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A COMPLAINT AGAINST a Newbridge ad promoting its eShe Jewellery range has been upheld by the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland (ASAI).
The ASAI said that the advertisement in question featured model Roz Purcell posing in “sensual” ways while wearing clothing that was “predominantly low cut and revealing”.
The woman who complained about the imagery used in the online video said the ad objectified women and was “promoting women in a sexual way rather than promoting the jewellery”.
In the ASAI’s latest complaints bulletin, the organisation detailed the scenes in the ad that gave rise to the complaint.
“One of the scenes in question featured the model wearing a kimono which was open to, and tied at, the waist together with one of the neck pieces from the range. She was partially draped backwards, leaning on a table with one leg raised as if perched on a stool, whilst holding onto a ceiling lamp with her head tilted backwards.
In another scene, the model was sitting on a couch wearing a strapless yellow dress and two of the neck pieces. While both her legs were not visible in the scene it was obvious that they were spread apart as one leg was visible as it was raised into the camera range. The model was shown drinking a cocktail and at one stage she dips her finger into the cocktail and licks her finger.
Newbridge defended the ad, saying it was never their intention to objectify women – the primary target audience for the product range.
[Pic: YouTube]
In explaining its decision to uphold the complaint, the ASAI cite three sections of the Standards in Advertising Code, including section 2.19 which states: "Advertisers should take account of public sensitivities in the preparation and publication of marketing communications and avoid the exploitation of sexuality and the use of coarseness and undesirable innuendo. They should not use offensive or provocative copy or images merely to attract attention."
Newbridge stated that they did not believe the campaign had caused widespread offence.
Consumer complaints were upheld against numerous companies including eircom, Sky Ireland, Aer Lingus and eFlow. Industry complaints were upheld against Daft.ie, the Paragon Bar & Nightclub and Molson Coors.
The complaints made against eircom and Sky Ireland related to honesty. Two people complained about an eircom ad promoting their superfast broadband.
One complainant considered that the small print used in the advertisement, which notified consumers that the advertised price was a promotional price for six months only, was very small. He noted that the contract was for 18 months which meant that the actual monthly cost of the bundle for the duration of the contract was €50 per month.
He thought that the claim to have the “best value bundle” at €30 was misleading. He also considered that the voiceover should have made reference to the price after the promotional period.
The second complainant considered that the practice of a headline offer price which was then contradicted by the small print was misleading.
The advertisers noted that their 30 second television advertisement clearly stated in print “price after promotion €60 a month” which was on screen for 8 seconds. They considered that this was sufficient for the average consumer to see and read.
Text size was also an issue in relation to a Sky Ireland leaflet about its Digital TV service, which was delivered to homes by An Post. Terms and Conditions related to the offer were listed in full in a small script in grey font on a white background.
In this instance, the complainant stated that he had difficulty reading the T&Cs with his reading glasses. He also considered that the text size was too small and may lead to some consumers signing up to the service without being able to read the terms and conditions.
Sky Ireland stated that the font style and size used in the advertising was Sky Text size 5.5. They considered that the industry standard for small print was on average between point size 4 and 4.5 and they therefore the small print in their advertisement was larger than average. They added that the font should have been clearly visible to a "normally-sighted person".
An industry complaint was upheld against property website Daft.ie. Rival website MyHome.ie claimed that Daft.ie could not state it was “1st for buying, selling and renting in [for example, Dublin 2]”.
MyHome.ie made reference to the ASAI Code which states: “A claim that any product is superior to others should only be made where there is clear evidence to support the claim. Wording which implies superior or superlative status such as “number one”, “leading”, “largest” and the like should be capable of substantiation with market share data or similar proof.”
The advertisers contended that their claim to be “1st for buying, selling and renting” in certain areas was substantiated by having the most number of properties available in those respective areas.
The advertisements against which complaints were upheld cannot reappear in their current form.
Daft.ie, part of the Distilled Media Group. Journal Media Ltd has shareholders - Brian and Eamonn Fallon - in common with Distilled Media Group.
Read: Ads in breach: Small print from Three, bad coverage from eMobile, indecency from The Wright Venue
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Why should Germany help when we pay our senior civil servants more than the Germans do? If Enda cut his pay to 100k or so and applied the same across the board then we could ask for debt relief.
There is this thing in a country called a cost of living, if the private sector started reducing prices perhaps then that would be justified. It’s cheaper to live, eat and sleep in Germany, plus we are not asking them to pay our public sector – we are asking them to remove a debt we never incurred! With bull talk like yours you play right into their hands! What we pay anyone is irrelevant, the debt IS NOT OURS!
I agree Diarmaid but saying that I think limiting public sector salary to twice the national average wage would be a good thing to introduce.
Help us?
Well for a start it was Frau Merkel who contributed greatly to Ireland being froze out of the markets with her very public comments suggesting we couldn’t afford to pay debt as a result our ill conceived bank bailout which lead us to full capitulation to the IMF/EU/ECB and all to prevent contagion and protect German tax payers from carrying the losses of their own banks.
We’re not looking for help, we’re looking for fairness and an acknowledgement that the debt burdened upon us is unsustainable and we shouldn’t have being forced to adopt them.
we have already been told NO why would anyone think any different..its not father Ted and Mrs.Doyle saying gowan gowan gowan and eventually give in
@Paul Absolutely 100% agree with that.
That’s too generalised. Cost of grocers, electronics goods are cheaper; services like insurance and pension plans are more expensive. Taxes are higher. Landlines are cheaper, mobile phones and mobile network charges are higher. Rent in Germany is lpwer, but not by much as rents are spiralling upwards. Wages are lower. The average employed German worker is not significantly better off than the average employed Irish worker.
Merkel doesn’t have to bail out banks because we, and the other PIIGS are stopping the contagion by doing the job for her. German banks have huge exposure to investments in these countries. If we were to let the banks go to the wall, then German banks would collapse too and they’d be in need of a bailout. So it is her problem and we deserve some recognition that we’re in the front-line blocking this contagion from spreading to Germany. We’re doing them a service and the Germans and the other “safe” countries should recognise this.
A deal?
No, not with our weak leaders.
No. We need to follow the icelandic route and burn the bondholders. Why should we pay private bank debt to bail out the German and French banks?
Eaten bread is soon forgotten, eh Angela?
Ireland’s been stitched up like a kipper.
Because if the bigger economys fail. Who do we sell are goods too?
Iceland is 15 times smaller than Ireland and they’re not in the Eurozone.
Apples and Oranges to compare the two.
we can folow the icelandic route and pull out of the Euro burn the bondholders and jail the bankers
As Mark said, Germany’s reaching the point, or has already reached, the point of being over-extended. If Greece and Ireland default, this could collapse Germany and, if Germany collapses, we all go under. It’s not about following orders or being a lapdog, it’s about not burning the house down because we’re given a crappy room. I’m not saying do nothing, but defaulting will hurt us more than it would help us.
I still don’t understand where all the money has gone……..64 billion has gone into the banks but where is it? I just don’t understand.
Someone said to reduce pay to 100 000 but I think 100 000 is a ridiculous amount for politicians to be paid in the current circumstances. It is absurd and it is obscene and I don’t care about the bank debt or the negotiations or any of that. They are getting way too much money and people are starting to get really pissed off with the the injustice of it all. It’s ridiculous.
…And another minimum 18 Billion next year is going to the banks and bondholders next year too!
Enda and company are blowing smoke up … This deal is already agreed enda is playing politics. When the deal is eventually announced we will all shout ” and what a good boy was he”
The only people benefiting from austerity are bond holders. The people will be saddled with this debt to the firing end. A bad deal for generations
Either way, we’re still all going to be screwed!!!! But not in a good way :(
They’ll give something that looks like it has substance and will appease some but will turn out longer term to be utterly worthless.
You know what the Germans, Dutch and Finns say: “oh… Should the rest of us pay more tax to give them a handout then?”
They use your own logic, so why you of all people expect a handout is beyond me!
Exactly.
It’s a case of seeing how long this particular can will survive being kicked up the road or remain whole for the FG/Lab spin machine.
Damocles,
Agree with that. The question is what will we be asked to give up to get it?
“why you of all people expect a handout”
I don’t expect a handout. I expect that European politicians will offer some sort of sop that looks like it has substance and will appease some but will turn out longer term to be utterly worthless.
“The question is what will we be asked to give up to get it?”
Ireland can’t get something for nothing. However, if what I suspect is right, Ireland will get nothing for something.
Correct. I think we’ve been here before. Several times. Vote yes for jobs anyone?
@Mark, how about we stop giving them hand outs as a start, and take if from there.
What makes the whole “it’s not our debt” pretty much useless as a negotiating chip is that the average German, Finn or Netherlander will say that’s not their debt either, and the’d be just as correct as the Irish. Talking about the banking debt in terms of nationality is a non-starter, but we had a government who framed it in those terms by agreeing to nationalise it. Why should taxpayers from other nationalities on their shoulders? That’s no better over all, it’s helping the Irish by screwing another nationality…
@Paul: we don;t pay Merkel handouts, we pay bondholders. We borrow Merkel’s borrowed money to do this.
65% procent of this country agreed on doing so, but somehow people still expect a deal.
I just think sheep don’t get deals, they get slaughtered.
Back up a wee bit there Mark, when did 65% of people vote to pay these debts?
When was this held, did you vote yes?
Perhaps you already forgotten/blocked out the referendum earlier this year?
If there was ever a point to stop this government blindly following the previous one, that was it.
But people voted and now will have to live with the consequences.
Very true Nikolas, and Mark. I’m just extremely frustrated at the whole thing. I don’t expect any reasonable deal to to come from this at all. It seems there’s no such thing as a bad investment for big business any more. They’ll just bleed each economy dry in turn.
Take a look at this rare species:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP9ZdeXRNYg
@Dermot, I think Mark is referring to the recent referendum on the ESM.
oops, beat me to it Mark, forgot to submit my reply after I wrote it. :-D
Ahh ok, the ESM treaty…..yeah the people who promoted that and dressed it up as something which would alleviate our burden should beginwalking the country knocking at every door and apologise for being such s***heads.
The only people benefiting from austerity are bond holders. The people will be saddled with this debt to the bitter end. A bad deal for generations
It wont be until Merkel is re-elected (?) which is October 2013, that we will we get any debt written off.She is playing the “we will make the paddies pay” card so the German public feel they are not letting another Greece off the hook! We will pay back around another €15-20 billion in the meantime before we get any deal.Kenny will get a paltry deal around early 2014 and will have 2 years to make some progress, which he will milk to his political gain in the 2016 general elections.Meanwhile, the Irish man and woman will have a succession of ludicrous budgets taxing the sh*t out of us and further ruining our services while the elitists(political/banking classes) remain comfortable..all in all..we lose and they win!In 2020, we will be out of recession in the EU but we will own nothing in our own state (oil/gas/forests/water etc), we will be paying private companies huge profits for everything from water to healthcare to education (in some cases we already are!)!This “downturn” was well organised by the largest banks and their political puppets,and this is becoming ever more evident… daily.
there is not a chance with of any deal on this with the current governments in power, they have given priority to the bond holders over their people, and will do anything necessary to pay them, the big question is WHY?
The German people dont want to pay what they see as our debt( even though it is THEIR banks that are being repaid and we dont want to pay(quite correctly) meanwhile our country hands over all our natural resources and everything else we have (gas, oil, water, fish, wages, home tax etc etc, ) to pay this illegal enforced debt, our current government is facilitating this even though they were elected to stop it, its an unbelievably corrupt situation that could eventually lead to a war in Europe. Lets hope that we can get true democracy back for the people of Europe soon
Gary
I don’t see why everybody is continually insisting that the Bondholders are German and French when Irish Pension Funds were massively invested in the Banks. My own Pension bought Bonds from AIB on three occasions after the Bailout . That makes me a Bondholder and burning them would not just be a blind kick at an assumed enemy.
The anti German rhetoric on this site is appalling and you can be certain that they know about it and ask more penetrating questions about the Irish on a regular basis. I belong to a business network based in Mannheim and all of my contacts ask why they should give us more money since we regard them as Nazis. To modern Germans that is the most unacceptable insult and slur.
Do you ever ask your German contacts if they thinks it’s fair we are paying losses their banks accrued through reckless gambling here Paddy?
Do you ever ask them how they felt being called the sick man of Europe not so long ago and the rest of us bent over backwards to facilitate them?
While your at it ask them if they fully appreciate the turmoil created here as a result of these debts and if they wouldn’t mind would they agree to take theirs back.
@paddy I agree that the anti German attitude it wrong and I understand how they would be offended and question why should they be asked to help….but similarly the reality is that the euro “bailout” was in fact a way to put major debts onto the shoulders of the Irish people , and a very large amount of the credit was actually German and French financed credit , so your friends in Germany need it explained why people in Ireland are so annoyed , because as things stand we are signed up to pay these unsustainable debts for a generation.The euro currency project was built with poor architecture , driven by Germany and France in particular , yet to expect a small country like to to to able to pay that level of deb of debt to fix the crisis is just unsustainable.We don’t all think they are nazi , but we need to do a better job getting them to understand exactly what it is we have been asked to do….all in the name of preventing contagion and damaging German and French banks. The so called ” bailout” is nothing more than a further loan to repay money back that is already lost…with interest…it is not as portrayed us begging for the Germans to give us their hard earned cash…..it’s a loan and its unsustainable.
God forbid we would upset German (or any EU) sensibilities! Like you Paddy I’m glad they came along and gave us someone to tug our forelocks to now that the British and the Church are not so dominant in our lives.
Bailing out the corrupt EU financial system seems a small price to pay to feel so wanted.
“I’m glad they came along and gave us someone to tug our forelocks to now that the British and the Church are not so dominant in our lives.”
Did you not go to them? No one made Ireland take the Euro.
True, no one made Ireland take the Euro. Don’t recall the bit about us taking on the debts of private Euro banks though.
blah blah blah useless government trying to make it look like they are doing something good for the country… They do not care about the people of ireland and are too busy with pr spin to actually do something productive.
No. Why would the EU make any changes seeing they are constantly being told by Enda & Co that Ireland is doing brilliantly?
The statement from Frau Merkel and Enda means nothing it’s just hot air.
Not our debt #notourdebt
An Taoiseach is not looking for a write down of the bank debt either. He said so in the Dail. He wants to be able to pass on these debt to our grandchildren and great grand children.
Also anytime he takes a trip to Europe he puts his large foot in his mouth. He blamed the economic disaster that is Ireland on the people of Ireland and described them as having lost the run of themselves … a few weeks before that he blamed the banks and Fianna Fail!
Go figure!
yes we will get a deal but it is all politics look at the history of the E.U. we have done very well out of. it will take time but it is all down to politics – even Sinn Fein have discovered this in the last ten years politics
but the question is what kind of deal and at what cost and how long will this take, Kenny and co dont have the ability or the stomache let alone the balls to do this
I believe our representatives will fight it out to the best of THEIR ability, with the result being doubling our debt and us loosing Longford, Leitrim and West Meath.
Throw in Cavan as well…
More bluster from Noonan and Kenny. Huge disappointment after pats on the back and kisses.Were only special because we’ve stayed so calm and nice. Very sad.
Dermot
Germans were never reckless gamblers as you put it. They lent overnight monies to Irish Banks regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland and assumed they were dealing with people of integrity and honour as would be the case in Austria or France or Holland etc.
What they didn’t know is that Fianna Fail ignored the regulation of Banking and Sean Fitz crept on to the scene and AIB with BofI felt they had to compete.
You see there were people like that arch hypocrite Shane Ross at the time telling us all to pile into Anglo and he even demanded that Fitzpatrick be appointed Head of the Central Bank!
In all those circumstances how could the Germans or anybody else know they were dealing with incompetents or rogues.
Our Banks under the control of our Central Bank and monies lent to Irish people and somehow we want to say its Germany’s fault and problem!
I think we need to grow up.
I find your anti-Irish rhetoric offensive.
Your assertion is that we were somehow conniving, sly and lacking integrity, we conspired to lure foreign banks to invest here knowing they would fail but we’d scam some money of them before the fall but we were found out and now we must pay the piper, them poor Germans eh?
You constantly play down the fact that German banks….(along with many more nations)……invested here and the consequence for us – the Irish – is that once that investment turned sour we are obliged to carry the losses.
Frau Merkel understood, it’s why she interfered in our sovereignty making public her doubts about our financial responsibilities, she knew that unless we undertook a bank bailout her country would be forced to cover the losses on their own banks, we’re paying for our banks and our politicians stupidity, it’s high time they done the same.
Dermot – you yourself have been pushing the “Dishonest and conniving Irish government” line for a while now. The Germans are no angels, and neither are we. It’s never so simple as to be reduced to “Two legs bad, four legs good” Personally. I think applying nationality as distinguishing the perpetrators from the victims is probably the most unhelpful and damaging mistake made over the last four years.
Yes because if we don’t we’ll probably end up having to get another bailout and that is not what the EU wants. The EU wants Ireland back in the markets and not relying on the ESM because otherwise it will undermine everything that the EU has said it wants countries to do to solve their debt problems. The main worry that the markets’ have is Ireland’s debt sustainability so that debt needs to be lowered so that our debt to GDP ratio is more reasonable. Therefore it is in the EU’s interest the ensure that the debt level is lowered.
I suspect that the Anglo debt will not be written down and some mechanism will be found to replace the promissary notes issue which is a major problem but some of the AIB/BOI debt will probably be transferred to the ESM in some way that allows everybody to claim something.
Sounds about right; although I could imagine a case where the AIB/BOI repayments could be held back and used as funds to get the banks lending to SMEs and mortgage applicants to promote growth.
There could be something in that alright.. At the moment we are the poster boys for the bailout programme and if we go to the wall or need another bail out then they can’t point to us and say “look, Ireland did it so you should too” to Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal.
Still, I voted “Don’t know” because there’s just as much reason to think that whatever deal they give us will be literally just enough to keep us afloat and no more, maybe not even that, it might just be spreading the payments out over a longer period and prolonging the misery.. We shall just have to wait and see.
Merkel’s statement over the weekend should be seen as nothing more than an attept to help stabilise the Irish bond yield.
Why stabilise the bond yield? To get us to a point ASAP where we are not reliant on the EU/IMF intervention.
We’re not getting a deal.
Lot of negative doom & gloom people on this morning !
It’s called reality! Lot of people living it day to day
It’s called reality! Lot of people living it day to day
No.
It’s the calm before the storm!!
Yep, when all the state assets are sold and their neoliberal agenda is complete.
Rte will announce another 1,000 jobs to keep up all quiet .
I voted no… However I do think we will get a deal but it will be a token/poultry deal. Enough to say we got a deal and the governments across Europe to part themselves on the back for but enough to keep us ( Irish ppl) on are knees as beggars an poverty stricken ppl for decades to come…
Enda will do whatever he’s told.
All talk & no action .. No action will be taken… Enda is clutching at straws… nothing is going to change..We are laden with ?64 billion of debt….END OFF…
Ah well sure there it is….we can all go home now… Gabriel knows it all…. I keep feeling that people on here and SF in particular dont want a success story with regard to the debt…They want the Irish people suffer even more…prehaps the belief is that it will fuel some sort of revolution….
No we won’t. But Enda is using the vague messages to suit himself. Merkel being vague to keep a hardline at home for the elections next year and also picking up the phone and lying to kenny ( who would believe absolutely anything) to keep him towing the line and spinning the same fantasy here at home. The main purpose is to pull the wool over our eyes and keep us in line trying to persuade us we will get a deal when we will not. This was mentioned in June. Now Its almost November and no deal even on the horizon. Its just all a ploy and tactic and we are being abused as they are not telling us the truth. Liars all of them and if anyone still believes them they need to take a good long look in the mirror and ask themselves why do they want to remain blind. The truth is impossible to get from any of them.
Rte will announce another 1,000 jobs to keep us all quiet .
we were never going to get a deal on debt….. it just bull shite talk to lead us down the path to believe that we will get a deal….all designed to keep the people quite and all the while the debt is being paid off… why would we get a deal when we are and have paid back so much already…. attitudes in Europe would change if we had a leader who would say Enough is Enough and when he says not another red cent…he actually means it…..
we need to stop fooling ourselves and being the good little people of Europe and stand up Pull the plug on this farce…. there is no European Union and this Euro currency was a MASSIVE mistake…..
all central banks eu/imf want as many countries to be indebted to them as possible as part of a banking global domination plan that started way back even in napoleonic times. the fed owns America and all its puppets whether on right side or left side of house and we’re their lap dogs now too. Hollande has the stones but he’ll be put in his place too by powerful forces that won’t stand for his defiance. its all coming folks. stock up on gold silver and tinned goods now.
Buy beans!!!!
One way ticket to Barter Town with Tina and Mel
Merkel wants to be re-elected, so no deal before that and very little after. I doubt it will happen, they’ll make it to qualifying for pensions in February and an election will be called! If they make it past the budget?
Actually Merkel needs an Irish success story to help her win the elections next year. It justifies her austerity stance. Spain on the other hand are unlikely to get any deal beforehand.
If they’re only in it for the money then it’d be best to stay until the end of the Dáil term and then collect their pensions.
And Merkel isn’t up for election for another year. A deal is due before the end of this year.
Pensions for Ministers after 2 years,two years are up in Feb 2013.A Merkal up for election in 2013.
Ireland are good boys and girls and Mr. Kenny is getting a pat on the head for being a good school prefect!
In this game good finishes last and get screwed royally along the way.
It might suite the 4th Reich, oops I mean the EU where each country is treated fairly, to maybe give us extra time to pay the money we used to pay them as bondholders! We are an enslaved people and with the German pay masters calling for a Currency Commissioner who can over ride national budgets Fine Gael will be breaking another election promise by signing over our national sovereignty permanently, while arguing that it will save the nation. Well played political class of Ireland. While taking from the trough you have ensured an enslaved Ireland to the European Reich.
Paddy a question how many names do you use?Must be hard trying to keep up with the writing style of each,your begining to slip.Anyway your point would have more weight if you dropped the insults and personnel attacks.Further up you said you were part of a business group.I don’t believe you because your interpersonnel skills are appalling.
Paddy,
Reich is a German controlled area. It is not a reference to what Hitler did that was a horrid crime and cannot be defended.
The EU at present seems to be controlled by Germany. This can be seen in the handling of the economic crisis to date. Nothing gets done unless it benefits Germany.
Germany are threatening to call of EU budget rescission unless the UK get in line.
Germany wants to set up a Currency Commissioner with the power to veto National Budgets unless they meet standards.
You say I am clueless and should refrain from commenting, attacking the person rather than my point of view. Can you answer my points?
“In this game good finishes last and get screwed royally along the way.”
Not entirely unexpected.
Work hard, pay your mortgage and stay out of arrears and your reward is to continue to work hard, pay your mortgage and stay out of arrears, while dwelling in the joy of negative equity, whereas if you do get into arrears a load of help appears … free legal advice, write downs, and so on.
So with Ireland, the country works, pulls its socks up and starts to grow so no help needed. Greece on the other hand …
Of course that’s a very loose and generalised analogy.
Stop being an arse with your 4th Reich babble. It’s not a replacement for an actual argument.
The argument is at present the EU is Germany’s way or well Germany’s way. They are trying to bully the UK now.
Also you calling me an arse is no argument either, so my argument still stands, also when you attack the person and not their argument, right or wrong as it may be, you open yourself up for attack but I am above that. If you want a debate, fine, but stick to the issues not personal attacks.
But I’m not presenting an argument, I’m trolling. I’ll happily call anyone an arse, irrespective of politics, nationality, colour, sex or creed, but I’d never call a person a Nazi arse. I’m an equal-opportunity troll, not a xenophobic and sloppily-labelling one. We differ there.
I did not call anyone a Nazi. Reich has to do with a Greater Germany. It must be remembered there were two Reich periods before Hitler’s maddness and like I have already said his actions and the actions of his followers can not in any way be defended. They were physical crimes against a few races but they represent an evil towards all nations and all peoples.
Troll if you must but troll against bad arguments not against people.
Nein!
This poll should have been phrased ‘ Do you believe the Government Spin about the Bank Debt ? ‘
The system of austerity will always have these wild cards to use when the time is right! This is a load of crap!!!
The longer Kenny and his FG/Lab cohorts play the forelock tugging, charity seeking, impoverished peons meekly seeking help instead of standing up and denouncing the barbaric imposition of foreign debts on us and demanding those countries whose banks losses we’re currently covering start accepting the reality of it the further this can will be kicked down the road.
Why should we expect help when FG have readily accepted and assured the world that these debts are ours 100% and we will pay them back???
This is all a bit of a con, the June statement was deliberately ambiguous and open to interpretation. This meant that Kenny and Gilmore could come back and talk up the deal saying it was a game changer etc. equally the Germans and others could say it doesn’t relate to legacy debt, which means it changes nothing for us.
This weekend we have the same mixed messages and lack of clarity, as Gaybo would say, something for everyone in the audience.
The bottom line is that this is a deliberate con so that everyone can go back to their own parliament and put whatever spin is needed to appease their electorate but no real deal or decision has been made. We are being played here!!!
I voted no because I know the deal I want, which is a write off and a refund of monies already spent, is not the deal that our traitorous government will be satisfied.
You can want all you like. I want a sports car and a prettier girlfriend. Wanting on it’s own never made anything happen except disappointment.
I think we will get a deal, but it wont be any where near what we need, it’ll be the scraps from the table, and they’ll make us think we should be grateful for it. It’s propaganda again, take away all hope say no and then when we give them a lousy deal the people will be grateful for it. Just like the budget, leak terrible cuts to the media and then when they aren’t quiet as severe the people will be happy to accept what the government are really going to do. It’s a way of controlling the masses.
I think we’ll get a deal after other more important countries get one then FG/Lab can spin the spin that they’re absolute beasts in negotiating with our…. lol – EU partners.
Rope a Dope then bang .Michael Collins said before he decided to get moving on his own “The Irish are too careful and cautious” so he just went ahead and did what was necessary.People that have been duped by politicians should just give up the ghost now and start focusing on what needs to be done to try and rescue some sort of country out of the hands of a select view that tricked their way into power.Them and their Banker buddies are a part of a syndicate that has one objective and that is to steal the wealth of the nation plain and simple even the loyalist t these traitors must see things for what they are if you still have not then you are a part of the problem.Drip feeding bad news is a tried an tested technique.Promise and renege and promise straight away again a buying time excercise but not for negotiations but to extend Government policy which is to fleece the people and ride off into the sunset.If Enda Kenny Merkel Honahan says something do we automatically believe them ..Majority does.Problem huge problem.We are being decieve’d and anyone who still really thinks their doing their best to fix this problem is under a spell or is in a protective coma .Were being played the biggest bailout in history for a country this size .Question for the Irish people .Do you really care about yourself family home neighbours country living right living free .If you do cop on and stop being so gullible your making it easy for them and if something is wrong try and contribute to making it right have a look who’s been selling you to a Bank for the last 10 yrs are we a country of spineless selfish fools wake up.STOP THE ROT.
It’s a fair comment but Sinn Fein have not shown any thing new, they should make it clear what would they do, until now they have being playing the position of a very week opposition Party, what is there agenda, at moment all people see is opportunistic politics with no ground and no real backbone….
And just who would you offer as strong opposition Ciaran?
Please don’t say FF as they’re utterly clueless and it’s quite surreal for them to be offering solutions to a problem of their making.
I’m bookmarking this page for reference points for next years debate on whether we’ll have a debt deal or not.
For a country like Ireland to shoulder the weight of the banking debt with scant recognition or reward is a crime. If back in 2008 we were bounced into saving the euro banks then they should bounce us out of it now. We saved the euro banking system ffs.
Mad as hell like everybody else but to believe we will get €billions in a thank you from Germany or anywhere else is not going to happen. It’s not like those with the cash view us as worthy of a dig out, on the contrary they see us as sheep who reward ourselves handsomely from the public purse. We are seen as leeches with an insatiable appetite for other people’s money. We need to wake up, we are saddled with it and now we pay the price for not managing our affairs.
Enda is being treated like the little kitten he is by Merkal, she dangles the string and little soft Enda waggles his arse and tries to catch it, only to find that Merkal has pulled the string away at the last moment, leaving Enda looking around and wondering where it went .
Enda Kenny does not have the balls to stand up to Merkal and the euro-crates, we needed a strong forceful leader and instead we got a kitten. Merkal and Enda will play ‘ cat and mouse’ with the Irish people until after the budget , making promises and giving us hope of a deal only to pull the rug from under our feet once they get their budget through , a budget that is going to force 1000′s more Irish families into poverty, lead to even more emigration and job losses, repossessions and sadly suicides . then Enda will curl up on his mistresses lap and be told what a good little kitty he is.
what would you do Eric? Usual j.ie stuff…complain and yet sit on fence…. I am certain that Mr Kenny and Mr Noonan do want a reduction in debt!!! Why would they not?? But maybe they should walk in and put a gun to Merkals head!!!!
To be honest, I think we will get a deal. And I think that this government has done a good job to, at least try, change the course of the crisis in Ireland. We really were on the brink. Enda is an intelligent man who does have respect across Europe.
The pressure anyone in government must be under when faced with paying a bond holder to ensure the future viability of a country, or close some local service must be unimaginable. People personify Enda as if he were setting in an office stroking a cat, deciding whether to close a hospital or cut welfare; it’s complicated, there will be pain, it’s not always fair, but it’s not about me or you, it’s about all of us as a collective. And I think what Enda and his government are doing is good for Ireland.
I agree with some of what you say,but your last paragraph i’m afraid your way.You see us all as a collective.Do you think your local TD is suffering the same way as your elderly neighbour whom had their home help cut.As for respect for Enda, why does Angela pull the carpet out from under him.Lets not even dicuss him having his hair ruffled.
no i
sorry I fat fingered the above comment. but no, I don’t think that politicians are suffering as much as the elderly, but I don’t believe that is solely due to Enda and his government. politicians are paid a lot more than the elderly, so when
I’m having a houler today! no I don’t think that politicians are suffering as much as the elderly, but that is because when cuts are applied to both of their respective salaries, those with more money cope better. But I don’t believe that we should remove the meritocracy in our culture, as some of the ‘tax the millionaires’ do. I don’t claim to have the answers for how to achieve financial targets while preserving a standard of living, but I don’t get paid for that, nor do I have to receive criticism from a vast majority of the population such as politicians do.
Stewart i’m sorry you’ve rubbished your own claim “we are a collective”.A collective assumes all members are equal and work for the good of the collective as a whole.This is one discription that definitely does not apply to Irish society.
I haven’t rubbished any argument. by collective, I mean we as a society must work towards making and sustaining a minimum standard of living. Yes this is under threat in Ireland as there are too many people living in poverty, but a least some of this was caused by international and rogue national factors. I believe that Enda and his government are trying (not totally succeeding) to fix this, and reinstill our sense of a collective. We appear to be just getting over the initial shock, now we must look after everyone in society, and that won’t be solved by cutting politicians wages, nor will it be solved just by keeping a local hospital open, its much bigger than that. we are a collective. We work together for the betterment of everyone, not bring everyone down to the lowest common wage.
No we won’t get any deal, this is just a dance around the garden to soften the blow so ye public are half expecting it anyway when it happens. Therefore we won’t march or riot etc…..
Typical crap from a crap government.
the same countries saying no to a better deal are the same ones who recklessly lent money to our reckless banks and bznkrup us all. we should default on those loans and bonds
its getting embarrassing now seeing enda with cap in hand to Europe . we need some positive news no more spin
The debt is ours, they know and so do we, and nobody will give us anything without us paying a price. It’s the price that we are talking about and how many generations will bear it. Just like the Germans don’t forgettable 1930s, we will never forget this either.
Well into next year and they’ll have qualified for pensions by then, what a failure and let down this has been! Get out, Get out, and get out of Government you shower of muppets!
Before we proceed any further we need a full and definitive list of all the bondholders whom we are paying this money to, then we can decide who really is legitimate and who is not.
Its amazing that this information is not common knowledge? You would think if your paying somebody billions that you would know who they are at the very least?
This should be front page news daily until we get an answer, it will also highlight to the european people who we are repaying
A general question on the bank bail-outs:
Is it the general view here that AIB, BOI, Permanent TSB should have not been recapitalised and therefore forced into bankruptcy (thats what happens when bondholders are not paid)?
Or is it the view that it is Germany’s and Europe’s sole responsibility to maintain the solvency of these Irish banks on the basis that other banks in those countries hold their debt?
For me the reality is somewhere in between – the benefits of bailing out and maintaining these banks, like it or not, is to the benefit of both the Irish economy and also European stability. The general practice of protecting bondholders who took risks is I believe flawed and contrary to the European free market principle but if its seen as a practical ‘lesser evil’ of having a funcitoning banking system and protecting European stability then the burden of this should be shared.
I hope and expect that this will ultimately happen but not quickly.
Reading a lot of the comments about this topic here the prevailing view seems quite extreme and implies that either (a) we should liquidate the banks (and therefore have no functioning domestic banks) or (b) that the full cost of recapitalising them is borne by Europe alone.
Both I think are unrealistic and therefore the objective should be to achive the best or ‘least worse’ deal possible.
How about this,the banks should have been forced to realise the losses first,then recapitalise where apprioate.
BTW you asked before who made A Merkel leader of Europe.She answered your question last Friday,she did and no one is calling her up on it including Enda.
Gagsy, the main consensus whether people agree or not is that this debt is not solely ours, we shouldered it to protect the euro, the euro project and the entire stability of European banking.
Any deal should conclude with the admission of this fact, an apology and reparations for the damage done to date.
Gagsy, I think the strength of feeling from the saner elements is that loans to privately owned banking bodies should not be conflated with loans to sovereign bodies. Which is fine as far as it goes. Unfortunately here the state owns these same banking bodies, so this raises the question of whether that portion of the loan should remain “sovereigntised”. If the state owns much of the bank does it own the debt?
Have only one bank. Let the others go. Like it or not we have a small population and we should let them go to the wall.
Then try the mangers, regulators and political elite for neglect, fraud and over charging people to fund their golden payment and pension pots.
@Damocles – A state-owned bank is not necessarily a state-guaranteed bank so there is no legal obligation by virtue of state ownership to make good defaulted liabilities of these banks unless it has otherwise explicitly committed to do so.
That these banks continue to pay their liabilities is a necessity of staying in existence – ie when people complain about the disgrace of paying bond holders the alternative is for banks to go into liquidation. I believe that is a simple reality.
So the continuing support given at least to the pillar banks is an imperfect solution which sticks in the craw given that without state support the banks would collapse and the bond holders would have justifiably absorbed much of the losses. But, to use the awful cliche that ‘we are where we are’ the debate should move to how this burden of maintaining the banks is shared. And my main point here is that it is not reasonable to expect that this is fully the cost of Germany and Europe.
@Norman – what do you mean realise the losses first? At any point in time a bank can only estimate the extent of their likely credit losses.
Sweden done it worked for them.But our clever TDs voted for the worst possible course of action.The banks should have been allowed to suffer their losses then recapitalise as necessary.
Fair enough, Gagsy, state owned is not state guaranteed as you suggest, although there is a state guarantee, should that be abandoned? I don’t know. I do know that any organisation that fail to pay its debts that it has agreed to pay finds borrowing money later tricky.
Many people point to Sweden but overlook the relative size of the problem and the fact that many of the Swedish solutions haven’t been done in Europe and won’t and that Sweden didn’t look for outside money in any way close to the degree that Europe has.
Merkel is leader if Europe by default, as no-one else took the reins or challenged her when she did so. By that logic, she deserves less blame for holding an unfairly powerful position than all the other EU leaders.
At this stage, people should be looking beyond this towards early elections. Enda Kenny has failed miserably. Anyone but FF / FG….
You all seem to be missing the point.
Let’s have a look at the political situation..
Labour and Fine Geal will never get a second term in office, so who will the Irish vote for, Fianna fail the old boys club that screwed not alone the country but also every generation that followed ? Or will the country be turned into the hands of Sinn Fein, that would be a total disaster….
The fact is Ireland has no political leadership worth voting for, which means that poeple must take over response ability, the poeple of Ireland need to make it clear to this government that they want a deal that makes their lives easier, or a least there future more certain. Demand and do not wait for the bad or good news to be shoveled to you from RTE or the other media…
The foreign situation, the German people have now idea how things are in Ireland, German people who have something to do with Ireland are informed, they have seen the big houses go up in the boom, the building sites for offices, the prices of things in Ireland and Dublin being described as the youngest city in Europe. They asked them selves how could you borrow more money just because some one speculated that your house is now worth 100000 euros more, how can you borrow more money that you earn and why are the banks offering these conditions. That is the question they ask themselves. Why did some one not pull the plug, the regulator, the government, no the party went on, one drunken orgy of we are the best and nicest people in Europe and there is no tomorrow. That kind of irresponceability would not happen in Germany, not for the man on the street….
What does the man on the street know he knows that Merkel said no to refunding payed debt and that makes sense, the media does not tell them weather Ireland should or should not have paid these debts.
The thing to remember is that the Germans did not vote for Haughty, they did not vote for Ahern and the did not vote for Labour / Fine Geal. The Germans did not build massive houses and borrow money on the speculated value of the house. That was the Irish them selves…
So again take response ability….
What has happened in Ireland regard resistance to austerity, was there mass demonstration, no face book and twitter were busy, the farmers had a massive protest, 5000 people protested in favor for the Quinn family… And as for the guy who stole cornflakes to feed his kids…. He had his moment of fame and is yesterday’s news….
Wake up Ireland and take response ability of what is happening to you…
Everybody says if SF get in power it will be terrible but i say give them a chance to prove themselves they cant be any worse than FF/FG/LAB
IF you want someone to negotiate what is wrong with sending over Sinn Fein who have a track record.The myth is that Sinn Fein will be a disaster ..why.. because someone somewhere high up who’s an expert on these things said so the same gang that ran this country into the ground or gave totally false information time and time again to trap the people of Ireland .Are we still to believe these incompetent fools.The troika comes here on business stoneyfaced hard ball negotiators what do we send up against them Time Magazine model and the likes.If you were the troika and Sinn fein delegates came into the room to negotiate you would think these people are here to defend their country and we wont push them out the door with nothing .They would get more in one meeting than FG/L would sitting on their hand would in a whole term.Merkel Von Rompuy hav Kenny down a lapdog tat wont change so we sit around waiting for mercy rather than elect a party that will fight for us remember while Kenny Martin all the screamers in the Dail where sitting back while the Celtic Tiger was roaring Adams and Sinn Fein were negotiating with Blair Paisley Trimble for equality and a fairer society but we wont listen to SinnFein because were so sophisticated have a look the country its in ruins and a lot more to come so how sophisticated are we really . Listen to people who will fight for you in Europe or just get robbed out of existence. I have no debt but i want to stay i care about what happens to everyone single person in this country we are not divided we just think we are we have to stick together.
@ Well said. Screaming “it’s not fair!” Is pointless, as what’s fair is in the eye of the beholder. The banking debt Ireland took on was a result of a toxic game of pass the parcel, But more importantly, the crisis should be compared to a hospital’s emergency department, not as Solomon’s Court.
Someone sits in an emergency room for six hours with a broken arm. Suddenly, another person is brought in with a spear through their head. This new patient will be treated immediately, the person with the broken arm must wait longer. Is that fair? Not to the man with the broken arm, but it is fair when you consider that there’s little risk that the broken arm will kill him, he’s in a stable condition. The person with the higher risk of death is more unstable, so he takes priority. It also is irrelevant that the man with the broken arm is law-abiding, while the man with the spear though his head is a petty criminal. Is that fair.
It is not fair that Ireland is carrying so much debt, but how is it fairer that a different nation’s taxpayers should take over that debt, or that debt should be reduced, leaving less funds available for countries less stable than Ireland. Ireland is no longer a priority not because we were “good”, but because we are relatively stable, far more stable than other nations. We’re the guy with the problem arm. We’re no longer high risk, and we will be passed over for debt relief as long as Greece and Spain remain unstable.
@ jack Daniels & co
It’s a fair comment but Sinn Fein have not shown any thing new, they should make it clear what would they do, until now they have being playing the position of a very week opposition Party, what is there agenda, at moment all people see is opportunistic politics with no ground and no real backbone….
@ Dermot, no I would not say FF, the political field is empty of talent and honour… It’s like trying to find a ballerina in a ploughing contest ……..
Yes, this government are working full on around the clock to secure a deal and their efforts at home and abroad will not go unnoticed by Europe.
LOL
Its not going unnoticed because we are the laughing stock of Europe and as for their efforts at home they are disgracefully attacking the most vunerable in society as per usual and continually placing people on or below the poverty line but fair play to them according to you ..SHAMEFULL BEHAVIOUR
No-one’s laughing. Long faces all around.
German banks located in Ifsc cost German tax payer 64billion last year,so why would they help us out.we need to get past this stop paying bond holders and start real support of small Irish Business.
In Germany small Business contribute most not big companies like BMW etc.
This realisation that there may be no handouts may give the Current Government the shot in arm needed.
@paul…how do you suggest we get past paying €60 billion? easier said then done, your right on the corporation tax though..the germans hated us for it in the boom years and this is probably why we are being forced to pay..there should be a european wide corporation tax I think..why is it so sacrosanct? if there was a level playing field we would all be happy, the big corporations wouldnt desert the entire EU-they couldnt
Anyone else think of France before their revolution when you think of the state Ireland is in now
I hope I’m not a mushroom
I think we will get a deal, but it wont be any where near what we need, it’ll be the scraps from the table, and they’ll make us think we should be grateful for it. It’s propaganda again, take away all hope, say no and then when we give them a lousy deal the people will be grateful for it. Just like the budget, leak terrible cuts to the media and then when they aren’t quiet as severe the people will be happy to accept what the government are really going to do. It’s a way of controlling the masses.
I’d love to know how they expect the working population of this Island (or the majority of this Island), to be able to pay 64 Billion Euro to keep German banks afloat.
We have approximately 6 million or so people living in Ireland, north and south.
Consider how many in the South are of working age and how many are employed…
That brings the amount of people who’s shoulders are to carry this weight much lower… couldn’t be more than 2 million or so. With 80,000 or so leaving each year to the UK, USA and Australia…
Something has got to give.
A some people are never happy cant wait to see what ye will say when we do get a better deal
have your say