No, there were no demands to “suspend the constitution”. Stop reading rt.com

The call for the march went out on Semyon Semenchnko’s fb page. He is commander of the terrorist Donbass battalion. Close ally of Avakov, the regimes interior minister. Check his fb page it’s there in Ukrainian. What I love about western propagandists like yourself is the “stop watching rt” line.

Good. If you can read Semenchenko Facebook, please stop pretending you are “john” “deegan”. He doesn’t write in English.

I don’t read Ukrainian. My Russian is pretty bad too. There are lots of concerned Russians who can translate into English. You are now, as we Irish say, “playing the man, not the ball”.

How come you listen to “concerned Russians” when you try to find out what is going on in Ukraine?

That’s about as ridiculous as listening to UKIP when trying to understand Galway politics.

You think this is about Ukraine? Wow, you’ve watched too much western TV Ivan.

I don’t watch TV. But my family lives in eastern Ukraine, so yes, somehow I have a feeling that all this has something to do with Ukraine.

The US could care two hoots about Ukraine or her people. It has absolutely no strategic or economic significance to Ukraine. Ukraine is however very important to Russia. Economic, linguistic, defence even 20% of the country are actually Russians and large parts of it were part of Russia until the 20th century. I’m not trying to offend you those are just facts. Ukraine is revenge for Syria and a shot across the bow to prevent Russia from ever challenging the US as she did as the Soviet Union. The plan was to unleash the heavily funded “orange revolution” brigade, now euro maidan this time with newly trained up nazis Pravy Sektor which was only formed last Oct. destabilise the country, topple the elected leader etc all the usual CIA play book. They thought they could do it this time better than 2004 and kick Russia out from Secastopol. Luckily for Russia Putin is in charge. You have to get up early to pull the wool over the eyes of a KGB colonel. I don’t think the US really believed they would really get the blank sea port. Anyway long dirty war on Russia’s doorstep. If Putin invades he’s the new bogey man and we get new Cold War. If he doesn’t he looks weak to the Russians and they can get at him that way. Now tide is turning as rebels hold out and maybe Putin set a trap to show to the western people how awful and unreasonable US foreign policy is. In any case Ukraine is just a pawn. A pawn the US doesn’t need.

On a serious note my thoughts are with you and your family. I hope they are safe. It’s truly heart breaking the scenes coming from some parts of East Ukraine.

Of course Ukraine was part of Russian empire before 20th century.

And Ireland was part of British empire.

And India. And Nigeria. And Indonesia was Netherlands’ colony. And prior to that Texas was part of Mexico.

No, wait! Now I’m lost… Can you remind me why you think it’s very important that Ukraine was part of Russia a hundred years ago?

It’s important because two great powers are fighting a proxy war in Ukraine. One of them has actual cultural, linguistic and economic ties to Ukraine, another has no ties. One considers a hostile Ukraine on her doorstep to be very bad and dangerous to her own security. The other is 10k km away. One has 8 million of her ethnic brothers in Ukraine, the other none. One used to have territory of Ukraine that used to be part of her 100 years ago, the other not. So which of the great powers US and Russia is on the offensive, putting aside your Ukrainian nationalism?

Russia is on the offensive, there’s no doubt about it, and “nationalism” has nothing to do with it. Russia occupied Crimea, and are now bringing death to hundreds of Ukrainian families.

On the other hand, I’ve yet to hear that USA killed at least one Ukrainian on our own territory.

The Crimean people voted overwhelmingly to have absolutely nothing to do with a regime of jack booted Nazis one of which assured them on TV that he would send his people to Crimea to “slit the throat of every Russian”. They voted to rejoin their own country having been temporarily separated since 1954. And I applaud them for that. More people died in Dublin than died in that whole operation in Crimea. You can spin the whole “it’s the Russians who have invaded the East” nonsense if you like the fact is it’s ordinary men and women in East Ukraine who have taken up arms against the sickening regime in Kiev which passes for government. If Russia had wanted to invade Ukraine they could have done it 3 months ago and would have rolled tanks up to the Polish border within hours. Putin even advised the rebels to delay the independence referendum. Your claims make no sense.

Russia has killed hundreds of Ukrainian people, while US has killed none. That’s about as complicated as it gets.

John they DID invade Ukraine. Remember all those heavily armed and masked men in Crimea that Russia denied all knowledge of until after the fact. From the very beginning I said they were Russian Marines but the Putinistas on here declared that in no way were they Russian troops but “Local Militia” and then Russia finally admitted that yes those Masked and Armed men were Marines from their base in Sevastopol.
Are we now to believe Russia when it says “oh no we are not supplying the separatists in Eastern Ukraine with Tanks, Artillery, Anti Aircraft Guns and Missiles”? When the lied about what they were doing in Crimea.

And again. Russia has no presence in East Ukraine. You have zero proof of any Russian troops in East Ukraine. Putin asked the rebels not to hold the referendum. The Russians did not invade even though they could have taken down your rag tag army of nazis and scared kids in about 8 hours flat. Finally East Ukraine is home to 8 million Russians so that’s a pretty large pool of potential volunteers without any need for help from Putin. So you have no proof and your assertion makes absolutely no logical sense. But hey carry on your government talks this nonsense all the time.

Mick they absolutely had to act in Crimea. There is just no way they could have let a bunch of rabid Nazis oust them from Sevastapol. It was a non starter and I suspect the US knew that. They moved very quickly in crimea as it was obviously thought out beforehand. Still they already had a military base there and the people there wanted to rejoin Russia that is incontrovertible now 3 months later. And there was a referendum. You can argue it all day long the fact is the legality of Crimea was much stronger than the Iraq invasion and just as strong as the Kosovo secession. In the East the situation is less cut and dry. To be honest I half expected them to annex the entire East up to Kiev. Putin did ask for the referendum to be delayed and he clearly doesn’t want the East to become part of Russia. Yet if the humanitarian situation deteriorates he would have to act.

Why the subterfuge? Why the denials about Russian Troops? Sevastopol was not Russia’s it had a lease. Just like any tenant they did not own what they were renting. They took by Force what did not belong to them. And as for the referendum why did they refuse to allow independent observers over see it? Why only those hand picked by Moscow? Was it because that Moscow was not going to let Crimea say NO to Russia under any circumstances?

Tenants do have rights. Sevastapol was agreed to be rented out to Russia until 2042 if Russia met certain conditions which she did. Ukraine announced the intention to unilaterally cancel. Crimea is on try region of 70% Russian population. The contention that Russians were forced to join Russia against their will, the alternative being rule by coup gov with a cabinet 30% Nazis is not credible. And the last 3 months proved it again. The subterfuge used was of a far lesser order than for example insisting that Asad used chemical weapons as an excuse to invade Syria when all evidence suggests he didnt, the US saying they have evidence yet not showing it. Like I say hypocrisy and double standards do as the west says not as it does.

The new lease had not been signed yet. And was not going to be signed by the new government. This why Russia acted. As for how the population would have voted in a free and fair referendum we will never know. As for the winning numbers they also included the dead, juveniles and those that refused to take part in the sham. Russia was never going to allow Ukraine to take away it’s only warm water port. So to insure that it permanently remains in Russian hands the cooked up the referendum to annex Crimea.

And I suppose we are to believe that the US intended to respect the democratically elected presidents decisions when it conflicted with their interests? Do you think that actions should not result in reactions? The laws of physics apply to the “exceptional and indispensable nation” too even if she doesn’t like it.

Mick on the subject of Crimea. Have you seen the latest Gallup poll taken in Ukraine? 2% of Crimean residents view the US favourably compared to 71% who do view Russia favourably. Crimeans disagree with your wild speculation about the annexation against their will. 83% of them accept that the referendum was free and fair.
http://www.bbg.gov/wp-content/media/2014/06/Ukraine-slide-deck.pdf I think it’s fair to say we can close the file on that one.

Derek, who is trying to justify anything regarding the Ukraine? We’re merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the Russian government.

agreed mick that was disgusting and thats exactly why russia is an imperialist country who does disgust me,they happen not to be the aggressor in this particular situation though

Jeremy, Russia are very much an aggressor in this. It was Russian troops seizing buildings in Crimea on the run-up to the annexation. It’s Russia who is allowing heavy weaponry and ‘volunteers’ to flow freely across the border to fuel the rebels.

ohh and why did they do this ?? was it in response to an illegal over throw of the government with right wing elements playing a large role ?? was it because their people in ukraine were treated as second class citizens,with their language banned ?? or was it putin woke up one day and said “hey lets attack the ukraine,our closest neighbour” or why did russia do it ??

did the the people of crimea vote on it or does democracy only count when they vote with how you agree ?? why no mention fo the fact that crimea was historically part of russia and several parts of eastern ukraine but was “given” to ukraine by a UKRAINIAN premier of the soviet union in the 50′s,does this not merit mention ???

In Ukrainian presidential elections the two right candidates got (combined!) half of the votes cast for a relatively unknown Jewish community leader.

In a separate news, a quarter of European Parliament is right wing.

ok ivan,what is your point ??? that is completely irrelevant information

“Right wing elements playing a large role” – that’s your words. The truth is, it’s not right or left “elements”, it’s the people of Ukraine from all walks of life and of all ideologies removed the president.

If someone who you hire doesn’t perform, and in addition steals from you, you fire them and report to police. That’s what happened. Nothing personal.

Jeremy. Lets get the Facts right. The Former President resigned just before he was impeached. The Russian language was never banned. A proposal was put to the democratically elected Parliament and was heavily defeated. Ethnic Russians in Ukraine were never treated as second class citizens. Russia knowing that the new lease for their Naval Base in Sevastopol was not going to be signed by the new President invaded Crimea to secure it’s only warm water port. And Putin seeing his plans for an Eurasian Economic zone to rival the EU disappear is determined to destabilize as much of Ukraine as he possibly can because they snubbed him.

ivan you are talking nonsense,you juts said it was ukranians of all walks of life do i really have to go any further with this ????

impeached and why was that ?? was it peaceful protests ? why were american politicians on the ground fermenting trouble,how would america react if a ukranian politician showed up at the wall street protests ??

the russians of eastern ukraine were threatened beaten and put on the back foot,mick it is quite obviouly the case,what is their gripe so ?? are they doing it for the craic ??

why did you ignore my point about crimea being historically part of russia and a ukranian ruler of the soviet union giving it to them ??

why did you ignore the fact that the people of crimea voted to join russia ???

do you think this scenario suits putin ??? a unfriendly government on his door step,gas wars and to be owed billions from the ukraine,yeah id say rubbing his hands with glee allright

Yes, Jeremy, that’s precisely what I’m saying – Ukrainians from all walks of life removed the president. And they did it not because they are left or right, rich or poor, but simply because he was leading the country to collapse and to losing its sovereignty.

The fact that his son miraculously went from dentist to multi-billionaire during his years as president is a typical example of what kind of president he was.

ivan he was without doubt corrupt like every single preident of ukraine before him,did you ever read about them ?? they were all scandalously corrupt no doubt

look you have a reasonable tome about you so i dont want to insult you but i said the overthrow had large elements of the right wing and you say it was all walks of life,we arent disagreeing with each other !!

Would this be the vote in Crimea that was held with Russian soldiers and armed Russian Thugs manning every public building and doing the count? And as for Russia giving Crimea to Ukraine it also gave Alaska to the US does that mean they can invade to take it back too?

Jeremy, unlike yourself, I don’t have any need to read about past Ukrainian presidents. I lived there for 31 years. I also know first hand what kind of people were on Maidan, simply because I know personally a lot of them.

Oh, and I’m from the East Ukraine where all my family still lives.

So yes, I know exactly what is going on in Ukraine.

jesus ivan you are very obtuse to say the least and rather than talking pompously to me tell me am i wrong in what i said about the presidents of ukraine ???

and am i wrong that the right wing played a large role in everything ?? and before you harp on about large,its relative and i would consider getting half the vote even combined in the presidential election to show significant support,answer me those two questions please ivan

Jeremy, you are definitely correct in saying that all Ukrainian presidents were corrupt. There’s absolutely no doubt about this. But it had to stop somewhere, and Yanukovich was the last drop.

But you are wrong when you say that far right ideology had any major influence on what has happened in Ukraine.

The two right candidates got about 1% each, in the presidential elections.

Civilian casualties from this campaign will be massive,if earlier assaults by the Western Ukrainian army are anything to go by.Poroshenko has just consigned the edge of Europe to years of civil war.Merkel and the EU will be furious,although Poroshenko’s handlers in the US State Dept.and Pentagon who cajoled him into making this insane decision will be pleased.
The shambolic Ukrainian army cannot win a military campaign in the East.

fair enough ivan and hopefully for ye it does stop,though as far as i know the man in charge now is a oligarch but anyway it may not have a major influence but is a major part of it,if that makes any sense to you ?? i could be still wrong but their is a distinction between the two,lots of people and organisations yield far more power than people they represent,sof example the tobaco indistry or AIPAC in america for example and if i am not mistaken they have the post of deputy prime minister and up ten ministers have links to the right anyway ivan i have no gripe with you or your opinon

i am however waiting on mick to come back to me

Scipio, that’s total b*t. Ukrainian army is much better equipped than it used to be. Also – unless you weren’t aware of that – the area where military operations are being conducted only constitutes about 5% of the territory of Ukraine. There will be some non-combatant casualties, for sure, but anyone who wants to stay safe can do so and move out of the area at any time. Either further into Ukraine, or to Russia, or even to temporarily occupied Crimea.

Jeremy I did come back to you if you check my previous comment.
And You spoke of American Politicians on the ground, is it wrong for Western Politicians to provide moral support in a private capacity?
What of continuous overt and covert Russian interference in Ukrainian elections since the founding of the state. What about the FSB’s poisoning of one of the former Presidents? What of Russia’s threats and intimidation of Ukraine? What of the out right lies from the Kremlin regarding having Russian Marines on the streets of Crimea before they illegally annexed it? What of the Sham vote they held in Eastern Ukraine where the outcome and winning percentage were decided before any vote took place?

Jeremy, I definitely agree with what you are saying.

And as far as Ukraine is concerned, it is almost certain that far right parties will lose at the next parliamentary elections altogether.

So I guess the point I’m trying to get across, is that Ukraine is definitely not a far-right country with nazis occupying the government. Far from that. If anything, Ukraine is very left – which is just as bad.

Ukraine doesn’t have as many Nazis in parliament as it did when the US launched the coup. Pravy Sektor are now the new national guard, they’ve been promised land in the East once the “subhumans” are cleansed. Then it will be “Slava Ukrainia” all the way until enough innocents are murdered that the rest fall into line. It won’t be so easy though. First they have to win back the border. A lot of well armed fighter will give their lives before that happens. And Colonel Strelkov is an inspiring and extremely talented leader. I think they’ll hold out long enough for a Nazi counter coup to bring this Kiev regime crashing down in an orgy of nazi fanaticism and financial collapse.

“they’ve been promised land in the East once the “subhumans” are cleansed.Then it will be “Slava Ukrainia” all the way until enough innocents are murdered that the rest fall into line.”

Talk about hysterical propaganda.

What I like about your post is that it shows how ridiculous Russian propaganda is.

Especially that part about “the land”. Eastern Ukraine is about the most polluted place on earth. No sane person would ever agree to live there.

Yet millions live there. It’s an industrial area not agricultural area. Have you any more incorrect facts you can regale us with?

Thanks Mick.

Here’s the proof of the “land for war” Kiev policy. I guess those Pravy Sektor loons don’t know the land is crap? http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraines-land-agency-give-land-to-soldiers-in-the-east-for-free-352100.html

Again, the area where military operations are being conducted, is heavily industrialised territory around Donetsk and Luhansk. Where orange smog is pretty much the regular view.

Trying to persuade someone that people might want to have that land (which, again, constitutes about 5% of Ukrainian territory) is about as ridiculous as promising someone that they can have a former uranium mine for themselves.

Well I guess it proves the Ukrainian army regular isn’t as smart as your good self.

What outrageous piece of propaganda are you going to come up with next John?
Maybe it will be “They are coming to kill your men and elderly, rape your women and enslave your Children”. Or maybe ” They are slaughtering Babies in their cots”.

Slaughtering babies in cots. You refer to the Kuwaiti ambassadors daughter who the US coached before the first gulf war. It takes one to know one. Though there are reports of girls going missing in the village of Schastye where Kiev regime national guard forces are active. But I haven’t been able to get a convincing enough report to satisfy myself so I didn’t put that one out yet.

Slaughtering babies in their cots, the US already used that 1 didn’t they? Who was it said that again? Kuwaiti ambassador to the US daughter?

& the rape the women well that was another bit of propaganda to justify bombing Libya back to the stone age in the process of helping alqaeda run amok in the country.

Joe weren’t you one of those claiming that the CIA were backing Yulia Tymoshenko to win the Election. Now suddenly Poroshenko is the CIA’s man. If Jesus won that election and wasn’t the Kremlin’s man you would claim he was the CIA’s man.

I may well have said that at some stage I honestly can’t remember, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that Poroshenko was reporting back to the Americans the inner goings on in Ukrainian politics around 2006 onward, also showed him to influencing some in the Cabinet at the time.

Have a look yourself at the Poroshenko wiki cables yourself if you don’t believe me, you’d swear I was making it up.

mick i had since replied to that so no you hadnt

to be honest i am sick of talking to you,there are other on the site with similar opinions mick and i might not like them but at least they can have a debate and actually answer what id put to them,you are jsut going in circles throwing accusations,”but the russians did this” etc etc i am no apologist for russia,they have plenty of blood on their hands but this situation is americas doing,if you ever want to know who starts something ask who benefits the most and it certainly isnt the ukrainian people nor the russians

you are like a child,well he did it first or he did that,this isnt your first time being afraid to answer a question and i am sure it wont be your last,you are a coward mick

jesus ivan its mad,we werent disagreeing in the slightest !!!! it is a touchy subject things get heated and wires crossed

yeah i accept its not a far right country jsut small elements of it and i hope they that are are pushed out !! and yes very insightful of you the left is jsut as bad,its all about balance,i hope it all works out for you and yours ivan

Over 50% of voters electing a president is not democracy? Very interesting.

Would that be the regional referendum in which the results were being decided several days in advance during a leaked phone call?

Democracy Russian-style in action….

Too right Padraic. And of course Russia was fully supported at the time of the Chechen war by the west. War on terror and all that. What country would allow a caliphate to be established within her own borders? Now president Kadyrov maintains a peaceful Chechnya, with plans for it to be the richest federal subject in Russia. That’s real problem solving for you as Kadyrovs own father was killed by the Russians in the first Chechen war. That’s the difference, Russia finds solutions, the west prolongs war for its own sake.

The US gov printing up funny money to buy off everything that moves in a country so that it will act in total contravention to its own interests to the benefit of a tiny elite is a very interesting version of democracy. Welcome to the west Ivan.

The west’s ‘deadly embrace’ didn’t seem to work out too badly for Poland John…

Poland imports over 90% of its gas from Russia yet is forced to impose sanctions on her. You think she will feel the pinch if there is an “interruption” in supply? It is choc full of US offensive weapons pointed at Russia. You think it will be at risk at all if war breaks out? The Polish Foreign minister likened his country’s pointless US alliance to giving head without receiving anything in return.

I can quote you statistics all day about Poland’s huge economic growth, low unemployment etc. since becoming part of Europe, but perhaps the most meaningful is that after a decade of membership 80% of Poles believe it was the correct decision to join.

Poland joined up at the right time. Things have changed a lot since then. The immediate future is not necessarily going to be just like the past. Btw Russia has had quite a resurgence herself since 2000.

I wonder if the French are enjoying US attempts at blackmail. Who exactly does the euro Atlantic alliance benefit more, Europe or the US?
http://mobile.businessweek.com/news/2014-07-01/putin-says-u-dot-s-blackmailed-france-over-mistral-with-bnp-fine

Now the Canadians, the US most shrill and compliant lapdogs during the Ukraine crisis, are beginning to see that actions can have reactions. Perhaps if they considered their own interests once again rather than US interests it could be beneficial for them. I wonder which of the western US puppet governments will be the first the break ranks. My money in on Germany. It is my contention that the US is abusing her alliance partners to pursue an ideologically driven foreign policy that benefits nobody. Oh and it’s not nice to spy on your alliance partners. The Russians are ever diplomatic in public yet referring to their “US partners”. In Russia the country is actively preparing for WW3. The west really should wake up as it seems occasionally she threatens to do so.
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2688655

@ John Deegan : “I wonder which of the western US puppet governments will be the first the break ranks. My money in on Germany”
Eric Snowden revealed last week that the NASA have been spying on the ECB. This in addition to spying on most large and middle sized German companies and financial institutions, is causing growing anger among the business class. Direct investment last year amounted to 32 billion Euros and this year 42 billion are planed. They have also invested heavily in the north stream gas pipeline which avoid Ukraine and are not going to ship shale gas over the Atlantic at an extra cost of at least 50%.

Indeed Padraic I saw that. It gives a whole new meaning to the terms “friendly nation” and “alliance”. With regard to our own country Ireland, did you know that it was Timothy Geithner who vetoed our decision, with IMF support if you please, to write down bondholder debt that I and my children will be paying for into the 2040s? Our Taoiseach Enda Kenny says all ECB correspondence in the run up to the bank bailout was “shredded”. I wonder do our “US partners” know what exactly happened? I suspect they not only knew but were calling the shots.

@ John Deegan : Above I meant direct investment from Germany in Russia. This is what the US are trying to undermine at the moment. Unfortunately some German politicians still do not want to believe this.
As to the bondholder debt :You say these documents of extreme historical value and interest were shredded ?
Copies nowhere ?

Padraic I will clarify now with supporting links. Our current Taoiseach claims the previous FF gov shredded the bank guarantee papers relating to 2008. With regard to the ECB, we simply do not know what the exact nature of the communications were between the ECB and our gov ie we don’t know what the threat was if our gov didn’t do the banksters bidding. We now know the US gov stopped our debt writedown in 2010 and that they were spying all along on the ECB. The whole thing stinks to high heaven if you ask me but I will leave you to draw your own conclusions.
http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/kenny-sticks-by-claim-guarantee-papers-shredded-30381983.html
http://thestory.ie/2014/03/07/ecb-again-refuses-release-of-trichetlenihan-bailout-letter/

Padraic the US gov power is beyond any this planet has ever seen. Did you know they recently rowed in on the Scottish independence referendum which is upcoming? They expressed a desire for Scotland to not become independent. Do you want to take a guess at what the outcome of the referendum will be? The current UK prime minister has stated he will offer a referendum on EU membership if elected next term. The US has expressed a desire that the UK remain in the EU. Do you think the UK will ever leave the EU?
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/may/27/eu-exit-risks-us-trade-deal
http://academicentrepreneur.wordpress.com/2014/06/10/commentary-on-the-usas-intervention-in-the-scottish-independence-issue/

Check out the Wikileaks cables on poroshenko circa 2006, CIA man….

Yes, it was a real ceasefire. During which 27 Ukrainian soldiers were killed.

The thugs were given a chance to negotiate, they didn’t use it and kept killing Ukrainian soldiers. Now they will be wiped out from the face of the earth.

It wasn’t a ceasefire. At first it was an ultimatum delivered by Kiev saying they would cease fire and that the rebels were to disarm. That is terms for surrender not a ceasefire. The rebels requested a 10km withdrawal by Kiev forces as terms for ceasefire agreement it didn’t happen. During that time at the continuously shelled town of Slavyansk a military helicopter travelling in the area was shot down by defence forces of the town. I see you have learned the Kiev style of talking, which Kiev learned from the CIA. Wonderful but it will take more than tough words to win this war. By referring to the defenders as “subhumans”, coming to power on the back of a nazi coup, offering land to the victorious fighters, and having Nazis running around burning people alive in broad daylight your idiotic government in Kiev has merely guaranteed that the rebels will fight like dogs, knowing the fate that awaits “subhumans” when they’re caught.

The (pro-)Russian terrorists can not “demand” anything from Ukrainian army which is defending its own country. They were given a chance to de-escalate the situation, but they failed to use it. Instead, they killed 27 soldiers and shot down a helicopter which didn’t even have weapons on it.

Now they will die, and are already dying. Today, a former spokesperson for one of the self proclaimed “governors” said they lost 1000 men. Very good day, if you ask me.

Btw, I never referred to terrorists as “subhumans”. And your idea that I somehow learned CIA style of talking is laughable. My mother and my sister live in eastern ukraine, a small part of which is temporarily controlled by pro russian thugs. It doesn’t take an entire CIA to come to a conclusion that they will be much safer once those gangs are destroyed.

No it was your prime minister Yatsenyuk who described the “subhumans” in the East as those who “sponsor terrorists”. He put that up on the Ukraine embassy in US web page. I suspect you would approve of his sentiments. Btw Yatsenyuk has less legitimacy democratically speaking than the “thugs” in the East who have a mandate for independence from a referendum. Yatsenyuk the banker was appointed after a CIA controlled coup executed on Feb 21.

Ukraine has democratically elected parliament and now also a president. The fact that some terrorists control a very small part of Ukraine cannot change it. And no, those millions of people who voted (years ago) in the parliamentary elections, and now also in presidential, don’t work for US government or the CIA.

Yeah but Poroshenko does it seems, care to comment on that Ivan?
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06KIEV1706_a.html

Really. You see to my western eye and knowing just a little bit about how things are supposed to work in a democracy, I thought that when a president is elected to serve a term, and when he makes his lawful decisions concerning trade agreements, that people are entitled to protest peacefully. Now what is just a little bit unusual here in the west is the sight of armed protestors shooting at the police. And those same protestors wearing Nazi insignia. And then what confused me about your so wonderfully democratic country is that those same armed groups actually occupied government buildings after all parties (except the Nazis) agreed that the president would stay in power. You see in a democracy we usually wait for the election before getting rid of the president. And then it confuse me more when a story was made up after the president was kicked out violently that he was “impeached”. But to be impeached parliament needed 333 votes but only got 327. And then the constitutional court was disbanded. Oh and of course we heard the phone conversation of the US discussing the next gov. That was before the “protests”. And coincidentally those same people, including Yatsenyuk, were duly appointed. You see there is a term for that, we call it “coup d’état”.

A few notes from another cable in 2009:
14. (C) Ukraine supports the opening of a U.S. diplomatic presence in Crimea, Poroshenko told the Secretary. He emphasized the importance of Crimea, and said that having U.S. representation there would be useful for Ukraine. Poroshenko requested a meeting for President Yushchenko with the President on December 18 in Copenhagen. He also invited Secretary Clinton to visit Ukraine, noting that he understood the many competing demands for her time.

7. (C) Secretary Clinton reiterated that the United States stood behind the Budapest Memorandum security assurances and that these assurances had not changed with the expiration of the START Treaty. She emphasized that the United States envisioned multiple pathways to NATO membership. The United States, however, had received mixed messages from Ukraine during its presidential campaign, and Ukraine’s friends wondered whether Ukrainians really wanted NATO membership. The United States continued to support Ukraine’s eventual membership in NATO, but the Secretary reminded Poroshenko that all aspirants must meet NATO standards. She noted that during the December 3 NATO-Ukraine Commission meeting, Allies commended Ukraine on the finalization of its first Annual National Program and urged Ukraine to make further progress through its 2010 program.

Another cable from the US:
The new Team Orange would feature Yuliya Tymoshenko as prime minister and her rival, Petro Poroshenko, as the new Rada speaker. Poroshenko was tainted by credible corruption allegations, but wielded significant influence within OU; Poroshenko’s price had to be paid. Given the bad blood between Poroshenko and Tymoshenko, Bezsmertny said he had serious doubts about the coalition’s viability…….. In response to questions about the logic of making Poroshenko Rada speaker, Bezsmertny said there was no other way to create an Orange coalition. Poroshenko’s reputation was tainted by serious corruption allegations, but he wielded significant influence within Our Ukraine, and his interests had to be accommodated — it was as simple as that, Bezsmertny emphasized.

“Our Ukraine insider Poroshenko” lol He’s a CIA rat bag. I wonder where he got the cash to fund his chocolate empire. Maybe Pravy Sektor should be sent to the Ecuador embassy in London to “eliminate the subhuman” Assange who released this “poison”?

Or perhaps Ivan you will tell me that Pravy Sektor doesn’t exist but is just propaganda from rt? Lol

John. In case you don’t know “Our Ukraine” is a political party. So when the the Cable refers to Poroshenko as Our Ukraine insider it is referring to him moving in the inner circles of that Party.

Mick I did jump the gun a bit. I appreciate the clarification. I notice that the CIA chief entered Ukraine in cognito the day before Kiev launched its campaign in the East. I notice the exact same language used by Kiev as the US neocon warmongers used in their “war on terror”. I notice that the US dominated IMF is keeping Ukraine afloat and that Ukraines natural resources are being carved up by US corporate interests. I notice that the Kiev gov is being insanely unreasonable by not holding honest talks with the rebels as they have stated they will settle for something less than independence. I notice that Kiev policy doesn’t benefit Ukraine as much as the US. All in all I hold the Kiev government to be a US puppet regime. Though I don’t yet see hard evidence of Poroshenko being on the CIA payroll I strongly suspect he answers to them.

I was? Go back and find a comment were I explicitly said Tymoshenko was a CIA darling, I’m pretty sure I did not, but keep plugging away Mick trying to deflect away from the fact that Poroshenko is. xx