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There was chaos in France today as police dealt with two live hostage situations. We kept you updated on all developments throughout the day in this liveblog.
A summary of the main developments in France today…
11.10pm: AFP reports tonight:
As the drama reached its climax, chilling links emerged showing the brothers, identified as Cherif and Said Kouachi, and supermarket gunman Amedy Coulibaly were close allies and had worked together. Paris prosecutor Francois Molins said Coulibaly had “threatened to kill all the hostages” if police moved in on the Kouachi brothers, and he had said the supermarket was booby-trapped.The three all had a radical past and were known to French intelligence.
It also said that at the printing business in Dammartin-en-Goele, the brothers took the store manager hostage, later releasing him after he helped Said with his wound, while a second man hid upstairs, said Paris prosecutor Francois Molins.
The men had a hefty cache of arms including Molotov cocktails and a loaded rocket-launcher.
One witness described a terrifying face-to-face encounter with one of the suspects, dressed in black, wearing a bullet-proof vest and carrying what looked like a Kalashnikov.
The salesman told France Info radio that one of the brothers said: “‘Leave, we don’t kill civilians anyhow’.”
The French police have released this video of the scene at Dammartin-en-Goele:
Francois Molins revealed that Coulibaly and Boumedienne had spoken more than 500 times to the Kouachi brothers over the phone, The Guardian reports.
Molins also said it was likely that four of the hostages who perished were killed before the police entered the Kosher market, but rather when the gunman entered the building.
There are five people in detention. They include the wife of one of the Kouachi brothers.
Two hostage situations are taking place in France at the same time, with police forces reporting full attendances at work.
Two people have been killed at the Paris kosher store hostage situation, reports AFP.
French police have released photographs of a 26-year-old woman and 32-year-old man wanted in connection with yesterday’s killing of a police officer. Police warn both should be considered armed and dangerous.
@Fiaxhs on Twitter, who lives near the kosher store, has been posting images of the scene.
He has since said he will allow police to get on with their jobs and post text updates only.
Here is a close-up of the images released by French police over yesterday’s ‘terror incident’ during which a police officer lost her life.
The latest from AFP on those two suspects – who are also thought to
They were named as Amedy Coulibaly, 32, and Hayat Boumeddiene, 26, and are considered “armed and dangerous”. At least two people have been killed in the stand-off at the grocery store, according to official sources.
France24 reports that Coulibaly is linked to the two attackers in the Charlie Hebdo massacre.
More details now emerging about Coulibaly, who police sources say has taken at least five hostages at a kosher supermarket, including connections to the shooting of a policewoman in Paris yesterday and the massacre at the Charlie Hebdo offices.
There are now clear indications that all three terror attacks in Paris over the past three days are linked.
France24 have discussed a link between three of the suspects through terror networks in Yemen.
There are unconfirmed reports of another incident taking place at the Trocadero Centre in Paris. There is a lot of activity on social media, including a report from Sky News.
France24 says tourists have been moved from the area.
Local media are now reporting that the Trocadero evacuation came after a ‘false alarm’. Julien Pain is a top editor with France24. Quoting the Interior Ministry, he says:
Coulibaly, the suspect in the policewoman killing yesterday and the hostage situation at the Jewish supermarket, is being profiled now by French media.
He is described as a 32 year old with a history of crime, including theft and drug-dealing. His name was also linked to the attempted prison break in 2010 of Smaïn Aït Ali Belkacem who bombed Paris Metro in 1995.
Stores across the Jewish quarter in Paris have closed as a precaution after hostages were taken at a kosher store in Vincennes.
The Mayor of the 4th arrondissement said on Twitter that the shops would close.
As a precaution the Mayor & Police Commissioner called for the immediate closure of all street shops des Rosiers.
Back to Dammartin … where the Charlie Hebdo suspects are holed up at at a printing business in the small town.
This powerful image shows children in their local school, waiting for police to give the green light so they can be safely moved to a location where their parents will pick them up.
More human faces of this horrific chain of events.
The children were eventually escorted out of their schools.
More on those Yemeni connections of the Paris attackers. Confirmation from officials in the country.
A recap on the four suspects:
Chérif Kouachi and Said Kouachi, aged 32 and 34, are suspected of killing 12 people after storming the offices of Charlie Hebdo magazine.
They are now surrounded by police in Dammartin, 40kms northeast of Paris, but are holding a hostage. Talks between investigators and the pair are ongoing.
The brothers have both said they are willing to ‘die as martyrs’.
One of the brothers, Said, is suspected to have fought for Al Qaeda in Yemen, while Cherif was also involved in jihadist groups.
Amedy Coulibaly, aged 32, is suspected of killing a French police officer yesterday and is thought to be the man keeping hostages at a Jewish store.
He has been convicted of firearm-related incidents, theft and drug-dealing. He was well known to authorities during his earlier life but on converting to Islam, he seemed to have reformed.
However, he soon became radicalised. Local media are reporting that he was part of the same jihadist group as Chérif Kouachi. There is a picture emerging that they were friends.
Hayat Boumeddiene is 26 years old. She is the girlfriend of Coulibaly, according to Le Monde which reports they have been involved since 2010. French media haven’t discovered much about her yet, except that she did wear a veil.
As more people try to dig up information on the four people police are looking to take into custody, this incredible article has come to light.
Tweeted by the Deputy Head of Der Spiegel’s foreign desk, Mathieu Von Rohr, it depicts Coulibaly five years ago – just before he was about to meet then-President Sarkozy.
At the time, he was working for Coca-Cola.
Two young men have been arrested as they arrived near the kosher supermarket in Vincennes.
Gunfire has been reported at Dammartin-En-Goele. Sky News pictures show smoke rising from where the hostage situation is believed to be taking place.
Reports say that the operation to free the hostages in Dammartin has reached its “end-game” and more police have arrived within the last hour.
The burst of gunfire is believed to have lasted around 10 seconds.
TV images show at least three people on the roof of the printing company in Dammartin where the Koauchi brothers are believed to have taken hostages.
AFP reports that the storming of the printing company was carried out by French commandos.
Sky’s Kay Burley says that “four very loud explosions” have been heard at the kosher supermarket in Vincennes.
In Dammartin, police are on the roof, but details of the assault remain scant.
Again, AFP reports that the assault on the supermarket in Paris has been carried out by French commandos.
Sky News say that journalists are being moved back “urgently” in Eastern Paris. They add that mobile phone signals are being scrambled.
AFP, citing sources, is reporting that the Koauchi brothers, suspects in Wednesday’s Charlie Hebdo massacre, have been killed.
AFP also says that “several” hostages have been freed from the supermarket in Paris.
France24 is now reporting that the two hostages in Dammartin have been released safely.
A member of France’s special forces has reportedly been injured in the Dammartin assault. His injuries are not thought to be life-threatening.
Associated Press, citing a police official have confirmed that Said and Cherif Kouachi, who killed 12 people at the offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo on Wednesday, are dead.
The hostage-taker at the supermarket in Vincennes has been killed, it is being reported.
Hostages have been removed from the supermarket in Vincennes.
This is the moment police stormed the second siege in east Paris.
A child was among those held hostage at the Jewish supermarket.
Amedi Coulibaly, the hostage taker in the Paris supermarket, has been killed, AFP says, citing a security source.
This was the scene as police stormed the HyperCacher in Vincennes.
Reuters reports that four hostages have been killed in the assault on the kosher supermarket in Paris.
The female suspect in the supermarket siege has escaped in the confusion, CNN reports.
AFP reports that four more people were left critically injured in the supermarket siege. It is not known if they were police or hostages.
It is not clear as yet whether the hostages died before or during the raid on the supermarket.
The hostage in Dammartin was there unknown to the Kouachi brothers, it has been reported.
French media is now reporting that the second suspect in the kosher supermarket is an second, as yet unknown, male.
The unknown second male has escaped, French media say.
The woman, Hayat Boumeddiene, who had earlier been reported as the second hostage-taker, now appears not to have been involved, though police are still seeking her in connection with the shooting of a policeman yesterday.
AFP reports from the scene in Vincennes:
“It’s war!” screamed a mother as she dragged her daughter from the scene.
A robbery at a jewellers in the southern French city of Montpellier has become a hostage situation, but it is not thought to be linked to events in Paris.
French Interior Minister Bernard Cezeneuve has said that information is still coming in.
The supermarket gunman, Amedi Coulibaly, told a television station he was a member of the Islamic State group, AFP is reporting.
He added that he had “coordinated with” the Kouachi brothers.
French President Francois Hollande is holding a press conference right now. He has said “we’ve got to have no pity against anti-Semitism, because it is an anti-Semitic attack that was carried out”.
These fanatics “have nothing to do with Islam and religion”, he added.
“We are a nation that is not scared, that is not frightened”
Hollande told the French nation that all necessary means will be implemented to protect French people following the incidents.
He said that many heads of State will join him at a solidarity march which is planned for Sunday.
Hollande also praised the courage and efficiency of the police, SWAT and other teams involved in the efforts to free the hostages and locate the perpetrators of the attacks.
He appealed to French people not to be frightened during this time.
To clarify – when Hollande was speaking about an ‘anti-Semitic’ attack, he was referring to the attack on Vincennes.
He said in his speech that protection of public spaces was reinforced, “to guarantee that we can live quietly, in peace”. But he said that “we must remain vigilant”.
Hollande confirmed that four people were killed in the grocery store attack in Paris.
Plantu, a cartoonist with le Monde, is speaking to France 24. He said that the attack was “expected”.
“When people say this is so unexpected, it is expected,” said Plantu, adding that he has met cartoonists in Denmark who are effectively on house arrest over threats to them.
The cartoonist described the Charlie Hebdo staff as “immensely talented artists”, saying that the “greatest names in satirical artists” were taken down by the killers at Charlie Hebdo.
“We as artists don’t have many resources to construct this pedagogy, this dialogue between Christians and Jews and Muslims,”, he said. Plantu said that when he does a drawing criticising Israel over attacks on Gaza, he finds anti-semitic drawings on his Facebook.
A new image has emerged from Paris, showing hostages escaping the kosher grocery store.
If you look in the middle, to the left, you’ll see a small child being held by a man, accompanied by officers:
Another photo showing the small child – and the clearly distressed man holding him. This is taken from outside the kosher market, where a gunman held at least five people hostage. Four died in this incident.
CNN is reporting that there is a “massive search” underway for the woman who is reportedly a suspect in the Paris hostage-taking situation.
It quotes a police union spokesman as saying that the woman, Hayat Boumeddiene, was the alleged accomplice of the hostage-taker at the grocery store.
This man has already been named as Amedy Coulibaly, aged 32. He is believed to have died.
Here’s Obama’s take on the situation:
While in Knoxville, Tennessee, he said he is being kept up-to-date with the events as they unfold.
Meanwhile, British Prime Minister David Cameron has been named as one of the European leaders who intend on taking part in the unity rally in Paris this Sunday:
The Guardian reports that the editor of Charlie Hebdo, Gérard Briard, said that there will not be an obituary for his colleagues in the next issue. He made the comments on the Libération website.
Many weekly magazines across the world have been paying their own tributes to the Charlie Hebdo staff.
Here’s The New Yorker’s take:
And Der Spiegel:
According to AFP, two of the gunmen talked to BFMTV station before they were killed today.
Coulibaly allegedly told the French channel that he had “co-ordinated” the attacks with the Kouachi brothers.
“They took Charlie Hebdo, me the police” he said.
Meanwhile, Kouachi, the younger sibling said that they were on a mission from the Yemeni branch of Al-Qaeda.
He said that a trip he made to Yemen in 2011 was financed by American-Yemeni radical Anwar al-Awlaki, who was killed in Yemen by an American drone strike in September that year.
The Twitter hashtag JeSuisCharlie went worldwide this week. Here’s how it lit up the network.
French Prime Minister Manuel Valls has said that the week’s events show the security failings in France.
The Associated Press reports that an Al-Qaeda member in Yemen has taken credit for the attack on Charlie Hebdo.
The member provided to The Associated Press a statement in English saying “the leadership of AQAP directed the operations and they have chosen their target carefully.”
He says the attack was in line with warnings from the late al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden to the West about “the consequences of the persistence in the blasphemy against Muslim sanctities”
He said the group has delayed its declaration of responsibility for “security reasons.”
He spoke on condition of anonymity because of the group’s regulations.
AFP now reports that the gunman in the supermarket was on his phone to others, urging more attacks.
This footage, which some viewers may find distressing, shows officers storming the supermarket.
*WARNING: Graphic content*
In Paris, a message of defiance against those who would attack it.
AFP reports that Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper and French President Francois Hollande have pledged to work more closely to stamp out the threat of terrorism.
You might remember that in October of last year, Canada was rocked by two ‘lone wolf’ attacks that led to the deaths of two soldiers.
In a telephone conversation, “the two leaders condemned the attacks and spoke of the importance of cooperating to counter the scourge of extremism and terrorism,” Harper’s office said in a statement.
Harper also offered condolences and “indicated that Canada stands in solidarity with France as it mourns this senseless loss of life and reiterated that Canada and its allies will not be intimidated by those who threaten peace, freedom, including freedom of the press, and democracy.”
Asterix creator, Albert Uderzo, has come out of retirement to draw this ‘Je suis Charlie’ cartoon. Here’s more from the Independent:
The images have been published in French newspaper Le Figaro, where Uderzo is quoted as saying: “I am not changing my work, I simply want to express my affection for the cartoonists that paid for their work with their lives.”
The girlfriend of Stephane Charbonnier, the murdered Charlie Hebdo editor, has given an interview about her partner’s death.
The Daily Mail says that Jeanette Bougrab says that she begged Charbonnier to leave France, but he wouldn’t. She feared for his life because of his career.
Here’s the French Government’s official tweet about the march on Sunday:
A video has emerged of one of the suspected shooters, Cherif Kouachi, calling into a French TV station, BFM TV today:
The Washington Post has a translation of part of the conversation.
A silent walk will take place in Dublin tomorrow to show support for the people of France. More information can be found at the Facebook page.
The organisers say:
This is about showing all the victims, that they didn’t suffer for nothing. This is about showing all the journalists around the world, that we acknowledge their work and that we know what they are doing for us. This is about showing the world that we do not need guns to feel free and that we are strong because we are united.
Earlier….
Two brothers suspected of slaughtering 12 people in an unprecedented jihadist attack in France held one person hostage on Friday as police cornered the gunmen northeast of the capital.
France 24 reports that negotiations are taking place, and there are currently no plans to storm the building.
The hostage drama unfolded at a printing business in the small town of Dammartin-en-Goele, only 12 kilometres from Paris’s main Charles de Gaulle airport, police sources said.
“It’s not sure how many people are inside,” the source said.
“An operation is underway which is set to neutralise the perpetrators of the cowardly attack carried out two days ago,” French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuv said in a televised statement.
Prior to the standoff, the suspects had hijacked a Peugeot 206 nearby from a woman who said she recognised them as the brothers, accused of killing 12 people in Wednesday’s attack on the satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo, which repeatedly lampooned the Prophet Mohammed.
Journalists are now being asked to move further away from the scene.
Students in nearby schools were being kept indoors but have now been evacuated.
One person has been taken hostage. Prosecutors have denied reports of casualties.
However, neighbouring hospitals have been advised to implement a plan to prepare for a large number of casualties.
Some helicopters in the area have landed, potentially as the exact location of the suspects has been pinpointed.
Those at the scene have described the police presence as ‘enormous’.
The frantic search for the pair suspected of committing the worst atrocity on French soil in more than half a century came as it emerged they had been on a US terror watch list “for years”.
In a highly unusual step, President Francois Hollande was due to meet far-right leader Marine Le Pen at the Elysee Palace later Friday, as France geared up for a “Republican march” on Sunday expected to draw hundreds of thousands.
In a speech today, he praised the support of political opponents.
He said everything must be done to protect the hostage taken in the stand-off.
“Certain forces want to destabilise our country. We’ve stopped them several times before,” the president told press.
A huge security operation has seen more than 80,000 French police and soldiers deployed across the country – focusing on rural areas north of Paris.
The manhunt came as the head of Britain’s domestic spy agency MI5 warned that Islamist militants were planning other “mass casualty attacks against the West” and that intelligence services may be powerless to stop them.
The attacks have sparked a global outpouring of tributes and solidarity. US President Barack Obama was the latest to sign a book of condolence in Washington with the message “Vive la France!” as thousands gathered in Paris on a day of national mourning Thursday, and the Eiffel Tower dimmed its lights to honour the dead.
Book of condolences
Taoiseach Enda Kenny signed the book of condolences at the Embassy of France in Dublin.
Earlier in the week the Taoiseach made a statement that he was “appalled by the brutal and horrific killings which occurred earlier today in Paris at the offices of the Charlie Hebdo magazine. Our thoughts are above all with the victims and their families, but also with the people of Paris and France.”
Today is expected to see Muslim faithful attending prayers across France after the head of the French Muslim Council called on people to gather “in dignity and silence”, and urged imams to condemn “violence and terrorism”.
In the rural Aisne region northeast of Paris, armed police and paramilitary forces backed by helicopters searched a wooded area near where the fugitives are believed to have robbed a petrol station and abandoned their getaway car following Wednesday’s shooting in the capital.
Around 24 hours into the manhunt, the brothers were identified after holding up the petrol station 80 kilometres from Paris, before fleeing again, possibly on foot and still armed with at least a Kalashnikov, police said.
Special police units rushed to the scene, where a maximum security alert was declared in addition to the capital.
Islamic State, the militant group sowing terror across swathes of Iraq and Syria, hailed the brothers as “heroes” on its Al-Bayan radio station.
French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve announced that a total of 88,000 security forces were on alert across the country and that an international meeting on terrorism would take place in Paris on Sunday.
On US watch list ‘for years’
Arrest warrants were issued for Cherif Kouachi, 32, a known jihadist convicted in 2008 for involvement in a network sending fighters to Iraq, and his 34-year-old brother Said. Both were born in Paris to Algerian parents and were orphaned at an early age.
A senior US administration official told AFP that one of the two brothers was believed to have trained with Al-Qaeda in Yemen, while another source said that the pair had been on a US terror watch list “for years”.
The brothers were both flagged in a US database as terror suspects, and also on the no-fly list, meaning they were barred from flying into the United States, the officials said.
Cazeneuve meanwhile said nine people had been detained as part of the operation.
Mourad Hamyd, an 18-year-old suspected of being an accomplice in the attack, handed himself in, police sources said. It was not clear what role, if any, he may have played in the attack.
Several thousand people gathered later in Paris for a second night in tribute to those killed as the Eiffel Tower dimmed its lights.
Television footage showed children at a Muslim school in the northern city of Lille holding up sheets of paper emblazoned “not in my name”.
Charlie Hebdo reporter Laurent Leger, who miraculously survived the bloodbath by hiding under a table, gave the first eyewitness account from inside the office.
“I saw a masked man, I saw a lot of blood, I saw half the editorial team on the ground,” he told France Info radio. “I saw horror.”
Meanwhile, several other incidents rocked the jittery nation including the fatal shooting of a policewoman just south of Paris.
Two Muslim places of worship were fired at, prosecutors said, although no casualties were reported.
- © AFP, 2015, additional reporting by Sinéad O’Carroll, Nicky Ryan, Aoife Barry, Paul Hosford and Michael Sheils McNamee
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Increase taxes in order to meet global warming target?
What am I missing here?
@Daniel Dudek Corrigan: The idea is that people will look to use less fuel and electricity in order to keep they’re bills down. It is supposed to encourage people to only use what they need to and not be wasteful.
@Daniel Dudek Corrigan: the elephant in the room: Ireland is legally bound to reduce carbon emissions by a certain percentage and we are way behind the target and fines/purchase of carbon credits will be required.
@Darren Byrne: but ends up hurting people who need to commute to work the most. They should be building renewable energy sources and move away from burning peat (arguably one of the dirtiest ways of producing electricity) instead of constantly increasing taxes for everything. It doesn’t work and hurts people on low incomes
@Darren Byrne: We are already using only what we need to as we pay among the highest prices in europe for electricity and gas, no alternatives,so what are we to do…..freeze,as cutting down is not an option so cutting out is the alternative,crazy tax on necessities.
@Myles Collier: The taxes being charged are being used to fund grants for developing renewables such as wind.
People may start considering things like carpooling or public transport as the cost goes up therefore helping to reduce emissions.
We switched to an electric car because of the savings it could over and it has dramatically reduced our carbon footprint
@Myles Collier: carbon taxes actually have been shown to work at reducing emissions in some jurisdictions, so they will be brought In here too, it’s only a matter of time.
@Myles Collier: Agreed, and I wouldn’t mind these hikes if the money raised on the carbon taxes all actually went into building said renewable sources.
@Myles Collier: 1. They are building renewable energy sources and have more planned if people would stop blocking the planning permissions. 2. They are moving away from peat burning and mixing it with biomass but it takes time to build up the biomass while retaining the employment at the same time. 3. Where is it shown that it doesn’t work? 4. Agreed, it will hurt people on low and all incomes if they don’t reduce energy consumption.
@James Wallace: absolutely it has shown to reduce emissions but it has also shown to be damaging to people on low incomes. It’s a solution the effects of which are felt more by poorer families
@Markonline: apologies I meant it doesn’t work for low income families, I can see how that is not clear. I’m glad they are moving away from biomass because it produces a lot of c02 when you burn peat but also the bog is a natural carbon sink and digging them up means they wont replenish for thousands if not millions of years
@Myles Collier: FG hate the poor & the working classes, didn’t you know this?
@Daniel Dudek Corrigan: seeing people driving just 200 meters to bring their child to school and /or to childcare and back again at home, instead of walking, I understand that taxes are not high enough unfortunately.
@Darren Byrne: ahh, the same reason they’re increasing the price of alcohol?
@Daniel Dudek Corrigan: Tax (money)
@Darren Byrne: Darren it’s a 100 mile round trip for me to go to work it’s not going to get any less if diesel goes up.
@Darren Byrne: Its still too expensive for a new electric car and id be afraid to buy a second hand one I know two people that were hit with nearly €7000 bill to replace the batteries when they bought a second hand electric car, I can barely afford petrol after my rent so for me its going to hit hard when fuel goes up, im not putting electric cars down at all if I could afford a new one I would buy one
@Mac Dara Powell: “Darren it’s a 100 mile round trip for me to go to work it’s not going to get any less if diesel goes up.”
It’s not, though the intent is presumably that you’d switch to some other mode of transport. Right now a 40kWh electric vehicle would be fine for such a 160km roundtrip, and you’re likely only talking €2-2.50 to recharge at home (night-rate metre) versus, what €10+ diesel?
@Daniel Dudek Corrigan: So you pay taxes or freeze to death
@Thomas McGuire: but dont forget to factor in any increase in electricity prices will ALSO push up the cost of running your electric car !!
@Darren Byrne: contributing to super profits of the energy companies who produce it…. wake up
@Patrick Mulligan: the hope is that those who can afford to switch will thus brining down the emissions and the need to keep increasing the tax to pay the fine. The more who switch the decent second hand ones will be available
@Daniel Dudek Corrigan: The Government should contribute to Climate change out of the excise duty paid in the price of diesel why should the hard working people. trying to make end meet have less cash for their hard earned wagee
@Geraldine Fenton: Pretty much all they are doing instead of providing solutions is to create more taxes to pay for the fines
@Markonline: solution : shoot the elephant in the room. We should not have signed up to anything.
@Eric Davies: Scale of difference won’t radically alter. Besides, this further incentivises solar panels installation at home, which your electric vehicle can (partially) charge with
So all these new “green energy” initiatives will be tax free right?
Reducing emmissions by charging people more to use them is not a smart or good plan and will not work if the goal is to actually reduce emmissions.
Providing non-carbon alternatives is the only thing the will reduce carbon usage and in turn emmissions.
How about cutting the subsidies to the biggest polluters in our society and globally.
How about subsidies to average citizens to upgradde their homes with green iniciatives.
There are smarter and more logical ways our government should approach this, but I suppose that’s too much to expect. they’ll go with the usual plan of do nothing except take more money from your pocket
@Darren Byrne: as it stands, if people use less fuel etc the poorest will end up cold and hungry. Some countries “trade off” with countries that have low energy emissions as in the Third World countries. It is an “artificial” tax that will not be effective. The energy efficient person will equally taxed with the energy inefficient person.
@Darren Byrne: And yet we still use coal fired power stations owned by the state Moneypoint in Clare on it’s own produces 20% of the country’s CO2 emissions!!!
Address the problem and don’t use this as an excuse to increase taxes.
@Dwayne Jordan: it is a proven way to address the problem. If forces people to be less wasteful so as not have to pay too much. if everyone could drop 1.5 tonnes from their emissions we’d hit target. Personally my wife and I have reduced our emissions by getting an electric car, one of the main reasons for doing this was the huge cost saving it could provide.
@Darren Byrne: but won’t your electricity bill go up too? your not using fossil fuel but your using electricity. if your electricity comes from wind power maybe you won’t be hit as bad but doesn’t most of our electricity here come from oil?
@Darren Byrne: Sure all its going to do is push up the prices of busses, taxis and trains etc. Then because trucks will be paying more for transporting goods, the price of food will go up..
@Darren Byrne: How proven? Our electricity is among the most expensive in Europe, so is our fuel. So we should already be among the best in Europe already by that logic right?
@Darren Byrne: BS not where there aren’t alternatives. You don’t think 1.35 plus diesel prices won’t put people off. And why did you get a car and not use public transport
@Dean Anderson: yes the electricity will go up but generation of electricity even from fossil fuels is a much more efficient use and results in less emissions. Also we’re up to 23% electricity from renewables. I’m with Airtricity who supply all their customers needs with renewable.
As for the bill because we got the car we switch to a night meter. Car charges at night along with running the washing machine and dishwasher at night. The bill has not gone up.
@Bilbo Baggins: yes but when compared to average wages its relatively low. Bulgaria may pay about 48% of the price we do but their average wage is less than 20% of ours.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/news/themes-in-the-spotlight/energy-prices-2017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage
@ed w: I do use public transport but my wife’s job is not anywhere near public transport. As I said it all comes down to having a good enough reason, running an electric car in to work for myself would be about as cheap as public transport but the cost of buying another one is off putting so I wont do it.
@Darren Byrne: adding taxes is not a proven way to reduce it. If it was, the carbon tax wouldn’t be going up all the time because we are not meeting our targets. Just think about it !
@Darren Byrne: methinks Darren works in PR
@Darren Byrne: And yet using your example, of Bulgaria using their numbers they comparatively pay 2 1/2 times more for their electricity compared to their average wage. Yet they use only 14% less energy than us per head of capita, given our latitude difference you could knock another few % off that. Are you willing to pay double for electricity for a 10% reduction in usage?
@Bilbo Baggins: if we had 14 percent reduction we wouldn’t be talking about the need for such dramatic hikes.
@Darren Byrne: Haha you’ve completely ignored my point.
@Darren Byrne: Bulgaria’s economic output is about half of ours (with 51% more people )… And still only 14% less energy … They’ve also had about an hour’s more daylight today. …
@Darren Byrne: ah ok, fair enough so
@Darren Byrne: I’m with Airtricity and my electric bill is higher than Electric Ireland. It’s all greenwashing. We have only one network and a fixed generating capacity.
@Bilbo Baggins: every bit more daylight they get in the winter we get that more than them in the summer, your point? I used Bulgaria to prove that our electricity prices are not that high relative to others
You have somehow conflated higher gdp with higher emissions which if true would leave China economy departing that of Europe but it doesn’t
@John Moylan: I rang them a week ago and got an 18 precent discount. All suppliers feed in to the network. They then buy or sell to meet customers needs. Airtricity put more in to the network then sell thus suppling all their customers needs from renewables.
@Dean Anderson: night meters can be good for the environment their the carrot to the tax man’s stick.
@Darren Byrne: People tend not to need that bit more daylight we have in the summer at 4am. And if you can’t equate economic output to energy usage and balance that with population I don’t have the time to explain I’m afraid , Apologies Darren I thought given you began with a comparison on the basis of metrics that you might understand. Waste at the consumer level is not controlled by tax, that’s an archane concept. That will only lower economic activity as it gives people less to spend everywhere else. We need incentive and innovation. The stick again and again has been shown to be far less effective than the carrot.
@Darren Byrne: we would love an electric car but can’t afford one. Can’t afford a replacement car of any type. What this will do is make the poor of the country turn off heating when they should have it on, this will lead to people, especially the elderly dying from hypothermia in their own homes. It happened in the UK and it will happen here.
@Darren Byrne: im with airtricity too ,have been for a good number of years – so im using renewable electricity -yet my bills and tariffs have just gone up again by almost 12% -plus pso levy and vat — so much for ‘renewables’ saving money eh !
@Dean Anderson: Electricity is still being generated by burning fossil fuels so who is Varadkar kidding?
MORE MONEY FOR THE BIG BOYS AND THERE PENSION????????
@Pauline Fedigan: Ireland pays massively over the odds in comparison to India and China for emission violations and the government feeds us more diatribe and taxes
We should put on an extra vest to help out Leo !
If the government were serious about carbon reduction there would be no road tax or VRT on electric vehicles.
@Sorcha Ní Shúilleabháin: there’s huge promotions on them at the moment check up the Nissan Leaf offers their doing them for taxi drivers and everyone
@Sorcha Ní Shúilleabháin: There is no VRT on moderately priced electric vehicles under 37000 (excluding VRT) and those over get a 5000 reduction. Also road tax is only 120 euro.
@Darren Byrne: “Also road tax is only 120 euro”
Road tax on the average car in Portugal is €35 a year.. There’s no only about it, We have been conditioned to accept being ripped off.
@Rob Cahill: Where are you getting your figure from. From what I can see there’s a bit of calculation required for anything registered first time in Portugal after 2007 but some are worked out
Car diesel 2008 with 1461cm3 and 109g / km CO2: € 58.04 + € 59.33 * € 1.05 + € 10.07 = € 128.49
Gasoline car 2015 with 1199cm3 and 130g / km CO2: € 28.92 + € 88.90 * 1,15 = € 135.49
2018 diesel car with 1598cm3 and 99g / km CO2: 58,04 € + 59,33 € * 1,15 + 10,07 € = 145,05 €
Car petrol 2017 with 2997cm3 and 207g / km CO2: € 396.86 + € 193.08 + € 28.92 * 1.15 = € 711.69
Now considering they’re wages are about a third of ours these seem comparable. Also Portugal have their own VRT.
https://impostosobreveiculos.info/iuc/imposto-unico-circulacao-iuc-2018/#principal
@Darren Byrne: “There is no VRT on moderately priced electric vehicles under 37000 (excluding VRT)” Moderately priced :) :) , im falling off my chair
@Sorcha Ní Shúilleabháin: what fuel is used to power the electricity power stations ?
Water ?
@Quentin Moriarty: Well yes. :) Hydroelectric provides some power, as does wind, peat, gas etc. It’s a fuel mix. You can view it here on the eirgrid dashboard.
http://smartgriddashboard.eirgrid.com/
It also is many times more efficient to produce electricity in a large power plant, than it is in a car/van, even if assuming all fossil fuels. Less emissions, less heat waste etc.
Good question though, and it really shows that there has been no information initiative to inform people about this. Some education is clearly needed.
@Declan Gowran: the Renault Zoe is only 23000, they are moderately prices compared to other EV’s like a Tesla or iPace. when these vehicles can save you thousands a year they can be a great saving.
@Jane Bresnan: I would agree more education is needed but how do you get anyone to pay attention, they simply don’t want to learn.
@Darren Byrne: yeah 280 for my 2.0 litre diesel, electric vehicles should be 0.
@Quentin Moriarty: What’s your point? I said carbon reduction not elimination.
@Jane Bresnan: hence the idea to now charge the use of the charging stations as it is not sustainable
@Sorcha Ní Shúilleabháin: look to methane from cows mouths and the airline industry before anything else any do not want an electric car for practical reasons and others cannot afford them but they have to take the hits
Green Party under Gormley were blown out of the water for their emission reduction policies
FG should thread carefully on this one
@Quentin Moriarty: Don’t really understand your point there? What’s not sustainable, public chargers?
The majority of EV drivers charge at home or at work. Ireland is a fairly small country. A lot of EVs , especially the newer ones, don’t need a charging infrastructure at all. We have 2 EVs in our family, have been driving EV for 4 years. We used the public infrastructure 3 times last year, no use of it this year.
@Rob Cahill: If FG/FF say that you have to pay more, then you have to pay more. There is no choice. So just shut up and do as you’re told
@Darren Byrne: can I ask where the figures plus calculation methods for those numbers came from ? I find those totals excessive .
We only have one tax over vehicles ( imposto único -IUC ) .
@Isabel Oliveira: more hogwash to push an agenda
The Poles pay through their fuel and it covers the most sensible idea that a polluter pays
Why should an old dear driving 59 miles a week pay the same motor tax as a person driving 350 Miles a week ?
Public transport and EV are not an option for many in rural areas yet it is they who get it up the wazoo
@Quentin Moriarty: Should have a catalytic converter shoved up the cows ass.
@Isabel Oliveira: it was a Portuguese website I gave the link.
@Stephen Devlin: methane comes out its mouth
Vegetarians/vegans at the least argue that the desire for meat is affecting global emissions negatively
@Darren Byrne: ” Only 23000″ are for fkin real? That’s beyond the reach of 70% of the population. It’s a fkin pipedream. You blueshirts haven’t a clue.
@Darren Byrne: oh -only 37,000 – i’ll go and get a couple in the morning so !!! for someone like myself who is disabled 37,000 is equivalent to a total of 3 years money — maybe we could stop eating , wearing clothes , getting our medication ,lose our home – tell you what we could just go away and die – that way we wont need to heat our homes ,cook our food and use the precious carbon -that will leave more for the tds to use in their limos and jaunts around the world .
Perhaps Leo, those that get up at 6am and are at their wits end with charges, taxes, school fees, health insurance etc, etc, etc. Could get some REAL help in upgrading to solar power.
It beyond annoys me to see, state of the art, energy systems installed, for free on those free houses for ‘ethnic minorities’. While we struggle to pay bills and save.
Solar power is completely beyond my means and I’ve been working for 20+ years, never a day on the scratcher!! Never missed a mortgage payment!
@angryDuck: Smaller Cars for your politicans
@Geraldine Fenton: Electric for all politicians. None should be driven around in S class Mercedes. Only allowing them claim mileage on electric vehicles would be a big step and also cut expenses as they’re cheaper to run.
@Darren Byrne:
I never could afford a car even before I retired from employment . , always use public transport , use as little electricity and gas as I possibly can, because its so expensive. . I don’t watch TV because I cant afford to pay for channels . I have the same footwear and clothes for years. So why should I pay for rich politicians who swan around in big cars and fly airplanes around the Country to attend a meeting . Not to mention all the Globe trotting they also do. Have a pain in my Axs listening to how I need to cut down . and save the planet , from the leeches that run this Country more like
@Ava Stapleton: Well said. You are not the only one sick of being bled dry by those leeches and their political parties.
@Ava Stapleton: you’re not the only one Ava. I don’t have TV, eat salads 5 days a week so I don’t have to use electricity to cook and go to bed around 6pm in winter so I don’t have to use the central heating. Don’t have a car either
I honestly don’t think people are putting fuel in their cars for the fun of it. I’m not going to drive any less, as my journey to work isn’t going to shrink overnight. Saying that, my commute gets longer and longer due to all the traffic conjestion.
Give it to you with one hand and take it away with the other!
@Mark Byrne: Exactly, Leo announces that middle earners will have 60 euro more in their wage packets after 5 years if they re elect him,that was Monday. On Tuesday he announces 3000 a year carbon tax, see where this is going…
@Honeybee: 71 dollars a barrel of oil. Government will make a fortune
@Mark Byrne: except they have given us f all in the first place -just take take take !
Omg…what is he saying??? We hv to stop useing these products to save the planet Leo wake up and sort it out..taxing emissions is not the answer
In other words one pays more taxes so that the government buys carbon credits and emmissions remain the same . How is that helping the environment?
Of course, how else will Leo get back the tax lost by increasing the lower band of income tax. Give with one hand, and take with the other.
@Do the Bort man: AND pay for the perennial social welfare recipients
Carbon tax- what a racket. Climate change is just pc nonsense.
@Mike Conway: No it’s not, but thinking you can ax your way out of a problem is something our FFG leaders have pushed at us for too long.. Time to try someone else.
@Mike Conway: are you a climate scientist? The vast majority of them say it’s real. Do you know better?
@James Wallace: maybe thats because if it were to be shown that it is all a con – they would be out of work !!
Get rid of the Blueshirts
@Irish Spider-Man:
Why, are white shirts more eco friendly??
No problem to u varadker but the rest of us workers are struggling to put food on the table after all of ur taxes rammed down our throats, get stuffed
@Patti o furniture: “Home James”-”Yes Mr Varadkar”
@Patti o furniture: Have you not heard there is a recovery going on and we are almost at zero unemployment. Things are looking great now oooops.
Looks like we need a new Taoiseach…..They tax me for own a house.. they tax me for going to work to pay for the hose and now they want to tax me for wanting to heat it…. they can fcuk right off
@Paul Murphy: Get our of European Union join Briton
@Paul Murphy: if you were getting a free house it would come with state of the art solar installed. As a taxpayer, Leo will just press you harder to the grind stone.
@Geraldine Fenton: Bad and all as we are Britain is going to be worse! We can always screw the EU for a bailout down the road again!
@Paul Murphy: Europe will eventually no longer in a position to fine UK for excessive emission so they will be grand
@Paul Murphy: screw the EU for a bailout? You are aware your great grandchildren will probably still be paying for the last bailout we got
@David Daly:, very true. My yet to be conceived grandchildren are already in debt to the EU, all so German banks and pension funds where not hit.
Thank god that energy consuming apple data centre is not going ahead in Athenry!
@angryDuck: Why? We would have made a small fortune off them :-)
@Gavin Conran: not a chance, domestic consumers would end up paying carbon taxes for their electricity usage.
Ask yourself have you seen any benefits to the renewable levies on your electricity bill. Not one, we are just helping the owners of these wind farms amass wealth.
@angryDuck: Fair point
@angryDuck:
Was that the apple data centre that committed to using only renewable energy in their planning application?
@Patrick Nolan: yeah, that was in the PR releases alright. Pure BS tho, considering they were due to consume, into double figures percentages, of the entire nations consumption.
I’ll still have to drive to work as there is no public transport system that will get me from Rathangan in Kildare to Dublin city centre for 6.30 am for WORK. You know? That thing the squeezed middle do to pay for everything and yet receive the least.
@OpenMinded: if FG really give a crap about the workers in this country, they would introduce a 3rd tax band for those that can afford to pay more and tax static wealth along with reducing tax for middle income earners. Tax land hoarding etc etc.
FG are the party of the very rich, alway were always will be.
@angryDuck: the rich pay almost 50% income tax. They need a middle tax bracket for the middle income earners.
Carbon tax but I am made of carbon
@Graham Light: existance tax coming soon
We should do what the French and doing at the moment and get out and march in our thousands. Leo and his friends want us ro pay the fines without finding a solution. What about a 2000 wind turbine farm off the coast of Donegal. Do away with all taxes on electric cars. Real grants to upgrade your house with solar and heat pumps.
This tax has the fear factor for politicians, that is why Leo wants crossparty agreement to stay off public resentment/anger/protest similar to the water charges so when they come knocking from whatever party that supports this extortion, let them know, every BIG TAX hurts.
Why can’t a government for once correctly manage the taxes they collect instead of inventing new taxes to cover up their never ending shortcomings.
@Jim Moran: that would be way too ambitious
I’ve asked this before, where is the transparency for where these carbon taxes are spent. Sure people will be more careful about how much fuel they use, but the tax itself should be used to introduce measure to reduce the over-all carbon footprint too. Also, with all this talk of climate change, increased taxation to tackle it, etc., where is the plan for reforestation????
This is madness – many struggle to heat their homes as it is. Tax on essential activities will not solve climate problems. I drive to work, I’d happily use public transport except it would mean two hours extra a day commuting and is more expensive than driving. Make public transport efficient and inexpensive – this will get cars off the road. Change our electricity generation to renewables – that will also reduce emissions. Our government needs to act – not keep returning to punishing the public. Industry and agriculture are the largest source of carbon emissions – target them if needs be.
“The Citizens’ Assembly was told during its sessions on climate change that Ireland would need to introduce a carbon tax as high as €70 on coal, turf and other products to improve emissions targets.”
Paying more make emissions go down ??
@Rob Cahill: How about a bottle of spring water from the springs of Italy?
(Not brought here by foot courier but enjoyed by green fans none the less)
Why don’t we all just walk and cycle and live and work in the dark and cook over a fire and
What makes verruca think that he will in power in a few years time,
Fuel taxes are going down well in France at the moment,
Government : will slap on some taxes to pretend we are doing something. But won’t provide any meaningful alternatives (esp public transport ) because we can’t be bothered. The we will blame the people for not changing.
Spineless Pathetic bunch politicians
@ed w: sure one should be able to cycle/bus from Lenane to Salthill for work, DAILY ?
@Quentin Moriarty: why not first train into sligo gets in at 11am buses don’t run in the nw to get people to school or work. Have to use the car
@ed w: that’s my point. Can’t be done.
Forget the rural dwellers and the need for a car
You have to laugh, the government increasing carbon taxes when they can expense getting to and from work so never have to worry about rising fuel costs.
so they are putting plans in motion to try and screw us again
Where are families supposed to find this extra money? What with the family home tax and soon to be water charges, not to mention the wealth of stealth taxes that insure we are forever paying for services that don’t exist. All this will insure is people will go cold. God help us all.
Carbon has nothing to do with warming and they know it! this is just robbery! and we are cooling not warming and it has everything to do with the sun. this is just pure BS i want my money back thanks.
Yes because our country of less that 5 million people causes so much pollution. We need to forget the idea of engjoying a higher standard of living to save the world…. Meanwhile in america Trump simply tell the world to f**k off with the targets and continues to cause more pollution in a year than we probably would in a hundred.
@Jordan Osullivan: *enjoying*
For every breath you take soon this government will tax you .
Any word about extra carbon tax onto farmers? Since farming in Ireland is by far the largest contributor to co2 emissions they need to be taxed accordingly
How will more taxes make my house easier to heat? We already use the bare minimum fuel on account of the cost. And if I buy a roll of insulation or new boiler, the government charges me 23% vat. Is a warm home to be the new luxury – only for the rich.
Think what happened with taxing water
@Thomas Sheridan: yep, it’s all about wealth transfer, for this to work efficiently, FG must ensure that you are always just scraping by.
Note: due to insane rents and housing costs, you children, nó matter how well educated, will be rent slaves to those that own all the houses.
Where is all this money supposed to come from… The price of everything is so out of sync with the living wage. Working to feed the system and nothing more. Still feels like austerity regardless of what RTE and FFG say.
Ah yes, the old carbon tax scam that keeps on taking, and the willing simpletons that cheer it on and cheer on fake billing companies.
Clearly the targets were set too high.
Arrr….Get rid of LeoVaradblueshirt and give us all free houses with solar panels and a free electric car, cut all taxes… Yeeasrrrrr… Will definitely sort #Fakenews climate change!
@Dotty Dunleary: meanwhile 50 percent of electrical goods can be repaired yet they are dumped and sent to our friends in Africa who will burn with impunity to remove the copper and precious metals
Farcical beyond belief and the focus is now on EVs
Balloon transportation in 10 years to be proposed
Nice to see my expensive to fit carbon neutral air to water heat pump will cost me a hell of a lot more to run once this hike comes in with increases to electricity.
Tax the producers of the worst levels…. how can you tax citizens when there is little or no alternative….. greedy opportunists this government
A small little Island like Ireland excepting being the blame for climate change is a laugh.
Can people not wake up the fact people like in the green party are making a nice living off this climate change hype.
This country is rife with elected parasite.
So how does a carbon tax in Ireland, banning straws in EU and other BS stop the likes of Indonesia from dumping their rubbish into the ocean, or the likes of India/China from burning ridiculous amounts of coal?
More taxes on more taxes Restaurant owners in Jan must add on 4.5% on food coffee etc more cost.
If this Goverment keeps it up with stealth taxes they are going to fall a long way..
Carbon taxes like the sugar tax does not work but only give the bigger tax at end if year a joke.. also in 2030 or there avours you won’t be able to use fossil fuel in your home and that could mean serious tax on heating your home..
Any word on all the coal being brought down from the north with no carbon tax paid or VAT at all? Increasing carbon tax is bound to happen but it will encourage people more to dabble in this grey area and there doesn’t seem to be a thing done about it here by revenue. Disclaimer : I am in the fuel business.
pity they can’t use all that damn money for tolls collected on roads that have been bought and paid for
@Jessie Ginger:
The previous FF donkey government under Mr Dempsey didn’t copper fasten the whole toll farce and it is not in total governmental control
Is it any wonder the UK is getting out
It’s only the millionaires will be able to live in ireland comfortably after a few more years
How can you possibly tax petrol more. It’s a necessity not a luxury.
Is the money being used to invest in renewable energy?
In the meantime the rest of the world powers couldn’t give 2 f*+k .. and the Irish taxpayer cops it up
The
Arse
As
Usual!
Multiple governments have known this target was on the horizon and dug their heads in the sand. The lack of foresight is shocking added to back tracking on incentives for EV’s in the budget shows that climate change is not on our agenda. Our kids will pay for generations as a consequence
@DC: I’m also involved in promoting a carbon reduction product for the dairy industry and yet some co-op’s shrug their shoulders and say it’s not their problem.
If they were serious, they would fund everyone who wanted to insulate their home (not just lower incomes). You have to spend a fortune to get any grant. I have no choice but to buy fuel to get to work or to heat my home. I would love to buy a more efficient car or use less heating, but I can’t, and the government just keeps taking more and more from me.
Incentivise farmers and consumers away from beef if this isn’t really just about more excuses for taxes on the 99% that is. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jul/21/giving-up-beef-reduce-carbon-footprint-more-than-cars
What a joke.. weres the imitative for all household renewables.. its not rocket science..
Yeah screw the punter as the politicians have their travel bills paid by us fools
Too afraid and cowardly to put it in the budget and now hiding behind the C02 levels and enforcements. Love to see how they distribute the tax levels and who and what gets hit the worse. If they want electric cars then raising electricity prices won’t encourage buyers and they can’t get public transport sorted either Leo your an Ass
All cars can have issues when bought second hand and I can understand where you’re coming from. But if people with money think they can save long term they will start to buy. This will help reduce emissions meaning less of a need to increase the tax. This will eventually lead to more decent second hand evs coming available
@Darren Byrne: darren you need a reality check…. zero competition in the car cartel in ireland…. or haven’t you noticed
@Jessie Ginger: not only that SIMI have the governments war and have made a dogs dinner of it all
They are forcing people out of cars that are NCT emissions compliant in order to line their own pockets
We now see a diesel dump from the UK coming to the Paddy shores and it will get worse thanks to the egg heads who favoured a move from diesel to petrol
Electric cars we never take off until a people carrier is available that can get you to and from where you want to go without planking it that it will die
People like me can’t afford to waste electricity or diesel, this is just a tax to screw the poor
Would it not be more socially acceptable for mega profit companies to maybe cough up an extra percent or two.
As a truck driver and midwife partner with two young children and small mortgage, and each drive 12 year old cars, need these as live in country, these carbon taxes are so financially crippling and demoralizing.
So that’s the solution to reduce emissions? Increase taxes? Or maybe they need to increase the tax to be able to pay off the fine they will receive for not meeting their targets.
have your say