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THE GOVERNMENT IS set to establish a special Oireachtas committee to examine and cost political parties’ pre-budget proposals with a view to having it in place before the next election, TheJournal.ie understands.
The establishment of such a committee would allow for pre-budget submissions and other economic proposals from political parties and independent TDs and Senators to be costed, as well as providing an analysis of their impact on the wider economy.
There have been widespread calls for the establishment of such a body in order to provide certainty around the proposals being put forward by opposition parties and TDs.
Labour and Fine Gael frequently claim that proposals from opposition parties, particularly Sinn Féin, are not properly costed and are tantamount to ‘fantasy economics’.
Currently, the Department of Finance costs individual budget measures for opposition parties, but there is no facility for analysing the cumulative effect of budget measures and how they would impact on the economy.
Plans for the development of such a committee are at an early stage. It’s understood that the committee would be made up of elected representatives as well experts from various sectors of the economy.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny mooted the establishment of such a committee in the Dáil this week, saying a proposal made to him by Finance Minister Michael Noonan should be “considered very carefully”.
He said a “specific budgetary committee” would allow TDs and Senators to have their proposals “costed in a way that would allow for better debate, more focused debate on the challenges that lie up ahead for Ireland”.
“In other words to reform the process by which we prepare for the future, by which we prepare for the budget. So that members would have opportunity to be better prepared and be able to better participate,” he said last Tuesday.
One government source suggested that it could work in the way the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) in the United States operates. The CBO is a widely-respected federal agency that provides budget and economic information to the US Congress.
Fine Gael TD Eoghan Murphy (above) has consistently called for such a committee to be set up, saying the current arrangements are “farcical” and unchanged since the economic crash seven years ago.
“Any move to give greater scrutiny to proposals before they are adopted, rather than after, is to be welcomed. TDs and opposition parties need to be able to have their own proposals costed, independent of government.
“Too often TDs and opposition parties stand up and say ‘we should do X or we must do Y’ without having to worry about the cost of such proposals or how the overall budget situation would be impacted.”
The Dublin South-East deputy said a budgetary oversight office would make for “far more responsible debate”.
Sinn Féin has also consistently called for the establishment of such a body. In an interview with TheJournal.ie last year, finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty said that such a body would be necessary in the lead up the general election.
“If we had an independent unit that would do that on behalf of political parties and independents then I believe that would be of huge benefit to the public debate and discourse that we’re having,” he said.
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Bring it on… Sick of listening to opposition parties for the last 20 years saying once we get in you will pay less…. And some muppets believed him.
Political parties will be massaging the figures to best affect like comparing Tesco with Aldi and Lidl……
I shall be voting number 1 Independent and No 2 Sinn Fein .
And I don’t care about Sinn Fein’s reputation because after Bertie and Brian and Enda I know who the other shower serve – they have proven themselves to be Mario’s boys and Mario is a snake in my opinion !
And the great thing is even if I am wrong – I have been wrong before , so hey – so what , at least I won’t have to be listening to that ladhb Enda !
As the quietest taoiseach in history, listening to enda is like listening to a mild rain falling on a grassy field.
Johngahan, I think your spellcheck changed weakest to quietest. I’m only happy to point out your mistake ;)
Johngahan – I mildly agree with you regarding the quiet Taoiseach .
However , isn’t the reason for this is that his handlers forbid him to be interviewed on Prime Time / Vincent Browne , or to involve himself in any live debate whatsoever – Why ? Because the poor unfortunate is incapable of debating and clearly comes across for what he is – totally incapable as An Taoiseach ???
He’s the elected Taoiseach. He doesn’t need to be a PR guy, pandering to the ingrates, if he doesn’t want to be.
Ingrates are you call them are his employers John .It is rude of the servants to insult their master – they might get sacked !
Shinners …
your simple and highly political answer to any criticism is the following -
“Well Enda and his friends in the E.C.B. have gotten their figures wrong by a Trillion Euro and you criticise us ?”
Time enough for interviews when an election is called, let them get on with the jobs that they are paid to do.
A budgetary committee is not needed to tell us all Sinn Féin will burn the bondholders and deliver the 32 county socialist utopia we all deserve.
Get ready for a FF,FG government all the way with a shower of independent and SF in opposition with a weak Green party, that’s how I see it. The people of this country are a shower of conformers and don’t have the balls to go any other way. Yea that’s how we will punish them by making them stronger…..as a nation there is more fight in the foreigner. Dislike this if your a conforming lazy fool and so far took part in nothing.
@ Tom unfortunately I think you may be right FF/FG may go into Government just to keep SF out as not enough people will vote SF because of the fear of the unknown and the recent SF bashing in press. Don’t personally think SF wants to turn Ireland into a Marxist country just try to build a fairer society for all its citizens. And as for the SF haters out there they should remember almost all political parties on this island can trace their genesis from SF.
It would be nice if he could speak without putting his foot in his mouth though.
As long as the current bunch of tools have no say on who is on it.
Gerry Adams as good as admitted he can’t add… I don’t know why we need to waste resources establishing a ‘special committee’ to confirm just that.
FG & Lab’ numbers didn’t add up and still don’t, so what’s the point in bringing it up. FF don’t seem to have any numbers and are hiding, they were useless in power and now useless in opposition. Independents have similar numbers to SF, so whatever. We need FG n lab out!
SF the party that tells you what you want to hear! Everything will be free! Their failed Marxist “policies” are the similar as the ones that forced misery, hardship,destitute and suffering to the people of Central America – beware! Most of the people who support them are oblivious to this.
More scare mongering from you PD. There’s a smell of desperation off ya!!
Tr909 same daily blind drivel from the SF troll
“Misery, hardship, destitute and suffering,” have you been out of the country recently, they are just some of the realities faced here as a result of FF\FG\Lab policies.
And the current and past parties have had such glittering cv’s……come on…open your eyes…how much money has been wasted, hardship endured and promises not delievered on at the hands of these incompotent selfers. The instantaneous putting down of an untried party is getting painful at this stage.
Stick with the tried and trusted parties of failure so PD? Nah. I’ll give Sinn Féin the chance that they deserve having turned themselves from a rag taggle bunch to a party for 21st century Ireland. You my friend can continue to burry your head in the sand and spout nonsense that most people can see right through.
Me Phil / you obviously know nothing about the suffering & destitute in South America, no matter how hard things got here it was like sheer luxury compared to what they are enduring- what an ignorant comment
PD
Your comparing failed policies in a region with a populace of hundreds of millions to an island with a population less than half that of some South American cities in an attempt to ridicule SF’ proposed budgetary costs. That’s a lame argument and has absolutely no significance in regards to Ireland’s future financial situation.
Exactly Scottie.As TR909 stated in an earlier post there is a smell of desperation off the blueshirts.They can see the people of Ireland have finally woke up and the gravy train is running out of juice.
Shame on anybody that votes for FF/FG or Lab for what they have done to this country.
In fairness these parties got elected with lies and broken promises so conned a lot of votes but to keep giving them chance after chance when they prove themselves liars year after year is crazy.
Mass non payment of water bills too folks,enough is enough.Rant over.
Have a good day.You too blueshirts……
Horse
Kenny breached the terms of the contract he made with the nation when he failed to crack down hard on everyone involved in the McNulty affair.
Mr Phil- so it depends on the size of the population & nothing to do with policies??? What an utterly stupid comment to make, laughable. I’m not surprised you support SF!
Horse, it seems mr protect democracy is bringing up the rear in his blueshirt blinkers, the Red Rum of the donkey derby ;)
Protect Democracy. I seem to remember two particular parties last time out promising to end corruption, burn bondholders, give two fingers to Berlin and the IMF, end austerity, among a raft of other feel good measures.
I’m not a SF supporter but I get a sense of pot and kettle here.
PD
S.American policies are not the issue here, the only comparison that needs to be made are the proposals made by Irish politicians and parties, or do you propose we hold the world cup and Olympics as well.
TR909 the blueshirt’s wear the blinkers alright and see what they want to see.
That’s what has the country in the state it is.I have said before on The Journal,they are like cult members that don’t see the harm or damage that their leaders have done and continue to do…..
Me Phil – what’s the name of the medication your on?
PD
I’m on a daily dose of the journal comment section, its good for attention deficit disorder, if you stay on topic it can work for you too.
All your red thumbs PD say a lot. Pointless and without foundation comments.
Of course SF’s figures don’t add up. They agree with the 3% deficit target yet they can’t say where the total adjustment required to met that target will come from. The Government has to find 3 billion in adjustments in each budget, yet all SF are doing in their alternative budgets is coming up with the exact same 3 billon each year. They have proposed a wealth tax 6 times. SF can’t say where the total adjustment of 20 billion required to met the target would come from. The fact is they would have to cut many of the services that the Government have cut to their loud protests.
In the next GE people will have to decide whether they want a Society where everyone is treated equally, where everyone is treated with dignity and humanely. Or an Economy where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer If they want the former then vote Sinn Fein, Independents and smaller parties if they want the later then vote FG/Labour & FF.
The Establishment Parties would have us believe that the next GE will be about the economy but IMHO it will be about the hearts and souls of the people and the kind of society and country we want!
Yup, Sinn Fein sure have a great track record with the old dignity and humanity.
Yvonne – if you want something in life you have to work hard for it, sitting around and expecting others to pay is not the way to do it
Yup Jim, FF and FG had similar track records after partition if my memory serves me correctly.
Like Pierce Doherty saying that their budget plans have been ‘costed’ doesn’t suggest that they know what they are talking abou. Not a very inspiring statement from people who some day want to take over government……
I worked my arse off for 46 years. No one ever gave me anything for free. I NEVER went on the dole the only thing I’ve gotten off the State is my pension. I paid all my taxes and Stamps And I didn’t mind that my taxes were going to help provide “free” second and third level education so as to give others the chances in life that I didn’t have. So please don’t give others lectures on how you think they should live there lives
Jim -
Dignity and Humanity ..
How do Tom Barry (lapgate) and Frankie Feighan (pension baaytin’) score on the dignity score.
Is there any self-respecting woman left in Ireland that will vote fro Fine Gael after the Tom Barry thing ?
Failure to hand out any sanction sends a message …….that the men in Fine Gael Parliamentary Party are not Gentlemen of Character .
Yvonne – your a hero! You actually worked , your so special!
PD, it’s you are or you’re. Enda would be do disappointed if he saw such errors. Let’s hope he doesn’t personally check his trolls work.
PD You’re an ignorant idiot Hope my and other peoples taxes didn’t go towards your education because if they did they were wasted
Yvonne I thing he is still in primary school.Has a bit to go yet for big boy school but sadly our taxes will go to further educate him.
Nearly time for his lunchtime nap…….
Yvonne, I think you’re safe in assuming your taxes didn’t go toward his education in social skills anyway.
The problem with those who come on to these fora to defend Kenny & Co. is they are bereft of cogent argument and so resort to abuse to try and score points.
It’s a trait often seen in their political masters too.
@ Yvonne who could disagree with what you say and yet you get red thumps and comments from lackies who only comment on stories related to the Government. It’s always Enda is great , sure look at the economy the recession is over, they are deluded fools who dont see the writing on the wall. Bye bye FG/LB
Alternative Headline: Sinn Fein call for budget transparency wins support eventually. I would say McGrath and FF are not too keen somehow
Political parties calling for something they don’t want or indeed fear is the oldest trick in the book. Optics..!!! Like do you really believe that SF really want TD’s pay and expenses cut? Any independent analysis of budget proposals will not end well for SF.
SF has supported this wholeheartedly, ever since it became a confirmed government plan.
Politicking at its finest. All this is is a maneuver by FG to try and make sure they get back to the seat again in the next election by trying to disallow the same economic fantasy that conned people into voting for them the last time. There is an obvious concern in that camp over the rising popularity of other parties and this is merely an effort to curb some of the more populist policies. Jaysus, aren’t they the right cute hoors.
It would be feckin tragedy if we lost those populist policies.
Sinn Fein will raise taxes on the minted (i.e. those earning more than 32k)
Shinner bot does an Anglo and pulls figures from his a*se!!!
Bowe – Shinnerbot is a FG Troll .
SF is tasked with the massive challenge of cleaning up after previous governments financial mismanagement and irregularities, and the question asked is “do SF’ numbers add up” SF aren’t to blame for the current predicaments, it was FF policies that led us to financial ruin, policies that were continued under FG\Lab tenure. So the real question is do FF\FG\Lab numbers add up?
To be fair to FG/Lab, the economy was well in tatters by 2001.There wasn’t much ANY govt could do by then.
Still isn’t, truth be told.
2011 even
Jim, when FG\Lab were in opposition, they didn’t oppose much did they.
I’m thinking most of the comments on here are from people insulated from FF’s and FG Labours Austerity path to nowhere. Some people like things the way they are but I’ll tell ye these numbers that do add up . A small fraction of the population are getting richer whilst everyone else gets poorer and with property water carbon broadcasting charge and legacy fraudulent banking debt which the interest hitting a record high this year things aren’t looking too good for the majority of people. So the numbers would indicate people will be pretty pissed off to say the least come election time whenever that happens. Let me also say the experts the numbers men wholeheartedly supported by establishment parties and their loyal supporters crashed the global economy the Irish economy and then preceded to blame you me the children the unborn children anyone they could but themselves don’t talk about numbers when ye obviously support gangsters That make them work for them not us. The odds are stacked against you as the famous visionary movie says. I find it insulting that smaller parties are over scrutinized when the Taoiseach thinks the minimum wage is 36 g and the economic crisis happened because Irish people went mad yere jokers and a joke to most people clued in to what happened . Like everything else under establishment rule their always the last to know so enjoy the last years of paddywhackery tipp the hat humiliation at the hands of foreign and domestic policy because people want their country back they want to be treated as citizens not cattle. Government economists coming on getting it wrong all the time spinning their plop is all we got and its all we’l get from this committee sure Noonan has them all in his pocket where’s Morgan Kelly not as good as Jim Power no. Groundhog day the Irish way. Same old heads telling us where stupid and austerity is good for us. Sellouts and cheap sellouts at that.
Well said.
B Egan = yawn
Protect Democracy = Enda’s biatch.
They probably don’t…
Not when you can buy bumper stickers in their shops which state 26 + 6 = 1
Sounds like they intend to use taxpayers money for a point scoring exercise………..
Hugh – The FG Trolls are drawn very quickly towards the bias in the headline alone here !
No mention , I note , that there are also alternative Budgets submitted , by FF and the many on The Independent Benches ?
Even though , the facts being that these Budget proposals , have also been fully checked and costed by The Department of Finance – no mention of this in the article ?
I have a concern recently , that the imbalanced mentality of An Ceann Comhairle , seems to be spilling too , to the Editorial attitude in Journal.ie !
Is this an imposed change on The Journalists by the Owners of The Journal.ie ?
Mind you , it doesn’t seem to apply to all your writers though .
It’s a shame , if this is the case , that there has been a marked change in policy ?
An Ciarrai, all political parties’ budget proposals are based on numbers costed by the Department of Finance. Not just Sinn Fein’s budget proposals.
MurphEy – The Headline and article here implies the absolute opposite to what you state ( which isn’t correct anyhow ) .
So what is your point ?
Here the thing that most gets my goat about Sinn Fein’s proposals are the fact they believe that the behaviour of the tax base is a constant and will stay a constant after imposing their wealth taxes etc.
By punishing people’s “wealth” which is already taxed at source, they will create less of an incentive to continue to create capital. This would then cause a multiplier effect which would then erode this tax base as people stop creating resources in the state or just leave the state to create resources elsewhere.
You can say that everything is coated at a certain point in time, but you can’t cost the future consequences of irrational taxes.
Will this be the first time that Sinn Fein submit their entire budget at once for integrated costing, rather than their frankenstein budgets of the past where they cost individual ideas in isolation and then call the entire budget costed even if the separate ideas were incompatible?
Should be an enlightening journey for them to put together a full budget for analysis.
Well said conor.
Thwy couldn’t put together a box of lego without someone showing them beforehand…..
An Ciarraioch, seeing that you asked, my point is this:
I am tired of being told by Pearse Doherty, in that patronising way he has, that Sinn Fein’s budget proposals are costed by the DoF. So, if the top rate of Income Tax is increased by, say, 1%, that will result in extra tax of X millions, and that number comes from the DoF. Fair enough.
All political parties use numbers that come from a variety of sources such as DoF, ESRI, etc. To listen to PD, you’d think SF are the only political party that use figures from reliable sources, and all other political parties use numbers plucked out of thin air.
The problem is, when you add up the various elements of the SF budget proposals, they just don’t add up, In my opinion, but you probably don’t agree with me, and that’s fine.
Now, do you see the point?
76% of the electorate do not want to see SF in Government.
Have a good weekend.
Maith thú with the victim card there Comrade Ciarraíoch. We’re the one victims people should not blame.
Prov.Shinnerbot – The pretend SF – Who is in reality a FG TROLL
Of course the numbers add up!
One bomb + one fuse + one terrorist = mass civilian casualties.
SF are to economics what a piebald nag is to the Cheltenham gold cup
I recently bought a piebald nag.. Cheltenham here I come.
Put a few Ulsterbank Twenties on it
Sinn Fein’s magic money tree will make our country great again. Pearse Doherty was nearly a Civil Engineer if he hadn’t dropped out of the course so he should know all about finance
So a civil engineer or nearly one is worse then the 3 teachers and an x union official currently running the country?
At least they finished college, will Pearse just give up when it gets too hard
The money tree nonsense doesn’t wash anymore when we have a situation were millions are pumped into super quangos, over inflated political salaries and bonus culture, billions taken out of the economy and sent abroad by criminal drug gangs as well as billions to pay off speculators gambling debts, not to mention how our resources (fish, gas, forests, educated youth) were signed away for free.
Pearse always calls Gerry when he has a difficult maths problem in his budget. Gerry’s answer is always 100.
Jimmy – Is that in the same way could have graced a National School , as a Teacher , with his natural talent for “teaching” us ?
Please stop talking absolute and utter biased nonsense ?
Enda – I’m referring to
Excuse exclusion of our Taoiseach’s name !!!!
Ciarraioch, National School teachers taught you everything you know, don’t belittle your own education..
Johngahan – You are obviously not reading the thread – Please involve yourself in the reading of the discussion before jumping in & by stating that I’ve said or stated something which I clearly have not – it’s called ‘good manners’ and common sense !
We comrades-in-arms learned everything we need to know through the Struggle.
Judging by the competency of most of our school goers in the basic “three Rs”, it’s not something to brag about.
Ff . Fg. Labour have had their time. They have proven they don’t care about the electorate. Only self interest. They have had their chance. I don’t know what sf or the independents will be like but I have seen what ff.fg.labour are like and will never vote for them again. Yeah government defenders will say but sf will do this and that. But what have fg and labour done.
Sure we will soon see if Fine Gael actually sets up this new committee before the next election or not-
If this is just more Fine Gael talk it will Cost them- no one else-
Adams was never good at figures.
He once said on Prime Time, he doesn’t know how many have “disappeared” in Northern Ireland
Zzzzzzzzzz
Past your bedtime?
Nope. I’m still “up” entertaining your missus “big” Willy ;)
Jayus lads nobody has mentioned Irish Water, the Cops or Roy Keane!!! What’s happening to this site???
Pat kenny is moving to newstalk
Nice Avatar but your already a slave and it isn’t Socialism that got you there.
The timing of a lie does not change the fact that it is a lie….Pre budget figures are always lies..nothing will change.
What does it matter anyway? The budget deficit is little more than an accounting residual determined by the overall health of the economy. Obviously, if deficits persist and the cost of borrowing rises, there will be an unsustainable debt burden that is damaging to the economy. However, parties in Ireland for the most part don’t take advantage of fiscal policy to change the economy, but rather employ either austerity to please Brussels or giveaway budgets to please naïve voters.
The government will probably send them to a Steiner National School first ha ha…
We would not have this fiasco with IW. if Co.Councils had done the job right. During the boom councils spent money as if it fell of the trees, and the usual pockets got deeper and deeper but they filled them. Hardly a cent was spent in the last 20/30 years on leakage and renewing pipelines. If they CoCo. had done the jobs right instead of spending millions on waste land, we would not have a problem today. SF know this. The pipes will be fixed. Problem solved. 4 million was given last year from Kilkenny Co 7 million from Carlow Co to I.W., That is some haul if you count how many Co Co are in the country.
Great Idea. Sack the seanad and use their wages to pay this new body.
have your say