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CATHAL KING, THE Sinn Féin candidate and favourite in the Dublin South-West by-election, has said he will not be paying his water charges and is prepared to go to court over the matter.
King, who is the bookies favourite for the election taking place this day week, told TheJournal.ie this morning that he had returned his Irish Water application form to the company without opening it.
He is operating off the principle of “no contract, no consent” which has been questioned in recent days. The South Dublin county councillor says he is not advising his constituents to do the same as him.
“I’m just telling them what I’ve done,” he said today. “I’ve also told them that I did that in full knowledge that I will probably get an estimated bill, I won’t get an allowance for my two children and I may be brought to court.
“So they’re fully informed of the consequences. It’s having a responsible view on it, rather than telling people what to do it’s informing people.”
His stance differs from that of constituency rival Paul Murphy, the Socialist Party/Anti-Austerity Alliance candidate, who says he is actively encouraging voters to avoid paying water charges by not sending back their application forms with PPS numbers and other details.
“If they are serious about opposition to water charges, they should use their 14 TDs and 159 Councillors to give people confidence to join the boycott, instead of just telling people to vote for them,” Murphy said in a recent statement.
The former MEP told TheJournal.ie today that King’s position is “insufficient” and added: “They should be working to mobilise people power now to defeat it and use their authority, TDs, and councillors to advocate and support non-payment.”
Sinn Féin has pledged to abolish charges if it is in government, making it a red line issue in any coalition negotiations.
That position has been heavily criticised by the government parties with the Fine Gael and Labour candidates in Dublin South-West, Cáit Keane and Pamela Kearns, today questioning where the party would find the money from to implement such measures.
“Where are they going to get the money? If they want to get it by increasing taxes and ensuring self-employed people and employees pay 62 per cent… do we want to go back to the dark old days?” Keane told TheJournal.ie today.
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Simply can’t afford another tax. The cupboard is bare. Even if I agreed with this ludicrous charge, I ain’t got the money… They can go *#!*…..
It’s funny how Sinn Fein are against water charges ( even tho we already pay for our water ) but not it seems against Irish water Ltd , you can not be in favour of non payment of water charges , and not against the company set up to collect them , our water services must be returned to the control of our elected councils . I think SF Will be hit as hard as the rest , FF , FG and labour , if they do not now come out and call for the abolition of Irish water Ltd ., it’s very name makes me feel like I need a bath
So, you’re not into keeing irish water but non-profit and in permanent control of the Irish people, the domestic charge done away with, and the supply of water being centralised and efficient. You’d rather waste the taxpayer money already spent and then spend more handing it back over to each authority but with no actual benefit to the ordinary person?
splitting hairs there a bit
@ K O B
I agree Keith .. .. SF are saying nothing concrete at all.. i am having second thoughts about them… Irish Water must be abolished……. i think they maybe be like they other parties after all….
Of course they are Keith, doing the same as any previous government, spouting lies to get votes and get in and then turn the minute they’re in there, big wages, expenses and bloated pensions is all they’re interested in
First class flights to Australia? Oops, forgot I wasn’t in Government yet. Pink faced.
not at all Brendan Enda making creating more than enough blushes for us all during the week….. I note your silence all week in regard to Enda strokes and Fianna Fail style cronysm
Water will cost 900 per year before tax. In the future it will cost 800 or 1600 per year before tax.
Not much to say Caoimhin, I think the behaviour of all concerned speaks for itself.
If we were in the UK they would all have had to resign, up to and including Enda. Now that would be really taking responsibility, not like the mealy mouthed platitudes we have been subjected to this week.
Be more than just a keyboard warrior: Let your voices be heard at the national demonstration against water charges on Saturday, October 11th at 2pm. It kicks off from the Garden of Remembrance in Dublin
Aren’t SF keyboard warriors though?
They’ll say they are against water charges, but they won’t make a stand and openly tell people that all of them as party members won’t be paying and others should follow them in this.
all talk and no action from SF,
Their official position is on their website, as repeated by their TDs on social media.
Easy to miss seeing as though their main political rivals donors include the man who owns most of the media.
well said Were
is that the position that has shifted
Shifted how?
Or you could be a law abiding citizen, pay the charges and not sponge off the people who will pay.
like been double charged then
Fair play Mr King. Best of luck with your campaign.
Yeah fair play, making the rest of us pay for his water.
I think it’s FG and Labour who are making us pay for water
Its shocking the level of misinformation and downright spoofing in relation to their stance on water charges.
Some facts….
Sinn Fein have committed to remove the charges if in Government.
They have blocked similar charges from Northern Ireland Water up north since 2007
The main reason Sinn Fein posters have not been as visible at protest is that the organisers have stated that they did not want the protest politicised or hijacked by political partys.
I’ve spent my whole life looking at the non civil wat partys and left wing tear each other asunder, while FF/FG and their friends laugh all the way to the bank after destroying our state. Please stick together with the people stating they oppose the charges, be they SF, AAA, PBP or anyone else, theres strength in numbers.
Newsflash. It’s all the left wingers can do. And it’s why they’ll never see power. No one with any sense believes them. In other countries socialists tax and spend. Here they claim to not want to tax but to keep up and even increase spending. Who could trust such utter fools?
utter fools hmm….
what you call people who bankrupt a state and im-poverish and exile a generation
” Here they claim to not want to tax but to keep up and even increase spending.”
You tried on this spoof before ‘alan’, and you couldn’t back it up.
Link please to any party claiming they ‘don’t want to tax’, or are you just lying through your teeth.
@ where jammin
As a Sinn Fein supporter all my life , it saddens me to see what this party is becoming , and if you or anybody in SF believe they will be able to reverse water charges if , and that’s a big IF , they get into power in 2016 , you I’m afraid or sadly mistaken , the money IW will look for on the open markets in 2016 will be to much , and we the Irish tax payer will have to guarantee the loans 20 b , and your worried about a few hundred million ? . Also as I’ve been active since ashbrook in togher in stopping IW installing Meters in cork city and county , we have asked SF for support and received none , our group who are none political ( Ballyphehane / south parish says no ) even arranged a meeting with all SF councillors , to call on them to publicly support the residents who where out fighting for our water , and up until Mary Lou came to town it was going ahead , but was canceled after she left cork .
John what does the Council Charge in the North cover ?>
You have never answered a question on here so now is your chance to shine
http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/Rates/What-are-Rates#.UWsj2aI3vCg
Who sets the Regional Rate and what services does this fund?
The Department of Finance and Personnel, a Central Government Department, strikes a Regional Rate to help fund services such as Education, Housing, Personal Social Services, Water and Sewerage. While District Rates vary from district to district, the Regional Rate remains the same throughout Northern Ireland
Glad to be of service Kevin
Definition of a good socialist Alan. Someone who has nothing and wants to share it with everyone…
Sean mile buiochas for your post
I urge any people who can to read your posts and the link and you will see what a council charge in the north is and what services people receive….
I cannot see any mention of a specific water charge (I will have to look again)
What we do have under FFFGLab is a home tax and now we are been bullied into paying a separate water tax
thanks a chara
oh John that is libelous..you know….nice one a chara…Are you going to withdraw that ?
it provides water and waste treatment services :
I cannot see any mention of a specific water charge (I will have to look yet again) note John a specific water service charge…there were attempts to bring in a ” specific water service charge since 2007 and this was blocked by Sinn Fein but you know all this already
werent u lot and Bully Phil charging us separately for septic tanks to charge for water and now Home Tax and charges for water
again John no they do not and there is a Council Charge in the North… no separate tax on homes , on water or even on loos
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6498983.stm
The impression given in some media reports was that there are currently no water charges, which is misleading. Households pay for water as part of their overall domestic rates
as part of their council charge John as already explained to you ad nauseum ….There is no Water Charge John (again) the council charge is raised and provides for services such as :
school meals
refuse collection
sewage treatment
all which are charged for separately here but you know all this already quite well.
I am pleased that your claim I and Were Jammin were lying have benn removed
The regional rate component levied on domestic homes includes Water & Sewage.
Can you explain why you continue to deny this?
It is listed in black and white on the government websites in NI.
Anyone can read these websites, so you just look like a crazy fool if you think denying it will persuade people otherwise.
Good man yourself Cathal!
Now can we have an official party line of non compliance, and from FF too, if they us to see them as more than just nominal opposition
FF agreed to having a water tax
It is totally unbelievable that RTE is not even covering this issue. We should also boycott the Government propaganda Radio and television station RTE, talent free and overpaid.
Covering what exactly? And what about every other media source that isn’t covering it? Could it be that there’s just damn all to cover? A few thousand people at a protest is nothing in a country of four and a half million people. And you can be damn sure if thousands were sending their letters back every day it would be news. RTE are STILL banging on about the Seannad by election, something that is completely irrelevant to just about everyone in the grand scheme of things. You’d want to take stuff reported on here by people who claim to have spoken to postmen with a huge grain of salt.
you sound mighty worried Alan…but wow you typed what ten lines without attacking Sinn Fein, I am impressed
I’m not worried at all. Why would I be? I have no issue paying for what I use. And if by some miracle water charges are repealed then I won’t have to pay. Win/Win for me!!
“I have no issue paying for what I use.”
Neither do I. My issue, and many peoples is being forced to pay twice because your party is stealing the first payment for their bondholder friends.
Continued proof that you simply cannot disagree with a Shinner without them accusing you of being a government supporter. Would it ever dawn on your ilk that it is perfectly possible to agree with some aspects of what a government might do while disagreeing vehemently with other aspects of their policy?
Thought not. No one gets to disagree with Gerry. And that’s why I’m not a member of any party. I like to think for myself and make up my own mind. I don’t need Gerry Adams or anyone else to think for me
Alan if you waddle like a duck and quack like a duck then ya some people may think you are a duck…… metaphorically speaking of course
Alan, how much are you being paid to write this rubbish, IW is registered as a private company so “no contract no consent ” would a very strong legal basis. As for the postman why would I not believe him? Unless of course he was EK, then I’d have good reason, anyway run along like a good little puppet and pay again for your poisoned water.
Alan O Connor we already pay for water. To the tune of €1,300000,000 =€1.3 billion a year.
Did anyone ever say we weren’t paying for water already through our taxes?
Show me the quote.
more nonsense John what does that question even mean
Martin, you are very much mistaken. The power of irish Water to charge for water comes from an act of the Oireachtas which clearly lays out who a customer is also. For this reason, a contract is not required.
I’m not a supporter of water charges but I feel the need to at least point out the legal position and address some of the terrible misinformation out there.
I would not be surprised if IW call in the sherrifs over unpaid bills in the future h just to make a point – and the shrrif won’t care one bit for a ‘no contract, no consent’ argument, he’ll just take your stuff.
@Dara… You are spot on. I don’t support the charges but this notion of ‘NO Contract’ is utter garbage, legally speaking.
You will notice that SF don’t attempt to push this point of view as they know it to be incorrect.
It’s everyone’s right to withhold payment on the grounds that they disagree, but understand the consequences… If you end up in court, the no contract argument will not wash. Be prepared to have a judgement against you, and the impact that will have to your future credit worthiness
Many people simply cannot afford another attack on their living standards, this time in the form of water charges. They cannot swallow this bill for 2 years in the hope that Sinn Fein form part of the next government and follow through on their promises. The water charge needs to be stopped dead in its tracks now with a campaign of mass resistance and non payment.
Coddler, I spoke with a postman today who informed me that close to 100 trays (70 envelopes per tray) were being returned daily to Irish Water, with “no contract no consent ” written on the envelope. I think this is a VG sign that people are not going to just lie down and accept this scam.
Coddler the taxes your group claim to already pay for water has been gobbled up by benchmarking. If ye want credibility then seek cuts in government spend to make books balance.
Let us just hope , Martin, that those same people will continue to hold their resolve and NOT pay when the bills arrive on their hall mat come January….
It has no legal basis whatsoever. It’s like neknomination or the ice bucket challenge. Some amateur lawyer said it or posted it and it spread, as things often do on the internet, both as the truth and like wildfire. A bit like the lad above suggesting that 7000 letters a day are being returned and it must be true because a postman told him. The simple fact is that the government of the day has decided to introduce water charges. The legislation was drawn up and passed. The notion that ignoring it will make it all go away is foolish in the extreme. Everything Irish Water is doing is backed up by legislation.
You may be against them. Fine. You can march against them. Fine. But until you get the legislation repealed then you’re wasting your time. There is absolutely no evidence that this will go any way other than how the property tax went. Ten per cent of people left hanging with their d***s in the wind.
they could try but there could then be a constitutional case
not gone to bondholders no ?
Liam,
The water charges are another mechanism by which the citizens are to be fleeced to pay for the systemic failure of speculative financial capitalism in 2008. This is why our Troika ‘partners’ made it a condition in their memorandum of understanding with the Irish government. The IMF & ECB could not care less about maintaining and upgrading our water network which is the fairytale justification for the charges peddled endlessly by establishment. We could be all drinking slurry as far as Mario Draghi is concerned. What Mario is interested in though is the €1.2 billion that the Irish citizens currently pay annually to run the water and sewerage systems.
If the water charges are successfully enforced, then this €1.2 billion annual revenue stream can instead be diverted to meet the repayments on Ireland’s ‘bailout’ loans (plus interest) used to directly cover private and illegitimate banking debt. In this way the EU & IMF gets to have the Eurozone banking system stabilized at the expense of the Irish people and we get to pay for the privilege through Water charges, Home tax, USC, Health & Education cutbacks, Pension levy and the extra 3 years added to our working lives etc etc.
Alan,
The Fine Gael Labour government of the 1990s decided to impose water charges in Dublin with all the supporting legislation in place then as now. They were defeated with a mass campaign of resistance and non payment and the charges were abolished in 1996. If the campaign is large and determined enough, it will succeed.
It’s time for the people to stand up now and refuse to allow the ransacking of the country to continue.
https://www.facebook.com/WeWontPayTheWaterCharges
Cathal is an absolute gent and a superb counsellor! The very best of luck.
Water charges are here to stay – just like in every other EU country.
SF idiots can jump on as many band wagons as they want.
He’ll never debate the ‘disappeared’ though. An inconvenient matter….
Go back to the Gravel Pit you crawled out from you clown. Same old story with ye anti Shinners bringing up the past and never focusing on the present or future……. Is it any wonder the country’s in bits with fools like yourself running around voting Fine Gael and fine fail looking after all the old cronies.
SF won;t talk about its skeleton in the closet,
They also won’t commit to telling people not to pay, cowards.
They either need to make a stand or anything else is pure electioneering
People always giving out about SF, don’t know why as they won’t give them a chance, I think alot of sheep like been walked all over some sort of fetish or something.
The man proposes to be elected to our highest law making body while at the same time stating that he will outright break the law in relation to water charges introduced by the government of the state.
Typical Shinner. We don’t like it but because we’ll never have enough support to change things we’ll just refuse to obey the law of the land.
A very familiar story with them.
They have 14 TDs and 154 councillors. Can you imagine the consequences if they came out and supported the we won’t pay campaign publicly ?
They know that there is a good chance they will be in gov after the next gen election… And are afraid to upset the apple cart.
They did not support the non payment of the LPT, and Mary Lou even registered to pay , before the deadline.
Sinn Fein cowards. They have lost the respect of the people in this issue and LPT. When people neede and expected leadership from them , they chickened out and continue to do so.
@ Eileen. Any TD who did not pay the LPT would have not been given a tax clearance cert, and under the SIPO act she would not have been let continue represent her constituents in the Dail.
It was a catch 22 set up by FG/Labour, please don’t help do their dirty work for them.
Eileen there is NO chance that they will be in power after the next election. As the chips come down they are being shown up for the utterly inept fools that they are. Matt Carthy was handed his arse yesterday. Today they have a man who wants to be a TD openly talking about breaking the law while at the same time refusing to tell those whose support he wants the truth about the party’s stance on water charges. And they obfuscate about their role in both property and water charges in the North. I wouldn’t trust them to run a bath.
Were there any laws of the land broken on FG’s watch regarding a certain mobile phone license about 20 years ago?
Phil Hogan was well rehearsed in his answers yesterday ,Alan . After Mc Carthy’s question ,he got out his piece of paper and started reading from it . Just typical anti-Sinn Fein crap on this site . And just for the bloody record ‘ I have never ever voted for SF’ .
bit out of touch Gravel aint you…. You are using the disappeared for political purpose… you do not give a toss about the people involved or their families it s just something you can bash Sinn Fein about
alas Alan.. i spoke too soon you are back to the same old same old…..if you do what you have always done you will get what you have always gotten
SF are finding out that their tactic of having pretty boys and girls elected just isn’t enough! Matt Carty made to look like a fool yesterday and Boylan taken apart by Vincent Browne last night. They’ve had their 15 mins and now it’s time to let the grown ups who know what they’re doing get on with the job of getting this country back on track.
I do not think anyone will be asking you to run a bath
@ pontius ” They had their chance, and they blew it by not replacing Adams and widening the party appeal. ”
The same people were saying that when they were at 2%, now they’re at around 20% and Adams frequently tops most popular leader polls.
F-, must troll harder
VB is that same VB Enda wont descend to be interviewed by..
..Lynn Boylan MEP did very well and let him rant away off on his tangent as usual and came she across calm and collected and made pertinent points that put him in his box.
Regarding Matt I am sure he will be flattered as you describing him as a pretty boy… you certainly could not accuse Bully Phil in that regard….oops he may sue me……..Yesterday’s interview was sown up in advance and only showing cause..as see thru as a Fine Gael appointment to a state board..
Grown ups runig the country hmmm…mass emigration, decimated communities, creaking health services… bondholders cronies… advisers , vested Interest…..
Ya really grown up
FFS!! Joan the Moan or Groan Burton has been doing leaders questions a few times now .And it’s something painful to watch or I should say ‘hear’ her responses .. Way off topic ! Blah,blah,blah,disappeared,blah,blah,blah!
its all theories with you…you need to get out in the real world if you think money is flowing again…. you just expect and hope people will turn to FF in the next election….in no mans land 159 councillors up from 51… and 4 MEPS up from 1…if thats no mans land it aint too bad now
We’re jammin, tax clearance certs? Pay master general pays Tds senators etc… And revenue dipped into their wages without their consent to take the LPT even though they did not register.. I am certainly not a supporter of SF but I am most definitely not supporting FG , FF or labour. Look at my pic AAA = anti austerity alliance and we support 100% the we won’t pay campaign. I will boycott the Water charges just like I didthe LPT ( Although they took it from my pension , without my consent)
Eileen we are not going to lead people down the road to the courts then abandon them. The AAA/ ULA/ peoples movement of Judea or whenever you are now called are acting very irresponsible on this issue. Well Done to my colleague Cllr King.
Good luck with the campaign
Cllr Malachy at least you know now there are at least six AAA heads on here lol….
on a serious note what will happen when they split again as is inevitable…. Claire stepped out and Paul stepped in again.. then Joan left PBP and Seamus Healey had left the ironically named ” United Left Alliance a few years ago,,,
If they cannot agree amngst themselves what point putting one in the Dail
My God youre crystal ball is in overdrive today….did you get it from the Galway tent money ? not to mention your downright snobbery…anyone who disagree with you which is most people are idiots
what happened in 2009 council elections the then government did poorly and then last general election in 2011 they did worse…
the fact of more economic activity benefits the few and is of little comfort to those who have suffered under FFFG
@Pontius
Germany: no vrt. No car tax. No USC. And along with other countries cheaper water tax per m3 (1000L). Uk cheaper vat. DO I NEED TO GO ON?
Mobile phone license—siteserv/sierra h20 contracts—next IW?
Until Sinn Fein get involved and advocate towards a campaign of non payment, then their stance will continue to be nothing but smoke and mirrors. Too many conflicting stances within their leadership, a refusal to commit to dismantling Irish Water. I’m sorry, but another party’s position was “elect us and sure we’ll fix everything” and that party was Labour. They do nothing for campaigning and mobilising people into action.
Spot on,
They won’t commit to being fully against the charges by openly telling people that they support non payment as a party, they know that such a stance could very easily back fire on them
And in the mean time it’s two years from a general election (maybe). Sinn Fein today officially announced that they won’t support a campaign of non payment, so what do they expect hard pressed families to do in the meantime? Pay out and hope that Sinn Fein get into government and then another two years of parliamentary nonsense before there’s even a possibility of them being scrapped? No way. An active campaign of non-payment, demonstration and political pressure is what beat the charges in the 90′s, and contrary to what Sinn Fein say, it’s what beat the charges in the North as well.
It doesent matter what siin fein or FF or any political party say , on this issue It is up to each and one of us The Citzens of Ireland to decide I have decided I will not pay for water in this manner, and if enough of my fellow citzens take the same view. this water Tax will be defeated
Fiona
Contrary to the lies you’ve been told Water Charges are billed to homeowners in the North as a part of their Council Tax which is similar but much higher than our Property Tax. A detailed breakdown of that charge defines the amount that is allocated to water services.
Thus Sinn Fein are speaking out of both sides of their mouth in the pretence that they have prevented such charges in the North.
All they have done is to slow down the separate bill for same.
What a Party!
And Gerry making the speech of all speeches at the beginning of the Peace Process that was written in the sitting room of 10 Downing Street by the PM’s speech writer!
What a distinctly dishonest shower.
Richard
Do you ever tire of regurgitating the same old stuff you ramble on with ?! Take a hiatus ,a long one!
In the north, homeowners pay ONCE for their water, just through rates instead of taxation like down here.. SF have blocked householders having to pay TWICE since 2007, and are vowing to stop householders being charged twice down here.
Whereas richies party have been threatening to turn your water down to a trickle if ‘der orders veren’t obeyed vitout quertion’.
Richard no matter how many times you tell the lie that ” there are water charges in the North”you still will not make it true.
You mention the
Council Tax in the North and that a portion (You dont tell us how much I note ) goes towards water services? Can you tell us how much ?
Can you also tell us what other services payers of Council Tax receive ?
It is a Council Tax,,,here we have a “Home-tax “
Pontius aptly named by the way…you do agree FF did agree with them and their silence is deafening
Garry very well said… I think ordinary people are at breaking point and have had enough irressopective of their political view… I must say Cathal is right to for each of us to make up our own mind way more powerful than any party saying do these because we said so
Fiona, so next time vote SF and give them the chance to be different. No point saying they won’t be just because someone else didn’t keep their promise when they went into government. Then, if they win the election and get into government and don’t keep their promise, then you’ll have your answer.
richard (walter mitty) rodgers the resident spoofing idiot with the usual shinners this, shinners that yada,yada,yada…
I notice you kept very quiet when your spineless liar of a leader was busy lieing his pathetic arse off about his cronyism stroke.
The only thing he was apologetic for is that his lies and sleveen acts are tripping him up.
Mike he is probably sorry as well he appointed Heather Humpty
Well said Fiona.. i gave my local Sein Fein Councillor number 1 in the local election… i am sure she has emigrated … not a whimper out of her..
Name the SF Cllr & give her a chance to defend herself, instead of making wild comments. Maybe even e mail or ring her also.
Richard, your comments about SF in fact supporting the combined property and water charge in NI are totally inappropriate for this forum.
You are simply a party pooper, ruining a good SF love-in where Sinn Facts are stated soberly and dogmatically, even if they have no basis in reality.
Despite that water charges ARE embedded in the property charge in NI that Sinn Fein supports, your pointing that FACT out is just trolling/same old record/spoofing etc in the minds of the SF automotons on this forum.
Go spoil someone else’s party.
John you are talking to yourself again….
now second time of asking as Richard your alto ego was asked as well please tell us as you are so expert on the Northern Council Charges…what do they cover ??? as in what do they entitle the payer to receive go on be an honest lad and tell the truth for once….
You may have to consult head office but please let us know
lol who is she Tim ? u wouldnt be disunited left alliance now by any chance
u will be waiting there lol
John second time you have accused me of lying… you are walking a very thin legal line there…rmove please like the last post you did
No John no matter how many times you try you cannot make this one stick..
There is no separate water charge in the North the party you are a member of is introducing one here.as well of course as a Home Tax and even a septic tank tax…..ya a “crap tax ” if ever i heard of one
Yes in the North there is a Council Charge and as I said elsewhere it covers extensive services most of which we are paying for separately here…
There was a proposal from 2007 that a separate water charge be introduced and this was prevented by Sinn Fein….
PS even Senior Fine Gael people are no longer coming out with your lines anymore you must be working off an olde memo…
ps why do you insist on translating my name ? Does the Irish version cause you upset
I’ve said from the start that the water and sewage charge in NI is included in the rate levied on domestic homes.
You now are wriggling out of your denial of this by claiming I said it was a separate charge; which I didn’t.
The separate charge will be introduced in the near future.
Total BS from SF that domestic homes do not already pay for water and sewage through their domestic rates as set by the SF administration in NI.
Keep digging your hole though.
i won’t be paying mine either… Water is my basic right to keep me alive….. plus i can’t afford anymore.. i am just working to pay tax…. this has to stop…
Same here Tim Kearney.
Anyone that pays this charge is a f..king idiot , you do already pay for it , don’t be fooled by the lies . I’ve been following this from oz from the start and I really can’t understand people who actually back this illegal cash grab , you’re either total fools or , well I don’t know what the ( or ) is , you must be complete fools . Wake the f..k up Ireland .
Well John Byrne if you’re in Australia you are paying for water there. Hypocrite.
He pays once. Your beloved FG are trying to force us to pay twice.
Hey mcbab…….I am sure John Byrne in Australia is NOT PAYING TWICE!!
Yes I do macnugget , and you already pay in Ireland too you fool . Go educate yourself . If you are happy to pay for something twice , more fool you . And I have to say the service here in Australia is excellent , no leaks and no brown crap flowing from the taps . I pay my strata fees every year which cover , water , bins , building and grounds maintenance . It’s not a quango and will not be sold in a few yrs time . You sir are a fool .
Well said I live in oz due to the failed goverment in ireland .l for one am very happy to pay water charges here the service is first class the water is fit for human consumption and the best thing is I only pay for once .Soft touchs only pay twice …
They’ll get the money from the taxes we’ve already been paying, to cover it!
SF wants somebody else to pay, well I am shocked
We already pay for it
Have to laugh at all of these FB profiles, all with a single photo, trying to pass themselves off as ‘steve hardy’, ‘alan o’connor’ etc. All repeating the same spin and soundbites spoonfed to them from FGHQ.
Laughable
ya and u could add a few more names too….if u watch closely they trip themselves up too quite a bit too…years ago YFG were quite active and had sometimes different views to the main party but recent times they are merely pip squeaks doing EDNA’s bidding…..
SF said they would abolish water charges, and not Irish Water, if they get a majority in the next election. Big if and not enough
The employees have alienated themselves… However they could be redeployed to FIX the pipes and leaks etc., and build a proper network of water via the councils. But Irish Water in my personal opinion must be disbanded.
Eileen, if it were written into the constitution that IW would remain the sovereign of the irish people and would remain in public hands, and SF kept their promise that they would abolish the domestic charge, would that be preferable to wasting the money already spent, and then spend more money handing control back to the councils?
We’re jammin, in a word No.
People want to be supported now . Not wait for 18 months on a big IF….
We have been lied to, black guarded, sneered at, and people want water charges abolished now. It’s not just the issue of water …. It is every thing.Sinn Fein acting like Labour …is a big joke
Eileen with respect when is the split going to come ?
Sinn Fein want loads more spending on health, education, affordable housing, no homelessness at all but less taxation, no property tax, no water charges, forget Croke Park and Haddington Road and burn bond holders. All the popular stuff that only a childish understanding of economics demands. Nothing they say adds up. So many of their spokes people sound smart, dress well and have a glickeens answer for everything.
Our much acclaimed smart, skilled, highly educated and young population will be put to a real test in economics at the next election. I wonder will the get a 1st or a fail the test?
Are they a bunch of fools? I’m too old and grey to fall for bullshit.
Liam,
Most countries run a budget deficit most of the time and it makes perfect economic sense to do so. It’s really only the Eurozone countries that are required to borrow their own currency in the market at an interest rate determined by the market. Fiat currency issuing nations like the U.S and U.K do not need to obtain dollars and sterling from the bond markets to finance a budget deficit for example. When they do choose to issue government bonds the primary objective is to implement monetary policy (e.g. drive their chosen base interest rate to target) not as a necessity to raise revenue. In addition, when those countries do ‘borrow’ in the market, they effectively decide what the yield/interest will be unlike the Eurozone nations subject to the tender mercy of the speculators.
In fact with the fiat floating currencies we’ve had since the 1970s there is no need whatsoever for a currency issuing government/central bank like the U.S. or Japan to ‘borrow’ at all in its own currency. They can simply create the currency at will. This is a major factor in why sovereign currency issuing governments actually control bond interest rates regardless of the state of their economies. The government ‘debt’ market is in reality an extremely generous, risk-free, interest bearing deposit facility for the large financial institutions and ultra wealthy. Continuing this neo liberal agenda, the Eurozone was deliberately designed to allow private banks (markets) to profit to an even greater extent from member state debt and so allowed them to set the borrowing rate for Euro countries on an individual basis.
Modern fiat currency money is created at will on computer keyboards by the institutions public and private that are authorized to do so.
As explained, currency issuing nations like the U.S and U.K do not need to borrow their own currency in the market to finance a budget deficit. The Federal Reserve and the Bank of England can simply create as much money as required by pressing keys on a computer. In practice, they are a little more discrete in their money creation. The usual mechanism is that the government will issue new bonds and sell them to the commercial markets. The primary function of this exercise is to drive the base interest rate to the desired target rather than any real necessity to raise revenue from private sources. The central banks can then at a later stage exchange the previously issued government bonds in return for central bank reserves (base money) in an effective asset swap with the commercial banks. The central bank reserves are created electronically at will by the central bank as necessary to maintain liquidity in the interbank market. In this way a sovereign country can never really default on its own currency denominated debts as the central bank can always ‘buy’ back the debt with newly created central bank reserves which every commercial bank requires to function.
It is also important to add that the creation of new money is not in itself inflationary if there is sufficient real wealth (goods & services) to buy with that new money. This is especially true if the new money is directed to the productive sectors of the economy which leads to GDP growth and so more availability of real goods and services to purchase. The World Bank has recognized this as the primary factor behind the phenomenal growth seen in the post Ww2 economies of Japan, Taiwan etc. Another key factor which prevents inflation is large scale unemployment where the productive capacity of the economy is not close to its peak. In this scenario which we currently face in Ireland and across Europe, the labour of the unemployed can be purchased with newly created money with no risk of general inflation.
Article on this subject from Forbes magazine:
http://www.forbes.com/2011/03/18/deficit-cut-danger-budget-jobs-leadership-managing-employment.html
Yes maybe a with a small deficit. But ours was astronomically gigantic. What you are saying is bs, our government had no choice to fix it the way they did.
Return to sender ..Address known.
Isn’t it more recipient unknown though?
The address does actually exist ;)
SF should do now what they didn’t do with the property tax; state, without equivocation, that if a Government is formed of which they are a member then
(a) Anyone who doesn’t pay the water charges will have all legal claims, charges and prosecutions against them wiped clean.
(b) Will be compensated for any trauma the State inflicts for non-payment.
(c) Water charges will be abolished.
(d) Any staff of Irish Water found guilty of threatening consumers will be fired without any pension.
That, just might, indicate they are serious and give the Establishment Fascists pause for thought.
The legal system doesn’t work like that. That would be political interference in the judiciary
Cut off his water. It will be a dirty protest.
I have 2 euro until next Thursday. I pay so much in tax and so many bills that’s what im reduced to… I have no more to give. It would be cheaper to be on welfare!
Follows in the long tradition of SF paying no heed to the law
There are things called unjust laws a chara
If Sinn Fein actually helped to organise a proper fight against the water tax not just “wait until we’re in government” this battle would be so much easier. Seeing as Sinn Fein claim to be an anti austerity, anti water tax party they should be involved in the non payment campaign which could actually win. They’re not really anti austerity if we have to wait for a year and a half for them to actually do something..
For feck sake do people not realise it’s a tax and not a voluntary contribution.Think I’ll try this whole (don’t wanna pay, is that ok) approach the next time I fill my car with diesel. 75% off my bill immediately….
Sounds familiar ,same thing was said about property tax.
Hello?
a chara they are hardly too many queing up for you…and ya i know pot kettle black
The FG thugs are getting afraid now .one term government this is gonna be.
This guy wants to be elected as a lawmaker and yet he won’t abide by the law. Typical Sinn Fein bull. Bet he pays his road tax
have your say