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THE SIX CANDIDATES for the leadership and deputy leadership of Labour gathered at the Radisson Blu Hotel near Dublin Airport last night along with up to 300 party members who came to hear what they had to say.
It was the first of five hustings events taking place as part of the month-long process of finding a successor to Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore and Joan Burton, the current deputy leader.
First up was the deputy leadership debate with TDs Ciara Conway and Michael McCarthy and junior ministers Seán Sherlock and Alan Kelly making their pitch. Then Joan Burton and Alex White went head-to-head.
All candidates set out their stall and answered the many, many questions that came from the passionate and outspoken audience of ordinary members, councillors, and former councillors.
TheJournal.ie was there for the full three and a bit hours of the debate and here is what we learned:
1. Sinn Féin dominated
There was a huge amount of discussion about Sinn Féin and the possibility of a future alliance with the party.
“There is still a Sinn Féin-IRA nexus,” Joan Burton said to loud applause from the audience as she set out clear distance from Alex White who said that although he “absolutely abhors” their economic policies he could not “absolutely exclude” Sinn Féin in any future coalition negotiations.
Aside from the leadership rivals, there was lots of targeting of Sinn Féin by the deputy hopefuls. Alan Kelly was probably strongest when he said that he would “absolutely not” go into government with the party, adding categorically: “They’re the enemy.”
Michael McCarthy said that Sinn Féin are “not economically serious ” and operate in a fairytale space while Seán Sherlock (below) said SF is a “populist, catch-all party”.
2. Joan Burton is focussed on a debt deal and helping the low-paid
“We have unfinished business with the EU,” Burton declared during her opening remarks, saying that she would press Ireland’s case for relief on our bank debt through negotiation “rather than carless confrontation”.
Burton also proposed a “low-pay commission” to examine the impact low pay has on society. She also talked again about her long-standing proposal for a living wage whereby people would have “the guarantee of a decent outcome”.
3. Alex White thinks missing the deficit target would be okay
The key line from the junior minister’s speech last night was that there can be “no question” of cutting €2 billion in the next Budget, and if that means missing the agreed deficit target of 3 per cent of GDP by 2015 “marginally or by a few months so be it I say”.
If he is Tánaiste White will have a tough time trying to pitch that idea to Fine Gael which has consistently said that whatever about the €2 billion in cuts, reaching the deficit target is sacred.
4. He also wants to decentralise the leadership
One of the big criticisms of the Gilmore regime, even before Labour went into government, has been the centralisation of power around the outgoing Tánaiste and his close advisors. White made a firm commitment to have a “much less centralised type of leadership”.
5. And is in favour of a wealth tax
“I think Labour should look to introduce a wealth tax,” White said last night. In the same way that Burton floats the idea of an undefined living wage, the junior health minister hopes his backing for an undefined wealth tax will help win votes.
6. Labour made mistakes – and they know it
There was widespread acknowledgement that Labour had made mistakes in government from all those who took part in both debates. In the deputy leadership husting, Seán Sherlock talked about being “in the trenches” for the past three years. Burton said that mistakes were made and that the recovery needs to be “felt in people’s pockets”.
7. The Tuam babies story came up
Joan Burton described the Tuam babies story as “another distributing, horrible legacy” from the institutions where Ireland once hid its “unwanted women and children”. She made the point that former Labour leader Frank Cluskey introduced payments for unmarried mothers.
Ciara Conway (below) was the only Labour deputy leadership candidate to refer to the Tuam babies story. She said that it was a “manifestation of official policy” and that this can lead to “heartless outcomes” even in the modern era, citing the medical cards debacle of recent months.
8. Members are angry
From the start of the audience participation the candidates were made fully aware of the anger that many members are feeling towards the party. “The reality is we don’t communicate,” one gentleman from Cabra said.
Another member got a round of applause when he made the point that it wasn’t Labour voters who left the party but the party that left those voters. The same member went as far as to compare the leadership contest to the reorganisation of the deckchairs on the Titanic and said that the choice facing members was picking one of two deckchairs.
9. Communications has been a problem
“There has been an absence of clarity from us… there has been an absence of visibility from us,” Alex White told members, many of whom had expressed a belief that the party has not been communicating effectively in government. Michael McCarthy made the point that Labour had taken 100 per cent of the blame in government despite having gotten only 20 per cent of the vote.
10. There was no doubt about what caused the election bloodbath
Dublin city councillor Mary Freehill described herself as a “survivor of the local elections” but there were plenty in the room we weren’t having lost their seats. Alan Kelly acknowledged that the medical cards and water charges controversies had cost people their seats. McCarthy (below) identified people being unhappy with the impact of coalition of government policy on their daily lives.
11. Alan Kelly is the deputy leader favourite for a reason
The Minister of State listed his achievements in government, firmly ruled out coalition with Sinn Féin and more than once agreed with members in the audience who voiced criticism, starting his answers with “I agree” or “you’re absolutely right”.
He had good soundbites – “I’m not obsessed with Sinn Féin, I’m obsessed with the Labour Party” – and talked about the need to give ordinary workers a break describing it as his “number one ambition”. He said all the right things and performed well but ultimately it’s about what the members actually make of him.
12. Would Labour go into government again?
Ciara Conway spoke of the need to address the disconnect between the Parliamentary Labour Party and members by reforming the way conferences are held. Michael McCarthy touched on the fact that the programme for government was only seen by members hours before it was rubber-stamped by a special conference in March 2011.
Hindsight is a great thing but there appeared to be an appetite among the candidates to reform the way Labour chooses to go into government in the future given the cost of doing it this time.
Sherlock also spoke a lot about the need to reconnect with the branch structure saying “the branch must become the core political unit of this party”. But Burton did later make the point that the best way of achieving progress is by being in government.
13. Alex will appoint Joan, but Joan won’t necessarily appoint Alex
There was an awkward moment towards the end of the debate as Alex White said he “certainly would” appoint Joan Burton to Cabinet if he is the next Labour leader. But could Burton make the same commitment?
“I will do my best to appoint the best people to government,” she said during a long, winding answer that didn’t actually contain any guarantee that she would appoint White to the big table.
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This problem starts at the top. It’s a common occurrence to see a professional footballer screaming obscenities at referees. Even now with VAR making decisions. Until that starts being punished, kids will do the same.
@Rocky: Yep, and managers attacking them on sky sports after games. The ref has always been seen as the villain in football. Monkey see; monkey do.
@Rocky: There’s a rule that diving is a yellow card offence. Rarely used. Looking for an opposing player to be booked is a bookable offence. Never used. So no point being in new rules when refs won’t use the ones that are in. And I’m in agreement with you. It does start with the professionals. If a player seems Neymare rolling around at the slightest tip then there going to do it. And Pundits and managers are equally to blame.
@Rocky: nail on the head. Same to some extent with GAA. Then on a rugby pitch you’ve the opposite. No surprise the kids playing each sport (and their parents/coaches) follow suit with what they see on the TV.
@Pseud O’Nym: it happens in rugby too, especially at underage.
@Pseud O’Nym: Yeah. Shame rugby players didn’t behave a bit better when they’re not playing the game.
@Vonvonic: what are talking about, Soccer & GAA are 10 time worse than rugby players, bad eggs in every walk of life can’t just single out one discipline
Any team’s or their supporters who abuse a referee should be blacklisted for future games until they get their house in order.
I’ve never understood why the ref’s in football are so weak and nor hand out yellows followed by reds for any player hurling abuse. It would only take a weekend in the likes of the “Premiership” before teams copped on. And now that all the ref’s have a mic, they should follow the rugby and have it televised, no hiding when everyone at home can hear the foul language.
Who would be a ref. Even when there right there wrong. Take GAA for example. Most players sent off in semi finals have there red card overturned no matter what they dis to receive the red. If a ref sends off a player too early (again for no matter what) there seen yo have ruined the game. And then GAA wonder why they cant recruit refs.
@Cormac Flanagan: and then when a referee makes a decision, the GAA omertha kicks in and they never back then. E.g. James Owens, Conor Lane, hung out to dry by the authorities this year for their decision.
The standard in the Airtricity League is absolutely shocking!
@Ciaran McCann: here is an idea, you become a ref and we will see how you get on
Christ above. Soft world were living in these days.. put them to work in a call centre for 6 months first after that the abuse on a pitch will be a dream
@Diarmuid O Brien: such a pi#ss poor comment.
@Paul Gorry: As opposed to your wonderful input on this story, he’s not wrong either, Retail staff, call centre workers and Bar staff know all about getting abuse and I can tell you it’s a hell ooff lot worse than referees get.
Some of the refereeing mistakes seen, you wouldn’t see in an under 12s game, the problem is that they aren’t experienced enough to ref in big matches and they don’t have the technology to help them (Goaline technology, Video Ref, etc)
@Paul Gorry: lol..sorry your offended by such a light hearted comment..you should join the referees who claim to be abused too..counseling might be needed. Ill try to remember your feelings for future comments
@Adam J: how often do workers in those sectors face returning to their car after finishing to discover tyres slashed, windows smashed, cases where the individual is locked into their workplace (changing room), or even bundled into the boot of a vehicle, as a form of revenge for decisions made, cases of physical assault, or cases where your family is contacted and threats made against your family? For those who think I’m exaggerating, I spent 8 years as a soccer ref in the mid to late 90s in Dublin and either had these happen to myself, or to my colleagues.
As for the technology you mention, don’t see much of that in about 95% of matches played, particularly at schools level or the junior/intermediate leagues.
@Diarmuid O Brien: i mean they are being abused and they aren’t paid enough to take that kind of abuse. You should give it a try. Let’s see how long you would last
@Diarmuid O Brien: A call center? Jesus, have we got to the stage where call center work is considered tough? Bless.
Give them all cattle prods, you’ll see their tenure increase and abuse go in the opposite direction
Not like the old days when they left because they needed glasses…
A by-product of the culture of corruption within the FAI?
@Eddie O’Neill: Yep the FAI are responsible for dimwitted !mbeciles who think it’s acceptable direct vile abuse at another human being. Go back to sleep and stops fishing for likes with buzz words
@Phil Redmond: You’re missing my point. My point was that the governing body has not addressed this long running problem, they can issue bans/fines/sanctions to players, staff, fans for incidences of referee abuse. They have a large part to play in addressing this. If there is no consequences for these actions then you are always going to get the imbeciles, that you referred to, that are too stoopid to work out what is the correct way to deal with their base emotions.
@Eddie O’Neill: Fair enough but maybe next time say that. You’re original comment implies it’s the FAI’s fault it’s happening in the first place which obviously isn’t the case. This is a problem with the culture of football as a whole and it happens in plenty of countries not just here. Yes FAI could be doing more to fight it but so could everyone else. Clubs need to take action as well instead of waiting for the FAI to hold their hand. The refs at underage level as well get awful abuse especially from parents. Clubs need to clamp down on that. Ban little Johnny from playing football if daddy can’t keep his mouth shut and you’ll see a change in behaviour quick enough
Well if they keep putting up the wrong posts, well
At least they have a fall back plan, from what I can gather they’re all expert wank3rs
@Hugh Morris: very mature
@D. Memery: I didn’t come up with the phrase…
Because they’re shyte
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