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Finance Minister Michael Noonan and then IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde in 2013. Niall Carson

'The IMF did not sufficiently tailor its advice to countries during the crisis'

An IMF internal review finds that some European authorities thought it was “inappropriate” for the IMF to be seated at the negotiating table.

THE IMF GAVE leading economies faulty advice following the 2008 financial crisis, by directing them to cut spending and rely on central bank stimulus for growth, an internal policy review published today has found.

The review, published by the Independent Evaluation Office (IEO) of the International Monetary Fund, stated that that during 2010-2011 the IMF was premature in advocating austerity policies to countries in Europe, the United States and Japan.

The organisation incorrectly assumed an economic rebound was already underway, the review concluded.

Pump money to stimulate growth 

The IEO said in the lengthy report that simultaneous support for central banks to pump out money to stimulate growth led to troublesome volatile capital flows in emerging economies.

“The IMF was effective in calling for global fiscal stimulus immediately following the Lehman collapse” in 2008, the IEO said.

“But it prematurely endorsed fiscal consolidation in large advanced economies, and, in parallel, encouraged reliance on expansionary monetary policy to stimulate demand.”

“This policy mix was less than fully effective in promoting recovery and contributed to capital flow volatility in emerging markets.”

The report assessed crisis-era policies that remain controversial, especially in Europe, and fuel ongoing political debates as the leading global economies struggle to boost economic growth.

Irish dole payments Ajai Chopra, Deputy Director of the IMF's European Department gives a press conference in the Conrad hotel Dublin. Julien Behal Julien Behal

Downturn 

The IEO noted that as the crisis began to spread globally in late 2008, the IMF became a “leading spokesman” for countries to boost their spending to fight the worldwide downturn.

“Fiscal stimulus was advocated not only for the countries at the center of the financial crisis but also for a much larger segment of the global economy, including euro area economies,” it said.

“The fiscal expansion that followed is widely acknowledged as having contributed to shortening and dampening the recession.”

The report adds that the IMF’s overall record in post-crisis surveillance was “mixed”.

Its calls for global fiscal stimulus in 2008–09 were timely and influential, but by 2010 it had endorsed a  shift to consolidation in some of the largest advanced economies, coupled with monetary  expansion to stimulate demand if needed to maintain the recovery.

The call for fiscal consolidation proved to be premature, as the recovery turned out to be modest in most  advanced economies and short-lived in many European countries.The recommended policy mix was not appropriate, as monetary expansion is relatively ineffective in boosting private  demand following a financial crisis.

Spending cuts 

In 2010 the Fund changed its advice, arguing for fiscal consolidation. The Fund said spending cuts would allow large economies to reduce debt burdens that had mounted during the first years of the crisis.

At the time, the IMF was worried that large fiscal deficits and rising public debt would threaten fiscal solvency and prolong if not exacerbate the crisis, the IEO said.

But the Fund took that stance in the mistaken belief that economic growth in advanced economies would turn positive in 2010.

That turned out to be very wrong, as the eurozone’s plunge back into recession showed.

Irish economy A protest sign on the window of the European Union House in Dublin. PA Archive / Press Association Images PA Archive / Press Association Images / Press Association Images

The IEO said the IMF’s policy focus at the time was also not well-founded.

“The policy mix of fiscal consolidation coupled with monetary expansion that the IMF advocated for advanced economies since 2010 appears to be at odds with longstanding assessments of the relative effectiveness of these policies” in the conditions that prevailed at the time, the report said.

One size fits all 

The IMF did not sufficiently tailor its advice to countries based on their individual circumstances and access to financing  when recommending either expansion or consolidation.

Switching financial gears

The report acknowledged that the Fund, under criticism especially in Europe for advocating austerity, subsequently switched gears as the eurozone economy and the US continued to struggle.

“The evaluation recognises that the IMF showed flexibility in reconsidering its fiscal policy advice when the growth outlook worsened.”

Reporting on how the IMF worked with the European Commission and European Central Bank over these years, the report states as the euro area crisis erupted, the IMF were called upon to provide both policy and  technical support and eventually to assist in providing financing to advanced economies in Europe.

The institutional arrangement that emerged involved a Troika, all to familiar in Ireland, which included the EC, ECB, and IMF.

This was a “novel coordination arrangement” states the report,  in that the monetary authority of the member country in crisis was formally seated on the same side of the table as the IMF.

Moreover, there was an understanding that disagreements would not be raised publicly.

This  arrangement raises questions as to whether it afforded greater traction of the IMF’s policy  advice, or whether it increased the pressure on the IMF to compromise its positions.

Ultimately, such questions can only be answered by examining the context of individual country program negotiations—a task that goes beyond the scope of this evaluation.

The report states that European authorities believed the IMF was “well placed” to put crisis response programmes in place, as the EC and ECB lacked experience.

However, the report finds that other authorities thought it was inappropriate for the IMF  to be seated at the negotiating table alongside the monetary authoity of a member country and was “bad governance”.

- © AFP, 2014

Additional reporting Christina Finn 

Read: Low paid Irish Life workers to get 7% pay rise>

Read: Living abroad, but want to vote? A decision on your rights could be made in the next 7 weeks>

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    Mute Peter Gavin
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:28 AM

    There really is nothing more pathetic than someone who sees a wonderful animal like a lion, rhino, leopard etc and their first instinct is to kill it and cut its head off for their wall rather than just admiring it and leaving it is peace to live it’s life. This man and all the other trophy hunters deserve all the hatred that they get.

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    Mute Alma Bermingham
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:45 AM

    How many wild animals did he kill for trophies? Alot…

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    Mute AN other
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:58 AM

    What about the group that organised the killing, the one that received the 50k? Have they done nothing wrong?

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:58 AM

    He also has previously been in trouble with the law for illegally killing wild animals. His excuse that he thought this kill was legit is rubbish

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:02 PM

    An other, they’ve been charged. Ross, I believe he has a conviction for killing a black bear. He also killed a white rhino which is endangered and is down to single figure in the wild. Absolutely pathetic excuse for a human being.

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    Mute Peter Gavin
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:15 PM

    AN other – I believe those who organised the hunt have been arrested and charged which is good news. The source of the problem though are the hunters who provide the market for these sorts of hunts to be set up in the first place. Apparently shooting a defenseless and unsuspecting animal from a few hundred meters away using a high powered rifle makes you more of a man

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:29 PM

    Peter, I take it you’re a vegan of course…?

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    Mute Peter Gavin
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:38 PM

    No Alan, I’m a meat eater and see no contradiction in that. There is a big difference between killing an animal for food and killing an endangered animal for fun.

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    Mute Fozz
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:41 PM

    Alan, eating cow/pig/chicken meat and killing an endangered wild animal are two completely different things.
    Stop muddying the water with irrelevance.

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:06 PM

    Peter, there are economic reasons why they charge $50,000 for a kill. You don’t “need” to eat big juicy hamburgers that some poor helpless animals have been slaughtered to make. You do it cos you want to, with no regard for the animals themselves. Ultimate hypocrisy.

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    Mute David Conroy
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:09 PM

    I compare these Trophy Hunters to Paedophiles. The only way they can get off is to inflict pIn and suffering on others. Bad Luck to this idiot, his and his families lives are now ruined !

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    Mute Eggy Egson
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:19 PM

    must be sad alan, nobody is biting your useless trolling comments, just get a life man, its pathetic.

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:20 PM

    Well you’re very uneducated the David. Paedophiles by definition don’t get off on the pain and suffering of others (that’s sadists). Paedophiles are (through no fault of their own) attracted to pre-pubescent children. If they act on this attraction (which would be awful) they inadvertently cause pain and suffering. But they don’t “get off on it”. Maybe go read a book.

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:22 PM

    Shut if I was trolling then you just “bit” you pathetic waste of space. But I’m not trolling, I’m pointing out the hypocrisy of not giving a hoot about the mass slaughter of animals daily and crying over one lion. I don’t care if people don’t like it, it’s the truth.

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:23 PM

    *Eggy

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:30 PM

    about its not really the truth

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:30 PM

    *ah but

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    Mute Eggy Egson
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:34 PM

    ^^end of a bell alert^^

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    Mute Gus Sheridan
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:55 PM

    Also was in trouble for a sex offence

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    Mute Captain kirk
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:12 PM

    Why is someone who has a contrary opinion to the noble masses always immediately pegged as a troll on the journal?

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    Mute David Conroy
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:25 PM

    @Alan. Paedos and Trophy Hunters are both predators looking for victims. The hunt gets them off and the pain, suffering and death is their climax. Read up on it Alan !!

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    Mute Margaret
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:59 PM

    Separate arguments Alan …. Get off the stage !

    And I am a vegan !

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    Mute John Weir
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    Jul 31st 2015, 3:01 PM

    The kale feels pain too you w@nker.

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    Mute bings
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    Jul 31st 2015, 3:31 PM

    Let us not forget the number of animal owners who kill, abuse here in this country & get away with it. They don’t even get a serious talking to by the courts. They should all be named & shamed.

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 4:40 PM

    bongs, what kind of animals? rats? or are they not cute enough for you? Serious question.

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    Mute Shanti
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    Jul 31st 2015, 8:51 PM

    Veganism isn’t entirely cruelty free.

    Go out and watch a farmer harvest crops with a combine harvester. Those birds of prey follow the machinery around for a reason. Free food.

    The amount of mice, voles, shrews etc killed by agricultural machinery while farming crops kinda makes the whole “animal friendly” aspect of veganism ring hollow.

    Why not accept that you are human? And your biology is set up to eat a certain amount of meat? Would you begrudge a lion it’s prey? Nature is not kind, and it’s a far greater force than you are, as evidenced by the fact that your body is woefully inefficient at converting plant source omega 3 (ALA and GLA) to the kind your brain needs (EPA and DHA). Plus, we live indoors in a largely overcast country – we don’t get a lot of vitamin D3, and the vegan sources of this are quite limited – the majority of plant source vitamin D is actually D2 which is not utilised in the same way.

    In the absence of the moral argument for veganism, what reason is there to be so high and mighty about a diet fad?

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    Mute Ronan O'Sullivan
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    Jul 31st 2015, 10:19 PM

    That’s totally untrue, people eat burgers because they like them and want to but also because we believe that the source of the meat was bread specifically for eating. We are also of the belief that these animals are killed in the most humane way possible. If this was not the case a good portion of burger eaters would not buy burgers.

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Aug 1st 2015, 1:06 AM

    Jeezuz shanti, if Alan’s tirade for veganism is annoying, yours against veganism is just as bad. Most of the vegans I know are perfectly healthy, without any supplements, myself included. Most of the omnivores I know, are too. Eat a balanced diet and exercise and we’re fine. If gorillas can avoid meat, we can too.

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    Mute Shanti
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    Aug 1st 2015, 2:17 AM

    Ross, with respect – there is a biological need for humans to consume even small amounts of animal produce, there’s certainly no need for humans to eat meat daily. “Most of the vegans you know” is not as significant as the way the human digestive system works, and we don’t convert omega 3 the way animals do. I’m sure you’re aware that carotenoids are the nutrients you get from brightly coloured vegetables, but they aren’t actually vitamin A until they are converted into retinol by the liver? Same thing with ALA and GLA converting to EPA and DHA, the forms your brain needs – they may be fine for now.. Same way plenty of people I know were fine drinking and doing coke every weekend for years – it doesn’t mean they aren’t doing long term damage. EPA and DHA are known as “essential fatty acids” not “optional fatty acids”.

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Aug 1st 2015, 10:55 AM

    So by your rationale, how long before vegans all start showing signs of deficiency and disease? 10 years? 30 years? C’mon I’m interested to know as I haven’t eaten meat in 22 years and I’m feeling fine. How long have I got?

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    Mute Shanti
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    Aug 1st 2015, 4:18 PM

    Well I don’t know exactly what you do eat, how are you replacing your EPA and DHA?
    http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/83/6/S1467.full#ref-39
    Because ALA and GLA won’t give you enough.

    I can’t put a time frame on you personally, but given the importance of these nutrients, it can affect cardiovascular health as well as the brain and mental health. An imbalance of omega 6 (abundant in the plant Kingdom) to omega 3 can produce the symptoms of schizophrenia.

    So by all means continue avoiding all animal products, but much like if you decided to avoid any other essential nutrient, the deficiency will take time to present in a way that you eill notice it. Much like how it took our health service so long to twig that we all need more vitamin D3, they were only looking for signs of rickets – not any of the other many diseases not known to be related to vitamin D3 deficiency. Like arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, osteoporosis, multiple sclerosis, depression, immunological disorders, and certain forms of cancer.
    They reckoned until your bones started bending you were fine because that was the deficiency established by the RDA tests.
    The other diseases take longer to be noticed, and are noticed at blood serum concentrations higher than required to cause rickets.
    Same way being low on vitamin C may mean your wounds take longer to heal or you have trouble absorbing iron – you might not get scurvy, but you’re still not getting enough vitamin C. And it’s still having an adverse effect on your long term health.

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    Mute Shanti
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    Aug 1st 2015, 4:19 PM

    Apologies for typos, obviously eill is meant to be will. And those diseases are now known to be related to vitamin D3 deficiency.

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    Mute Antonov Merinov
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    Aug 2nd 2015, 2:00 AM

    Peter Gavin…Infinite thumbs up❗️

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    Mute David Conroy
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    Aug 2nd 2015, 11:31 AM

    @AN other. With a corrupt monkey in charge of that country, they will not get a chance to spend it !

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    Mute Alan Ball
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:04 PM

    What I find most disgusting about this story is that the man is being vilified for killing the ‘wrong’ lion…apparently in Zimbabwe for 50,000 dollars there is a right lion to kill.The double standards and to be perfectly honest ,hypocrisy, of the Zimbabwean Government is downright disgraceful.I may not live in Zimbabwe,but that lion is as much ‘mine’ as it is ‘theirs’. If we do not take ownership of these animals as an international community we can never expect them to be protected to the extent they deserve.Citing economic reasons as justification for killing Lions, tigers and whales and so many more beautiful creatures is wrong.We should all speak for them because they cannot speak for themselves.

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:59 PM

    Alan, are you a vegan?

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:59 PM

    ie speaking of hypocrisy..

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    Mute Alan Ball
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:31 PM

    No I am not a vegan. I am like a lot of people who are challenged by the issues that arise from the killing of animals,conflicted.I eat meat. I also eat vegetables.I believe there to be nothing ‘wrong’ doing so.I see nothing nice about slitting the throat of a pig in an abattoir.I do not condone the battery chicken system.I have many criticisms of the food industry.
    I also have many opinions on many subjects unrelated to the food industry.I have no problem stating my opinions when I feel I should and do not hide behind avatars or make ridiculous statements or ask stupid loaded questions to elicit responses that I can then contest ,regardless of whether or not I truly mean what I say in response to those responses.You cannot say the same.That renders your question quite pointless. If you had qualified the reason for asking you may receive a level of respect that you should be entitled to in the comment section ,rather than be ignored for reasons that you may never understand.I am affording you respect for your question that some would not.Perhaps you have a more rounded response to give me now..or not.Only you know the answer to that question. If you have ,please feel free to offer it.

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:37 PM

    Hey Al, why are you attacking people that want to see the right thing done?

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    Mute Alan Ball
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:47 PM

    Point taken Dave. But I am old school.If your going to say something ,say it,but say it all.You cannot give a full answer to half a question.I think it causes arguments,not discussions,which I imagine you would agree are non productive,arguments that is.

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    Mute Shanti
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    Jul 31st 2015, 9:12 PM

    True Alan. Very small numbers of this species left on the planet now so it’s a little different to the likes of livestock – who’s numbers are far higher as a result of their role in agriculture than they would be left to their own devices.

    We kill plenty, and we excessively breed in order to kill plenty. But unless you went out and picked every single part of your meal from the ground yourself you could never guarantee that your meal was cruelty free, it’s willfully ignorant to claim it was.

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    Mute Greg Ward
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:24 AM

    I’ve something to say to him too. Mainly f’s

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    Mute John Staunton
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:38 AM

    Drop him off in the middle of the Zimbabwe park without his bow and arrows and see how he gets on.

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    Mute Deirdre Forde
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:10 PM

    Even with a bow and arrow, he wouldn’t last a day. His venture cost him $50k for a reason. A lot of work goes into making these people feel powerful.

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    Mute Cupid Stunt
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:31 AM

    the guy isn’t so brave now, he’s a fugitive from the law now. if he hasn’t done anything wrong as he sees it, then why doesn’t he turn himself in? its poetic justice.

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    Mute Fozz
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:43 PM

    Has he broken any US law though?
    And we know the US are far from keen on the extradition of their own – especially wealthy white folks to third world backwaters.
    I’d be curious to know what charges he could face in a US court?

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    Mute Conor Walsh
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:23 PM

    Well he didn’t commit the crime in the U.S.

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:31 PM

    Did he bring the head back? was it declared? it’ll be something along those lines I’d say

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    Mute Shanti
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    Jul 31st 2015, 8:55 PM

    They have many restrictions on hunting in the US, I’d imagine luring an animal away from its protected enclosure would count as illegal there too.

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    Mute Phil Quinlan
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:47 AM

    Palmer should face justice but so should the gamekeepers that took the $50k off him…

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:06 PM

    They’ve been charged already

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    Mute Sloop John G
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:57 AM

    Can’t see many people wanting to go to THAT dentist again

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:04 PM

    I view this man no differently than lots of other dentists who are happy to have innocent helpless animals slaughtered so they can enjoy a hamburger. Disgusting

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:35 PM

    Oh look, a cranky vegan in its natural habitat.

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:58 PM

    Alan shut up ffs, you’re doing a disservice to vegans everywhere. This is not the place to be picking a fight with meat eaters who want to protect endangered animals. Pick a fight with hunters instead

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    Mute Infidel
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:07 PM

    Ye Alan at least wait till the heat dies down on this one before highlighting the vast hypocrisy of the keyboard activists.

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    Mute Shanti
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    Jul 31st 2015, 9:04 PM

    And the hypocrisy of veganism? When do we get to that?
    Far more animals die because of harvesting crops and ripping down forests to plant them than ever do through meat.

    There’s too many of us, no matter what we do we are going to end up killing because we are one of the few species that seems to utterly destroy our own habitat.

    Veganism is a nutritionally unsound dietary fad. And one based on selective morals. Sadly, your morals don’t trump your biochemistry.

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Aug 1st 2015, 11:07 AM

    Shanti, that’s BS. So much livestock, worldwide, are fed with grains and crops- Ireland is one of the exceptions with our grass fed livestock. The forests cut down to provide land will be for livestock or livestock feed, not for vegans. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/is-the-livestock-industry-destroying-the-planet-11308007/

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    Mute Shanti
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    Aug 1st 2015, 4:23 PM

    Er, Palm oil?
    Responsible for the destruction of plenty of species habitat and affecting orangutans..
    That’s not for livestock.

    And as for the fact that animals are fed crops it just goes to show there’s no such thing as a cruelty free meal. So why not Base your diet upon what your body requires to function rather than an ideal which is entirely impossible to attain?
    We certainly don’t need nearly as much livestock as we currently have. People should eat *less* meat than most do. But cutting it out altogether is to deny your own biology. And to do it purely out of concern for animals is short sighted.

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Aug 2nd 2015, 11:56 AM

    “Far more animals die through harvesting crops and ripping down forests to plant than through eating meat..”
    Over 56 billion farmed animals are killed every year for meat.
    And you counter this with palm oil?

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    Mute Shanti
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    Aug 2nd 2015, 2:47 PM

    You’re countering anything with factory farming?
    Do you not see the inherent contradiction in your own statement?

    If we didn’t farm livestock.. The numbers of sheep, cows, and chickens in existence would plummet. Why? Because their numbers at present are artificially high – precisely because we farm them. So just think – a large chunk of those lives woukd never have even existed in natural circumstances.

    Now. In that one section of rainforest cleared to plant palm oil – which is for human consumption, how many avian, rodent, simian, etc animals were killed? There’s no wildlife around the palm plantation – what, so because there’s no official numbers taken you wish to ignore it? There’s animals in those forests we are still discovering even exist – but they’re being wiped out in the name of palm oil. Yet you think factory farming – where the birth of that animal was facilitated specifically for their death, is worse than destroying countless species natural habitat?

    You realise that the only reason you can even quote a figure to me is because of money. Do you have any idea what the wild population of rodents is? Do you care? Because they would far outnumber your livestock.. 2 rats can produce anything up to 20 kittens in the space of 24 days and they go on heat immediately after childbirth, their kittens are sexually mature at 6 weeks. Mice are roughly the same.
    But oh yes – they’re “vermin” aren’t they? Those creatures who are actually obsessively clean and havecomplex systems for keeping their burrows clean, are “filthy, diseased vermin”, so most animal rights heads and vegans really don’t care about them. They don’t care that mice sing each other love songs that become more complex as time passes. They don’t care that rats laugh and come back for more when you tickle them, or are as affectionate as dogs when kept as pets. They’re “pests”, so no one bothers to count how many of them are decapitated or plain old hacked apart by farm machinery. We don’t care how many foxes, hares and rabbits are shot. Same goes for pheasants and nobody cares for the avians.

    So please, don’t try to claim that veganism is high and mighty. Unless you went and grew your own food and picked it all by hand yourself, no one can claim there is no blood on their plate.

    (and FYI, I’m not claiming we need to eat as much meat as we do, and that 56 billion could do with some reduction – but do bear in mind, you would never be saving those animals. Merely preventing them from being produced to start with).

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Aug 2nd 2015, 4:29 PM

    You’re totally missing the point. I’ve never claimed veganism to be high and mighty or totally cruelty free. I recognise that crop farming will inadvertently kill wildlife. But you try and infer that crops are only for vegans? Or palm oil is for vegans? Like no meat eaters use palm oil?! The majority of crops are grown for livestock! The majority of forest cleared is for crops for livestock! Thus wildlife killed because of forest clearance and crop harvesting is mostly for livestock!! Do you not get it? Eating meat is killing the planet. One acre of land can feed 18 times more people if plants are grown, over raising livestock. I’ve never claimed veganism to be high and mighty – you just naturally got defensive. I only said that your claims that veganism kills more animals than meat eating is absolute bo llocks

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:47 AM

    He paid $50k to hunt the lion, now he should be made pay $1 million to an African wildlife trust.

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 4:42 PM

    That’s some flawless logic there Chris… ….

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    Mute Mícheál
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:04 PM

    The real sad outcome of this story will be in a couple weeks when the media has moved on the status quo will return, lions, rhinos, elephants, leopards even giraffes will all be killed again for sport, thats the sad part about this story IMO.
    sharks being hunted to the edge of extinction, Whales too and now plankton is eating fxcking plastic. theres 6 billion humans on this 4.5 billion year old planet, its been 2-3 hundred years since the industrial revolution and people believe animals need to be culled…

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:07 PM

    over 7 billion now

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    Mute Shanti
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    Jul 31st 2015, 9:09 PM

    Humanity is sadly responsible for utterly overdoing it. The rate of extinctions is going at an astronomical rate, so for trophy hunters to be killing endangered species for fun is just disgusting.

    We already kill more than enough animals, the only time I can be accepting of hunting is by someone who will at the very least respect the animals being by making use of everything – if they dont need it, they have no need to kill it.

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    Mute Pádraig Staunton
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:27 AM

    Is this still a Mane story? Surely there are other head lions to report now?

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    Mute Beano
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:34 AM

    It doesn’t get any funnier the more times you say it

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    Mute Nicholas J Campbell
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:00 PM

    Disgusting. I hope he gets serious repercussions. Great hunting man. I guess caged animals are all the rage now. I really really think you should be tied up and left to the other lions. See how unfair it is to be hunted in captivity. Waste of evolutionary progress. Knocking us back.

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    Mute Alan White
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:36 PM

    Nicholas, are you a vegan?

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    Mute Deirdre McDonnell
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:20 PM

    Amazing how Donald Trumps son gets away with what he did. Cut the trunk off an elephant while it was alive. Throw the pair of them in middle of Syria and see what happens.

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    Mute John Fitzgerald
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:49 PM

    Why do some humans feel the need to inflict suffering on animals for “sport”, when there are so many alternative and equally challenging forms of recreation to keep us happy and fulfilled?

    I can understand people hunting for food, to survive, as was the norm in past centuries. The Native Americans, for example, killed buffalo to feed and clothe themselves, in contrast to the colonising Europeans who shot the animals from passing trains and left them to rot in the open countryside.

    Recreational killing of animals is an obscenity that demeans our species. And it isn’t limited to any one nation or continent. Spain has bull fighting, in which a powerful creature is reduced to a whimpering hulk by repeated stabbing with lances prior to its agonising death, and we Irish inflict an array of tortures and indignities on animals.

    Right now, Minister Heather Humphries is considering whether to grant a license for another season of enclosed hare coursing. If she gives it the go-ahead, thousands of these gentle creatures will be forced to run from greyhounds at venues nationwide. Again, humans will derive pleasure from the terror, suffering, and ultimate demise of animals.

    The wily fox will serve as the butt end of another joke that calls itself a sport. And driven shoots are organised, not to fill the larders or the dinner plates, but to enable well heeled gun slingers to calmly blast semi tame birds or animals at close range, a supposed re-enactment of warfare except that the enemy can’t shoot back.

    I wonder if the man who killed Cecil the Lion had any misgivings before or after the “sport”, if he was moved in the slightest by the sight of that proverbial King of the Jungle brought low and destroyed for a few minutes’ fun.

    Looking at the pictures of that majestic creature, its body hacked to pieces, I am reinforced in my view that the best way to shoot an animal is with a camera.

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    Mute Jeans Jeanie
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:29 PM

    anyone who harms an animal for amusement should be jailed, simple as. Wish our Irish government would make a statement on this illegal act & put the pressure on to jail these men – something that people actually care about rather than wasting time asking corrupt politicians questions we already know the real answers to!

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    Mute Stephen Harding
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:57 PM

    Should we petition the White House to return David Drumm

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    Mute Inanimate Carbon Rod
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:05 PM

    Top idea! 100,000 signatures needed in 60 days or less and then the White House issues a response. Democracy bitch!

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    Mute Luke Campbell
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:27 AM

    The Conservation-anator

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    Mute Elma Phudd
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:40 AM

    No

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    Mute Luke Campbell
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    Jul 31st 2015, 9:25 PM

    Not my finest hour i must admit

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    Mute John Payne
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:11 PM

    This comment made me laugh more than your attempted joke….still funny though

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    Mute Mark Carroll
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:36 AM

    ‘Get to the choppa’

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    Mute Cynical Samwidge
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:41 PM

    Guns are for pussies!/next time use a knife ya BIG MAN, see how far u get!!! #catshit!

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    Mute Living Abroad
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:22 PM

    What about Donald Trump´s sons??? disgusting dirty animals too.

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    Mute Janice Russell-Kelly
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:32 PM

    Why call them animals? Animals wouldn’t do such a thing…

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:36 PM

    ‘Disgusting dirty human animals’, you mean..

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    Mute Living Abroad
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:45 PM

    Sorry my bad… that´s what I meant to say!

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    Mute Shanti
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    Jul 31st 2015, 9:16 PM

    How’s about “disgusting human filth”?

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    Mute Rashers Tierney
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:41 PM

    Well I never thought I’d see the day when I’d be saying “fair fecks to ya, Arnie”, but there you go, it’s a funny old world. My only experience of hunting has been the great “wuzzer fights” of the seventies, conducted in offices across the country, so I can’t pretend to understand all this “man, the hunter” shite. Nonetheless, EVEN if you accept game hunting, this turd broke the rules – and quite deliberately – he deserves every ounce of crap that is heading is way.

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    Mute John Tierney
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:39 AM

    Would be great if Schwarzenegger and Gervais could show the same ire for this killing
    http://jrnl.ie/2245760

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    Mute Foghorn Leghorn
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:44 AM

    Predictable contrary journal comment right on time.
    People are allowed to be appalled by this, we shouldn’t have to do a grief audit to make sure we only get bothered about the absolute worst things

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    Mute AARO-SAURUS
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:49 AM

    It is possible to be appalled by more than one thing. The joys of having more than one brain cell.

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:58 AM

    While the use of a Palestinian story is typical journal.ie fodder, there is a point in regard to the amount of human suffering that goes unreported while the whole world mourns the death of a cat.

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:02 PM

    “The death of a cat” ffs, its a lion, one of only 20000 left in the world. You’re obviously not that bothered by extinction of large mammals, no?

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:02 PM

    For example, Boko Haram are still on the go, ramsacking communities and slaughtering innocents wherever they go.

    Boko Haram have not been mentioned by this website in over 3 months!!

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:05 PM

    not true, they were mentioned in the article about the Al Queda leader that’s been dead for two years.

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:07 PM

    Ross I can guarantee you that I do care about endangered animals, but there are hundreds of species more endangered than the lion, including many in Ireland.

    This is not about comparing horrors but about the role of journalism.

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:08 PM

    Fair enough Dave, I was relying on the website search function.

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:18 PM

    There are species with lower populations than the lion, but I’m curious to know which ones are in Ireland?

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:49 PM

    Difficult question to answer precisely considering that there are very few endemic Irish species. There are 29 species that are endangered in Ireland and many more that have suffered significant population declines. In some cases there are healthy population of these animal outside of the country and in others the Irish population is seen as significant to the survival of the species (e.g. the otter).

    So, fair enough, it is not a straight comparison with the Lion (it was not intended to be) – but the argument of endangerment (and technically the lion is not endangered) does not justify the media taking their eye off more significant stories.

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    Mute Mark Collins
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:52 PM

    The corn crake and grey partridge for too I can certainly look up some more if you want .

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:07 PM

    ‘Significant stories’ – that’s a subjective phrase- significant in whose opinion? Boko haram is significant to those affected or interested, Irish news is significant to Irish readers, this lion murder is significant to those who have in interest in the preservation of world species and those who work with lions and I guess pretty damn significant to lions!
    But if you’re looking for the major world news stories, I don’t know why you’re on the journal. A luas accident will get front page over an atrocity in Palestine any day

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:19 PM

    Mark, while those species may be low in Ireland, their global populations are healthy with grey partridge at 4million+ and corncrake at over half a million, significant numbers being in Russia. I seriously doubt there are any species that live in Ireland with populations(global) less than 20k

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:34 PM

    and does that search mentions or just headlines and tags Eel? Seems you didn’t bother to look very hard at all before making a false statement

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:18 PM

    Take a chill pill Dave

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    Mute Rashers Tierney
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:51 PM

    Can I ask, ‘Knack’, what exactly are YOU doing about these matters, other than to deplore people not gas bagging about them?

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    Mute Eel Knack Mole
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    Jul 31st 2015, 5:57 PM

    This is the Journal website Rashers, if you can’t gas bag here, where can you?

    Anyway, what are you talking about? If it’s endangered Irish species, I support some organisations and campaigns etc., if it’s Boko Haram, well I suppose I don’t do much to stop their deadly onslaught.

    Presumably Rashers you are part of that South African Expendables style brigade who are bringing the the fight to Boko Haram, because unless you are, then by your own criterium, you are not allowed comment on them either.

    I’m off to acquire some M16s and an armoured personnel carrier. I’ll be back in a few weeks with the right to comment once I have tackled Boko Haram head on.

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    Mute Neil Thomas
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:09 PM

    Hello, lady who put the cat in a wheelie bin? You’re off the hook!

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    Mute Aaron Burns
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:04 PM

    As awful as this is, I think Africa has much bigger problems that need addressing

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    Mute Ross Stewart
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:21 PM

    I doubt lions agree with your opinion

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    Mute Gavin Mckenna
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:08 PM

    Cecil the Lion has taught me two things.

    The internet loves cats, and people feckin hate dentists.

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    Mute Jack DaCosta
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:30 AM

    Shut up you big steroid balloon.

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    Mute John
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:54 PM

    While I think these hunters are beyond contempt the idea of a country led by Robert Mugabe taking the high moral ground is also beyond contempt.

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    Mute AntiTreeHugger
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:07 PM

    Well here’s a mission for animal right activists. Why don’t they protest against this man outside every place of work he owns. This is horrendous what happened here. This man needs to be held accountable.

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    Mute Rashers Tierney
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    Jul 31st 2015, 2:43 PM

    Do you see the news at all, dear? That is exactly what they’re doing – they are even picketing his holiday villa in Florida – what more are you suggesting should be done?

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    Mute Fran Cowzer
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:42 PM

    No need to extradite if he’s keen on competing put him in unarmed one on one against a lion if he wins no problem if he loses no problem

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    Mute Permo Dermo
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    Jul 31st 2015, 3:24 PM

    how about this dentist has his teeth exrracted without anaesthetic as punishment – they could be mounted and displayed in a museum somewhere

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    Mute Pádraig Staunton
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:30 AM

    Is this still a Mane story? Surely there are new head lions by now

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    Mute sonny black
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    Jul 31st 2015, 11:36 AM

    For the love of god please stop.

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    Mute Oscar Brophy
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:07 PM

    das it mane

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    Mute Oscar Brophy
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    Jul 31st 2015, 12:05 PM

    I said “Arnold Schwarznegger” to Siri the other day, Siri thought I said “Orange shorts ni***r”

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    Mute Paul Riordan
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    Jul 31st 2015, 8:49 PM

    Hope he’s extradited and thrown into a s hithole jail for 20 years.

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    Mute neuromancer
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    Jul 31st 2015, 1:54 PM

    Rubber baby buggy bumpers

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    Mute Sternn
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    Jul 31st 2015, 4:58 PM

    It’s too bad he shot the popular lion Cecil and not his ugly, less popular cousin Frank.

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    Mute Arnie
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    Aug 2nd 2015, 4:22 PM

    Well, this takes a lot of the heat off that white woman pretending to be black a few weeks back…

    Actually, don’t you feel a bit silly about getting so worked up about that now?

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