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MARY LOU MCDONALD accused the government of threatening to turn off the water of people who cannot pay the water charges.
The Deputy Leader of Sinn Féin said there’s a ”huge number of families who cannot pay” and put it to Tanaiste Joan Burton that her government was “denying these people the right to wash their children and their sick parent and even denying them the ability to clean and cook.
You are threatening these families and saying their water supply will be cut off if they cannot meet this bill.
Burton responded to McDonald, saying “will you please get real” adding that the threat of water being cut off “is a big Sinn Féin lie”.
Mary Lou McDonald described how a man came to her office and speaking about the water charges said, “This is the end of me – I cannot under any circumstances pay this bill”.
Burton replied, “The law in Ireland does not allow his water to be cut off.
Nobodies water will be cut off. It’s not legally allowed to be cut off.
The Labour Twitter account was quick to pick up on the accusation.
The Labour Party / TwitterMary Lou gets her facts wrong at Leaders Questions - Irish Water does NOT have have power to cut off water to households.
— The Labour Party Ireland (@labour) October 9, 2014
Burton added that, “There will be a water services support payment of €100 per annum for families and that will go significant way to defray the cost.”
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Well if you’re not going to cut off supply then why would we pay? People don’t pay their mortgage out of a sense of civic responsibility, they pay it for fear of eviction. People don’t pay their ESB because they think they’re a great bunch of lads, they pay it because they understand the ramifications. So if there are no ramifications to non payment of the water charge, how exactly is this going to turn out any different to the water rates in the 90s?
“People don’t pay their mortgage out of a sense of civic responsibility, they pay it for fear of eviction.” While that is the utimate end game, most people are honest and repay their mortgage becuase they borrowed it in the first place.
One the subject of water can’t see them even bothering to reduce the flow to be honest. Will be interesting to see what action they do take for non-payment.
SM, having something without paying for it is the same as stealing in my book.
And you are of course entitled to your opinion Chris. Unfortunately no one really cares what something is in your book, or my book, or anyone else’s book for that matter. If there are no real ramifications to non-payment, it won’t be paid. There’s no point blaming me for that, that’s just how things work. If you don’t believe me, look up what happened with water rates in the 90s, then see if you can find Einstein’s definition of insanity, then start planning for storage of a few hundred thousand water meters alongside our e-voting machines.
You won’t have your water cut off, but Irish water will be able to view debt collectors to enforce the bills they decided to send out (with any sort of imaginary interest they devise), and try to get people jailed through non payment of fine. Something which labour have the power to change, but won’t.
Chris you accused a poster yesterday of being sexist when he compared one woman to another but wouldn’t explain yourself.
Alien, debtors prison is but a distant memory. IW are a semi state company, much like ESB. If I don’t pay my ESB I can be pursued through the courts, but I won’t be fined by the courts, only ordered to settle, and should I refuse I end up in Stubbs. Don’t see how anyone could end up in prison over non payment unless extraordinary privileges are granted to IW.
@Silent, we still have around 200 people a year jailed as a result of civil debt. If there is mass opposition to IW water charges, then it will be used in their arsenal to coerce people to pay. Do you think the government will side on the citizen making a protest or the quango enforcing the ‘law’?
First: IW is a private company. You have to have a contract to be billed.
Second: would you still pay the ESB if you were a customer of Airtricity? Or pay UPC if you were a SKY customer? Or pay Vodafone if you were with O2?
I think not.
Alien, news to me, what sort of civil debt are people imprisoned for? I thought you just ended up in Stubbs these days, but always open to correction.
And we can cater for something like 5,000 prisoners in this country; it may be used as a threat, but not a very realistic one.
Quick cris. Your onto something here. Tell the guards that their pals in Leinster house are getting all these perks for free at your expense, this is great news. I’m sure they’ll expidide your request asap.
Sheriff or County Registrar can seize your goods at the end of court proceedings so the consquences don’t just mean Stubbs SM.
SM your ideas of an Irish society reminds me of the following Quotation:
‘Do not blame Ceasar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoice at their loss of freedom and danced in his path and gave him triumphal processions. Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the ‘new, wonderful good society’ which shall now be Rome, interpreted to mean more money, more ease, more security, more living fatly at the expense of the industrious”
Marcus Cicero 55BC
Dee, I am afraid that I have to tell you that while Irish Water is a private limited company it is in fact owned by the state just like many other so caled semi-states; Coillte, Bord Na Mona, Eirgrid, Irish Rail etc etc etc.
And I am also afraid to tell you that Irish Water don’t need a contract to bill you. This is covered by the Water Services Act 2013. Now you are quite free to take a legal challange to this ACT (I think someone already is) but at the moment it is the law.
Sorry for the bad news!
@Silent Majority I imagine non-payment is rewarded with selling off your debt to a collection agency as is done with non payment of phone bills and such.
Source: Worked in Vodafone for a bit, they will contact credit agencies to collect debts, or just sell your debt to them and leave you to the wolves.
I think that you have it wrong there Dee, Irish Water is not yet a private company, it was set up by the government and is operated by a state agency Bord Gais.
Second: The ESB is also a state company and they via Eirgrid own the power lines, they contract out the service to companies like Airtricity who generate some of Irelands electrical power supply.
Chris, people like you entertain me, you really are from a bygone age. You think you can moralise and shame people into acting against their own better judgement – you can’t, you never will be able to, so why bother trying?
It’s not my idea of Irish society that are shaping my views, it is my understanding of economics and more specifically game theory. Now, if you think Nash was wrong and you can bully people away from their optimal positions, I wish you luck, and you will need it. I have you pegged as an old school catholic type who still hasn’t come to terms with the fact that the “moral majority” no longer holds any sway, harking back to a good old days of shame and guilt.
You are right Norman, but then again I don’t remember anyone asking me to explain myself.
Well SM, you obviously have a poor judgement of what people are, I am neither catholic or old school. I learned about life from experience of world travel, hard work and bringing up a family to be educated properly. Having been self employed and watching my children grow up and emigrate just like I did when I was a younger man. It is using my own instincts which shaped my philosophy not religion and a belief that while there is life, there is hope in this country.
And yet you still think you can moralise people into acting acting against their own best interests with lines like “it’s stealing in my book”? I really hope the education you obtained for your offspring is superior to that your parents managed for you.
Chris – tell that to her overpaid ministerial cronies (past and present), who have passed legislation which means they don’t have to pay for their water.
Wouldn’t ya pay your mortgage to one day OWN your home? Plain and simple. Of course it is a debt but home ownership is the goal – we live in such a fear-based culture it is amazing the comments.
I asked you as did another poster.
WE PAY FOR WATER THROUGH GENERAL TAXATION!!! Can we all stop saying things like it’s, free and its stealing, We don’t want water privatized that’s the argument. Irish water is a profit driven quango. We will all get fleeced by Irish water. Within 2 to 3 years bills will double if not treble. This country takes in enough tax to run its own water service at cost price. We don’t need it to be privatized. The reason for this happening is to make alot of rich people involved even richer. Anyone who thinks it’s about providing a better system or fixing leaks etc is quite frankly an idiot.
I pay my way because I am a self reliant adult and not a selfish sponger
We do pay for water Chris, with our taxes, asking people to pay for something twice is stealing!
SM
Like any other utility they’ll quickly take you to court for non payment. They’ll do it to everyone at the start that refuses to so as to make a point. There are consequences to non payment. They also have the ability to reduce the flow and when reduced to a trickle will make life very difficult for people.
I remember all these parties when they were in opposition for nearly the best part of a decade .. The one skill that they’ve learnt is : ‘not to answer the question that you were asked’.
Its gonna get very real for you Joan come 2016 love
Mary Lou wasn’t the one who said water could be cut off or reduced to a trickle! Think Joan would want to get her facts right!
‘Burton added that, “There will be a water services support payment of €100 per annum for families and that will go significant way to defray the cost.”’
‘Defray’ the cost of charging them twice for their water, along with shouldering 42% of europes banking debt, the property tax, and a raft of stealth taxes and cuts too long to even list.
In other words labour will ensure that kids will still collapse in school but not starve to death, won’t die of thirst but won’t be able to afford first world hygiene etc.
Jobsbridge Joan, the leader of the party of Connolly for the centenary of him being tied to a chair and shot for fighting for the people labour are now destroying
Hope they get decimated at the polling booth tomorrow.
Where does the VAT and motor tax go in NI? water in NI is included in the rates. But then where does the VAT and motor tax go? Are people in the north paying twice for their water like we will be? That can’t be since SF stopped water charges ie they stopped something being named a water charge but it’s simply tucked away in the household charge.
“the NI executive acknowledged that consumers already pay an average of £160 per year towards water and sewerage services through their regional rate but this is not enough”
There are water charges in NI. Along with VAT and motor tax.
€100 per annum to help families?
Pathetic and insulting.
Joan Burton the Minister for self protection and bean counter will be counting all her pensions after the next election.
The Labour party are no longer the party of Connolly they should hold their heads in shame.
So 100 euro would cover about 36% of the annual charge for 2 adults and 2 children. This is insulting?
Does that cover working families who are struggling to pay their existing bills?
Pure spin to add to the insult. Only applies to people who qualify for the household relief package.
@dane, I might be mistaken but the €100 euro discount is only for those on the social welfare household package.
Joan Burton is a disgrace…you tube her appearance before the last election with Vin browne and you will get the see her in her real unpleaseant form….
She Also didn’t answer the tough question put to her by Mary Lou she sidestepped it.
She will never answer a question. That why she won the leadership contest to head up the POLITICAL PROSTITUTE party. We now have Howling talking about public sector saleries prior to general election.
The €100 relief only goes to people that qualify for the household relief package and that’s a small % of the people that are struggling
Pot and kettle come to mind!
The biggest Electoral Liars in Irish history-Labour!
I always gave them 1 or 2 on my vote-NEVER AGAIN!
I’ve NEVER given SF even a preference-that will change the next Election!
A swing of two… I will not vote Labour again (last time was 20 years ago), but would still prefer liars to murderers if I had to choose.
Well said joan.
Well, said Joan.
Fool.
What’s the point in paying if they can’t cut you off?
says the chief FG poodle boy on every comments section
Interesting how it’s a FG supporter defending Joan, where are the Labour supporters?
I presume as with other utilities a court order will make you pay…
Joan and Labour looking like cornered rats they know the ship is sinking.
Joan picks up where inda leaves off. Avoiding questions as if they have every right teh.
As much as I dislike Joan B. SF will not scrap water charges. Reduce maybe but not scrap. They are using these charges as a way of glossing over the fact they have no real economic plan for the next election.
I’m no SFer, but what party in this state does have an economic plan beyond wild populism? This government got in on lies and their only economic planning was kindly provided to them by the IMF. Previous FF governments got in on ridiculous giveaways promising long term commitments with short term income streams, and treating long term income & current income. Every party in this state has much the same economic plan – hope to Christ Americans keep employing us, hope to Christ property can be reinflated to provide more giveaway money to secure another term before it a goes tits up again, and never ever ever try to reform the increasingly useless public service departments.
Austerity Joan has us all living with severe Stockholm syndrome. Listening to her comment on water protesters with “high quality” phones recording the Gardaí and water meter installers conduct, you would nearly swear that we are not allowed to have things. What until you see all the videos being broadcast on the BBC, Reuters and CNN. Austerity Joan is going to spark an Irish Spring against past present and future austerity!
Well there we have it folks…..If the water will not be cut off why pay the bill? Of course IW intend to slow your supply down to a trickle if you do not pay. So you can have water but just not enough of it. Joan Burton is like John Ford….you can have whatever colour you like so long g as it’s black. As far as supply is concerned there is no choice. A trickle is not a supply.
Henry was the black one. John was the black and white one that eventually became a man of colour.
Correct….Apologies.
I would love to know how they intend to “turn it down to a trickle” as Big Phill said.
IW would have to send out a worker and 3/4 close the stopcock at the meter, so when he leaves just go to the meter and turn it on fully again.
Ah, my beloved Joan.
As resplendent as ever in this stunning white number.
And what is this??
Be still my beating heart, it’s cleavage!
My cup (and trousers) runneth over.
*throws up a little in mouth*
would you?
The board of Irish Water should be asked all outstanding questions. Leave the silver tongued PR lady at home and stand up for what you intend.
They are not bonuses, they are performance based payments I tells ye.
‘A rose by any other name is still a rose’.
But the important thing is how does it smell, like the back end of a bull
Steve you’re an amusing guy and pleasant, a rarity here.
Irish Water does NOT have the authority to cut off people’s water supply. The Government will have to set up a new €50bn agency, probably the Irish Cessation of Water Supply Service Board, for that.
If the water rates came in and the government got rid of the usc altogether then maybe people might think twice about paying the government are a bunch of clueless non imaginative people that need to employ people to tell them what to do so why vote them in in the first place
I say this as a former PD who is not a fan of SF, the mere fact that so many of you think SF pledging to get rid of the property tax, water charges and JB is unrealistic just shows what a complete doormat they have turned you into.
The country got on well for nearly 100 years without any of those things, they are barely in a few weeks and they already have you lemmings thinking they are as much a part of the landscape as the blue sky and gravity.
They are a policy that can be changed, like anything else. In the 20s the new provisional government disbanded the entire police force that had existed for 100s of years, pensioned them off and sent them home, and created an entire new force from scratch with a totally diff ethos and outlook….governments change and policies shift. Some SF ideas are a little pie in the sky, I think they grossly overestimate how much a wealth tax would bring in, but if you think a property tax is ok then a wealth tax is just a simple extension of the exact same concept, it’s not bonkers, and a third rate of tax on 6 figure incomes is about as mainstream a policy as it gets in mainland Europe.
It’s not INEVITABLE that a party promise gets broken, just because Labour did it does not mean SF will. Labour did it because it was a party full of has beens from the 80s and 90s who wanted to get one last snout in the trough before retirement, SF is playing a long game and has mostly young new people leading it, they’re not gonna ruin their chances of becoming one of the two main parties by ignoring all their election promises.
A has been talking about has beens.
Why do I have to keep paying taxes after working for fifty years and me thinking all this time I was paying for water .
There are thousands that will not have to read about water charges because they are dead – murdered by SF’s buddies, the IRA.
Get help !
Here banga wait till I tell ye, SF will work their way into control of the state and by 2020 all eyes in the state will be on a United Ireland, with our VAT, excise and plastic bag levy your buckfast and glue sniffing will be expensive, when our troops take back what is rightfully ours you can bow to your new Irish overlords.
Sinn Fein are riding high in the pools at the moment it’s easy to be anti everything in opposition after the next election they may be in power and it should be interesting how they perform in relation to all the charges they now oppose will they sell out and bring in charges as in the north
“Riding high in the pools”! I do hope that pun was intentional!
We all know Joan that the hundred euro can be decreased and water tax can be increased as we’ve seen with all other payments . You can’t fool all the people all the time
The €100 is only for the household benefit package which you have to be 66 or over
Why do we persist on living in a fear-based culture? Is it the one and true legacy of the Catholic church? “….you’ll go to hell!!!”
Please I hope we can shed this way of life!
I’m fine with water charges, simply because if they don’t collect them they will have to increase tax to compensate because they won’t cut spending enough… and I like the idea of having at least some level of control over how much more money the govt get to take.
But why did they not just add it to the property service charge and deduct from source? This daft process is going to drag on for years if they don’t.
Japes Joan what about all the labour lies that was told at the last election explain please
The woman in charge of Irish water definetly said when asked that people’s water would be cut down to a trickle if they don’t pay
Joan please ask irish water to fit the trickle plug to your house and see how u get onn under irish law water can not be denied to a person but it can be slowed so as to make it useless
They won’t cut it off but BIG PHIL said it would be a trickle what use is that
Nobody pay – that’s the best tactic that will work. Gone too far crony kenny
They can not cut our water supply but they can reduce the pressure, so it will take hours to fill a kettle!!
have your say