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THE IMMIGRANT COUNCIL of Ireland has today welcomed a report recognising prostitution as a form of sexual violence.
It is felt that this recommendation for a change to legislation would help those who fall victim to human trafficking.
The report, released today by the Oireachtas Justice Committee on Sexual and Domestic Violence, recommends adopting the ‘Swedish Approach’ to combat prostitution.
This would involve criminalising the purchase of sexual services while decriminalising and providing support for those who sell sexual services.
The committee described itself as, “concerned to learn that many vulnerable people have become involved in the sex industry and not as a matter of free choice.”
Violence against the individual
It went on to state that its focus was on preventing violence against the person and that there was a concern with incidents where buyers of sexual services carry out physical violence against those working in the sex industry.
It was also said that the economic and social factors are associated with people working in prostitution should also be examined, although in a way that does not criminalise or stigmatise.
The Council also welcomed recommendations in the report that would assist those trapped in abusive relationships due to fear of deportation.
Response
Speaking about the Committee’s findings, Chief Executive of the Immigrant Council of Ireland, Denise Charlton, said:
By identifying prostitution as sexual violence the Committee has again made clear that it is time for laws which will curb abuse, exploitation and trafficking. The members have reiterated that the best way to do this is to introduce laws which will target the buyers of sex.
The Council expressed hope that the recommendation would be included by Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald in future laws on prostitution.
Domestic violence
Today’s report also stated that domestic violence should be treated more seriously. The body recommended that it should be a crime in itself and that the definition of what constitutes domestic violence should be widened.
In the report the group suggested that Minister Fitzgerald introduce measures that would see the Garda taking statements at the time a domestic violence incident is reported, which if the victim permits could include photographs and an immediate medical assessment.
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Hmm… There doesn’t seem to be a clear distinction here between people forced into sex work and those who chose to do sex work. This sort of legislation could cause all kinds of headaches for non-trafficked people trying to make a living.
We’re supposed to pretend nobody does it voluntarily.
“A woman’s body, a woman’s choice” Unless we don’t like the choice, in which case we assume she didn’t REALLY choose it and just look for a way to blame & imprison a man. Because equality.
This is the Swedish model which hasn’t worked.
This is Ireland. When has something not working stopped us from trying it anyway.
Correct!
And as an expat living in Stockholm, I really wish the anti-prostitution lobby would stop holding up the “Swedish” model as some kind of symbol of excellence.
It’s not.
In five years living here I’ve seen two prosecutions of purchasers – one a former trade union activist turned potential political candidate; the second a duty judicial prosecutor in the city.
He lost his job, I can’t recall what happened to the former.
Yet on any given day, along well enough known streets around the city, one sees the “night flyers” (all genders) plying their trade, with or without their pimps.
There is growing evidence that targeting the buyer helps drive the “industry” underground. Whatever safeties prostitutes might have in a more open environment, if it’s a clandestine business, those safeguards disappear and the prostitutes suffer more.
The key to all of this is enforcement and the will of the authorities to enforce the Law of the Land. Laws by any volume, are only that, if they’re not enforced.
There is a body of law in existence in Ireland already on this issue.
Before running to adopt a spurious foreign arrangement, perhaps enforcing what we’ve got might give an acceptable result?
How much does the swedish model charge?
Sorry, Gabbi J, I’m sure you mean no particular harm and are simply trying a little levity – unfortunately the reality of prostitution is far from light and is potentially life threatening.
@Patrick Ryan
Was the duty prosecutor in Stockholm imprisoned?
Sexual Violence is a bit extreme!
No government has or will ever totally get rid of prostitution. So, rather than moving away from the more central issues of safety for sex workers by instigating new and subjective terms, such as ‘sexual violence’, why doesn’t the Government work with sex workers to make their job as safe as it can be.
The Swedish model is an abject failure. Why not legalise it and make it safer for the sex workers. What these idiots are proposing will do nothing to stop trafficking.
FFS are these idiots blind. Prostituion is already illegal for both a client and a vendor. This will only drive it further underground. It does nothing to protect anyone.Also I’m pretty sure that people have been trafficked in to work in restuarants aswell. Should we criminalise the selling of ethnic takeaways ? These laws are the result of some over enthusiastic middle class do gooder on a moral crusade.They have absolutly no idea of what the fall out of this will be.These people are not their pet projects and these laws will make it more difficult for people doing this work by choice to access police help or health services.
If they want to save trafficked people why don’t they campagin for the legalisation and registration of sex workers with heavy penaltys for those caught useing non registered workers.And stop closing brothels straight away.They offer at least some protection and closing them forces the workers onto the streets.
God help me but left wing middle class do gooders will be the death of me.
*That’s if right wing blueshirts don’t get me first.
Yeah these people are feminazi leftist puritans.
Prostitution is not illegal in Ireland. Soliciting, brothel keeping, pimping and advertising are illegal, but the act of buying or selling sex is not.
Yup. I have 10 bux.
Sex work once the seller works alone and indoors is actually totally legal in Ireland. It’s just street solicitation and brothel offences (including working in pairs) which are illegal currently.
There’s a real problem that needs attention. A sex worker in Ireland has to work alone and cannot employ anyone at all. Even if a sole trader hires a security guard, her operation is regarded as a “brothel” and is illegal.
If they really cared about sex workers they’d introduce legislation allowing them to hire security.
The laws are so tight that basically the only way to legally sell sex is the most dangerous there possibly is.On your own without any back up or without being able to tell anyone where your going , who your meeting , what your doing , ect. Any sex worker who operates within the law as it stands might as well just call Larry Murphy directly and as him for a date.
These types most likely vote for phoney Joaney’s (free)Labour Party
I don’t see any need for special concessions about how many people can work together and in what way, just because they’re renting their ladygardens and not their brains. We have masses of rules about employment protection, safety at work etc. already. If people are prepared to comply with them, it’s none of our business whether they want to work solo, as 2 women + 1 security guard, or float on ISEQ as Wh0res ‘R’ Us plc.
Emily the Aussies are way ahead of you!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Planet_(brothel)
“Daily Planet is a licensed brothel in Melbourne, Australia. It entered the news in 2003 when it became one of the first brothels listed on a stock exchange. The brothel has won the Australian Adult Industry Award for “Best Brothel Overall” and “Best Brothel Reception & Staff” in the years 2004–2011.[1]”
Australian Adult Industry Award , now there is a quango that people would actually pay to join!
Problem with reviewing Aussie brothels is ,well, they’re Aussie brothels.
Stopped reading at “The Immigrant Council of Ireland”.
What’s wrong with the immigrant council? I thought you were a big lefty feminist.
Moi? Neither the lefties nor the sisters would have me.
One out of three ain’t bad.
If you think the immigrant council are lefty, you are sorely mistaken.
Pontius, you just insulted an entire race. Racist.
The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which. Left-puritanical-authoritarians and right-puritanical-authoritarians are indistinguishable for practical purposes, except in how recently they washed.
Gotta love Orwell.
Actually, you don’t HAVE to. That’d be kinda Orwellian.
No love would be Orwellian.
Not according to Hitchens.
Quote from the ICI’s website:
“The Immigrant Council of Ireland (ICI) is an independent human rights organisation. We advocate for the rights of migrants and their families and act as a catalyst for public debate as well as legislative and policy change.”
Why then are they so obsessed with criminalising the purchasers of consensual sex? To use their own words, I don’t think ‘they’re fit for purpose”.
So if you sell sex yourself is it self harm?
Perfect
If the Immigrants Council is in favour of it, the rational course of action is do the opposite of what they recommend.
Denise Chartlon and her toxic little quango must truly believe they are a special breed if they believe this this legislation will stop the world’s oldest trade.
If our goverment have any sense they’ll ignore these clowns and copy the Australia /NZ model of decriminalisation.
Australia didn’t decriminalise it, they legalised it. Those terms mean different things.
I know what they mean. It actually varies from state to state, but either way, their model is far more progressive then the puritanical Swedish model.
“Australia didn’t decriminalise it, they legalised it. Those terms mean different things.”
*sigh* there’s always one…
The difference is sugnificant. If something is decriminalised it can still be illegal. You can srill be fined. It is still against the law.
Oldest trade in the world , if a woman want to sell sex for a living that’s her choice , legalizing it may actually help with the trafficking problems . What women choose to do with there bodies is there own business . I fail to see how its any different to girls offering it in a plate to any rich guy that pops along or girls having sex for money in the porn industry . Its there choice so make it that way in law and it will stop those being forced into the trade
I wonder did they listen to the sex worker who gave a very good interview on Radio 1 this morning? She is from a well educated background, chose to be a sex worker her self and feels empowered because she is in control over what she does with her body.
Of course the ICI and the rest of them don’t want to hear this, they just want to keep pushing their idiotic ideas and endanger women even more. Does this latest great idea mean that sex workers in Amsterdam, Germany and the Czech Republic are all victims of sexual violence even though they are consenting adults and engaged in a legal business of their own free will?
As for ” incidents where buyers of sexual services carry out physical violence against those working in the sex industry.” Yes there are incidents like this and people have been rightly jailed for them however there are some points to be made.
1. If the client is already a criminal would they be more inclined to commit an act of violence on the basis of being hung for a sheep as a lamb.
2. Could it lead to sex workers blackmailing clients for what would now be an illegal act for which only the client could get charged.
3. If sex work was legalized then incidents of violence would actually decrease as the workers would be off the streets and in buildings where panic buttons and/or security could be provided.
The last point is one that the Stop the Red Light hate hearing as it actually totally undermines their right wing, catholic feminist ideology.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/law-reform-will-make-prostitution-more-dangerous-272810.html
This is an article about the lady on the radio this morning. An interesting point….
“Cork Feminista had invited speakers from the Turn Off the Red Light Campaign (TORLC) which aims to end prostitution, to address their conference. Beginning at 11am today and tomorrow, it will be held in Camden Palace Hotel.
Lady Grew, however, asked the organisers to include speakers from the sex trade to provide balance and she and two other sex workers were added to the bill.
But the move prompted the TORLC speakers to withdraw from the conference.”
What are they afraid of? Logic, reasoned argument, intelligent debate?
‘their right wing, catholic feminist ideology’ You must be joking!! Ivana Bacik and Denise Charlton and the rest of the puritanical feminists who support this campaign can hardly be charcterised as ‘right wing Catholics’. They are an example of typical modern day, holier then thou, cultural relatavist, middle class leftists, for whom say a campign to ban page 3, is more important then stopping female genital mutilation
Apart from that I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your comment.
Scipio you are correct about the lefties (I forgot about them TBH) but there is also the element that I wrote about. Just looking at the make up of the TOTRL I wonder what the hell IRD Duhallow is doing hitching its wagon to them IRDD is supposed to promote “Enterprise and Employment” so what has that got to do with prostitution? Have a look at the rest of the group http://www.turnofftheredlight.ie/about/whos-involved/ .
Wait until they realise that there are transexuals involved in the industry aswell. Their poor little do-gooder heads will explode .
There’s also men involved. Ask the Labour Party if you don’t believe me….
@ Brian Ward
Yes, you are totally correct, TORL withdrew from the conference the minute they found out there would be sex workers present. That tells you everything you need to know about TORL. They knew their lies, myths, propaganda and stereotypes wouldn’t stand a chance when confronted by sex workers.
@ Brian Ward
Turn Off the Red Light’s standard reply when an escort like Kate McGrew speaks the truth is to say that she is in the minority and unrepresentative of the vast majority of ‘prostitutes’ who are coerced into this line of work by one means or another.
Hahahaha, another win for the “Blame men first” brigade. Will all the liberal empty heads please take a bow
If they can’t stop people selling sex then the next option is to stop people buying see, I am sure it will have a big impact on trafficking, if there is a lot less people taken the risk of buying it then a lot less trafficking
Sp all you red thumb numnuts lets hear your take on it,
How exactly are they going to enforce that? Men have been buying sex for 1000′s of years. Will buying drinks at the bar for a woman be seen as “paying for sex”. What about a meal at a restaurant? Your a fool if you think criminalizing the buyer will put a stop to it. Most women on the game do it out of choice as they can make a lot of money very quickly. Go to Germany & look at all the women choosing to ply their trade in clubs & on the streets. They even pay taxes. There are plenty of other countries where it is the same. You want to get rid of trafficking. Its Simple. Make it LEGAL.
Yeah Willy just like how the state banned people from purchasing alcohol in 1920s USA. That worked a treat didn’t it?
Ya ok see your point,
Don’t see that point really
Sex trafficking has nothing to do with consensual prostitution – they are two completely separate issues. The former is a crime whereas the latter is legal. The majority of sex workers work voluntarily. See this report:
If people are being forced into prostitution that is of course sexual violence. Prostitution is not by definition sexual violence. There are several very different issues here.
Only for some dirty perverted men prostitution wouldn’t exist.
You might think it’s ‘perverted’ but a sex drive is actually a natural feature of human beings.
I’m sorry Denise , Ms. SJW why are there male prostitutes then ? Go burn your feminist bra somewhere else
When did the left become such puritans . From a certain point of view, the left are becoming the new right.
It’s men that use male prostitutes you bufffon
I am sure women also do it
you know women also use the red light district in Amsterdam too?
make it all legal and above board. it you dont like it then dont use it.. it’s really that simple.
So Denise,
There isn’t a single male prostitute who plies their trade with women?
Denise get out some more please. The use of male prostitutes by women in the UK is a big industry. Its been going on for years. In Paris you can also see rich women in certain parts of that city openly hire males for the purposes of sex. Its a tourist attraction there. So Denise im sure it goes on in Ireland as well. We live in a strange wonderful weird world & its essential & liberating to embrace it. So Denise why dont you do a social experiment for the Journal & see if you can hire some male or female entertainment for yourself & let us all know how difficult it was or was not.
Ridiculous comment, do you believe no women ever chose it? Bad choice granted, but not always coerced….simply the easiest option for them
Its buffoon.
Once I hear Immigrant Council of Ireland I reach for my revolver. Anybody ask [mediaocricy ?] how much this bunch are creaming of the taxpayer to further their corrupt pc agenda of swamping Ireland with foreigners? Does Charlton live in Tyrellstown [NO DISRESPECT] beside any of her darlings. MEDIAOCRICY in a democracy is supposed to ask these questions.
Denise’s people don’t do open borders when it comes to land disputes with their neighbour Pat Kenny in Dalkey. Her auld pair are very protective about who migrate into their back yard! She doesn’t live in your constituency anyway, Pat!
who can*
Some women do pay for sex and visit sex workers
https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/marie-claire/love-and-life/relationships/a/25276110/ive-spent-40-000-on-prostitutes/
For goodness sake just legalise it.
I thought women fought for the right to determine their own path in life and not have it decided for them.
If a woman wants to capitalise on her body then that is her choice. Whether that be renting herself out for sex, stripping for a living, even surrogacy.
If she made the choice of her own free will then what is the problem?
And by the same token, if a man wants to make a living out of his body, he should have the right to.
Your body is the only thing you actually truly own, so if you want to treat it like an asset then surely that should be your right?
It’s not something I could ever do, it’s not even something I entirely approve of – but its not my place to tell another person what they can and cannot do with their own body. Regardless of how I feel about it.
Obviously I do not support trafficking or exploitation, but if a man or woman chooses this path then they should be protected by law and have to pay taxes. And have to have up to date STI test results available to ensure that everyone is safe.
Ha! Ha! The worlds oldest trade being regulated by the worlds second oldest trade #prostitution & #legalprofession
The sweedish model……isnt sweeden the rape capital of the world…….so much for tackling sexual violence.
Prohibition is the water of Mafia fish and it is better to avoid it where it is possible as the paying sex among adult and consentient people. Moreover, prostitutes’ customers are not in a little number, so politics must pay attention to the votes!
The Immigrant Council of Ireland are like a broken record the way they keep conflating trafficking and sex work.
They are like someone who confuses Kenyans and Nigerians or Latvians and Polish for argument sake just to cause annoyance the way they keep childishly implying that all women in the industry are “for sale” Sex workers in a consensual arrangement are not “for sale”. They are providing a service.
It is absolute nonsense to say that all sex work is violence. It is another example of their half truths and exaggerations. Abolitionists want people to think that all clients are bad similar to how a racist likes others to think that all foreigners defraud social welfare to use an analogy.
The majority of clients are not abusive and the percentage that are is less than that of partners in the general population.
The same subjective criteria that is used against consenting sex work could equally be used against homosexuality or the sale of condoms.
If I go to bed with a guy after he cleans the bathroom is that violence? There is either consent or no consent.
The Justice Committee were not fit for purpose. They are an embarrassment to Ireland. They came across as a collection of people some of which had a bigoted attitude towards sex work from the start and others who preferred to agree with coercive bigots rather than stand up to them.
The views expressed recently about sex work at the Liberal Democratic conference in Britain were a breath of fresh air compared to the backward opinions of the Justice Committee and the Immigrant Council of Ireland.
http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2013/10/07/frequently-told-lies/
I love you for what you are not your money lol
With a sympathetic minister and a lesbian, feminist, catholic, church whipped, anti straight white male who like to have casual sex justice committee they have a very good chance of bringing ireland back to the 50s again. The justice committee. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/oireachtasbusiness/committees_list/jde-committee/members
Sex as a tradable commodity has been in existence since the beginning of human life on earth and I’m pretty sure that it will be the last tradable commodity in existence before planet earth vanishes from our universe.
Great family dynasties have been created and perpetuated by buying the right brides and arranged marriages.
Decriminalize adult sex work as is already dome in New Zealand. I wrote about this earlier this year.
http://paulcarr.wordpress.com/2014/03/06/i-propose-that-we-decriminalize-sex-work-in-the-republic-of-ireland-my-20-point-plan/
Also advertising a brothel and sexual services is illegal. Hence, escort-ireland.com is hosted on a British server.
It would seem than under any version of “Nordic Model” legislation enacted or proposed any sex worker has the right to sue any individual, department, or service that, through action or negligence, leaves her in a position where her only option is to sell sex and perhaps even if they only obstruct her access to a legal alternative to selling sex.
Let me tell you how that works:
Under law all that counts are legal definitions.
The Nordic Model defines the purchase of sex as a crime of sexual violence committed against the sex worker. There is no doubt that placing or leaving a person in a position where they have no reasonable way to avoid being the victim of a crime of sexual violence is actionable in the civil courts.
If there is any element of duty of care involved this escalates.
If cause can be shown to believe the respondant was aware they were creating a situation where the plaintiff could not avoid being the victim of violent sexual crime this many escalate into a situation where criminal charges are also appropriate.
The sex worker does not even have to believe that she has been the victim of a crime of sexual violence because all that counts in law is the legal definition of her position.
The sex worker does not even have to be working under duress as the Nordic Model presumes sex work to be duress in and of itself.
It is a lateral legal loophole you could drive a panzer division through. It needs researching and refining of course, but I think it will hold water and I do not think there is any way to have Nordic Model legislation without creating this situation…and to put the icing on the cake every argument ever put forward by the abolitionist lobby supports the position.
If we cannot block the Nordic Model in any country I would suggest every sex worker seek damages by this means. Class actions against larger services will also be an option.
End result?
Expensive mayhem through the civil courts, against a wide variety of public services and NGOs while bearing in mind that the principle of retro-action in the case of historic sexual offences has already been established under law.
(To give you one example, presenting themselves as the only gateway to relevant resources, by dedicating most of their funding to lobbying in a way all sex workers know to be blatantly untruthful and have conscientious objection to, and thereby obstructing many sex workers who genuinely need help to leave the sex industry, Ruhama Ireland have wracked up a considerable class action all by themselves with a significant potential for criminal charges on several counts including complicit liability in criminal fraud . What is more they thoroughly deserve it.)
I think it is a BRILLIANT idea. So many sex workers will be able to retire wealthy with full adult autonomy…
The question is, how many Governments will appreciate just what a brilliant idea it is?
Food for thought.
http://mymythbuster.wordpress.com/myth-when-in-doubt-blame-the-consequences/
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