Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
THIS IS A follow up to an article I placed on TheJournal.ie following the devastating news that our baby girl had a fatal foetal abnormality which would result in her dying in utero. In Ireland, your current ‘choice’ (and I use this word loosely) upon the receipt of such news is to:
(a) Continue with the pregnancy until the baby dies, or,
(b) Obtain a TFMR – a Termination for Medical Reasons.
After the TFMR, and while waiting for our baby to arrive from the hospital for burial, I published the article and, yes, I did read all of the comments. Some comments were plain cruel, I will address this later; some were unwarranted and hypocritical, I will come back to this also; and some people seemed to be confused as to what a TFMR was and likened it to an abortion. To those who were compassionate and kind, a heartfelt thank you to you for your support.
So, what is a TFMR and what happens?
First key point, a TFMR is not the abortion of an unwanted baby.
Our baby was very much wanted and very much planned, to the point that my husband flew back from a business trip abroad once I called him to tell him it was time… I know there are plenty of other couples who have had to do this. A few weeks later we were hugging and smiling when a pregnancy test confirmed that we were expecting. We scheduled an early scan as we had previously had a silent miscarriage and we were nervous. As the weeks went on and we heard our baby’s heart beating healthily and saw our baby grow, we started to relax and allow ourselves to believe that it was finally going to happen…we were going to have a baby.
We passed the 12 week mark and a full scan was planned at 13-and-a-half weeks. Blood was taken, our history of health was recorded and the last step was to see our gynecologist for a scan and make a plan for the rest of the pregnancy. I hopped onto the bed excitedly but somewhat apprehensively, as all couples going for scans can relate to. We never knew that we were about to face the worst experience of our lives.
Our baby had a 10mm hygroma behind her little head and a larger scan showed fluid in all of her organs; her heart, her kidneys and her little belly. We couldn’t believe it. Everything was going great a few weeks ago. We still didn’t understand the full extent of the problem, her heart was beating after all, wasn’t it? However, her condition was so severe with hydrops fetalis, that the doctors were almost certain that a chromosomal defect was the cause. Chorionic villus sampling (CVS) was performed with our consent and samples were sent for chromosomal analysis to Glasgow and Crumlin Hospital. The results confirmed all of our fears. We would never be taking our baby home. She was going to die before her due date. Her heart was beating, she was a little fighter, but she was fighting a losing battle.
The Rotunda were very sympathetic and hugely supportive and informed us of our options. In relation to option (a) waiting for nature to take its course, I was told that this would happen around the late 20, maybe early 30 weeks of pregnancy. I was at 14 weeks by the time the diagnosis was confirmed. After a week of tears and deliberations, my husband and I chose option (b). The only problem was that, although this is explained to you as an option or a ‘choice’, the procedure is not permitted to be performed in Ireland. It is illegal.
To avail of a TFMR, you have to travel with what strength you have left to another country in Europe where this procedure is performed and provided for by the State, following an ethical review in the maternity section of a hospital. This is the second key point, a TFMR is a medical procedure, performed in the maternity section of hospitals in other European countries following an ethical review and approval by two gynaecologists.
However, even though Ireland is outsourcing this medical procedure, it does not compensate couples travelling from Ireland who have had to pay for this procedure elsewhere in Europe. You have to arrange the costs for the operation, flights and accommodation yourself. It’s €2,000 for the procedure alone. For people who can’t afford this, they have to take out a loan or they may be forced to continue with the pregnancy.
Unfortunately for us and other couples who also received this devastating news the same week, Liverpool hospital, which was the option of choice as they have helped many couples from Ireland, were unable to perform the procedure. They were busy for the next few weeks. We went into a state of shock and panic. What were we going to do? It wasn’t fair, it didn’t make sense that this procedure couldn’t be done in our own country.
One thing was clear… it’s just not clear! Is Ireland saying that you can’t terminate for medical reasons or is Ireland saying, ‘well you can terminate for medical reasons, we’re just not going to do it for you but we’ll allow our medical staff to tell you where you can get it done’? Should I feel grateful that I have the permission to travel and that I don’t have to fear arrest? Is this Ireland’s answer to avoiding political pressure from the rest of Europe? ‘The women get to travel and we don’t even have to pay for the procedure, ha ha, problem solved! We save face and money!’ Someone must have received a bonus for that decision. Well, why should hospitals in the UK or any other country have to staff up to support Irish women because the Irish government won’t? Is this Irish pride or Irish shame?
We sought help with a hospital in Vienna. The diagnosis was sent from the Rotunda and was reviewed by two gynaecologists before we arrived in Vienna. We spoke with the gynaecologist on the phone before leaving Ireland and the severity of the condition was acknowledged. In principal the procedure was agreed to be performed following a scan in Vienna; the scan was performed by the gynaecologist in the maternity section of the hospital.
I was scanned by the same gynaecologist that scanned other girls in the waiting room with us. The only difference was they were all couples who expected to be taking their babies home on their due date and we were there to confirm that we weren’t. The gynaecologist was very kind and he spoke to me in English while he scanned our baby and confirmed everything the Rotunda had told us; our baby was going to die inside me.
The process was agreed and I was given two tablets to start the process. We thanked the doctor and left. I wept outside at the knowledge that the process was starting and there was no going back, but my husband and I were steadfast that this was the right thing to do. It had been two weeks since our scan in the Rotunda; we had had plenty of time to change our minds.
We came back to the hospital at 8am the following morning. We met the midwife who was wonderful. She told me that it was a terrible situation to be in, not to mention that we had to travel and that I should cry when I needed to, they were there to support me. ‘But Ireland is in the EU!?’… this was a frustrated phrase we heard a lot from medical staff over these few days. I was given two tablets and I was to receive two more at 11am and 2pm. At 2pm the contractions really began to kick off and we were made comfortable in a delivery room.
My husband was given instructions to count while I was to breathe deeply. The pain was like nothing I was prepared for and for two hours my husband counted, gave me sips of water and talked to me. I was in such pain that I couldn’t respond to his attempts to make me feel better nor his suggestions of things to do afterwards, ‘Shall we go shopping when all of this is over?’. I felt so bad for him feeling helpless but I couldn’t get any words out. His second suggestion that we go climb up a mountain nearly cost him his life and he got a response to that he’ll never forget, but we laugh about it now.
Suddenly I felt a stillness come over me, like a quiet after a storm. I felt a need to pee and my husband went to call the midwife. She asked if I would take a bed pan, some women wouldn’t apparently, ‘something to do with dignity’ she said and smiled while she shrugged her shoulders. I smiled at the idea that at this point you would be choosy, that after what we had been through you would have any dignity left. My husband helped me while the midwife stood outside.
I then felt the strangest sensation and I put my hand down, I could feel our baby arriving, and then she was there, lying in my hand. It was just me and my husband together and his arms around me when our little daughter arrived into the world. There was such a quietness in the room, it was the most perfect and saddest moment of my life but I felt such peace looking at her. My husband and I smiled at each other with tears knowing it was just the three of us, alone in the world for a little while.
She looked so perfect, apart from her swollen belly and a large flap of skin behind her neck from the hygroma. I was overwhelmed by how beautiful she was, she had such long fingers and toes, she looked so elegant. I’ll remember her loveliness for the rest of my life. I couldn’t believe that inside she was essentially broken and had no chance of survival. It seemed so cruel of nature to allow this to happen, to allow a baby to develop for months only to die in utero or shortly after birth. We named her Butterfly.
The midwife came in and helped us. She took our baby away to clean her and measure her and brought her back to us to hold her for a while longer. We were to call her when we were ready to give her back to them. She gave us a remembrance card with our baby’s footprint and handprints which is really comforting to have to look at now.
I was brought to theatre later that evening for a curettage. My husband was there smiling at me when I opened my eyes after theatre. His parents were waiting in the corridor as my bed was wheeled back to my room. The following day I was discharged after being seen by the doctor and the nurse and given the necessary medication and advice for the follow-up.
They told me to come back to them for my next pregnancy and they would look after me. I assured them how wonderful the staff in the Rotunda were and explained to them that their hands are tied, that it is the people in government who are to blame. I showed them the beautiful knitted blanket and garments that Friends of the Rotunda had provided. I told them that the Rotunda were there to support us when we returned to Ireland. We left the hospital but I cried at the thought that my baby was still there and we had to wait for her to be received by the funeral home in my husband’s home town.
Third key point: a TFMR baby is delivered in the maternity section of a hospital and the parents get to hold their baby.
My parents flew over two days later and both sets of parents were there to help us get through the grief. We made the funeral arrangements but we declined the coffins available as they were too sterile looking and I wanted something pretty. We had imagined bringing our baby home to sleep in a wicker basket and we cried with disbelief as we set about the process of making a wicker coffin for her. We secured butterflies and flowers to it, we wanted her to have her own little nursery garden, pretty enough for a butterfly.
The morning of the funeral the sun was shining and the birds were singing. I burst into tears at the thought that our baby would never hear that wonderful sound. Still, I felt strangely happy; the sunshine and the birds made me think of hope. I hoped for a healthy future for myself and my husband. I hoped that our baby was with God, where angel babies belong. We had downloaded the song from Karen Taylor ‘Precious Child’ for the funeral and I started to sing it in my mind for comfort.
We buried our daughter with her great-grandparents, in a lovely quiet cemetery in the grounds of the local church in my husband’s hometown in Austria. The scenery is wonderful there. We were surrounded by snow capped mountains as the ski season came to an end and spring was in bloom. ‘Precious Child’ played as the blessing was given and myself and my husband both lifted her little nursery garden into the ground where she would forever lie. A holy water font was by the grave and we blessed our baby and then both of our parents did the same.
Our mothers gave offerings, flowers with a beautiful purple butterfly and a beautiful statue of a baby enclosed in angels wings. We cried by the grave, our hearts torn that her grave would be in Austria while we lived in Ireland. Before we left Austria a few days later, my mother-in-law hugged us and promised to go to the grave often to tell her that her parents love her and that we are always thinking of her.
Above is a picture I asked my father-in-law to take as I thought of the people who didn’t understand or likened our experience to an abortion, so that we could at least educate those that don’t fully understand the fourth key point; that as an Irish citizen, if you are lucky – and I say that with all the irony in the world – you get to bury your baby delivered by TFMR.
It’s hard to imagine we are lucky when we have to travel to Austria to visit our daughter’s grave but we know others have had to wait for ashes in the post or smuggle their baby home on the ferry in the boot of the car. Some, due to finances, cannot afford any of these options. There are so many stories sadder than ours.
This is the hardest part of the whole process. Not the fatal diagnosis, that is nobody’s fault. But the trauma added to that situation by the State’s deliberate lack of support? That is somebody’s fault and they should be ashamed for it.
There are people who accused TheJournal.ie of fabricating this story and in turn insulted me, my husband, my daughter and my family. That was cruel of you. This story is very real for us and your words cannot hurt us any more than we have already been.
For any man who made cruel comments: you will never carry a child and you will never have to deliver a child that is sleeping only in Gods arm’s, who, with all the will and medical help in the world, will never wake up. You will never know what it is to know that you will not hear her cry when she enters the world. To know that you will never see her eyes open to see you for the first time. You will never know what it is to have all your hopes and dreams for your child fly away with her, as you hold her and pray that there really is a heaven and that angels have come to take her to be with all the other angel babies, because thinking anything else just hurts too much.
There are people who said that we had the choice to continue with the pregnancy. My father is a very religious man and he was very quietly upset when he first heard our bad news and he didn’t say much for a while until he understood all the facts. He then said to myself and my husband that it a noble thing for any parent to choose to end the suffering of their child.
Mr Kenny, my question to you is: ‘what would you say to your daughter if she was in this situation? Where her option was to continue with the pregnancy until your grandchild died inside her or to end the pain earlier, which under your rules would mean she would have to leave her country? Would you look into her face and tell her that the child merely has a “hole in its heart” (a medically treatable condition), even though the qualified medical staff had told her otherwise?’
For those who do decide to continue with the pregnancy, I have the utmost respect for your decision and I would not impose my decision on you, so I can only ask that you respect the decision made by us and others. I have read your stories and they are as heartbreaking as ours. We were provided with both options and neither choice is the obvious one and we deliberated over both extensively. We are only in this situation because we decided to have a baby, and neither decision will give us that result.
To end the pregnancy or to continue, in the end the outcome is the same for all of us. We recognise your pain, it is the same as ours, we have just decided to face it sooner than you. We all make what we believe is the best choice for our baby – that should be our right. The difference is that you really had a choice that is supported by your country. We didn’t, but I would never campaign for you not to have your choice.
Can you imagine if for medical/compassionate reasons you were told you had to terminate the pregnancy when you didn’t want to? Can you imagine if the option that you wanted was not available to you in your country and you had to travel abroad for it? You might think this is a ludicrous scenario but the whole thing is ludicrous. It’s ludicrous that we are in this situation at all, that nature has been cruel to us and not made our babies healthy. What we are asking for is the right to have a choice.
I have read comments implying misdiagnosis. We would have given anything for a glimpse of hope for our baby. We were scanned in a private clinic. The problem was confirmed in the foetal section of the Rotunda, test results confirmed the result and finally the maternity hospital in Vienna confirmed her fate: fatal. We were very sure of the outcome before we made our decision.
Do people campaign against families who are faced with the heartbreaking decision to turn off the life support machine of a loved one? In these cases the woman is supporting the life of the baby, and the baby is not compatible with life outside the womb. We are asking for the right to turn off the support and to stop the suffering and to do this in our own country with continuation of medical care, our families around us, and a grave to visit.
The Irish government is turning its back on couples in these circumstances and outsourcing this activity to other hospitals in Europe. This fact should be printed every day, in every newspaper, until the government decides to listen to the people. A democratic government should lead on behalf of the voice of the many – not through a set of rules dictated from within the government based on the personal opinions of a few.
Every week more women travel quietly to hospitals in Europe, with what power is left in them, to ask for compassion for their broken baby and they travel home broken-hearted while their baby lies in a hospital in another country. What do we consider a good ending here? We got to bury our baby but she lies in a grave in Austria where we have to go to visit her. Is being ‘lucky’ receiving your baby’s ashes in the post? Is ‘lucky’ being able to sneak your baby home on the ferry in a coffin in the boot of your car?
We’ve done this so obediently, almost submissively, but there is a whole population of women and men in this country that are broken inside because of the way this government has treated them.
Please ask for this process to be legislated for (properly) in Ireland and STOP the outsourcing of TFMR. Please email/tweet/Facebook this article to your friends and make others aware that the Irish government is outsourcing this procedure to mainland Europe at a huge cost to impacted parents.
The author of this article wishes to remain anonymous.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
PEOPLE POWER! Well done to all in Oughterard, just goes to show what can be achieved by standing up to bully boy government tactics.
@Martin M: Shame on all involved. Oughterard hang your head in shame
@Shane Freeney: Yesterday figures revealed homelessness has toppes 10,000 people, with some working on the ground suggesting the real figure is closer to 14,000. It’s the government that should hang their heads in shame, not us.
@Martin M: That’s not an excuse its a different issue. I don’t know many homeless that were living in the middle of a war.
@Shane Freeney: asylum centres in old hotels are the modern day mother and baby homes, more housing is key to none military like caging of refugees, people who see these buildings as the best way are to me racist and fascist. Sham on you.
@Shane Freeney: Well they’re actually intrinsically linked as you’d expect our government to prioritise the plight of Irish citizens first. Also, these are not Syrian refugees fleeing conflict, they are of African decent. They are not fleeing persecution, in fact if you done some research you would be shocked to discover many hail from holiday resorts that are frequented by westerners.
@Shane Freeney: A very large amount of the people protesting were the “rent a mob” ultra right wingers, not actually connected to Oughterard at all.
@Shane Freeney: Are you for Direct Provision Centres? It appears you are..
Would you not offer to take an asylum seeker or 2 into your home? Because you sound so compassionate and like such a good humanitarian.
@Do the Bort man: how does a person go about renting them?
@Anorack Jack: You might be surprised what I do and have done
@Do the Bort man: Do you really belive that?
People really are affected by what those mad communists put out there.
Didn’t think people were that gullible.
@Shane Freeney: they aren’t seeking refuge from wars. There’s definitely a very small percentage of refugees who are.. But the fact of the matter is, the overwhelming majority are chancers and economic migrants.
@Do the Bort man: how do you know that? Were you on the picket line?
@Chonky Racoon: They They They….. These are people the very same as us….
@Martin M: spot on, another great day for the racists
@Shane Freeney: You take them , start a petition , to get them in to your area . I sign it.
@Chris Mc: You know you can apply to dept to hour an asylum seeker I’m your own home.
@Anorack Jack: Would you not offer yourself to take some in?
And yes I’ve offered before you start on that one.
@Chonky Racoon: Any references to back up the claims you just made?
@Shane Freeney: And yet there are many peaceful countries between ireland and there. Why risk their lives traveling so far? Honest question.
@Gazza Lazza: Oh I already did that, saved her from poverty, she robbed me blind and fleeced the place. Tried reporting it to the GardaÍ but they didn’t want to get involved even though it was an illegal immigrant.
I could’ve got myself into trouble for harbouring an Alien!
Racism doesn’t come in to these issues, people need to be vetted and processed much quicker and then the chancers and thieves of which there are many should be booted out instantly when found out but instead we have the do gooder lefty libs who put the genuine asylum seekers at risk and to the back of the Q because of the opportunists.
Get real and stop generalising when it comes to the true importance of this issue.
@Martin M: Not asylum seekers fault that there’s homelessness. That’s squarely on FF and FG
@Martin M: You’re spreading lies without proof. You have no idea where these people were coming from.
@Anorack Jack: This is the most idiotic argument and people keep falling for it. Do you live in the Connemara Gateway hotel ‘Jack’? do you? Is somebody trying to put asylum seekers in your air BNB?
@Martin M: Hi Martin. Can you please tell me how you know who was going to be placed in Oughterard and how you know they were “of African descent”; and also, what does being “of African descent” have to do with anything?
@Do the Bort man:
Ultra Right Wingers?
Where’s your facts and how could you know intimately their political leanings?
It seems like you’re making this land the ultra leftie lib wingers agenda that are making more of a political football out of this issue than those that you accuse.
@Jessie Ginger: Do you agree with Direct Provision Centres? Sounds like a conflict of interest here.
@Shane Freeney: we are not talking of refugees being taken from Syrian camps – if we were, the government would be quick to tell us.
While conditions in much of the world are indeed grim, it is beyond the capacity of European countries to offer alternative homes when we can’t even provide for our own working population.
@Anorack Jack: Of course i don’t and i’m not stupid enough to conflate the issues. the protest was not about DP – it was about ‘DP in Oughterard’.
Ye all quickly changed the rhetoric when you realised the backlash against the racist comments… none of you care a single iota about where those human beings will live now that they wont be living in Oughterard.
@Jessie Ginger: You’re Generalising and making sweeping judgements about people you know nothing about, that ironically in itself is a prejudice, the kind of bad principle you must disagree with yet demonstrate, it’s quite a double standard don’t you think?
@Martin M:
Exactly. Well done, their town, their choice.
@Martin M: What power? They will symply be placed somewhere else, in much better conditions, at people’s expense. For example lot of them currently live in Clayton Hotel close to Dublin airport and none of them would prefer to change it for Oughterard.
@Shane Freeney: rubbish, there is always one
@Shane Freeney: This is pure and simple a failed hotel operation trying to fill it’s rooms, regardless of who the occupants were, where they came from or under what conditions they had to endure.
Hotels are not suitable accomodation on long term for anyone.
@Shane Freeney: On all even the kids who stood with their parents . Maybe shame on you and your little FG rant.
@Shane Freeney: Ask any one in north dublin or Clondalkin , plenty of war here .
@Martin M: Really you bloody black hearted Racist
@Shane Freeney: do your research then judges
@Gazza Lazza: 3673 applications in 2018. 2090 rejected.
@Shane Freeney: thankfully clowns like you are outweighed by us. Stay living in your city. The country is ruined from idiots like you. Get a job ya do gooder
@Martin M: Now there’s an idea shift some of the homeless to Oughterard – Will they be all right lads!
@Martin M: Ah Martin Is that because they are black – Shame on you!
@Galwaygogo: they’re asylum seekers not citizens you plank, they’re not due housing. This is a completely different issue to the housing crisis.
@Martin M: your grammer is shocking ,and your so called facts are out of the hole on your backside
@Shane Freeney: What war ? , no one know were there from as they never arrived. They could be from Albania , South Africa , Gambia . Your Hysterics is pretty embarrassing for an adult Have you ever served in a war zone ? . I have .
@Martin M: Indeed, the amount of spinning going on from the government is shameful. Desperately trying to make those people out to be unreasonable racists. What they’re leaving out is that these hotels are mostly owned by people who have family or friends in the dail, and that they stand to make millions off letting a provision centre in.
Congratulations to all involved, sadly this project will just move onto the next underutilsed tiger build. Stay vigilant people you don’t have to have this misguided EU policy forced upon you.
@Mick Byrne: everyone involved is disgusting
@Jessie Ginger: You condemn everyone involved as “disgusting” yet you consider yourself a compassionate humanitarian?
Your good citizen principles appear to be at loggerheads with other those other humans who express a different view to yours so your own opinions actually happen to be a bit of an oxymoron.
@Anorack Jack: I have zero issue with calling racists disgusting… i’m fine with that and don’t have to explain myself to you or anyone else like you.
@Jessie Ginger: Your own self righteous views appear to be prejudiced, you are accusing someone or some people of something that they have not broken the law for, have any been charged with racism? let alone convicted, your own allegations are defamatory which it’s self is an offence, if you’re going to accuse and finger point from your high moral PC horse take a look at your own virtuous good self first.
@Anorack Jack: Very well said.
@Jessie Ginger: hahahahaha another clown we have here. Thank heavens looneys like yourself are greatly out numbered
Great! A victory for direct democracy. A defeat for the people-dumping money scam known as direct provision.
Amazing how the Left Wing Liberals spew on here. Facts ~ Ireland can’t take in anymore immigrants. We are already on our knees, Brexit is coming, Health system in tatters, Agriculture . Homelessness [genuine] worst ever… It is easy to call people Bigots but Ireland has taken in more than enough and the Boat is sinking, to the brim.
INTERESTING how the left wing politicians and those who bleat about Rascism live in houses that are not anywhere near these immigant centres, nor do they have any idea what it is like to live in an area where 1 in 6 is Irish. Get real !
@Rosie: Genunine question….can you point me to a town in Ireland where there is 1 Irish person in every 6, please. I’d appreciate statistics and evidence that can be back up. Thanks.
@Rosie: Well said Rosie, the leftie loons don’t like dealing in facts though. Instead they shout you down as being racist.
@Martin M: Can I have those facts and statistics please….the reference to 1 person being Irish in every 6 is something that could be backed up by stats if true Id imagine. Thanks!
@Charlie B: YES, where I live we have had a large influx of immigrants, I am not anti-Muslim, Anti-anyone, I am saying we cannot afford to put more people on a sinking ship. WE have done more than our bit.
I can only conclude you are one of the people I mentioned in my previous post when you have to ask that question. There are 5 mosques within a small radius of where I live. I get on well with all immigrants but am not blind to the fact that I am often the only Irish person on a Luas carriage, that being in hospital 4 times this year, and with staff shortages, I got deadly infections. I note econimic migrants driving cars daily on my main road in burkas , [dangerous], There are now more immigrants where I live t han Irish people, and they are having baby after baby…. Call me a Bigot ~ nope I have good relations with same. It is the Govt. I blame, the boat is sinking and the fact u had to ask me that question shows you are naive, and live in an area wealthy enough not to have been affected .
@Rosie: how many has Ireland taken in? Please enlighten all with this figure . What is this weight that is causing us to sink? Your 1 in 6 comment I’m sure is true.. However maybe in a London suburb, maybe in a Sydney or new York neighbourhood but not in Ireland.. Or maybe you can also enlighten us as to that location you bluster about?
@Rosie: I only asked for stats and facts…..you assume I’m” one of those people”…..Kinda says more about you than anything…Thanks for your response… you are entitled to think and believe what you want. Im not naive….looking for facts and stats proves that…but thanks….you’ve mugged yourself right off here Rosie
@Rosie: that is the biggest load of horseshit I’ve ever read. Considering there’s only 10 mosques in Ireland and two are in Galway and the other two are in the northeast you must live in Dublin. Is 6 mosques too much for a city of almost 2 million?
“I get on well with all immigrants but am not blind to the fact that I am often the only Irish person on a Luas carriage.” – do you profile everyone you meet in day-to-day life? Why don’t you put the headphones in, Kindle on and mind your own business like everyone else?
“being in hospital 4 times this year, and with staff shortages, I got deadly infections” – you’re still alive. Be thankful. And staff shortages have nothing to do with infections like MRSA, it’s your generation that have serious antibiotic immunity.
“I note econimic [sic.] migrants driving cars daily on my main road in burkas , [dangerous]” How do you know they’re economic migrants. And how do you know they’re dangerous driving?
“There are now more immigrants where I live t han Irish people, and they are having baby after baby” – lies
“the boat is sinking and the fact u had to ask me that question shows you are naive, and live in an area wealthy enough not to have been affected” – I live in the poorest postcode in Ireland.
@Rosie: Rosie nothing against immigrants just not in Ireland
@Rosie: That’s hilarious. There’s no such town in Ireland. How did you come to that conclusion? Maybe you looked in a cafe in a town your were passing through and saw 6 customer and only 1 had white skin?
@Rosie: How many of the nurses and doctors that treated you weren’t Irish. Did you refuse treatment from the non Irish? You very much of “I’m not racist as long as they don’t live in my town, go to my school or get treated in my hospital”
@Martin M: Stead on there Martin. I always vote left and yet I am totally opposed to these direct provision centre scams for reasons of undermining the local labour market to integration and assimilation concerns. This is not a right versus left issue and I think it is divisive enough without throwing petrol on it.
@Charlie B: Tyrellstown near Blanchardstown . Balbriggan also. Many parts of Ashbourne
@stephen darling: Thanks Stephen,again I’m just looking for stats and facts to back up these claims, and none have been provided…..I live beside Blanch….its a mixed race community for sure but in no way, shape or form is there only 1 Irish person in every 6. I think any intelligent person can admit Rosie has had a ‘mare here, regardless of your view on this issue.
@Rosie: I’ve never read such crap in my life. You’re full of lies and you sound like an absolutely disgusting person. I’m much rather an immigrant than someone like you any day.
@Rosie: Well said Rosie, I’ve heard the far left loonies be selective about who should get preference when seeking asylum, I never heard them calling to take in the Yazidis from the Sinjar mountain during the genocide there in 2014 by Islamic psychopaths.
it’s always healthy looking Muslims they want ‘saving’ for the optics but the likes of the Coptic Christians in Egypt can be burnt out of their homes and go to hell for all they care.
it’s a political agenda with that lot not a humanitarian one, they’re all just mouthpiece virtue signallers.
@Anorack Jack: WELL SAID ROSIE!!!!I JUST FOUND A HISTORY BOOK TO VIRTUE SIGNAL WHILE ACCUSING OTHERS OF THE SAME THING!!!!!! Bore off Jack, go back to Mattress Mick in your taxi you melt.
@Rosie: Wow!
You’ve a great imagination, Rosie, and a great future as a fiction writer!
@stephen darling: Some statistics on Balbriggan. Population 2002 – 10,294. Population 2006 – 15,559. Population 2016 census – 24,611 of whom 28% are non nationals. The 28% does not include those children who were born to non nationals and as such are Irish citizens. Balbriggan is a multicultural town and has residents not alone from the EU but also countries all over the world. Granted many former residents of Mosney Camp have been relocated to Balbriggan and this could explain the high percentage of non nationals.
@Rosie: on it’s knees because of people voting repeatedly for the same… FG FF and the likes of Noel Grealish
I have lived near DP centres BTW and there were zero issues.And yes i’m still bleating about racism because that’s what this is.
@James Gannon: Pop on a night train in Balbrigian some time . Count them.
@James Gannon: take a wander around ikea any weekend you will find it difficult to hear an irish accent…
@Martin M: the word racist is so out of date. Reality bites
@Martin M: Martin how many coloured people walked with you in protest at Direct Provision in Oughterard, or were you too busy trying to keep them out!
@Martin M: and your a FAT racist!
@Eamonn O Connell: We are a nation of immigrants!
@James Gannon: your living in a little bubble obviously.
@Darren B: I know exactly what you mean. People living in ivory towers don’t have a clue
@Charlie B: ballyhaunis
The fact the government made direct provision exempt from the planning permission in 2015 tells you all you need to know about the viability of these projects.
Normally a project like this will only be granted planning permission if it has adequate local services and amenities for the people who will be in it and the locals already there. This centre and many like it fail on every single item. Not only that but they removed the ability for the locals to object through the planning permission process which is crazy as we are supposed to live in a democracy.
@Adam O’hEidhin: Sure the building is there already why would you need Planning Permission. Change of use would hardly apply!
@Grainnewhale: It is being used to house assylum seekers that are completely dependant on public services and the Irish tax payer. A holiday maker would bring money and jobs into the area. That’s quite a drastic change in use if you ask me. As they say don’t ruin a good story with the truth! Big wake up call for the looney left today. Irish people are awake.
Fantastic news, well done to all in Oughterard.
FFG need please their head patters in Brussels.
The whole issue will secretly be moved elsewhere quietly. Greece moving people out. Leo and co , the big boys moving them in. FFG care less for issues outside the pale.
The government are in place to listen to the people not as FF FG do imposing their PC ideology in small towns and villages throughout the country to appease Merkel and Company who laugh at us while our country and culture is being destroyed .
Through their dignified protest and silent march the people of Oughterard have highlighted the inhumane Direct Provision system introduced as a sticking plaster but still in place two decades later, in so doing they have resisted the attempted hijacking of the campaign by the hateful hard left and the untrue slurs of the equally hateful hard left, who will now have to take their battles elsewhere,
I live not too far from Mosney and have experienced asylum seekers.Generally,they have a bad name and are considered spongers.
@Aidan Mccullough: So there are no Irish spongers.
Another blatant obvious lesson the DoJ and government should learn from , what are the chances though or will they just look for another unsuitable local and try and sneak it in without consideration for the consequences for the locals.
I am all for a proper asylum seekers system but currently it’s a mess
The Government shouldn’t be “disappointed”. This is called democracy. They (the Government) should learn to respect it. We do not live in a command economy or authoritarian state.
Wacist! Bigot! Islamophobe! Straight from the trendy lefty play book. Shout out names rather than engage. People don’t like being played for fools.
Absolutely disgraceful, why are the government giving into these far right xenophobic whack jobs. Especially after the Irish Times and multiple independent sources exposed a certain group of people from gaslighting this entire situation at a town hall meeting in Oughterard where a TD was recorded spewing a hateful anti immigration rhetoric, granted the local community had concerns but it was completely over run by the anti immigration far right. This toxic attitude toward immigration needs to change.
@Peej: ah yes the Irish Times article that did nothing to address the locals concerns, it just implied under a thin layer of contempt that they were simple locals being misled by far right boogeymen.
You’re another man with nothing to contribute, just labels for locals.
@Peej: You are easily upset. You should put more of your energy into forcing our government to provide more adequate facilities for those people instead of just dumping them onto Irish towns and villages and let them deal with it.
Its time you and your peers cop the feck on and grew up.
@Peej: I agree with you about the hijacking of the cause by right wing elements, but this is a good result, the town is not a suitable location in any way. Shoving asylum seekers into rural towns with poor infrastructure is not helpful for anyone.
@Rocky Loveridge: it’s a fact that they were misled by the people that hijacked their townhall meeting. If they weren’t misled by the “far right boogeymen” as you say, then why was the entire campaign ran by a very well known far right racist. (not going to use names here because we all know they love an opportunity to scream defamation). Why were there people at the townhall meeting that don’t live in the town let alone have any connection to it only to spread falsities about the people that would be housed in the direct provision centre? Where did the money come from for the big professionally printed banners, t-shirts, placards, flyers? Not just the Irish times that highlights this but people that had actually attended the meeting where a certain TD was recorded giving a racist speech.
@Peej: No resources, no plan and no access to jobs. Social problem nuke bomb in the making.
Politicians made direct provision centres exempt from planning permission / public consultation in 2015 as anyone with half a brain knows a town like this in the west of ireland doesnt have resources to support their own let alone a large group of war victims. But there is big money in these centers so they just try to steamroll the locals and try and build it on the sly.
Well done to these people who stood up to corrupt Fianna Fail Fianna Gael trying to make a quick buck a the expense of not just the people of Galway but the war victims as well.
@Peej: ok pal. On what aspects were they misled? Did the dastardly far right manage to convince the poor native savage in Oughterard that they do actually have enough doctors, schools and local amenities.
Your hatred for these people are their legitimate concerns only strengthens their resolve. Well done to all the locals for remaining firm
@Rocky Loveridge: His hatred for anything and everything outside of “tree hugging activities” is pretty alarming in my opinion. Basic cop on and understanding the local issues with such facilities seems beyond some people.
@Peej: Your comment is ignorant and baseless.
@David Corrigan: Basic cop on and understanding is something the average liberal doesn’t possess these days. No understanding of basic facts and figures. But a great selection of words to describe people who have facts and figures – ‘racist’ ‘bigot’ xenofobe’ etc…the looney left thing is really getting old now.
@Peej: Virtue Signaller, take in a Family in need if you’re such a good citizen yourself.
@Adam O’hEidhin: Spot on.
@Adam O’hEidhin: They really do get on my nerves at this stage. I am all for fair play and helping people but I get sick to the back teeth of listening to brats who are “outraged” at everything. I suspect the most of them don’t even understand what they are outraged at!
@Peej: A whole town is far right , the town’s that accepted them must be far left . With your logic.
@Rocky Loveridge: locals ‘concerns’ were xenophobic… nothing the government can do about the nasty opinions ye hold
@Jessie Ginger: you’re some knob.
@Peej: Xenophobic, racist, bigot, far left, facist, all words straight from the PC Manual. Would it be possible for you to compose a sentence without using them? I doubt it.
@Peej: Oh well, if it’s in the Irish Times, it must be true!
There is only one group of people to blame here, our current government. The idea of dumping vulnerable people in rural hotels, with no plans to integrate them into the local community is just idiotic. Of course the locals were going to have many questions when there was talks of a direct provision centre being opened, however their questions were met with silence by the elected TDs, but they were given fearful answers from right wing groups. You can copy and paste what has happened in Oughterard to Rooskey in Leitrim, Bray in Wicklow, and probably more towns and villages in the future. If Oughterard was to have taken in 5 families, with a clear plan as to how they would have been integrated/educated and accommodated, and that plan communicated to the local community, I don’t believe there would have been a problem.
The system of direct provision is a shameful way of washing our hands of the refugee problem by hiding them away in rural areas. What happened to the direct provision center they proposed for Ballsbridge? The locals protested and the plan was scrubbed. Are the residents of Ballsbridge a bunch of far right racists? According to the standards of ignorant leftists in this country, they are.
The people of Oughterard were dead right to protest this center. Fair play to them.
Former and current refugees living in this area of the country have been at pains to praise the area and say how welcome they feel. I think they would know better then most people commenting here.
It’s up to the government to come up with a more humane way of treating refugees. Direct Provision is a failed policy.
I imagine alot of the lefties on here would feel very different if they were told a direct provision centre was opening near them!
People have had enough of being bullied .
I wonder how many attendees of that civic action will turn their attention to put a round the clock pressure on the Gov to house homeless in that abounded hotel?? I predict ZERO !
@Shem: ZERO
@Shem: You do stupid well.
The best thing you can say is at least they didn’t try and burn it down this time.
@Keith O’Reilly: Best t Bing you can say is , a whole town stood together.
You should be very proud of yourselves from now on it will be drive through that town no stop
@Kevin Fahey: Watch your speed.
@Kevin Fahey: Agreed. I will not be going to the pub owned by one of the organisers any more… shame on him
@Jessie Ginger: I’m sure they’re really worried about that.
@Jessie Ginger: they’ll really miss your business
@Kevin Fahey: All inbred!
Can anyone tell me, why does the government have to keep trying to get these provision centre open, when all it causing is problems for the local people, why not put try putting 1 family of asylum seekers in different towns all around the country, would be a lot easier with less back lash from the community.
Shameful bigots. They’d prepare an empty town with a few whites then a thriving town.
@Darren B: genuine question Darren, what are all the people that would of been placed in the hotel going to do down there?? Is there work for them?? Is there schools for children?? By the way I think we should take in immigrants, but the town of Oughterard from what I can see is in the middle of nowhere with the nearest city almost 30km away. Does it not seem a bit strange to put them in a place where they will have literally nothing to do but wander around all day in boredom?? That can’t be good for them or the town,, would you agree with that??
@Darren B: you’ve done a fair bit of looking down your nose at others on here Darren.
@Devilsavocado: so should the town be vacated if it’s that bad then? There’s no reasoning with you people at all!
@Devilsavocado: Agree. A good outcome resulting from some genuinely concerned locals and some genuinely awful bigots. It’s a pity that most of the discourse arising from this will more likely be hateful fear mongering than how we can better accommodate vulnerable immigrants in a way that can work with local communities instead of putting more pressure on them.
@Darren B: You people???? What the hell is that supposed to mean? You say you are a proud liberal, but you don’t seem to give a damn about the people of oughterads concerns. You just prefer to label them with vile terms like bigots, racists, or xenophobes. The town seems to be big enough to support its tiny population, I’m wondering how many that were born there have had to leave and live outside their birth place just to seek decent employment. People like you give liberals a bad name, to hell with anyone who has a different opinion to yours,, you say people should be ashamed, I say you should look in the mirror…
@Darren B: Dig deeper into it Darren, this was never about the government helping out the immigrants, or was it to the benefit of Oughterard, it was just a box ticking exercise for the government to take in X number of immigrants. What town/village’s local services can handle a 30% population increase overnight? Where would their kids go to school? Would the heath care facilities in the area be improved? What job opportunities would the immigrants have, and how would they be integrated? None of these questions were actually answered by the government, the right wing nuts answered it for the locals, and filled them with fear. If the government actually had a plan in place, then they would have addressed the locals genuine concerns, however its clear they didn’t actually have a plan at all, and the chances are that the hotel would have become a glorified ghetto, which would have been a disaster for everyone involved.
@Darren B: How is that white hate working out for you ?.
@Darren B: It’s ‘prefer’ and you are an outrage junkie. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that Direct Provision is a failed policy and is actually inhumane to those caught in it’s net.
Adding 250 people with no right to work to a small remote town of 1500 is ludicrous.
@Darren B: White Shaming? You must be embarrassed to be one yourself poor Snowflake.
@Darren B: Most locals would have land or be employed on farms. Why would they leave their homes?
@Josh Hanners: it’s hard to know where to begin to answer such a stupid and ignorant question.
Most locals in Oughterard and much of the west of Ireland are accustomed to their offspring leaving the area and frequently leaving Ireland to get work.
(This might seem peculiar if you live on the dole in Dublin and depend on the Corpa to get you a house near yur Ma).
Most don’t work on farms and if you paid any attention to recent news reports you would know it wouldn’t provide a living if they did.
@Thomas Sheridan: I must say your post quite leaves me at sea. I replied to B Darren who said the people of Oughtererd should vacate the town. Your rant, apart from making assumptions about me which are totally false, is an idiotic exercise in inanity.
@Thomas Sheridan:
Ahh good stereotyping, you forget to mention inner City Dubs living on battered sausages.
New owners deal back on the table.
Intollerance 1 Compassion 0
Noeo Grealish TD will be delighted those ‘spoungers’ won’t be allowed into town.
Shame
@Anto H: Do you live there , oh wise one.
@Anto H: You think it’s good policy to add 250 people who are not allowed to work into a town with just 1500? Does ‘out of sight, out of mind’ sound like a good policy to you?
That’s what direct provision is all about.
@Will: Hi Will. I think these people need help. The town of Oughterard has turned them away when they needed it. The local TD called them spoungers and has still yet to be reprimanded for it by Leo and his gang. They’re not the only town who’s done this, eg. Rooskey. Other areas have helped even when stretched. The point is they’d have a better life in Oughterard, Rooskey, etc than what they have now, it’s everyone’s duty to help them out.
Pints on Grealish tonight
@Will: I also feel very sorry for the kids who would have benefited from the schools, sports clubs and interaction with other kids that they won’t get now. Its a sad day to not be able to give them these things even though we were able to
@Anto H: Do you think Direct Provision centres are a good thing now all of a sudden like Mosney?
Funny how all the same Far Left wing so called Liberal ‘good citizens’ have been campaigning against the immoral DP centres in the Republic for years now but are up in arms going out of their way to try shame the people of Oughterard for not wanting a DIrect Provision Centre!
Make up your minds, your ‘outrage’ lacks consistency and looks confused without any semblance of sincerity in principle and credibility now.
It is being used to house assylum seekers that are completely dependant on public services and the Irish tax payer. A holiday maker would bring money and jobs into the area. That’s quite a drastic change in use if you ask me. As they say don’t ruin a good story with the truth! Big wake up call for the looney left today. Irish people are awake.
Noel grealish shame
They couldn’t have done it without you
It’s a long long road
Best wishes my friend
@Paul Dooley: What goes around comes around – remember!
They have given into hateful right wing lies… shame on Oughterard
@Jessie Ginger: Yea, I’m sure you would be delighted with a provision centre near you.
As the world is watching tourists won’t visit there now. When the town complains they are getting no assistance and the local economy is collapsing don’t expect anyone to support them not even the racists who are done with them now and aren’t going to be any help.
@Wade Wilson: I doubt that tourists are reading Irish local news stories that regularly. I also suspect that the tourists that do visit Connemara do so for its unspoilt landscape and its inhabitants’ singular homogeneity.
@Damien Mc Padden: Yes and the sign should read “Welcome to Oughterard – Racist Capital of Ireland” – yes you’ll wake up some morning and Banksy will have been there!
The Parties are afraid of losing votes over this . So I imagine a new plan will come soon . An Anti immigration party I would imagine will do very well in the Next election. As the traditional ones just are not listening.
@Kevin Fahey: probably the same gang of people as we saw in Roscommon a few months ago. No mandate, not elected by the people.
@Aindriú Ó Searcaigh: im sure you would only be thrilled to have a direct provision centre on your door step. I bet you are another one of those people on here who scream racist and other outrageous comments yet you live in your own little suburban paradise and want it kept that way
I swiped left on this story !!!!
After organising extra doctors , buses , extra school places . Information booklets to let the local people of the village know the long term plan. Yeah right ha ha ha
An anti immigration party should do well in the next election. Well done FG.
What a load of BLACK HEATED RACITS
@Angela Godfrey Maher: Sorry, what are you talking about? RACITS! Maybe you mean “rabbits”. Oh, now I get it – a load of rabbits in black heat. I think you have the wrong article here, dear. You obviously meant to reply to the one about the bunnies in mating season.
@Angela Godfrey Maher: Who ? , if a non white complains about non whites are they racist ?
There coming to a village near you ha ha .
have your say