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THE TAOISEACH HAS announced the establishment of a working group on Seanad reform.
The move comes over a year after the Irish public voted to retain the upper house.
The group will be chaired by former senator Dr Maurice Manning and will focus on possible reforms of the Seanad Electoral system within the existing constitutional parameters.
Manning will be joined by:
The working group will also explore ways of reforming Seanad Éireann generally and the manner in which it carries out its business.
The Working Group will examine submissions and proposals for reform which have already been made and will also look at the role and powers of the Seanad.
It will report back to the government before March.
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Hooks biggest mistake is thinking that Irish people still accepted the concept of personal responsibility. Modern Irish people don’t do personal responsibility.
@Johnny Gunn: You might like to explain your comment about responsibility, in relation to the story above, which relates to victims of rape.
@Johnny Gunn: I agree! Particularly when you apply it to rapists who won’t take responsibility for taking ‘no’ as an answer and then go on to forcibly have sex with someone who either can’t or hasn’t consented.
@Johnny Gunn: Spot On.
@Johnny Gunn: From your comment it would seem that modern Irish people don’t do thinking, respect, compassion or a basic level of human decency either.
Your disgusting opinion reflects what type of person you are Johnny.
@Johnny Gunn: You’re obviously a Brit.
@Lucy: Absolutely spot on. We all know the type.
@Louis Jacob: Give them the full facts so they can exercise “personal responsibility” …
@Lucy: I’m a bit creeped out by the comments here I have to say. People actually don’t get it.
@Johnny Gunn: whenever I see comments like this I know in my bones that the guy engages in what he defends.
@newbie: Pathetic
@newbie: Are you being intentionally provocative or are you just stupid. Apart from having the right to have an opinion, Maria Cahill was raped, so is talking from experience.
Brainless comment.
@Louis Jacob: More than likely he believes in Sharia law which demands that women have to wear a Burkha or at least cover their heads to avoid being raped
@Johnny Gunn: Have you tried NOT raping unconscious women?
@Johnny Gunn: here’s what I don’t get, why isn’t the emphasis on the personal responsibility of the rapist? “Rape is unacceptable but… “, “I’m not racist but” I know I’m paraphrasing but you get the idea
@Louis Jacob: I object to your remark !! What has ‘a Brit ‘ got to do with anything? !
@Dave O Keeffe: You’d swear it was complicated.
@Vera Dawber Power: I just think he’s a Brit. That’s all. It’s a bit of speculation.
@Louis Jacob: by Brit…do you mean ‘British ‘ ???
@Vera Dawber Power: Honestly. My comment upsets you? The justification of rape is fine though? Amazing.
@Johnny Gunn: it is NEVER the victims “responsibility” . the rapist is responsible.
@Vera Dawber Power: Just to clarify things. He made a sweeping comment about the morality of modern Ireland. It struck me as something a Brit would say. What’s the problem?
@Louis Jacob: I certainly did not infer that rape is ‘fine’. Being a Nurse…I had to deal with the shocking trauma of rape victims coming into A & E many a time. Cop on to yourself lady !! !!
@Vera Dawber Power: I’m a guy Vera. You’re not the sharpest are you.
@Vera Dawber Power: johnny gunn doesn’t care about anything.He’s just a person from the UK that comes onto this site just to troll..poorly
@Louis Jacob: Not a nurse either I’d imagine…
@Vera Dawber Power: I bet you’re a big fan of George Hook though. More speculation I know. But I just have a feeling you are.
@Lucy: Why was your comment from earlier, easily the most salient on here, taken down?
PMSL look at all these uber triggered snowflakes!! Brilliant.
@Johnny Gunn: the discussion on personal responsibility should be had. But it is totally inappropriate to link it to the actions of a rape victim.
It is an offensive and misogynistic argument that Hook makes
@Johnny Gunn: You are brilliant man… In a very very sad way.
@Louis Jacob: Rape apologists don’t like it when people point out that in the real world people look out for other people and that when they say in public what the say shielded by the anonymity of the internet people will challenge it. Bar staff up and down the country quietly approach women every day if they see something “off” about a guys behavior or if they’ve “got form”.
@Lucy: I’ve worked in plenty of bars. My family have a bar. I know exactly what you’re talking about.
@George Hogan:
Can you explain what he has to explain? What he is saying is pretty clear to me.
@Johnny Gunn: Very poor trolling,D-.Must do better.
@Bat Daly: Well, since you understand, can you explain please?
@Louis Jacob: And saying he’s a Brit isn’t a sweeping comment. As Vera said Cop on
@Johnny Gunn: Hook apologises leaving his ranting supporters isolated and exposed.
@Fiona deFreyne: doesn’t matter, he had a point but was shouted down by the PC mob. Jim McDaid was also onto something over 10 years ago when he pointed out that suicides are selfish. You’re no friend to would-be victims of rape when you tell them there are no reasonable steps they can take to protect themselves.
@Squarepeg01: protecting yourself is one thing.. Being responsible for the actions of another is quite another. Rape is performed by a rapist. The person being raped is not responsible in any way shape or form for the rapists actions. Should we warn our children to be careful and avoid certain situations if possible, of course, same as we would advise them to always lock their cars so their belongings aren’t stolen, but they are not responsible for the actions of a thief. . they are not and never should be told that they are, responsible for someone else’s actions. That you think that they are, speaks volumes about you and your attitude towards rape victims.
@Jho Harris: we need more burkas
@Dell: No one is responsible for anyone else’s actions, least of all a rapist’s. Whoever said otherwise? But if you don’t take basic precautioms against the car thief, some of the blame is yours if he takes your stuff. Not in the sense of being bad – the thief is the bad one – but in the sense of being foolish. Don’t get caught up in the semantics of ‘blame’ and ‘responsibility’. We should be empowering people in how to stay safe. You don’t do that by hounding someone because they phrased a sensible message awkwardly.
@Treabhair Coulahan: As I said earlier before it was deleted… If I was working the bar and a guy started talking like that I’d be watching him like a hawk…
@Ladude: You need help
@Squarepeg01: no.. You most certainly hound someone who, whether deliberate or otherwise, is victim blaming. It is also good to hilight his double standard and also tell me where does this personal responsibility end and start? Do we start telling women to cover themselves? Always have a chaperone?.. Its all good and well to say that people should try and avoid certain situations, but why are we so willing to limit the personal freedoms of women.. Why not combat the attitude that women who sleep with someone are somehow asking for rape from someone else instead? Because he did after all mention that in his comments, that she had slept with someone within hours of meeting them. Where do we draw the line? Are we going to start telling women not to trust any man they know because most rapes are committed by people they know? I think it is dangerous to attribute any blame or responsibility for someones crime on the victim of that crime. Should we be careful, of course, should we victim blame because they weren’t careful enough, absolutely not. I think maybe having being raped is enough besides trying to make them responsible for someone violating them as well.
@Johnny Gunn: So, the responsibility for rape rests with the woman! If you are a woman, and you go to at night, make sure you don’t have too much to drink. But a man can drink as much as he likes, and can count on it being taken into account in his sentence in court. What responsibility rests with the man? If I were a man, I would be outraged by Hook’s comments. It suggests that men are completely incapable of respect for women, incapable of controlling their urges. It sounds like an apologist for rapists.
@Johnny Gunn: why do you say that Irish people do not accept the concept of personal responsibility? What evidence of this do you have? Are we different to other nations? Just interested.
@Louis Jacob:
Would you ever shut up !
You would put an eye in a dog but he would never blink. !!!
@George Hogan: he means take basic steps for peronal safety and bit of common sense is that too much ask….
@mr non snowflake: it’s also common sense not to rape anyone.
@Mary Maher: We all obviously condemn unreservedly the actions of rapists. However we must also look at personal responsibility and discourage people from putting themselves in dangerous situations. This is not the same as condoning rape. Two different things. Obviously the rapist is 100% culpable for the rape. The victim may be responsible for putting herself in danger. Again, two different things.
he condemns rape and rapists unequivocally.. all he’s saying is that girls should be more careful getting drunk with strangers.
@Donal Kebab: He should instead be saying that boys should be more careful getting drunk with girls and turning into rapists.
@Donal Kebab: And instead of wondering how girls should be raised so they don’t put themselves in danger, he should be wondering how not to raise a rapist son.
@Donal Kebab:
There’s not a mother in Ireland who doesn’t tell her daughter to ‘Be safe’ as she’s heading out the door on a Saturday night before retiring to bed where she lies awake worrying until the daughter comes home.
@Shane Gleeson: “boys should be more careful getting drunk with girls” – quite right
“Woman jailed for 10 years after string of false rape claims”
@Emmet Dillane: Is anything said to sons???
@Emmet Dillane: Us fathers do that too!
@Donal Kebab: You just don’t get it do you.
@Emmet Dillane: hahahahah. That sounds like my mum.
@Louis Jacob: be nice to your brother
@Dave O Keeffe: I might
@Donal Kebab: Actually he firstly goes on to condem the women for having sex with a man she just met. Massive double standard when he makes no comment on the man having sex with a woman he just met. After that pretty significant dig at the woman’s “morals” he goes on about her putting herself in a potentially dangerous situation. Well for a start EVERY woman has a right to not be raped . Every woman has a right to expect not to be raped. The same way as any man does. The same way you or I expect not to be murdered in our homes or robbed in the street. The object here is to change the behaviour of the criminals and those who would be criminals. That is the unacceptable behaviour and that is the wrong behaviour. That is the behaviour we need to deter. We do not limit the behaviour of innocent people on the basis of very dated notions of how women should behave. We don’t give criminals or would be criminals more rights and freedoms than their victims or would be victims. That goes for all genders all crimes . That’s what it boils down to.
Dark sense of humour my dad.
@Donal Kebab: the definition of victim blaming.
@Donal Kebab: He doesn’t condemn it “unequivocally” . That’s the whole point. His equivocation is that, in cases such as those discussed, the woman holds some responsibility. She doesn’t.
@Emmet Dillane: “we don’t want any more illegitimate children un this house” explains why you’re only finding out about Louis now.
@Mo Davis: she doesn’t? If you leave all your house’s windows open while you’re away for a few days, it’s going to be burgled. It doesn’t take away the culpability of the burglar but there’s something you could have done to protect yourself. Sounds like was saying nothing worse than this.
@Shane Gleeson: I think that point was covered by the condemnation of rape and rapists in his comments..
@Donal Kebab: it was right of Hook to apologise.
It leaves his supporters isolated and exposed.
@Donal Kebab: Everyone seems to be saying a version of much the same thing. We all agree every man or woman has every right not to be assaulted, whether that be sexually or not. We all agree if they are unfortunate to be assaulted then the full weight of the law should be thrown at the perpetrator. There are no gender politics involved, male or female, most would agree each should be entitled to the same.
Hook appeared to say that, should someone step off the footpath onto the road they have the right not to be mown down but have the responsibility to ensure they don’t step in front of speeding traffic. Of course a romantic encounter is not quite the same thing and I’m not suggesting rape can in any way be excused, it cannot.
If this were any other assault or injury however it would be permissible to ask “what made you step off the footpath there?” or “why did you walk down that dark alley alone?” This isn’t blaming the victim, it’s recognising that while they have certain rights they also have a responsibility for their own safety, we all do. If you think this isn’t so, male or female, I challenge you to take a walk through the dark alley’s of where you live tonight, you already know where they are. You avoid them. You might get out intact, unscathed, that’s the gamble, but we all know the more often you do this, eventually, some night, you won’t get out. That’s why we avoid dark alleys and cross when the lights are green, personal responsibility.
@Catherine Sims: Nail on the head… This has been a very disturbing comments section
@Shane Gleeson: so it all the boys fault ye, cop on …
@Donal Kebab: I’ve been out with drunk women. You know what I haven’t done? Raped them.
@Squarepeg01: So not only are women partly responsible for their own rape, but they’re also rather like property?
@Donal Kebab: is she not allowed mix with anyone except people she knows when drinking? Most victim’s of rape r know by there attacker as well so your talking guff really,girls should be freely able to get pissed without being sexually assaulted,maybe l’m being an idealist but come on man,
@The_Prince_of_Fire: Why are you assuming that rape can only happen in some unsafe looking places under only certain circumstances?
@anita tuesley: *rolls eyes*
@mr non snowflake: yes. Because you can’t consent to being raped. Rape is by definition non consensual. In small words. Rape is always and only the rapist’s fault.
@mr non snowflake: if that ‘boy’ rapes someone, yes it is! How is that so difficult to understand?
@Paula Hannon: Sorry for the delay replying, just saw your comment now. I didn’t mean to suggest I was assuming anything. However as you wish to raise the issue, my comment was intended to illustrate that we have an awareness of increased risk of assault should we walk down a dark alley alone at night. Should we have to walk through that alley and such an assault occur it doesn’t for one moment suggest it was the victims fault, it isn’t about blaming the victim. At the same, time if there is another, slightly longer route, we choose not to take and we choose to take the risk of walking through the dark alley alone an night, which ultimately results in our assault, it’s permissible for others to ask why. To ask us why didn’t we take the longer route, because we are ultimately responsible for our own safety.
This isn’t intended to sound or be cruel to the poor young girl who had been raped, as I’d said I, along with everyone else, believe those responsible should face at least 20 years each. But that won’t undo what has been done to her.
I’ve always tried to teach a certain degree of responsibility to my own children, boys as well as girls, that everything they do has consequences and their first responsibility is towards themselves. If they are out at night they must ensure to keep themselves safe, I’d say you wouldn’t believe the stories they’ve told me, but you probably would. So far that advice has worked.
@Louise MacMahon: i agree with what you say. but there are situations that are best avoided to stay out of danger, to decrease to chance of something happening. he never said she was to blame he was asking a question, the answer is no she is not to blame but to get fired for asking is PC madness
It’s alarming how many people who describe themselves as liberal, call for those who say things they disagree with to be silenced.
@Chad: you agree that its a womens fault if they are raped in certain conditions? Another coward with a fake account
@Chad: hear, hear
@Chad: Nobody is calling for him to be silenced… They’re calling for him to apologise…
@Chad: a woman went to a hotel room with a guy she met, they had sex, that part is not an issue. Another guy came into the room and raped her. How exactly is that her personal responsibility? Or is your point that she shouldn’t have overstayed her welcome?
@Stephen Coveney: The reason for the fake account is because of online morons like you who just interpretated my comment to mean I believe it’s a woman’s fault if she gets raped.
Read my comment again and see if you can comprehend the point I was making.
@Lucy: Second last sentence in the article.
@Chad: So… are people not entitled to be of the opinion that he should lose his job? He’s still perfectly free to stand on any street corner and spew whatever nonsense he likes… just like Myres is.
@Dave O Keeffe: Please point out anywhere in my opening comment where I said anything about the rape or personal responsibility.
@Lucy: You went from simply wanting him to apologise to losing his job pretty quick.
@Chad: the irony of Hook being asked to take personal responsibility for his comments is clearly lost on you. People are asking for an apology, not his head on a spike.
@Chad: You know what… fu#k him and fu#k you. It’s attitudes like yours and Hooks which lead to rape victims sexual history being put under a microscope on the stand and judges giving reduced sentences to animals because somehow in your minds the victims didn’t do everything in their power not to be raped. Hook should apologise AND lose his job…
@Dave O Keeffe: Poor attempt at deflection. Again, please point out where in my opening comment I mentioned anything about the rape or personal responsibility.
@Dave O Keeffe: No Dave, can you not read? They are looking for his head on a spike.
@Chad: personal responsibility is what people are calling for from him. Who wants him silenced? You don’t need to mention the topic of the article for people to deem it relevant to your comment on said article.
@Stephen Coveney: you make his point very well!
@Stephen Coveney: Do you agree that people have the right to voice their opinions. Even if they’re different to yours.
@Chad: and now he has unreservedly apologised. That’s all that any reasonable person wanted of him
What George Hook said is correct.
@Faustina O Farrell: not for the feminazi Twitter brigade. If a white straight male says it, it must be wrong and evil.
@Steve: BS Steve. It’s just blaming women who get raped, for the rape itself, is disgusting to most right minded people.
@Faustina O Farrell: why doesn’t he stand outside a club and point out the women asking for a raping, see how far that gets him.
@Faustina O Farrell: No – its judgemental. Not all things that look irresponsible actually are intended to be or are irresponsible.
@MK76:
Taking responsibility is not attributing the blame.
@Faustina O Farrell: Actually think he makes somewhat of a good point. Maybe phrased badly but as adults in a truly equal society one must accept a fair portion of responsibility for ones actions while knowing that sexual predators exist and hence going home with a stranger or group of has an inherent risk. This is just logical, sensible. I think that was his point. I don’t believe that he’s implying it’s plainly her fault for getting raped…the mob are foolish, but the mob rules Rome
@Nick Allen: actually it is, if you’re responsible then you’re to blame.
@Dave O Keeffe: He seems desperate as every parent in the world. He wants to tell girls they have to be responsible of their own safety because it doesn’t matter if the raper is the only one to blame or how many years in jail he’ll be or that men have to learn no means no. She has already been raped, and that is not going to change for her.
@Rosa Lopez: *rapist
@Alfie Munro: Next time you want to bring home a girl for something casual I hope you remember your own advice.
@Alfie Munro: As a female that has ended up in really dodgy siyuatio s whilst so drunk i can barely see, i agree with you.
I have ended up in situations where things got sexual, or i had someone following me whilst alone at night, when i was younger. As a potential victim, i had a responsibility to do what i could to remove myself from situations where i wasnt happy or comfortable, which i thankfully managed. Had i been attacked, that attack would not have been my fault. But by taking resposibility for my safety, saying no, getting up and leaving, or moving to crowded places i was able to prevent anything further happening.
A victim, male or female, has a responsibility to themselves to try and remove themselves from the situation to the best of their ability. If they are unable to, and are then attacked, this is NOT their fault. You are only responsible for YOUR actions. The girl being referenced here, her actions put her into a situation she was fine with. It was the actions of the rapists that changed this. Their actions were beyond her control.
@Nick Allen: He wasn’t taking any responsibility. He was doing his utmost to reassure himself that he hasn’t done anything wrong. That wasn’t helpful to the people attacked by rapists. It was him wittering on about wishful thinking. Time people copped on and demonstrated a fraction of tact and empathy to the actual victims of any assault, instead of pontificating about what didn’t happen to them.
First they came for Myers now they come for Hook, this is a slow purge of the very few right wing dissenters in the Irish media echo chamber.
@Johnny Gunn: I agree 100% with you.
@Johnny Gunn: Fight back, Johnny.
Form a right wing, anti Vaxxer, pro rape victim blaming party.
Stand for election.
Or stop whinging like a three year old.
@Brinster: and yet you’re the one getting in a tizzy about someone’s insensitive, indelicate, yet correct statement. No doubt you’d like Hook to be sacked and insensitive and blunt speech that triggers you, to be banned. I’m sure Fiona de Fascist will be along soon, furiously squinting through her binliner, to back you up.
@Brinster: do you ever contribute,without knocking someone.Boring.
@Johnny Gunn: Wow an anti-Semite, a masogynist and a rape apologist. A real credit to the human race.
@Johnny Gunn: with a bit of luck.
@Johnny Gunn: Are you the same Johnny Gunn that was talking about taking personal responsibility two comments ago? Does it not apply to people who make sexist or racist remarks then?
@Johnny Yes. Chris Donahue seems to have caught the “Sarah McInerney type Fascist PC, take offence at the sliest thing” disease, that also insists that no other opinions be expressed unless it coinsides with The PC police
@Johnny Gunn: snowflake
@Johnny Gunn: shocking isn’t it.
Privately owned media decide to remove fossilised and antediluvian commentators who have no commercial relevance or attraction because their viewpoints are outmoded and redundant in modern times.
Why can’t be have spokesmen for the Spanish Inquisution any more?
@willypearson: Please oh please look up where term sbowflake actually comes from hin 1930′s Germany.
@Johnny Gunn: what sort of parallel universe do you inhabit where you somehow think misogynistic, loudmouth, victim blaning bullies like Hook and Myers are somehow victims?
@Johnny Gunn: and now Hook has rightly apologised. Where does that leave you?
@Fiona deFreyne: he was probably threatened with firing. Should we now consider confessions extracted under duress admissable?
@Squarepeg01: So basically you’re saying the guy you’ve stood up for all morning doesn’t have the principles to stand beside what he said ? It’s not like he’s short a bob or needs the job you know…
@Ossi Fritsche: http://www.snopes.com/snowflake-nazi-term-holocaust/
Wrong. It doesn’t originate from 1930′s Germany.
@Johnny Gunn: cop yourself on.
@Fiona deFreyne:
George is old school. He mostly talks a lot of sense. But when in full flow you won’t Torquemada saying something controversial.
Surprising that George didn’t adopt a more chivalrous tone, by stating the first man had to accept some responsibility here, for the later attack, by not securing her space, remaining there, and protecting her until she sobered up.
Ah Jesus he has a point – everyone has some level of personal responsibility – I think Hooks point is valid and needs to be heard! Society is what we create we can’t live in a utopia like Chris thinks we can!! Fluffy clouds with unicorns
@Shane Cormican: And it’s attitudes like that which lead to rapists in some cases being allowed to pay off their victims instead of being sentenced to prison terms…
@Shane Cormican: Have you tried NOT raping unconscious women?
@DaisyChainsaw: what ARE you
@Gearoid O’Helidhe: so you’re the father of a daughter and you think if she gets too drunk she’s fair game? It’s her fault???? Wow!
@Gearoid O’Helidhe: The attitude that a woman is somehow personally responsible if she if raped you fool. You’re the one’s arguing that a woman should be constantly aware of her surroundings at all times least she be sexually assaulted . You’re the one arguing that your daughters/all women bear some responsibility should they be raped having not followed a certain set of undefined rules.. I honestly pity your daughters with a father like you because god knows if they’re ever in real trouble you’ll be right there to point out that they have to accept “personal responsibility” for what’s happened to them..
@Lucy: Lucy I’m just saying we all need to be responsible for our surrounding environment – that includes men too you know!!
@Lucy: You are quite abusive to any poster who puts it up to you Lucy, Not a very convincing strategy for debate.
Methinks you have issues you need to address
@Bat Daly: Ah diddums.. did I hurt your feelings ? Maybe you should take some personal responsibility and go somewhere else….
@Shane Cormican: Chris is one of the snowflake generation and has spent too many years brown nosing enda and O Brien
@Lucy: it’s called the big bad world. People will get attacked out there
@Lucy:I think that you are not a terrible person but your posts are insensitive to say the least.
One of the nastiest posts yet. Keep her lit Lucy, you’re in flying form. You don’t someone yet you are able to assess their parenting skills by their posts.
I’d say its like me saying that you are fat and ugly (or both) and you have a chip on your shoulder because men don’t find you attractive, but I’d never say that.
Why?
Because, I don’t know you and know nothing about you so would have no right to say it, but you seem to think you can.
Go figure.
Now, any more bile to spew at men
I sitting by with the popcorn.
@Shane Cormican: you’re right Shane….society is what we create…we are in the 21st century and because of people with attitudes like you we are creating more rapists. It is never the victims fault. I’m shocked at the comments on this page from ‘so called men’ blaming a woman for being raped instead of being real men and talking about how disgusting rapists are.
@Debbie Cregan: but nobody is doing that.
@Shane Cormican: Yes there is personal responsibility, of the rapist not to harm someone else. Why is this line of thinking not more obvious to everyone?
An older white man talking common sense? The feminsit anti everything brigade won’t like that.
@Steve: using Hooks logic I should assume you are a facist so as to not be surprised if you start spouting nonsense
@Aidan O’Donovan: I hope you asked permission from whoever wears the trousers in your household before using the Internet today. Wouldn’t want to upset or offend anyone would you?
@Aidan O’Donovan: the word facist gets throw around now to the obsuricity of the meaning.
@Jonathan Byrne: I didn’t call him a fascist
@Steve: The anti every thing brigade ? Didn’t realise being against blaming victims of rape for being raped was such a terrible thing…
@Gearoid O’Helidhe: Except it wasn’t unequivocal was it ? It came with a caveat…a rather large “but”… as in he unequivocally condemns rape BUT women should do more to protect themselves which places some of the blame on rape victims if they happen to be drunk or walking alone or not watching their drinks like a hawk or whatever. Maybe he’d like to visit a rape crisis center sometime to get some perspective on just how damaging his comments actually are.. he’s not just some private citizen sitting at the end of a bar spouting rubbish. He has access to hundreds of thousands of listeners who are influenced and affected by what he says… and he should either apologise or be removed…
@Lucy: Lucy, I think you are cherry picking Hook’s comments. Read in context, he is just advocating that women should be more careful and of they’re not, some personal responsibility has to be taken. He is not blaming any women who has been raped but merely stating the obvious.
@Bat Daly: But it’s exactly what he’s doing. You can’t separate the two. If on one hand he’s saying that women have to take personal responsibility for their safety he can’t then say then say that if they somehow lapse and something happens that he doesn’t believe that that lapse was a contributing factor…
@Steve: what if you were raped Steve? Would it be your fault and the ‘male anti everything ‘ brigade over acting then? Course not..I would t be so quick to judge Steve…rape can happen to anyone..even you.
Newstalk please don’t give in to the leties/ PC brigade….
Hook is great at the job, Ivan and George are a balance on the air to leties like Chris Donohue.
@mr non snowflake: You mean those horrible people who don’t believe that a rape victim is ever to blame for being raped… It’s no wonder this country has such a reputation for being soft on sexual predators…
@mr non snowflake: yep the “men” on here want to blame a woman for drinking rather than the man who holds her down and forces his pen!s inside her. Sure what was she expecting? Disgusting. I hope you don’t have daughters or sons for that matter.
@Deborah Behan:
Its not as black and white as that (as you well know). People can help to lessen the risk of any crime being perpetrated against them by their actions. If I walk down a street known for crime with lots of 50 euro notes visibly sticking out of my pocket do you think that puts me at a higher risk of becoming the victim of crime than if I avoided the particular street and kept my cash safely tucked away?
@Deborah Behan: go read all the comments again and you will see you are taking shite
@Lucy: Lucy I’m sure you believe in few speech just as long as you have the last word! If you actively listened you might learn that it’s dangerous out there and we all need to take care
@Nick Allen: ah Nick! Don’t speak rubbish! That’s not a good example…..that’s basically saying women shouldn’t be near men because a woman could be raped by a man. Women should just lock themselves up should they? In case they are in the same area as a man? It can happen anywhere Nick and it can also happen to men…but a man being raped would never be blamed for being a victim! That’s the difference here. Men should be protecting women not raping them or blaming them for being raped. …by blaming a victim it’s like saying you accept what the perpetrator did! You should be ashamed
@Debbie Cregan:
When you grow up a little and mature your thought process you may be in a position to cast judgement on me. Until then keep up posting uninformed rubbish
George said nothing that I haven’t said to my own daughters many a time and I heard the piece and thought at first ‘careful there George’ but then he clearly qualified his sensible advice with his condemnation of rape and rapists. George Hook is a very intelligent and sensible radio presenter and rarely if ever puts his foot in it unlike Chris Donoghue whose ego must be hurting after his recent demotion from the drive time slot.
@winston smith: What do you tell your sons? If a woman or girl is the worst for wear then she’s fair game?
@winston smith: so if your daughter got drunk and went with a man but another man comes in and rapes her it’s her fault? Nice dad.
If I had sons I’d tell them don’t get drunk and hang around certain areas or clubs because you are bound to be beaten and or robbed or worse…hang out with friends who will stick together…pretty much what I’d say to my daughters…I’d hope that I’d passed values onto them to think very carefully about going off with an unknown guy for many reasons including sexual diseases as George mentioned. I have posted the link to the George Hook show who condemed strongly the rapist and the act as I also do but the reality is everyone has to take their share of responsibility about which situation they place themselves in male or female for their peronal security.
@Deborah Behan: I don’t think your getting it nobody has said it’s ok rape anyone…..the lad she went back to the hotel with has a responsibility to her and so does she to herself. It’s a rough world out there be careful is the message.
@Billy Loughman: I don’t think the lady wants to get it, no matter what is said against her view she twists and contorts it
@winston smith: so how will your daughter ever meet someone…be in a relationship etc. Rape can happen at any time. …it sounds like you are teaching her that it will always be her fault if she’s raped…that’s sick!! You should be teaching your sons not to be rapists…not teach your daughter that it will be her fault if she’s raped!
@Debbie Cregan: Leave aside for a moment whether anyone is actually saying that “it will be her fault if she’s raped”. This isn’t some academic world where the only thing that matters is taking an ethically sound position. This is the real world where a small number of men rape women. It would be a really bad thing for my daughter to get raped and I don’t want it to happen. Isn’t it more sensible to tell her how to reduce her risk of getting raped than rely on everyone else to try to persuade their son not to rape her? Seriously, however good that position feels, it’s utterly insane.
My opinion is he should perhaps clarify his comments for those who have been offended by them. I do not believe he should retract them because he has said nothing wrong. There are many amongst us who knowingly found ourselves in situations that may have led us to harm, do we blame ourselves? Taking responsibility for our actions is better than accepting blame, however, responsibility is lost on many people. Hook is also questioning effective parenting, how we educate our children, how we prepare our children for life.
@Nick Drake: how about educating the boys to respect women and not to rape them? How do you clarify that he believes she is at least partially responsible for having a pen!s forced inside her? When you see a passed out woman do you think yeah she’s up for it and sure it’s her fault?
@Deborah Behan: totally irresponsible to drink youself into a state were you pass out
@Deborah Behan: Deborah, I think we should be respecting each other a hell of a lot more than we do right now, and respecting ourselves. Unfortunately we do not, and your comments in general tend to reflect that sad truth. I try to teach my boys to have self respect and then respect others, I also try to teach my daughter the same. There are too many unknowns as to what we do when we are experimenting with life, as we do as young adults.
I’m sure that if and when, the day comes that you are capable of expanding your thought process you will see your above comment and cringe with embarrassment.
@Nick Drake: it’s a part of life that we all end up in situations where it could be dangerous…but a male and female meeting is a normal part of life….raping someone isn’t!!! It worries me how many sick victim blaming comments are on this page…and from people who call themselves men!! What if you went back to a girls place and her gay male friend raped you? You wouldn’t be victim blaming then or taking responsibility for getting raped would you? I really hope you and a lot of males on this page don’t have daughters!
@Debbie Cregan: If you read my comment you would see that I do have a daughter, however instead you prefer to do what far too many people do these days, jump to conclusions and take everything out of context. Did I mention rape in my comment? No, but you did. I am not victim blaming, you are in that space, not me. You seem like a hysterical person, as incapable as certain others here, not worth engaging any further with for mature discussion.
I’m struggling to see where he said something wrong?
@Anthony Halpin: here’s where Anthony……just pretend you met a girl…you both get on great….you go back to her place….end up in bed because you both wanted to…..she leaves the room…..and her big male gay friend rapes you ….simply because he can…..is it your fault? You’d see something wrong then wouldn’t you? It wouldn’t be the victims fault then would it?
Hang on here,Knee-jerk Irish response here we go.I do not believe George Hook condones Rape.
He’s just presenting the worry we all have about our lovely daughters.Its the sleazy creeps who prowl bars and nightclubs taking advantage of girls who have a few drinks and are entitled to and then the creeps move on them.As a parent I worried sick every time my girls went out and they were in their 20s but I still wouldn’t sleep until they were home safe.Dont blame Hook.
@gerry fallon: no one said he condoned rape so stop trying to twist the story.
@Stephen Coveney: I’m not twisting any story you fool.go on back asleep and try make sensible comments ok.
@Stephen Coveney: Stevie are you just really dumb or do you have to practice? Do you ever actually read a comment before hurling abuse?
@gerry fallon: Those “sleazy creeps” are your lovely sons, by the way.
@gerry fallon: sleezy creeps? They are the men of Ireland and would you not prefer that they were thought to respect your daughter in a society that says rape is completely unacceptable and totally the man’s fault? I have a daughter too and I would never blame her for a man forcing his pen!s inside her. Never.
@DaisyChainsaw: and yours my dear, and yours
@gerry fallon: she wasn’t in a bar or nightclub….that’s the point..she thought she met someone nice and his disgusting friend went and raped her!!
@Debbie Cregan: she had never met the guy before so how could she tell? She was putting herself in a vulerable position to say the least, and so does every woman who embarks on a one night stand.
@Squarepeg01: still not an excuse for rape though was it ?
@Suzie Sunshine: apparently women don’t understand how sexualised they are in the minds of men and they need to be careful about what message they are giving out..
@Dell: yes, of course! How is this even controversial? We should all be careful of the messages we’re sending out. The first line of self-defence is awareness. I’m sorry you can’t do exactly as you’d like but this is the real world and criminals restrict many of our freedoms.
@Squarepeg01: unbelievable.. The fact that no matter how much people are pointing out and trying to reason with you, you are content to continue with a line of victim blaming. I’ll say it one more time, it is one thing to point out the dangers in a situation and to let people know there are bad people out there, it is another to say that when you are out socialising and one of the bad people rapes you, you were sending out wrong messages to them by being a sexually active adult with someone else.
There seems to be a huge proportion of posters of comments not necessarily agreeing with Hooky but admitting that his comments aren’t outlandish and we need to take personal responsibility for the situations we place ourselves in. Then why don’t ye make yer voices heard? It seems it’s the ‘chris Donoghoes of this world that dominate any public discourse. I’m too old to navigate social media but I expect those that can will do so.
@Shane Kelly: she did take responsibility for the situation she was in…she met a guy and agreed to sleep with him….that’s all that should have happened…..but a rapist with a ‘she’s put herself in a bad situation so I now have a right to rape her because she will get the blame’ attitude went and raped her…because he could and he knew majority of other males would back him up by blaming her!!
@Debbie Cregan: where do you get the idea that anyone thinks the rapist has the right to rape the girl just because she was foolish? Complete non-sequitur.
Everyone is responsible for their own safety, and some people respect this more than others. A burgler will choose the house with no alarm, over the house that’s alarmed, the most vulnerable house. And I reckon that’s what George is trying to say. A rapist will choose the most vulnerable, and the chap has a point.
@BatMon: you know Hook suggested people hit cyclists with sticks. If you expand his logic to cyclists they should arm themselves due to this threat so as not to put themselves at risk.
I don’t know if Hook mentioned it but going out binge drinking, going out and being around people binge drinking or going to a party/house with binge drinkers are relatively dangerous activities. Any given day we see what happens when we drink too much;emotions run high, fights occur, people get assaulted and worse. Personal responsibility comes into it because we choose to put ourselves in these (relatively) dangerous situations. For us men our risks mostly relate to being assaulted or doing something foolish, it’s happened me a few times, nothing too serious. We tend to shrug it off and repeat the behavior. I’ve seen women physically assaulted on nights out too, they are at risk of physical assaults too. Unfortunately they too face the risk of sexual assault. Would we seriously tell our daughters that it is OK to ignore risks when the consequences are so high? Is it responsible to tell people that they have zero personal responsibility to themselves to reduce risk where possible? People are conflating folk like Hook decrying the drop in expectation within modern society of expecting people to take personal responsibility for their behavior with victim blaming. There is a reason we tell kids monster stories and fairy tales; there are monsters out there and we need to know this and we need to behave like we know this to try and avoid unnecessary suffering.
@Mike: the question is Mike…why don’t people teach their sons not to be rapists, don’t back up for a rapist, don’t support a rapist etc. They don’t. It’s just accepted that some guys will do it..they get 6 months if even and that’s that.
@Debbie Cregan: I’m all for better social protections and incentives to get parents to raise children who treat people with respect. The trouble is that your argument against personal responsibility goes against that. What’s stopping the perpetrator saying that he is a victim of his upbringing and ethnic/class/social identity? Everyone as a victim is bad for society. If a rapist only gets 6 months we need longer sentences handed down, I’ll not argue with that.
@Debbie Cregan: That’s a load of nonsense and no, it is not the question. “Why don’t people teach their sons not to be rapists” – stop talking drivel. It is not accepted, that’s why we have Arbour Hill prison for God’s sake, sex offenders can’t be housed with the rest of the prison population because even the lowest of the low detest them. As Mike says, you yourself are shifting responsibility from the offender to their circumstances. A man who rapes, sexually molests or otherwise takes advantage of another person, be they male or female, has made that decision because they have an innate lack of respect for another person’s autonomy. Rape is not a learned behaviour. A man who is capable of doing that to a woman is a born lowlife, however they were raised. The idea that young men and boys need to be “taught” not to be rapists is as good as saying that men don’t know any better, which is a slight against the overwhelming majority of men in our society who would never do that to a woman.
Sour grapes from Chris that George still has a show on the station! Group Political Editor is the most invented position imaginable. Can’t hack it on air without a decent partner to carry him.
George Hook has accidentally highlighted all that is wrong with this country today, which is that if you have a differing viewpoint on something that happens in the media, you get shouted down and abused on social media. In this case, if you are not asking for George Hook to be fired, then expect to be called a “rape culture enabler” on social media and a “victim blamer”.
The vast vast majority of men would burn a rapist out of his home if he tried to move in next door to him, the vast vast majority of men would immediately call security if he found a woman in a vulnerable situation passed out from alcohol on a bathroom floor.
The vast vast majority of men would also go out of their way to sit down with their kids (male or female) entering adulthood and warn them of the dangers that are out there in the world of today, where you could be out for a night out and have a Larry Murphy or Graham Dwyer type predator sitting beside you. And it isn’t just women who are vulnerable, men are too. Every parent talks to their kids in this regard and just hopes that they listen to the advice given and that the dreaded knock at the door at 3AM never happens, where you have 2 Gardai informing you that your son is in a critical condition and on a life support machine after a drunken fight got out of hand, or that your daughter is in the sexual assault unit after being raped while unconscious from alcohol on a bathroom floor. Any parent getting this news at 3AM, the first thing they will think is, “WTF, why did they put themselves in such a vulnerable situation? HOW/WHY did they get into that drunken fight, HOW/WHY did they end up in a room with a stranger and unconscious drunk on the bathroom floor?”…
So people asking for George Hook to be sacked and those roaring abuse on social media today at anyone who doesn’t agree with them, please accept that there are men out there who agree with what he has said and it does not make them “rape culture enablers” or “victim blamers”.
This is all that is wrong today with the politcally correct left in this country, they have actually lost it! No view that is not completely in line with their own, is acceptable. Everything else must be targeted and shut down as healthy debate.
@Exit Eire: with that avatar, I’m not surprised that you are triggered.
@Exit Eire: I agree with you 100%. Well said.
@Exit Eire: the difference is if it happened to a man there would be sympathy for him and rightly so but when it’s a woman people automatically jump to the ‘what was she wearing, where was she, who was she with ‘ mind frame. Automatically looking to blame her for putting herself in that situation. That’s what this society should be trying to change. Read the rape stats. Barely 1%of real rapists get time. Do you reckon every single woman who got raped put themselves in a dangerous situation? If we cracked down more on rapists , way more jail time, shamed in public etc. His friends disown him etc
there would be less guys willing to rape! It was not her fault she met a guy and he stood by while his friend raped her.
@Debbie Cregan: rapists should get the book thrown at them, no question. But you’re wrong to assume it should be the same for men as for women. Like it or not, the physical female form is sexualised in men’s eyes that women don’t fully understand. Women have to think what kind of signals they’re sending out and what kind of monsters might be reading them.
@Squarepeg01: so you are basically saying men are not completely in control of themselves when it comes to women? Maybe we should all dress more modestly.. Fashion ourselves some kind of veil.. A tent like outfit, that way we won’t be tempting any of these monsters. Are you for real???
@Dell: if you’re living in Saudi Arabia, yes. Because if you don’t you will be attacked. Do you want to be attacked? Since you live in the west, you don’t have to cover up to that extent to be safe and we should all be thankful for that. But if you walked around in your lingerie all the time? Look, I’ll bet rape is a spectrum. Most men in Ireland (I hope) would never rape under any circumstances. At the other extreme are the relatively few men who are always looking to rape someone. In between are men who become rapists under certain circumstances: too much drink, ‘she looks like she wants it’ etc. All I’m saying is to be aware that there are people like that and there are things a woman can do to reduce the likelihood of falling into their clutches.
Such an emotive subject and always gets a knee jerk for even suggesting women be cautious. If you tell anyone not to walk through certain areas of towns at night carrying expensive cameras and money and basically presenting themselves as vulnerable, they will thank you and proceed with caution. I think that’s basically all Hook was saying and the text would leave you thinking he was processing his thoughts out loud. Why didn’t someone like Ms Cahill accept the invite to discuss the things he said on the show and have it out? Discussion and debate is healthier than witch hunts and blame games. I don’t for one minute think he was blaming women who get raped for what happened to them.
@A H: the difference is you don’t say or believe that someone was asking for it if they get robbed while out walking alone
100% agreed. I listened and was also thinking ‘careful now’…. George said exactly what I tell my daughters.
To my mind, he was not associating ‘blame’ with the victims of rape in any way… he even was not saying anything about the victims being at fault for being taped. He was talking about ‘responsibility’ for ones actions in being safe not ‘taking responsibility’ for being raped.
I think there is a lot of misconception of his intent because he used the word responsibility. It’s being understood by some as ‘blame’.
.
@Ding Ding Denny: so responsibility for their own rape is not blaming a victim for the rape. Okay.
@Fiona deFreyne: are you really that thick? He did not say that but go ahead and distort what he said to suit the victim stance. He said….now listen carefully….that going to a hotel room under the influence of alcohol with a man you don’t know may not be the best idea ever…got it now?
The all conforming Snowflake Donaghue has a bad case of sour grapes.
Maybe he might get somewhere in journalism if he came up with some original thoughts.
@TravellingTheWorld: I don’t think that George Hook cover ever be accused of being original.
@TravellingTheWorld: How do you feel about Hook’s conforming apology? Too much of a whiny snowflake to stand over his actual beliefs so he lies to say he’s sorry.
@DaisyChainsaw: a personal call from Dinny made him apologise.
@TravellingTheWorld: Hook the Cuck!
Let’s take everything out of proportion which equates everything into sensationilsm , that’s the way forward right? People only hear what they be wanna hear, it seems.
For once I agree with George. His comments should be read in their totality. People unfortunately do put themselves in danger, when it could be avoided. Maybe if we knew the exact circumstances, a different picture may emerge. No one in their right senses would condone rape.
@Brendan T. M. P. Bur: I disagree to a certain extent, but I do think there is some legitimacy in what George was saying.
As regards this case, he is wrong. Just because someone has a few drinks and decides to go home with someone doesn’t mean they are being irresponsible.
But I think the point Hook is trying to make has more legitimacy for people who drink themselves into a state of paralysis. After all, people who use date rape drugs are trying to achieve the condition that some people voluntarily put themselves in.
This is not to say that people who are raped while blacked out are to blame. But when it comes to rape there seems to be a stigma in giving advice for how people can avoid being victims of it. Saying that people who drink themselves unconscious put themselves at greater risk of being attacked shouldn’t be controversial. If I left my front door open and someone came into my house and stole my TV, I wouldn’t have “deserved” to have my TV stolen, but I also could have taken steps to lessen the likelihood of it happening.
Nothing that hook said condones rape . It seems these days that its impossible to have any opinion that differs even slightly from the one that is politically correct speak. You almost need a new language now !! and those of us who cant speak it stay silent . And of course isint that the purpose of the ” new politically correct crowd “
Regardless of what he said, GH and CD are why I listen to podcasts now instead of the radio. Off the ball is still a great shout.
Donoghue’s comment was laughable as well. He is that someone. Works at the same station, has position that carries weight, should have torn him a new one.
@Shane Gleeson: cannot stand that man!
George you are right Personal Responsibility is what this country needs not this terrible sense of ENTITLEMENT that is rampant among the young nowadays.
@Frank Daly Snr: So if a girl is raped she must take some responsibility ?
@Lucy: accirding to George Hook’s standards, if she had any alcohol and was not civered all over in body concealing clothing, she is to blame because Irishmen can’t control themselves.
Hook is ascribing to all Irishmen Hook’s own personal standards.
@Fiona deFreyne: Makes you wonder if he’s speaking from experience.
@DaisyChainsaw: that thought has occurred to me based on his attitudes.
@Fiona deFreyne: @daisychainsaw:
Very snide and nasty remarks which I hope Hook reads.
Potentially libellous and if I was Hook, I’d be looking for your contact details from the Journal.
The thing none of the Maud Flanders type pick up on here is that the accused was acquitted of rape and the jury didn’t reach a verdict in the other charge n so there was no victim to blame
Just the usual media storm when anyone questions the victim narrative
He quite clearly and obviously blamed rapists for these situations and then he also put it out there if there was anything or any advice that could be taken for people not to put themselves in a situation to be raped. A lot of people out there love to attack common sense for no sane reason. It would also be good advice for boys to do their best to avoid situations where they might be at risk to be raped by girls or indeed by other boys. This is not a gender war, it’s about keeping as safe as possible from predators of every type cause they are all out there looking for the easiest most vulnerable prey. Hook is suggesting to do your best not to be in a vulnerable situation but I’m sure the lynch mobs out there will hear what they want to hear.
@John Mullin: A woman put herself in a situation where she had consensual sex with a man in his hotel room. Another man put himself in the position of rapist. Are women not supposed to have sex in case they get raped by some guy’s friend?
@DaisyChainsaw: on.y men can be allowed have sex, not women.
@DaisyChainsaw: as long as the wimmen get to have their sex, like, I guess we don’t need to be worried about teaching girls a basic awareness of the world.
@Daisy Firstly: I stated that its not about gender cause everyone male & female needs to be more responsible for their own safety & I meant in every walk of life, driving, swimming, sexual behaviour, drinking habits, diet, etc. Secondly, this is an ongoing case where there is a claim of ALLEGED rape that happened over a year before she reported it, where the only other witness denies it happened & the help text she claims she sent that night can’t be found by her or her service provider. She also admits to passing out several times during the night. It’s only last week a woman got jailed for making several false rape claims causing one man to be wrongly sent to jail. I didn’t see your posts then. There is a lot of victim blaming going around but let’s wait to see WHO is the victim first
I don’t like George Hook. Yet regards his comments, it’s strange that i find myself agreeing with commentors i normally never agree with, and disagreeing with many i would normally agree with on various issues. Hook on this occasion has a valid point.
Best thing George can do now is offer an immediate retraction and apologise to all rape victims.
@Emmet Dillane:
Weather someone agrees or disagree one thing is certain,
It will be a cold day in hell when George Hook apologizes for something he says.
People who say homeless people being homeless is “all their own fault” should not be excluding the very real possibility some rape victims should have taken some responsibility for their activities and surroundings.
@P.J. Nolan:
‘Hold on..back up the truck there PJ’
@P.J. Nolan: “Weather”, “cold day” – haha I see what you did (or maybe didn’t do) there…
@Tom Tom:
Don’t tell anyone.
@P.J. Nolan:
Typical, say he will not do something and he goes and does exactly that.
@P.J. Nolan: He did apologise but the again, it is actually quite cold today! :)
Jesus Bat, you’re right…!
HAVE I…? IS THIS…?
AAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH…
*dragged by demons into eternal inferno*
Maybe those who believe George was out of line should listen to the facts http://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/High_Noon/Highlights_from_High_Noon/203314/4_year_olds_cant_talk_megastorms_the_norm_and_housing
@winston smith: I started to listen and couldn’t get passed his blatant ageism. One minute he is complaining about how people are being discriminated in RTE due to their age and then he is taking swipes at people because of their age by going on about the “young” minister. He isn’t just out of touch with reality but prejudice. He isn’t out of date because of his age it is his views and he doesn’t get a pass because of his age.
@Gearoid O’Helidhe: not my fault you can’t follow it. It is probably because it is articulated you don’t understand. It would be ageist to excuse his behaviour because of his age, hold him responsible for his outdated views
Chris Donoghue and The Sarah McInerney type PC police stuff that allows for no other options but their’s. It’s a type of PC fascism. At least she has lost her afternoon Soap Box for expounding her personal opinions on ever subject. Whatever about Donoghue, she wad not a good presenter !
@Randal McNally: and you are off. Trigger pulled and away.
It’s all Trumps fault.
I think a lot of people need to slow down and try and understand what he might have been trying to say.
If I park my car in a dodgy part of town and leave my laptop in the front seat of the car clearly visible for all to see and leave my car , come back later and the window is smashed and laptop gone , am I to blame? No. The blame lies with the criminal who stole it. Could I have taken extra precautions to ensure that it did not happen? I could have parked somewhere else and kept my laptop hidden away. Leaving the laptop visible increased the chances of something dodgy happening. Is it right? No. Is it fair? Nope.
But the reality is there will always be criminals, always potential rapists somewhere. You can never know when something bad is going to happen. You can however increase or decrease the likelihood of something happening to you.
If you’re walking down a dodgy street with your valuables all visible , your expensive phone out , and somebody snatches it and runs off; Does society blame you? Not really no. That’s not how people react. Before you go out that day someone might tell you to look out for yourself if you’re going through a dodgy area , keep your wits about you , that’s not the same as flat out BLAMING you for being a victim of crime.
So take a woman who gets plastered drunk and goes back to a house with someone she met that night. Is it her right? Absolutely. Is it advisable? You’re taking a risk. It’s not fair but the world is not fair. That’s the reality. If you’re plastered in the early hours at someones house and everyone there is a complete stranger , you’re putting yourself in a vulnerable position.
Being told that it is wise to take precautions is not the same as being BLAMED for something. Giving George Hook the benefit of the doubt , that’s what he might have been trying to say. If that’s what he was trying to say he could have worded it better. However George Hook has a habit of saying backward things lately so I’m not certain his exact feelings on the issue.
@Simon: In short: Women, don’t go out, don’t have fun, don’t have sex because men can’t be trusted not to rape you.
@DaisyChainsaw: *strangers* can’t be trusted not to rape you. A stranger could have any array of sinister ideas. Do what you like. The vast majority of the time you’ll be fine. It does not eliminate the possibility.
You probably won’t get robbed on the street today, it is possible though. I’m not insisting that you stay at home and avoid humanity though. I think you deliberately took my words and put an extreme spin on them when you know damn well that is not what I meant.
@DaisyChainsaw: That’s not what Simon is saying. At all. Hook might have overstepped the mark but I can’t see that there’s anything wrong with asking people to be careful. I’d say the same to my children- boys and girls. Tell someone where you’re going. Keep on eye on your friends. Like telling children not to get into cars with strangers, just use your common sense.
@Simon: A woman is more likely to be raped by someone she knows.
Question to those condemning Georges comments; Would you leave your front door open when you go out? Would you leave your child with a known paedophile? Would you leave your luggage unattended in an airport? Its called taking responsibilty and not putting yourself in a vunerable situation. Because in an ideal world robbers, paedophiles, drug traffickers and rapists wouldnt exist but they do. And in this world we must do our best to protect ourselves and those we love from falling victim to them.
@Chris Martin: there is a huge difference between telling people to be wary of these situations before the fact and saying that someone is partly responsible for their own rape after the fact It’s called victim blaming and a lot of people on here seem very comfortable with it.
@Dell: How is it victim blaming to tell someone to be responsible and have some awareness? Thinking that you are safe amongst strangers with alcohol shows incredible naivety. If you go to London/Brussels/Paris and they tell you to have awareness of terrorism do you not take any responsibility?
@Stevie Doran: no one is responsible for a rapists actions except a rapist. Most rapes are committed by someone the victim is acquainted with, those victims are no more responsible for the rape than those who over drank and got raped by strangers. It’s one thing to warn people to try stay safe, it is another to say that because they made the unwise decision to trust someone, they somehow partially responsible for their rape. Also, she did not want to have sex with this person, he raped her, if he had know her and she was drunk, chances are he would have raped her, if he had known her and she had been drugged, chances are he would have raped her.. In which case should women not drink, go to parties or concerts or basically be anywhere that men could possibly rape them, including their own homes, where a lot of rape takes place.
@Dell: nice dodge of Stevie’s points. Nobody said the girl is responsible for the rapist’s actions. That’s squarely on him. But she is responsible for her own actions. She CAN be blamed for being foolish. (Before you scratch my eyes out, this is NOT the same as blaming her for encouraging the rape.) The confusion arises because the rapist is a moral agent. If he was an inanimate object, it would be obvious that what Hook said is valid. If she (or he, for that matter) walked drunk along the cliffs of Moher and fell over the edge, she would be guilty of being dumb.
@Squarepeg01: if a man were to go home with a woman and have sex with her and she were to leave the room and another man were to enter the room and rape the man, you can be guaranteed no one would even mention responsibility with regards to the victim. But more importantly, when people start saying things about someone showing more responsibility after they have been raped, you are then opening the door to people deciding which rapes are more like “real” rapes or not and we are back to a time of people saying things like she was asking for it because she is a sexually active adult human being… Which, by the way is borderline what he does when questioning her decision to sleep with someone she barely knew. Yes it’s OK to warn people, no it’s not ok to alot any blame on the victim of any crime. Her decisions whether foolish or not have sweet F all to do with the crime of rape. There is a huge difference between not locking your car and infringing on a womans right to socialise, be sexually active etc. Its far better to deal with the rapists than it is to infringe on a human beings rights. Making it very clear that a rapist is completely responsible for their own actions and that it will not be tolerated is a much better way to deal with this.,
@Dell: it IS different for men and women because unlike prison, it would be unusual for a man to be at risk of rape in the situation you describe. The only difference between not locking your car and socialising while being clueless about the dangers around you is in the severity of the potential consequences. It’s too late to deal with rapist after he’s raped your daughter when some training in how to stay safe would have done her more good. Try telling a rapist about your rights. The last part of your argument seems to be a worry that the judiciary is too stupid to understand that the fault always lies with the rapist in cases of rape. And you know, that’s probably a valid enough fear.
@Squarepeg01: if it is different for a man than it is for a woman because it is more common for men to rape then it is time to fix that and not settle for women having less freedoms than men and victim blame them after they have been raped. The equivalent of what you are saying is that black people should have know better than to have moved into white neighbourhoods when their houses were burned down, sure it was wrong for their house to be burned down but they should have taken personal responsibility and not moved there. Stop victim blaming squarepeg, you can paint it anyway you like, but it is exactly what you are doing.
Shock Jock Hook is so desperate to make himself relevant that he will even argue things he disagrees with in order to get attention….
I am 68years old I grew up in an Ireland controlled by a very powerful moral faction who dictated what we thought and what we said. Anybody who disagreed with them openly was pilloried. If they were in public office or a position of influence they were driven out of it or they were forced to conform. They controlled politics, education,the law and the media. There was no such thing as freedom of speech or dissent. In fact they controlled our lives. This has all changed. HASN’T IT!!!!
Completely not a fan of Hook, i think he is a posh snob that hides behind this fuddy-duddy face-palm commentry BUT i think in this he is taken out of context.. his remark was in his usual roundabout way that women should be more careful when drunk or drinking with strangers is completely right. I agree that women should not be put in that position but its a fact of life, not sexism or anything else. Men will be predators, the same with children not taking lollipops or lifts off strangers, its about awareness so evil wotn have their victim and i understand there are hundreds of permutations – a girl could meet prince charming and he could commit rape, theres no right way PC way to approach the subject and i would think Hook was in his “way” just making a statement about awareness.
@Stevie Doran: and would it be ok to say that a child that gets abused after they took the lollipop was in some way responsible for the assault? I would hope not.. The same applies to a woman who has been raped.
There seems to be a huge proportion of posters of comments not necessarily agreeing with Hooky but admitting that his comments aren’t outlandish and we need to take personal responsibility for the situations we place ourselves in. Then why don’t ye make yer
I believe there is some basis to what he is saying. I remember a story a few years back where a woman was assaulted at 5am in the morning in Tallaght. All the do gooders were on here saying that she should be able to walk anywhere at anytime on her own and not get assaulted. That’s true but that is not the world we live in. We know what is possible to happen so personal responsibility is needed so you do not put yourself in a position that you know could turn bad.
@Seamus Ryan: You do realise you’re saying that you believe that that woman was in someway personally responsible for her own rape?
@Lucy: no I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying that if anybody(male or female) puts themselves in a situation e.g. a bad area, so drunk you cannot function etc then you have to be in some way responsible for what happens to yourself. This is not a perfect world and there are bad people out there.
In a perfect world women or men for that matter should be able to get drunk, wear what they want, without getting raped, but we don’t live in a perfect world!
If a person walks down a street in a dodgy area openly displaying a wallet full of banknotes, then they know full well they are taking a risk! Same applies to tempting would be rapists, muggers etc, we need to assess the risks before we venture into that area of risk.
@Padraig Moc Ambrois: women then should not drink alcohol in public, should cover all over in concealing clothing, and not entice these out of control Irish men who can’t control themselves. Reminds me of something.
Just don’t listen to News talk turn on another channel.
All women have the right to go out and enjoy themselves without the fear of being raped. But this is the REAL world and no amount of changing criminal behaviour is going to matter. Because life is what it is murderers, theives and rapists. And have been since the dawn of time. we don’t go out and leave our houses unlocked, cause event though we know no one should rob out house, possibly someone will, so we lock our house. I know not a very good comparison, but the thinking is the same. We take responsiblity for our homes and possesions, why should we not take responsiblity for ourselves? When I go out I have a responsiblity for myself to make sure i do not put myself into dangerous situations. My mother would warn me back in the 1980s when i was heading out “dont leave youself vunerable and be safe”. What i am trying to say is that yes we must take personal responsiblity for ourselves. No amount of “what should happen” is goin to change “what can happen”. Life is what it is.
I used to like to listen to George Hook, loving the grumpy old man persona and contrarian viewpoints that didn’t always match my own. However in the last few weeks , George has
1. Scaremongered about vaccines
2. Victim blamed a rape survivor
3. Promoted a quack health clinic that thinks it can “cure” autism by administering caustic bleach enemas to children.
It’s ok to have an alternative viewpoint but should we really be giving a platform to people who endanger people?
@Ken Mitchell: George panders to the lowest common denominator of prejudice and irrationality.
He heard that no one fails by underestimating the sense and taste of the public, including the Irish public.
I don’t particularly like the man but in fairness he actually did not agree or condone the rape of that girl in any way! He condemned it and said the man should be jailed! He went on to say what to me is common sense as a woman and having 2 daughters and as a sensible human being! Be aware of yourself at all times! Mind yourself! We all know what goes on in the world rightly or wrongly, so we should make our safety top priority at all times. Whether male or female! And not just safety against sexual assault. In all aspects of life. crossing the road, driving your car, riding a bike, going for a drink. Especially if out with people you don’t know very well, your more vulnerable so try be extra cautious and I honestly think that is what he was trying to say. He wasn’t saying she deserved it
@Catherine: no one said that he said she deserved it.. He said she bares some responsibility because apparently her sleeping with another guy she barely knew means she is telling all guys they can have sex with her… I dont see him saying the same applies to the guy. Funny that. No one, absolutely no one is responsible for a rapists actions except a rapist.
If a man gets robbed walking through a relatively dodgy area I wonder if Georgie Boy would go on the radio and tell him it was terrible but he only had himself to blame for walking there.
@Sandra Duffy: George could single handedly take on 20 gurriers in their 20s and see them off. George is invincible. George is Rambo and McGregor rolled up in one.
In reality he is a sad old man trying desperately to hand on to a tired out media career of pretend punditry.
That said, George has great appeal to men over 65 who still want to talk about their youthful exploits as brilliant rugby players and who detest with a slavering hatred the lefties, libtards, SJWs, feminists, social reformers and do gooders.
George is a living fossil.
@Fiona deFreyne: Interesting display of ageist hate there.
@: I know men in their 80swho are younger in outlook, more progressive and enlightened than the prematurely fossilised George and his supporters.
@: only at the prematurely aged. I know men in their 80s who are younger in outlook, more progressive, more enlightened and are far more up to date with the changing mores in Irish society that Dinosaur George.
Didn’t listen to the show and only read what’s on here but all I see the man saying is to use bit of cop on when dealing with strangers. How does that make him a fascist and wrong? In no way am I blaming the victim/s, but would it be a good idea to go and feed the lions in hope they’ll behave the way I hope they would? Not the best analogy perhaps but get on with it
@Patrick Cat #2: you missed his abject and unqualified apology.
Even Hook knows he was wrong.
It leaves the misogynists on here isolated and exposed.
@Fiona deFreyne: I think he’s apologizing for causing such controversy. I don’t believe he himself thinks he has said anything wrong, but that’s only my own opinion.
@Patrick Cat #2: when you use the analogy of the líon you are basically saying that men cannot be trusted.. That they only work on instincts or something. That women should trust no man but cause let’s face it, one if them could be a rapist. There are a lot of men on here morning, noon and night crying “not all men”. Which is it?
George could have constructed the piece differently and in hindsight I’m sure he would but the man is not a victim blaming defender of rapists which some people seem to think, or want others to think.
One man’s comments on radio will not create a rape culture. Some commentators are scared to even mention the word. I do agree with the comment that it may prevent some people, male and female, from reporting a rape bit probably now more so because of the massive attention brought George Hooks piece.
That said, I don’t think all the great work being done by all involved in the support and awareness groups on a daily basis will be in any way undermined by George Hook
@Ding Ding Denny: Gerirge Hook judges all Irishmen by reference to his own personal standards. He looked into his own heart.
The reality is that the vast majority of Irishmen are far better and more enlightened than George Hook. His time has come and gone.
No means no.
Personal responsibility has to cut both ways equally for both men and women. Taking advantage of a woman in a vulnerable position says a lot about the perpetrators character and they deserve everything that is thrown their way.
He’s kind of asking for a right Hook with that massively punchable face and his hideous views. I don’t condone physical violence towards bellends, but they need to take some personal responsibility for their actions.
@Fifty Shades of Sé: yes, interesting perspective.
Hook might be considered to be asking for it although we could not condone Hook getting it.
Shock jock George rides again.
Irish don’t take personal responsibility for themself today, its everyones else fault.
I want a house some cash in my pocket and a nice holiday, but I want it for free….
Modern Ireland.
Think George is still wishing it was the 1950s. Anyone is entitled to have sex with another adult as long as it’s consensual and none of us are in a position to pass judgement on them. When it is not consensual then it is rape and the perpetrator needs to go to jail. Very simple really.
@Mick Murphy: I thought 19th century, around 1850, but you may be more accurate.
@Mick Murphy: that’s it in a nutshell. .great comment, well said !
@Suzie Sunshine: Thanks Suzie…. I must say I am a bit shocked at some of the comments on this thread. No-one is actually coming out and condoning rape but they are slightly pushing some blame onto the victim which will make future victims less likely to report the crime. Attitudes like this are more dangerous than they probably realize commenting on the internet. I have met a lot of rape victims through work and it really is one of the most heinous crimes possible. People rarely ever fully recover. I sincerely hope George retracts or clarifies his statement to point out that the victim is always just that. A victim.
@Mick Murphy: reading the comments on here today was certainly an eye opener . No responsibility or blame should be put on a woman who has been raped but three quarters of the commenters on here think otherwise . Shocking really . At least Hook has apologised now .. it says a lot about him though ..
Actually think he makes somewhat of a good point. Maybe phrased badly but as adults in a truly equal society one must accept a fair portion of responsibility for ones actions while knowing that sexual predators exist and hence going home with a stranger or group of has an inherent risk. This is just logical, sensible. I think that was his point. I don’t believe that he’s implying it’s plainly her fault for getting raped…the mob are foolish, but the mob rules Rome
@Alfie Munro: no he doesn’t.. He commented on her sleeping with someone she barely knew and then went on to say she bore some of the Responsibility for her rape. Do you see anything wrong with that thinking?? Not in the least bit double standard?? But apart from anything else, it is one thing to say that women may want to be more wary of situations like this, as it leaves them in vulnerable situations, but it’s quite another to say she bares any of the responsibility for someone raping her.
Also the amount of times we have to put up with the “not all menzz” brigade when it comes to rape, yet it’s the very same ones saying we should be wary of all men. Which is it?? Are we to suspect all of you are rapists and keep a wide berth or hope that society realises that rapists are the only people responsible for rape and stop trying to blame girls?
There’s two sides to this sorry for all the pc nuts but it’s simple. We don’t live in a perfect world and the fact is women should not put themselves in a vulnerable position by drinking too much and men need to be educated better should be done while boys are in school. Let’s face it we can all pace ourselves when we go out we all need to be responsible for ourselves and our behavior while also watching out for others.
He is right
Anyone who feels George Hook has done nothing wrong should give him support and makesure he does not give a useless apology and fall like Kevin Myers did because thats what this Vultures want
@Paul Byrne: Ooops, too late. Snowflake George has capitulated. Sad.
Of course it wouldn’t be Chris himself because he’s too much of a wuss
Hey George
Don’t pander to PC brigade/ Mary Robinson ass kissers.
People living in Ireland now have turned into a shower or cranks..
Thanks to social media and smart phones…
@mr non snowflake: Too late. He’s pandered all over himself, making quite a pathetic mess!
I really couldn’t see what was wrong about what George said. He condemned the rapists in the strongest possible terms. He finished by saying the girl should have been more responsible – basically asking why is it that some girls can come home safely without getting shitfaced, while others get very drunk and go home with total strangers. Why are they not more responsible – it’s a pertinent question.
Prevention is better than cure.
Time for this idiot to retire.
@Reg:
Aside from this obvious blunder he is a very good presenter. Extremely knowledgeable on American politics. One of the few Irish pundits to predict a Donald Trump victory.
@Emmet Dillane: A stopped clock is correct twice a day.
@Reg: and let me guess, if he doesn’t retire he should be forcibly removed. All the little fascists are out this morning.
@Reg: a working clock set to the wrong time is wrong all day.
Hook is actually correct.
A woman must look after herself and not put herself into a position where she could be in danger.
That doesn’t excuse the rapist from the deed either.
It’s just what girls were taught years ago to keep themselves safe before this looney liberal left mentality came along.
If everyone in the country obeyed the law then we wouldn’t need gardai or the courts system.
Why do liberals think that just because rape shouldn’t happen that they can do whatever they want without any consideration for their personal safety?
@Donna Clarke:
@Emmet Dillane: George may be knowledgeable but certainly not with common sense issue’s He is a mouth piece and get away with statements surrounding his life as a gay man with no interruptions when he opens his mouth on other issue’s as seen here he gets it so wrong he is a mouth piece for the gutter press.. He will have to apologise and hope people will forget.
Apologies if I am mixing him up with another person.
The considered and reasoned tone of Hook’s comments indicates that he has thought about the matter before coming to his opinions. Therefore his apologies are without any merit or value.
This articles has been useful in confirming the identities of the real misogynists on The Journal.ie.
@Fiona deFreyne: Come on Fiona, let’s name and shame! You be the judge. Am I a misogynist also.?
Or is it all men who don’t tow the femininazi line? Come please tell me, you made the statement….
You posted some great comments recently on the homeless situation but your man hating rhetoric today is truly disappointing
@Fiona deFreyne:
God help us if you are a representative of what’s out there, would you ever piss off.
If it’s done anything it’s raised awareness. And will get potential victims to think before putting themselves in danger.
@Paul: How about getting potential rapists not to rape?
@DaisyChainsaw: im guessing your a Female and if im correct i have to say by reading your comments you are a voice of reason for Women more than all of these Radical Feminazi’s on here
@DaisyChainsaw: suggestions?
@Paul: If you don’t know how not to rape, there’s no point in me telling you.
@Paul: that comment stinks of victim blaming ..
When I went out, years ago, there were no mobile phones. There was however a ‘pact’ or agreement that we all went out together and home together. We would never leave a friend stranded. We always looked out for each other. It’s called friendship. Unfortunately, there are predators and many of them.
Can we all just agree its time for him to be taken off the airways.
@Micheál De Bhaldraithe: No, why should we? So we only allow the same viewpoint in public, viewpoints that make it very difficulty for people to somehow find offence in no matter how hard they try. And I’m not just talking about Hook, it’s happening all over the media for a while now.
For people who find these latest comments by George Hook objectional – as well as leaving comments here and clicking ‘thumbs’ – consider going another step forward and lodging an official complaint to Newstalk and the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. I will be. I’ve previously lodged a complaint against him regarding his stance on Gardasil (which wasn’t upheld) and I feel that the more people who lodge official complaints will have a greater cumulative effect.
Email the station:
complaints@newstalk.com, highnoon@newstalk.com
http://www.newstalk.com/content/001/downloads/ntcomplaintsform.pdf
Make a complaint to the BAI:
http://www.bai.ie/en/viewers-listeners/complaints/
It won’t take you more than 20 minutes to complete these forms and send them off.
For anyone who remains confused or ambiguous around the issue of consent, take a look at this three-minute clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8
@Donagh Ward:
Imagine lodging a complaint because you don’t like what someone says.
@Donagh Ward: well done.
The fact that Hook has unreservedly apologised has confirmed the validity of your complaint.
Would it not to be wise to wait for the conclusion of this trial before anyone, especially Mr Hook, starts to make judgments?
With “friends” like George, women certainly need no enemies.
And up go George’s ratings. Job done.
The ranter declares his “relevance” .
Well he’s apologised so obviously he recognises what he said was wrong.. bit of a kick in the teeth to all those defending his comments here though… because his apology means he thinks they’re wrong too…
Hopefully this finishes him off. What a year that’d be. Getting rid of Hook and Myarse both.
George is old school, sadly society has passed him by.
When I hear him on the radio I think I hear my father speaking.
George is stuck in the middle of the 1950′s
Lately George tried to be a bit of a shock jock, attention seeking
using melodramatic exaggeration for some of the listening audience
to find offensive. This is the time I switch to another station.
Georges Hook is trying to enrage you, and you’re all falling for it.
@Neal Ireland Hello.: he might as well use the left’s constant search for things to be outraged about to his advantage. It’s what Trump did and keeps doing.
Jesus Christ is no one in this country able to stick to there guns against the easily offended and the political correct
George. I didn’t think you’d be subdued by the new self righteous PC liberals. They are the latest version of media led fascism!
@Randal McNally: its a sad state of affairs when you can not even give an opinion, i feel alot of people are being silent because of exactly what has happened to Hook and Myers, its dangerous times we are living in
@Randal McNally: yes, but do remember the subject is rape, he will offend a great many who choose not to see some of his wiser points
Seeing the anti-woman, pro-people-like-George-Hook brigade who comment on these types of articles with sticky fingers in their lonely, darkened bedrooms far too often make me want to claw my own eyes out.
@Amanda Keane: Whats wrong with lonely people with their sticky fingers in darkened rooms, why didnt you just use your Messiah Hillary Clintons word (Deplorables) that would of been better.
And who are to judge your just a Feminazi
@Amanda Keane: For someone who called the McGregor/ Mayweather fight a display of glorified toxic masculinity I think just looking at a man would make you want to claw your eyes out.
@Amanda Keane: Lol, go ahead, let us know how that went. Drama queen!!!!
@Amanda Keane: They’re big men online but just like Georgie boy they’re absolutely terrified of women…. stereotypical losers playing the “big I am”…
When I went out, years ago, there were no mobile phones. There was however a ‘pact’ or agreement that we all went out together and home together. We would never leave a friend stranded. We always looked out for each other. It’s called friendship. Unfortunately, there are predators and many of them.
Facist politically correct attack on a valid observation , hook said nothing wrong
@Jim Dunne: Why did he apologise then?
Donoghue is such an ass licking bore on the radio. Hook is good at getting a bit of controversy going. Maybe the difference between slut and stud are at the heart of this. I couldn’t be bothered reading the article
@lavbeer: yeah, there is more than a bit of the sleazy old slut about George. He is still parading his tired old wares in an increasingly desperate attempt to attract ratings and the appearance of relevance.
@Fiona deFreyne: and here we are discussing him. It’s working. I might read what this is about later but I would need a beer first.
@lavbeer: bots can drink ? Cool…
@lavbeer: I agree re Donaghue a brutal presenter, as for Hook !! what a crap station
@Suzie Sunshine: No idea what you are on about. Anyway I read what Hook said – he’s not all wrong imho of course.
@lavbeer: no surprises there.
@lavbeer: it was in reference to Tony calling you a “bot ” yesterday …..
This is at least the second time hook has insulted and denigrated women in this way in the past few years. His true colours are coming through his carefully crafted public image of a “mans man” rugby, testosterone, etc. The guy is an anti-feminist chauvinist. His apology is just a meaningless exercise in attempting to limit the damage to his reputation and that of his employer. To me his apology is hollow and insincere. MO.
Ahh George what did you apoligise for, of all the People i taught you would have been stronger, i had to say it but the Hook has just became a Cuck
@Paul Byrne: I was so disappointed to read that. He has apologised for telling the truth the way he saw it. Not good.
@Edward O Hare: the truth the way he saw it is victim blaming and is something that never should be encouraged. Either he believes that all men should not be trusted when there is a woman in their company (which doesn’t paint men in a great light if we are thinking you are all potential rapists) or he believes that women who are sexually active are giving permission to every man to have sex with them when they chose to have sex with anyone, either way he is being a rape apologist, lke a load of his fans commenting on here.
@Edward O Hare: i know what ye mean pal, my heart gave in when he did
@Paul Byrne: Sad little man folds like a clothes horse when he’s called out… Gentlemen…. I give you your hero George Hook…
@Lucy: he is not my hero, my hero is Hitler( thats a joke) i am right wing do
The funny thing is if the guy that raped her had been a Muslim or a refugee you commentators blaming women would have the complete opposite opinion!
@Deborah Behan: What? Most Muslims don’t drink and wouldn’t be on national radio defending their right to go out boozing because women are fair game. We don’t know who the rapist is, that isn’t the issue, it’s Hook’s attitude that he’s free to walk the streets but younger women shouldn’t, according to him.
George Hook gives the 19th century a bad name. Not all people thought like him.
George wants to ban alcohol for women, put women in all over body concealing and protect women from men like George.
Hook is now an irrelevant (and irreverent) shock jock, and his comments are beneath contempt, however there is a recent ruling that could mean that all drunken sex is rape. If this is true, then there are thousands upon thousands of our young people guilty of the second most serious crime on our statute books.
Hook was right . If you have ever worked in hotels , this sort of carry on was rampant .Both parties acting irresponsibility. It’s as much her fault as the fellas who want back to the hotel with her . Problem is here , if a woman said what hook said the rad feminists would have said nothing .
Disgusting remarks. The focus should never be on the naive to adjust their behaviour to accommodate evil in our society.
@Rochelle: true but, in George Hook’s case, he judges all men by reference to his own personal standards.
Fact is there are predatorial males out there seeking or taking opportunities to rape girls/ women. What George said about personal responsibility did not imply ‘asking for it’. I understood he wants girls to be aware of dangers, very real dangers, including unknown sexual health issues, history of sexual assault or rape. Presumably the first encounter was consensual, followed by degradation committed by others. Did the first encounter premeditate this shocking turn of events? There is nothing wrong with girls taking good care of themselves, if taking responsibility for oneself causes such outrage then what can be said…it does not mean the victim was responsible for what was done to her. Male rapists should be jailed. What we read about here is not childhood incest nor is it someone walking along the street and being grabbed, threatened injured and raped.rape is rape of course, in the latter cases a child can’t resist a brutal father figure.
In the other there are no chances to weigh up the situation. Meeting a man in a social setting can present an opportunity to exercise choice, of a kind. Getting drunk is also a choice. It is not however a charter for rapists. Good parenting implies raiding decent boys. But even that does not guarantee that these sons won’t turn out to be rapists.
I think the times are finally catching up with our old school journalists. Kevin Myres and now George Hook. I accept they feel they have to air their views based on their hey days and thats why they think and speak this way, but they’re completely out of touch and need to be rooted out and replaced because their hey days have no place in modern society. They only backtrack when they realise their careers are on the line. Token apology and not good enough. Get rid!
If a man or a woman is a victim of a crime and if the crime is rape it simply means that no consent was given. A rapist is a criminal and should face the full rigours of the law for this despicable act. A decent person will not take advantage of another person just because they are drunk. A decent person would try and help the person to get home safely.
Why does George Hook always sound like he is straining at stool?
@Fiona deFreyne: lavatorial wit doesn’t change anything
Oh my god this comment section is such a cesspit. Victim blaming is disgusting
@Fox: and what it says about some men is truly chilling.
It seems that Hook’s expectation is that Western women and girls should behave like those of more religiously dogmatic faiths.
How easily these sad men crumble. An apology rushed out with indecent haste and no balls or courage to stand over what he said. Were the sponsors getting antsy? Deeply held beliefs aren’t all that deep when the money might be in danger!
Pathetic!
@Gearoid O’Helidhe: Sad men like Hook and his supporters. Such a pathetic little snowflake that the second he’s told to apologise, he does. No courage of his convictions, no standing over his words and no spine by the looks of it. His boss makes him issue an apology and he does. What kind of man capitulates the second he’s challenged by his superiors?
@Gearoid O’Helidhe: Then tell your brothers, husbands, fathers, boyfriends etc not to rape.
@Gearoid O’Helidhe: why not tell men not to rape ..
@DaisyChainsaw: everyone (men and women) knows that rape is not acceptable.
Its unfortunate but there are a small minority of nasty people out there who will rape someone anyhow.
Its the same for all crimes unfortunately.
And before you accuse me I am not victim blaming anyone. If this girl was raped, it was in no way her fault.
Anyone guilty of these crimes should be punished properly.
Think because it’s george hook it’s blown out of proportion. He says he’s against rape all he was saying was about people putting themselves in stupid situations which they have to take some form of responsibility for.
@tomas o beag: yes, that’s right..but are responsible for the despicable acts against them
I think everyone should stop with the whole if she wasn’t wearing that, out late ,talking to a man,drinking then she wouldn’t have got raped. No means no and if she’s passed out or to drunk to say no and he goes ahead or he just doesn’t listen it’s rape.
“The real issue .. the personal responsibility young girls are taking for their own safety ”
A guy and a girl are out on a night, they meet, like each other and decide to have sex. One of them gets up and leaves and a stranger comes in and rapes the other. The real issue is that a rape occurred. If the guy had been raped GH would never have made those comments. Podcasting all the way for me – sick of Menstalk and very concerned to see comments here approving this attitude.
All these f..king libs on here trying shut down any opinions that are outside there tiny minded way of thinking, is starting to spread like a virus. We need to find a vaccine fast .
God help the rest of us please.
@mr non snowflake: Hey guess what sweetie…. you lost any basis for an argument the second Hook apologised… Must feel terrible to be put back in your box yet again… you sad, pathetic, loser.
@Lucy: Whoa Lucy, we’re only having a discussion. All the man said was free speech is important to retain even if some get upset
George Hook is an imbecilic dinosaur. I stopped listening to his nasal ramblings years ago.
It seems to me from all these comments, that people think, if you stay at home and cover yourself from head to toe then that’s how you will never ever get raped. Anything outside of that then you’re just risking too much and enticing the wrong sort of person. If you have to go outside only do so at daytime with crowds of people and cover up. If you are naturally curvy you better just wear a black bag… To be safe of course.
I honestly can’t believe so many people still don’t get the idea of bodily autonomy for women or men. A person can hang themselves upside down naked on monkey bars, drunk off their arse, in a busy town square. It doesn’t give anyone any semblance of an invitation to touch them in any way without permission. Only the rapist is responsible for the rape.
@Carol Oates: the unfortunate thing there is that there are men who for their own sick reasons see such circus acts as an invitation to spoil. Such men exist, that is a fact of life and we have to protect ourselves against them
@Carol Oates: what would you say about someone who stuck their arm into a lion’s cage? That the lion had no right to infringe upon her bodily integrity? Can we all just live in the real world please instead of a utopian moral fantasy where nobody has to worry about bad people doing bad things? The woman who did what you describe would be an idiot but she could at least by your reckoning take some comfort in the fact that she had borne not responsibility for her rape.
@Squarepeg01: Ah so men are like animals beholden to their instincts… you’re an idiot..
@Squarepeg01: My disabled son was verbally abused by a group of teens at our garden gate after coming home from a walk last week. By the same logic lots of people here are using, he is personally responsible for the disgusting verbal assault because he was outside living his life. According to the same logic, teens are just gross and can’t help themselves, so it’s partly my son’s fault for putting himself in that situation. Or by Hook’s logic, I failed at a parent somehow for not teaching him better how to protect himself. It’s bull. The only ones responsible are the thugs who abused him and the only parent sharing responsibility is theirs. Victim blaming is victim blaming regardless of the situation and it’s wrong.
There are still some people who think that it is ok to take advantage of a girl in a vulnerable situation. These attitudes need to be roundly condemned and challenged. In a conversation I had many years ago with a retired psychiatrist he informed me that he had discussed the rape of young women while they were drunk with a Garda Superintendent and they both agreed that if the girl was drunk what else would she expect to happen as she had put herself in that position. Needless to say I was astounded.
As bad as his comments are about women what he is saying in essence about men is really much worse. What he is saying that women need to assume that ALL men are potiential rapists in order to protect themselves from rape. He is saying that given an opportunity to rape that men will do it cos “men are men” and that this is what all women must assume. This is pretty disgusting. None of the men in my life would ever rape someone. None of my male friends would ever rape someone . I can’t understand why men aren’t shouting out about this. Do all you men like being thought of as potiential rapists ??? Hook has it all wrong in every level
@Catherine Sims: Sure we’re the worst beings on the planet, unable to complain in fear of offending someone with all our white male privileges.
@Catherine Sims: I see you point but we all know he did not infer that, no more did he infer that women are at fault for being raped. He made a point in his usual bull in a china shop manner like he does with most topics and its come back to bite him. I truly don’t think he meant any harm.
For instance,his stance on cyclists makes my blood boil but I just ignore him as a saddo for having those views.
@Bat Daly: with media power comes responsibility though. ironic isn’t it when he is talking about responsibility lol still he was made apologise so I suppose he had to take responsibility in the end.
Hook is a buffone. Ive stoped listening to newstalk because of this ignorant man. Im not an easily “offended” person, but his rudeness to guests, derogative comments on others religions/ way of life and his higher than thou attitude because he lives in leafy f*cking foxrock I find abhorrent. I don’t understand why newstalk keep him in a job!
@White Wookie Kiki: that’s your opinion…and you know what they say about opinions….
@White Wookie Kiki:
Because he’s popular, has high listenership numbers and as such generates a lot of revenue for the station.
It is a business after all.
@White Wookie Kiki: yes and he’s gotten worse in recent years with his religious revival. Strange how much more obnoxious people get the more religious they become. I rarely listen to Newstalk anymore either. There’s enough seepage onto social media from US alt right cult broadcasters without going looking for it at home.
@Emmet Dillane: My thoughts too. Plus why is it so not ok to be wrong or have different options these days? Isn’t that free speech? Why is the world striving for everyone to agree on everything? Discussions can’t be had any longer without someone shouting fascist or forbidding uncomfortable speech.
What are people doing listening to this washed up, so past his sell by date, in the first place? DON’T LISTEN TO HIM. That is the best way to voice your disgust.
@Grainne Kelly: You’re so right. Hook is an anachronistic dinosaur. It’s hard to believe we are giving so much oxygen to his self indulgent stupid rants. People should ignore him.
Oscar Wilde had his type in mind when he said : ” The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about.
@Grainne Kelly: ok ok..washed up etc.. but read him again and see that in some respects he is advocating personal care, how can any girl know if the man she meets and leaves with does or doesn’t have an STD, including the more serious ones? Is it not a choice to drink too much? So that good care cannot be taken, so one becomes vulnerable. You may not like it but there are some pretty bad guys out there and we girls and women have to be on our guard. Idealism won’t protect us..No No No men should not rape or sexually assault us. So stop reading shit into everything George wrote, I don’t give a monkey’s about him, but he is right about a few things
It is good that no one should take some personal responsibility for their own safety, that is what I have learned from today with the outrage.
The real issue is rapists and those who commit sexual assault don’t get long enough in jail.
Hook is a bit like Trump – spews out stuff off the top of his head without thinking. This is not to excuse him. He will not change. He likes controversy once he is at the centre of it and even if its negative attention he is delighted. Its pure egotism just like Trump whom he admires. We are probably giving him oxygen by responding to his crassness. I think a better response is not to listen to his programme in future. That’s what I will do.
Seems like an old fashioned witch hunt….I am sure Chris Donoghue would love to burn him at the stake outside Newstalk towers….Old George will soon go the way of Kevin Myers….Just one more slip up and the torches are ready….
How is he still on Newstalk. A few weeks ago he said ban Islam and there will be no terrorism.
He constantly defends Trump and Trumps racist remarks. He criticised Obama (a black president) for coming out against Trump shutting down the dreamer programme. He ignored president Clinton (White president) when he also came out against Trump on the dreamer programme.
What are Newstalk doing giving this man air time with his hateful racist comments
@Barry C Mc Govern: So critizing a black person is racist???. Give your head a wobble and come back to reality.
@Dj: Nice
@Gearoid O’Helidhe: I wonder how he’ll fair when those who forced his mealy mouthed apology target his advertisers and put him out of a job…
@Gear O’Helidhe: I don’t hate him.. I pity him for having so many idiots defending him. Apparently his apology hasn’t sent the message to his supporters that his comments were unacceptable which leaves only one other option and that’s his resignation….
@Barry C Mc Govern: would you just prefer a totally politically correct , sanitised media , full of snowflakes that never say anything controversial , never take an opposing view , never question the sheep mentality , never adopt opposing positions for the sake of fuelling debate , if you just keep calling for presenters to be not allowed on radio just because they fuel their shows with debate and adversary and topics that are not just the polished PR PC announcements then thats what you will end up with. If you don’t like to listen to his show don’t listen , there are plenty of alternatives – especially ones that never ‘defend trump’ or are ‘ critical of Obama’ – you do realise people are allowed to having opposing views to yours don’t you ??
Maybe you’s should all take responsibility and teach all your daughter self defence because rapist gonna rape. Or is that too much of a masculine thing to get a girl to do.
Hook is just a hard right pr**k. It’s opinions like this that made me stop listening to him!
@oliverjumelle: there is nothing Wrong in having a hard Right ……. oh wait i read ur comment wrong
Don’t mind the PC brigade George your dead right about personal responsibility keep doing what your doing you legend
@Bernie Cuddihy: and Hook has unreservedly apologised for his indefensible remarks,
Hook has apologised, now accepting that he is totally wrong, leaving his victim blaming supporters high and dry.
So Chris represents the voice of NewsTalk? An insipid individual who has shown his backbiting cowardice by his cynical betrayal of his colleague. Wonder doe’s his recent demotion have anything to do with it? George only spoke sense. The baying PC mob see an opportunity to destroy yet another ‘ heretic’. If this is allowed to carry on to it’s natural conclusion, the bayers will be bayed at themselves.
Then again, going cynical, Johnny Rotten said at the death of the Sex Pistols in San Francisco.
‘Do you ever feel you’ve been had?
Hook always a clown his mouth and brain are not in sync
@Derek Teeling: yes, I suppose you could loosely call the organ inside Hook’s skull a brain.
All George is trying to get across is for women to be more vigilant to the possibility of rape happening if there in a drunken state. He then comments on how to stop it like parenting. Seriously people would want to get a grip if they think he’s saying rape is acceptable.
@Aidan: Do you like to go out and get drunk for fun? If not do you see that we live in a society that values getting pissed and thinking it is fun. Anyone that doesn’t want to do it is ostracised. So Males in your opinion can do that without worry but girls probably never should, despite the kind of society we live in. Women are very vigilant to the possibility of rape though… and it sucks, everywhere you go you have to be on guard most of the time. The thing is sometimes no matter what you do it’s not enough, you could be totally minding your own business in broad daylight and it still could happen. You could be out trying to enjoy your life and your soft drink gets spiked. The problem is there is always some excuse as to why it was the girls fault and the emphasis is always put on her. I think the only way out of this is to hopefully not be born a girl. That would only minimise things as boys and men can still be raped.
There are bad people out there. There are bad men out there who want to violently beat and rape other women and men as well. I am not talking about one of these rape cases where a man and woman have drunk too much, and the man tries it on with the woman, and she says no and then he keeps pestering until she says yes. I am talking about evil men who want to violently assault and rape other women and men.
What do they look for these types of psychopaths? They look for opportunity. Ted Bundy who was a serial rapist and murderer used look for this opportunity. He would target women who he thought he could trick into going off with him and then he would butcher them. What did Ted Bundy look for? What did Larry Murphy look for? Opportunity.
So if you are male or female, lying passed out drunk on the street, you are increasing the chance of one of these opportunistic violent rapists doing something bad to you. That is all George Hook is talking about. Having personal responsibility and not getting pissed drunk, because bad things happen to you when you do. It applies to male and female alike: getting drunk is a bad idea.
He condemned rape and rapists without question. All he was saying is people need to look after themselves more. Yes you can comment on here and say that he should be telling people not to rape but in the real world there’s horrible $cumbags out there. It’s no different to me getting blind drunk, walking home, getting lost in a bad neighbourhood, and getting stabbed or robbed. Yes it’s not my fault that that happened but almost everyone here would agree that I should have looked after my safety more.
@sVRCsaSg: The point we are trying to make is YOu could be as careful as humanly possible and still get raped. The problem is a society that automatically thinks the person getting raped could have done more to stop it. There always seems to be a lot of leeway for the rapist and the victim gets treated like they committed a crime. Why is it okay for people to think that? just because it involves sex? If it was any other crime you would have so much more sympathy. Why does your sympathy stop at rape?
The reason people get so annoyed about these kind comments is that women and men should be able to go out and get as drunk as they please, wearing whatever they want, without the fear of getting raped.
Comments as such, are the equivalent of telling us we should have to walk around in armour and with weapons to protect ourselves from terrorists. Wherein truth, we shouldn’t have to change the way we live to protect ourselves from criminality.
Unfortunately donoghue has never had a pair of powder kegs between his legs and will never know what its like to have strong urges to copulate with young flirtatious accessible women. Hook still speaking from reality, donoghue still scoring brownie points.
@Zx5vZulB: so men have no control over themselves? Nice bit of rape apology there. Well done.
You are SAD PATHETIC LOSER Sir.
How dare you??
Take your fake apology and STICK IT.
We are living in a crises of a society here.
Men go through sexual abuse too.
Looking AT your picture I’m questioning your MOTIVES and your Fake Apology.
The DAMAGE is done to this young LADY and you have raped her AGAIN verbally.
Who the *UCK do you think you are??
Nobody reads RAGS anymore. Smile.
I’m boycotting your crappy newspaper.
I don’t know how you are going to sleep well tonight Mr Hook. Interesting Surname.
I don’t like your picture.
It STINKS.
Do you believe in God Mr Hook?
I prefer to call him the Creator. He’s Deadly! :)
You are NO man. You are the filth that I scraped off my boots today after I took a short WALK. (To the shop)
You think I’m angry? Nope. It comes as fast as it GOES.
BIG SMILE.
Nobody wants to hear what you think about. Let’s see….. ICK! ooooooooo you *ucked up BIG STYLE ZOMBIE.
Ice cold. :)
Have a good night. I hope you sleep quite well Mr Hook. ;)
@Fern Moran: Triggered
@Paul Byrne: Oh look … another dickless wonder.
@Lucy: ahh dont call me that i might get offended and change my gender so i can join you and your Feminazi’s
@Paul Byrne: Change your gender from what because you’re certainly not a man… I mean come on… you feel the need to point out that a woman might be upset by ignorant comments about rape? You’re nothing but a fu#king loser pretending to be a man… People like you are clown shoes in the real world…
@Lucy: I believe Paul is what is now commonly referred to as a broflake.
@Gearoid O’Helidhe: Hey… you’ve dedicated an entire Saturday telling women that they shouldn’t be upset by ignorant comments on sexual assault despite the man who made them apologising… You’re obviously not in the best place in your life so I’ll give you a break. At least I’ve the excuse of being in transit for the last 18 hours…What’s yours ? … You know what… never mind… I don’t need the depressing details of your sad little life…
@Lucy: Lucy i have some Pills the Doctor gave me, they help people that have a dose of the Shits, they might help you because their is plenty of it coming out of your mouth
@Paul Byrne: Honestly you should take a fist full and wash them down with a bottle of vodka… Bottom line is that Hook apologised and despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth here you dumb fu#ks lost the debate in the real world…
@Lucy: So what are you suggesting Lucy? You want Paul to take a fistful of pills and wash them down with a bottle of vodka? Lucky you to be able to chose which virtues you can publicly display while at the same time being intolerant of others who share a different viewpoint than yourself. Congratulations on shooting yourself in the foot :)
Empowerment is about making sure your safety, wellbeing and goals are as far under your own control as possible.
Waiting for “other people” to protect you against rape is and idiotic level of self imposed disempowerment. When someone harms you they are solely responsible for that harm, but when you refuse to protect yourself in any way you disempower yourself against harm, it doesn’t make you responsible for that harm, but it definitely risks you being harmed more often.
Your life, your choice, and I am sure the right to go home with strangers rat arsed is worth risking rape for…
Congratulations, George, you speak the truth – a thing you are not supposed to do today. What a terrible demeaning life for any girl. God Help us all!
People have been sacked for less, get rid of his, the useless shit.
have your say