Advertisement

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

Shane Ross Oireachtas TV

The CRC hasn't asked for Paul Kiely to repay part of his €742K pay-out... yet

During today’s PAC meeting, Shane Ross questioned how the HSE could not know about the CRC’s charitable wing. He said it took him just 20 minutes to discover its existence.

Updated: 1.30pm

THE NEW CHAIR of the Central Remedial Clinic has said that the organisation is looking into the €742,000 pay-out made to former CEO Paul Kiely.

Kieran Timmins told the Public Accounts Committee that the group’s remuneration committee was “looking at it”.

“We don’t see the point in contacting Kiely until we have all the facts,” Timmins said.

Earlier, former Chair Hamilton Goulding rejected Independent TD Shane Ross’s suggestion that Kiely “wrote his own cheque” in terms of his retirement payoff.

When Goulding said he was unaware of  Kiely’s salary arrangement when he was appointed chair in 2010, Ross suggested it was “a secret because it’s so much”.

Goulding did admit that he “thought his level of pay would have been half of what it was”.

The Cregan Report into finances at the Clinic found that Kiely received a 2.5% pay increase in September 2008, bringing his overall pay to €234,449.

He was not affected by the public sector pay cuts introduced in January 2010.

Fine Gael TD Kieran O’Donnell asked how “Mr Kiely was able to basically come up with his own dowry” while cuts were imposed on other CRC staff.

hamilton crc 3 july Oireachtas TV Oireachtas TV

Hamilton added that a “confidentiality clause” prohibited the board from informing the HSE of Kiely’s salary. It was revealed in January that Kiely was paid a total retirement package of €742,025.

John Cregan, the interim administrator who conducted the report, said that “less than a handful of people” were still earning salaries that were outside of the HSE pay scale.

He later clarified that six people were in receipt of such salaries.

Cregan noted that these payments would have to be “red-circled” under 2015 due to contractual obligations.

Charitable wing

During the meeting, Laverne McGuinness, Chief Operations Officer at the HSE, said that she and her colleagues “didn’t appear to know about the existence” of the Friends and Supporters of the CRC, the charitable arm of the CRC.

Ross questioned how this could be the case, saying: “It didn’t take me more than about 20 minutes to find out about the Friends and Supporters and it and certainly didn’t take me more than 10 seconds to find out they had €40 million there”.

crc laverne 3 july Oireachtas TV Oireachtas TV

The Cregan Report, which was published last month, concluded that the CRC set up its charitable wing for the sole purpose of getting as much money as possible from the HSE.

McGuinness said that the Friends and Supporters group should be wound up and its functions transferred to the CRC Board as soon as possible. She added that excess money paid to Kiely should be recovered.

The report also found that the charity arm gave a loan of €3 million to the clinic to bail out its pension fund. It also repaid €550,000 on behalf of CRC Medical Devices, a company set up by the Clinic, which was sold last year at a loss. No one present was able to give specifics as to how much the sale cost.

Why are we here?

Goulding told the Committee he was unsure of why he was called before them today.

He said that the Cregan Report found “no wrongdoing and no need for further investigation”.

As such, he said it “slightly makes me wonder why we’re here”.

Goulding said that the report, which was carried out by interim administrator John Cregan, “positively and unequivocally exonerated the board.”

Sinn Féin’s Mary Lou McDonald pulled him up on this later, saying she would dismiss what he said as “throwaway” comments that she “shouldn’t read too much into”. Hamilton agreed.

McDonald then asked the new CRC board members to confirm that they were public servants and, as such, subject to questioning about their finances and potenital pay cuts.

Timmins confirmed on their behalf that this was the case.

crc timmins 3 july Kieran Timmins Oireachtas TV Oireachtas TV

Ross questioned the fact that the report into the Clinic was carried out by Cregan, who works for the HSE.

He said he was not disputing the report’s finding that “the board know ignored its obligations to HSE”, but said the report would have had “more credibility” if it was carried out by someone independent of the HSE.

‘Abandoned’

Hamilton denied that the board had “abandoned” the CRC when it resigned, as suggested in the report. He said the members “resigned because we were pushed”.

Following a meeting with the HSE in December, Hamilton said that the then CRC Chair Jim Nugent was ”very bluntly told if the whole board doesn’t go, HSE funding will cease”.

He said Nugent then told him: ”Ham, it’s over: the board all has to go.”

 Ross said that CRC should not have put its hand “into the pockets” of people who had made donations in order to top-up executive’s salaries.

Hamilton said that he felt “deep sadness and regret” about the controversies surrounding the Clinic. He noted that his mother founded the CRC when he was 4 years old, adding that he has been involved with it for decades.

“I can only apologise for any shortcomings or inadequacies on my part … I have to add, however, that nothing I did or failed to do happened with any motives other than what was the best for the Clinic.”

The meeting is ongoing

Originally published: 11.52am

Read: PAC will be discussing the CRC today, but who is going to turn up?

Related: The report into the CRC says it only set up its side charity to get more money from the HSE

Read: Former CRC chief rejects that any fundraised money was kept secret

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

Close
22 Comments
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul Shepherd
    Favourite Paul Shepherd
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 8:55 AM

    ….and prosecuted?

    458
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute D. Memery
    Favourite D. Memery
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:27 AM

    @Paul Shepherd: the article says they would have to be convicted, so I’d imagine a prosecution would be required to get to that stage.

    46
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute
    Favourite
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 11:26 AM

    @Paul Shepherd: They could only punish them once they’ve been prosecuted, so yes obviously.

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Brian O'Grady
    Favourite Brian O'Grady
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:00 AM

    Permanent ban on selling tobacco products if caught selling to minors.

    460
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Declan Doherty
    Favourite Declan Doherty
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:01 AM

    What about alcohol being sold to underage kids ? It’s a far more dangerous and toxic drug and can easily kill in minutes through overdose ? Cigarettes are bad but they’re not an immediate concern. And if we’re so keen to keep dangerous drugs away from kids, why do we preserve and protect the black market that has no problem selling untested and unregulated products to anyone of any age ? It makes zero sense and as toxic as they are, Cigarettes should be the least of our concerns when it comes to drugs and children.

    205
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mick Dunne
    Favourite Mick Dunne
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:21 AM

    @Declan Doherty: so is cigarettes

    22
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tommy Roche
    Favourite Tommy Roche
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:54 AM

    @Declan Doherty: The same laws apply where alcohol is concerned. In fact I’ve never heard of a shop being banned from selling tobacco after being caught selling to minors, but know of at least 3 pubs locally that have been ordered to close for a number of weeks for serving underage people.

    42
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Pam
    Favourite Pam
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:05 AM

    No, but they should have to pay huge fines. If they’re banned where will elderly locals who smoke go to buy their cigarettes?

    99
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Contrary Mary
    Favourite Contrary Mary
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:14 AM

    @Pam: To another store, where they will buy other things. All the more reason to not sell to minors.

    123
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rob Hunt
    Favourite Rob Hunt
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 12:08 PM

    @Pam: I actually think incurring the wrath of the elderly locals would be at least as much of a deterrent as the financial impact of not being able to sell them. Win win.

    31
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Fiona Fitzgerald
    Favourite Fiona Fitzgerald
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 7:15 PM

    @Pam: I agree, I don’t see why local adults should be inconvenienced simply because aome staff member failed to ask someone completely different for ID.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Serge the llama
    Favourite Serge the llama
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:02 AM

    Heard one in the local shop the other day. Young lad asked for ID for scratch card. Well his mother came in roaring dogs abuse at the cashier for requesting ID when his 18. Why isn’t everyone asked for ID. Pointing at the long line of customers.

    Queues were building up. Everyone was looking because the customer was so loud and obnoxious. Poor cashier went bright red but didn’t back down refused to sell the scratch card and quoted the regulations in an extremely loud voice.

    Requiring a valid photo ID for anyone who is under 21. A physical driver’s license, passport or Garda age card, not the photo of one on a phone that could be photoshopped.

    On a side note most supermarkets ask for ID if someone looks under 25.

    101
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Seeking Truth
    Favourite Seeking Truth
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 1:18 PM

    @Serge the llama: I bought a bottle of something recently and they did not even blink an eye or ask for proof of age. A sign that I am well past that age cohort to be asked for ID LOL

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave O'Keeffe
    Favourite Dave O'Keeffe
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 5:21 PM

    @Serge the llama: I saw a boy in school uniform ask for cigarettes. He was asked for ID, he didn’t have it. He left and his mother came in roaring about being in a hurry and that it was disgraceful that the shop had asked him for ID and made her get out of her car!

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute DERRY1973
    Favourite DERRY1973
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:24 AM

    5 weeks off the cigarettes today, way too expensive a habit now, mind you I don’t know where all the money I saved went.

    72
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Padraic McDonagh
    Favourite Padraic McDonagh
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:33 AM

    @DERRY1973: food! Or it least in my case I replaced one bad habit with another.

    25
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Thomas Armstrong
    Favourite Thomas Armstrong
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 2:01 PM

    @DERRY1973: Hope y stay off them. I’m 4 years now but the test is if you like the pub the drink & the cig go hand in hand in the smoking area.

    13
    See 2 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute James Clifford
    Favourite James Clifford
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 6:10 PM

    @DERRY1973: congratulations and well done

    14
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Watchful Axe
    Favourite Watchful Axe
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:29 PM

    @DERRY1973: All the best, I used to take out the calculator app on the phone every so often and work out the money saved as a bit of a motivator.
    It also motivates when you look back and figure you’ve smoked the price of a new car over the years, no point starting on a second car.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Howard
    Favourite Mark Howard
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:20 AM

    Or in other words persecute (yes – persecute) shopkeepers for making the odd mistake instead of the parents of these brats who are roaming the streets causing trouble. How quickly people forget they were singing the praises of retailers during the lockdown. We’re a great country for blaming the wrong person

    90
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jo H
    Favourite Jo H
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:23 AM

    @Mark Howard: it is a big jump from a teen kid taking up/trying cigarette smoking to them being br*ts who are roaming the streets to cause trouble! Have all the people you know who smoke, or are ex smokers, been that type of person?? For the record, I don’t think shops should have a their licence suspended unless a repeat offender

    34
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute NoPlanetB
    Favourite NoPlanetB
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:09 AM

    The way this works is they find some lad who is 6’6″ with a beard who looks 30 but is actually a teenager. They get him to ask for cigarettes in a string of shops at a busy time and when the teenager working behind the counter fails to ask for an ID the shop is nabbed.
    It is a form of entrapment. The only safe approach for shopkeepers is to get the ID from everyone, including the 60 year old granny who smokes the Superkings.

    30
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dave O'Keeffe
    Favourite Dave O'Keeffe
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 5:19 PM

    @NoPlanetB: the very fact that he looks 30 would be a mitigating factor. I work in the industry, they aren’t trying to trick people. They’ll usually send in an older looking person but in their school uniform or an older person that looks far younger. There is room for a genuine mistake being made within the regulations

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute TomTraubert
    Favourite TomTraubert
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 11:00 AM

    So, Hayley is having us vote on her own offence/punishment combination?

    Another journal poll fail

    Remember Hayley’s ‘do you prefer rain or sun poll’

    I reckon we should have a poll asking should Hayley be allowed to make polls

    ;-)

    24
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Rob Hunt
    Favourite Rob Hunt
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 12:11 PM

    @TomTraubert: Even setting aside that this is a commercial site with an editorial team and a content marketing strategy, it’s a bit nasty having a go the individual author.

    16
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute TomTraubert
    Favourite TomTraubert
    Report
    Nov 9th 2021, 11:13 AM

    @Rob Hunt: dial it down a bit there Rob fgs.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mike Dunne
    Favourite Mike Dunne
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:28 AM

    I’ll carry on buying mine on the black market.

    23
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Tracktrack
    Favourite Tracktrack
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 12:43 PM

    @Mike Dunne: Very foolish idea. Not only is it breaking the law, but those cigarettes could be counterfeit, have mould or other contamination to make them even more deadly.

    18
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul Cunningham
    Favourite Paul Cunningham
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 4:00 PM

    @Tracktrack: Thats why its easier on smokers to just fly out of the country, bring back a carton or two and pocket the savings. Can you blame them doing that when the prices are so high the black market thrives?

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Liam Mc Meel
    Favourite Liam Mc Meel
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:52 AM

    I go to the shop on a regular basis for me da with a note asking for John player blue and a lighter as me da can’t walk very far

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John Mulligan
    Favourite John Mulligan
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:21 AM

    It’s a while since I heard such a ridiculous plan. Retailers should be fined €10,000 and possibly be also imprisoned for supplying a dangerous drug to children.
    A suspension is unbelievable for such a serious offence.

    29
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mark Howard
    Favourite Mark Howard
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:43 AM

    @John Mulligan: Sounds like you could do with a smoke yourself . . .

    75
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mick Dunne
    Favourite Mick Dunne
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:19 AM

    They should be banned for good

    24
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Ballybough Marcus
    Favourite Ballybough Marcus
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:09 AM

    Common sense says yes.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute JillyBean
    Favourite JillyBean
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:38 AM

    I think there should be an award as to which teenagers are most convicing. The award would be a packet of Benson’s finest

    11
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ed w
    Favourite ed w
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:38 AM

    banned from selling them to minors for a few days or cigarettes for a few days ?

    12
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Michael Carolan
    Favourite Michael Carolan
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 12:04 PM

    May be it’s about time the purchase of cigarettes should be as restrictive as possible…..e.g. available on prescription from a GP and only purchased from a pharmacy. In that way, the support and advise for giving them up is immediately available. But hey, it’s easy as a non smoker to say this.

    8
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Shawn Rahoon
    Favourite Shawn Rahoon
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 1:03 PM

    Many shops in US won’t sell cigs to customers of any age unless they have some form of ID.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute ChronicAnxiety
    Favourite ChronicAnxiety
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:43 AM

    These are drugs, treat them as if thay had been dealing grass.

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Declan Doherty
    Favourite Declan Doherty
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 9:49 AM

    @ChronicAnxiety: Why ? Weed is harmless when compared to cigarettes and alcohol. Alcohol can kill a child in minutes. Neither weed nor cigarettes are going to do them any harm in the short term. Why would you treat them all the same when the risk is radically different.

    33
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Willie Penwright
    Favourite Willie Penwright
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:50 AM

    @ChronicAnxiety: Dealing grass is a monopoly of the the crime lords and so is beyond the reach of this government.

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Willie Penwright
    Favourite Willie Penwright
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 10:48 AM

    Great idea, practical and it would work and so cannot be tried.

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Garreth Byrne
    Favourite Garreth Byrne
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 5:45 PM

    yes, no and don’t know do not amount to a sufficient number of possible responses. This online opinion poll has no scientific validity.

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mikey
    Favourite Mikey
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 12:36 PM

    No, what harm are they doing.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mick Curran
    Favourite Mick Curran
    Report
    Nov 8th 2021, 6:23 PM

    A few days???
    Permanent ban, followed by prosecution and stiff penalties.

    2
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds