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The Daily PollFINE GAEL IS divided on whether to call a general election before April 2016, the Sunday Independent reports.
Support for the party has fallen by 4% in the last month according a new opinion poll.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny is staunchly opposed to an early election, according to the paper.
However, plans are afoot within the party to either draft next year’s Budget and call an election, or hold one after positive measures start to kick in at the start of 2016.
We want to know what you think: Should a general election be held before April 2016?
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Sometimes I do have to laugh at Catholicism. A religion based on the ideology and teachings of the most liberal, humble & charitable man to ever walk the face of the earth staunchly followed by the most conservative, pompous, arrogant, deluded sections of society. Jesus threw the Pharisees out of the temple for their grandiose notions of self worth, yet here we have 115 half dead men draped in cloaks, with personal tailors, in palaces, stuffing their faces with the best food and drink whilst trying to elect a new leader to reside over the most oppressive and corrupt regime on the planet, and one responsible for crimes against humanity – Jesus woud be spinning in his grave if he saw what was going on and how were using his name to further their ideology. Sometimes I wonder about the intelligence of this planet with crap like this. It’s a load of men in a room politically electing another man, nothing more!
*how SOME were using his name……
Diarmaid you have said perfectly exactly what I have been thinking, thank you, very well put.
“Jesus woud be spinning in his grave”
He doesn’t have a grave.
It’s meant to be ironic and metaphoric!
Damocles, are you referring to his supposed ascension?
If you can contradict any part of what I said, I will withdraw the whole remark!
No, to His actual ascension.
I do actually agree with Diarmaid to an extent. The essential message of Christianity is one of peace, love, charity, tolerance and understanding. But we don’t see much of that anywhere in the modern world.
That’s quite sad.
We especially don’t see it in the church, that’s my point!
We do see it in some people within the Church. For some people, though, their faith is used as a stick to whack people over the head with. For some people actively of no faith that lack of faith is also used as a stick to whack people over the head.
There is more christianity in someone like Colm O Gormans left toe than the whole conclave put together, that’s what I am saying. If you listen to the ramblings of people like David Quinn, John McGuirk, Richard Waghorne and many many Church officials, they tick none of the boxes of the actual conditions of Christianity.
Well just to clarify I never said I had no faith, I deliberately spoke about Jesus like he existed. I have buckets of faith, just none in organised religion!
Damocles what faith do you place in the teachings of Thor, Odin, Zeus or Jupiter?
Absolutely Diarmaid, many people who set themselves up as being the epitome of Christianity aren’t.
I couldn’t agree more.
Diarmuid,
Very well put. But also take point that these men and their predessesors have openly edited the bible and its teachings to suit themselves.
Whole gospels were removed and/or had their contexts changed.
Thanks Barbara and Ruairi, I don’t want to offend anyone but I do believe many many people need to wake up!
How do you know Jesus ‘exists’?
This is particularly the case in the US where hard-core christiantiy goes hand in hand with conservative politics. If anything the Jesus character in the bible was a socialist. Camels and needles come to mind.
Enough said: http://alturl.com/vqrmu
@Marsist The belief in the existence of Jesus is entirely an opinion. I would neither judge someone who does or doesn’t as long as they don’t use their individual beliefs to oppresse and mock others!
Hear hear
Excellent post Diarmuid indeed!
Any time I ask some of the zealot ones on here about the wealth of the Vatican and their bank, and how Jesus kicked the moneylenders from the temple I get silence in response. This post shows how a great idea can be corrupted and destroyed by power and greed.
Somehow I doubt whomever the new Pope will be will make any changes which is extremely sad.
Welcome to day 2 of POPE FACTOR the search continues.
So we can expect another thread of people claiming:
The entire Church is a web of deceit, corruption and child abuse that has no place in modern life.
Religion is a big con that is used to quell the masses that only they among a few enlightened individuals have been able to see through and that anyone who hasn’t seen through it is an utter tool who condones deceit, corruption and child abuse.
And that no one cares about this.
*SPOILER ALERT* Damn, I was looking forward to the rehashed arguments, thanks man.
Just like we can expect more arrogant religious folks mock the intelligence and question the motives of descending voices eh?
“dissenting”.
Not that I’m mocking your intelligence at all.
Indeed – written quite fast ;)
@ Damocles
Slightly one sided there Damocles but then there’s not a day goes by when you aren’t pontificating about something on here.Do you even have a life outside of the Journal??? From the looks of it the answer is no,very sad indeed!!!
I think the comment (just above) proves exactly what you were saying, – Damocles
“Do you even have a life outside of the Journal?”
I’ve barely even read this site in a few weeks.
Zoe I think pretty much any of your comments on this subject,proves “MY” point,that most zealous,religious types are truly nuts,only confirmed further by your nonsensical ramblings!!!
Thanks Ru,
– you sound like a very fair, & tolerant individual yourself…..
I’m a very fair and tolerant person Zoe,just not when it comes to things that I know are BS or when somebody tries to defend the indefensible.Although it must be said that between yourself and Mother Superior Mc Elligott,you both do a fine job of providing clear examples of zealous religious insanity.
Cardinals prepare for second day of naggins to elect new pope
Dressed in red to symbolize the blood they are willing to spill.. History shows us it’s not their own blood that they spill!
If it’s for a position that is deemed by the church to be ‘infallible’, surely the vote should have to be unanimous?
Everybody seems to get this wrong, the Catholic Church only claims to be infallible on certain teachings such as the divinity of Jesus. Issues such as non married priests are only traditions and laws which can be changed.
This news just in…
…
…
There is no news!!
Yawn…
It’s a pity Gavin that you could not construct an article without the term “paedophile priests”. It has become a term of abuse, but perhaps accuracy is not valued, 85% of the woeful abuse was post pubescent.
Let me also assure you that the vast majority of the 1.2 billion Catholics, are not looking for the media driven change agendas listed above. We are much more interested in freedom for all faiths to practice around the world, issued of suppression in the Middle East, issues such as support for the poor around the world. Freedom for the hidden Catholics of china to practice freely would be of much more interest to Catholics, rather than any redefinition of what Christ showed his apostles, and us through scripture and the apostolic succession.
Your line about post pubescent is like a mirror image of a line from Father Ted – a comedy show – I kid you not! “Say theres 200 million priests in the world and 5% of them are paedophiles, that’s still only 10 million”
@ Diarmaid Twomey
I agree with you, one is too many. But the term paedophile priests is abusive, because it is inaccurate.
If we take the logic further, we know that one of the highest rates of pedophilia is among stepfathers, should we therefore ban all women with children from entering new relationships? The abuse by stepfathers is much bigger than all of the abuse by priests on young persons!
By the way, Fr Ted is just a comedy show, not a yardstick for life or religion.
But why bother rising to this today, we await our new holy father. Let the begrudgers begrudge. The presence of 6000 additional journalists in Rome, indicate the interest the whole world has in this selection. Yes it is partly political, and there are internal discussions between the cardinals, but that is also, we pray, faith building on nature.
Paddy, it doesn’t matter if they were pre or post pubescent, if they were under the age of consent it’s still child abuse, it doesn’t matter if it fits the exact definition of paedophilia. Bringing up technicalities when describing criminal abuse – your church leaders would be proud of you!
Just to point out Paddy, Ispini took the words out of my mouth, and, 6000 journalists are in Rome, yes, but did you ever think they’re in Rome displaying to the world the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church. Don’t fool yourself into thinking they are all there out of love for the church, they truly are not! If your only comeback is that I am a begrudger, you have no argument. As already outlined I do have faith, bucket loads of it, just not in the church or it’s instruments of oppression!
@ Ispíní Ó Cathaláin
Well Ispíní, I agree it was child abuse, and awful. You’ll get no disagreement from me, or I expect from the church. But elements of the media who use that awful term, are inaccurate, and intent only on doing as much damage as possible to the church. This type of unfair exaggeration and inaccurate terminology is damaging to the victims of abuse, because it takes away from the ongoing serious discussion that needs to be happening.
@ Diarmaid Twomey
I understand well your point about the 6000, however we were only discussing interest in the events. The experience internationally is that journalists, even the purely secular ones, tend to be fair in reporting such events. One of the last bastions of apparent exclusive anti church reporting in general media is here in Ireland. We are given the most irreligious, religious corresponds in Europe. People like Patsy McGarry, who proudly proclaims reporting fairness to all, except Fianna Fáil and the Catholic Church.
agree Paddy,
hundreds of comments of hostility here daily.
I would be concerned if the animosity moved from ‘clergy’ – on to ordinary ‘catholics’
I know many personal examples from my own family, who recieved great help & assistance, from the church in times of need
We need as a society to also weigh up the good done by the church, – not just the bad.
I don’t think anyone would becry the good done by the church, however, sadly it is mostly those who are ostracized by the church that do the good – those priests who speak out against the cover up of abuse and the corruption within the Vatican are censored! How can anyone with a degree of intelligence have faith (no pun intended) in that system?
@ Zoe Daly
Succinctly put Zoe.
@ Diarmaid Twomey
I’m afraid Diarmaid you are viewing the facts through the lens of your own prejudices, which I’m sure you will find some link to reinforce. There isn’t, and never was, any support for the tyranny these criminals carried out as priests. Furthermore the bishops who were negligent by their ignorance and misappropriate delaying, were not instructed to do so by Rome.
You should know our Faith is in Christ, and ignorance is an accusation that has a habit of rebounding on its originator. We have faith in the system, as you put it, because is was founded by Christ. But I’m sure all of that is filtered by that lens of yours.
Ironic, that the “christians” on here are the ones who get personal don’t you think Paddy? I have a lens alright – it’s called objectivity, when wrong is done it’s wrong, regardless of the fact that some fellas in Rome think they are above it! And by God have the Catholic Church done wrong! Just accept it and learn some humility! Are you honestly telling me there is no irony or hypocrisy in a religious institution dominated by conservative right wing followers preaching the word of the most liberal socialist man ever to grace Earth, and all the while falling over their leaders who live in palaces with their own tailors, preaching the word of a man who casted the Pharisees from the temple? Maybe you should brush up on the history of Christ yourself Paddy before you insult those who don’t share your view!
@ Diarmaid Twomey
All of what I said was based on your comments, it was you who used the ignorant label.
You claim objectivity, and of course humility, wouldn’t that be fresh. You, and many others, claim the church is conservative? What a load of rubbish. Have you looked at the churches social teaching, they would make the left look central! In a western world fired by it assault on the pre-born, the radical view is to consider life precious, I am among the radicals, it is you who are in support of the status quo.
I didn’t see any over opulence in JP2′s coffin, or the accomodation provider for the cardinals tonight. The budget of the whole Vatican is about 1/10 of that of a modern university. The wealth you gloat after, are the artworks they paid for to give glory to God. These same artworks are available to all to view, unlike those whisked off into private collections.
The reason the church is experiencing explosive growth in the poorer parts of the world, is because the people love the priests and religious. Whereas here in Europe, we can barely take our gaze off of “call of duty”, or “Black ops 2″, for long enough to blame the church for our miserable existence, and ask our mummies for our dinner!
I don’t even need to reply to that comment, you’ve shot yourself in the foot. You have a horrible view of the world and humanity, I truly pity you I’m afraid. So because I don’t believe in organised religion I get my mummy to get my dinner and I play black ops – dear God Paddy, read a book and educate yourself!
By the way, can you show me the line where I called people “ignorant”?
Since all the cardinals have had to take a solemn oath of secrecy, we can conclude from the speculation that either
(a) the cardinals don’t take solemn oaths all that seriously, or
(b) it is horseshit.
Day 2 in the Big Papa House
So tired of this circus already, I wonder how much it’s costing?
That’s the Vatican’s problem.
I do object to RTE sending half its staff on a jolly to Rome with licence payers’ money. One reporter and a technical team would be perfectly sufficient.
Don’t worry Barbara they have a corrupt bank paying for it all. Their own one in fact.
1.2 billion Catholics but how many are broken down into the following categories?
1.Devout Catholics,
2.Practising Catholics
3.Catholics who attend weddings,funerals,christening only.
4.Catholic on paper only-non practicing. 5.Catholics who were born into the faith but are now practicing a different faith/atheism.
The bulk of the Catholics I know are between groups 3-5.However groups 1-2 are usually the most pious obnoxious deluded people who defend the Crimes of the Church anyway they can to justify there faith.
When it is mentioned about the track record of the Church and it’s crimes against humanity most of them(devouts&practicing) on this site anyway cry Trolling or bigotry or complain about why other faiths aren’t attacked as well, or what about all the good the Church does.
Well the Catholic Church is the main religious institution active in Ireland thats why it is selected for comments and a horrific history too.The logic of the good done erases the bad is terrible. If say Ted Bundy done lot’s of good in his life before becoming a serial killer would that be ok? Of course not he rightly answered for his crimes.
If you look up delsional disorder in the DSM (bible of psychiatry) it would certainly apply to some of the people on this site.However it is most likely not there fault as I can imagine been indoctrinated in some extreme cases will cause logic sense and reason to fly out the Window and be replaced by superstition,and blind faith in the ridiculous
Catholics who are actually atheists.
Catholics who don’t believe in the basic tenants of the church, like transubstantiation, the existence of hell and heaven etc.
James, nobody knows the numbers that will fall in to the categories you have outlined. The Vatican can’t be expected to issue a yearly questionnaire to confirm member’s religiosity. Like it or not the fact remains that Catholicism is a major world religion with many devout followers.
I fall in to your second category but the fact that I attend mass doesn’t mean that I defend the many and varied crimes of members of the Catholic hierarchy over 2000 years. What I do have a problem with is the same historical inaccuracies being repeated, an obsession with the actions of the Church centuries ago, the accusations that as a member of the Church I am an accessory to any crimes a member of the hierarchy is involved with and an overwhelming amount of disingenuousness when it comes to the good works of the Church. Your Ted Bundy example doesn’t equate. He’s an individual and has direct responsibility for his own crimes. Presumably none of the Cardinals were alive during the Crusades or the Inquisition so disregarding the good they do now is unfair.
You have been disingenuous yourself as if you have read the DSM then you know that culturally accepted beliefs are excluded. Furthermore, a delusion need not be false to be defined as a delusion, as diagnosis is usually based on the persons inability to interface with the community around them, a belief that only the self exists and even infrequent hallucinations
Yeah sure, and people who give money to Al Quada aren’t responsible for terrorism. And people who pay for child porn should be treated leniently because they’re not contributing to the child porn industry. You’re completely separate and putting money in the basket doesn’t in any way contribute to the evil that is the catholic church.
Thanks Jimbo you’ve given a perfect example of the comments I was talking about…sarcastic and disingenuous . The main aim of Al Qaeda is around the removal of western forces from Muslim lands and the establishment of an Islamic Caliphate. The main aim of the Catholic Church is to spread the teachings of Christ and to carry out acts of charity. I don’t believe that you can’t see a distinction in the intentions of those who contribute to one versus the other.
Kevin,
You really need to watch this documentary about the catholic church…
I think you’re a bit confused about the definition of the word ‘documentary’
A room full of fallible men electing an infallible man. It beggars belief.
Paddy Scully. Let the begrudgers begrude. Can i borrow that phrase??? God love all the begrudgers. Life must be difficult for them for they have no love in their hearts only hatred and anger.
I thought chemicals were added to get black smoke, not white Gavan?
Chemicals have to be added either way!
All hail the mighty Cthulu
Leave them in there and throw away the key!
NEWSFLASH: Vatican Warned Irish Bishops NOT To Report Abuse!
See: http://alturl.com/vqrmu
iPhone,bet-fair app, sure they are all backing horses at Cheltenham
Marist 59. We have all made mistakes. But maybe u think u have not which entitles u to get up on your high horse to judge people. “Hypocrite!!! First take the log from your own eye so u can take the speck from your brothers.”
Again, the votes are guided by the omniscient creator of the universe and they can’t decide on a new pope! LMAO
Wow. You really have been reading up on the Conclave. I am impressed. Face it jimbo you are fascinated by Catholicism. Now let down those barriers and let God who is love into your heart. You wont regret it.
I never said it wasn’t fascinating. Sort of like watching a train wreck.
So you have to be a catholic to be fascinated with the workings of a religious hierarchy?
I find it fascinating that 115 men between the ages of 54 and 80 are going to elect the last absolute theocratic monarch on the planet to preside over a religion that “claims” to have 1.2 billion followers. Its the most bizarre form of succession I have ever come across.
At least when the Dalai Lama is chosen after death, the child is found through prayer and mysticism much more closely related to God than what the College of Cardinals is currently doing.
Jimbo… How long did it take u to come up with that piece of hilarity. U truly are a gifted comedian.
One of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is patience. Have some patience my Catholic friend…. Our new Holy Father will be revealed in good time. Rome wasnt built in a day…..
And the room has been reinforced with the materials to prevent the mobile phones from working in case one of those men who have been specially chosen by god decide to cheat
I love the new pope smell.
Conor. If u go back on the comments i wouldnt say “fascinated” would not describe most posters here. Try disrespectful, poisonous, judgemental. I am glad u are enjoying it. At least ur giving it a go with a kind heart.
As for Dalai Lama, he speaks of peace and love. If u were to follow his path u would be going in the right direction….
Jimbo. Its ok for you to be a bit shy or embarrassed about liking the Conclave. Its also ok to laugh at the whole process. God is forgiving. This is a wonderful day to be a Catholic.
have your say