Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
JOAN BURTON BELIEVES that the best way of reducing the tax burden on low and middle income earners is by adjusting the point at which they enter the higher rate of tax.
But that view does not appear to be shared by Enda Kenny who wants to reduce the top marginal rate of tax.
In recent days, both the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste have been discussing potential future tax cuts in the next Budget and beyond if the coalition is re-elected. But the two coalition party leaders don’t appear to be agreed on the best way to ease the tax burden.
In a speech at a ConnectIreland event in Dublin yesterday, Kenny said that the rate of tax on middle income earners will be reduced to “at most 50 per cent” in the next Budget.
He said that the rate of income tax – which will be down from 41 to 40 per cent from 1 January next year – would also be reduced in subsequent budgets.
“Cutting the high rates of personal taxation is essential for Ireland’s recovery,” he said.
But speaking to reporters at Government Buildings earlier in the day, Burton said that Labour was focussed on tax reforms for low and middle income workers and taking people out of the taxation altogether.
“I can appreciate that for some people, say earning €100,000 plus, tax reductions in the income tax rates would be very attractive,” she said.
“But I think that in terms of boosting an economic recovery right around the country we really do have to look at the point at which people enter the top tax rate. That’s a difficult feature of our tax system,” she said.
She said that adjusting the bands was not as “catchy” as talking about cutting tax rates but said that changing them results in “effective reductions to where they’re needed most”.
Asked if she believed it was wrong to talk about cutting the effective rate of tax as Kenny is doing, Burton pointed out that “Fine Gael as a party and the Labour party as a party are two separate parties”.
She added: “We reached an agreement in July, myself and the Taoiseach, that we would emphasise in the programme for the rest of this government… low and middle income families getting the bulk of the targeted relief and the arrangements this year were to precisely do that.”
She said the “biggest anomaly in our tax system” is that single people enter the higher rate of 40 per cent even if they’re earning the average industrial wage.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Davos where politicians learn how to sing from the same hymn sheet and fleece their population for the benefit of the fat cat elites.
@David Huston: zzzzzz
@David Huston:
Is the article not about Ireland taking money from other countries for example Ireland’s benefit?
@frank murphy: glad you can take a snooze cheap skate many can’t because of this asset stripping.
@thewolf:
I don’t know, but when Haughey (or his team) initially came up with the idea and the IFSC it certainly attracted a lot of business to Ireland. I can’t imagine that we would have the top 50 tech companies in the world with their European HQ in Ireland without our tax breaks. These companies create a massive amount of employment. Maybe now that we have the companies in Ireland it may be time to reassess the benefits
@thewolf:
Yes we need to encourage home grown businesses and we are at risk if the big companies leave. We do have a benefit in that we are the only English speaking company with the euro as a currency which does help attract the US companies. And if when the UK leaves the EU it will make us that bit more attractive
@thewolf:
I agree! The challenge we have is that the eggs are already in the basket and if we want to make an omelette we will have to break a few. Breaking these eggs will probably result in job losses
@thewolf:
I am not disagreeing with you
@thewolf: Absolutely. As an entrepreneur in this country my biggest threat and direct competitor has been the government. They are like a ball and chain of no benefit whatsoever.
@David Huston: And the gullible believe them.
I think we have every right to have our rate at 12.5% and we could defend it steadfastly if we were in fact collecting 12.5% but the reality is we are collecting nothing near that. This is morally wrong given the financial pressure Ireland’s people face and the low standards we are experiencing in healthcare, housing etc. If the leaders in power had any integrity & represented the citizens of Ireland instead of bowing down to sparkly CEOs they would close some of the loop holes to get the true rate of 12.5%.
@icaniwont: Small and medium Irish enterprises pay 12.5% while foreign multinationals pay 0.2% and then the Irish businesses wonder why they can’t compete.
@Clancy: I didn’t know that and that is even more infuriating that we are jeapordising our homegrown SME business for large billion dollar foreign corporations.
@Clancy:
And PAYE taxpayers pay approx 50% marginal rates…..carrying everything in this crazy country.
We don’t tax low earners – why not? everyone should contribute an equal proportion of earnings, earn more pay more tax, earn less pay less.
We have crazy low entry into highest tax bracket….
WHY? because we do not tax massive corporate profits – even the tiny 12.5%…….the article is correct, we are a joke.
People will leave before the corporations do…….considering it myself…..being robbed here, left right and centre
@icaniwont: Our corporate tax compliance is one of the best in europe
Great job Leo,highest number of people on trolleys,people waiting years for hospital appointments, housing emergency with over 3000 children homeless. Garda scandals one after another, exploitation of men and women in the pension scheme introduced in 2012 etc etc. What’s wrong with the people of Ireland?
@Bernard Kavanagh:
the rules of the game are stacked against, although they are too happy to be bought off in the short term instead of worrying about the long term.
Multi-nationals should have been taxed at 12.5% and that would have earned E8 billion more in tax for services and some tax cuts. However, it still would not have stopped what’s coming, which is tax harmonisation across eurozone countries.
We’ve lost before when FG/Labour tried to twist the words of Merkel and Brussels that Ireland was a special cae and would get E25 billion back on the bailout. Then Noonan backed away and said Ireland would not push it anymore as we don’t need the money (!!!). Ireland has a national debt of E210 billion, higher per person than Greece.
The fact is Ireland is going to lose out between E4-8 billion in annual tax revenue, something it can ill afford and there is going to be a lot more belt-squeezing on the population. The Irish government should mitigate that and finally turn its attention on helping Irish businesses.
there’s been no sign of that to date, so don’t hold your breath.
It’s Ireland versus our “friends” in Europe, which haven’t been that friendly at all given the terms of the bailout. There’s only ging to be one winner and it’s not Ireland.
I read a quote by an English politician stating that every job created by Apple in Ireland cost the Exchequer close to €2 million in lost corporation tax revenue.
The government is utterly deferential to these huge corporations presumably as they allow FG to make huge job announcements. All the while they hammer home grown SME’s with tax.
When you look closer, tech MNC’s pay lip service to the quality of the Irish workforce, but the composition of their own would suggest otherwise.
For the most part have to ship in a huge number of foreign workers , which piles pressure on the already dysfunctional property market, so it’s not as if they’re even creating tons of jobs for Irish people !
It’s an insane short termist solution which sooner or later is going to end in tears.
@Eric:
Is that the same English politician who said they were going to have 350 million a week more to go into the NHS after Brexit?
What about EU stealing all our fish
@Gerard Heery:
Expensive Fish for 20bn a year…
@JWill: no relation what’s so ever just calling a spade a spade
@TheJeff: wouldnt be far off the mark at 20 billion a year only Irish boats are monitored
@thewolf: it was that ‘pretend’ navy that caught that evil terrorist Martin Ferris and his boat load of guns that were destined to be used to murder as many innocent people as possible in the SF/IRA genocide campaign
Hit the small guy all the time…
All about the stays quo remaining with FG blueshirts..
@Willy Malone: the stays quo? you shinners aint that bright are you? LOL
Status Quo :)
Frank the plank :)
Chuckle :)
FG employee lol ;)
@Willy Malone: poor shinners, isolated, alone, irrelevant, will that ever change? PMSL
@frank murphy: ah look. Dane is back. no driving lessons today Dane
@frank murphy: stays quo is nordy for status quo
@Tony Dowling: a british saying so :)
Patronising Pascal doesn’t know how long Apple are in Ireland. He says 14 years when it’s over 30… Oh dear
The EU offered Ireland tax autonomy if Lisbon mk 2 was passed by the Irish people. We never asked or requested it. Now we are being criticized for excerising our EU given right. They seem to want it both ways. If we are forced to adopt EU tax harmonization where does that leave the Lisbon mk 2 result? I would consider it nullified and the result of Lisbon mk 1 would stand. I doubt that would suit the EU.
@John Hagin Meade: Yet the citizens of Ireland, members of the EU, cannot avail of European bank’s mortgage rates, car insurance rates, or the data protection that under EU law and regulation should apply to everyone in the EU.
@JWill: tax avoidance is within our tax autonomy rights. In other words, if we wanted to, we could pay companies to be here rather then tax them, if we wanted to on my opinion.
@John Hagin Meade:
Fine John – then at least be honest about it.
Our leaders are lying through there teeth and stabbing allies and friends in the back – don’t you think this is short sighted?
If this was another european country being sneaky and underhand and deceptive, ripping their own taxpayers off, and the taxpayers of europe, i would be outraged and rightly so.
You say it is our right to be corporate shills sellouts and liars – doesn’t make it right – especially when taxpayers like me have to carry the can and pay for everything in this banana republic
@HelloGoogleTracking: Who said anything about it being right or sneaky or underhand? We would only be taking example from the EU, like the way they forced us to repay the bondholders, over and above what we may have actually owed, even though I believe the bondholders are ‘big boys’ and know that any ‘too good to be true’ investments carry a huge potential risk.
@John Hagin Meade: There was never a Lisbon mk2. What happened was that the government was so servile to the EU they couldn’t bear the thought of defying Brussels. So they patted the electorate on the head, explained to them that they had voted the wrong way and the sheep dutifully delivered the right result the second time around. Just like the Nice referendum. Now why on earth would the EU have any respect whatsoever for the Irish people?
When leo and pascal are in Davos, Ireland is a small economy. When leo and pascal are back home, we’ve a very big economy, and the fastest growing in Europe!
And despite their 0% tax, they (FG and FF), they still bankrupt the country.
Oh now holy Ireland your days are numbered the days of a free ride is coming to an end.
The European countries can reduce their corporation tax rates if they want to be more competitive. 25-30% is a joke as well!
One thing Ireland needs to do is actually enforce our low rate of 12.5%. I’m self employed and it pisses me off that I’ve to pay 12.5% on money carried over from one financial year to another because it’s classified as profit (when it’s really float money to allow me take holidays and sick days) and the likes of Google are paying .00002%. It’s simply not fair.
@John Mc Avinue:
20-30% corporate tax rates are not a joke.
I have to pay marginal rates of 50% on any earnings above the average industrial wage.
Capital gains is taxed at 33% for anything earned above €1200.
Corporate profits are what taxes were invented for, taxes are theoretically supposed to be on profits, not exchanges of money for labour.
These corporations are making supernormal profits and not paying their fair share in tax.
They always claim they do through the taxes their employees pay – but this is rubbish. Those taxes are paid by the individual employees – the corporations are paying the employee for their labour.
Confusing the two is a lie, and deliberately used even by our own government.
Its hard to defend yourself when it’s a leprechaun economy!
@thewolf: actually the number was growth in GDP. Only an idiot thinks that equates to economic growth.
However, as a measure between economies it has been a useful scale. Just gets twisted in a small economy that suddenly received the ownership of a few thousand commercial jets due to corporate restructuring.
@thewolf: they (FG and FF) deserve all the criticism they get because they’re one of the very few govs that bankrupt their own country.
@Adrian: not just once, but multiple times. Garret the Great doubled our debt in less than 18 months, the same Garret the Great who rallied against debt relief while forgetting he got 200K write off from AIB. Where do you start with Haughey and Bertie.
Buy hey, let attack those looney lefties.
@Cicero:
GDP would be an excellent measure if corporate profits were taxed appropriately ….
As it stands it is misinformation, and disinformation – quoted by every public sector unions demanding pay rises……when it is obviously a fatal flawed figure in the context of ireland.
It is grossly inflated by corporate profits that are not taxed….and 10yr old can do the analysis, and see no corresponding increase in revenue commiserate with the GDP growth…
total bull as usual – lies and spin – Ireland needs to grow up
@thewolf: remeber how the shinners said they only took the indistrial way, we all know what a pack of lies that turned out to be… but hey that’s SF for you
We as a nation should have every right to set our tax rates as we see fit. 12.5% tax rate, highly skilled educated work force, 1GB internet speeds, good motorway network. We have more to offer than sweetheart deals. We need to start making sure they pay 12.5%. Drop it to 10% if they locate outside the big cities
@phil: As a Nation we are a member of the European Union and are benefiting from it since we became a member and the Spirit of any Union is to work in Harmony if Ireland wants to behave as described by the Economics Experts of the World as a Thief then we as a Nation have a choice to make Stay in the Union or go it alone at this Stage Ireland should count themselves Lucky that we Have not been expelled
@Johnny Mason: you think this is some sort of school, expelled, holy fook I’ve heard it all now. According to the oecd businesses in France pay less then Ireland. Should they be expelled too??, also Hungary and Bulgaria have lower rates then Ireland. What do you reckon we should with them??
Leo the legend is doing us proud in Davos. It’s no wonder he is so popular with the electorate. I am really looking forward to a FG majority :)
#FeelingGoodWithFineGael
@frank murphy: what are you smoking man
@Darren B Link: Are you suggest that Leo doesnt have 60% satisfaction?
We are truly blessed to have such a stateman to lead us for the next few decades :)
#FeelingGoodWithFineGael
@Darren B Link: ignore him. He’s a troll. He contributes nothing to the journal other than he highlights with unerring regularity the kind of moron that votes for Varadkar & Co – the lobotomised members of Irish society basically!
@Setrakian: 60% satisfaction, sorry if that irks you LOL
@frank murphy: No, he’s good at promoting himself, PR, giving the impression that he’s popular and doing well. He’s supposed to be a leader and doing what’s right for the people of this nation and the issues effecting them – not him.
@Jed I. Knight: the people of ireland seem very happy with his exceptional leadership :)
@frank murphy: polls yes that really worked out well for Hillary 2016 what was it she was going to win by a landslide …
@Setrakian: maybe its Leo himself lol
@Darren B Link: ah bless
@Finipops: Are you looking forward to a FG majority?
@Darren B Link:
Hilary’s was polling less than 2% ahead of trump the day before the election. Hardly a landslide
@frank Murphy: poll taken before his last gaff
@frank murphy: sorry there Fwank was there an election that we didn’t know about? Maybe in your head possibly
@frank murphy: Great job Leo,highest number of people on trolleys,people waiting years for hospital appointments, housing emergency with over 3000 children homeless. Garda scandals one after another, exploitation of men and women in the pension scheme introduced in 2012 etc etc. What’s wrong with the people of Ireland?
@Bernard Kavanagh: quick look over there….
@Nick Allen:
And she won the popular vote by just over 2%.
All the talk of polls getting it wrong but the polls closest to brexit, Trump and the last British GE were all remarkably accurate.
What it really shows is how volatile voters have become , a big lead 3 weeks out from a vote is almost a disadvantage at this stage.
@frank murphy:
With his Strategic Communications costing the nation some 100,000 euro per week, one could consider the money well spent to have him at 60% popularity but it is not so high for the rest of his colleagues or party as a whole.
The only percentage or poll that counts is the one on election day.
@frank murphy: have some more meth
@frank murphy: 60% satisfaction in leader doesn’t get seats.
@Darren B Link: actually Hillary did win the popular vote, trump got in through the electoral college
Revolution
I’m starting to wonder if the pros really do outweigh the cons of all these multinationals. Yes they’ve added jobs but they’ve also also had a hugely negative impact on various elements of society, most noteably the ever increasing rental market.
@RichieC:
Also taxing them so little effectively means we need to tax workers more – hence our huge taxes on middle income earners, higher than anywhere else.
Rental market is simply greed and bad regulations, and vested interests controlling government decisions more than the welfare of citizens.
But both are examples of government policy directed by vested interests – corporate – property – landlords etc…..and people are just the cash cows to pay for everything
Unfortunately this is a race to the bottom…eventually competing states pandering to corporate interests will diminish the tax base so much that the only viable answer to the deficit will be to raise the workers income tax rates to a crippling level. We are looking at the fetal stage of a disastrous global economic crash to come however it was always going to happen as it is an intrinsic fault built into the very fiber of capitalism
@Frank Lee: It’s called Corporate Welfare. It’s the main focus of neoliberalism.
@Dave Doyle: Time to take the pike from the thatch !
This crap coming from a gathering of some of the biggest tax cheats in the world, what’s wrong them is they need a bigger slice of the pie, and Ireland is an ideal target for them. The dregs of humanity, paying a fortune to speak down to the “lower classes”….a wee bit like Marie Antoinette + Louis, off with their heads I say, or at the very least treat them with the contempt they deserve.
I am really looking forward to Leos second term as taoiseach :)
#FeelingGoodWithFineGael
@Jayo Breathneach: poor old Frank must be in the top 10 most muted on here
We are not a tax haven, by definition a tax haven pursues a secretive taxation system. Ours is completely transparent.
I’m uncomfortable with massive corporations paying almost no tax here and it should be changed but Im even more uncomfortable with other countries telling us what to do.
Calling us thieving pirates? That is unacceptable.
@Ooby Dooby: The Apple Deal wasn’t transparent. It was revealed in the US Senate when Tim Cook stood up and said under oath that Apple had received a special deal from Ireland going back many years and then Irish politicians denied it. Also it’s not “other countries” telling us what to do. That sounds like something Nigel Farage might say. It’s member countries of the EU. We are in the club and must play by the rules of the club. Ireland is increasingly being identified as a tax haven. Trump has also referenced Ireland a few times. We do not need this kind of publicity. It is not good for our image.
@Sean: I actually agree with most of what you’re saying, we don’t need that kind of publicity, but the Apple deal does not represent our tax system. Our books are openly provided to the commission every year and we don’t have a system like Switzerland or the Cayman Islands which is secretive, we are not a tax haven.
Farage is a deeply troubled individual, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day. EU tax harmonisation would be bad for Ireland. Setting our own tax rates is our prerogative, we have a right to find a competitive edge anyway that is legal.
Tax is just for the peasants.
@Johnr:
Thats the irish way !!
Can we get the actual tax figures for multi nationals in other European countries the same as is happening here in ireland, I’ll bet the figures wouldn’t be all that different to here.
@Paddy: now that would be a great idea, according to the oecd French companies pay less tax then Irish companies with all the loopholes and tax avoidance schemes, their average tax is about 8% or less. And that’s just France. Remember Holland and Luxembourg are in the firing line aswell.
All fg figures are illusions,paschal wont like being embarrassed,but he deserves it.
We really need to stand strong on this….
Tax the MNC’s SFA while taxing the hardworking citizens of Ireland up to 52%. Inadequate transport, housing, healthcare etc. etc. An absolute disgrace!
It’s the only tool we have to attract these massive companies, we literally have nothing else going for us (transport, housing, internet, cost of living, etc).
@thesaltyurchin:
1. Member state of europe and access to that market
2. Only english speaking member (after brexit)
3. Highly skilled workforce
4. Young workforce.
5. Highest level of third level education in europe
6. Cultural links and history with the US
7. Positive international reputation
etc etc…..
But I’m sure pascal went right back at him and said, “ we had to steal something back, the EEC (EU) stole out FISHERIES’s and paid our farmers not to farm…….
Raise the corporate rates to European levels and watch the economy collapse again. It’s all fake. We are not responsible for our booming economy at all.
There will be no change until we change ourselves. We are not Thatcherite individuals. We are a society made of people.
The Irish, under the worst of the Penal laws, still lay down and took it. Crushed finally by the so-called famine, we still took it.
A tiny group of men and women took to the streets and took back control because they had a vision of how Ireland could be if ordinary people worked together and for each other.
We need to revive this ideal.
There was a recent article in the Irish press citing a Cork located MNC urging the Government to make more accommodation available to it’s workers that they have to recruit abroad. The IDA spout increased worker figures daily with grand pictures to match how many of these numbers are by default imported I ask. I venture at least 40%. Now ask yourself the impact on the property market for those already in it or trying to gain a step onto it. The MNC’s can well afford the sky rocketing prices of property for their workers Irish based or otherwise.
There are 3 major players I believe that drive the rental property prices in Ireland the Government with rental subsidies which drives prices up being a major secured income player and their lack of action on development of housing or infrastructure to cater for a phenomenal and explosive population growth , the rich MNCs that increase the demand when they have to import foreign workers and are prepared to pay any price and lastly the rich farmers setting and getting too high prices for land relative any other country in Europe.
Whilst FG and FF have allowed the MNCs to become more than 50% of the tax take they have ignored the effects of MNC influence on rental prices their solution is to pay rental income and other social welfare transfers to all that are left behind in the market. These people mostly Irish have been and are forever destined to the vicious life long trap of poverty that accepting transfers brings and God help the ones that don’t ask for anything.
The glimmer of hope on the horizon is that much more property will be available at lower prices very soon as MNC’s will be reporting from now on their revenue in each country separately and once that is transparent EU countries will make sure they get their cut. There is no benefit of being in the Atlantic beyond a country not in the EU even if it is the last remaining English speaking. Portugal, Denmark and others are set to gain. As the MNC’s ‘DIVEST’ (an ugly word but we will have to get used to it though may never be seen in the press) a lot more property will be found in places like Dublin, Cork and Galway and the great divide on this Island will narrow.
The fundamental question is:
If Ireland charged the average EU corporate tax rate and did not have the under the radar ‘double Irish” tax lark for multinationals, how much less tax would Ireland collect?
The assumption is that Ireland collects more tax by having a 12.5% corporate tax rate
+ the concession given to multinationals in channeling profits to tax havens.
The reason that Ireland is not claiming the E13 billion Apple tax windfall is that other
countries would claim it right away.
Germany and France should drop their tax rate to below 12.5% tomorrow just for giggles. Let’s see what tune Leo and his circus of clowns will be singing next year in Davos.
@Ths Fer: France has two main corporate tax rates — a rate of 15% for small firms and a combined rate of 34.43% for bigger firms.
The problem is that only an idiot thinks any multinational pays anything close to 12.5% .. they pay a faction of this.
A joke it is, and a sick one; what other country on earth needs two foreigns, an American and an Italian, to speak up for its citizens while their PM and Finance Minister go out to bat relentlessly for global parasites! And before the usual suspects come on with their ‘all our jobs will go’ claptrap, here’s a challenge-post a link to any cost-benefit analysis which PROVES that raising our corporate tax rate, or just enforcing it on all beneficiaries as the Italian gentleman says would be detrimental overall. In fact on a related topic can anyone, anywhere, point me to a cost-benefit analysis of the IDA and Enterprise Ireland and the ‘work’ they’ve done over the years. If they and the ideology they embody are such boons you’d think there would be evidence to show it, but I’ve never found it-hmmm!
I think this is brilliant. Let Europe sort out our corrupt establishment because we can’t get at the dirty conniving bas tards. Watch this space they will start sulking now and demand an irexit. Fuc#ing pigs.
The argument is less about Irelands 12.5% tax & more about allowing notional rates. If the multinationals paid a rate approaching 12.5% it would transform this country. Those arguing that the multinationals would move, should have more faith in this country. Especially since shortly we will be the only English speaking EU nation
@Andrew Tuck: The language that these companies understand is $$$$, nothing more and nothing else, and rightly so as they are answerable to their shareholders. They will up sticks the second some other EU country makes it more attractable.
Don’t kid yourself, in that our ability to speak broken English will keep them here. They owe us nothing at the end of the day.
Apple presenting Ireland for 14 years?! Absolute dope, it’s been there since the 80s.
#Bodmin Town Council in Cornwall is paying £40,000 a year to #Zurich Insurance PLC a Swiss company who are registered in Ireland so that they can undercut quotes from English companies like the NFU. It is scandalous but then in my experience #Bodmin Town Council is corrupt anyway.
Ireland is leading a despicable charge to the bottom to absolve billion dollar corporations and their billionaire owners to pay their fair share of tax. All the time everyday workers are paying 50% marginal taxes while Donoghue et al are justifying corporations paying <12.5%. The whole edifice is sickening and the criticism of Ireland is justified – I can't understand how the Irish commentariat can criticise Trump's tax cuts as "cut for the rich" when the same people are at the vanguard of the race to the bottom.
Two photos of Leo and Paschal. Same facial pose. The Special Communications unit seems at work. What are they both plus large entourage doing at Davos.
Apple has been in Ireland a lot longer then 14 years. Id safely say add another 20 odd years to that!
Are we members of the EU why are they complaining about our tax don’t understand it
have your say