Big difference between a plastic bag and a gun there Ziggy, guns are designed specifically to hurt people in the most efficient way possible, where as plastic bags are designed to carry things.

When a child gets hold of a loaded gun terrible things are almost inevitable, that’s not the case when a child gets hold of a plastic bag.

In Ireland steps were taken to ensure that plastic bags have holes and that the danger of accidental child asphyxiation can be reduced whilst allowing the plastic bag a utility value.

Unfortunately, guns are inherently dangerous. A bright child can disable the safety catch and playfully shout the gun.

To gun advocates, everything is dangerous but guns are perfectly fine.

Ziggy, I can’t imagine anyone ever staging a hold-up armed with a plastic bag as a weapon.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/child-injured-killed have a read of these statistics…

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/child-injured-killed

If there was a god to love that child he wouldn’t have been shot and killed.

Oh Jesus Noel

So you think that because God created man he’s responsible for all their cock-ups. Oh please.

Brian
Your logic is astoundingly stupid.

Really Brian, that’s your argument?? There’s no reason for anyone to have a gun laying around the house. Stop the sale of guns and ammunition to anyone other than law enforcers and it will eliminate these types of “accidents”. I think you’re a fool if I’m honest.

What’s a responsible gun owner Brian? A gun owner who keeps there gun locked away?

Human fallibility means that where there are guns, there will be accidents.

That’s a silly argument and you mustn’t have any kids or if you do you can’t be a very thoughtful person that spends any amount of time thinking things through in life. Obviously you wouldn’t leave your kids unattended in your car where they could be a danger to either themselves or anyone else. The mother was not responsible at all, leaving a weapon of death for a child to get there hands on is not responsible behaviour, the same way I wouldn’t leave an upstairs window open or a carving knife in the floor or rather poison out in the open. Because a person choose to buy a weapon and leave it where a child could get it we now have a dead child. This is going to be on the child’s parents conscience for the rest of their lives that through their own fault a small child is dead.

Vincent guns are designed to fire a projectile at a target. What the target is depends on the shooter so I’m sure that clay pigeon shooters and Olympic target shooters will be quite surprised to find out that their sports weapons are designed not for accuracy but to kill.

Gerry thanks for that one line comment that calls my logic stupid, would you care to elaborate on your reasoning behind it?

Brian, I actually couldn’t be arsed, Anyway, I dont have to, The other posters have exposed the stupidity of your analogy better than I have.

He called you stupid because you’re stupid, Brian.

Brian, the point is that the authorities make absolutely no effort to see if the person they are selling to is fit for owning a weapon and keeping it responsibly. You have to prove yourself to be allowed operate a car on the road, but even the most uncaring person can buy and leave lying around weapons, which are glamorised on TV and in movies such that kids are given copies of them as toys. It’s obvious that kids are going to play with them UNLESS they are taught otherwise AND loaded weapons are kept out of their reach. So, in your mind, who is to blame, when an adult sells a weapon to someone who will leave it loaded and available for a kid to use when they are not around?

Roy that is exactly what a responsible gun owner is. I had guns for years and was taught by my father how to handle them properly unloaded for months before I was even allowed to load them. Everytime I secured my weapon, either a shotgun or .22, after I was finished with it they were broken down and stored in separate locations with the ammo also in a separate location. Everything was under lock and key.

Brian I doubt this women had a semi automatic sniper rifle for the Olympics in her house. I would be fairly certain she had a hand gun in her purse for “protection”.

Yes Brian, well done to you and your father … but you are not the problem.

Listening to gun nuts trying to justify assault rifles is like listening to a junkie trying to rationalise their drug habit.

Where human beings are involved, it is not possible to eliminate human error and simple human carelessness. Strict and inflexible procedures can minimise the risk but if you or your father lost the head, had a moment of crisis, an intense sense of grievance, the outcome could have been different. Mistakes happen. Moments of crisis occurs. That is the human condition.

Exposure to guns can blind people to the inherent risks involved in guns.

Guns and assault rifles *

Jonny it seems to me that your argument is that anything that could be dangerous should only be allowed to the handled by proper authorities. In this case it is a gun. I held guns for years and acted in a responsible manner as do well over 100k+ gun owners in Ireland. Your argument that we should not be allowed have these weapons for sporting purposes on the basis that there might be an accident is what sounds ridiculous to me. It is more nanny state thinking that we should bubble wrap society in case something bad should happen. Responsible shooters stow their weapons safely, irresponsible ones don’t and we end up with this sort of tragedy.

Brian, you do seem like a responsible gun owner but the point about gun control in America is that the right to bear arms does not discriminate between responsible people and stupid people.

I listened to a radio interview with a father who went on about how if you teach your children the dangers of guns and store them properly there is no danger. His daughter then told him when she was younger she had played with one of his guns when getting ready for a part in a school play. She had accidentally shot the floor in the bedroom.
The father is then interviewed later on after being home and found the bullet holes in the house. It had gone through the floor and ceil but also through the floor in the living room all the way to the basement. It had happened 10 years earlier and he had never known. The man had always believed he had his guns secure and ammunition stored separately. He got rid of his guns the following day as he still had children in his house.

Gun owners sound like drug addicts trying to rationise their way of life but a simple test would show how people in the main view them. Take a gun and walk down o connell Street in Dublin and see what the response would be, the people would run away from you and the guards would arrest you. The fact is that their is a direct corellation between guns and death, they are scarey items designed for only one purpose and that’s to kill.

Roy if it was a handgun then she should have had a trigger lock on it, the chamber cleared and the magazine out. She should have had it in a safe with a key or combination access. The point is that the gun by itself is never, ever going to shoot itself. It is down to the person who uses it. Blaming guns for shooting people is like blaming cars for knocking people down.

The biggest problem in the US it’s the mentality of the people there, Switzerland has nearly as high an amount of gun ownership per capita yet they don’t have any of the problems that the States has because that are taught how to use guns properly.

Brian Ward makes the classic error in logic by drawing a universal conclusion from what he asserts is his personal experience. He fails to allow for the reality that guns are rarely stored in such a safe environment and there is always the risk that another family member, friend or burglar might take the guns and use them to kill or to maim.

It reminds me of a televised interview 12 years ago in the US. The gun advocate said that he left the rifles in one part of his house with a three lock procedure, the ammunition under lock and key in a outbuilding over 200 yards from his house and he kept the firing mechanisms separately. He then advanced the proposition that he kept the guns for self defence and was ready for a sudden incursion into his home.

It emerged that all of his safety procedures were fictitious. He kep the fully loaded and operational weapons around his home, under the beds, in cupboards and other accessible locations for quick access and use in case of emergency.

Chikdren know how to access guns. Their parents best efforts can be avoided.

I take the elaborate safety measures with a grain of salt.

I agree john, but the whole American argument for having a gun is for “protection” tell me what protection does an empty gun, with the magazine out and a safety clip on? Is the crime going to stand there waiting for the gun owner to open the locked draw or safe, then load the gun, cock it , then take the safety off?. Problem is guns and everyone is allowed to own a gun. You see no problem with going into your local Walmart and buying a gun in 7 minutes?

Aoife if you walk down O’Connell Street waving a loaded shotgun around the place in a crowded area then you should be arrested and rightly so seeing as it is the irresponsible thing to do. If however you walk down through a town with your gun broken open and unloaded as I have in the past, then when your local guard stops you it is to ask if you have shot anything that day it is to blag himself a nice pheasant for the dinner. Thanks for your comment though as it clearly shows how much you know about gun owners, gunmanship and shooting in general.

Padraig Nally had a reason to have and 99% here supported him. Always the same, people’s opinions change like the weather.

I am shocked that a sportsman hunter would walk through a town with his shotgun broken open. That is grossly irresponsible and stupid. It is an invitation to burglars or robbers to steal your shotgun. It has the potential to cause alarm. Bribing a Garda with.a pheasant should not buy you special privileges.

A sensible and responsible Garda Superintendent would have your Licence properly revoked if there is any truth at all to what you say.

Padraig McNally was wrong to do as he did. He has paid a terrible price. Ahern should have avoided the confrontation. CCTV and a safe area in the home works better.

Micheal it isn’t just my own experience but the experience of every other gun owner in Ireland that I draw on. Gun clubs regularly have classes for new and experienced shooters in gun care and safety. As for your assertion that “He fails to allow for the reality that guns are rarely stored in such a safe environment” It is a matter of law http://tinyurl.com/je9k2zy that you have a gunsafe if you have 2 or more firearms. If you have 1 shotgun you have to have a trigger lock or if you have only 1 .22 rifle you have to have a safe. People do use them because if your gun is stolen then there is hell to pay and you will probably never get a licence again.

If there are people leaving them at the side of the bed it is because of the roaming gangs terrorizing the countryside but that is another argument.

Michael you clearly haven’t a clue about gunmanship with that comment. The correct procedure for climbing over any obstacle or walking through any area where you do not intend to shoot is to break open your weapon, remove the ammunition and carry the broken weapon in the crook of your arm with the barrel pointing down. This is known as the elbow or side carry https://tpwd.texas.gov/education/hunter-education/online-course/hunting-safety/safe-carries .

What would be grossly irresponsible and stupid would be to walk through a built up area with a fully loaded shotgun no matter what way you carried it.

As for bribing it was more a trade seeing as he prefered shoot snipe and woodcock which are a lot harder to hit and he’d drop a feww in to me when he got them. Responsible shooters don’t shoot game and throw it away, they care for the countryside.

I have lived in 2 midland towns where there is a strong local hunting scene. I often holiday in the West of Ireland and there is a lot of hunting. I have never ever seen a hunter with a broken shotgun walking down the street openly displaying a broken shotgun. That has never happened. It could well amount to a breach of the peace. It would be a grounds for seeking the cancellation of the licence. It’s truly appalling. I happen to know some hunters and they would be horrified by such conduct. They admire discretion and they never display their guns.

I am aware of hunters regularly donating shot game to members of An Garda Siochana and I know of one prominent business man who shoots deer giving hospitality to the members of an Garda Siochana every Christmas. It’s abiu keeping An Garda Siochana “sweet” but it is a form of minor bribery.

I accept the procedure for breaking a shotgun fior safety purposes. You raised that as a pure distraction.

I certainly don’t accept that any respectable and responsible hunter would walk down the street of any town displaying his weapon. I think that you are spoofing on this.

On the generosity of hunters to An Garda Siochana, this is very well known and long established except that it is not limited to the small game you refer to.

All of this is a long way from the use of handguns which are not used for shooting game.

@Brain? Was that sarcasm? And perhaps just lost on all of the readers? Please say it was…

Once the bullet leaves it’s chambers there is no going back .Nice try though

Brian, the gun was invented to kill, has been updated to kill more efficiently and accurately and is mainly produced for the military so they can kill and kill as many people as possible. The fact that civilians shoot targets is only because killing in a civilian context is murder/manslaughter. Your argument that it’s ‘designed to fire a projectile.. blah blah” is pathetic and a poor attempt at deflecting the argument.
A car is designed for transport, a bag is designed to carry things, and a gun is designed to kill.
Should we allow civilians easy access to plastic bags? Yes
Should we allow civilians easy access to guns? No

@Jonny Irish: “….a gun laying around the house”? Does it lay bullets?

Brian, I’m a clay pigeon shooter and it’s no surprise to me to hear that a gun can kill. I had a fair idea of that all along, in fact, but thanks for sharing your knowledge with the nation.

I have no doubt that when they design their guns and ammunition, weapons companies spend a great deal of time and money on ensuring they’re very good at hitting clay pigeons, paper targets and ol’ tin cans on fences.

And people too, if they get around to it.

@vincentf cars can kill just the same as guns. When you get behind the wheel of a car you immediately have the ability and the means to kill someone. Lots of people forget this hence danger/idiotic driving resulting in deaths.

The rudeness of the posters on here is deplorable. What happened to people having different views? For sure debate and argue but what’s with the childish name calling and personal attacks on strangers just because they don’t agree with you? Really really pathetic.

Brian, every Tom, Dick & Harriet shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun. If there were better gun controls in the US we wouldn’t be constantly hearing of cases like this & mass shootings.

Very succinctly put Brinster.

If Oscar Pistorius hadn’t been allowed to have a gun he wouldn’t have been able to ‘ accidentally ‘ shoot his girlfriend dead. Who that knew him would have thought him capable of it.

Brian, you don’t know know sh*t if you think every one is so responsible.

You’d have to wonder what an Garda Siochana are giving in return.

Isn’t it the case that the majority of gun owners don’t stop crime from happening and that most deaths are the result of feuds and error. The argument that it’s due to mental illness begs the question as to why so meny Americans are mentally ill. Guns are freely available in the states but I haven’t heard of any cases where a mass shooter was stopped by another citizen.

Guns are available to people here too, and I can tell you I have a family member that got one here, legally and had a licence despite having a psychiatric record of major concern. He has paranoid schizophrenia and as we speak is in a psychiatric ward. He was able to get a licence in Ireland, no problem whatsoever. There is no system in place to stop this from happening. This man suffered incredibly severe psychotic episode every 6 or 7 weeks for 20 years. He still does. Yet, he got a licence.

In the end, as he was completely out if it, I hid the licence renewal letter for his gun and the guards came and took it, and destroyed it as he hadn’t paid it and the licence expired. I had no choice. He was a danger to himself and others. He would g off his medications constantly and end up in a psych ward for a least 6 months of the year, every year, for 20 years. And he got a licence and a gun. He later bought a silencer for the rifle and that’s when I moved on it. He has no history of violence – that’s very important to note, he still doesn’t, and was and is, q gentle soul whose interest in guns was that he genuinely liked to go target shooting with his rifle on farms and with the farmers permission. But, I just couldn’t wait for anything to happen as he was totally paranoid about things you just would not believe if I told you. This was about 20 years ago, and I was in my late teens at that point. Try sleeping under the same roof as someone that, in the room right next door to you, is having extreme paranoid delusions and has a gun in hi his wardrobe with a silencer. Not a nice experience. Try doing that for a few years.

We need to make sure people with serious illnesses conn

….can;t get guns

In some cases, the owner may be trained and even cautious. Then a son or member of the family steals the licensed guns, goes to a school and massacres the students.

The point is that even if yiu could achieve the objective of totally stable, well trained and responsible gun owners. Other members of the family or friends or strangers can take the guns and use them to kill other people.

In a fearful and aggressive society with a highly developed gun culture, associated with a fervently held right wing outlook, generally more associated with the Republican party , guns can be a very bad idea.

If you own a gun you are more likely to die by a gun shot than not. It isn’t even the fact you will accidentally shoot somebody it is likely it will be used for suicide by somebody in the house. On top of that you have accidental shootings or acts of rage.