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Opinion 'Egg freeze' offer is putting a metaphorical gun to young women’s heads

Freeze in haste, repent at leisure?

FACEBOOK AND APPLE in the US have offered the equivalent of €15,000 to their female staff to freeze their eggs for use at a later date to create a level playing field in career advancement between them and their male colleagues…

I had to give the headline a second glance. I actually checked the date, is it 1 April? No, it’s still October and nearly Halloween. Scary.

A few things have been shaking my faith in all things feminist in recent times but I have to say this one is a shocker. An article in the news this week is effectively saying that these companies are stating that women who work, while also having babies, is not cool – and definitely not good for their careers.

Women, to compete with their male colleagues, have to put motherhood on hold. Women are discouraged from using their eggs at their optimum time if they want to keep their jobs and compete with the boys.

Men, on the other hand I am sure, are not affected if they happen to have a wife at home who is not partaking in this wonderful offer and can be thirty-something-year-old daddies without, presumably, affecting their performance in work.

How about the better idea of tossing a few bob towards childcare and paid support so their female workforce can actually come into work and do their jobs while competing with their male colleagues? Is this playing field altogether too bumpy?

Being an older mother is fine – but it’s harder physically 

What of the physical, not to mention mental, considerations for these women who have parenthood-postponed work-lives? Their frozen eggs may be twenty-something years old but the body and mind they are re-implanted into may be forty-something-plus.

Great. Something to look forward to when you are heading into a possible peri-menopause… a baby. And, as the clock is ticking fast, maybe two or three in quick succession to get them in before your 50th birthday celebrations. After a full-time career, after giving your all, your best years, to Apple and Facebook, you get to go home to have your postponed families.

I am not for one moment saying women should all have their babies on Mother Nature’s clock, but come on, we are physically designed to have them from an early start date. We know more now about fertility than we ever did and there is no disputing the fact that our fertility decreases with every passing year as we age. Our eggs are aging from the day we are born with our full complement in our ovaries.

So, freezing them is quite a good idea in itself. I am all for fertility intervention for women who find it difficult to conceive – and isn’t it wonderful that we have the choice of not becoming a mum until we decide when. We also have adoption and other methods of bringing motherhood to as many deserving women as possible. Well done feminism and general human development.

But there is no disputing the fact that while the frozen eggs may be young and more viable than an egg fertilised at 35 to 40-plus year old women who naturally become pregnant at these ages, the bodies they are going back into have not stayed static. They have aged and the older women will find it less easy, physically and mentally, to be a mum to these babies. I know some women don’t get the opportunity to procreate early or that they delay childbirth – however they are making informed decisions about the risks and their capabilities, finances and support. (And, of course surrogacy can be an option but that is a whole different article.)

What is this saying to young women? 

My problem with this offer is more to do with what it is saying socially to our young women. I thought feminism was about choice after all, but no, it seems that these go-ahead, cutting-edge companies are basically saying – in neon – if you want to have a career and a baby simultaneously, you need not apply to us.

It is putting a metaphorical gun to young women’s heads. Compete as a non-baby producing drone or leave. Compete on a level with the boys. Become one of the boys.

I also think it is a manipulative move as a 20-something, bright-eyed career woman will only see the money and potential clear run on the career ‘level playing field’, encouraging her to take this kind offer without really giving the whole idea of delayed parenthood a second thought as it’s not a priority on her agenda at that point in her life.

Freeze in haste, repent at leisure?

A couple meet up, cohabit or get married and have a family, usually in that order – not set in stone but usually, even in these days of diversity. They work and have families at the same time.

What happened to the fight for choice for women to be capable of working outside the home AND having a family, or to not work and be a full-time mum? Or to not have babies at all or to choose to end a pregnancy? Are all these rights, fought for and hard won, now defunct?

And what if a woman decides to go ahead and have her babies the orthodox way in the meantime? Will she lose her job? Will she have to give the money back? Will she be denied maternity leave?

I really think the corporate world should stick to health insurance and pension plans as perks for their staff rather than handing out financial incentives for baby-delaying.

Carol Redmond is a qualified Life Coach and holds a certificate in psychology from NUI Maynooth. She lives in Delgany, County Wicklow. Read her other columns for TheJournal.ie here

Facebook and Apple pay for female workers to freeze their eggs

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    Mute Stephen
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:02 PM

    Wrong on so many levels.

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    Mute Brian Keelty
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    Oct 17th 2014, 10:13 AM

    For.many many years men/fathers have had to forego time with their children to provide for them…. why shouldn’t women do the same????

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Oct 17th 2014, 1:03 PM

    Ideally, both parents would have options for better work/life balance, rather than enforcing the lowest common denominator.

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    Mute selita
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:44 PM

    It’s sexist and intrusive on a employees personal life. Why not offer fathers paid paternity leave, or both parents flexible working options?
    The majority of women I know including myself, choose to have children (or want to have children) when we met the right person. There is never a right time in your career to have a child. You will either be too low on the ladder or two high.

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    Mute B Collins
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    Oct 16th 2014, 11:07 PM

    I was just gonna say they’d be better off putting the 15k per head to paternity leave so that the role of providing care in the formative months and years can be undertaken by the father (if that’s the choice of both parents). This story is a classic example of “good intentions, bad actions”.

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    Mute Amanda Duff
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    Oct 17th 2014, 11:16 AM

    It’s sexist to allow their female employees to have more options in relation to the timelines of their careers and personal lives?

    Its an extra choice, not a gun to the head.

    Those who do want this option may have been women who would have found themselves making a choice between career and children in the past because honestly, and this is actually sexist that’s a choice women are often forced to make.

    When you say the majority of women you know choose to have children when they meet the right person, its probably good to remember that our social circles tend to be reflective of who we are. The share similar values and ambitions. While this may be the case with the majority of women you know having spoken to some of the women I know they shared my attitude that this was a great move by these companies (women in the early 30′s, with good careers and no children)

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    Mute Fergus Flanagan
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    Oct 17th 2014, 8:09 PM

    They give 4 months maternity and paternity leave. 4 grand in baby money. When you have a baby, they give you money.

    If you don’t want a baby, they’ll free your eggs for free. But you can still have one. And they’ll give you money for it.

    THEY GIVE YOU MONEY FOR HAVING BABIES.

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    Mute wgp
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:12 PM

    Maybe they might soon allow us to freeze the wife so we can have a younger model when we get a bit older!!!!

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    Mute Chief
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:16 PM

    Ice age would kick off again if we did that, freezers plugged in everywhere

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    Mute Sheik Yahbouti
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:27 PM

    Having read the article, I agree with the author – most unusual for me. The real kicker is that, despite advances in technology, nature is not fooled. For many reasons, women are now seeking to become mothers far outside the optimum time for so doing. Both sexes are at their most fertile in their teens and early twenties. This is an inconvenient fact, but a fact nonetheless. Fertility clinics will continue to rake it in the more that couples postpone having children.

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    Mute Ahippo
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    Oct 17th 2014, 12:14 AM

    I agree Sheikh… surely the better solution is for the company to provide high quality child care and adopt family friendly leave and working time policies.

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    Mute Lorem Ipsum
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:05 PM

    If you don’t like the offer, don’t avail of it

    Your flippant dismissal of the efforts of working fathers is disgusting though

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    Mute Thomas Quintis
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:15 PM

    Agree, give these women the credit to be able to make their own informed decision.

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:05 PM

    Agree. I extend this to abortion too. If you don’t approve, don’t have one.

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    Mute Lorem Ipsum
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    Oct 17th 2014, 12:02 AM

    Are there not enough abortion stories on this site for you to talk about it there?

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    Mute thetruth
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:34 PM

    Im pro choice, a very fair minded person. May any marry anyone they love. Let everyone be themselves. But this is too far. These companies dpnt give a rats ass about employess, its about bottom line profits for them. How do they think they can do this. Its obscene

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    Mute Lorem Ipsum
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    Oct 17th 2014, 12:04 AM

    Yeah, another “pro-choicer” who is in favour of the choices they approve of

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    Mute Heather
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:18 PM

    I agree that each woman should be able to choose what she wants in her life, be it a full time career, family or both but I am concerned about the message being sent to current and prospective employees- it seems families and facebook don’t mix yet I don’t see the reason why?

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    Mute The Shineading
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:09 PM

    It’s an option for a woman, simply a choice being offered to her. While I wouldn’t do it that’s the choice many women can now make. So many double standards, don’t have children unless you can afford it, but don’t put motherhood on hold…I really don’t see the outrage here maybe I’m missing something

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    Mute Miriam
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:59 PM

    Jaysus, hello!? What woman brings child into the world to get 6 months off work? It’s much harder than being in work anyway.

    Women were beckoned into the workplace during the industrial revolution to increase output to make profit for companies. Now with everyone technically available industry no longer needs to pay a living wage to sustain a family. They can pay HALF what it costs cos the assumption is that now both parents must work.

    But nowhere in any of this was there any concession made by profiteers for allowing for the fact that there’s now no one at home to mind ALL our society’s children (la la la your problem). So women happen to give birth but this is ALL our responsibility to sort out, communally. It needs to be factored into all business policy as a common problem to be solved. Not “oh shit Paddy’s career is going to fly ahead of mine now I’m outta action.” Paddy and Jack need to give a shit too. It’s called society.

    Unless your Maggie Thatcher.

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    Mute Clare Bear
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:30 PM

    As a young woman I would welcome this option, I might not take it but it does not offend me. I started in my job the same time as a young man, if I were to leave to have a baby and take maximum maternity leave (26 + 16 weeks (unpaid)) I would be out of work nearly a year, I do not in any case see how I would or should be entitled to the same career advancements as my male co-worker who had worked those 10.5 months. If I had 2 or 3 children that puts me nearly 3 years behind him in terms of time spent working, on paper we have been there the same time but we havent spent the same amount of time working. This at least would offer you another option, this gives you a career and children – maybe a little later than you planned but its another option, until Paternity leave is on an equal level with maternity leave I fail to see how women will ever be able to avoiding choosing between career and family.

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    Mute Dublin Living
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    Oct 17th 2014, 9:16 AM

    It’s rather telling that a post such as this by a woman merely expressing her personal opinion is strongly downvoted. I can only assume that this page is being targeted by a group to downvote opinions they disapprove of.

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    Mute Grainne O'Leary
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:54 PM

    Great article! Completely agree it’s outrageous. The fact that they give the options is awful. It’s there and if you don’t use it are you saying your not fully committed to your job???? You’ve put having kids over your job???

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    Mute CAK
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:10 PM

    The package they offer included a longer period of maternity leave than offered in the industry norm. Therefore your comment is void. It is not about how if you don’t use it you are not committed to your job. It is saying if you want to have kids now we’re trying our best to extend how much time off you get (as this is very low in the US) but if you don’t want kids right now or you have worked so hard you haven’t me the right person yet we’re giving you the option to freeze your eggs so mother hood is not completely ruled out. Seems fair to me. Well until we have equal rights for mothers and fathers to take leave like in Sweden – but the US is so far away from that this at least gives a woman another option.

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    Mute Grainne O'Leary
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:21 PM

    True equal rights are needed and true if the person wants to wait for their own reasons they may want to freeze their eggs anyway and then it’s like “hey great company perk” I just think that these companies are so competitive that choosing a family over a job, even if just for a while, can make all the difference at a pivotal time in someone’s career!

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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:17 PM

    I agree that it is a sexist approach by these companies. Why aren’t men being given this money so that they can freeze their sperm and get a vasectomy in the knowledge that they can father a child at a later stage?

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    Mute skin flint
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:25 PM

    Because women are fertile until they’re 35-40. Whereas keith richards fathered a child last year…

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    Mute Brian Ward
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:35 PM

    I would have thought that the whole idea of freezing eggs is so that women could have their tubes tied to ensure that they don’t get pregnant. Otherwise all they have to do is take the pill and use a condom even though there is still a chance of accidents happening. It doesn’t make sense to freeze your eggs if you are still going to rely on non surgical contraception methods now does it?

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    Mute skin flint
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:54 PM

    My understanding was that they would freeze the eggs so women could work hard, build a career and still be able to then have babies in their late 40s.

    I don’t think its to stop them getting pregnant. It just provides them with an opportunity to delay starting a family so their career can come first. Sad and unnatural though if you ask me.

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    Mute Kathy
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    Oct 16th 2014, 10:36 PM

    This comment is hilarious

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    Mute Kathy
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    Oct 16th 2014, 10:38 PM

    This comment is hilarious.

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    Mute CAK
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:49 PM

    Honestly Journal – do you not even have some semblance of a screening process for people who write opinion pieces? This article is complete garbage- its like the author just saw in passing a headline about apple/facebook freezing employees eggs and decided to write an outraged article about.

    If the author had actually bothered to look into these changes they would see that this option was introduced alongside other changes for women – including LONGER maternity leave. so that alone completely refutes the claims by the author such as nonsense about whether women will be denied maternity leave if they don’t freeze their eggs. Eh clearly not.

    Additionally, what is this nonsense about a bright eyed 20 something only seeing money. Why on earth would a twenty year old freeze their eggs? The whole purpose of freezing eggs is because you have gotten to the age where you are not in a position to have kids but will soon have difficulty producing eggs and therefore you need to freeze them as time is running out. This is not a factor for 20 somethings, its only 30 something who would need to start considering availing of this option.

    And its a valid thing to offer – both for women who get so wrapped up in their careers that before they know it they’re in their 30′s without a partner and have no option to have kids. Or a woman who is very career focused and while she doesn’t want to rule out kids doesn’t want them right now – again a very plausible scenario.

    By paying for this process they are being given options when without them the only option is that its too late and they cannot have kids. As such I’m sure any woman in this situation – especially one who has not met their partner would prefer to be an older in body and mind than the eggs – but still being able to be a mother and have a child. I would think these women would take a baby at the onset of peri menopause over never having a child.

    This is an option such as your firm potentially offering you dental – if you have good teeth you might never avail of it but its good to know its there. Same with this, you know its there and its an option if suddenly you find time is running out on you and you need to avail of it.

    This article is ridiculous.

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    Mute Polly Glötte
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    Oct 16th 2014, 11:52 PM

    Sorry you’re comparing TEETH to starting a family? *boggle*

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    Mute CAK
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    Oct 17th 2014, 5:23 AM

    Yes what I said was exactly that – teeth is like starting a family…. well done – you completely got the point.

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    Mute Dublin Living
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    Oct 17th 2014, 8:58 AM

    Exactly. This article reeks of ‘never happy’, she would be just as outraged if companies DIDN’T offer any help to female employees.

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    Mute Shell Leamy
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:18 PM

    Don’t get the outrage about this at all….. Generally women make the choice to have kids in their thirties these days (nobody forces them to do this). However, eggs are not as “healthy” or ” ripe” around this time so freezing some eggs when your 25-30 is probably a good option, although you may not actually need to use them down the line.

    Anyways, this offer was introduced alongside other positive changes too, like longer maternity leave. It’s just an option. There’s NO GUN to anyone’s head.

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    Mute Sean J. Troy
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:44 PM

    I don’t understand how it’s fair that women should expect companies to be cool with them taking months or years out. Men don’t get rights like that?
    If feminism is about equality then they should be against this. There’s nothing wrong with a women conceivably taken a few weeks out to have the kid and then their partner taking a career break to look after the child while the mother goes back to work. If you want to fight the stereotype of women in the home and not allowed to have a career then you can’t claim that it’s wrong when companies are trying their best to make it fair. Especially when they’re sinking a lot of money into it.
    Like it or not, women have the kids. But that doesn’t mean they have to be the primary caregiver. Father’s have atrociously little rights when it comes to this.

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    Mute Grainne O'Leary
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:57 PM

    Yes but your ignoring the fact that women can’t choose which person in the couple have the baby! It was not my choice. (Now I’m delighted I had the experience but it was not my choice)

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    Mute Ailbhe O'Nolan
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:06 PM

    Personally I think both parents should share a given time period. Men should have the option to take time out also.

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    Mute Sean J. Troy
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:09 PM

    I already addressed that. I don’t think anybody would begrudge a woman for taking the few weeks out that she needs to actually have the baby. But after that, why are women being given special treatment for looking after the kid? Why is perfectly acceptable for women to get paid leave for months to raise the child and the dad isn’t? We can’t have a fully equal gender gap because of basic biology. But there’s nothing stopping equality of parenting. I just think it’s having your cake and eating it when feminists argue they want equality in the workplace which of course we should all get behind but then also subscribe to traditional parent techniques which we already know are on the way out. That’s unequal. In an ideal world, women should get equal pay for equal work, equal opportunities for promotion and should be given paid time off to physically give birth to the child. After that though, no. It isn’t fair. Men should get full paternity leave rights if women can get full maternity rights. It may be anecdotal, but there is a lot of abuse in the system too. In school I had a teacher who was there for maybe four months tops over three years because she was constantly on maternity leave. And we were taught by extremely substandard replacements. I’m not saying she had kids to get out of work, but there have to be limits both for maternity and paternity leave. You can’t resonably expect a company to have objective opinions towards who you promote if a person is on constant leave.

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    Mute CAK
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:15 PM

    I agree with you Sean, however the reason why the maternity leave was given to women not men stems from when women would leave their jobs and have the children and mind the house while the men worked. When women started working it became, well obviously as the woman you have to leave work and mind the child while you have it – hence maternity leave. What we need is a totally reformed system like in Sweden where you are given a year off after having a child where it is compulsory for the mother to take 2 months of that and the father 2 months and after that you can divide it as you see fit between you – and you can alter this say if you wanted the mother to take a year for the first child and the father a year for the second child etc.

    I cannot see any woman disagreeing with this type of system as it would lead to alot more equality in the workplace. Unfortunately we are along way from this type of system.

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    Mute Grainne O'Leary
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:16 PM

    Yes, good point. My husband would have really loved to have some/equal time with the baby. That would help too with sharing household duties. I did everything at home when I was off because it wasn’t fair he was working full time (had a very placid baby). It was difficult to adjust when I went back to work. If I was a man I would definitely be fighting for half the mat leave!

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    Mute Grainne O'Leary
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:17 PM

    V true!

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    Mute Sean J. Troy
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:18 PM

    You’re probably right CAK. The Nordic model is the best as it seems to be for nearly everything.
    You need to simultaneously bring in legislation guaranteeing equality of pay and work conditions with a complete reform of the maternity and paternity leave system. It needs to happen at the same time. But how the hell are we supposed to do that when our own constitution claims a woman’s place is in the home?

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    Mute hsianloon
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:31 PM

    Well, most employers would prefer to save money on paying for creches, maternity leave , continuity of work with clients etc….it’s the practical aspects I suppose.

    Harder to give a promotion to someone who has a potential ( several times) to be off a few months at ago when they get pregnant and minding the child after that has been off for a few months vs the person that’s there all the time ? Would be unfair to the others too that they have less leave, and are expected to do as much work.

    Expect red thumbs, just that this is never brought up in discussions for fear of offending women and sounding like a bigot.

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    Mute Heather
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:35 PM

    Very few employers pay for crèches or
    maternity leave and surely clients understand that some people want to have children

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    Mute Anne Marie Devlin
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    Oct 16th 2014, 10:41 PM

    Then allow both parents to share maternity leave. That would level the playing field

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    Mute Nick Beard
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    Oct 17th 2014, 10:00 AM

    Being there all the time doesn’t necessarily make you a better employee. Every office has at least one person who can’t finish their work efficently.

    And Anne Marie makes a great point – raising a newborn is tough and fathers (or non birthing parents) should have to do their share and be enabled by their employers.

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    Mute Tom Red
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:16 PM

    A touch of brain freeze by Apple and Facebook it seems…………….

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    Mute Gabbi Johnson
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:06 PM

    What about if they used a real gun? Those metaphorical ones are so unreliable and 19th century,

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    Mute Polly Glötte
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    Oct 16th 2014, 11:51 PM

    I wonder how many men would actually avail themselves of paternity leave if it was offered to them on an equal scale as to women on maternity leave. Let’s face it, most of us would rather be in a nice clean quiet office sharing a coffee with a co-worker and reading the odd jokey e-mail rather than being neck-deep in dirty nappies and spilled formula. WTF do you think goes on during mat leave, Sean? It’s not all coffee mornings with the girls at Starbucks. Looking after a baby is a 24-7 job and any green-eyed numpty who maithers on about the “unfairness” of “taking time off” to look rear a child instead of “sticking with the company” should spend a week with a newborn. Maternity leave is NOT vacation!

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    Mute Martin Posters Moore Street
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    Oct 16th 2014, 8:08 PM

    Its only an eggsample

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    Mute Zozzy Zozimus
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:05 PM

    Given the abundance of low hanging fruit, I think you could have worked a little bit harder on your pun.

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    Mute Paddy Hannigan
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    Oct 17th 2014, 12:43 AM

    Or at least made an omelette joke.

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    Mute Elaine Fuery
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    Oct 16th 2014, 11:57 PM

    This is disgusting. The issue is not whether the woman has a right to choose or not (which she does, of course). The issue here is the message this move by FB et al sends is very damaging to how women are perceived in the workplace. The companies are basically saying to their female employees is that the only way you’ll be able to progress your career is if you choose your job over your family. Perhaps if there were an option to share maternity leave between both parents, this whole issue would not arise.

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    Mute Silver Planet
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    Oct 17th 2014, 1:46 AM

    They aren’t saying that at all. They’re making a pretty generous option available. If you think you can still contribute to your job and have a family early then go for it. This option is designed to free you from your biological clock. Don’t like it? Don’t use it.

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    Mute CAK
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    Oct 17th 2014, 5:26 AM

    Finally a logical comment silver planet! Too much hysteria around these days.

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    Mute Sknik
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    Oct 16th 2014, 9:31 PM

    From a business/career perspective this is an excellent idea. The main reason women don’t earn as much as men is due to maternal reasons. A majority of today’s self-made* women don’t have their own children. If they had been given an opportunity like this I reckon most would have snapped it up.

    *based on the super rich

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    Mute Lisa Saputo
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    Oct 17th 2014, 8:18 AM

    Has anyone considered that perhaps women may actually choose this option? That they know their own minds and can make their own choices about their own body.

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    Mute Teresa Kelly
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    Oct 17th 2014, 8:33 AM

    Great article but I disagree with the sentiment. I believe many women postpone having children to get ahead in their careers and this could be a great option for them. I don’t find the policy to be discriminatory towards working mothers because no where have I seen them say this is the preferred route. I believe as long as maternity leave and paternity leave exist in their current form, women will remain the primary caregiver and this is why we have less women in director/C-level positions because for many people advancement and being the primary caregiver is too much, and a choice has to be made.

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    Mute Polly Glötte
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    Oct 16th 2014, 11:36 PM

    Sorry but why is it just the eggs that need freezing? Sperm count and quality decreases with age too… it’s not just women who experience decreased fertility with age. What’re Apple & FB gonna do now… freeze the jizz? Totally hare-brained. Oh, and 15K can be better used for in-house free crèche/Montessori instead of parents having to constantly juggle school or crèche run and getting to work on time.

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    Mute Rosie Murray
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    Oct 16th 2014, 10:28 PM

    I think Facebook and Apple and trying too hard!!

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    Mute Fergus Flanagan
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    Oct 17th 2014, 7:34 PM

    I find the reaction to this ridiculous.

    http://www.savemyfertility.org/fact-sheets/preserving-fertility

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