Good one Tom, thanks !

The lead pilot of the two F-16s was a Captain G.Brooks from Tulsa, Oklahoma, who has the handle “Kizzmyazz” stenciled on the side of the aircraft. I kid you not.

And our lads are flying around taking photos !

you have great eyesight!!!!!!!!!!!

He’s from Yukon, Oklahoma

He was born in Tulsa but moved to Yukon. Apparently he is thinking of moving back to Tulsa though.

Ya. His mother, Janice, still lives in Yukon and has become quite dependent since she broke her hip. He’s a good man.

ah FFS, who cares where he is from, my Jesus

Thanks Tom.

Haha!

We had something close to them at one time..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/IrishAirCorps_deHavilland_Vampires_1955.jpg

I’ve seen them in the museum.

I’ve always considered it a really illogical contradiction that the people on this site are always gung ho about praising the army and navy but they refuse to consider the idea of a small air force, a few jets don’t cost much more than a navy to buy or maintain, it’s fairly strange to be gung ho about 2 parts of an armed forces and totally opposed to the other.

There has always been that element in Irish politics though, the Greens didn’t even want the army to have new APCs ffsake,

The UK got rid of a few Harriers a while ago. Missed opportunity. Mind you, the maintenance costs would be crippling and they are, apparently, a bit of a handful to fly. I read a comment from an ex-Harrier pilot a while ago. It paraphrases to “This is an aircraft that will repay a moment’s inattention with death”. The piece was longer than that but you get the idea.
Until you’ve had an F-16 go vertical about 50 ft above your head you don’t know what real noise is. Ditto Tornado and Eurofighter Typhoon.

I used to think they would be a good buy as well, people posted here on other similar topics though throwing cold water on the idea. American friends in the military know guys in the Marine Corps who have flown them they say they are a ba___d in maintenance costs and that it has poor ordinance capacity and range. It’s also got something in common with the F-35 (the bloated monster the US air force no longer even wants but the MI complex through congress is forcing on them) in that it tends to kill pilots. At least 45 dead due to mechanical failures by them.

The big draw with harriers during the cold war was the VTOL capability. So if a conventional WWIII happened (or a limited nuclear exchange) the bases would go totally or have cratered runways with cluster bombs so the idea of a VTOL craft looked very attractive. There was also another reason NATO liked them, in the event the big one happened and the nukes flew if the air bases were taken out totally you might still have your harriers because they could be dispersed to hard packed roads in isolated areas. The plan was that they’d hide them up mountains in Scotland, Germany, France etc in country roads out of the way and they could have de facto air bases out there.
Much of the complaint was so much space was used for the VTOL capability that there wasn’t much room for anything else.
A better choice I’m told would be Saab Viggens they have much of the same capability without many of the downsides, they also can take off and land vertically, the Scandinavians make good stuff.

Ablitive, yes, the Vampire was a jet fighter. Apart from that it is like comparing a Morris Minor and an Aston Martin DB9.

The vampires were more of a trainer aircraft, timber used it its construction, still a lot faster than what they have now. I can remember them in three abrest at the Easter Parade as a kid.

Ok the operating cost per hour of even a cheap fighter jet is somewhere between €10,000 & 35,000 per hour! Now add into that the purchase of jet trainers, runway & support infrastructure upgrades etc

We would have to double or triple our current military budget just to operate 3/4 fighters.

The UK cut the harrier because of cost only the US could afford to take them and purchased them for parts for their aircraft.

As for Any plane being in a reactor before the RAF get permission nonsense, there is normally 2 Typhoons in Anglesey for exactly that purpose and all sensitive UK nuke sites are defended by anti aircraft measures.

The is not a single justification that the Irish defence forces could make for fighters, considering the cost and the cuts that would have to be made elswhere

The idea Ireland would buy a squadron of F-16s is ridiculous.

The are incredibly complex and maintenance intensive especially if we were buying older original block ones. Our pilots are trained on fast jets and the F-16 costs like 20 grand an hour to fly. We would need jet trainers and even then we would need more than a squadron of F-16 to take account of training and maintenance.

It’s totally out of sync with the capabilities of the Irish air core. We could buy some super tucanos which would be far more appropriate. Gen4 avionics and network centric and can carry out air patrols without capabilities we cannot afford.

@ Graham…… well if Uganda can afford (with help from our taxpayers money) to of the range Russian strike aircraft. Why can’t we have some nice “shiny toys”!

Ryan, I don’t think you are too far off the mark with your comment. The Irish are out on peacekeeping duties at the minute in Syria and were in a gun battle last night against Al Qaida rebels. Add that to the fact that last week it became known that Ireland has become a hiding ground for some of these rebel fighters, these lads don’t differentiate between peacekeeping and combat. I honestly think we could be at risk and let’s be fair we would be sitting ducks if something were to happen.

ISIS is going to invade Ireland now?

Look we could have done with some reconnaissance/ground attack planes in Chad. But F-16s, really?

@taxi bill Exactly. They even have a dozen MIGs purchased from Libya which is what we should have at the very least. Our air corp is an embarrassment to any developed nation.

The government flying club or air corps don’t need anything like this they are doing fine with the little Cessna’s.

Saab good? I doubt you ever drove any recent Saab cars. Bangers.

@Graham @Taxibill, having the aircraft and maintaining the hardware and crews to effective status are two very different things!

Look at the Iraqi or Syrian airforces for an example of how to do it badly

People are grossly overflowing the cost of operating jets
They don’t LITERALLY cost x per hour, that’s per hour flying, every jets by nature has a high cost per hour of operation the govt jet costs 9000 an hour to run didn’t stop us having two of them did it.
RAF jets sitting in the UK are absolutely useless to a hyjacked jet coming from the Atlantic approaches their radar can’t see that far out, they would be on top of those reactors by the time those jets even got the alerts to go into the air.
Even with jets it’s hard to combat a threat like that, there was a full military exercise going the morning of 911 how many jets got to their targets? None. We have missiles but they don’t have enough range.
Once Hijackers turn off a transponder it’s just one dot among many the only way to actually figure out where it is is interceptors. Then they have to flank the aircraft, communicate with it through hand signs, get permission to shoot it down, this is all after a long LONG search to intercept the thing in the first place, and think how quickly a jet gets from the west irish coast to the UK coast.
The US aIR FORCE on 911 was searching for over an hour for some of the jets that were missing.,

Eventually there will be a common EU military and the entire point will be moot because the EU will be pooling all these costs, the foundations for this are already in place.

In the mean time though there are plenty of other options we could take that would spare us the high sticker price of interceptors:
1. We could allow the RAF to extend their area of operation to cover all of Irish airspace and land in Shannon and Baldonnel in exchange for a small contribution towards the RAF operating budget
2. We could join NATO and get Iceland-like deal
3. We could cut a deal with the USAF like no1
4. We could get a smaller number of jets say 4-6 just enough to do a bare bones job, negotiate a stable deal on maintenance contracts. The US defense industry cuts cost deals with smaller countries all the time who can’t afford the same operating costs the USAF itself pays.

The Harrier prove itself in the Falklands . Not one aircraft was lost against the Argentinian airforce . It excell not only in the air war but also attacking targets on the ground . 24 Harriers won the war for the Brits .

Viggen is STOL not VTOL. We could get Grippen’s which are same class as Typhoon and F22 but have great range. Sweden uses them for maritime patrol and can take off and land on a road !

There are some serious issues with the Grippen, in terms of electronics.

Yes Ryan the cost per hour is for flight time, but how many hours do you need to keep you pilots on peak condition. How many hours of training will it take to get them ready and all the sundry expenses, maintenance costs, buildings, runway’s and their upkeep etc! Also remember our defence budget is the lowest in thee EU! Even Luxembourg spend more

As for the intercept times the RAF have moved 2 Typhoons on almost permanent station rumour has it they are kept on QRA status while there

Ryan
Not disagreeing with you but the chances are any NATO. aircraft would come from UK bases and would f course need tasking from NATO. The treaty with UK means that any RAF fighter would probably be quicker and may well be in the air already and closer. Think that any strange ac spotted heading towards a power station would result in a plane or two going up and shooting threat down as soon as it entered UK airspace.

Ryan
Agree another point re Harriers they are a ground support ac and not interceptor too slow. The Saab probably is a good alternative, and doubt if more than 3-4would be read.
However I disagree with part of your comment. Everyone knows that Army is the best by far of any armed forces, who needs anyone else. Very much tongue in cheek remark.

You should get that head injury looked at.

Buying F16s is only the start; then they have to be operated and maintained the cost of which relates to the new price, and not what you paid second-hand. Just like buying a 20-year old Rolls Royce, one might pay only a couple of grand for the car, but the first major service could cost five grand, or even ten, and as for the fuel…….

Aidan, the later Saab cars were Homogenised General Motors products and very variable. The pre-GM cars were excellent. Of course, the brand is now dead. The aircraft division of Saab were not part of GM, unless I’ve missed something, and yes, they’re good aircraft.

Alan, yes, they are STOL but that alone does not enable them to use roads. Sweden designed numerous roads with this function in mind. Any country could do the same…….but you need to keep potholes filled, obviously. Street lights are a bit of an inconvenience also.

Very silly idea , firstly we are supposed to be a neutral country and secondly who would we bomb with F 16s , the Isle of Man or Skellig Michael ? The USA cuts deals with small countries on defence and F16s in a effort to control and manipulate them, no other reason.

Slight aberration in your comment. The Marines never flew F-16′s. They moved on to the F/A-18.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

I used to be cabin crew and once while waiting on the tarmac, sitting on the aircraft steps, one those bad boys appeared and did that vertical thing straight up above our heads… Absolutely amazing sight and sound… AMAZING!!!

Aint that why knock airport was built. So that there is an effective radar and early warning system on our west coast. FR Horan didnt do an anglo and pull all that money out of his ass.

18 F-16 with spares and maintenance is 4.2 billion.

Ryan, Saab Viggens cannot take off or land vertically, they can only take off conventionally on runways although they can get airborne very quickly on a short runway.

David…I’m with you on that. However 12-15 F-16s/ Gripens’s could very well be the best option.
F-16 as it is the Toyota o the sky or Gripen as it was designed as a cost effective alternative to the F-1/ F-18/ Typhoon. So many European AF’ already operated the F-16 makes it a 2nd buyers market.

Super Tucano’s would not significantly increase the capability of the Air Corps over the current PC-9′s

You could look at the Hawk as an option

No probs, my first time to see them and hear them, absolutely brilliant machine

‘Just the two planes is it? Be graaaannd ‘ said the Iraqi.

Where did you hear that? Just curious. Thanks.

Some people are easily amused !

Allowed

Glen hoddle you are a nerd

Lol !

I see what you did there Glen. Kudos sir!

Thought he meant shouldn’t be loud :/

I live about 5 minutes north of Croker and them jets were legend today more please

Get your placard out….. “down with this sort of thing”… Might make you feel better

Theres no RAF bases up north anymore, hasn’t been a US base there since WWII.

Petr, what poor brown babies? These planes are not in action over Africa!
Typical leftist response from you.
I see your friends have Migs.

That’s right killing brown people have you F…… Seen what Isis is doing you idiot. Only for America we would all be speaking Arabic and our women whipped for going out on the streets. You tick C…

At least the captured Yankee air pirates got what was coming to them in the Hanoi Hilton in the 1960s.
Pity any of them were returned after that war.

There’s always one, an assh.le who has to bring skin colour into a perfectly innocent conversation, get a life ye bell end

Declan you plonker. I didn’t mention brown babies. And I think you’ll find most people are black rather than brown in Africa!

The country you come here to defend has slaughtered literally hundreds of thousands of innocent in Iraq, to take just one example.

I’m kinda between you both on this. They do kill a lot of brown people in faraway places without putting pilots lives at risk, that’s simple fact.

There are three types of drone strikes. One, what I call the ”west wing Abdul Sharif” option is when they have a terrorist leader targeted and a Predator or Reaper drone follows his car out of the city and drops a hellfire missile on him, blowing up the car (sometimes taking out innocents around the car). I agree with that because that disrupts plots in progress, creates a natural pause, brings up more inexperienced leadership that will be easier to catch etc
The other two are another story. Theres the signature strike, where they don’t know who they are killing, frankly I don’t know how this is even done and I don’t know how Obama sleeps at night after ordering one of these…this is basically ”is that an RPG or a camera….I …er…think it’s an RPG…FIRE”.

Now say the guys gotten into a van between the time you said fire, hit the button and the missile was away, and he’s driven a few steps down the street, the back of the van gets blown up and he’s in the front, not moving, could be dead. This is when they’ might do a ”double tap” strike (nicknamed after the two tap of bullets to the head to take down a suicide bomber) they will wait for an ambulance to come and then they will fire another missile and murder the paramedics and any survivors….that is morally reprehensible IMO, murder at best and a major war crime at most. This is why the US didn’t sign up to the ICC and why the congress passed the SPA law.

So why is this not so black and white? The US like all imperial powers (and they HATE to be called that, but that’s basically what they are, a modern version of it, you don’t need to occupy a country to do colonialism on it these days) does good and bad.
You have the bad example, heres a good example of them dealing with brown people.

In the early 1990s, remember the Somali famine? The US marine corps used it’s amphibious assault ships and it’s airlift capacity to end that famine, they ended the famine, 100%. They were repaid for that with their friends in Rangers and Delta being murdered and dragged through the streets dead in the Black Hawk Down incident.
They do good, they do bad. It’s both.

Ryan RAF Aldergrove is base in Antrim . It’s soon to be the home of 503 squadron which is a squadron of tornados .

I’ve changed my mind there’s 2 of them, the second loves to give us a history lesson on anything because he’s an authority on everything regardless of the articles topic

The problem is Ryan you only hear about the bad . The humanitarian operations don’t count for a thing in this world . Out of 7 ops iv been involve in only two of them involve military force Afgan and Iraq . The other five where about preventing genocide , ethic cleansing and poverty where not a single shot had been fire . It seems to be that giving life doesn’t seem to be as important as taking life in the eyes of many people .

Serbians weren’t brown, neither are ethnic Russians in Ukraine, but being an anti-white hater you wouldn’t care about them.

Petr, I made a simple mistake.
Btw, I thought in your world there would be no differences between people. We would all be the same. It would be hard to tell anyway as we would all be wearing khaki uniforms and carrying little red books.

Petr, I think that you will find that the differences between people in Africa is far greater then in Europe. Only you see everything in black and white.

Jaysus petr, you’ve gotten yourself a fierce amount of red thumbs there now.

A relative of mine served at Aldergrove during WWII as a mechanic!

Go and say your prayers you piece of S,,, America has done a lot of good in the world. But to be honest with you I hope they forget about the good for a few mins and wipe you out.

Petr, no. The Iraqis have slaughtered themselves.

Ah Deco. I see you’re on Twitter now. Moving into the 21st century, are we? lol

I told you a million times I don’t give a fiddlers about red thumbs. Only simpletons like yourself care about such things. This is not a popularity contest, you do realise that?

As for black and white… here’s an introduction to critical race theory:

http://spacrs.wordpress.com/what-is-critical-race-theory/

“Go and say your prayers you piece of S,,, America has done a lot of good in the world.”

Steven you absolute plank.. I don’t pray!!! The revolutionist is a secular atheist. The US has NOT done a lot of good, it was killed hundreds of thousands of innocents. Hang your head in shame for defending such a regime.

Petr, yes I’m on twitter and only because this iPad won’t post from Facebook. So your a secular atheist. How about being a human petr?

Steven, don’t mind petr. He’s just full of it. He’s an extreme left wing socialist and now he’s a secular atheist. I wonder what he will be next week?

Every socialist is a secular atheist, Deco, you gobshyte.

Ryan, an RPG is a rocket propelled grenade and is fired off the shoulder, nothing to do with aircraft! They are a Russian weapon and are used worldwide by terrorists.

Jillian, is that Virginia in co Cavan

Nah… I’m one of those damn yanks ;) haha

Lol, Glen!

Ha glen you were saying you cocky dublin plonker

Sorry Petr. Must have been a fascist conspiracy