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Updated 1.20pm
EDUCATION MINISTER JAN O’Sullivan has said she would like to see a referendum to repeal the 8th Amendment held in the future, but said it can’t happen under the current government.
O’Sullivan, a Labour TD, said this morning that she was concerned about the issue of fatal foetal abnormalities and said the emergence of the case of a woman who gave birth by caesarean after being refused an abortion was a “very, very difficult case”.
“I would like to see it in the future but it won’t happen in the lifetime of the current government,” O’Sullivan told RTÉ of the possibility of another referendum.
Earlier, junior justice minister Aodhán Ó Riordáin told the Irish Independent that the next government must be “brave enough” to call another abortion referendum. He said that the Constitutional Convention should be recalled to consider the matter.
The Labour TD has previously told this website that he does not believe the current coalition has the mandate to go beyond the legislation it introduced last year.
The case that has emerged over the weekend is one of the first under the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Act which came into force last year and has drawn criticism both from pro-choice and pro-life campaigners.
The Pro Life Campaign said that the development highlighted the “horror and deep seated flaws” in the government’s legislation passed amid much controversy last year. Pro choice groups believe the law is “unsafe”.
Four Labour groups within the party have called for the repeal of the 8th Amendment including Labour Women, Labour Youth, Labour Equality and Labour Intercultural.
They believe that the case highlights the need to repeal Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution which protects the right to life of the unborn “with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother”.
Sinead Ahern, the chair of Labour Women, said the case this case demonstrates that “those carrying the pregnancies are essentially treated as vessels devoid of independent human rights as was recently highlighted by the UN Human Rights Committee”.
“The only way these human rights violations can be stopped is by repealing the 8th amendment,” she said.
The amendment was made via a referendum in 1983 following pressure from pro-life groups. It was intended to completely outlaw abortion in Ireland. However the 1992 X Case resulted in the Supreme Court interpreting the law as giving a woman the right to an abortion in circumstances where her life is at risk, including from suicide.
Repealing the amendment would require another referendum.
The chair of Labour Youth, Ciaran Garrett, said it appeared from the latest case that “at no point” were the rights of the woman, who is not an Irish national, respected.
“This young woman, who it seems was in an incredibly vulnerable state, appears to have been forced by our courts and by the HSE to undergo numerous invasive medical procedures against her will,” he said.
The chair of Labour Intercultural, Karen Mc Cormack, said the woman in question would “not have been subjected to this barbaric treatment” had she gone abroad for a termination.
First published 12.23pm
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It tells us a lot about the culture and working of the seanad when the biggest story to come out of it last year was senators entitlement to free all ireland final tickets.
Still, those were media headlines – it’s the media’s whole job to entertain and advertise. Our Senate covers a lot of issues, have a look. http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/yearlist?readform&chamber=seanad
@Adrian: In fairness I do not believe it was the biggest issue to be discussed there. The Independents have ad a significant on the legislative system where Ministers are no longer assured of their majority whipped vote. The point here is it could do so much more if the wil is there to reform it.
Senators my hole,these people for the most part are egotists with little or no regard for the public good! Parasites on the public expenditure who like nothing more than the sound of their own voices.And the hypocrisy of aodhan o riordan voting against it then taking the seat was an insult to the electorate.
@Fiona Fitzgerald: You are correct and the current Seanad has had a significant impact on recent legislation
@Dave cullen: Dave I think you should read the contributions made in the Seanad by recently elected Senators all of whom have had a significant impact.
@Senator G Craughwell: Not to many THUMPS UP across your comments senator .. ‘ I am not sure if you’ should ‘participate.’ ……… !
I would suspect that the majority of people don’t see the Seanad been an effective body. They can’t stop any legislations, they can only delay it passage. They can’t change legislation, they can only offer suggestion. They’re not effective at introducing new legislation into the Dail.
@Senator G Craughwell: The Seanad flagged CETA at a time when it was highly relevant but (deliberately?) being underdiscussed elsewhere in the Oireachtas. I voted to retain the Seanad in the referendum and my reasons were about the potential of the Seanad and not how it was being constituted by the Irish political parties. I absolutely did not trust FG (or Labour) in the motive for putting forward the referendum (the dishonest claim that it amounted to political reform and reduction in number of politicians and that the Seanad could not be reformed (Enda Kenny’s position stated by Varadkar on Vincent Browne’s TV3 show), I did not trust them to (if they had won) transparently dissolve the Seanad (e.g. not sneaking in something in the legislation with wider consequences. That said the Seanad desperately needs serious reform to be relevent and the possibility of that in the current party political environment is extremely unlikely.
@Senator G Craughwell: The Seanad us a pointless, undemocratic, waste of money. Aren’t you embarrassed to be surrounded by so many other failed politicians who can only get their snouts in the trough by the back door method of Seanad elections and their tiny electorate?
Well done for engaging with the journal Senator in a transparent and honest manner a pleasant change from other politicians. It’s such a shame that the reform needed by the house has not been taken place as promised when the motion was defeated. In your opinion what reforms are needed to have a fully functional second house and what is the first step to it taking place?
Don’t mind the red thumbs haters going to hate….
Amazing that people who supported the abolition of the senate are now the first ones to fill in the expenses sheets and collect salary.# snouts in trough.
@john g mcgrath: Yeah, one particular Labour senator Aodhan O Riordhain for example. Nauseating hypocrisy at his worst!
Curious to see what the author as a senator himself thinks of the hypocrisy of Aodhan O Riordhain? #thetwitfromtwitter
A bit like a real politician in a way senator.Answer the questions you want to. What if I ask you your favourite pizza topping??
The truth is nominations for the Seanad election should close on the same day as they do for the Dail. I am totally opposed to the use of the Seanad as a consolation prize for anyone. I hope this answers your query.
We should be allowed to vote again because we got it completely wrong the last time!
For once we agree on something.
Think this lay about store should be given the axe . The likes of Heather Humphreys and her free GAA tickets entitlement. The like of her and more should go on job seekers and learn how the real people of Ireland live.
Heather Humphreys is a member of the Dail not the Seanad.. that was Michelle Mulherin you are referring to, but she should be retired as should the rest of them, half the Dail and CC’s too
All anyone wanted was to vote against Ends. He hoodwinked the nation again. Seanad waste of taxpayers money full stop…
@Willy Malone: Just imagine how free the Government would be if there were no Seanad. Imagine how hard Ministers would have to work if they were not assured of a whipped majority. A reformed Seanad could do so much more.
@Willy Malone:
So because Kenny proposed abolition of the Seanad, it’s his fault it’s still there?
That’s some pretty twisted logic right there.
Maybe people could take some personal responsibility for how they voted, rather than whinging that Enda made them do it by proposing the opposite.
@Willy Malone: Enda hookwinked no one. The stupidity of the Irish population was laid bare. Kept the Seanad to give Enda a bloody nose.
@Gerard – the notion of the second house from an oversight and governance perspective. But sometimes you need to start again.
@Brinster: do you get time and a half os double time for working on a sunday?
Oh can we please stop with the crap. . As soon as someone has a difference of opinion they are accused of being a shill or a troll . It’s ridiculously immature!
@Bejasus Bejorrah:
How incredibly funny and original you are.
Not pathetic at all.
Thank you for your incredibly incisive retort…did you think that ip by yourself?
Did you see the SIPO reports where FG Fraperoom lackeys charged €93k for their services?
….. “I am confident that few, if any, voters would vote to keep the outdated and ineffective upper house we operate in today”
I BET THEY WOULD !…the Irish electorate are one of the must gullible easily led electorate in Europe..that’s why we have been plagued with the politics of FG & FF for ever and a day, and why we vote NO, YES, NO, YES again..and DONT KNOW….we are electorally stupid !
@CJ Stewart: Well now CJ that is just a bit harsh on the Irish electorate but I am not sure if you participate.
@Senator G Craughwell: well senator..since you are not sure..why open your mouth in the first place… ? ? ? ?
How about allowing citizens to vote for their senators? Like they do in other democratic countries. Im not a fan of the senate but we need it
@Michael Collins: The current Seanad reform Bill has this included in it.
@Michael Collins: that in the reform bill he mentions http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=33177
We have the veneer of Democracy. A lot more representation could be done if these institutions were modernised.
I voted to keep the Seanad, but it badly needs reform, PROPER reform.
The only thing the Seanad change’s is their paychecks.
Reform will never be on the agenda. Something that useless needs to be abolished.
In that case, you effectively voted for FF to reform the Seanad as they were the only major party to ‘promise’ such reform. SF, I have to say, rose in my estimation when they supported abolition as they recognised that reform was never going to happen.
Let have another vote on this lot…
The reason people voted against abolishing the Seanad was very simple, they feared handing TD’s total power, especially after bringing the country to the brink of bankruptcy (and other abuses) with the power they already had.
An Seanad allows nominee Seanators of the Taoiseach, such as Marie Louise, draw a good salary and to express sycophantic adoration of the Taoiseach.
It also gives a platform to eccentric and obsessed types to voice strong fumdamentalist Roman Catholic dogma.
I voted for retention and would do so again. Its true the Seanad is largely a talking shop. But as the Senator says, the govt no longer has a majority there and as such, if the Seanad puts its mind to it it can wield real influence through the delaying power.
have your say