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THERE ARE AROUND 6,000 members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Ireland.
You might know them as Mormons.
To answer your questions straight away: no they don’t all go door to door, they don’t have multiple wives, they do celebrate Christmas, but they don’t make Communion, and their mass lasts three hours.
Restoration
The LDS church is a restorative faith founded in 1830 in New York. Smith believed that he was called by God to restore the Church of Jesus Christ. He established settlements in Missouri, but was run out of the state to Illinois.
There, he and his chosen successor, his brother Hyrum, were killed. Their successor Brigham Young would lead the church to what is now Utah, which is now the home of the church worldwide, having grown to 15 million members.
The religion is a Christian faith and teaches the Old and New Testaments, but also uses other texts, most notably The Book of Mormon.
The Book of Mormon is a text that Smith claimed to have translated from golden plates. It chronicles God’s interactions with people on the American continent.
In Ireland
Ben O’Farrell is a computer repairman from Clonsilla in Dublin.
His father joined the church around 50 years ago and Ben is now Stake President of the Church in Ireland. A stake is similar to a diocese in Catholicism.
He says that growing up as a Mormon in Ireland was not especially different.
“I have nothing to compare to, I went to a Protestant school for primary and went to a non-denominational school in secondary. Those things made it easier, but it wasn’t much different.”
When Mormon children reach eight years old, they are baptised, which gives them an occasion similar to a communion.
“Our baptism is done by immersion so it’s quite a visual thing. A lot of the children will have their school teachers or aunts and uncles who aren’t of the faith there.”
In a country that is mostly Catholic, is being of a different faith something that people comment on?
Most people aren’t very interested. I do computer maintenance and maybe after a few years of going to someone’s house, it might come up, but even then it’s just a couple of minutes of a conversation.
Catholic knock-on
While Catholicism is Ireland’s most populous religion, it is experiencing a drop in attendances. So, are people flocking en masse to churches like LDS? Not quite.
“Our church leadership in Frankfurt would ask us if we’re experiencing more people coming because of the controversies surrounding the Catholic Church, but we’re not really.
“It seems like people have lost faith in faith. They don’t just leave the Catholic Church, they leave faith.”
That said, the Mormon church in Clonsilla baptised around 60 people this year, so recruitment is strong.
That is because the church has missionaries who go door to door and attempt to recruit new members.
There are 85,000 missionaries across the world. They are all young men aged 18-21 and young women from 20-22 and all are voluntary and pay for themselves.
“They move around and teach in different places across Ireland and Scotland.”
Once they are of age, young men and women apply to their own church leaders to go on missionary service and are assessed.
Their application is then sent to Salt Lake City, where the Quorom of Twelve, the church’s version of the Twelve Apostles, assign them a mission. If they need to learn a language, the church helps them.
The differences
If you went to a Mormon church on a Sunday, what can you expect?
It’s a very different service. Three hours long. We start with music and hymns and we do what is, I suppose, a form of communion. The previous week, people are asked to prepare a speech on a certain theme so it makes it quite interesting because the congregation says mass.
“Then we all divide out and do Sunday School classes for an hour. Then the men and women go into different rooms and we do different classes on your role as a father or mother or son or daughter.”
Individual churches are led by bishops who are volunteers and the church is run by donations from the congregation. Like many Christian sects, they apply the law of tithe, which means individual members are expected to contribute 10% of their income to the church. However, there is no onus to prove your earnings to the church.
The churches are then used as community buildings for classes and meetings.
O’Farrell says that because of the small nature of the faith, it is a “much tighter community”.
The misconceptions
And what about all those things you thought about Mormons? Are they all wrong? What mistakes do people make?
“The biggest thing is people think it’s not a Christian faith.
We teach the Bible, we believe in the Immaculate Conception, we believe in Christ, that he died for our sins, we celebrate Christmas and Easter.
“It’s a restored church – we believe that there is truth in lots of faiths and that Joseph Smith was called to restore the Church of Jesus Christ.”
The other issue is polygamy, a practice introduced in the early days of the church but swiftly outlawed.
“That can been controversial, but it was practice by 5% of Mormon people for 20 years 200 years ago.
“People say “oh you’re the polygamists”, and say well we were for a short time – 200 years ago.”
This is the first in a series on minority religions in Ireland. If you are a member of a minority faith and would like to tell your story, email paulhosford@thejournal.ie
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This strike reminds me of Eastern Airlines in the 1980s
Workers went on strike demanding better hours and higher wages
Management told them the airline is just about surviving and will close if strike continues as they were haemorrhaging money
Workers kept striking
Airline closed
@Quentin Moriarty: sadly that is what needs to happen with all these strikes. The Unions are stuck back in The Industrial Revolution mindset whereas their conditions have moved on. You can’t demand more money out of thin air and if Irish Rail closes what are these lads going to do? Get a job with the competition? Why couldn’t the unions compromise or propose some improvements from the workers to try and secure the amount they wanted? same old mindset more money for the same or in some cases less work. They would strike if new trains that made their jobs easier were brought in.
@Quentin Moriarty: I can see the same thing happening here on some routes which private buses could replace. The government will probably let the strike happen until common sense prevails with the rail unions. This will enevitably lead to routes closing like has happened with Bus Eireann. Rail workers will lose out eventually, wait and see. It is a pity they can’t see common sense where economics are concerned instead of a greedy grab where everyone loses out.
@Derek Power: A deal was agreed by both senior management (up to second in command) and the unions two weeks ago. Apparently the vast majority of Irish rail staff were happy with the outcome. But the CEO of Irish rail refused to sign off on the deal, even though it had minimal impact on the companys finances….. As I said before, if you keep kicking the dog, it will eventually bite back at you!!!
@Quentin Moriarty: state owned company
Solidarity with the ticket sellers stuck in penury on 48 grand a year.
@Honeybadger197: ah you’d miss Wally all the same.
@Jane: Ah you wouldn’t though… :)
@Honeybadger197: I always got a bit of amusement out of his nonsense
@Jane: whatever happened to him as I know just like his arch enemies paid trolls like MK76 who are still on the Journal spouting crap, Wally did actually speak some sense but had very tunnel vision he was an out and out lefty and whilst I personally agree with some of what they come out with but they literally protest for the sake of protesting, come back wally
@David Mc Nally: why does an IT student think so vehemently that train drivers are underpaid at 43k per year?
@Jonny: I don’t know, he disappeared entirely. In my view he was ridiculous, his very odd sensible remark was totally overshadowed by his giberish.
@Jane:
The moment the Jobstown trial hit the four courts Wally disappeared…..
Mind you given the farcical ending of that I thought he would be back.
This strike was inevitable.Unions succeeded in getting ludicrous pay rises for the bus/tram drivers but what makes this unforgivable is the timing and length of the strikes which shows the contempt that the drivers and unions have for passengers. 14th with no Rail service.
Its time for the government to refuse to negotiate with trade unions. They are anti employment. They create barriers to entry for new employees to prop up the wages of the current staff. Bus Eireann is a perfect example, bus drivers making a fortune from over time, over time is a clear indication that more staff are needed. Instead of giving someone who is unable to pay their mortgage the chance to earn a living they make more demands for their already overpaid workers.
When we see the ridiculous wages the rail workers are on, remember that this money is taken out of the pocket of any would be earner. Unions are an absolute disgrace, say they are their to protect the working man but are anything but!
@Dark Knight: It is a bit different where bus drivers are concerned as it is more likely buses are held up due to congestion. You can’t have drivers walking off just because their shift ends leaving passengers stranded. These issues need to be sorted and written into employment contracts.
I read a case recently where a bus driver was suspended for not turning up for work causing the cancellation of a bus route.
@Chris Kirk: it only makes up a fraction of their overtime but even taking that into account, the amount they get paid for overtime encourages them to take as long as possible. They actually have an incentive to be inefficient.
I haven’t had a pay rise since 2008 either.
I can’t strike nor do I want to strike.
God help them when Irish Rail is shut down and sold to private enterprise.
@The IMF are here: Better to have an efficient private service in my view, there is a lot of dead wood with the present set-up and land occupied by CIE which could be sold or put to better use to make affordable homes.
Don’t know where you lot get your figures,There isn’t a ticket checker in the country on 48 grand or anywhere near it. There hasn’t been a premium rate for overtime since 2000. We’ve forgone payrises since 2008 and even took a voluntary pay cut for two years all the while production levels have improved,health and safety has improved. Btw there are more than train drivers on strike. Some beauts on here with no clue as to what the issues are.
@Peter O Brien: Rightly so! I hope they’re closer to minimum wage because it’s a minimum wage job!
@Peter O Brien: You’re wasting your time trying to talk sense here. They don’t want to know the truth of the issue. It’s a shill fest at the moment, the same ones are against any worker getting anything in the way of a wage increase. No problem that the CEO earns more than Leo and has had many increases to his salary and bonuses in the last 10yrs, so has his staff.
They want, like all neoliberal fans, all public services be privatised. They don’t look across the water to see the reducion in services, and the price gouging on in the privatised rail service there. They like to forget the price gouging in the privatised waste business.
Ordinary workers are simply “dregs” not worth the money they work for. They believe the spin and hype the media churns out that it’s the workers who are at fault. When it’s neoliberal policy to force privatisation and blame the workers.
And the minister for transport shane ross tweets about the man united match last night. Absolute pi$$ take of a country. He should be sacked over his handling with bus eireann. The unions and company were close to an agreement 5 days ago and this fool intervened. #clown #finegealmuppet
@Dan Ennis: What do you suggest Dan to resolve the situation ?
@Dan Ennis: the unions want the government to hand money over to cover costs, Ross is refusing. What else can he do?
@David Mc Nally: What has that to do with it?
@David Mc Nally: Does a company like Tesco or Ryanair send letters to it’s shareholders asking for more money? No it doesn’t. Why is it any different for a publicly owned company?
Trainw@nkers getting on my bus! :(
I’m in 2 minds about this one one hand I’m thinking well 10 years is a long time to go without a pay rise, however what I didn’t realise is some of the staff are on well over 50K which is a serious amount of money for most who aren’t D4 types
@Jonny: they have still been getting incremental rises as per their contract though – they just don’t count as pay rises apparently though.
It’s an average industrial job and should attract the average industrial wage! These lads have very low skill levels and what they do have is not transferable. Some Solicitors, Accountants and other professionals don’t earn the sort of money these jokers get. Sack them and start from scratch! About €35k a year is all they deserve!
@joe: For the vast majority that’s what they get,and what they don’t need is the likes of you denigrating their work. A lot of the work we do in the CCE is complex and challenging and whilst it doesn’t need a degree it does take training and experience garnered over many years and is done in all weather and mostly while everybody else’s is tucked up in bed.
@joe: Another job snob.
@Peter O Brien: one of the things I’ve never understood is people in public sector jobs complaining about “being out in all weathers while you’re tucked up in bed” or “working unsociable hours” – that’s what you signed up for. That’s the job. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. It’s totally irrelevant – when you take the position you know there’ll be shifts and late nights and outdoor conditions.
It’s like teachers complaining that they should get more pay because they have to deal with young people! Ridiculous.
Are you undervalued in your work – in your opinion? Yes? Then ask for a raise. If it’s refused – leave. That’s how the rest of the world has to operate.
@Peter O Brien: firstly did you not know that you would have to work in all weather when you took the job? Did the weather in Ireland become unpredictable overnight?
I agree that a lot of the work is highly skilled. However that is the problem with unions they are looking for across the board increases.Where somebody is in a role where their skills are in demand then they should be granted increases to retain their services. CIE should have programmes to help their employees upskill, however somebody who is happy to sit in the same role doing a menial task for 40-45 years shouldn’t be getting pay rises outside of inflation. Upskilling and further education should be encouraged and rewarded!
@Peter O Brien: complex and challenging? Do feel free to explain all these qualifications that are required to do the job that any pleb off the street cannot be trained in?
@Damien Gill: Go back to playing your X box ye gimp.
@Damien Gill: People in glass houses Damien.
@Peter O Brien: says it all really if thats your best retort and you cant defend your point in a rational manner
@Gary Mander: nothing to do with glass houses my point is valid for many a job ours included
@Damien Gill: “Pleb off the street”?
I just saw striking rail workers prevent a Bus Éireann Bus enter Galway station. Roads around station now being used as temporary bus station. Elderly people forced to lug bags another 300 metres to board bus.
The ordinary joe soap hasnt had a wage increase since the recession started and have no futher prospect of ever getting one id imagine. Rail workers are on good money,have a job with perks so id say screw them . Any rail employee who thinks its ok to make the general public suffer because of their demands is morally wrong. Suck it up and drive the dam trains for gods sake.
@Dave barrett: And the ordinary Joe soap is not getting anywhere near 55k a year. This is pure greed plain and simple. Can’t wait til trains are automated
Traffic wasn’t actually as bad as I thought it would be. Thank god for mid term!
But but but, we haven’t had a salary increase in 10 years, the company has been telling everyone about the record passengers numbers, right I’ve given the first 2 arguments we will hear on the news.
@Gavin R: they have been getting increments though which apparently doesn’t count as a pay rise.
@Theunpopularpopulist: but you’ve got it in one, doesn’t count as a pay rise, they want a rise but don’t want to give any extra productivity, the unions get a sniff of passengers increases and the first thing they look for is additional money.
Why don’t the clowns in government set up courses so the unemployed are shown how to operate trains. I m sure they would appreciate the work.
Get a motorbike, never have to use trains again, I did.
Start privatisation with the longer runs like Dublin/Galway, Dublin/Cork, etc. and get rid of the Bully Unions.
Train driving is not a Super skill and should not be deemed so.
An hour and a half later and still trying to get on a bus FFS
@Anthony Edward Healy: Took me two hours to get home on the bus and that was with leaving early from work as well. Got to see the nipper for five minutes before putting her to bed. Screw the unions. #workersagainstunions
Can anyone tell me what is the current pay ?
@Sean Foley: Starting salary is €37k escalating to €61 after 10 years. For comparison: the average graduate salary in this country is €26k.
No $h!t Sherlock
Paging Shane Ross.
The only support I saw them getting today on their pickets was from their fellow snouts in the trough i.e. The bus drivers.
The state needs to subsidise Irish Rail if it expects to maintain free/cost neutral tickets for pensioners and students. Everyone else pays for these people with the ticket price so high, but it should be paid through our taxes, otherwise it’ll continue to have people opting to use cars or the Bus.
@Ben Coughlan: newsflash the state ALREADY subsidises irish rail and pensioners etc.
When you have comprehended that simple fact then feel free to rejoin the discussion with the rest of the adults
Funny the Irish rail workers are getting it between the eyes in the comments below. And that maybe justified but a few foreign Pilots on £600 a day kicked off and the same crowd drove the boot into MoL instead of the pilots.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander?
@Gareth Cooney: Ryanair pilots are paid by a voluntarily operating commercial enterprise, and not by our government using our taxes.
@Gareth Cooney: We are shareholders in Irish Rail, we are entitled to an opinion into how they spend our money.
Being forced by unions to spend upwards of 60% of their revenue on Salaries and charging us €50 each way to get the train to Cork is not our idea of prudent spending
Irish Rail and the Unions should stop shilly shallying around this with a stoppage here and a stoppage there 5 days notified allready. Close the whole thing down and people will come to their senses in a very short time or else !!!
@Tony Hartigan:
Their afraid people might learn how to live without them.
Has Bus Eireann recovered market share since they went all out?
@Tony Hartigan: They sure will and get the Government to privatise it and get rid of Bully Unions
Drove to Dublin from Cork today. Was on Stephens Green, sandyford, Stillorgan. No major traffic at all. Thought it was easier than usual to be honest.
The government need to start work on teleportation travel, do away with buses and trains and all modes of transport in fact.
this so called government need s step in , and tell the unions ,
accept what s on the table or sell it off to a company that takes no b/ shit
Labour Court rulings should be made binding. Then maybe union’s wouldn’t be so fast to let talks fall apart after 2 days.
Please FF-FG, do something good with your right wing ideology for once….
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