    Mute John Bawn
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:55 PM

    Name calling now, are we?
    Herr Doctor.

    I don’t have a church.

    The Dead are just that, Dead there is nothing we can do for them now except pity the sickening injustice and cruelty they endured .
    But very few people of your ilk are speaking up for the sickening injustice and cruelty that is continuing on a daily basis in the guise of family planning today .
    Just ask yourself HOW IS A LATE TETM ABORTION PERFORMED ?
    You can witness it on a site called Truthtube but if u are Squamish I would not recommend it , like witnessing what happens to those poor babies on the lead article .
    While so many childless couples live in empty houses with empty hearts .

    12
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    Mute Brian Madden
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    Jun 4th 2014, 4:04 PM

    @john, the situation re abortion in Australia is a separate issue. If you think that a crime has been committed by the Australian authorities then perhaps you could raise it with the minister of foreign affairs, the Australian embassy in Dublin or the Australian government in Canberra.

    51
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    Mute onlyforthejournal
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    Jun 4th 2014, 4:18 PM

    @john Bawn. Not the time or the place at all, not in the slightest. This article is about children and infants in state/church left to get gravely ill and die and then discarded into a mass grave. How does abortion come into this?? Explain please? Actually what u might find is the very religion that bans abortion is responsible for this atrocity, your beloved Catholicism. Suffer little children come to me…

    53
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    Mute onlyforthejournal
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    Jun 4th 2014, 4:22 PM

    Cruelty in the guise of family planning?! Are u for real!
    Get off your soapbox and engage your brain for a moment.. so family planning i.e the contraceptive pill, is cruelty?!
    That’s actually kind of funny John. You’re an awful sap

    43
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    Mute John Bawn
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    Jun 4th 2014, 4:30 PM

    Brian sadly it is NOT against the law in Victoria
    It really does allow terminations with NO time limit .
    The Law was introduced a few years ago , table by the Greens but not opposed by either of the two other major parties, it was passed unamended .
    Even the Greens themselves were surprised, They asked for the lot expecting to get some , but now it’s the LAW
    No time limit for terminating a pregnancy in The state of Victoria
    Australia.

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    Mute John Bawn
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    Jun 4th 2014, 4:43 PM

    Nothing whatsoever to do with the pill. Nothing to do with family planning.
    All to do wit late term abortions fer performed at or through family planning CLINICS
    Please read postings properly before you start rage typing.

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    Mute Brian Madden
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    Jun 4th 2014, 5:11 PM

    John, I really don’t see that abortion in Australia is relevant to an article about bodies being found in a septic tank in the west of Ireland.

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    Mute onlyforthejournal
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    Jun 4th 2014, 5:30 PM

    John please read your own post before trying to reply with a smart answer.you clearly say its under the guise of family planning, not family planning clinic. While we’re discussing your ridiculous post I’ll also point out that the clinic u are most likely referring to IS a family planning clinic…unless I’m mistaken and fertility treatment, vastectomies and contraception advice are actually abortions?! Didn’t think so…

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    Mute John Bawn
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:42 PM

    I am talking about Your local clinic , there is a big wide world out there , when legislation is changed your local clinic will be the first port of call for a referral to the abortion clinic.

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    Mute John Bawn
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:44 PM

    Should read . Am NOT talking about Your local Clinic……

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    Mute Ian Mac Eochagáin
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:56 PM

    Stop diverting the conversation. This is not an article about abortion. We should be talking about the roots of the type of evil that lead to children being left to die of curable diseases and then discarded in an unmarked mass grave.

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    Mute John Bawn
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    Jun 4th 2014, 10:35 PM

    Ian , do you really not see the similarities, the rest of the western world is pointing the finger at Ireland while they dispose of their unwanted in a similar fashion, late term terminations are taken out and left to die .
    There really is very little difference .

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    Mute Denise Houlihan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 11:14 PM

    They are not the only culpable ones but they have to take a large proportion of the blame for many reasons. They set the tone with their dogma, they controlled the decisions of government and had a very strong and active part in the running and teachings of the education system and our health system, to the detriment of women and children. They were paid to look after these children. To educate, heat, clothe and nourish them. They failed utterly to honour their side of that contract and therefore stole money from the citizens and tax payers. I would go so far as to say that many of these children died of manslaughter and even murder. No one will ever know truly how these children met their end, with not an ounce of dignity or respect shown to them, even in death. Yes, the government turned a blind eye as did society but the church had an active role and direct contact with these children and their mothers, profited from it hugely and failed abysmally. They are mostly to blame.

    This is Ireland’s holocaust. Codladh sámh baby boys and girls.

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    Mute onlyforthejournal
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    Jun 4th 2014, 11:57 PM

    Similar fashion?! So they’re letting children and babies die of disease and malnutrition and then throwing them into mass graves? John you are an absolute plank. Abortion debate has no place here. Back into the 1940s with you, that’s the only place for your small minded, one sided tripe of an argument. To think u have rights over anyone else’s body and their decisions, shame on you.

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    Mute onlyforthejournal
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    Jun 4th 2014, 11:58 PM

    I never said it was my local clinic!

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    Mute John Murphy
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    Jun 5th 2014, 12:13 AM

    Iceland has an un married birth rate of 75%. They are loved and accepted just as much as children from a married couple. But Iceland is not a Catholic country…it is hugely Lutheran, but only 5% go to church! Seems the farther we get from religious domination, the more civilized we become.

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    Mute Ian Mac Eochagáin
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    Jun 5th 2014, 8:51 AM

    John: you want to talk about abortion? Fine, let’s talk. Let’s talk about a state and a society which has for too long treated its women as second-class citizens, as dangers to public morality, as potential slaves and mothers of traffickable offspring, as non-autonomous barely-beings with very little say over their own bodies. How do you feel being a member of that kind of society? You have a point in that abortion and the Tuam babies are linked. Now try to answer some difficult questions about how Irish society and the Catholic church have treated women.

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    Mute Eoin O'Hagan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:20 PM

    What about the hundreds of thousands of babies in unmarked graves in “cillìni” or “kyles” in every parish in Ireland. Babies who were stillborn or died before being christened. The tears,the shame, the anger, the guilt of thousands of Irish families who were unable to bury their child in the family grave. Buried in a field outside the parish graveyard because of this thing called “Original Sin”. How could a poor innocent child be a sinner ?

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:02 PM

    That anger, shame, hurt, guilt is passed down from generation to generation by damaged people who damage their own with anger, the engine of dysfunctional families.

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    Mute Sean P
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    Jun 4th 2014, 5:02 PM

    “How could a poor innocent child be a sinner ?”

    How could any parent agree to this form of “burial”?

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    Mute Barry Ryan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:01 PM

    Good! Might shame the Irish media into giving it a bit more coverage. Have to say, fair play to the Journal, seen more articles on this than all the other Irish news agencies combined in the last week.

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    Mute John Vlme
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:18 PM

    Indeed. This should have been on the front page of every newspaper and at the top of every broadcast. Instead, we have endless inanities about who will be the next leader of the Labour party. F**ked up beyond belief.

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    Mute Gaius Gracchus
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:47 PM
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    Mute Jane Travers
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:02 PM

    At times like this I’m ashamed to be Irish, but bloody proud to have defected formally from the catholic church. Get that cult out of our schools and away from children in their formative years!

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    Mute Martin Bishop
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:04 PM

    Catholic church isn’t fit to run anything that involves children, their track record is bloody awful.

    If the GAA had this many victims of abuse over the decades and refused to co-operate with investigations and compensate victims they’d be shut down as an organisation.

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    Mute Jane Travers
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:06 PM

    Good analogy Martin and quite right.

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    Mute Gavin Lawlor
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:19 PM

    About 10 years ago I visited the killing fields and Tuol Sleng concentration camp in Cambodia. I think being brought to the killing fields was probably a welcome end to the horror they had endured in Tuol Sleng where torture was a daily regime and people were caged and treated worse than animals. Both were a very eye opening experience and something I’ll never forget. In the killing fields there was a tree that my guide brought to my attention. He told me that it was used to kill babies. The Khmer Rouge would bash them against the tree to kill them. This was probably the most unbelievable thing I’d heard at the time and still is. I remember thinking that Pol Pot the leader of the Khmer Rouge and his regime were a bunch of complete psychopaths and had committed some of the worst crimes against humanity since Hitler and the Nazis. I counted myself lucky that I would never have to endure such horror in my life or in my country. I was partly right. I most likely will never endure such horror in my lifetime but it seems I was incorrect assuming such atrocities would not happen in Ireland. Treatment of mothers and the murder of their offspring by a respected establishment was seen as less of a crime than giving birth out of wedlock. The Catholic Church is responsible and needs to answer for these atrocities. They’ve brought shame to themselves and the country yet again. The state also allowed this to happen. It must be investigated to bring some kind of justice for all involved.

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    Mute Rick
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:29 PM

    Well said Gavin. I applaud your honesty.

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    Mute Reality Cheque
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:33 PM

    Gavin,

    Some people will say that you are over-stating the case to compare this event to war crimes. However, I completely agree with you. It is a horror of such proportions. Babies and children cast into unconsecrated ground by the religious because their mothers had sex outside of church sanctioned marriage, thrown into the ground by the very same people who would continue to deny a woman rights over her reproductive body and sexuality. Whether one is religious or not, I am not, almost every civilisation since time immemorial has performed a funeral rite over the dead.

    The only way that justice will be brought to bear on this horror is if we continue to bring it to light and refuse to remain silent. It is a national shame of epic proportion.

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    Mute Katie Does
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:02 PM

    It seems the only way to get the government or Irish main stream media to treat this with the seriousness it deserves is to get the international media to shame them into it. No wonder they are mad to control social media – without it this whole thing would have remained a secret, which would have suited them just fine.

    I think Andrew Sullivan’s piece on The Dish is one of the best I’ve seen, uncompromising in calling it what it is:
    http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/06/03/catholicisms-crimes-against-humanity/

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    Mute Marty Borgnine
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:06 PM

    Yet another shameful legacy of our Catholic Church. Just looking and the poor innocent little faces in that picture makes me wonder what sad and lonely fate befell them. It’s too upsetting to even think about it.

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    Mute Eva Vens
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:07 PM

    What a shame, for a so-called civilised country that stayed silenced, forbids abortion but just let living children die. And done by people that say they are christian? Did these sitsers think they had the right to decide about life and death?

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    Mute Katie Does
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:30 PM

    Nothing much has changed either. It was all about their twin obsessions with sexuality and the control of women. It still is. None of the laws or opinions of the church have changed in any respect on either of those matters.

    The reality is they know most people – even those who still identify as Catholic – just completely ignore their teaching and get on with living their lives any way they see fit. But that does NOT mean they don’t still see anyone having a baby (or even sex) outside of marriage as a sinner, it does NOT mean that they don’t want to control women’s fertility, it does NOT mean they don’t want be allowed to decide who can have sex with who, under what circumstances and in what way, it does NOT mean they want to decide who can marry who.

    It most definitely does NOT mean they are not still after those brazen sinful hussies – sexually active women, only now they do it under careful cover and with careful spin, so that it’s not so obvious what the real agenda is – the prime example of this being Ruhama, which is directly controlled and run by the EXACT same orders of nuns who ran the most Magdelan homes and in spite of what you might have been led to believe is mainly concerned with saving women from sin.

    They haven’t let up at all, they are just, thankfully, less relevant with each passing year.

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    Mute Paddy Hannigan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:31 PM

    @katie.Rhuma seem to be RTE’s go to group on womens issues. Just made the connection as to why they aren’t running with this story.

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    Mute JakkiB
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:14 PM

    Let’s not forget it is not only the church but also the Garda and the state that have been involved in many cover ups in Ireland, As for our main stream media…Well to this day it is a propaganda run machine, So many horrific stories have been swept under the carpet here, International coverage is a good thing and a reminder that we as a nation should hang our head in shame

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:40 PM

    This is a matter of deep shame not just for the church but for the Irish people as a whole.
    The priests and nuns involved were Irish. The judges, guards, parents and grandparents of the pregnant girls and their their poor children were Irish. The TDs who discussed this in the dail at the time and them did nothing were Irish. The tradesmen, shopkeepers, delivery men etc who serviced these homes were Irish. The doctors who ignored the sufferings and injuries were Irish. The list goes on.
    Society not only allowed this to happen but knew it was happening and such was the shame and guilt associated, it was more convenient to turn a blind eye

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    Mute James Greene
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:10 PM

    800 children in one septic tank. That’s almost a quarter of the total deaths in the ‘troubles’ over 30 years. It’s more than the number of British Soldiers killed throughout the troubles. Yet most of the media in this country won’t talk about it, the Government will do nothing about it and while the IRA are illegal (and rightly so in my opinion) the Roman Catholic Church have an embassy in the Country, they will try tell us how we should lead our lives, people will continue to go to their masses, and will continue to put money into this sick corrupt organisation.

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    Mute Daisy Chainsaw
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:24 PM

    #800deadbabies thrown out with the trash and it’s a “social history project”.

    If it were as many as 8 dead nuns starved, neglected and dumped in a septic tank, the usual suspects would be screaming from the rooftops.

    All life is precious (unless it’s a little ba$tard born to a dirty unmarried strumpet)

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    Mute Ian Mac Eochagáin
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:02 PM

    I thought that “social history project” suggestion was extremely crass.

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    Mute Mark Malone
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:07 PM

    Social media and independent media within Ireland have been miles ahead on this.
    “Rabble” and even satirical site “Waterford Whispers” have hard hatting analysis and comment whilst IT has CTRL +C , CTRL+V on press releases from an archbishop and a TD. RTE meanwhile contextualises the import of almost 800 child remains with the story of how one man wasnt actually starved to death. Gotta have balance around all those starved and neglected kids huh?

    Also this has been written. “Mass Grave of 800 Babies is Too Uncomfortable for Official Ireland” well worth the read.
    https://medium.com/@gwen_boyle/mass-grave-of-almost-800-babies-is-too-uncomfortable-for-official-ireland-92fd3b41e649

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    Mute Ian Mac Eochagáin
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:01 PM

    Thanks for that link Mark. She hits the nail on the head, especially when she reminds us that the idea of a “social history project” was floated when this news broke. I’m sorry, that’s just unacceptable. A social history project sounds like something little kids do in an afternoon in fourth class! A pleasing, educational-ish exercise. Breathtakingly crass.

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    Mute Jane Travers
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:50 PM

    Mark, that’s a really excellent piece by Gwen Boyle. Thanks for the link.

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    Mute Rick
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:23 PM

    I for one am glad the world really sees us for what we are. A bunch of ostriches who bury our heads in the sand and hope it all goes away. It’s time to fight back. Children in this country in 2014 still go to bed hungry. We don’t have a government that genuinely cares for its people. We are a subservient race who bows to pear pressure. Some of the best warriors on the planet are Irish. Unfortunately they fight for others. It’s time we stood together and fought back against the criminality of State and Church on our people. Just think of those 800 children thrown into a septic tank. Starved to death in some cases. Some could have still being buried alive for all we know. It is so inhumane.

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    Mute Rick
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:27 PM

    I meant pier pressure not pear pressure. I’m fruity enough.

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    Mute The Man of Arán
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:31 PM

    Peer pressure, maybe? (Sorry !)

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    Mute Rick
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:39 PM

    Thanks buddy. I’m so wound up I can’t even spell properly.

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    Mute The Man of Arán
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:44 PM

    Understandable!

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    Mute Danny Rigg
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:40 PM

    This is what happens when Catholicism rules in Ireland…and there are still people who like Lucinda Creighton

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    Mute Gill B
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:15 PM

    #whoare800babiesinGalway

    They deserve to be named, buried and given a headstone at grave in Angel plot.

    In which the Nuns of Bon Secour should pay for, furthermore investigation should take place by the Human Rights Commissionaire.

    Evil prevails because good people stand by and say nothing !!!

    When will Christian stop following false Gods (Pope, Priests). Start speaking to their God through themselves.

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    Mute Jose Verano
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:40 PM

    The Church of Rome has destroyed more lives and killed more people than Al Qaeda ever could. It should be immediately classed as a terrorist organisation, forcibly disbanded, all assets seized and charged with numerous counts of genocide. The Crusades: genocide. The Magdalene Concentration Camps: genocide.

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    Mute Pickart Solny
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:28 PM

    The newly formed Republic shows how they treat the most vulnerable in our society. The Unionists said that Home Rule would be Rome Rule; the Nationalists scoffed at such an idea. Who was right? The RCC and the State have a lot to answer for.

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    Mute Rachel Boyers
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:13 PM

    I heard people saying that there are places like this all over the country.I don’t know how much truth there is to it,But if it is then the number of children buried in unmarked mass graves must be truly horrifying.

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    Mute L o' Reilly
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:28 PM

    Our cowardly government still afraid of upsetting the church. 800 kids lives lost and no statement on it. It’s a fuking shame and it needs to be addressed now. Some people have to be held accountable for all this it’s not going go away!

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    Mute Jack Green
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:50 PM

    That was normal then,in Ireland. Shh…be quite,what will Mary down the road say?

    Priests raped children in their care. Nuns used a septic tank as a grave for children who died in their orphanage.

    Blame Irish families that threw their daughters out if they got pregnant. For them was more important what will neighbor Mary say. Jesus Christ !

    Sick.

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    Mute Mick Early
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:26 PM

    I find it bizarre that this hateful tragedy has seemed to get so little press in Ireland. I read the Irish news every day and the first I heard of it was from the Wa PO! Even today’s Irish Independent, nothing!! What’s going on?? RTE, nothing? We’re more concerned with Noonans cancer than dealing with a cancer I’m society!!

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    Mute Reality Cheque
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:28 PM

    Completely agree with you Mick.

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    Mute Dean Anderson
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:43 PM

    I think some in the media are anxious not to be seen to be “church bashing ” etc. iIn the wake of the Irish Times cartoon controversy etc. They need to wake up if that’s the reason though. Dumping 800 children into a sewer is the sign if a very evil and twisted organisation.

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    Mute Paddy Hannigan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:36 PM

    If there were any time to bash an organisation is was the child sexual abuse revelations.Now its time to put the CC out of our misery once and for all.

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    Mute Mal
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    Jun 5th 2014, 3:44 PM

    It’s gotten most coverage on blogs.

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    Mute James O'mahony
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:22 PM

    Sickening. If this was anywhere else in the world there would be uproar. Disgusting behaviour by our governement not to have investigated or reported on this before now.

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    Mute LesBehan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:54 PM

    “Father Fintan Monaghan, secretary of the Tuam archediocese, says: “I suppose we can’t really judge the past from our point of view, from our lens. All we can do is mark it appropriately and make sure there is a suitable place here where people can come and remember the babies that died.”

    Speaking of it like it was some tragic accident or something. Disgraceful but not surprising from the Catholic church.

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    Mute Dean Anderson
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:12 PM

    As with the perpetrators of any vile crime – paedophiles etc- their only regret is getting caught. Talking about a moral lens is really a bit rich coming from an organisation that is totally bereft of morality. The catholic church’s history has always been of an amoral, evil and money mad septic tank of filth. It’s persecution of Jews, women (burning them as witches) non-catholics etc. and it’s condemnation of scientific and industrial progress at every step of the human journey is breathtaking. It has condemned human rights, workers rights, trade unions, gay rights. It’s condemned the modern world : TV radio etc.

    God sometimes I wonder why I never defected when I had the chance….. They closed off that route because so many were leaving.

    OK rant over

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:47 PM

    Ask Fr. Fintan Monaghan if he would like the bodies of his Mother or Father tossed in to a septic tank, a human waste tank.

    That is the way I look at it from my Lens, so it should be ok then Fintan?

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    Mute LesBehan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:50 PM

    It boggles the mind that there are people who still equate this institution of evil and the teachings of Christ as being the same. It becomes more apparent that you can not be a follower of Christ in the truest sense and be a Catholic.

    At the risk of evoking Godwin’s Law but I fail to see the difference between the people that blindly followed the Nazi’s and people who still blindly follow the church? You support an evil institution to the point where you make excuses for it’s behaviour, it’s wealth, it’s quasi monarchism (just following orders = just doing my Christian duty.)

    “Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”" Matthew 19:14.

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    Mute Rachel O' Meara
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:34 PM

    Today for the first time ever in my life I’m ashamed to be Irish! There are no words to describe the utter disgust that this happened nor no words as to why the government are burying their heads in the sand over this. If this happened in another country it would be plastered all over every Irish newspaper and across our tv screens on the six one! To quote Enda himself: “I am not a catholic taoiseach but a taoiseach that happens to be catholic” I think now more than ever we know this to be false! Wear your religion with pride taoiseach, the same religion that committed this crime and some of the most awful atrocities right across the world. Religion continues to be a part of our culture it’s enshrined in our constitution, in our schools, in our hospitals, on all levels right up to the people that run our country! Now more than ever we need to break from religion, all religion, for progression, for equality, for fairness and to atone for the sins of our past! For those little children whose only crime was to be conceived outside of a man made ceremony! If there is indeed a god then I’d rather stand against him and his crimes than take his side any day of the week!

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    Mute zebadie
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:05 PM

    Rachael, I feel your pain. Well said and don’t stop in your conviction.

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    Mute JakkiB
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:18 PM

    Yeah it’s not the only mass grave, Check any institution in Ireland and it will be the same

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    Mute Marko Burns
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:25 PM

    I guess some of us can count ourselves lucky we just go slapped or abused by christian brothers and nuns.

    The Catholic Church is still getting away with this no doubt in Africa with their indoctrination against condoms.

    And here – not that much has changed really – they still have control of our schools, with parents scrambling to place their children and get them baptised to be in with a shout of a place. Crazy stuff.

    I’m quite sure that more graves will be found in time – our very own Auschwitz and Belsen’s.

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    Mute Jose Verano
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:48 PM

    The church can now hold its head high with its new found fame as the biggest serial killer in Ireland.

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    Mute Anjelica Sommer
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:40 PM

    Lets not forget to “shame” the parents and families who put these young pregnant girls and their “illegitimate” children in these camps in the first place!! Lets not forget to “shame” all who knew what was going on and who did nothing (neigbours, schools, friends, clergy etc) And lets ask ourselves where would these girls have gone, who else would have taken them in ? I’m in absoloute no way condoning the behaviour of the nuns but scapegoating isn’t going to help. A time for reflection, for all of us, I think.

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    Mute Jane Travers
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:46 PM

    Bear in mind Angelica, it was because of the teachings of the catholic church that pregnancy out of wedlock was seen as shameful in the first place.

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    Mute Paul Minogue
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:55 PM

    “And lets ask ourselves where would these girls have gone, who else would have taken them in ?”

    Surely anywhere beats a septic tank.

    “I’m in absoloute no way condoning the behaviour of the nuns but scapegoating isn’t going to help.”

    It’s not called scapegoating here – it’s called being accountable. If you dump a child in septic tank you need to answer for that.

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    Mute Rachel Boyers
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:00 PM

    But people done this because they were brain washed.We seem to forget that people back then truly believed in the church’s teachings whose control was exercised through fear ,hell would be a scary place if it was real.The Vatican needs to be brought to justice.A proper investigation is needed the UN maybe?Whoever it is ,full access to their files is needed.Only then will the true scale of destruction caused by the Roman Catholic Church be revealed.

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    Mute Emily Elephant
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:17 PM

    The problem with this “let’s spread blame around to everyone” approach is that it ends up being so thin that no one is accountable.

    The basic facts are that the early Irish state outsourced many of its basic functions to the Catholic church. That church exercised almost total power over the life of the country, from economic policy down to individual social morality. People could be ostracised and impoverished at the whim of any upstart parish priest. And it answered to nobody. It regarded itself as above the law.

    All power attracts bad people, but when power is totalitarian, the abuse of people becomes inevitable. Whether it’s declaring those with controversial views “insane”, setting up concentration camps for the socially problematic, or simply ignoring the beatings and rapes handed out by those who are deemed pure.

    Yes, some people could have done more, just as those who stayed silent during Stalin’s purges have questions to ask themselves. But the institution which was ultimately responsible for this was the Catholic church, which actively sought out those powers and watched while they were deployed mercilessly. No amount of mea culpa or “they were different times” is going to make that go away.

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    Mute Anjelica Sommer
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:29 PM

    Jane, you are quite right, that was the way it was back then – unfortunately. Having said that no church ideal would ever make me choose between it and my child – my girl (if I had one) would always come first.

    Paul where would “anywhere” as you put it have been at the time ? They were outcasts, rejected by parents, family and friends – should they have died by the roadside ? My point is we can’t hold anyone accountable who isn’t alive. The whole lot is a crying shame. These children should now receive a proper burial.

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    Mute Paul Minogue
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:40 PM

    Anjelica, you pick a realistic “anywhere” at the time and I’ll contrast it then with the septic tank. Could they not have gone to the same place and be treated like dignified humans instead? Was that not an option, no?

    As for accountability, suppose (for example) the church were aware – that organisation is still around today, no different than if Ford committed atrocities in 1920 – they would still be accountable to some extent today if it came to light.

    If any government run service knew that 796 more people went in to that building than came out of it then they need to be held accountable for being an idiot.

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    Mute paddy dunne
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:11 PM

    But we can hold you responsible for preaching from your oh so high soapbox Anjilica .No doubt you’d scratch the eyes out of anyone who’d try to take away your child today;but in those times you’d have been just as cowed as the poor mothers who did have their babies so cruelly taken from them.Didn’t matter if it was working class,middle class or upper class,the church ruled absolutely .
    But apart from your self -delusion on that matter Anjelica I know you can imagine the life- long grief of those unfortunate mothers in time.

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    Mute Anjelica Sommer
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    Jun 4th 2014, 5:31 PM

    Tut tut Paddy no need to get personal or be degrading. I suggest you re-read what i wrote. The parents/families of those young girls and those who knew what was going on should also be put to shame. And i dont care which era they’re from – not even animals treat their young the way these girls or babies have treated. Have a nice evening.

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    Mute paddy dunne
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:47 PM

    You were personal Anjelica when you claimed that,unlike the downtrodden army of robbed women,feisty ole you would have fought the church,held on to your baby and won.Did you not think your foolish remark would pour more scorn on these so maligned ,humiliated, degraded and abandoned women.Worthless indeed they were,special one,to let religious creeps take away their precious baby..yes?.My dear mum was one of them Anjelica ,she gave birth to 14 more babies,she was no craven coward compared to your shining brave heroine,and she grieved all her life for her stolen child.Sorry if you think that’s degrading but I felt I had to stick up for her.

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    Mute Anjelica Sommer
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    Jun 4th 2014, 10:12 PM

    Paddy, truely and honestly sorry to hear about what happened your Mam and glad to hear she has you to defend her. I still feel you missed my point though – eveyone involved in this atrocity is responsible – but lets leave it at that.

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    Mute paddy dunne
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    Jun 4th 2014, 10:29 PM

    Thanks Anjelica , I believe she would have liked feisty ole you.

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    Mute Anjelica Sommer
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    Jun 4th 2014, 10:33 PM

    Ah Paddy she just might

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    Mute paddy dunne
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    Jun 4th 2014, 11:27 PM

    Thanks again Anjelica ,I’m sure she would: ’46 was her last baby.

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    Mute Anjelica Sommer
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    Jun 5th 2014, 6:23 AM

    That’s a few years ago, Is there a book in the making ? The rest of my sentence didn’t print, i had written ‘ah she just might my own story might make your jaw drop but another time for that….’ Have a lovely day Paddy :-)

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    Mute paddy dunne
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    Jun 5th 2014, 9:13 PM

    Your sentence was perfect,really,you couldn’t have made it better had you spent a week over it,broke me up. Amazing what an exquisite and heart felt choice of words can do Anjelica,almost as if the two of you were shaking hands!I I have a story too-no big deal-just the average fifties industrial school stuff,no book though.I believe you when you say your story would make my jaw drop,I think we’re a sorrowful people Anjelica,”All our wars are merry,And all our songs are sad” some poet wrote long ago.But I know,feisty one,you will,by choice,make Your Song merry!! Long day baby sitting,mrs and me,so I’ll get off my soapbox and high horse (sic) and bid you good night Anjelica :-)

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    Mute paddy dunne
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    Jun 6th 2014, 2:02 PM

    Nice to know we’re pals Anjelica,and to show that people can be decent to each other even do they may slightly disagree about something:There!much clearer than my last post I hope,very tired last night babysitting is some tough job,All the best to you and yours Anjelica : paddy.

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    Mute Christopher Reynolds
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:12 PM

    My brother heard it in delft Netherlands yesterday.

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    Mute nutzen cider
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:04 PM

    As the home was run by NUNS, I don’t suppose the victimhood-addiicted will be pushing a hashtag.

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    Mute aurilton
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:29 PM

    Painful, sad and sickening.
    This is a disgrace.

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    Mute Sheik Yahbouti
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:45 PM

    Great, let the whole world know about it, and comment on it. It might cut down on a little of the “we’re so great and who’s like us” nonsense. As much as I complain about our current society and situation, I thank all of the imaginary deities that I did not live during those times. Ireland was (and to a certain extent, still is) a cruel place for those who, like myself, comprise “the lower orders”. At least we have moved past the time when I, could throw my daughter on the streets because she was pregnant, for fear of “what the neighbours would say”. False piety, cruelty and hypocrisy have been the ruling conditions since the foundation of this Republic, which is not worthy of the name – let the world marvel at it, and let us learn from it.

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    Mute Ciaran Morgan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:36 PM

    Every one of these bodies should be exhumed and given the Christian burial they deserve, or maybe the bones should be displayed in a glass case in O’Connell street for all to see and remember the cruelty inflicted on poor Irish people by church and state,

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    Mute Dean Anderson
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:37 PM

    Don’t forget guys that Pope Francis is a really great guy who had a photo op with 4 homeless people -I mean- he had breakfast with 4 homeless people so don’t worry he’ll be sure to stage another photo op soon – I mean he’ll do do something to show how much the church has changed and how much it cares –about money

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    Mute Glen Marsden
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:30 PM

    This is nothing short of genocide on the part of the church and state!

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    Mute onlyforthejournal
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:17 PM

    Irish government still brushing it under the carpet. Some things don’t change.

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:31 PM

    “a 1944 local health board report described the children living at the Home as “emaciated,” “pot-bellied,” “fragile” and with “flesh hanging loosely on limbs.”

    The nuns murdered these children through deliberate neglect. Any Nun from the home should be thrown in to a septic tank today, whether they are dead or alive.

    http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/06/03/catholicisms-crimes-against-humanity/

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    Mute Bernard O'Leary
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:58 PM

    I’m surprised that The Journal didn’t use this feature to get in a dig at their Irish media rivals, who have utterly failed to cover this story. RTE in particular have been pathetic.

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:33 PM

    “That is not a sign of a church gone astray. It’s a sign of a church given over to evil. A church that leaves young children to die of malnutrition and then dumps hundreds of them into a mass grave is not a church. It’s an evil institution that robs the word “church” of any meaning, and twists the Gospels into their direct opposite.”

    http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/06/03/catholicisms-crimes-against-humanity/

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    Mute The Hungry Boards
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:09 PM

    I just had to comment as an Irish citizen I am ashamed. The church has no place in schools, I think out of respect for the children that have suffered and died at the hands of the church and out of respect for the children of today they should remove themselves and their teachings from all schools.
    How a state can sit by while these stories of utter cruelty continue to surface is just shameful.

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    Mute Jose Verano
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:04 PM

    If this happened in a Muslim country, RTE and the Irish “government” would be screaming blue bloody murder and calling for sanctions etc.

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    Mute Duncan Paul
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:43 PM

    First saw an article on this same day as local and European elections results day. It was released on a very busy news day hoping to be lost. Have seen little coverage on it on rte news sites until now.
    Something rotten about this.
    The silence in the Irish media and from politicians is astounding.
    It’s time the state took an objective stance at what happened to its citizens

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    Mute Maggie Elizabeth Walsh
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:24 PM

    I feel very ashamed and embarrassed to be Irish today. :(

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:42 PM

    What does that have to do with this.

    You can feel ashamed of who you are any other day, what has it got to do with this.

    That kind of national self loathing is a lot of the root of stories like this as well.

    Bit of self respect.

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    Mute Ian Mac Eochagáin
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    Jun 4th 2014, 10:02 PM

    I see where she’s coming from. I’m guessing she feels ashamed, as I do, of being a member of a nation capable of groupthink that can lead to such horrible crimes, and whose media establishment can then pretend nothing has happened. Maggie, is that true? Seanie, I see what you mean, and I agree that we need to find some self-respect, but I think we all need a moment to reflect on what we as a society and a people have inside us that makes such evil actions and inaction possible.

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    Mute Christopher Reynolds
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:12 PM

    My brother heard it in delft Netherlands yesterday.

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    Mute Adrian Rinehart-Balfe
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    Jun 4th 2014, 4:25 PM

    One must wonder if this is an isolated incident or the tip of a horrific iceberg? How many other institutions of this sort had similar practices?

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    Mute Seán A Haon
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:44 PM

    Why did their God let this happen?

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    Mute Frank
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    Jun 4th 2014, 11:58 AM

    A thread on GLP yesterday morning….

    http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2562225/pg1

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    Mute Adrian Rinehart-Balfe
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    Jun 4th 2014, 4:23 PM

    I have to wonder how many of these institutions have similar histories awaiting discovery? Is this an isolated incident or just the tip of the iceberg?

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    Mute matt Hanlon
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    Jun 4th 2014, 12:49 PM

    This is a very sad and shameful episode, however it is being used as a political football by some for points scoring.

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    Mute Reality Cheque
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    Jun 4th 2014, 1:27 PM

    How Matt? What politics? Calling Church and State to account on this matter is hardly political point scoring.

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    Mute SeanieRyan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 2:40 PM

    It is not very sad, it was very evil. Only an organization capable of immense evil could do this.

    It is a black mark on the Govt. of the time that this was let go on.

    What kind of damaged mind must you have to think it is is a political football?

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    Mute Sheik Yahbouti
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:19 PM

    By who, Matt? Who is using it as a political football? I have not seen any coverage which sought to make political points. Could it be you are worried about the party in power at the time of these atrocities? Don’t worry, no-one had mentioned it – until you did, of course.

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    Mute Ian Mac Eochagáin
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    Jun 4th 2014, 10:06 PM

    In a perverse way I almost wish it was a political football – at least then politicians would be talking about it!

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    Mute jkcdub
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    Jun 4th 2014, 7:02 PM

    Disgusting evil religion….the sooner it dies out the better….

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    Mute art cassidy
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    Jun 4th 2014, 7:48 PM

    The Irish people, citizens politicians teachers medical staff guards religious orders are collectively responsible. The mother and child had no chance in our Irish society of that era.

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    Mute Peter Martin
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:51 PM

    I have been living in this country for almost 70 years and this is the first time I have heard of such massive loss of life resulting from Catholic/ state collusion regarding matters such as this. I had no idea that those in charge of so called homes for unmarried mothers were capable of such criminal neglect resulting in the deaths of so many children. I expect that I’m not alone in this regard. It seems that the government want to downplay the seriousness of the matter. Nothing short of a full scale criminal investigation is necessary. The sooner the better.

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    Mute ColindeB
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    Jun 4th 2014, 6:45 PM

    Coverage abroad contrasts with the fairly meagre coverage it has received here. Took weeks before RTE even mentioned it.

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    Mute Seán O'Sullivan
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    Jun 4th 2014, 7:58 PM

    hardly surprising from rt ‘centre-right agenda’e

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    Mute Fiona Caomhánaigh
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:09 PM

    Worse than hitler

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    Mute Patrick Brompton
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    Jun 4th 2014, 3:55 PM

    I have a different perspective on this from most commenters for two reasons: first, a friend who grew up in Dundalk in the 1960′s and whose parents could not cope was put into a convent orphanage and, although it was not perfect, it proviided a shelter at a time when the State provided nothing; secondly, when I worked in Africa I saw Irish priests and nuns providing food, shelter, health services, education and vocational training to orphans and I never saw or heard of any cruelty or abuse by them. I would ask all of those people who are so keen to heap criticism and blame on the Catholic Church ‘What are you doing for the orphans in your community? For the single mothers? For the sick and disabled? For the homeless?’. If the answer is, as mine would be, ‘Nothing except pay my taxes and make the odd charity donation’, then maybe hesitate before criticising those who did something in times gone past, however badly by our current standards.

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    Mute Zoe Daly
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    Jun 4th 2014, 5:36 PM

    well said Patrick,
    My family too, was helped by the catholic church, at a difficult time in our lives.
    I will never forget them. They have helped many other families as well.
    But that does not count anymore. All the good done will be erased from Irish history.
    The Capuchin priest who gives food to hundreds of homeless and deprived people, in Dublin each day.
    It doesn’t count. Sadly He will be forgotten.

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    Mute Anjelica Sommer
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    Jun 4th 2014, 5:44 PM

    Well said Patrick…..

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    Mute JPS
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:25 PM

    Zoe the Zealot! Listen I’ll say it again its not a f@#king equation OK! Doesn’t matter if the Church does good it doesn’t cancel out the horrors it has committed! Get it into that indoctrinated head of yours! A good deed doesn’t cross out a wicked deed.Its life not mathematics.I’d say your insufferable.

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    Mute Shanti
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    Jun 4th 2014, 9:50 PM

    I know people who work in the aid sector. They spend time in the poorest parts of the world on a regular basis, and guess what? They have no affection for the catholic church. They see the same things that went on here – the priests live in relative luxury and are seen almost as lords, while they encourage the people who barely have enough for themselves to contribute as much as they can to their church. Just like the Ireland of old – everyone is out to be seen to give more. To be a “better catholic”..

    In this country you don’t have to speak to too many people to hear a story the polar opposite of your own. If anything, stories like yours and the capuchin monk Zoe refers to stand out because they are the rarities.

    The churches level of positive contribution to this country is increasingly becoming overshadowed by revelations of their nefarious deeds. So if you wish to view it as an equation, please bear in mind that the positive things you wish to allude to are dwindling.

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    Mute Patrick Brompton
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    Jun 4th 2014, 11:21 PM

    I too was an aid worker in Africa. Like the priests and sisters, I lived in ‘relative luxury’ in that I lived in a concrete block house with a cement floor when the Africans lived in straw huts. It was not remotely a luxurious way of life by modern Irish standards. I did my couple of years and came back to comfort. Some of the priests and sisters I worked with are still living and working in the same rough conditions more than 40 years later.
    I am not defending the neglect of the Tuam children. Those members of Irish society who have never ignored the mistreatment of children in care or who have never slept in sheets washed in a Magdalene laundry are, of course, at liberty to throw stones at the Bon Secours sisters.

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    Mute Adrian Rinehart-Balfe
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    Jun 4th 2014, 4:26 PM

    Sorry for the previous repetition

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    Mute Ray Renaghan
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    Jun 5th 2014, 11:10 PM

    I am an atheist man in my 30′s, I have a 2 year old daughter and every time I look at those pictures, I see her face looking back at me. I have felt sick to my stomach in the past when I read the “abuses” (horror and rape) that went on in the Church but this is a tipping point for me. I have tears running down my face looking at these pictures, in every face we must make ourselves see our children, brothers, sisters, etc.

    The trouble I now have is that so many Catholics in my family (of my parent’s generation) refuse to talk about this. They want to ignore it, to pretend it didn’t happen. Regardless of your beliefs, these innocent children deserve your acknowledgement, they deserve your respect, and they deserve to be remembered. The least we can all do is to learn how (little) they lived and how they died, each and every one of them.

    Is it too much to ask that full Church and State separation should come out of the last decade of revealed horrors?

    I am sorry for ranting, but I am finding this very hard to process.

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    Mute Trevor Curley
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    Jun 6th 2014, 9:39 AM

    After all the horrific child abuse the Catholic church has caused all over the world ,I was coming to terms with it and saying maybe the church has changed for the better ,even though this is a crime committed some time ago how can I in good in consence get my child baptized as a Catholic.

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    Mute Maureen Bean Considine
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    Jun 5th 2014, 9:05 PM

    Hi Everyone,

    A group of us are proposing to open the gates to the Magdalene Women’s Grave, in Sunday’s Well, Cork and make the surrounding area into a Memorial Garden. The proposal was with Cork City Council (the landowners) a year ago. Perhaps the new City Council will support the proposal if we show them how many people want this, please sign.

    Love and solidarity
    Maureen

    https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/cork-city-council-approve-the-proposal-to-create-a-memorial-park-at-the-magdalene-women-s-grave-sundays-well-cork-ireland#

    you can read the full proposal here…

    http://maureenconsidine.wordpress.com/2014/06/05/memorial-parkgarden-at-the-magdalene-womens-grave/?preview=true&preview_id=467&preview_nonce=dfffa4e7e4&post_format=standard

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