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RECOVERY TEAMS EXPANDED their search in the Java Sea today as they raced to find bodies and wreckage from AirAsia Flight 8501, which authorities fear have drifted in rough weather that has hampered operations over the past week.
As the massive relief effort entered its ninth day, officials were hopeful for a break in poor conditions to send divers down to the area where large parts of the crashed Airbus A320-200 have been found.
Only 34 bodies have so far been recovered from the disaster scene and there is no sign yet of the “black box” flight data recorders, which are key to determining the cause of the incident on December 28.
A total of 162 people were on board when the plane crashed into the sea during a storm, en route from the Indonesian city of Surabaya to Singapore.
“Hopefully the weather is good today so that the ROVs (remotely-operated underwater vehicles) and other instruments can be used and our divers can go to the seabed again,” search and rescue official S.B. Supriyadi told AFP.
He said he was hopeful they would find “all the parts” of the aircraft today and get its exact coordinates underwater.
“Yesterday when our divers went down, the visibility was very bad,” Supriyadi added.
Recovery crews nonetheless made some progress on Sunday, retrieving four more bodies and locating a fifth large chunk of the plane.
The discoveries came after Indonesia’s meterological agency BMKG said that weather was the “triggering factor” of the crash with ice likely damaging the plane’s engines.
Supriyadi said the search, which is being assisted by several countries, including the United States and Russia, would expand eastwards Monday on suspicions that strong currents have caused parts of the plane to drift.
Several aircraft were making their way from Pangkalan Bun, a town on the island of Borneo with the nearest airstrip to the wreckage, to scour the sea’s surface. Speed boats were sweeping the coastline for signs of bodies that may have drifted to shore.
Indonesia’s military chief General Moeldoko said he had offered to take victims’ relatives out to the crash site to pay their respects.
“We will bring them to the navy ships and we will take them to the location to scatter flowers, and I hope coming to the location can reduce their sadness and the feeling of loss,” he told reporters.
Hope to find black boxes
Supriyadi said the search teams were assessing whether to lift the discovered plane parts off the seabed in an effort to find the flight data recorders.
“We hope to find the black boxes as soon as possible,” he said.
“If the tail is upside down and the door to the black box is in the mud, we need to dig the seafloor and that’s difficult. We are hoping the door to the black box is facing upwards so it is easier for us to fetch it.”
The report by BMKG into the likely cause of the crash referred to infra-red satellite pictures that showed the plane was passing through clouds with top temperatures of minus 80 to minus 85 degrees Celsius.
But it remained unclear why other planes on similar routes were unaffected by the weather, and other analysts said there was not enough information to explain the disaster until the flight recorders were recovered.
The operation has prioritised finding the bodies of the victims, most of whom were Indonesian. Some of the bodies have been found still strapped into their seats.
The daughter of the plane’s pilot, Captain Iriyanto, made a televised plea late Sunday urging people not to blame her father.
“He is just a victim and has not been found yet. My family is now mourning,” said Angela Anggi Ranastianis.
“As a daughter, I cannot accept it. No pilot will harm his passengers,” she told TV One.
Lost contact
In his last communication, experienced former air force pilot Iriyanto said he wanted to change course to avoid the menacing storm system. Then all contact was lost, about 40 minutes after take-off.
Many of the victims’ relatives have gathered to wait for news and prepare funerals in Surabaya, where a crisis centre has been set up for identifying bodies.
Indonesia has pledged to investigate alleged flight violations by AirAsia, saying the aircraft had been flying on an unauthorised schedule when it crashed. The airline has now been suspended from flying the Surabaya-Singapore route.
At a press conference Monday, director general of air transport Djoko Murjatmodjo was asked how the airline had flown the schedule for three months without the transport ministry’s knowledge.
“This is what we are trying to investigate: what did we miss and is the report system working properly. Hopefully we can finish this soon so we can take actions as soon as possible.” he said.
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Looks like that was no bluff
Never seen the provos bluff!
Bluffs were a common feature of the Provo campaign. Remember the grand national?
@Emeralds:
Fair play to him and SF.
Principled stance and the right action.
Think I’ve only ever praised SF on here for their stance and Marriage Equality and Immigration, but this is spot on.
And hope McGuinness makes a speedy recovery. He seems very frail.
@Emeralds: Hard to move on if we can’t put the past behind us, why don’t I reply with the 600 years we were scourged by the British? Because we have moved on!
Fair play to them, they’ve watched the DUP make a farce of the government for the past two years, between this, and money resting in the Isle of Man, etc.
Yeah, but if DUP voters were that scrupulous they’d have abandoned them years ago. This will be grist to their mill. “Themmuns are getting uppity”
You’ll see the SDLP and AAA make gains from both parties now. Brexit wont even play too much of a role, as Norn-Iron will likely benefit from Britain having to hire more public sector workers.
@Ben Coughlan: Its the false green energy that is the scam. There is nothing green about generating electricity from wood , its far more environmentally damaging than coal
How long does it take for coal to be formed again? Wood doesn’t just grow on trees.. oh wait
Those wood pellet burners are nothing short of a scam. I had one installed years ago, by a very reputable company. But after a few months I realised I was using much more wood than what was necessary for my house. The company refused to listen so I called in an independent engineer and he backed up my claim. The company had installed a unit that was too big for my house..I needed extra pellets to make sure it would stay working and as such I was wasting energy. 5 days after the report was issued the company agreed to remove the unit and gave me a full refund.
@ val Martin-give it a rest Val.
Pellets are fraught with problems
@jenni: I have got one in jenni works well for me cheaper than oil.
My Goodness McGuinness!
Its all kicking off now!! I’m going to enjoy watching this!
@Diarmuid: look it the f.g uvf monkey “we never went away”
Big diff between British people and British establishment.
Well done to him. She was just too arrogant over the whole thing. As many will know on here, I am no lover of SF but they are right on this and again McGuinness has done the right thing. He was right on Brexit and right now.
I’d say McGuinness was going to have to step down anyway due to health reasons and is just pretending to be taking a principled stand so he can have one last pop at the DUP . I suppose you can’t blame him for that . Foster deserves it .
@Diarmuid:
Blueshirt bemoaning the threat of UDA failuree?
Good always overcomes evil.
@Greg Kelly: I said in a letter published in the Irish Farmer’s Journal 2 weeks ago, there is something about green energy to drives politicians stone raving mad. Cash for ash, Drax wood burning power station, wind energy and solar generated electricity are all parts of Britain’s renewable energy plan or programme.
It is proceeding in defiance of Article 3 of the SEA Directive 2001/42/EC and the Aarhus Convention. Its illegal. So we have hear a deputy first minister resigning over the failure of the first minister to resign because she subsidized renewable energy for an illegal plan or programme pf which he and his party approve and promote North and South, Wierd
@Val Martin-as I said before Val give it a rest.
Finally! A shred of integrity shines through the whole sordid mess!
I don’t like SFs policies, I never have. I don’t think they represent me in the slightest, even though I am a strong believer in the Irish Republic. However, I have always respected Martin McGuinness. He doesn’t hide from his past, or deny it, he admits the role he played.
And his actions today have increased my respect for the man.
@Peter Mc Hugh: Fair comment….however in making his resignation it is a pity he didn’t speak for himself instead of having Gerry Adams speak for him. I don’t hold with this president of SF idea, no other party does politics this way.
@Chris Kirk: As I have said Chris, I am not a fan of SF. To each their own and all that. However, this is a brave move from McGuinness, and it is rare to see a politician make a principled stand like this.
Can I ask Peter which SF policies you disagree with exactly? Honest question. Coz it seems to me that SF have slowly moved towards the centre and that the mainstream parties such as FG and FF just pick and choose the best elements of the left to stay in power (with sneaky self serving provisos such as in housing) and cannibalise alternative political brands in this way
@Peter Mc Hugh: Indeed I have to agree with you, it always worries me when someone is too sick to carry on with their job that they don’t just stand aside and let someone else take over. Remember Brian Lenehan FF as Minister for Finance making excuses to the EU for the Irish banking crash when he should have just walked away when he was to sick to carry on.
@An_Beal_Bocht: It doesn’t matter if they are mainstream or not, after elections many become self serving and screw the electorate .
Too true Chris
McGuinness didn’t Resign as such, he was told by his SF leaders to step down. He personally would not have the say to stay or go, his Party Dictates the thought process of all members, except that of one individual.
@An_Beal_Bocht: You can ask me. I disagree with their full support of wind energy and pylons throughout the Island. Everyone knows it does not work, that there is no cost benefit analysis and it is going on in breach of the law. I have no doubt Sinn Fein is getting paid in some way, no rational person whould support transferring so much money from the poor to the rich
I agree with your sentiments on SF and would find it extremely difficult to put a tick on the ballot paper as I’m unconvinced by their piety on all matters.
On this stand alone issue they are correct the self righteous indignation of Arlene Foster is breathtaking and disingenuous but the DUPs hidden distain for the nationalist people is rarely far from their lips
I think the straw that broke the camels back was the way Foster started going on about how Sinn Fein wasn’t going to dictate to her what she did etc particularly how her family was bombed and attacked etc Given all we’ve gone through on this island, this was incredibly foolish and reckless, where was the hand of reconciliation? She completely blew it to try and hang on to power, disgusting
@James Keogh:
He stood up for civil rights and avoided the Unionist/British bullets. Now he is avoiding the Irish bullets.
I is no bigot but the MAN is a Statesman.
@Val Martin-Val for the 3rd and final time for the love and honour of God can u give it a rest!
@Val Martin: Sinn Fein don’t support wind farms and pylons as you say they do .read their policy documents
Then he should stay as a Statesman and put not only Northern Ireland but the South as well, and avoid dragging people into a senseless election which is to nobody’s benefit but a silly game of oneupmanship.
I would not belittle the Man’s
ability or integrity or what he has done in the Peace Process or his conviction to the minority in Northern Ireland. but I still believe the decision was not His,
He is a figurehead of a Party and is obliged to accept a policy and decisions of his fellow members of SF
Come back when you understand the comment and if you still have a difficulty I will S P E L L it out.
@Bennythekid: And for the 1st and final time the answer is NO. If you want censorship buy a newspaper or watch RTE.
@David Dunne: I have been through all this and they indefinably do support them . When we asked Michael Callery at a meeting in Mayo he said he would not be dictated to on wind energy. They are in government in North and show me what they have done to stop it? Missery up there, I have been asked to help. I address the N.I. energy committee, and had they listened this would not has happened.
Sinn Fein will not get away with this hypocrisy . They want the green vote and my vote, it does not work that way.
GAME ON.
Jasus Diarmuid you’re back..
Jaysus Diarmuid you’re alive, haven’t noticed ya on this in a while… ah yeah there haven’t really been any SF stories to comment on lately isn’t that it!
@Diarmuid: Nice of YFG to send along it’s representative. How is the Great Big Vulture Fund Charity Giveaway going? Anything else left that you can shift?
@Diarmuid: there you diarmuid here you missed this http://www.thejournal.ie/vulture-funds-2-3176030-Jan2017/
Sityashun.
Fair play to Mc Guinness he has done his best ,he has gone the extra mile but dealing with unionists was never going to be easy. The rich unionists never had, nor never will care about the poor unionist never mind their nationalist neighbours.
I love political debates but not with clowns
Sorry…but who is this Diarmuid you all keep talking to?
@Jonathan McKee: “surprised your account is still active”
Its a different twitter account, just the same name and profile pic.
A YFG piglet in training for the big boy troughatlon.
Resignation letter here https://soundmigration.wordpress.com/2017/01/09/martin-mcguinness-resignation-letter/
Jamming knows about using different twitter accounts
@(((Jason))): Haven’t seen the ‘jamming’ account post around here since the middle of 2015, have you?
@Paul Mc: Very true, I heard the same thing said on the Shankill Rd a couple of years ago. The Orange order rules the unionist cause and walks all over the ordinary citizen in the north.
I’m talking Diarmuid here
Brendan and the lads are back for another year.
Some people talk a lot of Diarmuid* on here. (*bullcrap)
I’m sure Arlene might have some good info on the Nama backhanders, governing the FG and DUP way. Seems neither care about the will of the people. They follow their own agenda, high on PC content. Look how that went with Trump and Brexit. I’m not sure there aren’t two more arrogant clowns than Foster and Kenny. Clueless nimwits to boot.
I always liked and admired him, a good man who devoted his life to freeing his country.
Enjoy your retirement Martin, you’ve earned it.
The wrong person has resigned.
He resigned.
@Eamon Mac Gowan: one of my earliest memories is from when I was 5 years old, a bomb going off and watching the plume of smoke rise and wondering if my parents were still alive, planted by his men… you need to find better heroes.
@Scundered: Faithfully following Arlene there, she used a version of the same old story and it made her look like she was desperate for something and it does the same to you. If you want a tit for tat then there’s people who’ll play that with you but it’s just the old and tired method of division and point scoring.
@Eamon Mac Gowan: There will be time enough to assess McGuinness’ career. The issue today is the DUP’s handling of a public scandal. And he’s done the right thing.
@Gerry Ryan deG: It’s easier to ignore the facts of who Martin is than face up to the grim truth, I will continue to speak the truth and you carry on living in denial if you prefer it that way. The only thing desperate is this instance is your attempt at keeping others from speaking the truth, Would you like to hear the whole story?
Scundered, I smell bullsh*t. Where did this bomb go off exactly? What’s this grim truth? You do realise he has never refuted that he joined up in the 70′s ya?
@An_Beal_Bocht: you think this is about him refuting being a member? This is about others glorifying someone who thinks it’s ok to take the law into his own hands and plant bombs at will in the towns and villages around the country, often killing totally innocent people and no mandate from the people to do such a thing, and consequently causing a backlash on the Irish people living all over the world… you ok with people like that as leaders?
@An_Beal_Bocht: the bomb went off at The Spinning Mill (a yarn shop) in Ballymena, early 1970′s… we watched the smoke rising in the distance from the school playground…. while the teachers rounded everyone up to come inside. And everyone was just looking at each other for answers, no mobile phones then… no way of knowing if your relatives were dead.
That sort of memory stays with you.
I knew you were bluffing. You prob grew up in Wicklow or something. Glorifying taking “Law” into their own hands, like in 1916? Who’s law exactly? What the likes of McGuinness has achieved is relative peace on this island and some form of normalisation, if there is some glorification coming his way (I don’t know that there is, more vilification in my experience) that’s maybe why he might deserve some of it
Part of a political party. .. part of a government….. no difference. By your standards who doesn’t have blood on their hands, Obama, Putin, Xi, thatcher, Holland, Blair, bush. Why are these people normalised and mcguinness is the devil.? You smack of double standards.
@An_Beal_Bocht: No I grew up in the north in various parts, living in Dublin for many years now.
Just about anyone else would be more deserving of an award, than someone who spent much of their lives supporting the bombing of others instead of living like the many thousands of others who pursued a peaceful resolution. Even George Bush would be worthier of such an award for contributions to peace, as he was at least voted into power, not a vigilante. Think about that.
What award are you talking about? I ask again, did the leaders of 1916 take the “law” into their own hands in your Dublin??
@An_Beal_Bocht: If you think that the recent struggles are anything like that of 1916 you need to read up on your history. Today it’s all about money and criminality, nothing else. Today’s members are an insult to those who gave their lives 100 years ago.
@Scundered: early 1970s bombs went off in dublin..we watched the smoke rising in the distance from the school playground…..while the teachers rounded everyone up to come inside.and everyone was just looking at each other for answers,no mobile phones then……no way of knowing if your relatives were dead.
that sort of memory stays with you.
politicans should resign when they do wrong not when another party member does wrong. If a sf member resigns after the shooting of a prison guard I’d respect them
@ Scundered I also remember my parents going protesting for basic civil rights such as 1 man 1 vote, equal access to housing and jobs etc and seeing them coming home battered and bloodied by the sectarian forces of the state, the RUC and B specials in conjunction with the orange order. That culminated in waiting as an 11 year old on road between Creggan and Bogside, praying that Id see them coming home on day of Bloody Sunday. 30 odd neighbours didnt. 14 of them never to.
Do we hold on to those days and emotions or do we like Martin Mc Guinness work towards them never being repeated, through equality and inclusiveness for all ???
2 wrongs bejasus
Scundered you’re an idiot
Scundered, you’re right. In 1916 the Irish party dominated the local councils and national politics, some of the most progressive land and housing schemes had been enacted across the country by Irish elected parliamentarians regardless of creed or religion in the previous decade, a thriving middle class was expanding in the cities. Compare that with say the bogside in 1970
Patrick mc Gough, “2 wrongs” 1 of which was posted to redicule and deflect the other to highlight that we can all do that, but Id rather use that energy to ensure those days never return to our childrens/ grandchildrens lives. Something Martin Mc Guinness has spent the past 20 odd years working towards.
@Bejasus Bejorrah: how many bombs went off in Dublin compared to the north do you think?
@M Bowe: … his actions unfortunately took the lives of many, not preserve them.
@Fergal Murray: Is that the height of your intellectual contribution to the thread?
And you’ve no such problems with what the loyalists did through the troubles or for what the British army and her agents did? How about the oppression against Catholics? That all okay for you?
@M Bowe: i posted just to show that we all have stories to tell..but we have to move on…stop the blame game and call out the trolls for the fools they are…
@Scundered: What about the 1916 -v- early 1970s ? Agree about today’s members of any para especially after GFA.
@Gerard McConnell: Thats the nail on the head Gerard, I have equally as many problems with the loyalists doing it, what on earth made you think I would agree with them?
I find all bombing abhorrent, condemn them all equally. You cant have it both ways, can’t say that one bomb is ok and another isn’t. Which is why I am bemused that some people here brought up the Dublin/Monaghan bombings, those were horrendous cowardly acts like all other bombs. I don’t care what side is doing it, what religion they are or what nationality, it’s disgusting.
Life is short enough without resorting to taking it from others, peace out.
@Bejasus Bejorrah: “I can’t prove my point intellectually so I’m just going to call the other person a troll”…. cop on. Have a good night.
@M Bowe: You could play whataboutery all night on this issue, troubles tennis, the point here is that either you think violence is right or wrong… or else you support it, in which case you can’t complain when it hits your family. There were hundreds of thousands of people on all sides who wanted to live peacefully, the vast majority in fact. It’s great that Martin has changed his ways allbeit late in the day.
@Scundered: youre an ass……youve done that much flopping around you arent worth the time or effort ..go troll somewhere else ..moron..
Are you 10? How do you think nationalism works? How do you think Croatia was formed, over a tea party? How do you think England created the nation of India, by way of friendly letters? Were you out protesting the violent US army men coming through Shannon?
Ah but scundered…the weakness in your claim of “impartially” is fact that you eagerly broadcast the atrocities of only one side….until you were pulled on it…..your orange knickers are showing.
@An_Beal_Bocht: So you support violence then?
@Pádraig Ó Braonáin: I mentioned my experiences of it… but since other people asked, I clarified the matter regarding all sides of the coin, have you a problem understanding this thread or what?
@Scundered: We all know you would have continued with that one-sided sectarian “poor me” story….a load of aul crap…your fooled nobody here with it, now go on down to yer drum practice…there are still Catholics to be intimidated.
@Pádraig Ó Braonáin: Sounds like you haven’t taken your medication today or just having too much trouble understanding this exchange so resorting to name calling… nevertheless I wish you luck in getting some new cats or foxes for your cat house.
Can’t say he didn’t stick to his guns!
I thought they decommissioned those?
@Emeralds:
UDA, UDF and British Armed Forces guns were never decommissioned.
Strange that!!
My only hope is that people will take note of the corruption in the DUP and will let them know on the streets and in the polling booth.
@Leon O’Hagan: And Sinn Fein corruption, Its as bad as FF
They did a U turn of water too
Martin should have retired gracefully. I would thank him for his efforts to bring peace. Now he destroyed all that and the jack asses on here can’t see it
Maith an fear Martin.
Can’t believe this. A Politician following through on his word.
It’s a pity a few of our TDs wouldn’t do the same. “The courage of their conviction “
The commendable man that he is !
@baz newham: now watch the north fall apart again
People don’t like eims !
18150 views in only 15 minutes, impressive.
@siobhan o brien:
This IS Ireland.
Honest and Proud and FREE.
Sorry to say but dunno about Honest now
Well now
GOOD. It’s just a pity SF weren’t in a position down south to collapse the governmnet that signed us up to private banking debt, or the last government which turned the anglo losses into 40 years of debt servitude for our citizens.
@For Connolly: They would hardly have collapsed the Government considering they voted for it.
Down south?
@For Connolly:
Don’t worry, they never will be.
The normal voter sees straight through the spin and will never vote for the shinners especially with Comrade Adams in charge.
@Imnotrodten:
Presume he means the sovereign nation of the Republic of Ireland – as opposed to the British statelet of Northern Ireland.
The Republic of Ireland is a football team. The country is called Ireland.
@Imnotrodten:
Nope.
@Chris Mansfield: “They would hardly have collapsed the Government considering they voted for it.”
They voted against the final version once published. They did so on 17 October 2008.
Correct, Republic of Ireland is a description of the state, not the states name.
cart – horse – bolted…………
for connolly. They could have collapsed our government if they had the balls to get involved in government instead of hurling on the ditch
@Fred Johnson: yep
@Gerry O’Rourke:
The Guarantee was effective immediately. The legislation was passed the next day, on the 1st of October 2008, the bill was put to the house and SF voted for it:
“Vote on Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill in Dail Eireann, 01 October 2008
“An Ceann Comhairle: As the time permitted for the debate has expired, I am required to
put the following question in accordance with the Order of the Dáil of 1 October 2008: “That
sections 7 to 9, inclusive, are hereby agreed to in Committee, the Title is agreed to in
Committee, the Bill is accordingly reported to the House without amendment, Fourth Stage
is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed.”
They stood up and supported it:
“This legislation is about more than the banks and I accept the point made in regard by
several speakers. It is about offering security to ordinary citizens, investors and Irish
businesses, which in turn means jobs. It may well prove to be a move that other states will
seek to emulate.”
Arthur Morgan TD, Dáil Eireann, Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill 2008, 30
September 2008
“Clearly the market has dipped but it will come back again on foot of this backing”
Arthur Morgan TD, Dáil Eireann, Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill 2008, 01 October
2008
“we certainly recognise that urgent action is needed to thwart the threat to the entire Irish
economy”
Arthur Morgan TD, Dáil Eireann, Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill 2008, 01 October
2008
“There are many outstanding questions on the real outworking of this legislation. However,
in consequence of what we recognise as a most serious situation facing the economy of this
State, there must be a courageous response.”
Caoimhghin O Caolain TD, Dáil Eireann, Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill 2008, 01
October 2008
“Sinn Fein members will support the Minister in the passage of this legislation”
Caoimhghin O Caolain TD, Dáil Eireann, Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill 2008, 01
October 2008″
“Pearse Doherty “appreciates” the Government action
“We appreciate the move by the Government today and remind ourselves that it is a bail-out
by taxpayers for the banks.”
Senator Pearse Doherty, Seanad Eireann, Statements on the economy, 30 September 2008″
“I intend to support this Bill as my party colleagues did in the Dáil when the vote was taken
there in the early hours this morning. We do this because the Bill is in the national interest”
Senator Pearse Doherty, Seanad Eireann, Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill 2008, 01
October 2008″
On the 2nd of October on their own website they explain the reasons (and reservations) here:
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/13782
“We did not take our decision to support this bill lightly. We have concerns and reservations. We supported the final passage of the bill because we believe this legislation is about more than the banks – it’s about offering security to ordinary citizens, to investors and to Irish businesses which in turn means jobs.”
@Gerry O’Rourke:
“And my dates were slightly wrong in that I should have said September 2008 and the legislation which gave effect to the guarantee in October.”
Ah, but the dates are what is relevant.
The legislation that gave effect to the guarantee was taken to a vote on the 1st of October. The guarantee was effective immediately and the next day the bill was put to the house and SF voted for it.
“Mr Ó Caoláin said the vote on the night of the guarantee, which was supported by Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil, the Green Party and Fine Gael, was only designed to indicate support for the banks. He said it would not have been effective if another law was not passed on October 17 and Sinn Féin tried to block this.”
As I said Gerry – cart – horse – bolted and as much as I admire Mr Ó Caoláin, this just doesn’t tally with what they said on the 17th and it’s in this link provided above:
“Deputy Arthur Morgan: Information on Arthur Morgan Zoom on Arthur Morgan I thank Deputy Rabbitte for sharing time with me. When the Minister for Finance introduced the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill before the House two weeks ago the Sinn Féin Party supported it. We did so because we believed it was necessary to stabilise the State’s banking system. Our judgement has been proved correct. Since its implementation Ireland has not lost a bank or been forced to bail out a bank with cash. However, the issue was about significantly more than banking.”
They objected to some terms and conditions and they raised their concerns about relevant issues – but they absolutely supported the bank guarantee .
By the way – for the record, they were sold an absolute pup, but buy it they did.
@Patrick Gough: But didn’t Regina not just create a storm by even suggesting working with SF? Simple maths shows SF were in the ditch rather they wanted to be or not
@Gerry O’Rourke:
“That [September 28 vote] did not give effect to the implementation of any proposal, it was an indication IN PRINCIPLE ”
I’m talking about the vote on the 1st of October.
“Vote on Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill in Dail Eireann, 01 October 2008
“An Ceann Comhairle: As the time permitted for the debate has expired, I am required to
put the following question in accordance with the Order of the Dáil of 1 October 2008: “That
sections 7 to 9, inclusive, are hereby agreed to in Committee, the Title is agreed to in
Committee, the Bill is accordingly reported to the House without amendment, Fourth Stage
is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed.”
The Guarantee came into immediate effect on the 30th of September.
“the legislation presented on October 17 with the Credit Institutions Bill that was the first opportunity to have sight of the real intent of Government and where all this was was to be directed”
It was already voted through on the 1st of October.
What was voted on on the 17th of October were amendments to the already existing legislation:
“I move:
That Dáil Éireann approves the terms of the draft scheme entitled Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Scheme 2008, a copy of which draft scheme was laid before Dáil Éireann on 15 October 2008.
This draft scheme is being presented to the House under Section 6(5) of the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Act 2008. The legislation was enacted on 2 October 2008 following debate in this House and the Seanad between 30 September 2008 and 2 October 2008. On the basis of the amendment made in the Bill during its passage through the Oireachtas, the draft scheme does not come into effect until it has been approved by both Houses.”
@Gerry O’Rourke: Are you now claiming that the guarantee was not implemented on the 30th of September 2008?
@Gerry O’Rourke: Yes you did and the implication of your question is that the guarantee was not in effect on the 17th of October.
So you might rephrase the question you asked here:
“Would the guarantee have came into effect without the Credit Institutions Support Act of October 17th?”
Because you might have gotten your dates mixed up – again.
@Linda Nolan: Something very familiar about you. Are you Patlyndo?
@watersedge: Was he of the same view? Are people who present facts such an anomaly around here? That seems to certainly be the case.
@Linda Nolan: I knew it. Funny how you answered, “Was he of the same view.” Patlyndo is a she.
C O D S W A L L O P!!!
C O D S W A LLOP.
Interesting. Big test now for the UUP-SDLP alliance. If they can’t get elected using this scandal and the Brexit situation, then they’ll never get elected.
How would this help the SDLP claw back ground lost to the Shinners?
@Emeralds:
A UUP-SDLP alliance is far more likely to deliver a United Ireland than the other pair, if Brexit turns out to be a disaster for the North which it is likely to be.
Done the decent thing. Bring that joke of a government fuelled by pellets. Fair play Martin
They had enough warnings, best of luck and good health to Martin McGuinness. he loos shuck in that photo of him signing that paper.
Maith an fear Martin
It was the right and proper thing to do …. Arlene Foster’s behavior on this has been disgraceful…. and using misogyny as an excuse to try and excuse her failings demeaned hard working women everywhere and set back opinions to her fave year ….. 1690 ….
Night is darkest just before the dawn.
Martin Mc Guinness was dead right Foster should have stepped down while their was an inquiry.
Good.
wow
Best of Luck to him. Dont know he this means he is retiring but it must be said he had a good relationship to the late Ian Paisley. Not so with Arlene.. Wish more politicians had his integrity to step aside when the political process is not morally acceptable to him. No one in the Republic like this.
Good now lets move forward to a united ireland
@Harry Foley:
That’s a far bit of a leap there!
Ends watching with wide eyes …
Irish Labour party, please take note.
Andrew,it’s the parasitic Fine Gael and fine fail’ers who also need lessons in integrity.Mc Guinness has unselfishly done more for this country than any of them.
Never knew we had so many Northern correspondents, commentators and experts residing in the comment section of TheJournal. RTÉ’s Tommie Gorman may watch out!
I am not a sf fan and never was but i would have more respect for them than any of the snakes in fg or ff
His integrity is beyond reproach……
Well done Martin you stood up and you were counted for not like Arlene the con artist people thought she was supposed to be a lady ()
@Dan Henry: Have you swallowed something funny? This is about an unlawful scam. Cutting trees with fossil fuel, destroying the habitats of wildlife, transporting it thousands of miles by diesel. Distributing it by diesel and heating empty building with it. This is an environmental disaster.
This is why we took a case to UNECE who rules Ireland, Britain and the EU in breach of the Aarhus convention,
Just looking at news on RTE Martin did not look very well, but that said Martin has done the right thing by stepping down, Martin is a life time fighting for the rights of people in Northern Ireland and I have no dought that when his health improves he will keep fighting the good fight, DUP hard liners need to come out of the past and realise that they no longer rule with the iron fist they had for so many years.
One of Ireland’s greatest leaders, the defender of Derry.
OK. Interesting times ahead.
Balaclavas 3 for a tenner!!!!
@THE BIG LAD: Could do with them now with the cold weather coming.
Did you get them off the Big Lad himself?
Sure what else would you want them for !!!
@THE BIG LAD: Willy warmers?
As in McCrea warmers lol.
Sinn Féin, the only Irish party who’s members stick to their word.
‘the only Irish party who’s members stick to their word’ – the only Irish party who is members stick to their word.
Paddy you’re a bit gutted lol
Your only a bag of wind. And we all know what bad wind smells like. Enda and co are like bad smells eventually they disappear for ever.
I don’t wish Mr McGuinness ill, but I do remember reading a story about him being treated for cancer. This seems to be somewhat related to that. While at the same time showing DUP that SF are getting much more serious about appealing to a broader base in NI.
Interesting times. McGuinness has been quite ill recently and even if this scandal did n’t happen it was probably only a matter of time before he had to step down anyway. SF is taking a gamble though with those AAA / PBP types nipping at their heels.
Big gamble hence no election yet just London will run the place.
SF lost a seat in May as well.
@Pierre Lecake: It depends at this time if SF wish to replace him with someone else, they have a week to decide before it triggers an election.
Chris it’s clearly obvious you haven’t even seen the interview yet.
Pierre and the sdlp and aliance
@Mr Phil Officer: Wrong Phil, BBC tv news channel have been running the interview all afternoon.
Good to see the shinners keeping up their high standards
When they’re as old in the Republic as Fianna Fail, all will be forgiven yeah ? Of course. Do you need a history lesson on Dev’s brain child ?
If the FF forefathers were around today they would be sitting over with SF.
@Mr Phil Officer: I can imagine Dev doing that alright, along with Bishop McQuade.
John Halligan…….
Or his ill health is at him ..and he wants to appear to be leaving on a principal.
On a principle even.
Sinn Fein wants out of government and a path into opposition. They love opposition. Not so fond of been in government though.
Do you understand what power sharing means?
@doorhandler: The Northern Executive isn’t run the same way as the Dail. There’s no “opposition” up there.
@meatyslabs. The SDLP and the yup are in opposition. They hold the seats that SF really want.
@doorhandler: what northern Ireland need is an opposition like f.f, who manage to be in coalition and opposition at the same time, some would see f.f as opportunistic cowards. But we know they feel they have a lot (of harm) done but have more to do.
Tool
@doorhandler: I have asked this question thousands of times.
Violent republicanism up to 1969 was centerest/ right leaning. This included Sinn Fein. Why did it turn communist.socialist in 1969? I know about Connolly, but he was a loner in the 1916 rising.
It’s amazing how so many of us love SF in Northern Ireland but not down here.
It’s true though.
This is a serious issue. Maybe some people think that NI is a joke but ordinary people are affected by the actions of politicians in NI
@Emer Lavin: Exactly. I traveled up to address the N.I. assemble energy committee in 2014 at the invitation of the Tyrone Anti wind group. I told that committee about the scam of wind energy and the hardship it was causing poorer people. They just did not want to know. Looked out the window. There was a Chinese looking lady in charge, no interest, Wasting my time,
Wind energy in the south gets a guaranteed price of 70 cent as opposed to the market price of 57 cents. Wind is rarely there when needed, https://www.youtube.com/user/ValMartinIreland
Chinese lady in charge eh Val? Why did you add that nugget of info in? Oh yeah climate chamge chinese hoax etc
Whataboutcha wee monn.
Why didn’t they support the SDLP motion of no confidence in Foster a few weeks ago? One may almost surmise that this is a typical Sinn Fein stunt. Who knows what controversy they’re trying to hide now.
I’d imagine it’s because they wanted to give the DUP time to do the right thing.
They thought the DUP would do the right thing? Seriously?
Jane, everyone deserves time to do the right thing, even Arlene and the DUPers.
Sf will not support corruption,non transparency,and fair play to them.is it going to be contagious,FF????
One less IRA/SF is always good.
Don’t you just love when Republicans take the moral high ground? ☺
Less moral high ground, better sniper position
@Paddy Lions: If polled – I’d imagine the overwhelming majority of people in Ireland have the greatest respect for Martin McGuinness – even those who disagreed with his political views. You’re on a very lonely road there Patrick Lyons, or whatever of your many fake accounts it is you’re using today.
Big mistake. In an election sf will lose to aaa and sdlp. big mistake
Here’s hoping.
Hang on a sec, if SF hadn’t pulled the plug, you’d be saying they don’t have the balls. SF have listened to the electorate. They gave Arnold plenty of time to step aside. But in typical DUP fashion she wouldn’t yield to a republican. The only losers in all this are the northern electorate who’ve been squeezed for a cool half billion.
@Andrew Corcoran: The British taxpayers are the only losers, allowing the NI executive squander their money.
@Chris Kirk: Correct, Britain never did a cost benefit analysis for renewable energy.
No loss. He should never have had the job in the first place.
Ah now Paddy, nobody likes a sore loser, he beat you fair and square!!
Paddy never really got over losing the one party rule system.
P lions your a gimp of the highest order.blueshirt traitor..youll be glas to hear”maam” is well again,was just a lizard flu
That’s a disaster, it looks like trouble ahead
If only a few more of them would follow
@Sarah Murphy: “them” who ? Like Foster, the corrupt moron ???
@Sarah Murphy: Very ignorant comment, who is “them”?
Think there’s more worth while news to hear than the whinging and moaning of this lot .
Just watching him on the telly. He is obviously very ill.
I saw the way RTE tried to work that into the equation alright, Tommy Gorman didn’t disappoint. He’s been sick on and off for a long time and was well able to work, he’s now just sick of bullsh*t
Id never wish ill health on anyone but this is making a virtue of necessity. Adams was saying before Christmas that McGuinness’ health was affecting his ability to do his job. At least itll put pressure on the DUP and ideally get that boot Foster the sack.
What would happen if they were like the south of the island where they do not waste or squander any public money. In the republic its simply called expenditure by our little Gombeen men.
Possibly because he’s in a Macmillan hospice?
He doesn’t look well in the second photo. Maybe it’s just lighting but he looks like he’s lost a lot of weight.
An election in the mouth of Brexit. Interesting times ahead. Uniting Ireland once more flung aside.
Nope I’m not sick no no no it’s RHI
He hasn’t gone away, you know!
Well done lawds, you just lost the only Statesman you have up there.
According to BBC news, McGuinness has announced that he is standing down as Deputy First Minister of the Northern Ireland Executive at 5pm this afternoon. This move effectively brings down First Minister Arlene Foster and will hold for a week until a possible election is announced. Whatever discussions take place in the meantime could possibly avert an election, but we shall wait and see.
It will be interesting. Could we have a Northern Executive Government made of Sinn Féin, the SDLP and the Ulster Unionist Party with the DUP in opposition? Nationalist First Minister and Unionist Deputy First Minister? The Ulster Unionists might go for it just to get one up on the DUP. Interesting times ahead!!!
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: Any chance the Unionist vote will be so scattered that we get Nationalist First and Second Minister?
I’m not 100% sure but I think the government has to be made up of parties from both sides of the community, so that isn’t possible under the current system.
The lower photograph is trying to give the impression that this clown can write.
You’re so bitter Paddy. I’m starting to think your real name isn’t Paddy. Maybe it’s Gregory or Sammy.
All blowing up now
Still no election over 6 weeks on. Resigning as minister is meaningless.
Now Gerry needs to do the same. Fresh start for Sinn Fein.
Mcguinness is not looking well, i wonder will he retired now, or am i wrong??
Jayz i never thought mcguiness was THAT misogynistic!
Are SF getting their house of cards in order? My theory: Adams to resign his Dáil seat and stand for MLA in the North, thus making way for Mary Lou to take up the reigns in the South. You heard it here first!
And with that action SF just saved themselves from losing a couple of seats in the next election.
Sure its up north, what do we care :)
Ya it’s only all of 2 hours up the road :)
Is Ms Foster a misandrist?
It’s high time mr Adams and pint mcguinness stands aside and let Mary lou lead the party. After all Mary Lou is not tainted.
mary lou may not be tainted but she sure is tanned
@Steven Hillert Not tainted? Once you enter the blood-stained IRA/SF cave you automatically become tainted.
#mexit
Martin McGuinness seems a very sick man!
Too much blood on his hands!!!
@James Sweeney: Very true James. The rats in the gutter will always be just that – rats.
Gerry are u still on the payroll….
Cheeky move by McGuinness considering he was in charge of the Provo Cash for Ashes scheme in the 70s
He was in charge when he was 21? that’s some going
he looks to be gravely ill, only a matter of time
Adams won’t be far after him
as much as I respect Martin mac Guinness for at least what he’s tried to do, I believe this is all about his health. He looks dreadful and came across as being very frail during his resignation statement. There will be an election, same result and back to the same old s@$te. I reckon the British tax paper is wondering WTF
more shinner theatrics, to see them taking the high moral ground is laughable, all they are good for only two things, political and media stunts, and trying to manipulate public opinion in whatever means possible fair or foul, such as red thumbing comments here and elsewhere.
I like poo
@Gareth: Would nutella not be better for you instead…
Hell no poo all the way
@Gareth: Ooooo… Vile…
He didn’t sound or look the best, had he the flu???
have your say