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In full: Shatter's slams the barrister whose report led to his resignation as justice minister

The former justice minister has delivered a blistering criticism of the report carried out by barrister Seán Guerin.

Hugh O'Connell / YouTube

FORMER JUSTICE MINISTER Alan Shatter has delivered a blistering speech in the Dáil sharply criticising the barrister who carried out a report that led to his resignation last month.

The Fine Gael TD was speaking on the Cooke report into allegations of bugging at the headquarters of the Garda Ombudsman (GSOC) – a report which largely vindicated him – but took the opportunity to compare it to the Guerin report into allegations of gardaí serious mishandling a number of cases.

That damning report last month saw Shatter resign and in the Dáil today the former minister expressed concern that the barrister Seán Guerin did not interview him during the course of his investigation, saying he could have pointed out the inaccuracies in the final report had he done so.

He accused Guerin of having ”ignored the latitude given to him” and said that the senior counsel “rushed to judgment”. He also said that the report was “hastily and prematurely completed” and “a fundamentally flawed and unprecedented rush to judgement”.

Here is the speech in full:

I welcome publication of the Cooke report and the careful and detailed consideration given by retired High Court Judge John Cooke into reports of unlawful surveillance of GSOCs offices.

These matters, of course, first came to public notice in a “revelation” in a Sunday Times article of 9 February 2014.  

I welcome Judge Cooke’s finding that the article contains “misinformation” and that “it is clear that the evidence does not support the proposition that actual surveillance of the kind asserted” in the article “took place and much less that it was carried out by members of the Garda Siochana”.

As Minister for Justice I dealt with these matters in a straightforward, truthful and comprehensive way on the basis of information available to me.  

Both inside and outside this House, the Taoiseach and I were pilloried for referencing GSOCs statutory obligation to report their conducting a public interest investigation to me, as the then Minister for Justice, and I welcome the conclusion of Judge Cooke that such mandatory obligation exists, as I informed the Dáil, under Section 103 of the 2005 Act.

On Morning Ireland, the day after publication of the Cooke report, GSOC Chairperson, Mr Simon O’Brien, explained GSOC’s failure to provide a statutory report until 13 February 2014, four days after publication of the Sunday Times article, on the basis that “events overtook us” and referenced the Sunday Times article. I note that Judge Cooke recounts that, on the 25 November 2013, Mr O’Brien recorded in his personal log that “this investigation is now closed. I need to think about reporting. This will be difficult. We have found nothing.”  

I do not regard the explanation of Mr O’Brien given on RTE as credible and I believe the only reasonable conclusion for no report being furnished to me was that the finding of “nothing” in the public interest investigation was an embarrassment.  

What was said on RTE is sadly an indicator that GSOC have not learned from these events. There will always be tensions between a police force and an independent body established to investigate allegations of police misconduct. However in late September/early Oct, when GSOC first learnt of two of the alleged technical anomalies, new protocols had only just then been put in place to resolve difficulties that had arisen between An Garda Siochana and GSOC.

Their approach to the matter, therefore, should not have been “heavily influenced by the atmosphere of frustration and tension that had arisen between GSOC personnel and the senior ranks of An Garda Siochana” as referenced by Judge Cooke.  

It is also, I believe, disturbing that when appearing before the Joint Oireachtas Petitions Committee, the GSOC Commissioners were so imprecise and unclear in their presentation as to fuel speculation that my first statement to the Dáil was inaccurate in circumstances in which it was entirely based on their verbal and written briefing.

No effective steps were taken by them to correct that perception. The work that GSOC does is of crucial public importance and it is essential that there is public confidence in the leadership provided by GSOC Commissioners; that they comply with and respect their statutory obligations; that when conducting an investigation they assume those subject to the investigation are innocent until proved guilty; and that they truthfully present to the Minister of the day, and to the general public, actions taken by them.  

In this context, I believe the conduct of GSOC’s Commissioners and the narrative and conclusions of Judge Cooke raise genuine concerns as to GSOCs capacity to undertake and comply with its statutory duties under its present leadership.

As Members of the House know, the Cooke inquiry was announced on 19 February last. Some eight days later, on the 27 February, the Guerin inquiry was announced.

Each was requested to report “within 8 weeks” or “as soon as may be thereafter”.

The documentation, public bodies and individuals of relevance to the Guerin inquiry were far more extensive than those of relevance to the Cooke inquiry.

Many more allegations were made by Sergeant McCabe than there were issues to be considered by Judge Cooke.

There was, however, a connectivity between the two Reports.

Reports and documentation of GSOC, the manner in which GSOC undertakes investigations and reaches conclusions, its statutory role and engagement with An Garda Siochana, its relationship with the Minister for Justice, the circumstances in which it deems it appropriate to conduct a public interest investigation under Section 102 of the 2005 Act, and its competence and professionalism were of relevance to both inquiries.

There is an extraordinary and stark contrast between the approach of Judge Cooke and Sean Guerin SC in their dealings with GSOC and in the manner in which they  conducted their inquiries.

Although the issues to be addressed in the Guerin Report were more extensive than those to be addressed in the Cooke Report, Mr Guerin completed his report within a much shorter timeframe (9 and a half weeks) than Judge Cooke (15 weeks).

On 6 May, the Guerin Report was furnished together with a little noticed letter in which Mr Guerin expressed his regret for failing to furnish the report “within the time period mentioned in Paragraph 8” of his Terms of Reference.

An examination of the report illustrates the extent to which he inexplicably focussed on the request that he report within 8 weeks of 27 Feb 2014 and ignored the latitude given to him to report “as soon as may be thereafter”, the latter being language clearly facilitating his taking such time as required to properly complete his work.

I am very puzzled as to why Sean Guerin did not take the additional time necessary to properly complete his work and why he rushed to judgement.

In contrast, Judge Cooke in para 5.9 of his Report notes that he did not conclude his inquiry within a period of 8 weeks and explains “the correspondence exchanged in dealing with conditions, objections and queries raised on behalf of GSOC and of Verrimus ‘as its servant or agent’ impacted on the time required to conduct the inquiry and also that the time scale was “prescribed  before it was known that GSOC would be simultaneously required to cooperate with two enquiries”.

Both reports recount that GSOC instructed Arthur Cox solicitors to assist them with the inquiries and in the preparation of documentation and statements.

Both reports recount that GSOCs lawyers prescribed conditions to be complied with for reading documents regarded as sensitive, confidential or privileged.

Judge Cooke had no difficulty in agreeing appropriate arrangements and in attending at GSOCs offices to access and read all relevant documentation.  I do not understand why Mr Guerin did not do the same.

In addition, to comply with fair procedures, Judge Cooke met with the GSOC Commissioners and their lawyers, raised questions for them to answer and ultimately met with them “to clarify some points that had arisen during the inquiry and to afford  them an opportunity…. to comment upon the conclusions to be expressed in the report”  (para 5.4).

Mr Sean Guerin’s approach to GSOC and others affected by his Report could not have been more different.

Four days after Judge Cooke had attended at GSOC’s offices to examine documentation of relevance to his inquiry (23 April 2014), Mr Guerin received a letter from GSOCs solicitors raising what the Guerin Report refers to as “preliminary legal and practical issues and which stated that GSOC had “voluminous relevant documents” and “was anxious to cooperate”.

Bizarrely, for some reason I do not understand, Sean Guerin, in his Report states “there was no practical reality to ‘voluminous documents’ being reviewed at that late stage” (para 1.8) and criticises GSOC for not making relevant documents available for examination in good time.

He affords no recognition to the fact that GSOC were simultaneously engaged in two separate inquiries and, unlike Judge Cooke, he never met with any member of GSOC.

Moreover, in his letter of 6 May to Martin Fraser, Mr Guerin acknowledges that GSOCs seeking safeguards relating to making  documentation available to him was “not unreasonable”.

However, in that letter, he complains that he was given no indication of GSOC’s concerns “until the process of drafting the final report was well underway” and that he had “no opportunity to review such documentation with the care required”.

This is astonishing.

I would like to know why Mr Guerin thought he had no opportunity to review GSOCs documentation with the care expected, why the drafting of the final report  was “well underway” without his having read and considered this documentation, without meeting others affected by his conclusions and why he completely failed to observe fair procedures in accordance with constitutional and natural justice.

His Terms of Reference allowed him all the time he needed to properly complete his work. What was his hurry?

With regard to GSOC, Mr Guerin partially explains his failure by attempting to minimise the importance of GSOC’s role and recounts that it became involved in a small number of the cases he reviewed (para 3.1).

This assertion is disingenuous.

For example, GSOC was central to determining complaints of Garda misconduct with regard to serious offences committed by Jerry McGrath, one of which involved an alleged catastrophic Garda failure which, if it had not occurred, may have resulted in McGrath being held in custody on the tragic day in December 2007 when he murdered Sylvia Roche Kelly.

It was right that Mr Guerin met with Sergeant McCabe for as long as he deemed necessary. It is a mystery to me, however, as to how he believed he was properly fulfilling his remit and his obligation to observe fair procedures to reach accurate conclusions and make recommendations by meeting for 19 hours with Sargeant McCabe but meeting with no one else whose good name, reputation and credibility could or would be affected by his Report.

Unlike Judge Cooke, he made no arrangements to meet with any persons so affected to raise any questions with them or to give them an opportunity to address any draft conclusions reached by him. There would have been, of course, no difficulty in his doing so. He simply chose not to.

Para 2 of his Terms of Reference enabled Mr Guerin to interview not only Sergeant McCabe but also “any other such person as may be considered necessary and capable of providing relevant and material assistance” in his review and also to “communicate with An Garda Siochana and any other relevant entity or public body in relation to any relevant documentation and  information and to examine what steps, if any, have been taken by them to investigate and resolve allegations and complaints” referred to him.

I believe most people would regard me, as the then Minister for Justice, as a person who could have provided relevant and material assistance and I believe that fair procedures and the principles of natural and constitutional justice required that Mr Guerin should have interviewed me or at the very least, communicated his concerns and questions to me in writing and afforded me the opportunity to address them and also to address his draft conclusions which he had to know would render my continuing in the office of Minister for Justice, Equality and Defence untenable.

I believe, had I been given the opportunity, I could have provided comprehensive information detailing the substantial attention I gave to allegations made by Sergeant McCabe and to use Mr Guerins words “my heeding” and acting on what he had to say.

In doing so, I could have also detailed obstacles and difficulties of relevance that would have shed light on aspects of the background into which he had no insight.

I also believe there was no basis for Mr Guerin’s conclusions that there were grounds for concern that I did not understand my independent statutory role as there was no question, as he suggests, of my simply accepting the views of the Garda Commissioner without question.

Unfortunately, I was given no opportunity by him to address these matters and I believe these conclusions reached by him to be substantially outside the remit of his Terms of Reference.

The result, in my case, of Mr Guerin’s Report, was to render my continuing as Minister untenable and, as a consequence, I resigned my position.

That is done. However, the process involved and the failure to adhere to fair procedures has serious and wider implications.

I believe all of us should be entitled to know that we cannot, by way of any form of inquiry or review or other means, be secretly put on trial, have charges levied against us of which we have no knowledge, be prosecuted without being informed of the evidence, and convicted without being given the opportunity to speak or defend ourselves.

I believe that the unprecedented approach to this review and examination or preliminary inquiry which was undertaken and conducted must never be repeated.

I believe no one in the future requested to undertake such a task should be enabled to take to him or herself the role of investigator, prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner and entirely ignore fair procedures prescribed by our courts and which are specifically prescribed for the undertaking of a statutory inquiry under the provisions of the Commission of Inquiries Act 2004.

I do not believe it was ever envisaged that a preliminary inquiry and scoping exercise to determine whether a statutory inquiry should take place could be so utilised as to totally undermine the fair procedures architecture which is a central core of the Commission of Inquiry Act 2004. Preliminary inquiries or reviews should not facilitate the bypassing of essential human rights protections incorporated in the 2004 Act.

For my own part, I never anticipated that a practicing Senior Counsel, asked to independently consider the serious issues detailed in his terms of reference could or would so ignore basic principles of constitutional and natural justice and fair procedures which have been repetitively pronounced upon and endorsed by our courts at the highest level.

These principles are crucial to the Rule of Law and ignoring them places in peril a value system crucial to the wellbeing of all our citizens and all who reside in the State. To ignore them is to endorse the creation of kangaroo courts as dramatically depicted in Kafkas book “The Trial”.

It is clear from the Guerin Report that its author understood what was required in the context of fair procedures.

For example, in Chapter 5 of his Report, he castigates An Garda Siochana for not affording Sergeant McCabe an opportunity to comment on evidence uncovered in an investigation resulting from a complaint he made and references his entitlement to so comment as being an “important procedural right” and the failure to enable him to do so as resulting in “a fundamental procedural flaw in the investigation.” (para 5.68).

Moreover, he states, in the context of the statutory inquiry that he recommends to further examine Sargeant McCabes’ allegations, that following “an opportunity to hear evidence from the individual members and officers of An Garda Siochana and civilians, including victims of crime, involved in these matters a different view of the facts could emerge.”

The startling omission from his Report is an acknowledgement that “with the benefit of an opportunity to hear evidence” from me, as the then Minister for Justice, or from some others, “a different view of the facts could emerge” as to my dealing with Sargeant McCabes allegations and taking heed of his concerns.

Of course, even if this had been expressly stated by him, it would have been no substitute for applying  to me “the ordinary rules of fair procedures” instead of rushing to judgement with obvious consequences.

I believe that I am entitled to an explanation for the approach adopted in the preparation and finalisation of the Guerin report and to an explanation as to why conclusions were reached and a factual finding made that, as Minister for Justice, I did not “heed” what Sergeant McCabe had to say without my being interviewed or a single question put to me or to Justice officials.

I believe I am entitled to know, as are Members of this House, why the Guerin Report was so hastily and prematurely completed in comparison to the approach and time taken to complete the Cooke Report.

My accusation is that of a fundamentally flawed preliminary inquiry and report and an unprecedented rush to judgement. As a prosecuting Counsel, Mr Guerin must know that the manner in which he conducted his role and some of the conclusions reached by him would not withstand court scrutiny.

Unfortunately, I do not have the time available, in this debate, to detail all the omissions and inaccuracies in the Guerin Report which I could have addressed had he interviewed me.

There is, however, a  particular issue to which I wish to refer. Chapter 19 of the Report deals with the role of the Department of  Justice and Equality.

In para 19.89 the Report purports to summarise “advice” received from an official in the Attorney Generals office, (of whom I make no criticism), on 18 December 2013. It states that “the substance of the advice related to the three booklets of allegations that were received by the Minister under cover of a letter of 4 September 2012 from Sergeant McCabe’s solicitors.

The advice was to forward the two booklets relating to complaints of malpractice and corruption to the Minister ‘without further ado’.

It was said that if there was any issue with such a course of action it was for Sergeant McCabe’s solicitors to say so earlier in the correspondence.

The advice in relation to the third booklet was that it be returned to Sergeant McCabe’s solicitors in light of the existing proceedings in relation to alleged harassment”. Para 19.90 states “it is unclear whether or not the documents were ultimately forwarded to the Commissioner”.

Any reading of this extract from the Guerin Report could only conclude that officials were advised to furnish two files of documentation to me in December 2013 and that, having received these files, I did nothing.

In fact, Mr Guerin has misquoted the letter which actually advised that the two files concerned be furnished by Justice officials to the Garda Commissioner and that no copies of the documents be retained in the Department of Justice.

It makes no reference whatsoever to them being furnished to me.

The first I learnt of this letter was upon my reading of the Guerin Report and I sought a copy of it following my resignation.

As it was at my request that Justice officials sought advices from the Attorney’s office, I do not know why this letter was not furnished to me upon its receipt in the Department nor was I at any time verbally briefed on its existence or its content, contrary to the impression that may have been given by the Secretary General of the Department in his recent presentation to the Joint Oireachtas Justice Committee.

Crucially and inexplicably, Mr Guerin omitted a substantial portion of the letter from his Report. The missing portion leaves no room for doubt that, on the 18 December 2013, it was the view of the Attorney’s office that the existing statutory mechanisms for addressing Sergeant McCabes allegations should be relied upon and no mention is made of the need for a statutory inquiry.

Crucially, the advices contained in this letter, written approximately two months before Mr Guerin’s appointment, are the exact opposite of the course of action recommended in the final chapter of the Guerin Report, a course of action I am criticised in the Report for not taking.

I doubt that, at the time when the Guerin report was furnished to the Taoiseach and when he sought the advice of the Attorney General on it, that she was aware of the full content of this letter.

I believe it is probable that all the Attorney and the Taoiseach knew of it was derived from para 19.89 which is open to the mistaken conclusion that I failed in some respects in my statutory obligations.

If the Report had accurately and comprehensively detailed the full content of that letter and also my background involvement in seeking advice from the Attorney’s office the letter could not have formed the basis for any such conclusion.

In my letter of resignation I expressed support for the holding of a statutory inquiry, as it is clear from the Guerin Report that there existed correspondence, documentation and information that should have been but which was not furnished to me and there are clearly issues of  importance that  should be comprehensively and transparently addressed in the public interest.

I believe it is important that, prior to Terms of Reference being finalised and cast in stone, there be a further opportunity for them to be considered in this House.

I am conscious that I do not have the time today nor is it appropriate that I address this today in detail.

I merely wish to briefly reference four matters.

If the statutory inquiry is to be comprehensive it should include all cases dealt with in Bailieboro Garda Station which have given rise to complaint.

There is a matter which has been the subject of articles in the Irish Independent which included a report of Michael Martin meeting an individual who alleges she was the victim of a sexual assault and who alleges that her complaint was not recorded on Pulse nor did it result in a prosecution.

I understand from the newspaper report that Deputy Martin was to provide information on this matter to An Taoiseach and I presume he has done so.  This case should clearly form part of any statutory inquiry.

It is clear that, in mistakenly finding that I paid insufficient heed to Sargeant McCabes allegations, the Guerin Report substantially ignored the relevance of action taken with regard to the Fixed Charge Notice issue, which included seeking and obtaining a report from the independent Garda Inspectorate, fully accepting recommendations made by it and when new allegations emerged asking GSOC to conduct an investigation.

The Terms of Reference should ensure this omission is not repeated as there is a clear connection between this matter and any consideration of the extent to which I took Sergeant McCabes allegations seriously.

Sargeant McCabe’s conversations and dealings with the Confidential Recipient are  also of relevance if the full background is to be understood, as well as any steps taken by the Confidential Recipient and it is my view the Terms of Reference should be so extended.

All of these matters have been in the public domain and I believe it is in the public interest that they be fully examined.

Finally any recording or transcript made of  Mr Guerins 19 hours of conversation with Sergeant McCabe should be provided to the Statutory Inquiry to assist it in its work. I presume such material exists and this should be clarified.

In conclusion, I stand by the Rule of Law, the personal rights protected by our Constitution and the European Convention on Fundamental Rights, the core principles of constitutional and natural justice, the core values of this State and the European Union whose objectives include ensuring that justice is not arbitrary and that no body or individual can trample on such rights including the right of all to receive a fair hearing where allegations are made against them.

The issues I have raised today are of far greater general importance than any impact on me personally resulting from recent events.

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38 Comments
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    Mute Tony Skillington
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    Sep 1st 2016, 8:50 PM

    Ahh yes..that’s the Donald we’ve come to know. So..2,000,000 in the first hour?..how? Flying them out?

    210
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    Mute thejynxeffect
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:32 PM

    He said begin moving them out on day one. 2 million illegal immigrants with criminal records should be deported. They would never have initially passed a background check at immigration when trying to get in. Considering the large amount of illegals that are incarcerated in the U.S at the taxpayers expense, it sounds like removing people that shouldn’t be there in the first place is a good idea.

    186
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    Mute Chlorines72
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:36 PM

    How could any American seeing Trump’s commanding presence and leadership in Mexico yesterday..and then hear that speech on how to accomplish securing the country. How could they still vote for a morally bankrupt, exhausted globalist Clinton?

    83
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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:46 PM

    Howdy headcases — Europe won’t be doing the same and Trump won’t be doing anything because he won’t be president.

    lolz

    108
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    Mute Chlorines72
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:57 PM

    You sound angry and desperate Peter. Like someone who is losing bigly lolz

    49
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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:59 PM

    Well, I make two claims there and both are true. So I think it’s your who is desperate.

    49
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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:00 PM

    By the way, thousands more migrants are arriving in Europe each day, and there is nothing you can do about it.

    You must feel so helpless.

    33
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    Mute Chlorines72
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:01 PM

    You are wrong and will be proven wrong on November 9th. Trump is going to be the next POTUS.

    43
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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:12 PM

    PMSL

    30
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    Mute andrew
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:25 PM

    Clinton today. Every bit as bad as Trump. Probably worse:

    The United States is an exceptional nation. I believe we are still Lincoln’s last, best hope of Earth. We’re still Reagan’s shining city on a hill. We’re still Robert Kennedy’s great, unselfish, compassionate country.

    And it’s not just that we have the greatest military or that our economy is larger than any on Earth. It’s also the strength of our values, the strength of the American people. Everyone who works harder, dreams bigger and never, ever stops trying to make our country and the world a better place. And part of what makes America an exceptional nation, is that we are also an indispensable nation.

    We recognize America’s unique and unparalleled ability to be a force for peace and progress, a champion for freedom and opportunity. Our power comes with a responsibility to lead, humbly, thoughtfully, and with a fierce commitment to our values.

    LOLZ . And that’s not just at the opening line which refers to two Republican presidents LOLZ

    31
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    Mute Dain Bramage
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:31 PM

    Pissing yourself laughing, rolling around laughing, lolling, lolzing. Incontinence, bi polar and now some sort of tourettes. You’re a pharmacist’s wet dream Petr.

    47
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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:39 PM

    Dain / Liam,

    Calm down pet.

    20
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    Mute Pádraig Ó Raghaill
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:46 PM

    Good video here on all Hillary’s flip flops and much more
    https://youtu.be/a-xjiXfJ58Q

    The best outcome could be for Wikileaks to nail Hillary before the election and thus resurrecting Bernie who would then beat Trump.

    Hey, it’s America – anything is possible

    41
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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:49 PM

    True that Pádraig. Shillary is a vicious thug. Bernie would beat Trump. Bernie or bust.

    26
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    Mute stevenocarroll
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:51 PM

    Open-Border Extremist Petr exposing how he revels in the suffering of European children as he sneeringly says:

    “By the way, thousands more migrants are arriving in Europe each day, and there is nothing you can do about it.

    You must feel so helpless.”

    Can you imagine if some white person said the same about whites flooding into some African country like Nigeria, committing rapes and murders, causing them to become a minority in their own country….and we laughed about it. What would the Open-Border Extremists say about that? Petr is an Open-Border Extremist and like all open-Border Extremists, they want to see Europeans destroyed.

    Petr mocks and laughs at this:
    list documents more than 160 instances of rape and sexual assault committed by migrants in train stations, swimming pools and other public places against victims as young as seven.
    http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/cologne-is-every-day-europes-rape-epidemic/news-story/e2e618e17ad4400b5ed65045e65e141d

    38
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    Mute thejynxeffect
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:59 PM

    Petr I’ll speak your language with you don’t mind Dain. Lolz, PMSL, roflmao!! What’s you counter argument?

    15
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    Mute Laughs @ Antis 24/7
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 6:31 AM

    Donnie Trumpie is making me have similiar feelings as Petr ..LOL

    Donnie wants to do the EXACT same thing the Obama administration is doing now ..LOL

    Obama’s administration deported nearly 170,000 last year alone LOL

    And all of the Donnies on here are congratulating him ..LOL

    “Over the course of FY 2015, ICE has improved its ability to target individuals who threaten public safety and national security as demonstrated by the fact that 98 percent of individuals that ICE removed met ICE’s civil immigration enforcement priorities. As these revised enforcement priorities continue to take hold, and state and local cooperation increases, ICE expects continued progress in ensuring its resources are appropriately focused in keeping our nation safe and secure.”

    https://www.ice.gov/removal-statistics

    Donnie is very nearly making me PMSL too …LOL

    6
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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 12:41 PM

    Lolling at all you fools who believe Trump who would sell his granny and yours to be the next POTUS. He doesn’t give a flying f about anybody but himself so you are all his wet dream!

    5
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    Mute Leighanna Rose
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 5:08 PM

    “Shouldn’t be there in the first place”

    Can we start with all the white people then?

    1
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    Mute Jurgen Remak
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    Sep 1st 2016, 8:58 PM

    What a jerk. Completely alienating the Mexican administration. Hey Donald, explain how you are going to make Mexico pay for the wall? More BS talk from Trump.

    110
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    Mute Joe Mc
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:04 PM

    Read it again Jurgen. He said criminal immigrants. He’s dead right. We should be doing the same

    122
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    Mute Jurgen Remak
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:18 PM

    It’s not just the immigrants with criminal records, it’s the targeting of Obama policies that help other undocumented immigrants. This article does not cover fully Trump’s claims.

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    Mute Patrick Watson
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:19 PM

    The journal deliberately took the quote out of context, as per usual. Journalistic standards and ethics are in the toilet over at Journal Towers.

    86
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    Mute Chris Cantwell
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:28 PM

    The reason the journal does that is for views, which in turn generates revenue

    49
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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:32 PM

    So Patrick, you agree with Jurgen, the full quote is worse

    16
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    Mute Patrick Watson
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:34 PM

    Full correct quote for those of us who care about fairness and accuracy in reporting: “According to federal data, there are at least 2 million criminal aliens now inside the country. We will begin moving them out day one, in joint operations with local, state and federal law enforcement. Beyond the 2 million, there are a vast number of additional criminal illegal immigrants who have fled or evaded justice. But their days on the run will soon be over. They go out, and they go out fast”

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    Mute thejynxeffect
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:35 PM

    Yep, completely out of context. The Journal banks on people not listening to the full speech

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    Mute dublinlad
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:45 PM

    Joe mc, he wants to remove all illegal immigrants. Go listen to his speech.

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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:48 PM

    Declan is actually right here for once. Trump is a disgusting bigot.

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    Mute Joe Mc
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:18 PM

    Dublin. Listen again. He said criminal illegal immigrants,

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    Mute stevenocarroll
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:41 PM

    @Petr

    “Trump is a disgusting bigot.”

    How?

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    Mute Laughs @ Antis 24/7
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 6:40 AM

    Donnie Trumpie wants to do what the Obama administration is already doing … LOL

    This is brilliant stuff …LOL

    Round them all up ..LOL …”We know who you are and we’re coming for you NOW “..LOL

    “Hey you Mr/Mrs immigrant over there..you look like a criminal and everyone of you are coming with me ..” Lol

    But if anyone can work it out,it will be our special Donnie that will work it all out..LOL

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    Mute Patrick J O'CONNOR
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:19 PM

    Anone who thinks that illegals who break the law ought not be kicked out is sick and Americans are sick of that mushy mushy strata of society who want to mother-goose the bad boys. These mother-goosers are suckers and will bring down a nation faster than any external attack. Just look at France and Germany and Sweden and even the UK.
    Dump them out Donald!They will quickly be replaced by those who lined up according to the rules showing that they wont become disrespectful citizens and neighbours..

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    Mute B Gaffn
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:46 PM

    Wells said, The key word that everyone seem to gloss over is ILLEGAL. Last time I checked every other country in the world doesn’t allow illegal immigration. But because the US wants to clamp down on it everybody frowns upon it.

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    Mute Danielle O'Riordan
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 7:24 AM

    Trump is the biggest hypocrite. Models from his Modelling agency have all stated that they came to the US on tourist visas and worked ILLEGALLY. He doesn’t mind illegal immigrants that line his own pockets.

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    Mute Patrick Watson
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    Sep 1st 2016, 8:49 PM

    Consistent Don does it again! Where are the naysayers who predicted a massive U-turn on his tough but fair approach to illegal immigration? Two YUGE campaign events yesterday, demonstrating his energy, stamina and determination to do what has to be done for the American people meanwhile Hillary Clinton will go into hiding for another 3 or 4 days after her latest brief public appearance.

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    Mute Patrick Watson
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:14 PM

    The tide is turning in this race, Trump has seized the momentum, the Hildabots can sense this…and they don’t like it one bit.

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    Mute John Supple
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:29 PM

    Well said!

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:34 PM

    Dirty Donny lying about his discussion with an actual president was hilarious. The AmeriCAN’T met the MexiCAN

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    Mute thejynxeffect
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:32 PM

    Dave give it a rest. Like him or not, Trump now sets the narrative that the media and you have been following with great interest.

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    Mute Boganity
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:37 PM

    This guy is such a clown I think he’s going to win

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 12:24 AM

    Jynx, last week you were saying the media were trying to ruin him now you’re saying he is setting the agenda, which is it?

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    Mute thejynxeffect
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 1:14 AM

    The media are trying to ruin him. Trump is setting the agenda. They’re two different things Dave.

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    Mute Dan Lawlor
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 6:33 AM

    Tide or no tide he’s down nearly double digits in Colorado and Virginia. His path to 270 is nearly impossible. Maybe he turns some rustbelt states competitive with talk of mass deportations but he alienates moderates in a whole other set of states

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:04 PM

    Donald another fascist the world doesn’t need.

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    Mute stevenocarroll
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:12 PM

    Are Nigerians fascist if they want to keep Nigeria for the people of their country and not allowing mass-immigration?

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 12:51 PM

    White men are taking the world back for white men! Yay!

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    Mute archer 12
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:13 PM

    Like him more each day. Go Trump.

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    Mute Ace
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:08 PM

    Maybe he could make the Mexicans wear some sort of a symbol so that people would know what they are.

    Some sort of a gold star maybe.

    I really dont think it is too far a stretch to start comparing Trump to Hitler.

    This is history repeating itself.

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    Mute Chlorines72
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:17 PM

    Real air of desperation in that feeble little post of yours.

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    Mute Joe Mc
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:38 PM

    Hitler. Are you for real. While the Clintons are responsible for 2 and a half million deaths since its ridiculous foreign policy was introduced. . You should think again

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    Mute stevenocarroll
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:13 PM

    So people are not allowed have their country for their people

    when did this start up?

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 12:58 PM

    Yeah give America back to the Indians and deport all the Europeans. Everyone is entitled to their own country. Oh you just meant white people?

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    Mute James Joseph Superior Power
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 2:08 AM

    Reading some of the comments on here it would seem that we have a lot people who are as stupid as those along the Bible belt of America.

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    Mute Jason Matthews
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:07 PM

    This fella is cracked

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    Mute Gavin Scott
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    Sep 1st 2016, 8:53 PM

    Reminds me of Team America when your man said, ‘I will never die’… This time it’s real and it’s ‘you’ll build the wall’- and some actually think this is going well! FOL

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    Mute Micheal OLainn
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:05 PM

    Always indulge and play up to prejudices and bigotry is Trump’s approach to politics.

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    Mute Petr Tarasov
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:49 PM

    Yes and the knuckle draggers love it. It will never win him an election though.

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    Mute stevenocarroll
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:54 PM

    Is enforcing border security prejudiced and bigotry?

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    Mute Laughs @ Antis 24/7
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 6:43 AM

    There is a LOT less people crossing the border ..LOL

    Have ye ever actually looked at the statistics ..LOL

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    Mute Brendan Coady
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:23 PM

    Mrs trump better start packing so…

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    Mute stevenocarroll
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:56 PM

    because she is Mex…

    because she is an illeg..

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    Mute Brendan
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:13 PM

    Hopefully the rest of the world will treat Trump as an undesirable foreigner and confine him within the borders of the USA.

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:15 PM

    Fear not…..with the US automotive industry moving south of the border for cheap labour…….it won’t be long before US citizens are climbing the new Trump wall for a better life in Mexico. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/06/15/auto-jobs-mexico/71224972/
    All thanks to NAFTA……lol

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    Mute John003
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:39 PM

    I think that’s the idea Al with Trump in charge Ford would have to stay in Detroit

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:08 PM

    Detroit is now a wasteland and bankrupt. NAFTA has made Canada the most sued nation on earth….US lawyers are cleaning up on behalf of US corps. The dollar is God….Trump will not interfere with his God.

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    Mute Mick Walsh
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:36 PM

    He is right, if we all done that, we wouldn’t have innocent people been killed.

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    Mute thejynxeffect
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:59 PM

    Well said Mick

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    Mute Jamie Caffrey
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:30 PM

    Seriously. . The journal biased coverage off the American election is getting silly now …

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    Mute Dubabroad
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:32 PM

    He’s like the little mouthy kid we all knew in school. . Wouldn’t say booo to a mouse but when he’s out of swinging range from anyone it’s all “I’ll do this, I’ll do that.. ” How in the name of fluch have the ‘Murricanians not copped on to him yet

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    Mute Joey_Westland
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:34 PM

    ‘Illegal immigrants with criminal records’
    Gonna be a lot of empty real estate in Florida next year once the Cubans have gone.
    Guys, why don’t we club together, organize a consortium and make a killing on the market.
    Cmon, payback time for Yankee imperialism.

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    Mute Andy K
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:21 PM

    But what he doesnt realise is that without the mexicans doing all the cheap labour the US economy would have sunk by now. (This is also a little discussed reason for germany and other european countries to let in the immigrants as europe is in dire need of some cheap labour)

    Yes, you do have a problem with letting in a few people who cause trouble, but if youre looking to start blaming people for things most of the ‘illegal’ guns used for killing people in mexico are from the US. And the funds for running cartels comes from the average american buying drugs. The world is more interconnected than you think. If you can blame one people for all your problems then you definitely dont see the big picture.

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    Mute Jimmy Murphy
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 12:46 AM

    No matter which side of the fence you’re on, this is all empty inflammatory vote seeking bullshit. Even if he does become president, he’ll u-turn on all this to maintain the approval ratings. That’s what politicians do, tell people what they want to hear & then never live up to it. It’s all about winning the election, not fulfilling promises.

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    Mute Val Martin
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 2:49 AM

    Jimmy, can you explain why you believe Trump is a politician? or did you just write that to make yourself look intelligent?

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 12:46 PM

    Agree Jimmy I think he would shit himself if he won. He knows nothing about deportation, he would have divided America along the most racial lines and I can’t believe too many businesses would have faith in him. He would not make America great again.

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    Mute Jimmy Murphy
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 1:37 PM

    I do believe the trying to become POTUS has certain political acetones to it Val. Ironic you displayed stupidity to question intelligence.

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    Mute Mick Walsh
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:37 PM

    He is right, if we all done that innocent life would not be taken so easy

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    Mute thejynxeffect
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:59 PM

    Terrible comment Mick

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    Mute Alan M
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:32 PM

    Tired of hearing this clown’s guff. Clinton will be no better but she will win. Trump is simply a fool.

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    Mute angryjoepublic
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    Sep 1st 2016, 8:55 PM

    Crazy world . 5/2 second fav

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    Mute Boris Defender
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    Sep 1st 2016, 9:14 PM

    Nobody remembers the runner up!

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    Mute Val Martin
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 2:47 AM

    I have a substantial bet on him to win @ 3/1. In reality illegal aliens with criminal records and caught committing crime will be prioritised. He is a fantastic candidate, watch his rallies. Great diction and command of English. He has the establishment scared and Hillary hiding under the bed

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    Mute Laughs @ Antis 24/7
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 6:44 AM

    LOL

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    Mute Jamie Caffrey
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    Sep 1st 2016, 11:41 PM

    SEND A TIP TO THE AUTHOR PAUL …PAUL HERE A TIP DO MORE RESEARCH BE A REPORTER AND DON’T BE SO BIASES NEARLY TIME TO BOYCOTT THE JOURNAL FOR UNFAIR REPORTING

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    Mute will
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    Sep 1st 2016, 8:56 PM

    whack the donata

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    Mute Fintan Oflaois
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 9:11 AM

    The Washington Post has a very thought-provoking editorial about the un-American demagogue,liar and hatemonger Trump. Rather than posting a link, I’ll cut and paste it in full: Trump doubles down on his illogical, un-American immigration plans

    By Editorial Board September 1 at 7:23 PM
    IT’S USEFUL that Donald Trump has clarified his plans for Larissa Martinez, who started classes this week as a freshman at Yale University, having graduated in the spring as class valedictorian at her Texas high school. After weeks of waffling, and suggestions that his views on immigration might be “softening,” Mr. Trump has set the record straight: Ms. Martinez has no future in America.

    The recipient of a full scholarship to Yale, Ms. Martinez is hoping for a career as a neurosurgeon. As it happens, she’s also a top-notch student, a compelling public speaker and, according to Mr. Trump’s policy, a high priority for deportation.

    Discarding his dalliance with fairness and compassion, the Republican presidential nominee this week tossed red meat to the xenophobes in his base by reaffirming his intention to launch a crusade of mass deportations that would target, according to an analysis by The Post, at least 6 million people. Among them, he said, would be immigrants who have overstayed their visas. That category would sweep up Ms. Martinez, who, at age 13, accompanied her mother and sister to the United States on a tourist visa; they stayed after the visa expired, having fled an abusive home in Mexico.

    Of course, there is no place in Mr. Trump’s cramped mental universe for someone like Ms. Martinez. To Mr. Trump and the crowds who egg him on, undocumented immigrants are criminals, murderers, rapists, carriers of disease and drug smugglers, fit to be rounded up by deportation agents and shipped far, far away.

    Just why Mr. Trump would prioritize visa-overstayers for deportation, and not those who entered the country illegally in the first place, is unexplained. Logic is hardly the point of his policy. He asserts that illegal immigrants have stolen jobs from Americans and triggered a crime wave. In fact, they have met a labor market demand for low-wage workers and been a catalyst for economic growth.

    While there are undoubtedly instances of terrible crimes committed by unauthorized immigrants — as there are by authorized immigrants, and green card holders, and, it goes without saying, citizens — they are hardly the rule. In fact, young immigrant males are incarcerated at roughly half the rate of native-born Americans. Illegal immigrants, like legal ones, are generally law-abiding and extremely hard-working.

    To the GOP nominee, illegal immigrants are a useful instrument with which to whip his supporters into a froth of nativist agitation. He would hire thousands more immigration and Border Patrol agents; he would create a “special deportation task force”; he would round up the criminals whose countries refuse to accept them. He would do it all on Day One, in the first hour, the first minute, in the first fleeting seconds of his administration — by fiat, presumably, because he makes no reference to Congress or legality or judicial precedent. It will all be so fast, so beautiful, so efficient. Believe him.

    The self-contained imposter who called briefly on Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto on Wednesday was masquerading as Donald Trump. In fact, the real Mr. Trump is the man who has been on television all these months, playing on hatred and fear, threatening people such as Ms. Martinez, who represent American values more truly than Mr. Trump ever could.

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    Mute Pete Slattery
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 9:55 AM

    Trump’s ludicrous ‘deport em all’ plan has a measly 17% approval rating, with the vast majority supporting natualisation rather than deportation. His rhetoric is just to gain cheers from his core supporters, who are a bunch of ill-informed, right-wing racists. They’re either too dumb or willfully ignorant of the fact that immigration into the states from Mexico is actually down. Last year, there were more Mexicans leaving the States than entering. But just so long as they have their racism legitimised, they’ll keep cheering, and Trump will keep lapping it up. He has no plan. He is just a gas bag moron.

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    Mute Dave McCrea
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 12:03 AM

    Trump doesn’t live in the real world. I’m not against evicting illegal immigrants who have criminal records, but this idiot apparently hasn’t contemplated the issue of all their relatives including children, baby mamas, wives, grandparents of the ones with criminal records.
    Also he is playing with fire… The Mexican gangs can get to just about anyone. I believe they’ve had Texas judges assassinated.

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 3:27 AM

    Dave, you know Trump is just a blow hard, they don’t have the money to carry all that out…

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    Mute Val Martin
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 10:39 AM

    Dave. No gang can get to just about anyone, if the state is strong and the people support the state and the police are given the resources to take them on, they will be crushed. If Trump wins he will crush them.

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    Mute James Keogh
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 2:05 AM

    Trump parades about like he is “Cock of the Walk”, when the nearest he will get to actually being that, is walking about under the “Cock of Hay” on his head.
    Cock-A-Doodle,

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    Mute Pete Slattery
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 8:51 AM

    He’s a complete idiot. And so are the people who support him and his warped ideology.

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    Mute Muiris de Bhulbh
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 8:20 AM

    Aren’t all Americans of European or African ‘stock’ illegal immigrants, or descendants of such immigrants?

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    Mute Dean Burroughs
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 8:55 AM

    The SJW’s are in for a big shock

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    Mute Emer Caffrey
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    Sep 1st 2016, 10:39 PM

    I feel a fatwa coming on

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 3:28 AM

    Give it 2 flushes then…

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    Mute Val Martin
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 10:37 AM

    The polls are tightening in Trump’s favour, 18 % ahead in West Virginia.

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    Mute Val Martin
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 1:44 PM

    Invasion of Iraq based on lies, killing Gaddafi because he was setting up an alternative currency to the dollar. Death mayhem and the rise of ISIS. Handing 20% of America’s Uranium to Russia in return for them paying 700,000 dollars to Bill Clinton as a speaking fee.

    Still she leads in the polls. We could be in serious trouble and the EU will come to take your sons to war.

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    Mute Abe Brennan
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    Sep 3rd 2016, 5:11 AM

    Bill only got a bl@w job, but Hilary will fcuk the whole country.

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    Mute Val Martin
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    Sep 3rd 2016, 10:20 AM

    You want to read the FBI report into the latest Hillary e mails, Unbelievable

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    Mute tally ho
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 7:18 AM

    Somewhere between Trump Style and Kenny style lies a brilliant leader

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 3:19 AM

    Hillary and Trump prove that they act like bullies and say things they know will get support by telling nutcases what they want to hear and that will get their vote because they are agreeing with the nutcases by telling them that they are right in what they believe. Trump with immigrants and Hillary on UFO’s and so on…
    The second best thing bullies do is to make others believe their sack of sh…

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    Mute Alois Irlmaier
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 3:22 AM

    The winner will be the biggest a…hole with the greatest a…holes supporting them. That is how this election will be won as the normal folk are sick and tired of them and also really hate both of them…

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    Mute Neville Bartos
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    Sep 4th 2016, 3:57 AM

    Good stuff

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    Mute itsonlyme
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    Sep 2nd 2016, 10:11 PM

    One how many Irish are living illegally in America and have criminal records? The story doesn’t mention Mexicans specifically.

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