@Mick Jordan: This is easy to fix. Put the border out into The Irish Sea and reunify Northern Ireland with the Republic. Why did nobody else think of this ;)

@Paul P O’Sullivan: That’s up to the UK government to sell to the Unionists. Not our problem.

@Mick Jordan: it’s our exports. They have us over a fence.

@Louis Jacob: Hard border soft border with NI will mean very little to our exports. The UK are leaving the Customs Union to the effect remains the same.

@Mick Jordan: the UK are very interested in the border all of a sudden. They haven’t much to go on is my point. We are are the whipping boys in this. Make no mistake about it.

@Louis Jacob: whipping boys in what way? We are going to lose very little. The reason the UK want us to help out is they are realising the enormous task it is going to be for them to seal the border to stop immigration via the back door. Any goods to or from NI will still attract excise duty no different than goods from the Republic would to England.

@Mick Jordan: I think people are underestimating how nasty this is going to get. You are assuming that things will go forward in a reasonable and objective manner. They won’t. You also assume that the Tories give a toss about immigration. They don’t. Not do they care about us or the north. It will be a mess. And we will be the big losers. You’ll see.

@Louis Jacob:

The harder the Brexit, the better it will be in the long run for the ROI. We will be the hub between EU and US and investment will surge into the ROI.

I want the talks to break down and the UK out on WTO trading rules.

@Mick Jordan:
The onus isn’t on the UK at all – they don’t want a border. If the EU is determined to have a border the onus is fairly and squarely on them to provide it.

@Fred Jensen: hub for investment – where are the people going to live? there was an article on here recently saying the housing crisis is putting businesses off investing in the ROI

@Mick Jordan: I think you forget that the border counties of Monaghan, Cavan and especially Donegal will be negatively impacted by a hard border. you should consider life outside the M50

@Avina Laaf: It is they that want to leave the Customs Union but have the benefits of being in it. It is they that wish to halt immigration from the EU and want us to help them achieve it. So if they want the above then they want to stop immigration via the back door then they need a border to achieve it.

@Avina Laaf: take back control of our borders was the leave mantra!

@Mick Jordan:
@Irish Cottage Rental
Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that you need a hard border to put limits on immigration. Sure you might end up with some illegals working in the black economy, but there won’t be the same level of migrants coming to avail of the right to benefits or work that they would get if the UK was still in the EU, and you won’t have European courts blocking the deportation of undesirables.

@Avina Laaf: Don’t listen to this troll guys. As you can see by his handle, we’re not meant to take him seriously.

@Danny Rafferty:
How about you just address the point?

From Britain’s point of view it’s all about retaking sovereign control over how many immigrants they’re going to legally allow to enter and work in the country, and you don’t need a hard border to do that.
In the case of illegal immigrants the situation with a soft border will be no different than it’s been for the last couple of decades, but this was always a secondary issue anyway.

@Louis Jacob: But what if we don’t want to be the Tory’s ace card, because they are not interested in h ielping us and never have if history is to be believed. The British just want their cake and eat it, so Ireland’s best position is firmly with the EU.

@Mick Jordan: Very true, the Irish sea is the most practical border and it is up to the British to realise that fact.

@Avina Laaf: If Illegal immigration would be no different after Brexit then why did the UK need Immigration Officers based in France and Belgium? And that was just dealing with Non EU nationals. After Brexit, EU nationals can arrive quite legally here and simply hire a car an drive across the “Soft Border” and they are in the UK. So unless the UK authorities demand to see passports at the Air or Ferry ports in NI (which is basically admitting that Irish Sea is the actual border) they are going to have to admit defeat on immigration control.

@Mick Jordan:
The point is they can enter the country but they can’t work or claim benefits.

And you also missed the point about non-EU nationals. The same situation still applies there as it has for the last couple of decades.

@Avina Laaf: Sorry, but the UK is saying one thing and meaning another
UK says we want to be outside of single market and customs union. UK also says they dont want a hard land border between Ireland and UK
Well………how do you have a border between customs union with no border at all. They are mutually incompatible

The EU is not responsible for Brexit, the EU is not responsible for the unicorns and fairies that the UK wants. The main reason that the EU is not giving solutions for UK demands is because that no workable solution exists…

@Kevin McDonnell:
Exactly, which is precisely why the onus is on the EU, not the UK, to put border controls in place if they want them. The UK has nothing whatsoever to gain from protecting the EU customs union, so why would it be up to them to put a solution in place??

It’s like Donald Trump expecting Mexico to build a border wall!

@Avina Laaf: What??? How is the onus on the EU.
If a political party wants to slash taxes and go on a spending binge at the same time the onus is on them to tell us how before they can be believed.

Same here, if Britain is making 2 mutually incompatible demands its up t them to say how it can be done.

@Avina Laaf:
(update)
Now I get what you mean (a bit) and we are arguing two slightly points
To me it looks like Bariner is NOT saying that the onus is on the UK to implement the customs border single single-handedly. He is saying that the onus is on the UK to come up with a plan on how the border can be manged in 2019 and beyond.
As I said, they are making 2 mutually incompatible demands. They have reiterated again and again they dont want a hard border with Ireland but cannot even give a rough sketch of how it would be done pot brexit (assuming they are out of customs union)

@Mick Jordan: You are right Mick. I have lived in the UK since the 70s The Brits certainly want to limit immigration, especially from the Middle East !

@Mick Jordan: Wrong, the UK is accepting the will of its electorate, that is democracy. The UK owes the EU nothing, the UK is bending over backwards to facilitate Ireland. If Poland left the EU would the EU pay it a dowry as it is a net beneficiary of EU funds? No it wouldn’t & for the same reason the UK owes the EU nothing. The UK can have any customs arrangement for goods entering Northern Ireland as it likes. Ireland on the other hand will have to set up a physical customs frontier as demanded by the EU for traffic heading south that is a matter for the EU nothing to do with the UK. Tell me how will German supermarkets get their goods across the UK & in to Irish supermarkets before their expiry date without goodwill from the UK? How will polish supermarkets get their goods into their shops in the UK or Ireland if they are going to be held up in continental ports awaiting clearance? The UK is an importer of food & can import it from anywhere it has agreements with from anywhere in the world. Goods pre cleared from Australia, Canada, Brazil, New Zealand the UK or China etc will flow in to the supermarkets while EU goods have to go through customs being held up while duties are paid & collected. An exported Car from the UK isn’t going to go off while it sits in a compounds awaiting clearance & the exchange rate fluctuations more than make up for the small amount of duty due on WTO trade.

Anyone else embarrassed abroad about Brexit especially when people (even in European countries) who don’t realise that Ireland is completely independent and that most Irish people want an United Ireland eventually and peacefully.
Also have to sympathise with UK citizens who voted to Remain and who are ignored by their government and the embarrassment they suffer in European countries because of this sorry situation which they hope their is another vote on final deal which hopefully the half (more if you include those who didn’t vote) protest and demand to be listened to before 2019

@Stan:
So what you’re saying is to keep having votes until you get the result you want. Now where have we heard that before?…..

@Avina Laaf: 48% of the UK population were against Brexit even before most people knew just how much difficulty for the UK it would land on their doorstep. Ask that same question of the UK voters now given what they know now and the result I think would be very very different

@Niall Sweeney: well if there is a united Ireland the republic is going to be in for a shock…
The 6 county’s has so much baggage.
It’s unemployment is a fair bit higher, also double the South is the old to young ratio that means elderly care bill is massive, and the tax return from the young is decreased hugely.
Then with the free health gone, the hse would be sunk within weeks…
With the social welfare bill far higher per head than the south, the republic will be broke and back into the resession for years….
And before Europe would except reunification the Norton government has to pay back the westmister…
Hence why an independent Scotland could never join Europe… 375billion and climbing….

@Barry morcom: what are you talking about. Everything that you said is wrong

@ktsiwot: I believe that it is both arrogance ans stupid, arrogance being people like Theresa May and Nigel Farage while stupid is David Davis in the way he is conducting the negotiation with the EU.

@Paddy: we want an end to freedom of movement and also an end to the common travel area meaning that Irish hauliers cant travel with there cargo through UK and into Europe, if the Irish want to play games we can cut off the route into europe making it more expensive for Irish consumers

@rich jezzer: The only one playing games are the Brits.

@rich jezzer: As for you cutting off the route to Europe, you are aware that we have direct links to the Continent and can bypass you completely, aren’t you?

@Johnny Gunn: I remember when it took 6 hours to get to Mayo before the EU upgraded our infrastructure. The UK just needs to get out already, the whinging wankbags. They made their bed, they can lie in it. They don’t get to negotiate any borders. They’ll take what Ireland and the greater EU gives them. Meanwhile, I’m watching my home in inner city Dublin skyrocket in value as companies look to relocate. Jolly good show! TTFN, UK!

@Philip Gerard: companies look to relocate? Which ones and how many jobs?

@Johnny Gunn: The Brits certainly aren’t.

@Paul Fahey: Can’t use google???
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/29/ireland-says-dozen-london-based-banks-to-relocate-to-dublin-over-brexit

@Paul Fahey: Here’s another. The Journal only let’s you post X amount of links per post. You’re a smart man. Look up the rest yourself.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/brexit-drives-registration-of-100-000-uk-firms-in-ireland-1.2985509

@Philip Gerard: who wants to live in inner city Dublin?

@Philip Gerard: wow, they are some links, but they offer nothing. The first one is the word of the IDA and then goes on to talk about JP Morgan who have been very clear they are expanding and this does not relate to Brexit; how do I know this? My wife is an Exec Director. It fails to give any detail on jobs, no numbers, nothing. The second link is just absurd, 100,000 UK companies, hilarity ensues, but agin not a mention of a single job.
You keep believing the soundbytes , but there are very very few Brexit jobs heading for Ireland.

@Trevor Hayden: Then why are the Brits risking it all and causing this mess?

@Ían Ó Ceallaigh: The British, i believe will come out the better from leaving Europe Ian, not only can they lower their corporation tax but reduce cost of living, energy and entice foreign investment now their not paying Europe extortionate levys.
I only wish we were the first to jump ship.

@Trevor Hayden: Again who’s problem is that? They will only have themselves to blame. As I originally said this is a mess entirely of their own making.

@Trevor Hayden: they can already do all you describe from within the EU!

@Trevor Hayden: How are they going to reduce cost of living facing food very high food tariffs. No one was stopping them reducing their corporate tax rate while in the EU, so why didn’t they do it then? As for foreign investment – why would someone invest in the UK and restrict themselves to a market of 60 million when they could invest into an EU country that has tariff free access to a 450m market?

@Jamie Fitzgibbon: The Asian market is another market England can trade with, Europe is not the ultimate in world trade, big yes but if other European countries want to trade within the UK I can’t see Angela and Mario getting away with telling them the UK is off limits, that would be in line with dictatorship.
Although I have seen the friendly temperament of Europe change since the crash of 08. so nothing would surprise me.

@Trevor Hayden: Trade deals take years of negotiation. So what is the UK going to do in those intervening years. And whats more everyone knows that the UK will be desperate for any form of trade deal. Any deal that they do strike can be guaranteed to leave the UK as the junior partner.

@Trevor Hayden: Nothing stopping the UK trading with Asia now and they don’t seem to be doing it. In the German elections debate on tv, there was no mention of Brexit, so I’m not sure anyone in Europe is too bothered about Brexit.

@Trevor Hayden: Don’t think the Asians are that fond of bisto, unfortunately.

@Trevor Hayden: There’s nothing to stop you jumping ship yourself.

@Ken Loughman: True ken, except a mortgage in negative equity. But hopefully I’ll be considered an ex pat in a decade or so, and say goodbye to this European mess.

@Johnny Gunn: The Border will have very little effect on the South. It is the North that will suffer most. And as long as NI remains part of the UK it will be London’s headache.

@Chad: Fine Gael this morning issued a statement describing themselves as a “European party” they do not care for the people of Ireland.

@Louis Jacob: really? Could you remind us who looked after their own interests during the financial crisis, was it the British that foisted all that debt in to us, much of it belonging to French and German banks, or was it the British that gave us a significant loan at outer time of need.

@Mick Jordan: That is not what hauliers are saying in the border region, they are worried about the delays caused by the introduction of a customs border..

@Chris Kirk: There is going to be Red Tape no matter hard or soft. And it looks increasingly like it’s going to be a hard Brexit the UK including NI will be trading under WTO rules. So those Hauliers in the South that are depending on NI business had better have a plan B ready to go in 2019.

@Johnny Gunn: it’s clowns like you on here that really make my blood boil. Are you a shinners head the stupid idiotic comments that come out of your mouth are an embarrassment even to that shower of muppets. If you have nothing useful to say then shut up.

Every time you comment you confirm you lack of brain cells. Shut up and people might just think you are stupid rather than you confirming it

@The Risen:

The Irish Government are taking the same stance:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/28/taoiseach-leo-varadkar-ireland-not-design-border-brexiteers

Why would we go out of our way to sort out their Brexit border that we don’t want? Brexit is British policy. It’s up to them to sort it out.

@Mick Jordan: as above, serious negative impact on the likes of Donegal and that is the ROI’s problem.

@gjpb: The Border counties will just have to adjust. Will it effect Cork, Offaly, Galway, Wexford, Dublin or Clare?

@Mick Jordan: tell me how they will just have to adjust considering the likes of Donegal is hugely dependant on the North.

maybe Cork won’t be impacted as much as Donegal but the border counties will certainly be hit and you said the ROI won’t be impacted.

also, anything to upset the peace process will also upset the ROI.

narrow minded thinking from you.

@gjpb: Simply put they won’t have a choice but to adjust. Should the rest of the country jump because Donegal wants the easy life? And the endangerment of the Peace Process is entirely on the UK’s shoulders. If it crashes they have nobody to blame but themselves. So as the EU and the Irish Government have said “this is your mess you fix it”.

@Mick Jordan: you said the ROI won’t be impacted and i’m telling you that it will.

you are making incorrect statements.

@The Risen: i see that second to trolling your favourite hobby is brit-licking.

@Danny Rafferty:
You obviously don’t know much about Risen

@gjpb: The ROI as a whole won’t.

@Mick Jordan: so you are changing your view now.

Also every single article says a hard brexit will negatively impact the ROI. Yet you know better. I think I know who to trust

@gjpb: How do you make that out.
A hard Brexit will cripple the UK economy. WTO rules, will mean min 25% tariffs add to that a weak Pound and inflation in the UK will sky rocket. And the UK will still need to import the food it simply cannot produce themselves. (the result of 200 years of the wholesale abandoning of agriculture in favour of industrialisation and urbanisation).And the rest of the world know the UK will be desperate for trade deals. And so you can guarantee not a single one will be favorable to the UK economy.

@Mick Jordan:
And you think a crippled UK economy isn’t going to have a negative impact on the Irish economy?? Wow.

@Avina Laaf: We will still have a market of 450 million to sell to plus the EU trade deals with Canada, Japan, China, Australia etc, that have already been negotiated and are in place. And with Irish companies on the whole preparing for the hardest of hard Brexits the impact will be a lot less severe than it would have a decade ago. So the future is bright, the future is European.

@Mick Jordan: you are deflecting now

@gjpb: First I was changing my view now I am deflecting. You want to male up your mind.

@Mick Jordan:
Markets in which we’ll be competing with any number of other countries. And let’s not forget that the UK are our largest overseas tourist market by a country mile – you’re not going to just replace them with Japanese, Australians etc..

@Mick Jordan: oh dear, you may want to research what a real EU trade deal is, because the EU have been negotiating with China to upgrade the trade agreement with China to an EU Association Agreement since 2007, which has still not been completed. The newly negotiated (after a decade) CETA (Canada) is not currently applicable; Japan and the EU have had 18 negotiation meetings since 2013 and there is still not an agreement on a new trade agreement; US, perhaps you should research the current status of TTIP and you will see where that is going.

@Mick Jordan: changed your view in that you said the ROI wasn’t going to be impacted at all to that overall it would not be impacted.

Then you started waffling about the UK economy when we weren’t talking about the UK

@gjpb: It is not going to be impacted to the extent that you Brexteers are hoping. It will be a mild inconvenience sure but any company that is not preparing for a hard Brexit now are total idiots and shouldn’t be in business. But on the whole it will affect the Irish economy that much.

@Paul Fahey: 2019 is still 15 months away. Those deals will be finalised or close to it at that time. But the UK can only just begin their trade talks at that time. How many years have the EU been negotiating these deals? And the UK think they can get one quicker that will give them favourable or at least equal status!!! You Brexiteers must live in a fairytale world where you think everything is going to be just rosey as soon as you exit the EU. For us in the EU it is like watching a car driving at full speed towards a very steep cliff edge.

@Mick Jordan: you really are hilarious, but yes the UK will be very Kuching able to negotiate trade deals much quicker than the EU, without question. You have also wilfully ignored the fact you gave factually incorrect information about the EU and trade deals, so instead you revert to the UK, exactly what another poster has accused you of.

@Mick Jordan: I am not a brexiteer!!! Where did you make that up from???

As I said every experienced analyst is fearing a hard border from a ROI standpoint but you with all your knowledge says it will be a mild inconvenience. Lol

@Michael O’Neill: the place is full of people like him umfortunately they spout utter rubbish no substance to anything theu say

@Mick Jordan:
I never mentioned London.

@Avina Laaf:
Although let’s not forget that when we were hung out to dry London offered us loans at much more favourable terms than the EU did.

@Avina Laaf: highly discounted loans now due to Nigel and his buddies. And the harder the brexit, the bigger the discount.
I they’re literally saving us billions.

@Avina Laaf: London are trying to use us as a lever against the EU. Not for our benefit but for their own. But we are not going to play ball. We are part and parcel of the EU. They shot themselves in the foot with Brexit. So why not let them lay in the bed of their own making.

@Mick Jordan:
I don’t think you’ve quite grasped the implications of Brexit on the Irish economy, as your comments elsewhere in this thread indicate.

@Avina Laaf: On the contrary it is you and the anti EU crowd that are trying to instil a sence of dread were there is none. In the past 40 years we have drastically reduced our dependence on the UK market place. But the UK haven’t reduced their dependence on our Agri/food sector. They need us far more than we need them. They are still going to need their meat, dairy, and other agri produce after Brexit. And trade deals with the US, South American countries, Australia and Asian countries are only going to start being negotiated in 2019 and will take several years to finalise. The UK population will still need to eat in the intervening years. We have fed the UK for 200 years. You think they plan on going hungry?

@Gus Sheridan: You must have missed the bit where we are the fastest growing economy in the EU.