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Teachers are striking today - Here's why

The Junior Cert does matter, apparently.

OVER 350,000 SECONDARY school students will get an unplanned day off as teachers strike.

Across the country, members of teaching unions will join marches outside schools in official pickets, as teachers protest at changes to the Junior Certificate.

Much of the debate, in the comments section here and on social media, around teachers comes back one point: that teachers do a well-paid job that gets a lot of holidays.

But, that is not the issue at hand.

Teachers feel they are protecting the integrity of State examinations

Today’s strike is expressly around one major issue: teachers are being asked to mark 40% of the course work of their students.

This is down from 100% first proposed, but teachers feel that their marking any of their students’ state exam work would fundamentally change how they do their jobs.

The ASTI says that the plan would make the system unclear and unfair.

“The introduction of school-based assessment would compromise the credibility, transparency and fairness of the examinations process.

“In addition, school-based assessment for State certification purposes would significantly change the relationship between teacher and student.”

Critics counter that such a system exists at third-level, but teachers spend more time on a one-to-one basis with both students and their parents.

But it’s also about resources

This strike action is the tip of the iceberg for many teachers. Following years of cuts to education budgets, they want to sent a message that schools are overstretched and struggling.

The ASTI says that their concerns are falling on deaf ears.

“Schools continue to struggle in the wake of six years of austerity cutbacks and teachers continue to have very serious and justified concerns about the capacity at system, school and individual levels to deal with the magnitude of change that the implementation of the proposed changes to Junior Cycle would involve.

“Despite these concerns, the Department of Education and Skills refused to engage in any discussion of resourcing in the most recent negotiations with TUI and ASTI.”

This could go on

The reform of the Junior Certificate was a lengthy process and the Department will already feel like it has made large concessions. For now, neither side seems likely to change its stance, meaning this could run and run.

Read: Teachers aren’t backing down – they’re going to strike on Tuesday

Read: Minister to teachers: ‘Call off your strike’ … Teachers to minister: ‘No’

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70 Comments
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    Mute Felicity Scott
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:01 AM

    I’m not a teacher either, but I absolutely and unconditionally support this strike (despite the personal inconvenience it causes). Having studied under both traditional and infernal (term used advisedly) assessment regimes, I know that no matter how hard you try, infernal assessment is a flawed system which produces results that are meaningless. As someone who was involved in recruitment in a country with infernally assessed qualifications, I know that said ‘assessments’ are not uniform, not indicative of ability, and not helpful TO THE STUDENTS’ FUTURE. My boss once remarked ‘Oh, another certificate to say they stayed in High School, h’ray! – TEST THEM’. Now, in Ireland we are only looking at this mess in the Junior Cycle – most kids do go on to complete Leaving these days. However, surely those children who for whatever reason don’t progress to Leaving Cert are those most in need of a meaningful qualification? And as for three months’ holiday, you may blow that out yer hole – teaching your average teenager anything at all (without either having a breakdown or going homicidal) is a miracle that should see canonisation extended to every teacher in this land.

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    Mute Christopher O'Brien
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:46 AM

    Respect to you. You’ve hit the nail on the head there.

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    Mute Smiley
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:14 AM

    I have been a teacher in a secondary school system that combines external assessment and internal assessment. It works.

    For people like me, a lazy-ish student who gets good grades for the effort put in to internal assignments then blitzes exams, external examination is fine. For my friends who suffer from extraordinary exam nerves, being able to have the internal assessment count, is superb. Win-win as long as you have the nous.

    For non-academics, the opportunity to sit relevant courses towards a trade where practical assignments are mandatory, eg carpentry, catering, automotive stuff, internal assessment is essential.

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    Mute Cathal Jenkinson
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 6:47 AM

    Article expressly states that this is not about extra holidays or extra work. First comment – “Are they not just back from three months holidays?” Read the article! And no, I’m not a teacher.

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    Mute Richard Cynical
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:39 AM

    Sometimes I think all our teachers were trained in France

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:54 AM

    Unfortunately people who make comments like that don’t know how we compare to other countries.
    Looking at oecd data its easy to see that teachers in Ireland have more contact hours than most and when comparing salaries to similarly qualified peers within their own country, Ireland’s rate is about 80%; one of the lowest in the oecd.

    So not only are such comments irrelevant to this story, they’re based on ignorance.

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    Mute Thomas
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 11:49 AM

    This is about accountability. Teachers know that if they are responsible for 40% of a child’s assessment then they become more accountable for the child’s results to the parents, rather than the ‘external examiner’ being held accountable to parents

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 2:08 PM

    Thomas that interpretation makes no sense. In fact its an argument FOR the teachers’ stance.
    Assessment should reflect aims and objectives. Without external moderation parents and pupils have little to guide them on the value and validity of the assessment.

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    Mute Highwayman
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:22 AM

    The Teachers are Right.

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    Mute Mark Gerard Lochlain
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 6:54 AM

    No, it’s December people!! We went back in August..!! Count the months on your fingers people!!

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    Mute Noel Hogan
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:11 AM

    There’s already internal assessment in schools – for Christmas exams, summer exams and any other test the teacher gives. This is about keeping the one exam that matters free of possible bias.

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    Mute Stephen Byrne
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:31 AM

    The one exam That matters? This isn’t the leaving cert!

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    Mute Liam H
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:38 AM

    If Jan gets away with bringing this in, she’ll target the leaving Cert for these “education advances” next and by advances I mean cost saving measures.

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    Mute Alien8
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:56 AM

    What cost savings? I thought this was only about the ideology of self assessment vs external assessment. If this proposal goes through and children’s education gets better for less cost, would that not be a good thing (externally measured by the leaving certificate)?

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    Mute Liam H
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:12 AM

    The new junior cert doesn’t have higher and ordinary level in any subjects except English, Irish and maths.
    All other subjects will be common levels with reduced teaching time, down from 240 hours tuition over 3 years to 200 hours as well as a dumbed down syllabus.

    This reduction in the levels of papers alone would save the SEC a lot of money

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    Mute Noel Hogan
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 4:42 PM

    Junior Cert is the gateway to the leaving cert.

    No doubt if these proposals go through we’ll have a lot of parents asking teachers to bump up grades as “they need at least a B to do honours for the leaving cert” and the like.

    Or since schools compete with other, the pressure will be on to give higher grades to students – after all we want our school to have loads of As every year in the Junior Cert. Good for PR, good for future enrolment.

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    Mute Ruth Houston
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:06 AM

    I’m a teacher from Scotland where continuous assessment is a key part of our education system and I think this refusal to accept change is madness! These people are degree level educated professionals and the idea they couldn’t objectively assess their own pupils work is laughable. If this was about what it’s best for pupils and the teachers had ever read anything about best practice and assessment for learning you would have agreed to the 100% never mind 40%.

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    Mute Frainc Ó Broin
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:16 AM

    there is a reason that most education systems in the world differ greatly. What works for one country doesn’t necessarily become a roaring success in another. Considering Ireland is ranked 9th and is poorly financed compared to other countries, our system aint all bad. We have continuous assessment in Irish schools already, its called LCA.

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    Mute Liam H
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:32 AM

    Have you any experience of working with other forms of assessment?
    When I worked in the UK I found the project work horrific, the teachers were dragging the students through it, practically doing it for them as they were under pressure from management to reach targets and minimum grades.

    Just because it’s the system you have in place doesn’t make it the best one.

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    Mute Frainc Ó Broin
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:26 AM

    It’s perfectly natural for teachers to question the educational merit of a system. If they weren’t, and simply just went ahead with every recommendation, then I’d be worried.

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    Mute Gearoid O Ciarain
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:00 AM

    I am a teacher of 41 years standing and would like to see myself as being as fair and unbiased as the next when it comes to assessing situations . I may , however , be now psychologically and emotionally hard wired to be biased towards the following if I had to assess them: my immediate and extended family; children of friends and colleagues ; children from dysfunctional backgrounds; children with depression ; children suffering traumatic experiences such as family breakups; children who panic ; witty guys; very talented guys and , oh , the children of Johnny , the local mechanic who would never let a neighbour down !

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    Mute Alien8
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:32 AM

    Gearoid, do you currently do that throughout the year for all of the above? if you were marking up little Johnny for wrong answers throughout the year and then expected him to do well in the junior cert, it would be terrible for him personally, even if it satisfied your “hard-wiring” when you were supposed to be “hard-teaching”.

    Even though you are trying to show that people have predefined bias, I actually think you are a bad example to newer teachers who would be professional at all times. The school certificate inspection would highlight this, by the way.

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    Mute Mattie's Person
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:11 AM

    Absolutely necessary for teachers to strike against the reforms- but the reason why I think they should is different from theirs. The grinds business is alive and well due to the shocking standard of teachers out there. I don’t want them correcting my children’s work when they can barely get through the curriculum themselves. Also, those who teach a language that they themselves learned as a second language- that’s just another form of Chinese whispers. Finally- no matter how bad a teacher is, their job is for life. No performance appraisal for them. There are fantastic teachers out there but they are very few and far between.

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    Mute Frainc Ó Broin
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:32 AM

    Grinds are alive and well to cheat the system, and many want to pay for the edge over others. It’s a competitive system, not necessarily a bad thing when people put a value on success. Also, many kids are in large class sizes and benefit more from one to one tuition. To suggest that fantastic teachers are few and far between is an obvious exaggeration, there are thousands and thousands of teachers in the country and I doubt you had the pleasure of assessing them all.

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    Mute Christopher O'Brien
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:49 AM

    Love the generalisation that all teachers have a job for life! Cheers. My job is a12 month contract after that’s up the school had the choice to renew our not. You’d want to do some research.

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    Mute Christopher O'Brien
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:52 AM

    And as for grinds you blame the teachers solely. I’ve spoken to students who’ve admitted that before they went to a grinds school it was they who were unmotivated to work because of a lack of pressure from home. Their attitude in most cases was that “mommy and day had paid for this so I’d better pull the finger out”. Timetabling is a major concern also.

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    Mute Orla Maher
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:19 AM

    48% of teachers are on temporary or casual contracts, contrary to belief it is not the job for life that people think. With many staff in part time roles it is another reason to avoid 40% assessment as it would be another reason to diminish the integrity of the exams if staff were in part time.

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    Mute Frainc Ó Broin
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:23 AM

    Christopher, from my experience, hour allocations are the main issue, meaning many teachers get stuck teaching subjects they are not qualified to teach. The equivalent of grinds to aid continuous assessment will be the next norm. And yes, when people pay, they value things more. A lot of grinds happen because kids spend too long on facebook or on their playstation. They’ve a lot of distractions in life that I didn’t have growing up.

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    Mute Linda Whelan
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:12 AM

    I personally think continuous assessment is a great idea, I was always really bad at exams ie mind block as soon as I sat down to one, I would class myself as quite an intelligent person so that was obviously quite difficult. If my work had been marked throughout the year it would have been a fairer way to assess what I had learned throughout the year.

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    Mute Frainc Ó Broin
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:01 AM

    the issue is not about the value of continuous assessment, its who does that assessment, impartiality and will mammy and daddy do the work? Kids with more educated parents will have the best projects. I can imagine a parent teacher meeting,’how come I only got a C, hmmm, I mean how come my child only got a C’? Will what merits an A in some schools, be an A in others? It’ll could easily be google translate for language subjects and intensive wikipedia research considering most school libraries in Ireland lack the resources for decent research. There are genuine educational concerns. It’s not really even about extra work, because teachers already correct loads of homework and the kids would simply get less homework and more project or essay work and the workload would be similar.

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    Mute Linda Whelan
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:31 AM

    I’m not saying teachers should do it I’m saying I think it’s a great idea to have continuous assessment I’m fully aware that teachers already do a lot of work outside of their normal working hours, I live with a teacher she’s constantly correcting home work, doing study plans etc. I’m just speaking from personal experience that I froze doing exams and continuous assessment would have been great for me personally. That’s just my opinion last time I checked I was still allowed have one of those!!

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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:57 AM

    Yet still missing the point that continuous assessment is not the issue….

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    Mute Alien8
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:00 AM

    Linda, don’t take it personally, but if you even *suggest* that an internationally recognised examination method of continuous assessment is an option you will be red thumbed to death!

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    Mute Linda Whelan
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 11:52 AM

    Yeh I gathered that. I’m done posting on the journal.ie sick of the red thumbs lol

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    Mute Anto Byrne
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 6:41 AM

    I taught this was a joke yesterday. Are they not only back from there 3 months holiday? Try getting a real job we’re you have to do real actual work. Rant over

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    Mute Tom Red
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 6:59 AM

    Anto,
    Ever think of going back to school and resitting your junior cert remedial trolling exams????…..

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    Mute Paul
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:00 AM

    That has to be satire with that spelling.

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    Mute Amy Ni Dhaltuin
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:10 AM

    And I wonder who taught you how to write? Oh yes. Teachers. And do you work Anto? Who taught you to have a cv, or got you through 14 years of education and helped you get the life you have now, oh yes, TEACHERS. Do you have any kids Anto? Who gets them through their education and helps them get a future. TEACHERS. Think before you type.

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    Mute L o' Reilly
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:17 AM

    Anto judging by your comment you haven’t spent to long in school. I’m not a teacher but my missus is and it one of the hardest jobs to have because pay isn’t great, they work 12 hrs plus a day and get only get paid for 8 and have to put up you idiots will you making stupid comments about 3 months holiday. Rant over!!

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    Mute David Evans
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:53 AM

    This account (Anto) was set up yesterday (1/12/14) – obvious troll, take no notice.

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    Mute Alien8
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:42 AM

    Obvious troll, indeed… IP address is for an eircom account in Dublin 8 – isn’t that near ASTI HQ? Love the pretend bad spelling.

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    Mute Johnnie Sexton
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:00 AM

    I agree totally with the teachers. This self assessment to replace the junior cert hasn’t worked in other countries eg England (who’ve now gone back to their original state exams) All the ministers seem to want is cut more money for education and to be honest if a student drops out of school after third year what state paper do they have…… none. Therefore limiting their hopes of any real job either home or abroad.

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    Mute Stephen Byrne
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:07 AM

    To strike over correcting junior cert exams seems like such a waste of public good will in the grand scheme of things.

    Maybe the unions think this is a free one given the unpopularity of the government.

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    Mute Elaine Quinn
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:37 AM

    Anto may be a troll, but I’m going send off a quick email to Revenue and Dept. of Social Protection with some screenshots. I’ll let them decide if it warrants some investigation for fraud.
    I’m a teacher. I earn my wages honestly and decently.

    23
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    Mute Jim Mullins
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 10:51 AM

    In your email to Revenue, be sure to declare your cash income from Grinds Elaine ;-)

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    Mute Jim Mullins
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 11:48 PM

    I see there are currently 21 dislikes to my last comment, i suspect 21 teachers are either showing support for their colleague’s opinion (fair enough), or could they be advising colleagues not to declare income from Grinds?. :-)

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    Mute Mister Mole
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:58 AM

    I don’t know how this is a reason to strike. A very clear marking scheme, external examiners monitoring corrections and an appeals process is what needed. I’ve been teaching at third level for years and it’s laughable to think it’s unfair for a teacher to not correct their own students’ work. If they stick to the marking scheme they won’t have a problem. Nonsense. Utterly.

    19
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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:04 AM

    Then you should know full well that this is not what’s being proposed.

    You should also know that lecturing is not the same as teaching and that there is a script viewing / appeals process at third level.

    And I’m sure you’re not really likely to have parents coming in claiming that you are being biased against their little darlings.

    Lastly, the contact time between lecturers and students is far below teachers and pupils.

    The 2 levels simply don’t compare.

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    Mute Catherine
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 4:54 PM

    The problem is there will be no external assessment or internal verification . Teachers have no problem assessing work as they do it daily but there will be no QA as work will not be externed or compared with any standard norms. If it was like FETAC system in PLC Colleges at least some external moderation takes place so Quality of teaching and Learning is checked .

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    Mute Mister Mole
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 4:55 PM

    Christ.. Grow a pair. Teachers correct everyday but being evaluated independently on a continuous basis is what’s really at the head of the matter. Fear of parents shouldn’t come into this at all. Marks should reflect the quality of work and any good teacher should be well capable of this.

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    Mute Ciaran Whyte
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:28 AM

    The most pointless strike ever.

    University lecturers mark their own students and that’s on exams which award degrees – final qualifications that truly count.

    If school teachers don’t feel they can be professional enough to mark their own students, they shouldn’t be in the job

    19
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    Mute Tony Canning
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 6:37 PM

    2nd and 3rd level systems are different in practically every way.

    The professionalism of teachers is not the point either. The point is that it is not a system that is beyond reproach but it should be.

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    Mute Seeking Truth
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:01 AM

    I’m not saying that the process in the US is perfect but continuous assessment by the teachers is the standard. Report cards are given once every 9 weeks and a Grade Point Average (GPA) carries through cumulatively all four years of your High School “career”.

    The “State” examinations are called the ACT and the SAT and they are a nationalised test that students take in either 5th of 6th year, on a Saturday. You pay to take this test, and those results are independently assessed and the results sent to you in about a month’s time. Every Third Level university requires that you submit your GPA from your regular classes and your results from your ACT or SAT. However, when you apply for 3rd level, extra curriculars, volunteer work and any paid employment goes onto that application as well and is all considered as part of the application process. It seems more well-rounded and much less pressurised than one two-week assessment period after 6 years of study in Secondary School and a “practice test” after 3 years.

    The best part about the process in the US is that you have your 3rd level details sorted (school chosen, accommodations finalised, etc.) by about March of 6th year, and the pressure to do the Leaving Cert is simply not there and the mad 2-week rush in August to get your place does not exist. Yes there are final exams in May but they are just a regular part of the work you have done over the past 4 years.

    There are options to the current Secondary School system, which has some benefits as it stands now. But changes need to be sensible and implemented properly, and it feels like Ruari Quinn just did a “hit and run” on throwing this Junior Cycle together and now it’s a mess.

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    Mute Jim Mullins
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 11:12 AM

    36 million a year on marking and supervision, an additional 9 million allocated to the junior cycle implementation, millions more spent on grinds by parents. 27,000 teachers for 350,000 students giving a pupil teacher ratio of 13:1. ASTI and the TUI then tell us that the ‘system does not have the capacity for the new junior cycle’. Give me a break. This is about teacher power and cash. It’s about telling the minister for education who’s the boss. It’s about continuous assessment being the thin end of the wedge that leads to the end of the state exam system. Teachers are employed by the taxpayer to teach according to the wishes of the people. Even if teachers believe that the people have it wrong on this, teachers have to comply with their wishes. I watch the union leaders talking down to the minister as if giving a dressing down to misbehaving pupil. If us mere mortals in the real world were to treat our boss like that, we’d be sacked!

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    Mute Audra B Morrison
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 11:57 AM

    So if you had a doctor, say, and the democratically elected “national board for health assessment” decided that the best treatment for water on the brain was magnets instead of a shunt, should that doctor go ahead and place the magnets because that national board for health assessment was elected by “the people,” even though the water on the brain is going to eventually kill the patient if not drained? Give professionals some benefit of the doubt: this is their area of training.

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    Mute Jim Mullins
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 12:46 PM

    So Audra, if you had a country that was on it’s knees economically, up to it’s eye balls in debt, unemployment and emigration out of control, you would think that some economists/entrepeneurs/business people should be called upon to make the decsisions to fix the economy. That’s what we got with the Troika and it steadied the ship. But now, our democratically elected ‘mini cabinet’ comprising of Enday Kenny (Former teacher), Michael Noonan (former Teacher), Brendan howlin (former teacher) and Joan Burton make those decisions. Although education professionals make up less than 3% of our population they make up almost one third of our elected parliament. With little or no business acumen or commercial experience, they make decisions that affect the lives of the self employed, small business owners, farmers and workers. We have to deal with the consequences of their decisions, good or bad. The reformed junior cycle was designed by the Nation Council for Cirriulum and Assessment who’s chief exectutive is Anne Looney – A former secondary teacher. The minister for education is also a former teacher so educational professionals are more than well represented in the design of this reform. The problem is with very militant teacher unions who simply will not co-operate with any reform, good or bad. Here’s a offer, we’ll leave the running of schools to the teachers, if teachers leave the running of the country to the people.

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    Mute Anto Byrne
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:18 AM

    Amy what are you talking about? Huhhh? For 1 thing I left school before my junior. Didn’t impede me at all. I am a qualified plumber up to me neck in work. I work for cash into hand and collect the dole. Still contributing more than teacher’s and the the Irish army.

    6
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    Mute Christopher O'Brien
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 7:56 AM

    Troll.

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    Mute Rob Harvey
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:07 AM

    You work for cash in hand and you’re on the Dole? You contribute how exactly?

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    Mute Stephen Byrne
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:34 AM

    It’s a fake profile set up yesterday!

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    Mute Anto Byrne
    Favourite Anto Byrne
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:43 AM

    Elaine you go right away luv. Some other sad jealous snitch did the same over a year ago on me on the journal . Still waiting on the investigation. I do actual work for my money.

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    Mute Elaine Quinn
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 10:04 AM

    Luv? Sad? Jealous? Snitch?
    Oh, Anto. You flatter me so.
    I never for a moment suggested that you didn’t work for your money (the cash in hand portion, not your dole).
    What I am saying is that you claiming dole while also taking cash in hand unbeknownst to Revenue is fundamentally wrong and you deserve to be strung up for it.

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    Mute Shonagh Holden
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    Dec 3rd 2014, 1:22 AM

    The proposed marking scheme is wrong on two different levels – some teachers have students they just don’t get along with, and vice versa. Is it fair on a student that a teacher who may have a bad opinion of them has to mark that students paper? I know that not every teacher would be judgemental, but it does happen and I don’t think it gives every student a fair chance.
    Secondly, I’m from a small town where everyone knows everyone else. For the teachers, if they go for a drink/meal/whatever in town at the weekend, there’s a fair chance they’ll meet a student’s parent/sibling etc. So if that student fails or does badly in an exam, it could well happen that a teacher would have this parent approach them in a pub and say, “my child failed their exam because you didn’t mark it well enough” – or something along those lines. I just think that makes it hard for teachers to have a life outside of school.

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    Mute Anto Byrne
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 9:35 AM

    And David? I set it up yesterday while having a sandwich. Jealousy gets you no were

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    Mute Peter Murphy
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 3:52 PM

    Its a pity the teachers did not strike during their mid-term break instead they have chosen to use a school day where kids are being used as the pawns. The teachers have a concern about marking, the current system is tight but still has its faults. Some students will benefit from this grading system and will take the pressure of them. Who will mark for example a child who has a parent that teaches them? Will this be fair? This is going to run and run and I hope they do not let the kids suffer. First sign of snow the schools are closed, there not back a wet week and the school has to have a day or 2 for staff training load of crap. Multiple choice questions might be the solution sent back to a central computer system to score might be the next fairest system.

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    Mute Christopher O'Brien
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 4:14 PM

    Peter if we’d gone out during the midterm it would be a protest not a strike. Multiple choice exams are no sort of a solution! And I get very few days out of class for training but those I take are necessary or would you rather that teachers just made up the new specifications as we go along?

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    Mute Anto Byrne
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 10:44 AM

    A working class man.

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    Mute Anto Byrne
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 10:44 AM

    It’s always people on social site’s that have big problem with me working collecting the dole. In real life people don’t care. I take that to mean the majority on this site are middle class. In other words never worked for anything. Begrudge a work

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    Mute Anto Byrne
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:28 AM

    Me dole is only 185 a week. Teacher’s are on about 600 – 1000 and more. That’s how I contribute more

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    Mute David Evans
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    Dec 2nd 2014, 8:52 AM

    This account was set up yesterday (1/12/14) – obvious troll, take no notice.

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